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WoW Up to 7.8 Million Subscribers

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  • GuyClinchGuyClinch Member CommonPosts: 485

    Sorry duplicate.

  • GuyClinchGuyClinch Member CommonPosts: 485

    'As has been calculated... how many western players would be willing to pay 40 dollars a month to play WoW for 3 hours a day ?"

    #1. China is gigantic diverse country. There are millions of poor villagers who make nothing by american standards. But their are tens of millions of wealthy people in Shanghai and Ghangzhou that pay only the tiniest fraction of their income to play a game like WoW. Averaging them all together is misleading at best. The people that are playing WoW over there  are not putting a huge part of their income into the game. They make alot of money.

    #2. It doesn't matter 'how much' of a economic burden the game puts on the players. That doesn't make the subscriptions 'more valuable' to Blizzard. Its how much money they actually bring in. Its clear from Blizzards financial statements that they bring hardly any money in at all - something like 7%.

    What you have is basically a HUGE block of 'subscribers' that actually pay only hourly fees at internet cafes (they don't have to buy the box) lumped in with US players who not only subscribe but have to buy each expansion. Its an apples and oranges kind of thing.

    Blizzard just lumps them together to up their 'numbers'. I think everyone reading this thread knows this. They just like crowing about the high number of subscribers so much they support it. But its a joke. Blizzard has alot of subsribers but the real number is around 3.3 milliion to 4.0 million.

  • KuvnerilKuvneril Member Posts: 7

    I haven't played since 3.1 and I have no idea about the current state of the game. No offense but it looks like a dead cat bounce to me.

  • zastenzasten Member Posts: 283

    How many of these are going to rage quit now that they are selling max level chars?

    I know some one that after spending years playing to get to where they are in the game has decided on hearing this that they are no longer going to play!

  • KnotwoodKnotwood Member CommonPosts: 1,103

    I got up to 73 and quit.   I needed more storylines then the same ole stuff they were giving us.   I never liked the same battlegrounds and worthless crafting as things to do in free time.   I left to Lotro, then EQ 2  then a few more in between but I'm really excited about ESO now.  

     

    Has wow done anything to add in a lot more storylines that are not just copy / paste quests?   How is crafting now, is it worth doing, and what is there to do in free time endgame now?

  • sbantingsbanting Member Posts: 238
    Originally posted by Knotwood

    Has wow done anything to add in a lot more storylines that are not just copy / paste quests?   How is crafting now, is it worth doing, and what is there to do in free time endgame now?

     

    Wows storytelling has come on leaps and bounds since Burning Crusade (which is what you got up to in terms of content). The story telling in MoP is rather good, and involved, a few storylines have gripped me to the point of turning off music, getting off TS, just to listen to the cutscene, or read the script.

     

    Crafting, is well pretty much the same, WoD is meant to help crafting, but there are still some crafting that everyone needs, like gem crafting, enchanting, alchemy and inscription. Due to needing new enchants, gems, flasks, etc for new gear and raids/challenge modes.

     

    Personally, WoW is much more fun to play now, than ever before, but I don't know what they were thinking when they released SoO, and then thought, well next is the expansion, we've learnt from our mistakes with 10 month long end of expansion raids, so we are going to do that again.... It's a shame, but if you weren't there at the start of SoO release, then there is plenty to do, for at least 4-5 months, and by that point WoD should of been released, if what they said holds true.

     

    Back on topic though, these numbers have mainly gone up, as this is up to December, and in that quarter SoO was released, so people came back to finish off the expansion, and find out what happens to Garrosh.

    image

  • ShadoedShadoed Member UncommonPosts: 1,459
    Originally posted by GuyClinch

    Blizzard just lumps them together to up their 'numbers'. I think everyone reading this thread knows this. They just like crowing about the high number of subscribers so much they support it. But its a joke. Blizzard has alot of subsribers but the real number is around 3.3 milliion to 4.0 million.

    Like free to play games will crow about how many boxes they have shifted but not how many players are actually playing the game a few months later?!?

    Regardless of the payment method, the people have payed and played, there is no denying that fact and Blizzard make that perfectly transparent, there is no hiding behind language or baffling numbers, the definitions are there for all to see plain and simple. If people have a prejudice against a particular payment model, fine, so be it, but even if you wanted to discount those the game has still lost more subs than some will ever have in their lifespan and still has more than any other western subscriber model by a bucket load, where is the shame in that?

    It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,063
    Originally posted by sbanting
    Originally posted by Knotwood

    Has wow done anything to add in a lot more storylines that are not just copy / paste quests?   How is crafting now, is it worth doing, and what is there to do in free time endgame now?

     

    Wows storytelling has come on leaps and bounds since Burning Crusade (which is what you got up to in terms of content). The story telling in MoP is rather good, and involved, a few storylines have gripped me to the point of turning off music, getting off TS, just to listen to the cutscene, or read the script.

     

    Crafting, is well pretty much the same, WoD is meant to help crafting, but there are still some crafting that everyone needs, like gem crafting, enchanting, alchemy and inscription. Due to needing new enchants, gems, flasks, etc for new gear and raids/challenge modes.

     

    Personally, WoW is much more fun to play now, than ever before, but I don't know what they were thinking when they released SoO, and then thought, well next is the expansion, we've learnt from our mistakes with 10 month long end of expansion raids, so we are going to do that again.... It's a shame, but if you weren't there at the start of SoO release, then there is plenty to do, for at least 4-5 months, and by that point WoD should of been released, if what they said holds true.

     

    Back on topic though, these numbers have mainly gone up, as this is up to December, and in that quarter SoO was released, so people came back to finish off the expansion, and find out what happens to Garrosh.

    I couldn't agree with this more. I recently subbed back for my fantasy fix and the story content has improved by leaps and bounds since I last played. I'm having a lot of fun leveling an undead hunter through the new zones. 

    I can't believe there's still people butt sore over WOW's success all these years later. Subs might not be 12 million anymore, but they're still higher than any other MMO on the market. That's just a cold hard fact that the haters can't spin no matter how hard they try.  

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • GuyClinchGuyClinch Member CommonPosts: 485

    People aren't buttsore - its just that blizzard is being disengenious. Read this months column if you want to understand - I didn't write it but this guy gets it.

    Revenue is falling even with 'numbers' are rising. This is what happens if you play fast and loose with the sub numbers like Blizzard does. They can manipulte teh numbers by having sales overseas. Lower the hourly cost enough and suddenly subs 'rise'. But did they really? no.

    The only subs that matter are the ones that generate significant revenue for the company. The asian subs are just noise.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/8216/WoWs-Subscribers-Are-Up-Maybe.html

     

    Its not some crackpoint theory to point out that guys paying pennies on the hour shouldn't be tossed in with guys forced to pay $15 bucks a month.

  • ShadoedShadoed Member UncommonPosts: 1,459
    Originally posted by GuyClinch

    People aren't buttsore - its just that blizzard is being disengenious. Read this months column if you want to understand - I didn't write it but this guy gets it.

    Revenue is falling even with 'numbers' are rising. This is what happens if you play fast and loose with the sub numbers like Blizzard does. They can manipulte teh numbers by having sales overseas. Lower the hourly cost enough and suddenly subs 'rise'. But did they really? no.

    The only subs that matter are the ones that generate significant revenue for the company. The asian subs are just noise.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/8216/WoWs-Subscribers-Are-Up-Maybe.html

     

    Its not some crackpoint theory to point out that guys paying pennies on the hour shouldn't be tossed in with guys forced to pay $15 bucks a month.

    I am one of those players 'forced' (strange choice of words) to pay their £9/month and i have no truck with another player who pays for his game time in a different way to me, it makes him no less of a player in my eyes and Blizzard round us all up under the title of subscribers.

    The argument made in that article is one of transparency and i honestly don't get that, Blizzard could not be more transparent about their figures, they have never hidden their definition, they have always been very open about what is and isn't included within that definition, if some feel that definition is wrong, that really is not Blizzards problem. What is ultimately achieved by splitting out the figures other than some people will point out what they are already pointing out without them split and ultimately disbelieving them anyway?

    It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,063
    Originally posted by GuyClinch

    People aren't buttsore - its just that blizzard is being disengenious. Read this months column if you want to understand - I didn't write it but this guy gets it.

    Revenue is falling even with 'numbers' are rising. This is what happens if you play fast and loose with the sub numbers like Blizzard does. They can manipulte teh numbers by having sales overseas.

    Overseas players are still players. Most games are trying to reach that overseas market so get used to it. 

    Lower the hourly cost enough and suddenly subs 'rise'. But did they really? no.

    Yes because those are people subscribing who wouldn't have before. 

    The only subs that matter are the ones that generate significant revenue for the company. The asian subs are just noise.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/8216/WoWs-Subscribers-Are-Up-Maybe.html

     

    Its not some crackpoint theory to point out that guys paying pennies on the hour shouldn't be tossed in with guys forced to pay $15 bucks a month.

    Compared to the way other games NEVER share their subscriber numbers I'd say WOW is far more open than others. But since you think WOW is "cooking" the numbers who would you say is the top MMO right now? Give us a name and give us facts to back your argument. 

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • PurutzilPurutzil Member UncommonPosts: 3,048
    Expansions tend to do it... particularly offering free character levels for preordering and all. Seems like their attempt to get people to jump back in by 'bribing' them to pay. Much like any big patch (or expansion) expect a spike followed by a nice big drop.
  • sportsfansportsfan Member Posts: 431
    Originally posted by Purutzil
    Expansions tend to do it... particularly offering free character levels for preordering and all. Seems like their attempt to get people to jump back in by 'bribing' them to pay. Much like any big patch (or expansion) expect a spike followed by a nice big drop.

    The problem most of you have is to grasp the true nature of 7.800.000 people who PAY a monthly or hourly fee to just log in and play WoW.

    People talk about these numbers as if they are trivial. A million here, 2 million there ...

    And they ALL paid. 

    Now the truth is that spread over 10 years Blizzard mentioned around 100 million people played or tried the game in one version or another.

    The thing is : that's so massive that this pool of ex/old/present/returning player base is simply mind blowing. 

    OF COURSE this game levels out at some point. Meaning recruited new/old players = leaving players. 

    And for the last 9 months or 3 quarterly reports, there is clearly a leveling out point reached.

    The fact this leveling was even above the 7.5 million active subscriptions simply illustrates what a gigantic mass of paying customers Blizzard has for a 10 year old game.

    It is only natural that this number will NEVER reach under 2 million figures "soon", because the initial reached mass is above 100 million.

    It is all a matter of numbers and most people don 't even grasp that magnitude in a ... PAY monthly/hourly played game.

    Forget 40 million players in free to play games. These numbers mean NOTHING to 7.8 M PAYING subscriptions in revenue value.

    Pay means HEAVELY addicted btw.

  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Member UncommonPosts: 884
    Originally posted by GuyClinch

    "Yep, you figured it out. It's all chinese coffee drinkers paying 1 cent an hour that make up all of WoW's subs. All their subs come from China and all their money comes from magic - that's right it just appears out of nowhere because all the subs are in China for almost no money."

     

    It's around half their subcribers - as they published the numbers in 2010. Of course saying that WoW has 4.0 million US/NA subscribers is less impressive then throwing around the 8 million number - hence the phony numbers. They declare all of this in their statement BTW - the fact that they count these non-subs as subs.

    It makes a billion dollars a year. It makes more money on its cash shop alone than games like GW2 make on their cash shop and box sales. Say whatever you want.....

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • vmopedvmoped Member Posts: 1,708


    Congrats to WoW.  As the perceived leader in the industry (at least in the West), I am glad to see it faring well.  This bodes well for the entire genre.  I just wish they had not removed talent trees honestly.  I like nearly every aspect of the game, but not the reduced customization since launch.  Other than that, I find myself missing the smooth service delivery, many events/festivals, best pet system (combat pets) I have played, huge world, etc...  I keep holding on to the wish that one day we may see a vanilla or BC classic server (Blizzard ran one that is), but until then I have the fond memories!

     

    Cheers!

    MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843
    So WoW gains 200k and GW2 earns 10 million more, hmmm... Something seems fishy... New accounting practices? Enron anyone?
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Originally posted by GuyClinch

    People aren't buttsore - its just that blizzard is being disengenious. Read this months column if you want to understand - I didn't write it but this guy gets it.

    Revenue is falling even with 'numbers' are rising. This is what happens if you play fast and loose with the sub numbers like Blizzard does. They can manipulte teh numbers by having sales overseas. Lower the hourly cost enough and suddenly subs 'rise'. But did they really? no.

    The only subs that matter are the ones that generate significant revenue for the company. The asian subs are just noise.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/8216/WoWs-Subscribers-Are-Up-Maybe.html

     

    Its not some crackpoint theory to point out that guys paying pennies on the hour shouldn't be tossed in with guys forced to pay $15 bucks a month.

    The article is very poor - lots of comments about how poor it is. Essentially accusing Activision Blizzard of securities fraud - which is drivel.

    They say very little about WoW - the report is about their entire portfolio of games. What they do say however is that subs are up 200k compared with 3 months ago - they want to put over the message that WoW subs have stabilised.

    Compared to 12 months ago subs are down - which is doubtless a factor in why earnings are down. They are not suggesting that "subs are up whilst earnings are down".

     

    As for China WoW is operated under licence. Blizzard get a royalty. How much depends on the deal. When Blizzard moved from The9 to NetEase for 2009-2012. No public details but Michael Pratcher, Wedbush, estimated that Blizzard's revenue rose from $50-$55M a year to at least $140M. Sub numbers would be unchanged of course - just a better deal for Blizzard. 2012-2015 is also with NetEase. Again no details but, bottomline, Chinese revenue is not directly linked to subs.

    And if it is anything like $140M a year that's not pennies. And its a sum of money for which Blizzard will do very little as they don't operate the game in China.

  • SmintarSmintar Member UncommonPosts: 214
    With all the Hype that has gone into TESO and I have played in beta TESO still doesn't come close to wow even when wow was launched. I got tired of zoning and loading in TESO the world seem very small after playing LOTRO and WOW and I have come back to play WOW again but whats hard for me is getting thru Pandoria I just don't like it.. The other day they have bought 8 more realms together
  • almalexiusalmalexius Member UncommonPosts: 180

    Well i came back to WoW since a number of years and boy how it's changed/messed up. Apparently it's the way to go but it's just horrible. For instance low level caster don't even lose mana/mp .What's up with that?

    Oh boy how i wish for a version of wow that isn't so dumbed down and robbed of all it's challenges. I would definitely back something like that on KS.

     

    WOW,eq2,Vanguard,WAR,LOTRO,AOC,Rift Aion, SWTOR, TERA.

    Currently playing GW2.

  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO Member UncommonPosts: 1,326
    Originally posted by Rusque
    Originally posted by Latronus

    You might be right but as you said, you are comparing apples to oranges and until actual breakdowns are released, you have a nice theory and that's all.   

    I'm comparing apples to oranges in the sense that I'm grossly grossly overestimating in favor of Asia. I'm using Asia Pacific net revenues instead of just their online subscriptions. So if actual breakdowns came out they would show that Asia is even smaller than my estimates.

    No you're not. Asia net revenue, how many players are that according to your estimates? Probably nowhere near enough. They don't have to pay $15 a month. Actual Asian revenue will be smaller than your estimates, but the number of Asian players probably won't. Not that I care much about the actual numbers. A few million people willing to pay $15 a month and you've got something, but your apples and oranges comparison is really just that.

    imageimage
  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Member UncommonPosts: 2,077
    Originally posted by almalexius

    Well i came back to WoW since a number of years and boy how it's changed/messed up. Apparently it's the way to go but it's just horrible. For instance low level caster don't even lose mana/mp .What's up with that?

    Oh boy how i wish for a version of wow that isn't so dumbed down and robbed of all it's challenges. I would definitely back something like that on KS.

     

    Did I see MP5?

     

    That's 4 years ago since MP5 was a stat. ;)

     

    WoW has changed a lot. Some good, and a lot of it bad (and we'll see maybe worse when WoD comes and Hit/Expertise and Dodge/Parry are also gone as stats). Blizzard is streamlining WoW to match a MOBA, with I guess similar combat features, even.

     

    As they say, the only people can destroy WoW is Blizzard, and no competitor needs to help them at this stage, they're doing a fine job at it on their own.

  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Member UncommonPosts: 2,077
    Originally posted by GuyClinch

    Revenue is falling even with 'numbers' are rising. This is what happens if you play fast and loose with the sub numbers like Blizzard does.

    Are you accusing Blizzard of securities fraud, Guy?

     

    Let's see the evidence. Not opinion. Not idea. Actual evidence.

     

    The numbers are rising probably due to returnees coming back to raise the toons they want to take into WoD (as the pre-leveled option will only be free for 1 character per account). This maybe more apparent in China, because the MoP theme didn't sell well there (as I told Blizzard), and the WoD may as it's not a stereotypical game. But WoD is but filler, as the WotLK is the expansion that was popular both in WC and in WoW, and dragging it's update to the 6th year...Titan better be moving past the Ice Age, if Cata would be next afterwards. Repeating Cata...ah, it's time to save Blizzard from suicide!

  • GuyClinchGuyClinch Member CommonPosts: 485

    Blizzard is not engaging in fraud - they are just counting hourly renters as subscribers. Its like counting people making the minimum wage as middle class. Where are you getting the fraud thing? Blizzard fully discloses their numbers.

    Unemployment is another good example. Its always around 7 or 8 percent. But that's because so many people give up looking for work. The amount of people not working is gigantic.  Just like Obama and other presidents manipulate the economic numbers - its not lying. Its playing with statistics.

  • Kevyne-ShandrisKevyne-Shandris Member UncommonPosts: 2,077
    Originally posted by GuyClinch

    Blizzard is not engaging in fraud - they are just counting hourly renters as subscribers. Its like counting people making the minimum wage as middle class. Where are you getting the fraud thing? Blizzard fully discloses their numbers.

    Unemployment is another good example. Its always around 7 or 8 percent. But that's because so many people give up looking for work. The amount of people not working is gigantic.  Just like Obama and other presidents manipulate the economic numbers - its not lying. Its playing with statistics.

    Blizzard can't fudge the numbers as it's security fraud. Don't you understand that Blizzard can't tweak numbers as it's lying to investors? Playing with those numbers is a crime -- thus, I ask do you have evidence that occurs.

  • ShadoedShadoed Member UncommonPosts: 1,459
    Originally posted by GuyClinch

    Blizzard is not engaging in fraud - they are just counting hourly renters as subscribers. Its like counting people making the minimum wage as middle class. Where are you getting the fraud thing? Blizzard fully discloses their numbers.

    Unemployment is another good example. Its always around 7 or 8 percent. But that's because so many people give up looking for work. The amount of people not working is gigantic.  Just like Obama and other presidents manipulate the economic numbers - its not lying. Its playing with statistics.

    Blizzard have a very clear and transparent definition of what they count in their numbers as a subscriber, you do not accept that definition, that is your problem, not theirs. They define what is within the numbers and report those numbers, clear and simple, no fudging, no playing with the statistics, laid out in plain English (and whatever other languages they publish in).

    It must be Thursday, i never could get the hang of Thursdays.

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