The goal of the combat upgrade is/was different from the stated intention.
SoE got set under pressure from Lucas Art to bring back the game to the top 5, better top 3.
Unfortunatly, SoE has a bad developement team as well as a bad management (completely lack of customers view).
The developers act like a bunch of basicprogrammers, slamming together a sloppy buggy piece of code, releasing it untested. This fact wont give any room for discussion, load the game and see yourself.
Bugs, and im talking bout essential/gamebreaking bugs, are in that game since almost 2 years, always subject of promissed fix, but never done so far. So the game was not getting bugfixed, it was getting more bugged with every new line of code. The result is an unplayable game nowadays.
The combat upgrade itself has the intention to gain customers in the average age 10-20 years, "youthening" the average playerbase from 35 years.
But SoE did (again) a bad job here: The average player in the age of 10-20 years is very well known as "unstable".
The expectation of SoE, getting new customers/subscribers after EP3 hits the cinemas ("Mommy, i wanna be a Jedi too" - and Mommy's heading to the next EB-game store buying SWG), will burst in a bubble, when these "new customers" realize that
a) Becoming a Jedi is a terrible long and hard way (grindingmadness, esp. post-cu) b) Not worth it (Jedis post-cu sux)
So they will leave the game soon again, cancelling their subscriptions, heading to "more fun games" which ARE out there and which are yet to come still (DnD, Vanguard, Heros Journey etc.)
SoE lost all at the end: They drove away the loyal "veteran" player and they will not bind the new customers in terms of "long haul". So at the end there will be a servermerge, which is the well known end of a game.
You dont believe ? Watch it, 6 weeks after EP3 is in the cinemans, you will see announcements. Dont comment this yet, be sneaky, and just wait for it....trust me.
I saw games going down, i saw managements fail, i saw the result of ignoring customers.
The CU is not a "rebalance" at all, it has imblanaced the game finally. You will see Master Martial Art Artists (aka TKM) running "hysterical" with waving arms (help me), two "corellian butterflies" in the back, HAM down to 30%, incap soon to come.
You will see Jedis (FYI: Jedis are these "so cool uber thingies" from the movies, which can fight whole arenas full of bad buddys) laying around everywhere, waiting for the incaptimer to reset, after they got killed by a "meatlump".
You will see crafter cancelling their accounts, cuz their millions-worth stockpiled ressources has become simply useless (changed shematics), you will see docs leaving (cuz forced to become active combat toons), entertainers, creature handlers and almost every other profession.
SWG is programmed bad, they removed almost every DX9-acceleration cuz they are simply clueless and in completely lack of knowledge how to fix certain gfx-problems, so they simply got rid of the "problem functions", resulting in a poor performance.
Dont think a current high-end system will give you a smooth running, full performance SWG experience, you only waste your hard earned bux. If you want smooth performance, have a look at WELL programmed games with stable and serious programmed engines, like guildwars or halo.
For guildwars and previous comments: It is not true, that SWG post-cu and GW "match" in many aspects now.
1) Guildwars interface was DESIGNED the way it is, it is consequent and functionally this way SWG was "raped" into that look, the poor implementation and functionallity is another proof of the Devs incompetence.
2) As a W/MO 14 toon, i can kill solo 4X 10 + 1X15 critters around me (also as a E/MO) As a TKM or Masterpistol or even Jedi, i cant do that in SWG. Groupplay is one thing, "soloplay sabotage" another.
The bottomline is: It is YOU, who should pay 15$/month for a "game" which lags inacceptable, has a poor gfx-implementation, is buggy that it is a lawsuit already (false advertising), where the Devs and the customersupport is lying to their customers repeatly and proovable, where servers roll back making days of work going down the hill (the 4x XP week was a joke, i still must regrind, even 4-times faster, but still) etc etc etc.
You wanna pay for that ? You should see a shrink.....or the Top Ten here on MMORPG, and get a working game which is FUN, and wont annoy you day in day out.
Nuff said, watch their sunset coming.
Edit for typos - keep the remaining ones :-P
PS.: I played long, many accounts, even Jedi Knight in SWG, so yes: I know what im talking bout
I guess everything has been covered in this thread. But I need the points for my account, so here goes:
I'm glad the original article writer sees some good in the CU, because I can't. In fact, I can't even really see the CU - I have not been able to go longer than 30 minutes without SWG totally freezing up and crashing my computer, ever since the CU was deployed. I'd call that a massive bug, and I'm not the only one. And the response from tech support? Yep, still waiting.
What I could see sucked. I was a Teras Kasi Master, and enjoyed being a TKM. It allowed me to play some ground game, when I wasn't going into space with JTL. I also tinkered with crafting. I also like going it alone, not grouping. Now, all of a sudden, my TKM is a complete weakling. The simplest animals can kill me. That is especially frustrating when, instead of using a few carefully designed attack macros, I have to sit there and keep pressing the same button a hundred times while watching the stupid little dials count down. That is supposed to be fun? What a bunch of idiots the devs are if they think that is fun.
And I can't wear armor, unless I get another class like bounty hunter, and give up my crafting skills. Finally, the spawns have become ludicrous. Every 100 yards some sort of big, aggressive beastie springs up on planets like Lok. There's no way to even stop and put a harvester down without getting killed on most planets.
So even if this was bug-free, the CU is complete crap. People who like to interact with other players, but ultimately prefer to solo, are screwed. People who like to craft and get their own resources are screwed. People who like to mix combat and crafting roles are screwed. For almost a year now, while there have been major flaws, bugs and balance issues, the dev team has been working on: Jump To Lightspeed, then the GCW Revamp, then the Combat Upgrade, and now Rage of the Wookies. At no point does anyone except Elwood the temp programmer in the basement seem to be assigned to fixing existing bugs.
SWG was so unique and interesting because of the way it weaved combat and crafting together, with a legitimate player-based economy. That's been wrecked pretty badly now.
So, to sum up, my main question is: Does the CU make SWG more fun? My answer is a resounding NO. So I'm canceling SWG. Unfortunately for me, I don't really like 'Elves With Big Swords' games, just space-based. So I'm going to try EVE Online since it seems to be near the top of the MMORPG Top 10 list.
I've reopened my account in SWG and loving it. This article is quite accurate and objective in its description.
Lots of things need to be done with this CU, many bugs, lag and other issues. I think the most important thing that I hate is that, as the article describes, anything even just one combat level above me can kill me in a solo encounter. So, it does come to "who has the biggest combat level" when it comes to soloing and this needs to be addressed.
However, all in all it's a pleasant change. I had quit SWG 8 months after its release because it was largely imbalanced and you could solo almost every creature, thus there was no sense of difficulty.
Currently playing: * City of Heroes: Deggial, Assault Rifle/Devices Blaster. Server: Defiant. * City of Villains: Snakeroot, Plant/Thorns Dominator. Server: Defiant.
I have been a very active player for over a year now and have maintained 8 accounts on two different servers (yes, I know I need a real life LOL). Eventhough I have limited myself to 4 accounts now since cu made alot of my crafters useless, I have made my main toons on each server Master Doc/Squad Leader. I have had alot of fun with group hunting since the cu! My guild is closer than ever and more active than ever. Because of that we are also growing and recruiting new members every day. That part of the cu I do like. I also very much appreciate the ability now for crafters to respec. I was able to make my 4 remaining toons into what will be useful based on the cu without the grind.
Anyway, I posted many threads against the cu but also said I would give it chance. I'm starting to see alot of good in it, but have lost alot of friends in the meantime. If you read this and your guild is still strong, I recommend as many guild hunts as possible. If you play on Radiant server and your guild is inactive or falling apart, contact me in game (Tamilia) and I will be glad to recruit you and show you what its all about. Our guild is having alot of fun!
I am however, still disgruntled that they ever forced it on us in the first place, knowing how many people were against it (and not seeming to care). Developers' lack of help along the way and total disregard for the current customers' satisfaction is what bothers me the most. They seem to think that their long time, faithful customers are expendable.
There are my positive and negative opinions on the cu
You nailed the essence of the CU. Frankly, I was getting tired of killing pretty much anything in the game by myself without any risk. I also missed group hunting, and I was generally getting pretty bored withthe game. Now, after the CU, I', seeing guildies I haven't seen in a long time, we are doing group hunts and having a good time. Combined with ROTW, The CU is causing me to enjoy the game again.
this is how I feel after the CU..(combat downgrade). i was only 8 more boxes from making jedi padawan.. something I have been waiting to do since i started playing in jan. 2004.
on march 24 this year will mark the latst day I will play SWG.
I had spent A LONG TIME perfecting and testing my char to make HER ( I am male) the best I could and still have fun. i joined several guilds over the year and finally setteled down in a large town called iron citidel. had i large house that I took pride in its decour (not me mention the 4 million credits i spent on the stuff ) (and the 10 million in loot) and the time spent crafting.playing, and interaction with others...imperial and rebel alike. I was at the top of my game as a master TKA ,novice rifleman and medic. then the CU came and all hell broke loose. my umber char with my 500k armor and cash of weapons went into the crapper i was dieing abd dieing again while fighting creatures i would not even look at before. 20 stormtroopers was a challange for me and if i did it right it was glorious..if not i died..oh well.
now with the nurfs,changes and bugs i changed to a BH and still i cant keep my bu$$ from getting kicked by a nuna or jedi padawan and groups are over rated and tedious. they never want to do the same things at the same time as you do. and most groups are a bunch of winers that bicker and fight over who got what etc etc... dont want it, dont need it, dont like it.
if i want to interact with PPl ill go to a canteena and chat or chat while in combat with my guild or with private msgs...that i could do before now if i sneeze or burp at the right time i will will the timer and not only will i not get to attack ill be dead.
Very good post, I am a former beta tester of SWG plus a subscriber for 4 months after release. SWG while was fun was thee MMORPG nerfed the most. This was one big reason out of the many I left the game. 'm not gonna go into what all the big nerfs were back then or bugs and everything else but I did find your article interesting.
SOE is always pulling out the nerf sledge hammer. The game upon release had 279,000 subscribers. asfter 3 to 4 months it dwindled down to 100,000 plus or minus. That right there says it all, as of currently I could not tell you what the playerbase is but I'm sure it went up again after Jump to Lightspeed came out introducing spacecraft.
Originally posted by Monthigos Just a few notes about this article:2) I cannot deny that I have a lot of fun grouping in SWG now, and still do. I would recommend the grouping experience in SWG to anyone.5) I am still able to solo fine with acceptable experience. My only gripe has been down time. I am a Master Bounty Hunter and Master Squad Leader, and one of my profession is geared entirely towards grouping and I am still able to solo.
I quit SWG before the CU, because I was an entertainer who was trying to become a jedi, and it was too hard to make any spending loot cuz of the buff bots, and the insane grind to become a jedi was boring as hell.
Your 2 comments I quoted above point out one of the new big flaws. If you have a combat character (and you can't get much more combat oriented than your BH/SL), you can enjoy grouping and the combat. If your ANYTHING else, (jedi, entertainer, crafter, scout, doc, etc), you might as well sit in a cantina and drink all day. They took one part of the game, (combat), and made it the ENTIRE game.
SWG has always been far too extreme in it's 'patches/nerfs/upgrades/downgrades'. Remember in the beginning there were far more rebels than imperials, so they gave the imperials much cooler stuff and perks. Then you got tons more imperials than rebels. Then we had the 'holo grinders' take over the game who were just flyin thru as many professions as fast as they could because of the mysterious way to become a jedi, basically a random hit and miss profession grabbin fest. They saw how this was ruining the experience, so they made it an insanely atrocious grind to even try to become a jedi. Now we still have too many jedi, so nerf the hell out of em, super size the bounty hunters and make it easier to find the wimpy baby jedis, yeah... that's the ticket.
Everyone looked forward to the coming combat upgrade, and if it only affected those who wanted to do combat, it might have been a good thing. But to make the entire game combat or nothing, well, you see what is happening.
And just what were they smoking when they thought it would be a great idea to remove most of the animations, have just a few cookie cutter movements for everyone?? And the fantasy icons? Horses? Swords? And the tkm's who can do more damage with a gun they aren't certified to use than they can unarmed, which is what they are designed to do?
Bottom line, to continue to 'enjoy' SWG, make a brand new character, better be sure it's a bounty hunter/squad leader, and hunt jedi. You could probably become rich hiring yourself as a bodyguard to poor crafters who can't travel alone anymore. Spend hours following a guy around and try to keep him alive while he gathers his resources. I'm glad I got out long ago, sorry they borked up the game so bad. Let's hope the good folks at Turbine love the product they have in LOTR, and DON'T MAKE THESE MISTAKES!
For everyone who 'will never play this game again' please take your name out of the hat for the The Total Experience Giveaway so i will have a better chance of winning!
I am not impressed by all the rosy, all is good reviews that I have seen. Yes, alot of the CU is ok and alot of fun....once you get used to it.......and group. Was both styles of play even tried by the author? I love being in a group. It is alot of fun. However, I also love solo play with my low lvl paddy. I can no longer do this. The author should try hunting solo, away from all other players and see what kind of gaming experience he has. I soloed for over a month, had fun, and was never on the terminals. CU comes and I cant fught my way out of a paper bag. Anything near my lvl takes a long time to kill and either gives me 1 point exp or nothing. And that is only if its buddies do not see me and quickly overwelm me and kill me. Creatures my lvl take forever to kill and that is if I do survive. If I get more than 1 I am dead. Anything more than 1 lvl over me will 1 hit incap me. So I group, that is what the whole CU is about, right? I have fun and I am getting exp, then BH comes, I am now dead and in the hole for exp. BH tells me it is my own fault shouldnt get vis!!! 4 days 9 BH. I died the first time and have ran for my life all the others. Had to sit in my house for over na hour once because BH would not leave. BH are all over the place. Every where you turn a BH. This is the Combat Balance?? This is NOT the CU they promised nor is it the CU they showed to the correspondants. Did the author know that? Did he address why people have been banned, posts deleated, and Correspondants fired?? 82% of the votes were against the CU. SOE asked for our responces and never took any of into consideration. They have shoved this at best BETA version of SWG 2 down our throats and told us to like it. I have played for over 20 months. I have 3 accounts. I have lost 4 people from my already small city and 2 from my small guild. This is a rush job so obviously pushed out without being ready to coinside with the new movie. It is not what they were working on for almost 2 years. For once I would like to see a review that actually showed both sides. All is not rosy. Can I learn to like this new SWG....maybe. But it is NOT what the community asked for. SOE did not listen to its client base and obviously doesnt really care.
Originally posted by spreadsheet I am not impressed by all the rosy, all is good reviews that I have seen. Yes, alot of the CU is ok and alot of fun....once you get used to it.......and group. Was both styles of play even tried by the author? I love being in a group. It is alot of fun. However, I also love solo play with my low lvl paddy. I can no longer do this. The author should try hunting solo, away from all other players and see what kind of gaming experience he has.
The author quite clearly stated he soloed with his BH / SL template and did fine with it it. Since your asking him if he soloed after reading his article, did you actually read the article? And then your spewing that 82% number around again which was nothing but a forum poll that less then 1% of the community voted on.
Well I will tell you I HAVE soloed and I do just fine with it. I can take something my own level without a problem and I can handle gray's all day long without breaking a sweat. Perhaps you need to learn how to use your class alittle better and quit trying to do the one button mash like you used to be able to do.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by txrex For everyone who 'will never play this game again' please take your name out of the hat for the The Total Experience Giveaway so i will have a better chance of winning!
word!
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Originally posted by densin9 How much did SOE pay you for this article? Personally I think you are way off, and you don't even touch on the major problems with this Upgrade. I agree its not ALL bad, but the bad outweighs the good. Its sort of like leasing a ferrari and halfway through they change the engine on you to a ford tempo. You would be pissed too.
Touche'
couldnt help but feel that SOE or LA or even your boss had to proof-read this b4 you were allowed to post it, or they just flat out payed you.
Your article was a great read and helped me get a better idea of what the game has become. Most of the topics you hit on showed a VAST improvement from when I was lost logged in (I really don't even remember how long ago that was). But I can't help thinking that this old adage still applies to SWG, "Burn me once shame on you. Burn me twice shame on me."
I am one of the many who bought the game at release and experienced what I would say were the very best 6 to 8 months of MMO gaming ever. After that everything went in the toilet. The "solo group" began and the holo grind was in full effect resulting in the PRE CU garbage that everyone has been playing since then.
Tons of players quit the game because of the changes made to it the first time which ushered in the death of groups and the birth of composite clones, 10k doc buffs and jedi slaughtering faction bases with impunity.
I am happy to see that this dark age period is over and the devs have finally seen the light. I will definitely buy the new game that includes all 3 clients and see this phenomenon for myself. If it has indeed put a challenge back into a game that had been without any for so long then I will be ecstactic.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
just points out some of the good changes while ignoring the game breaking changes many have left b/c.
this is from morat20 on the SWG forums. it explains the solo delima much better then i ever could.
When someone complains about the CU with the phrase "Solo play", they usually mean one of three things:
1. They are unable to solo creatures they had previously been able to solo, pre-CU. 2. They are unable to solo creatures that grant them decent XP. 3. They are unable to solo creatures that grant them decent XP in any decent amount of time.
For some reason, the vast bulk of those who chose to deal with this complain do so by assuming the first is the sole use of the term. Let me make it clear -- the complaints about the solo game have little to NOTHING to do with points 1 and 2. Frankly, the level system is brain-dead simple. Even the stupidest of players or those most set in their ways quickly realized that a level 54 Krayt was EASIER to fight than a level 56 Kreetle.
In the same vein, they quickly realized how to handle specials, warm-ups, timers, action pools and the rest in order to take on a lair of roughtly-equivilant level creatures. I can promise you this -- 99% of those complaing about the solo game nerf not only know HOW to solo something within 2 levels of them (on either side) but have done so. They've taken down entire lairs that way, solo, kiting off one creature at a time.
So stop pretending that's the problem.
It is the third meaning that is the problem. I have, many times, soloed a level 72, 73, or 74 lair. (I am level 74). I'm perfectly able to do it, can do it, and most importantly HAVE DONE IT. So when I say the solo game is 'broken', I am not -- much as many people seem to believe -- complaining I can't solo stuff. I can.
The problem is that the amount of XP I receive, after soloing a lair of level 74 gurks, is not worth the time I have to invest to kill the lair. I kill these things with what I'm fairly sure is maximum efficiency. I rarely have to rest to let me health or action bars regen, I've come up with quick workarounds to the annoying broken windups, and according to the various forums, I'm dealing out my maximum DPS. In short, I'll take down the lairs about as fast as anyone can, solo. (Bounty Hunters, with the proper template, can do it somewhat faster. But, as with all professions that become unduly popular, I expect the nerf bat to swing soon. )
However, when all is said and done -- I have spent 30 minutes to gain roughly 25k weapons XP. Which means I could, factoring in the usual downtime between missions and such, gain about 50k weapons XP per hour. In practice, it's closer to 330 to 40k per hour. In a group, I can EASILY make five to six times that much per hour, WITHOUT any real risk of death, item decay, cloning, or the other associated worries. Plus, I actually make enough money to keep myself in armor and weapons.
In short -- the solo game is highly unrewarding. Group play IS fairly fast paced and exciting, not to mention highly rewarding -- as long as the groups have more than 4 people in them. Solo play, however, is a slow, boring grind whose reward is utterly out of proportion to the amount of time you invest.
A crappy player in a group of 8 can suck down XP like a hose. The most dedicated and skilled solo player, however, would be lucky to make 20% of the XP and credits in the same play span.
I get done with a gurk mission, note I have 35k new pistols experience after 25 minutes of more or less constant fighting, and decide to go play something a bit more fun. I don't mind groups gaining XP faster -- heck, I'm all for it. 15% bonus? Great. 25% bonus? Great.
But if solo play isn't viable, it solo play feels like a boring and unrewarding waste of time, people will leave. It doesn't matter if they can -- or even have -- soloed Krayts or Nightsister elders or SBDs or whatever. Few people CARE enough to figure out what mobs they've 'soloed'. They fight for other reasons -- XP, credits, or loot. As a solo player, all three aren't worth the time.
So please, when people complain about the 'solo game' being nerfed -- they're not griping about not being able to solo Krayts (heck, that's EASIER now). They're complaining that fighting ANYTHING solo is unrewarding. However great and exciting the group game is, the solo game sucks. NOT because we're no longer 'uber'. Not because we lost our 'I win' button. Not because we're too fricking stupid to work out the dumbed down combat system (Is my level within two of it's level? Great. I can kill it AND get XP. Real tactical there). But because time spent playing solo is time wasted. It's boring, repetitive, and utterly unrewarding.
And, like with EVERYTHING else in life, people won't pay for something they don't enjoy.
So I group, that is what the whole CU is about, right? I have fun and I am getting exp, then BH comes, I am now dead and in the hole for exp. BH tells me it is my own fault shouldnt get vis!!! 4 days 9 BH. I died the first time and have ran for my life all the others. Had to sit in my house for over na hour once because BH would not leave. BH are all over the place. Every where you turn a BH. This is the Combat Balance??
I definately agree there are WAY too many BH now (respec BH at that). The respec BH dont even know how to play the game, they are totally off-base when they hunt Jedi of the same faction! My husband's Rebel jedi on Radiant has been killed more by Rebel BH than Imperials lately! That is just a slap in the face on top of being killed.
Originally posted by Seldona Agreed mostly. I left Galaxies because the game was absurdly out of balance, and the PVE was simply a joke in 99.9% of cases. The PVP was not all that great either, which for me is the end game and has to be good to keep me around. Also in my mind, one should be nervous taking a hunting trip in Endor or Dath. Not be able to take a solo jaunt out there and waste rancors 2 and 3 at a time with your bars barely moving. And that was how the game WAS. It certainly isn't anymore. lol Though for me it is no big deal, because I like grouping better anyway. No so for everyone, I understand that. Even most of my rl friends that were still playing have left, especially the 3 Jedis that I PERSONALY knew. I know I will get flamed, but this CU in my mind is exactly how it should be for Jedi at this point in the story line. You should have swarms of Bounty Hunters after you gain visability. It SHOULD be hard to grind. Jedi are supposed to be uber rare. That said, what I do not hear is people sharing their experiances on how they have been SUCCESSFUL in the CU, and they are out there. Thank you MMORPG.com for presently the other side the story. Don't get me wrong. I completely understand that this is the biggest upgrade in mmorpg history. They cannot please everyone. And in revamping what was a terminaly broken system they had no choice but to radiacly alter weapons, armor, etc, in order to finally achieve that balance at least in my opinion. Are there bugs? Yes. Sucks items got nerfed so hard? Yes for those that had them, no for balance issues. Does the level system need tweaking. HELL YES! And that tweaking can and should solve at least some of the Jedi problem grinding. But I think that overall this will a very good system. Glad I came back, so far at least. Just my 2 cents as an old vet coming back to see how the new system operated, and only been back a couple weeks at that. Please no flames. Just sharing my experiances and opinions.
I can only hope that the jedi get frustrated and leave....
It was a mistake to ever allow players to be jedi. If this CU makes it hard to be a jedi Like it was always supposed to be (COUGH**permadeath**). If this thins out the jedi or drives them into hiding then I say.....
AWESOME!!
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
SOE have routinely proven at least with the SWG Franchise to be out of touch so far with the MMO audience that I wonder if they have sacked the game on purpose. What am I talking about you ask? If they had 4 characters rather than 1, what would it have meant to the original player base?
If they had created not 1 but 2 of the worst systems ever invisioned for the Jedi perhaps there would be more players? I firmly think the person who is responsible for the Class grind system should no long even play MMOs. That is assuming they ever did.
The combat upgrade took far to long to do and like most things SWG it seemed totaly disorganized in scope, vision and promise. It sounded like it would be all things to all players and when fingers went to coding it scaled back repeatedly.
I preordered the upgrade and prepaired to give it a try even though everyone I ever knew in the game long ago left swearing to never explore another SOE product. I wonder if it effected EQ2? Who knows I never even looked at it.
I spent 4 "FOUR" days with constant problems actually playing after the expansion. There were no guides to help with the errors and not enough support to go around, and since I only had one character it wasn't worth dealing with. I canceled my subscription and my preorder and figure I'll visit the Lucas Universe when someone much more creative and customer oriented than SOE takes a shot at making the world come alive.
The review was ok, I wouldn't know if it is accurate since I wasn't able to play after it rolled onto my desktop.
People who just want Jedi to get screwed over should play console games. It's about fun and NO Player is responsible for the only epic thing in SWG, the lack of vision and understanding of the SWG Audience.
Should they not have known people play Starwars for the Jedi Experience? Should they not have known everyone would be looking for an opportunity to experience it? Should they not have known that no matter how horrific the system they implimented that players would still do whatever it took?
It isn't the players fault the Devs chose a terrible time slot to place the game it, a terrible and shallow game design nor is it their fault there were suddenly no longer only 2.
They wrote the book on fun but they didn't include it in their vision of this franchise. The player base speaks all that needs to be said.
Galaxies could have been bigger than WoW but for the vision applied to the design and developement from even before it went live.
Wish more players away, Those Damn Jedi. I can tell you that the only sure thing you can ever bet on in SWG is more poor desicions and a shrinking player base. I'm glad we can not target monsters anymore. That was much more important to deal with than having my buildings disappear for days at a time.
the most overlooked aspect of this whole fiasco is this. THIS GAME IS OVER 2 YEARS OLD!
the player base, many of wich have been around since launch have experienced virtually everything this game can offer. the reason we still pay for our accounts every month is because weve narrowed down the game to a select few things that still gives us enjoyment.
for me personally that consisted of soloing high end rebel npc's, nightsisters, and krayts for loot,faction, and exp towards my jedi.
the day the cu went live 100% of what i do in the game became completly impossible or at the very least became extremelly difficult and was no longer fun .
so the option was this..... learn a completly new system in a game that ive already experienced all the content there is to experience or learn a new system in a new game.
sadly for me and hundreds of others the choice was a no brainer
my entire guild to the man moved to WoW in the week following the cu
Comments
The goal of the combat upgrade is/was different from the stated intention.
SoE got set under pressure from Lucas Art to bring back the game to the top 5, better top 3.
Unfortunatly, SoE has a bad developement team as well as a bad management (completely lack of customers view).
The developers act like a bunch of basicprogrammers, slamming together a sloppy buggy piece of code, releasing it untested. This fact wont give any room for discussion, load the game and see yourself.
Bugs, and im talking bout essential/gamebreaking bugs, are in that game since almost 2 years, always subject of promissed fix, but never done so far. So the game was not getting bugfixed, it was getting more bugged with every new line of code. The result is an unplayable game nowadays.
The combat upgrade itself has the intention to gain customers in the average age 10-20 years, "youthening" the average playerbase from 35 years.
But SoE did (again) a bad job here:
The average player in the age of 10-20 years is very well known as "unstable".
The expectation of SoE, getting new customers/subscribers after EP3 hits the cinemas ("Mommy, i wanna be a Jedi too" - and Mommy's heading to the next EB-game store buying SWG), will burst in a bubble, when these "new customers" realize that
a) Becoming a Jedi is a terrible long and hard way (grindingmadness, esp. post-cu)
b) Not worth it (Jedis post-cu sux)
So they will leave the game soon again, cancelling their subscriptions, heading to "more fun games" which ARE out there and which are yet to come still (DnD, Vanguard, Heros Journey etc.)
SoE lost all at the end:
They drove away the loyal "veteran" player and they will not bind the new customers in terms of "long haul". So at the end there will be a servermerge, which is the well known end of a game.
You dont believe ?
Watch it, 6 weeks after EP3 is in the cinemans, you will see announcements.
Dont comment this yet, be sneaky, and just wait for it....trust me.
I saw games going down, i saw managements fail, i saw the result of ignoring customers.
The CU is not a "rebalance" at all, it has imblanaced the game finally.
You will see Master Martial Art Artists (aka TKM) running "hysterical" with waving arms (help me), two "corellian butterflies" in the back, HAM down to 30%, incap soon to come.
You will see Jedis (FYI: Jedis are these "so cool uber thingies" from the movies, which can fight whole arenas full of bad buddys) laying around everywhere, waiting for the incaptimer to reset, after they got killed by a "meatlump".
You will see crafter cancelling their accounts, cuz their millions-worth stockpiled ressources has become simply useless (changed shematics), you will see docs leaving (cuz forced to become active combat toons), entertainers, creature handlers and almost every other profession.
SWG is programmed bad, they removed almost every DX9-acceleration cuz they are simply clueless and in completely lack of knowledge how to fix certain gfx-problems, so they simply got rid of the "problem functions", resulting in a poor performance.
Dont think a current high-end system will give you a smooth running, full performance SWG experience, you only waste your hard earned bux. If you want smooth performance, have a look at WELL programmed games with stable and serious programmed engines, like guildwars or halo.
For guildwars and previous comments:
It is not true, that SWG post-cu and GW "match" in many aspects now.
1) Guildwars interface was DESIGNED the way it is, it is consequent and functionally this way
SWG was "raped" into that look, the poor implementation and functionallity is another proof of the Devs incompetence.
2) As a W/MO 14 toon, i can kill solo 4X 10 + 1X15 critters around me (also as a E/MO)
As a TKM or Masterpistol or even Jedi, i cant do that in SWG.
Groupplay is one thing, "soloplay sabotage" another.
The bottomline is:
It is YOU, who should pay 15$/month for a "game" which lags inacceptable, has a poor gfx-implementation, is buggy that it is a lawsuit already (false advertising), where the Devs and the customersupport is lying to their customers repeatly and proovable, where servers roll back making days of work going down the hill (the 4x XP week was a joke, i still must regrind, even 4-times faster, but still) etc etc etc.
You wanna pay for that ?
You should see a shrink.....or the Top Ten here on MMORPG, and get a working game which is FUN, and wont annoy you day in day out.
Nuff said, watch their sunset coming.
Edit for typos - keep the remaining ones :-P
PS.:
I played long, many accounts, even Jedi Knight in SWG, so yes: I know what im talking bout
I guess everything has been covered in this thread. But I need the points for my account, so here goes:
I'm glad the original article writer sees some good in the CU, because I can't. In fact, I can't even really see the CU - I have not been able to go longer than 30 minutes without SWG totally freezing up and crashing my computer, ever since the CU was deployed. I'd call that a massive bug, and I'm not the only one. And the response from tech support? Yep, still waiting.
What I could see sucked. I was a Teras Kasi Master, and enjoyed being a TKM. It allowed me to play some ground game, when I wasn't going into space with JTL. I also tinkered with crafting. I also like going it alone, not grouping. Now, all of a sudden, my TKM is a complete weakling. The simplest animals can kill me. That is especially frustrating when, instead of using a few carefully designed attack macros, I have to sit there and keep pressing the same button a hundred times while watching the stupid little dials count down. That is supposed to be fun? What a bunch of idiots the devs are if they think that is fun.
And I can't wear armor, unless I get another class like bounty hunter, and give up my crafting skills. Finally, the spawns have become ludicrous. Every 100 yards some sort of big, aggressive beastie springs up on planets like Lok. There's no way to even stop and put a harvester down without getting killed on most planets.
So even if this was bug-free, the CU is complete crap. People who like to interact with other players, but ultimately prefer to solo, are screwed. People who like to craft and get their own resources are screwed. People who like to mix combat and crafting roles are screwed. For almost a year now, while there have been major flaws, bugs and balance issues, the dev team has been working on: Jump To Lightspeed, then the GCW Revamp, then the Combat Upgrade, and now Rage of the Wookies. At no point does anyone except Elwood the temp programmer in the basement seem to be assigned to fixing existing bugs.
SWG was so unique and interesting because of the way it weaved combat and crafting together, with a legitimate player-based economy. That's been wrecked pretty badly now.
So, to sum up, my main question is: Does the CU make SWG more fun? My answer is a resounding NO. So I'm canceling SWG. Unfortunately for me, I don't really like 'Elves With Big Swords' games, just space-based. So I'm going to try EVE Online since it seems to be near the top of the MMORPG Top 10 list.
I've reopened my account in SWG and loving it. This article is quite accurate and objective in its description.
Lots of things need to be done with this CU, many bugs, lag and other issues. I think the most important thing that I hate is that, as the article describes, anything even just one combat level above me can kill me in a solo encounter. So, it does come to "who has the biggest combat level" when it comes to soloing and this needs to be addressed.
However, all in all it's a pleasant change. I had quit SWG 8 months after its release because it was largely imbalanced and you could solo almost every creature, thus there was no sense of difficulty.
Currently playing:
* City of Heroes: Deggial, Assault Rifle/Devices Blaster. Server: Defiant.
* City of Villains: Snakeroot, Plant/Thorns Dominator. Server: Defiant.
I have been a very active player for over a year now and have maintained 8 accounts on two different servers (yes, I know I need a real life LOL). Eventhough I have limited myself to 4 accounts now since cu made alot of my crafters useless, I have made my main toons on each server Master Doc/Squad Leader. I have had alot of fun with group hunting since the cu! My guild is closer than ever and more active than ever. Because of that we are also growing and recruiting new members every day. That part of the cu I do like. I also very much appreciate the ability now for crafters to respec. I was able to make my 4 remaining toons into what will be useful based on the cu without the grind.
Anyway, I posted many threads against the cu but also said I would give it chance. I'm starting to see alot of good in it, but have lost alot of friends in the meantime. If you read this and your guild is still strong, I recommend as many guild hunts as possible. If you play on Radiant server and your guild is inactive or falling apart, contact me in game (Tamilia) and I will be glad to recruit you and show you what its all about. Our guild is having alot of fun!
I am however, still disgruntled that they ever forced it on us in the first place, knowing how many people were against it (and not seeming to care). Developers' lack of help along the way and total disregard for the current customers' satisfaction is what bothers me the most. They seem to think that their long time, faithful customers are expendable.
There are my positive and negative opinions on the cuYou nailed the essence of the CU. Frankly, I was getting tired of killing pretty much anything in the game by myself without any risk. I also missed group hunting, and I was generally getting pretty bored withthe game. Now, after the CU, I', seeing guildies I haven't seen in a long time, we are doing group hunts and having a good time. Combined with ROTW, The CU is causing me to enjoy the game again.
Monthigos don't get drawn into a pissing contest with angry posters. legacyguy obviousely has some issues with misdirected hostility.
I think the article is fine.
this is how I feel after the CU..(combat downgrade). i was only 8 more boxes from making jedi padawan.. something I have been waiting to do since i started playing in jan. 2004.
on march 24 this year will mark the latst day I will play SWG.
I had spent A LONG TIME perfecting and testing my char to make HER ( I am male) the best I could and still have fun. i joined several guilds over the year and finally setteled down in a large town called iron citidel. had i large house that I took pride in its decour (not me mention the 4 million credits i spent on the stuff
) (and the 10 million in loot) and the time spent crafting.playing, and interaction with others...imperial and rebel alike. I was at the top of my game as a master TKA ,novice rifleman and medic. then the CU came and all hell broke loose. my umber char with my 500k armor and cash of weapons went into the crapper 
i was dieing abd dieing again while fighting creatures i would not even look at before. 20 stormtroopers was a challange for me and if i did it right it was glorious..if not i died..oh well.
now with the nurfs,changes and bugs i changed to a BH and still i cant keep my bu$$ from getting kicked by a nuna or jedi padawan
and groups are over rated and tedious. they never want to do the same things at the same time as you do. and most groups are a bunch of winers that bicker and fight over who got what etc etc... dont want it, dont need it, dont like it.
if i want to interact with PPl ill go to a canteena and chat or chat while in combat with my guild or with private msgs...that i could do before now if i sneeze or burp at the right time i will will the timer and not only will i not get to attack ill be dead.
fun as left the building....
heres hopeing the moves better
laterz...sala loi-corbantus server.
Great article Clint. After reading that, I just might reactivate my account!
Habit is not to be flung out the window by any man, but coaxed down the stairs one step at a time. - Mark Twain
Very good post, I am a former beta tester of SWG plus a subscriber for 4 months after release. SWG while was fun was thee MMORPG nerfed the most. This was one big reason out of the many I left the game. 'm not gonna go into what all the big nerfs were back then or bugs and everything else but I did find your article interesting.
SOE is always pulling out the nerf sledge hammer. The game upon release had 279,000 subscribers. asfter 3 to 4 months it dwindled down to 100,000 plus or minus. That right there says it all, as of currently I could not tell you what the playerbase is but I'm sure it went up again after Jump to Lightspeed came out introducing spacecraft.
I quit SWG before the CU, because I was an entertainer who was trying to become a jedi, and it was too hard to make any spending loot cuz of the buff bots, and the insane grind to become a jedi was boring as hell.
Your 2 comments I quoted above point out one of the new big flaws. If you have a combat character (and you can't get much more combat oriented than your BH/SL), you can enjoy grouping and the combat. If your ANYTHING else, (jedi, entertainer, crafter, scout, doc, etc), you might as well sit in a cantina and drink all day. They took one part of the game, (combat), and made it the ENTIRE game.
SWG has always been far too extreme in it's 'patches/nerfs/upgrades/downgrades'. Remember in the beginning there were far more rebels than imperials, so they gave the imperials much cooler stuff and perks. Then you got tons more imperials than rebels. Then we had the 'holo grinders' take over the game who were just flyin thru as many professions as fast as they could because of the mysterious way to become a jedi, basically a random hit and miss profession grabbin fest. They saw how this was ruining the experience, so they made it an insanely atrocious grind to even try to become a jedi. Now we still have too many jedi, so nerf the hell out of em, super size the bounty hunters and make it easier to find the wimpy baby jedis, yeah... that's the ticket.
Everyone looked forward to the coming combat upgrade, and if it only affected those who wanted to do combat, it might have been a good thing. But to make the entire game combat or nothing, well, you see what is happening.
And just what were they smoking when they thought it would be a great idea to remove most of the animations, have just a few cookie cutter movements for everyone?? And the fantasy icons? Horses? Swords? And the tkm's who can do more damage with a gun they aren't certified to use than they can unarmed, which is what they are designed to do?
Bottom line, to continue to 'enjoy' SWG, make a brand new character, better be sure it's a bounty hunter/squad leader, and hunt jedi. You could probably become rich hiring yourself as a bodyguard to poor crafters who can't travel alone anymore. Spend hours following a guy around and try to keep him alive while he gathers his resources. I'm glad I got out long ago, sorry they borked up the game so bad. Let's hope the good folks at Turbine love the product they have in LOTR, and DON'T MAKE THESE MISTAKES!
For everyone who 'will never play this game again' please take your name out of the hat for the The Total Experience Giveaway so i will have a better chance of winning!
The author quite clearly stated he soloed with his BH / SL template and did fine with it it. Since your asking him if he soloed after reading his article, did you actually read the article? And then your spewing that 82% number around again which was nothing but a forum poll that less then 1% of the community voted on.
Well I will tell you I HAVE soloed and I do just fine with it. I can take something my own level without a problem and I can handle gray's all day long without breaking a sweat. Perhaps you need to learn how to use your class alittle better and quit trying to do the one button mash like you used to be able to do.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
word!
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Touche'
couldnt help but feel that SOE or LA or even your boss had to proof-read this b4 you were allowed to post it, or they just flat out payed you.
Your article was a great read and helped me get a better idea of what the game has become. Most of the topics you hit on showed a VAST improvement from when I was lost logged in (I really don't even remember how long ago that was). But I can't help thinking that this old adage still applies to SWG, "Burn me once shame on you. Burn me twice shame on me."
I am a veteran of "Old School" SWG......
I am one of the many who bought the game at release and experienced what I would say were the very best 6 to 8 months of MMO gaming ever. After that everything went in the toilet. The "solo group" began and the holo grind was in full effect resulting in the PRE CU garbage that everyone has been playing since then.
Tons of players quit the game because of the changes made to it the first time which ushered in the death of groups and the birth of composite clones, 10k doc buffs and jedi slaughtering faction bases with impunity.
I am happy to see that this dark age period is over and the devs have finally seen the light. I will definitely buy the new game that includes all 3 clients and see this phenomenon for myself. If it has indeed put a challenge back into a game that had been without any for so long then I will be ecstactic.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
just points out some of the good changes while ignoring the game breaking changes many have left b/c.
this is from morat20 on the SWG forums. it explains the solo delima much better then i ever could.
When someone complains about the CU with the phrase "Solo play", they usually mean one of three things:
1. They are unable to solo creatures they had previously been able to solo, pre-CU.
2. They are unable to solo creatures that grant them decent XP.
3. They are unable to solo creatures that grant them decent XP in any decent amount of time.
For some reason, the vast bulk of those who chose to deal with this complain do so by assuming the first is the sole use of the term. Let me make it clear -- the complaints about the solo game have little to NOTHING to do with points 1 and 2. Frankly, the level system is brain-dead simple. Even the stupidest of players or those most set in their ways quickly realized that a level 54 Krayt was EASIER to fight than a level 56 Kreetle.
In the same vein, they quickly realized how to handle specials, warm-ups, timers, action pools and the rest in order to take on a lair of roughtly-equivilant level creatures. I can promise you this -- 99% of those complaing about the solo game nerf not only know HOW to solo something within 2 levels of them (on either side) but have done so. They've taken down entire lairs that way, solo, kiting off one creature at a time.
So stop pretending that's the problem.
It is the third meaning that is the problem. I have, many times, soloed a level 72, 73, or 74 lair. (I am level 74). I'm perfectly able to do it, can do it, and most importantly HAVE DONE IT. So when I say the solo game is 'broken', I am not -- much as many people seem to believe -- complaining I can't solo stuff. I can.
The problem is that the amount of XP I receive, after soloing a lair of level 74 gurks, is not worth the time I have to invest to kill the lair. I kill these things with what I'm fairly sure is maximum efficiency. I rarely have to rest to let me health or action bars regen, I've come up with quick workarounds to the annoying broken windups, and according to the various forums, I'm dealing out my maximum DPS. In short, I'll take down the lairs about as fast as anyone can, solo. (Bounty Hunters, with the proper template, can do it somewhat faster. But, as with all professions that become unduly popular, I expect the nerf bat to swing soon. )
However, when all is said and done -- I have spent 30 minutes to gain roughly 25k weapons XP. Which means I could, factoring in the usual downtime between missions and such, gain about 50k weapons XP per hour. In practice, it's closer to 330 to 40k per hour. In a group, I can EASILY make five to six times that much per hour, WITHOUT any real risk of death, item decay, cloning, or the other associated worries. Plus, I actually make enough money to keep myself in armor and weapons.
In short -- the solo game is highly unrewarding. Group play IS fairly fast paced and exciting, not to mention highly rewarding -- as long as the groups have more than 4 people in them. Solo play, however, is a slow, boring grind whose reward is utterly out of proportion to the amount of time you invest.
A crappy player in a group of 8 can suck down XP like a hose. The most dedicated and skilled solo player, however, would be lucky to make 20% of the XP and credits in the same play span.
I get done with a gurk mission, note I have 35k new pistols experience after 25 minutes of more or less constant fighting, and decide to go play something a bit more fun. I don't mind groups gaining XP faster -- heck, I'm all for it. 15% bonus? Great. 25% bonus? Great.
But if solo play isn't viable, it solo play feels like a boring and unrewarding waste of time, people will leave. It doesn't matter if they can -- or even have -- soloed Krayts or Nightsister elders or SBDs or whatever. Few people CARE enough to figure out what mobs they've 'soloed'. They fight for other reasons -- XP, credits, or loot. As a solo player, all three aren't worth the time.
So please, when people complain about the 'solo game' being nerfed -- they're not griping about not being able to solo Krayts (heck, that's EASIER now). They're complaining that fighting ANYTHING solo is unrewarding. However great and exciting the group game is, the solo game sucks. NOT because we're no longer 'uber'. Not because we lost our 'I win' button. Not because we're too fricking stupid to work out the dumbed down combat system (Is my level within two of it's level? Great. I can kill it AND get XP. Real tactical there). But because time spent playing solo is time wasted. It's boring, repetitive, and utterly unrewarding.
And, like with EVERYTHING else in life, people won't pay for something they don't enjoy.
I can only hope that the jedi get frustrated and leave....
It was a mistake to ever allow players to be jedi. If this CU makes it hard to be a jedi Like it was always supposed to be (COUGH**permadeath**). If this thins out the jedi or drives them into hiding then I say.....
AWESOME!!
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
SOE have routinely proven at least with the SWG Franchise to be out of touch so far with the MMO audience that I wonder if they have sacked the game on purpose. What am I talking about you ask? If they had 4 characters rather than 1, what would it have meant to the original player base?
If they had created not 1 but 2 of the worst systems ever invisioned for the Jedi perhaps there would be more players? I firmly think the person who is responsible for the Class grind system should no long even play MMOs. That is assuming they ever did.
The combat upgrade took far to long to do and like most things SWG it seemed totaly disorganized in scope, vision and promise. It sounded like it would be all things to all players and when fingers went to coding it scaled back repeatedly.
I preordered the upgrade and prepaired to give it a try even though everyone I ever knew in the game long ago left swearing to never explore another SOE product. I wonder if it effected EQ2? Who knows I never even looked at it.
I spent 4 "FOUR" days with constant problems actually playing after the expansion. There were no guides to help with the errors and not enough support to go around, and since I only had one character it wasn't worth dealing with. I canceled my subscription and my preorder and figure I'll visit the Lucas Universe when someone much more creative and customer oriented than SOE takes a shot at making the world come alive.
The review was ok, I wouldn't know if it is accurate since I wasn't able to play after it rolled onto my desktop.
People who just want Jedi to get screwed over should play console games. It's about fun and NO Player is responsible for the only epic thing in SWG, the lack of vision and understanding of the SWG Audience.
Should they not have known people play Starwars for the Jedi Experience? Should they not have known everyone would be looking for an opportunity to experience it? Should they not have known that no matter how horrific the system they implimented that players would still do whatever it took?
It isn't the players fault the Devs chose a terrible time slot to place the game it, a terrible and shallow game design nor is it their fault there were suddenly no longer only 2.
They wrote the book on fun but they didn't include it in their vision of this franchise. The player base speaks all that needs to be said.
Galaxies could have been bigger than WoW but for the vision applied to the design and developement from even before it went live.
Wish more players away, Those Damn Jedi. I can tell you that the only sure thing you can ever bet on in SWG is more poor desicions and a shrinking player base. I'm glad we can not target monsters anymore. That was much more important to deal with than having my buildings disappear for days at a time.
the most overlooked aspect of this whole fiasco is this. THIS GAME IS OVER 2 YEARS OLD!
the player base, many of wich have been around since launch have experienced virtually everything this game can offer. the reason we still pay for our accounts every month is because weve narrowed down the game to a select few things that still gives us enjoyment.
for me personally that consisted of soloing high end rebel npc's, nightsisters, and krayts for loot,faction, and exp towards my jedi.
the day the cu went live 100% of what i do in the game became completly impossible or at the very least became extremelly difficult and was no longer fun .
so the option was this..... learn a completly new system in a game that ive already experienced all the content there is to experience or learn a new system in a new game.
sadly for me and hundreds of others the choice was a no brainer
my entire guild to the man moved to WoW in the week following the cu