Can someone explain this lack of auction house system to me?

DeserttFoxx

Why does it sound like if i dont join a guild i wont be able to efficiently sell my wares if i decide to craft?

BeansnBread

If you don't join a guild, you will have to sell over trade chat. 

DeserttFoxx

So i am going to have to join some big market oriented guild if i want to make any money. Or sit in town circa 2000 everquest 1 days and spam WTS ********* for hours on end?

 

Talk about 1 step forward 2 steps back. I dont like this idea of guilds run marketplaces and requiring control of pvp points to facilitate this.

 

I dont want to join a guild, i also dont want to be completely broke which is what it sounds like will happen if i  dont join a guild. 

rygard49

Seems to me that they're putting some social interaction back into the trading process. Either you join a guild, or you hawk your wares over general, make deals in whispers, meet other characters face to face.

It's a good thing. You'll get name recognition if you're a quality crafter with the recipes people want. In early DAoC, everyone knew the legendary crafters, and seeing them out in the world was almost like seeing a celebrity.

BeansnBread

Yeah, it's not a system for people that aren't too keen on joining guilds. I'm sure people will defend it by saying it builds community, but the flip side is that it alienates people that prefer not being in giant guilds. 

 

You can be in 5 different guilds though. So potentially you could just use it for selling and then get in another tight guild. I'm really curious to see how all of it works out once this game goes live. Only one and a half months to go.

DeserttFoxx

Originally posted by BeansnBread

Yeah, it's not a system for people that aren't too keen on joining guilds. I'm sure people will defend it by saying it builds community, but the flip side is that it alienates people that prefer not being in giant guilds. 

 

You can be in 5 different guilds though. So potentially you could just use it for selling and then get in another tight guild. I'm really curious to see how all of it works out once this game goes live. Only one and a half months to go.

Yeah it sounds like the linkshell system in final fantasy 14. Joining a bunch of linkshells for specific purposes, which is all fine and dandy, but this is the economy, and it shouldnt be controlled by whatever guild can get their member cap filled first.

 

I guess now i need to join 4 zerg guilds to promote social trade.

iseldiera

Originally posted by rygard49

It's a good thing. You'll get name recognition if you're a quality crafter with the recipes people want. In early DAoC, everyone knew the legendary crafters, and seeing them out in the world was almost like seeing a celebrity.

You are speaking to a generation that does dailies, pvp, raids all without having to leave Orgrimmar for the entire duration of the time they are logged on. They will never understand the feeling you are describing

udon

Originally posted by BeansnBread

Yeah, it's not a system for people that aren't too keen on joining guilds. I'm sure people will defend it by saying it builds community, but the flip side is that it alienates people that prefer not being in giant guilds. 

 

You can be in 5 different guilds though. So potentially you could just use it for selling and then get in another tight guild. I'm really curious to see how all of it works out once this game goes live. Only one and a half months to go.

Two things will really go a long way to making this work.  1.  Being able to be in multiple guilds and 2. having a very high to unlimited guild membership cap.  There is no reason we can't have 1 or 2 small close nit guilds and still be members of alliance or trade guilds.  There is really no downside to people being in these trade guilds as it doesn't affect their ability to play solo, it does't really cost them anything and doesn't limit them being in other guilds.  Even if there are trading costs they shouldn't be higher than what you pay in a AH system today and if a single guild can monopolize the system something isn't implemented right.  At that point it's more you joining a trade channel with their own private store than anything else.

As for the PVP thing again I would hope the system would promote PVP guilds fighting to provide security and keeps for trade skill guilds to operate out of.  This of course will only work if the PVP players need the trades people.  If PVP ends up being self contained with everything needed being earned with points instead of bought there won't be any incentive for the PVP guilds to care other than bragging rights.

It's a interesting system and I think it has some promise but it really is going to depend on how well it and all the affected systems are implemented.  There is potential here for a cool system and also potential for a royal screwup.  We really won't know until after 4/4 which one it ends up being although I'm sure there are a lot of opinions right now that might be passed off as fact.

Wizardry

Originally posted by BeansnBread

Yeah, it's not a system for people that aren't too keen on joining guilds. I'm sure people will defend it by saying it builds community, but the flip side is that it alienates people that prefer not being in giant guilds. 

 

You can be in 5 different guilds though. So potentially you could just use it for selling and then get in another tight guild. I'm really curious to see how all of it works out once this game goes live. Only one and a half months to go.

You basically hit all nails on the head and seems really odd the developer did not see any of the problems.

One ok IF argument is correct and they are trying for interaction,they are eliminating what the other person said that "celebrity" or that known player in your guild because having to hop around 5 different guilds has  more negatives than positives.

I for one do not like players hopping guild to guild,i want to see that loyalty otherwise why have guilds at all,why not just lump everyone into one giant guild if people feel the need for MORE.I want to get to know my guild mates,i don't want them only popping in for selfish reasons ,then they are gone to the next guild.

I think what happened here is somebody in Zeni over thought it and is NOT very good at coming up with good game design,in this case one designed to make for a great economy and pvp and interaction.

1 Whomever came up with this forgets SOME or MANY don't want any part of pvp.

2 Some or MANY don't want a big guild,they want that family oriented guild or one that is mall where people actually become friends and know each other.

3  I want a viable system to sell my wares,designing a game that goes a bit back in time "Fantasy" setting with swords and daggers and shield/s,hard to believe characters would be using a chat system to sell their stuff.yes the guild idea would be realistic but NOT limited to JUST the guild.

What this actually resembles is some sort of shotty barter system,where you might not even be selling but inside a guild what USUALLY happens ,is i scratch your back you scratch mine,hence barter system.

TheDarkrayne

I'm looking forward to playing an MMO without an auction house again. No more simple running to the AH to get those extra crafting mats.. back to good old collecting them yourself. High end stuff will be actually worth something as well since all the unsociables won't be congesting the in game economy automatically.

Crazy_Stick

Well we keep "assuming" that there will be an official trade chat on PC anyway. As a cross platform game the GUI is held back by its simplest play device, console, which intrinsically doesn't add a keyboard for play. If ZOS and Bethesda's claims that console considerations come first for them (thanks to sales) in the current age one has to wonder how interpersonal trade in voice chat is going to work on the larger scale. Most people will find voice a necessity for coordination and play anyway. Are personal trades such a potential annoyance that the crafters may as well accept only being able to sell their goods through their own guild? If so, with the focus on encouraging and rewarding larger guilds, will there be room in a guild for everyone to share a piece of the market pie? You and joe bob may be friends but if he is undercutting your sales to get his mount and more and you can't as a result then are you going to be his bud for long?  Its the kinds of questions that will define a crafters value in game, nice perk system or not.

superconducting

Actually, it had already been confirmed that you do NOT have to be a member of a guild to access the guild store. I don't know how it work exactly (the guild has to allow non-member trading?) but I know it is possible.

"If you don’t want to be a member, there are locations you can go to in the world where you access certain guild’s stores, that choose to put them up there. If you want to, there are options to take advantage of different markets being created for different things."

 

Sources:

http://elderscrollsotr.mymiddleearth.com/2013/09/24/interview-nick-konkle-and-walking-the-fine-line-with-eso/

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Guilds_%28Online%29#cite_note-2

isanderSWG

Originally posted by superconducting

Actually, it had already been confirmed that you do NOT have to be a member of a guild to access the guild store. I don't know how it work exactly (the guild has to allow non-member trading?) but I know it is possible.

"If you don’t want to be a member, there are locations you can go to in the world where you access certain guild’s stores, that choose to put them up there. If you want to, there are options to take advantage of different markets being created for different things."

 

Sources:

http://elderscrollsotr.mymiddleearth.com/2013/09/24/interview-nick-konkle-and-walking-the-fine-line-with-eso/

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Guilds_%28Online%29#cite_note-2

The interview sounds like they're hoping to fragment the player economy to create more opportunities for arbitrage.  Since there isn't perfect knowledge that a global auction house provides, if you confine sell/buy prices to the game, that's possible.  Course that just means that you'll have outside buy/sell forums filling in the information gap.

I'm not sure you'll get the trade wars between guilds since as far as we know, you can't control raw mats or skill development.

Or perhaps every guild will work on being self-sufficient so that there is no player economy.

BeansnBread

Originally posted by superconducting

Actually, it had already been confirmed that you do NOT have to be a member of a guild to access the guild store. I don't know how it work exactly (the guild has to allow non-member trading?) but I know it is possible.

"If you don’t want to be a member, there are locations you can go to in the world where you access certain guild’s stores, that choose to put them up there. If you want to, there are options to take advantage of different markets being created for different things."

 

Sources:

http://elderscrollsotr.mymiddleearth.com/2013/09/24/interview-nick-konkle-and-walking-the-fine-line-with-eso/

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Guilds_%28Online%29#cite_note-2

I understood that to mean that you can BUY from their guild stores, not actually put stuff up in them. Everything else I've read also shows that you need to be a guild to sell in a guild store. It would be strange if this is not the case as a single guild could potentially become an actual auction house (which they were apparently trying to avoid).

bcbully

Why no player shops, Idk...

isanderSWG

Originally posted by bcbully
Why no player shops, Idk...

I think they wanted to flesh out their guild oriented pvp.

RelytDnegel

I am very excited to play ESO in April but I do think that not having a Dungeon Finder or an Auction House is a step in the wrong direction. Both of these tools really just eliminate the more mundane parts of MMOs (spamming to buy/sell and attempt to find groups), but like I said I will be playing anyway.

Hanthos

As long as it's the first nail in the coffin of global AH's, I'm down with trying it.

superconducting

Originally posted by BeansnBread

Originally posted by superconducting

Actually, it had already been confirmed that you do NOT have to be a member of a guild to access the guild store. I don't know how it work exactly (the guild has to allow non-member trading?) but I know it is possible.

"If you don’t want to be a member, there are locations you can go to in the world where you access certain guild’s stores, that choose to put them up there. If you want to, there are options to take advantage of different markets being created for different things."

 

Sources:

http://elderscrollsotr.mymiddleearth.com/2013/09/24/interview-nick-konkle-and-walking-the-fine-line-with-eso/

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Guilds_%28Online%29#cite_note-2

I understood that to mean that you can BUY from their guild stores, not actually put stuff up in them. Everything else I've read also shows that you need to be a guild to sell in a guild store. It would be strange if this is not the case as a single guild could potentially become an actual auction house (which they were apparently trying to avoid).

I think it would be safe to think of it like a "local community store" that everyone in that particular location can participate in (that is, if it is allowed by the store owner which is the guild). That's the way I understood it at least.

It is not an auction house in the sense that items cannot be traded remotely over distances, and there is no bidding (prices are fixed).

BeansnBread

Originally posted by superconducting

Originally posted by BeansnBread

I understood that to mean that you can BUY from their guild stores, not actually put stuff up in them. Everything else I've read also shows that you need to be a guild to sell in a guild store. It would be strange if this is not the case as a single guild could potentially become an actual auction house (which they were apparently trying to avoid).

I think it would be safe to think of it like a "local community store" that everyone in that particular location can participate in (that is, if it is allowed by the store owner which is the guild). That's the way I understood it at least.

It is not an auction house in the sense that items cannot be traded remotely over distances, and there is no bidding (prices are fixed).

I'm not really interested in the semantics of whether someone calls it an auction house or a guild store or whatever. I'm fine with it not being an auction house.

 

We have different interpretations of what has been described though. Everything I've read says that you can only open up the buying portion to people outside of the guild. Selling your items in a guild store requires that you be part of the actual guild. I guess we'll have to wait for more detailed information on it since the answer was so vague and easily left to interpretation.

superconducting

Originally posted by BeansnBread

Originally posted by superconducting

Originally posted by BeansnBread

I understood that to mean that you can BUY from their guild stores, not actually put stuff up in them. Everything else I've read also shows that you need to be a guild to sell in a guild store. It would be strange if this is not the case as a single guild could potentially become an actual auction house (which they were apparently trying to avoid).

I think it would be safe to think of it like a "local community store" that everyone in that particular location can participate in (that is, if it is allowed by the store owner which is the guild). That's the way I understood it at least.

It is not an auction house in the sense that items cannot be traded remotely over distances, and there is no bidding (prices are fixed).

I'm not really interested in the semantics of whether someone calls it an auction house or a guild store or whatever. I'm fine with it not being an auction house.

 

We have different interpretations of what has been described though. Everything I've read says that you can only open up the buying portion to people outside of the guild. Selling your items in a guild store requires that you be part of the actual guild. I guess we'll have to wait for more detailed information on it since the answer was so vague and easily left to interpretation.

Yep, we don't know the answer to that. Guess we'll have to wait to find out...

mcrippins

Oh how I will miss the days of sitting for hours on end staring at an auction house window, and watching my fellow players do the same. Teehee!

Gestankfaust

Originally posted by iseldiera

Originally posted by rygard49

It's a good thing. You'll get name recognition if you're a quality crafter with the recipes people want. In early DAoC, everyone knew the legendary crafters, and seeing them out in the world was almost like seeing a celebrity.

You are speaking to a generation that does dailies, pvp, raids all without having to leave Orgrimmar for the entire duration of the time they are logged on. They will never understand the feeling you are describing

No you aren't....this generation knows nothing of Orgrimmar. Only those who hang on to old values and that way of life do. Stop acting like WoW still has influence...

Acidon

Originally posted by iseldiera

Originally posted by rygard49

It's a good thing. You'll get name recognition if you're a quality crafter with the recipes people want. In early DAoC, everyone knew the legendary crafters, and seeing them out in the world was almost like seeing a celebrity.

You are speaking to a generation that does dailies, pvp, raids all without having to leave Orgrimmar for the entire duration of the time they are logged on. They will never understand the feeling you are describing

This rang so true it made me sad in the feels.  Deep in the feels.

 

Gestankfaust

Originally posted by Tierless

 

---

Originally posted by iseldiera

---

Originally posted by rygard49 It's a good thing. You'll get name recognition if you're a quality crafter with the recipes people want. In early DAoC, everyone knew the legendary crafters, and seeing them out in the world was almost like seeing a celebrity.

---

You are speaking to a generation that does dailies, pvp, raids all without having to leave Orgrimmar for the entire duration of the time they are logged on. They will never understand the feeling you are describing

---

 

Sad but true. In SWG the best crafters were legends.

Originally posted by Acidon

Originally posted by iseldiera

Originally posted by rygard49

It's a good thing. You'll get name recognition if you're a quality crafter with the recipes people want. In early DAoC, everyone knew the legendary crafters, and seeing them out in the world was almost like seeing a celebrity.

You are speaking to a generation that does dailies, pvp, raids all without having to leave Orgrimmar for the entire duration of the time they are logged on. They will never understand the feeling you are describing

This rang so true it made me sad in the feels.  Deep in the feels.

 

I left WoW a long time ago...guess that's the difference. To see a couple ppl actually say they miss WoW crafting? Just odd to me.

Still...generation? Get over yourselves....I have been here the whole time. WoW has never been know as the crafting game mecca....sorry

Arataki

Originally posted by Wizardry

Originally posted by BeansnBread

Yeah, it's not a system for people that aren't too keen on joining guilds. I'm sure people will defend it by saying it builds community, but the flip side is that it alienates people that prefer not being in giant guilds. 

 

You can be in 5 different guilds though. So potentially you could just use it for selling and then get in another tight guild. I'm really curious to see how all of it works out once this game goes live. Only one and a half months to go.

You basically hit all nails on the head and seems really odd the developer did not see any of the problems.

One ok IF argument is correct and they are trying for interaction,they are eliminating what the other person said that "celebrity" or that known player in your guild because having to hop around 5 different guilds has  more negatives than positives.

I for one do not like players hopping guild to guild,i want to see that loyalty otherwise why have guilds at all,why not just lump everyone into one giant guild if people feel the need for MORE.I want to get to know my guild mates,i don't want them only popping in for selfish reasons ,then they are gone to the next guild.

I think what happened here is somebody in Zeni over thought it and is NOT very good at coming up with good game design,in this case one designed to make for a great economy and pvp and interaction.

1 Whomever came up with this forgets SOME or MANY don't want any part of pvp.

2 Some or MANY don't want a big guild,they want that family oriented guild or one that is mall where people actually become friends and know each other.

3  I want a viable system to sell my wares,designing a game that goes a bit back in time "Fantasy" setting with swords and daggers and shield/s,hard to believe characters would be using a chat system to sell their stuff.yes the guild idea would be realistic but NOT limited to JUST the guild.

What this actually resembles is some sort of shotty barter system,where you might not even be selling but inside a guild what USUALLY happens ,is i scratch your back you scratch mine,hence barter system.

Um, regarding your points...have you considered that they made a game for a certain audience and those that fall into point 1 aren't who the game is intended for?