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Star Wars Galaxies: Our Look At The Combat Upgrade
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One of MMORPG.com's newest writers - Clint Nielson (Monthigos) recently put together a thourough look at the new "combat upgrade" that was released into the Star Wars Galaxies universe. As many of you may know, this update was highly controversial and unfavored by a large number of SWG players. Clint attempts to uncover why this is:
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"I can't comment, except to say that will be addressed in the Combat Upgrade."
First of all, the basis of this report is formulated from many hours on the test servers; however, I felt it wouldnt be fair to give a review of the Combat Upgrade until it was released on the live servers and I had tested it out with my own characters. All opinions on game play are formulated from experiences AFTER the upgrade went live, and not before. |
;)
To read the complete editorial, click here.
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
The dead know only one thing: it is better to be alive.
Comments
How much did SOE pay you for this article? Personally I think you are way off, and you don't even touch on the major problems with this Upgrade.
I agree its not ALL bad, but the bad outweighs the good. Its sort of like leasing a ferrari and halfway through they change the engine on you to a ford tempo. You would be pissed too.
This is a very interesting and helpful article for a player who hasn't been on in a while. However, probably the bigest reason I left was becuase as a reble I was fighting creaters and simple NPC imp camps. I had hoped that the combat upgrade would include a better structure for ingaging in the great struggle betwen the sides of the force. I was shocked that upon becoming a rebel I wasn't given a mission that required joining a small team to atack a imp base protected by real players (whos mission it was to protect). And escilating to larger and larger battles from there (or deeper and sneeker spy missions).
Has there been no improvement in the battle system for the actuall war? Or is this only a system by which to get tonights dinner supplies more interesting?
Thanks,
fire
For the last few weeks, all the coverage has focused exclusively on what people dislike about the CU. There are obviously vast problems, most of which are noted in the article. That said, I do not see how giving an opportunity to someone who actually enjoyed the change means we are not being fair. People still play SWG. There are many who do enjoy the CU. Saying the opinion is invalid because you disagree is just being close-minded. At least now, both camps have had a say.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Have since left SWG and moved on so don't take this as a whine or a comment made out of anger. The author of this post failed to cover the true reason for the CU anger. Quite simply, SOE did not listen to playerbase. For some it was the new route of the CU, others it was the bugs that were reported, others it was the lack of beta testing and for others still - it was the suggestions that were ignored.
This bulldozer action may have been needed but from a customer relations point of view - it was not even remotely handled right. Thought I would mention this as it is the real reason that many left. SOE shouldnt have to cater to everyone's need but their approach was quite poor. Time and feedback were arguably the most used words in the beta forums and beyond.
As for the CU, didn't like the change myself and so I left. However, I have friends who love it and know people who came back just for it. Its a split decision from my perspective. Time moves on, other games come and new players arrive at the old games. Time to let this die and hope that SOE will make an "effort" to work on their customer service and feedback in the future. Will help them keep their new crop.
The writer of this "tentitive" semi-journalistic piece failed to cover several things with the combat upgrade. One would concern the crafting professions and the huge limitations and "nerfs" placed on them because of fundamental changes to how items are crafted and how many items no longer work or are ingame rendering a few crafting professions practically "obsolete". And lets also highlight how "pure" and "true" crafters are now "bantha fodder" to npc's and creatures whenever they decide to leave a building.
I would also criticize how "lightly" this "prospective journalist" hit on the game breaking bugs that are still prevalent in the game a week after the "combat upgrade" and how nearly all of them were "known" bugs on the test servers before it was pushed live. But, being a realist, I "realized" how optimisticly slanted this article is and wonder what connections (if any can be found) this "journalist" has with SOE or Lucas Arts. But then perhaps it was his "editor" telling him to "make it positive" if he wanted the article published. Many people would call that line of thinking "out of line" and unwarranted, but then we need to question everything so we are not taken for fools.
I will remark on how good his "coverage" was of his "bulldozer" idea. The CU was/is needed because of the so called "bloating" SWG has been having for 2 years. But many of the things that were promised by the developers before the CU did go live were not given or were completely ignored. How the CU was implimented was wrong, shoddy, lacked any kind of imagination.
Monthigos, thanks for a well-written and well-thought out review. I played SWG on the Ahazi server for 13 months, up until a week after the "Combat Upgrade", and cancelled my account a couple of days after it went live, so here's my feedback.
You're right about the main motive of the CU being to return player interest to grouping. However, I think you went easy on the CU where soloing is concerned - if your experience was anything like mine and generally every other player amongst the scores of friends and strangers I talked to about it, you found that trying to simply play the game, even with adjustments for the new specials and timers, new armor and buff changes, you simply ended up dying a lot more often, even when fighting groups of critters smaller and weaker than you. In short, the game didn't port over from SWG to the CU very well at all. Basic player functionality was lost. You could only survive in a group, and then, only carefully and again, not in the same places, fighting the same things, and with the same professions. It was like being turned from 3 Dimensional into a 2 Dimensional entity.
One of the main complaints I recognized about SWG before the CU was the overabundance of Teras Kasi Masters, TKMs. It was essentially part of most uber player templates. Aother of the CU's ideas was to make any one particular profession not so weighty in a template combination. However, immediately post-CU, one started to see TKM replaced with tons of Bounty Hunters, in that the BH profession had good defense all of a sudden and most of all, that added level of gameplay in hunting Jedi.
Which brings me to my main point. I had just successfully become a Jedi Padawan about a month before the CU hit live. I had earned nothing uber impressive, but I had settled into the grind and was on my way to where I wanted to be, spending usually 4 to 12 hours a day just trying to add another notch of progress to the xp-meter. Well not anymore, cuz the game, she's broke. I had a bunch of friends who hit the CU-Test Center more often than our live server, and as a whole they detested it. Now, they've come around to it enough, mostly through a dedication to the Star Wars genre and the ethic that they'd adapt to anything to stay in it. I tried to keep a positive outlook and not adopt a prejudice for the CU when it hit live, but the moment it did, my game stopped.
You just can't play an average Jedi there anymore, certainly not one who's in progress towards a template and not particularly close to it (which takes eons). What does this do, block off the Jedi threshhold and profession to all those recently arrived, leaving only veteran Jedi Knights and such to remain? The forced grouping mixes with the SWG Jedi concept about as well as oil and water. I gave it an earnest try - I played solo, and either couldn't gain a single XP, or couldn't survive 2 minutes, depending on what I fought (critters with much lower CLs killed me outright); I grouped, said the heck with visibility, I've got to get xp somehow and grouping can be fun - until two bounty hunters came along and smoked me effortlessly, setting me back hours at a time, erasing all my progress thus far that day. I refuse to serve as content for another player class. I refuse to test and endure the new SWG for SOE while I pay for it. I refuse to beat my head senseless against a brick wall and listen to others, the devs and those who enjoy the CU and those Jedi with advanced skills already earned, tell us how you can sort of see through that brick, and eventually it'll get better. I'm not waiting anymore. We had something functional, flawed to be certain, but at its base it was fun and people kept coming in day after day. It just isn't that way anymore.
What I'd really like to know is, and I admit to a self-serving bit of righteousness here, what has happened to the SWG playerbase - what are the numbers? And that we can't know until another month or two at least. You probably know my estimate of SWG's chances, but that's unimportant. I'm just sitting at home with an empty computer, feeling robbed and tossed on the trash heap. I'll never purchase or play another SOE game, myself. So can MMORPG.COM find out and publicize, how much has SWG's playerbase turned over, rejoined, or departed? Thanks,
Tark
I support that right to a contrary opinion. Bereting somebody for finding a positive in something you consider negative is not a crime.
However.
I cancelled SWG for the last time yesterday. I used to have 3 accounts (one my GF's in fact) and reduced it to the last one, in the hope of Sony finally delivering the goods.
The CU for me obviously wasnt it.
Yes they addressed some of the ridiculous issues, concerning lack of groups and the "Deity" class soloers. However the methods used are akin to nukeing a city to kill the rats.
But aside from that and the pros and cons that are discussed above, what really really did it for me is that these guys are committing what I consider fraud. Seriously. Hidden behind that, Eula the arrogance of the mmorpg industry is astounding and Sony are right up there.
The game simply does NOT WORK. BUG BUG BUG BUG.... and this is a release, what? Two years in the making?
Sony does not deserve the money that the Star Wars and MMORPG fans have donated, not a penny of it. They should be ashamed of their work. If I produced second rate goods like this in my line of work I would not be able to sleep at night. Further to that I would have my ass torn in litigation.
The only further shame, would be on us the consumer to keep throwing away our cash on these incompetants. The Star Wars franchise is in no danger of fading away so you dont have to think that by cancelling your account that the game will go. This is NOT Earth and Beyond. See how fast George Lucas kicks ass when his 'baby' becomes a low subscribed joke.
Do the future of SWG a favour. Cancel now. Play something else for a while and watch em sweat.
If SOE had implemented the system from they 1st day this would NOT have been an issue whatsoever.But what they did was make a game that for 2 years or so a soloist could play and have fun with.Then they completly changed the game.
Now we have FORCED grouping ala EQ.
The issue in my eyes is not the change but they way it was FORCED upon players.A take it or leave it attitude meant a lot of players chose to leave it.(me included)
SOE took some lessons from Darth Vader himself and rule that game with an iron fist.
Beta testers SCREAMED to have more time to develop the game.The countless forum deletions.Needing a subscription at the start to look at the forums.Banning players during the credit duplication debacle.
Im not bitter im having fun playing WoW something ive not felt in a looong time since leaving SWG.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Just play the damn game:)
Whilst I agree with the premise behind this post, it should be noted that the number one reason behind most people leaving is the skewing of the game to be more of a pure combat based MMO, rather than a "whole of experience" MMO.
As an ex-player who played for the crafting experience, the CU basically put paid to my gaming experience - ie, that of a crafter. In the Pre-CU world, I wasn't limited in what I could experience in the game. With proper usage of skill points I could craft in my chosen professions, I could sell the items that I made through the vendors I controlled and whenever I got bored of that, I could hunt in PvE with the limited combat skills available to me (I was never a big PvP'er). Post-CU I found that all I could really do was craft, with whatever PvE I could manage being restricted to the very low end (unless I was grouped which playing outside of the US tz is next to near impossible).
This is mitigated to a large degree if you (a) have a second account, or (b) have been able to unlock your "free" second character through the Jedi system. If you are running a single account, you have a choice, craft or combat - and that's it. This is by design and for me, it's this design that drove me away from a game I spent 2 years enjoying.
What killed it for me though was the fact that the new level based system severely hamstrung my ability to enjoy anything outside of my house or player city (or NPC city). Travelling on most planets involved hoping a shuttle to a NPC city, running to the nearest cloning centre and insuring my gear and cloning myself - and then for the next couple of hours revisiting that cloning centre as everything I came across was instant death to me.
Now this in itself wouldn't be a bad thing if I could in some way mitigate the not dying bit. But with server side lag, aggro lairs spawning as you ride through the wilderness, travel warping and one hit kills from creatures you never even see, the experience gets rather tiring very quickly. Often its a case of hop on bike, ride 500m, die, warp back to an area you passed 30 seconds ago to find that a creature 5 levels higher than you had spawned and the server had just gotten up to date, run the calcs and found that you had ridden over it, compared your level with it and found that it is more powerful and thus you are now dead. For a crafter its a case of rinse and repeat with no let up. Sure you can group before you travel but if the other party members are on another planet, you are back to Level 1 noobdom.
The one comment that really brought it to a head though was the callous refrain from the Devs when presented with this problem "use a PSG or take a combat friend". Yeah right! PSGs are not useful against creatures (they do kinetic damage and not energy damage), and have you ever tried convince someone else to ride shotgun with you for a couple of hours, let alone every time you need to travel?
If you are into combat and PvP, I can see why you would enjoy the CU and the changes that have happened to the game, if you are not into combat and PvP, then basically this game is no longer for you.
It's as simple as that and the main reason why many players no longer play this game.
To me it was a fun game, I never was into soloing NS Elders, Krayt Dragons and Tusken Observers. But I knew that I could travel most places unbuffed because I could wear armour and could wield a weapon for long enough to allow me to pull my bike and ride away. Now, its "oh look, there is a creature 2 levels above me....oh look, the inside of the cloning station".
No ifs, not buts and no way around it unless I have my own personal body guard.
Sorry but to this veteran ex-player, SWG lost all of its fun and entertainment at that point. It may of changed for the better for some, but for those that didnt like the changes, they did what I have done and walked. No amount of sales, positive spins on the changes and shiny bits of content are going to bring these people back.
They enjoyed playing Game A, and now Game A is dead and never coming back. And as that's the case, dont expect those who enjoyed Game A to come back either.
...And another thing. A lot of reviewers and players alike have commented that SWG-CU is a lot like EQ2 or other 'traditiona' MMORPGs, and even more like console games. I think, and what I'd like to see MMORPG.COM's take on, that SOE are taking SWG closer to the CENTER or MAINSTREAM of gaming popularity. It's straight Clinton Politics - occupy the center and you'll do the best in terms of numbers, votes, subscribers, what have you.
So instead of having a variety of unique games, we've got clone after clone of similar games using the lowest common denominator. I was addicted so thoroughly to SWG before the CU, it was like a narcotic. I quit fairly easily, in a very short period of time, essentially cold turkey, but for the friendships I had with a lot of people who I'll miss a lot now, because I associate them with the SWG which is now gone.
My point is, SOE took their product from a state in which it was alluring and addictive and enjoyable to many, including many adults - I would venture to say more adults over the age of 21 played SWG than most other MMMOGs, and maybe more played than did younger players - and made it into something more commecially viable in today's economy which is targetted at teens. Wrong or Right? I'd be interested in everyone's feedback.
As far as Mothingos' journalism, he did a fine job of reporting on the product and its changes without getting emotionally involved. Too many of my fellow former SWG players demand an emotionally shrill tirade against the CU, just I think to match their own and validate their own feelings. As for me, the only thing that'll validate my distaste for the CU and SOE since pushing it live will be the changed demographics of the SWG playerbase from now on. Interesting to see how it'll turn out - more players overall, less... and how will we compare what SWG's lifetime as a supported, populated game would have been before the CU, compared to what it will be now after the CU.
Tark
Just a few notes about this article:
1) I was against the CU in beta. You will find plenty of things in the article that I am not too thrilled about. I also wanted to cover the pros of the CU since obviously no one else did. New gamers and returning SWG players might not have the same opinion about the game that most veterans do. I had to think about them. My general experience is that a lot of gripes veteran players have with the CU are only appreciated by veteran players. A new player would not know about simplifications, nerfs and other aspects that veterans find distasteful simply because they do not know any different. I had to present whether the game, in its current form, would be fun to someone who quit SWG out of disgust or had never played. Disagree with my stand point, if you will.
2) I cannot deny that I have a lot of fun grouping in SWG now, and still do. I would recommend the grouping experience in SWG to anyone.
3) The article was much longer but was cut for readability. Obviously, like Lepidus said, much has already been covered. I realize also I couldn't please many vocal people as many are against the CU for the above mentioned reasons.
4) It has been my experience that the way SOE deals with the public and release patches has been the same since the day SWG launched. If you didn't find it acceptable then chances are you won't find it acceptable now. Nothing has changed in my opinion, only people's patience and tolerance.
5) I am still able to solo fine with acceptable experience. My only gripe has been down time. I am a Master Bounty Hunter and Master Squad Leader, and one of my profession is geared entirely towards grouping and I am still able to solo.
Thank you to everyone who read this article and I apologize to those who felt it wasn't up to par.
- m o n t h i g o s -
My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of MMORPG.com
Well, I would have to say this is one of the most honest and brutal editorials I have seen about the CU. I was an original beta tester of the game, and I am continuing to play this game. I don't like everything about the CU. But this article actually would refelct the exact review I would write about it. I have to be brutally honest. I am having fun with the CU. Yes it has been dumbed down, yes, I can't solo. No I can't have my uber weapons and armor. However, I was getting bored of SWG, bored of the uber leet players. Bored of how only the super rich could take advantage and ownng these uber items. This has actually sparked a whole new interest for me, and a new challenge to be the best. Which means, instead of my uber items, I have to have skills, and thats ok. I will continue to play until something better comes along. But, as a star wars junkie, it will be an arduous task to find one.
Lanry Skyrunner
QFE
Interesting response. Question is how do you the reviewer feel about their customer relations? As a beta tester - how did you feel when they released it 2 weeks early knowing full well that it was unfinished?
People's patience and tolerance, eh? Sorry Charlie, not trying to get a battle quote out of you but rather I would like to know your opinion on the matter. This is a story about the CU and you stated your opinions in many other areas of it - one more about the heart of the matter would be sufficient.
Guys,
If you think he is dead wrong... Feel free to write us a response. Support your points and generally write well and I will give it equal visibility. We all like a good argument!
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Generally I find community relations to be unsatisfactory. I think the devs tend to alternate between listening to those who whine the loudest and not listening at all. I can't say I blame them though. Most players unconsciously ask for an easier game and get bored when they get it. In the past when they focused on a particual profession it tended to create very tipped FOTM profession, until they 'balanced' rifleman and then chose not to touch combat for a VERY long time.
I don't appreciate hurried patches OR bugs, since some bugs tend to not get resolved for months in the future. Sadly SWG has always been this way. Fortunately my experience with bugs has been tolerable the entire duration I've played the game, and the stuff that hasn't been gets resolved. I think the nature of MMORPGs is to have bugs, bugs, bugs and sadly I've becomed somewhat hardened as I enjoy these types of games so much.
- m o n t h i g o s -
My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of MMORPG.com
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
The dead know only one thing: it is better to be alive.
i remember the days when buffs were more of a rumor than a reality and 20 ppl in a group needed more than an hour to kill a Krayt.
i know that things went astray from these days to today but imho this is because too many ppl were whining about their weakness and the necessity to group to bring down Uber mobs.
that Pre-CU SWG became what it was is a matter of evolution.
crafters stashed excellent resources more and more and used their experimentation on brilliant results.
to see comp clones everywhere was a matter of the given armor ( true true the system) but for a certain percentage a matter of horded resources.
i could go off on a rant here but i´m too tired actually.
SOE was talking about a Upgrade but what they delivered is a downgrade - not a huge overall fix of something they messed up but a totally new system adapted or simply transformed from EQ2.
another given promise SOE broke !!!
i bet that a d4mn lot of all the complains is from A: crafters and B: from players who had other interests in the game than hard-core grinding or solo-grouping day in - day out.
folks who go out hunting even unbuffed ( hard to imagine but it worked even before the DOWNGRADE ) and having fun to live a "life" in a universe they ever dreamt of to be part of.
i played on TC and i did play on live after the CU and yes i even got me the new expansion: ROTW
Kashyyyk looks pretty nice but it isn´t SWG anymore with all its given paths and invisible barriers - no matter what size this new planet might reveal once you did all the quests.
finally the CU is a slap in the face for all those who thought they were participating in a game that challenges their intelligence and patience.
intelligence needed to time your attacks and food buffs and medics when fighting in Fort Tusken unbuffed - just an example.
patience when you wait for a decent resource to spawn to finish your next component for armor or weapon or food or medics.
it´s all down the drain now and replaced by some Star Wars Comic / PvP roxxors event.
individuality either to group or to solo is history.
i honestly was addicted to this game but now i´m cured.
Winn - MCH Dec 2003 - TKM June 2004
Nimmerf - MAS April 2004
cu CU - SOE
faster pussycat - kill kill kill
In the shadows for now....
i just have one comment how much did you get paid for this write up?
i have been with swg for over two years i have two accounts and 3 characters a doc/dancer which i have cancelled through no more use for her, and a second account with a tkm and jedi soon to be cancelled too. the tkm as supposedly a tank couldnt kick the skin off a rice pudding and as for the jedi she may as well stay indoors crafting. all the game needed was to look at certain areas and most of all the bugs that we have played with for almost the life of the game. instead of that they changed the whole game . well all i hope is that as thier pockets get emptier of loose change they think back and say we should have listened to the people that played the game and paid our wages .
BOTTOM LINE!
i used to have fun when i played SWG, A LOT OF FUN!
NOW, i DON'T HAVE FUN! i have tried the CU for 2 weeks and i simply hate it. it is slow, boring, it has a stupid EQ2 look to it, the armor is horrendous, no soloing, jedi is nerfed and it is NOT THE GAME I PAID FOR! not to mention the horrendous attitude of SOE through this whole mess. i gave it a try and it fell flat on its face! so BOTTOM LINE: for us veteran players, IT'S JUST NOT FUN ANYMORE!
SOE paid me ten million dollars to write this article.
Thought I would answer that question since it seems to be a popular one.
- m o n t h i g o s -
My opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of MMORPG.com
I think that this article is right on the money. I like the CU way better than the old combat system.
I'm a huge Star Wars fan, and for along time I have cursed SOE for botching up SWGs. I started posts and tried to gather people together to get a new Star Wars MMO made by any other company besides SOE.
After the CU... I am actually happy. I quit playing WoW to go back to SWG, something I said I would NEVER do.
There have been alot of close minded people, neophobes who are scared of change. I urge everyone that has ever played SWG and quit because of the Hologrind or the AFK macroing to come back and try it again.
I've had more fun playing SWG lately then I have ever.
Granted, there are some issues that need to be addressed. I think that they are finally headed in the right direction to breath life into SWG.
My only gripe is one that I have about EVERY MMO that SOE makes... Insanely Steep grinds and timesinks are a slap in players' (read paying customers') faces.
It's a message that says, "We know you want to see this end game content, but you're going to have pay us alittle more and endure some mind numbing monotony".
[/quote]Monthigos wrote:
SOE paid me ten million dollars to write this article.
Thought I would answer that question since it seems to be a popular one.[/quote]
I am sorry to say this, but your credibility with many of the diehards, disappointed SWG fans, and others has taken a hit. Perhaps your "unedited" version of your article is more redeeming, but doubtful. You obviously love Star Wars Galaxies, more power to you. Several people seem to be forgetting that SOE, like most large, bloating corporations, will spit on their customers however they want as long as the customers continue to let them take their money. SOE has done that... again. Many of us are sick of them ruining a game that had some much potential in redefining MMO's that we will not continue to let them abuse us by making us play an early beta style game.
I also suggest you work on your "reporting" in the future and dig a little deeper instead of being satisfied with the surface.