Originally posted by Cliff1963 Oh, come on, insanely priced? Based on the first 20 levels? I know when I started Playing WOW I had trouble earning the gold to buy a mount when I could... not being the best trader at the AH. I didn't hear anyone complaining then, it's just a part of the game.
That has already been touched on in this thread I will let their answers prove you wrong and also there is no AH in this game for you to use to make money.
Well, sorry i didn't read the 46 pages of obviously usefull comments....
You didn't miss much. And every guild gets it's own AH, so as long as at least one of the five guilds you join is large, you should be able to find people to sell to, so the poster you quote is just flat out incorrect.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by Horusra What big name game around has no cash shop?
What big name game has said for months before release there would be no cash shop, only to turn around with 3 weeks remaining and announce a cash shop?
The existence of the cash shop is less insulting than the months of lying before.
are you 100% honest? Have you never told a lie? Have you never changed your mind? Has you mind ever been changed? Do you expect everyone to be perfect?
Everyone is doing it therefore it is ok.
Got it.
Now all we require is a poll asking "If ESO had no cash shop would that bother you?" Only then can we confirm whether or not a cash shop in ESO was a good business decision. Of course we'd have to get more than just folks visiting this form to complete both this current pole and that one. Overall, I doubt the cash shop will stop ESO from being profitable. Ya know, it being a cash shop and all . I've seen 1 billion too many posts in my lifetime loaded with doom singing "I hate this feature I'm out" yet that very MMORPG being bawled over continues to make money. Could they (those FTP & P2P) make more money? Probably. It all comes down to what information was used leading up to the business decision. Apparently Zenimax has data showing that they'd both provide a better service & make the most money with a cash shop.
Anyone know how well FFXIV ARR is doing as for as profits in comparison to other MMORPG's in the same market (with differnt business models)? That's something that needs to be looked at, because something is telling the industry cash shops are the way to go.
Wonder bread <-- I like saying something random at the end of my posts.
That is entirely fair. Regardless of what anyone thinks of the substantive merits of their decisions, their PR/Marketing has been bargain basement terri-bad, they need to tar and feather that whole team and run them out of town.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
That is entirely fair. Regardless of what anyone thinks of the substantive merits of their decisions, their PR/Marketing has been bargain basement terri-bad, they need to tar and feather that whole team and run them out of town.
Agreed, even without the issues to do with the controversial things like Imperials and cash shop, it has easily been the weakest marketing / PR campaign I have ever seen for a big AAA mmo.
Agreed, even without the issues to do with the controversial things like Imperials and cash shop, it has easily been the weakest marketing / PR campaign I have ever seen for a big AAA mmo.
That ironically might show they have some actual integrity. The game is borderline trash. Its cookie cutter MMO and a mix of ES games mixed it. It does both bad and neither good. The performance of the game is complete garbage. There are still the same bugs popping up even after they claimed this patch fixed 'thousands'.
They have a cash shop AND they have a pop up window every time youlaunch the game making sure you dont forget to pre order. Which I am sure will be turned into a pop up window telling you to upgrade to Imperial or maybe even a 'visit the cash shop' pop up eventually.
These are all Micky Mouse tactics free to play games use. Except this game costs 80 bucks and has a sub.
There is no way anyone can defend this, comparing to to World of Warcraft is the stupidest thing I ever heard. But its the go to I guess.
ZoS knows full well theyre gong free to play the frst chance they get. How long that is will be entirely up to the fanboys who sub month to month, could be 6 months could be Christmas. I doubt even if they have a lot of subscribers they go past that time frame. Theyll just offer a hybrid model. But the cash shop is going to be a full fledged thing in this game sub or not. Its pretty obvious.
So the fact theyre not trying to sell the game shows they know it aint much, and they know its going to be what it should have been at launch Buy to pay or outright free to play.
Originally posted by Bossalinie So are you going to play ESO or not?
Once they reduce the box price and it goes buy to play I might. Or if it goes right to free to play. Even then I am not positive it is worth it unless they do a lot of fixes. I surely wont pay 80 for it and pay a sub.
Didn't they recently state they wouldn't have a cash shop? Why the deception?
First they say you won't have to pay for content because of the subscription fee, then they lock the Imperial race behind a paywall. Second they say there'll be no cash shop. Lo and behold suddenly there's a cash shop.
It's not even about the dumb mount but a little honesty from game developers would be refreshing.
So, it starts before launch with a horse and a race. From my perspective it's pretty clear they are already preparing for going free to play at some point while grabbing as much cash during the launch hype train as they can. This really shouldn't surprise anyone based on their observed reactions to feedback so far. Contact with the player based rattled some confidence. The in game cash shop goes against what was stated as their aim with a subscription no matter how you paint it. If they were truly confident in the games sub potential right now then the cash shop wouldn't be there. It is what it is and a few months from now, Casino business model here we come. I take no pleasure in writing that either.
Didn't they recently state they wouldn't have a cash shop? Why the deception?
First they say you won't have to pay for content because of the subscription fee, then they lock the Imperial race behind a paywall. Second they say there'll be no cash shop. Lo and behold suddenly there's a cash shop.
It's not even about the dumb mount but a little honesty from game developers would be refreshing.
That's the kicker, and why this is a big deal for some people. Matt made a pretty long song and dance about comparing F2P/Cash Shop and sub models, saying they weren't going to be like that, and it all ended up where it is now at just when ESO is going to launch. Part of me wants to believe that he has absolutely no control over monetization and financials, which could be the case, and he is just a puppet mouthpiece. The unfortunate reality is that he's been singing his siren song to lure in the wallet bearing players with promises, somewhat like GW2 did with their manifesto. People bought that schtick as well and got burnt when it was tossed in the fire.
Originally posted by Crazy_Stick So, it starts before launch with a horse and a race. From my perspective it's pretty clear they are already preparing for going free to play at some point while grabbing as much cash during the launch hype train as they can. This really shouldn't surprise anyone based on their observed reactions to feedback so far. Contact with the player based rattled some confidence. The in game cash shop goes against what was stated as their aim with a subscription no matter how you paint it. If they were truly confident in the games sub potential right now then the cash shop wouldn't be there. It is what it is and a few months from now, Casino business model here we come. I take no pleasure in writing that either.
Yeah. The horse right now is an experiment to see how many people use the Cash Shop to make that purchase. If they hit their projected mark that indicates a success, it'll completely green light developing it further. Considering the potential added income, I don't think they'll wait too long before new items start dribbling in. After people get used to it, it'll be full steam ahead.
I think it's sad that we've come to a point with sub based MMORPGs where we (the gamer) aren't even surprised anymore that there's a cashshop next to the sub and box. In my opinion ESO did everything wrong what could possibly be wrong in terms of monetizing of their game. Again, my opinion of course.
Originally posted by causs I think it's sad that we've come to a point with sub based MMORPGs where we (the gamer) aren't even surprised anymore that there's a cashshop next to the sub and box. In my opinion ESO did everything wrong what could possibly be wrong in terms of monetizing of their game. Again, my opinion of course.
I can easily imagine greedier models, but they are certainly sliding down that slope.
Originally posted by Vannor As long as horses are easily obtainable in game (which they are), I don't give a flying f*ck.
Define "easy". What I see is that you can put money towards an item that confers advantages in game.
For argument's sake, between a lvl1 players with $20 and a lvl 1 player with $0, the one with $0 is going to level slower, go from quest to quest slower, etc.
This, speeding up the levelling process, is by stretching it a little akin to having an XP boost. Thus the cash shop is not cosmetic only and actually provides "advantages" in game to a player who has no money to spend.
And keep in mind we are talking about a P2P game, the supposedly "honest/pure model".
All I am really saying here is that people need to stop believing that "P2P = honest", it's the same crap as B2P/F2P (to a lesser extent ofc), except that they steal money from your account every month on top of that.
Anyone who says that P2P games studios will try to please the player more than other models is clearly deluded. They will try to get your money as much as the rest, and you only marginally protected by the fact that the payment model is P2P.
Originally posted by Horusra What big name game around has no cash shop?
What big name game has said for months before release there would be no cash shop, only to turn around with 3 weeks remaining and announce a cash shop?
The existence of the cash shop is less insulting than the months of lying before.
are you 100% honest? Have you never told a lie? Have you never changed your mind? Has you mind ever been changed? Do you expect everyone to be perfect?
There's a difference between me, an individual, and a company selling a product. If you don't understand the difference between the two as it applies to this situation, I don't know that I really need to continue discussing this with you, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. In case there's any confusion, it's not okay for companies to lie.
If they just changed their mind, where was the explanation about how they came to that new conclusion? I would have loved to have read their reasoning, if it was presented logically. Even if I didn't agree with it, I could at least point to that and say, Okay fine we just differ in opinion for what the game needs.
We didn't get that, however. What we got was a cash shop mentioned in an interview, followed by a redaction and assurance that there would no cash shop, followed by another interview weeks before launch with details of their cash shop (which, by the way, doesn't have any of the services they had mentioned in any of their previous interviews).
Originally posted by Vannor As long as horses are easily obtainable in game (which they are), I don't give a flying f*ck.
Unfortunately, there are more people like you who just don't care and will let a gaming company do whatever they want. For the rest of us, they are answerable to their redaction of the platform they sold this game on. While I do not really expect Matt Fior to explain this 180, I have the choice to not invest in ESO rather than taking the position of simply "not giving a f*ck*.
Originally posted by Vannor As long as horses are easily obtainable in game (which they are), I don't give a flying f*ck.
Unfortunately, there are more people like you who just don't care and will let a gaming company do whatever they want. For the rest of us, they are answerable to their redaction of the platform they sold this game on. While I do not really expect Matt Fior to explain this 180, I have the choice to not invest in ESO rather than taking the position of simply "not giving a f*ck*.
Unfortunate for those who care. Not at all unfortunate for what appears to be the vast majority who couldn't care less whether they sell a horse, or whether they "lied" about selling a horse. (Yes, using quotes, still no evidence that this isn't a simple case of changing their minds.)
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Why do people keep pretending this cash shop is only ever going to sell a horse.
You do get that very shortly it will be selling all manner of in game items, mounts and consumables right? Probably even gambling boxes right?
You do get that simply sticking new items in the cash shop instead of adding new quests and actual content will harm the game...right?
I'm not pretending any such thing. You do get that people who purchase things from the shop will likely spend enough money to more than make up for any people who refuse to play the game because the cash shop exists, right?
And you are presenting a false dichotomy. Sticking items in the cash shop doesn't prevent a developer from adding actual content. In fact, a developer must continue to add actual content, because that is how you get people to stick around so that they are still in the game to spend when more things are added to the cash shop.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Yes and once the focus of the majority of content updates becomes adding items to the cash shop, actual content will become things like dailies. This IP deserves better than that imo.
I think it will probably depend largely on the number of subscribers. The smaller the playerbase gets, the more they will focus on milking the ones they have. If they manage to be the first post-WoW MMO to actually sustain subscriber numbers above a million, we will probably see lots of "real" content updates. If you look at the world map, there is as much or more landmass not accessible yet in the game as we have currently implemented.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Why do people keep pretending this cash shop is only ever going to sell a horse.
You do get that very shortly it will be selling all manner of in game items, mounts and consumables right? Probably even gambling boxes right?
You do get that simply sticking new items in the cash shop instead of adding new quests and actual content will harm the game...right?
I'm not pretending any such thing. You do get that people who purchase things from the shop will likely spend enough money to more than make up for any people who refuse to play the game because the cash shop exists, right?
And you are presenting a false dichotomy. Sticking items in the cash shop doesn't prevent a developer from adding actual content. In fact, a developer must continue to add actual content, because that is how you get people to stick around so that they are still in the game to spend when more things are added to the cash shop.
Hey look! A F2P game!
I thought ESO was a p2p ... obviously i was wrong.
Unfortunate for those who care. Not at all unfortunate for what appears to be the vast majority who couldn't care less whether they sell a horse, or whether they "lied" about selling a horse. (Yes, using quotes, still no evidence that this isn't a simple case of changing their minds.)
This isn't about those who are ignorant of what has happened, it's about those who know what happened here. Yeah of course the majority who don't read forums or keep up with current events will be ignorant of these proceedings, in turn they will not care about something they know nothing about. However no one likes being lied to, especially when those words part dollars from your wallet.
Anyway is there a reason you have responded in such a way to just about everyone who has had a problem with this turn of events? People are making noise about an unethical action, here you are trying to quiet that noise. Why? It makes no sense, it's stuff like this that even fans ( I am one) should care about, as only the fans will feel the burn if they keep making decisions like that. As it will hurt the game more than it will hurt anything else.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If the horse is account bound and unable to be gifted to someone else then it is fine. Otherwise I foresee people selling horses for gold to get an edge....
Comments
You didn't miss much. And every guild gets it's own AH, so as long as at least one of the five guilds you join is large, you should be able to find people to sell to, so the poster you quote is just flat out incorrect.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Everyone is doing it therefore it is ok.
Got it.
Now all we require is a poll asking "If ESO had no cash shop would that bother you?" Only then can we confirm whether or not a cash shop in ESO was a good business decision. Of course we'd have to get more than just folks visiting this form to complete both this current pole and that one. Overall, I doubt the cash shop will stop ESO from being profitable. Ya know, it being a cash shop and all
. I've seen 1 billion too many posts in my lifetime loaded with doom singing "I hate this feature I'm out" yet that very MMORPG being bawled over continues to make money. Could they (those FTP & P2P) make more money? Probably. It all comes down to what information was used leading up to the business decision. Apparently Zenimax has data showing that they'd both provide a better service & make the most money with a cash shop.
Anyone know how well FFXIV ARR is doing as for as profits in comparison to other MMORPG's in the same market (with differnt business models)? That's something that needs to be looked at, because something is telling the industry cash shops are the way to go.
Wonder bread <-- I like saying something random at the end of my posts.
In my opinion, they lost their integrity when they sell the Imperial edition.
I think ESO should just fire their marketing guy.
They should have sell Imperial Race or any cash shop item, 6 month after the game launch.
Right now, it seems like they are just doing money grab before they turn to F2P.
Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language
That is entirely fair. Regardless of what anyone thinks of the substantive merits of their decisions, their PR/Marketing has been bargain basement terri-bad, they need to tar and feather that whole team and run them out of town.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Agreed, even without the issues to do with the controversial things like Imperials and cash shop, it has easily been the weakest marketing / PR campaign I have ever seen for a big AAA mmo.
That ironically might show they have some actual integrity. The game is borderline trash. Its cookie cutter MMO and a mix of ES games mixed it. It does both bad and neither good. The performance of the game is complete garbage. There are still the same bugs popping up even after they claimed this patch fixed 'thousands'.
They have a cash shop AND they have a pop up window every time youlaunch the game making sure you dont forget to pre order. Which I am sure will be turned into a pop up window telling you to upgrade to Imperial or maybe even a 'visit the cash shop' pop up eventually.
These are all Micky Mouse tactics free to play games use. Except this game costs 80 bucks and has a sub.
There is no way anyone can defend this, comparing to to World of Warcraft is the stupidest thing I ever heard. But its the go to I guess.
ZoS knows full well theyre gong free to play the frst chance they get. How long that is will be entirely up to the fanboys who sub month to month, could be 6 months could be Christmas. I doubt even if they have a lot of subscribers they go past that time frame. Theyll just offer a hybrid model. But the cash shop is going to be a full fledged thing in this game sub or not. Its pretty obvious.
So the fact theyre not trying to sell the game shows they know it aint much, and they know its going to be what it should have been at launch Buy to pay or outright free to play.
Once they reduce the box price and it goes buy to play I might. Or if it goes right to free to play. Even then I am not positive it is worth it unless they do a lot of fixes. I surely wont pay 80 for it and pay a sub.
Didn't they recently state they wouldn't have a cash shop? Why the deception?
First they say you won't have to pay for content because of the subscription fee, then they lock the Imperial race behind a paywall.
Second they say there'll be no cash shop. Lo and behold suddenly there's a cash shop.
It's not even about the dumb mount but a little honesty from game developers would be refreshing.
Define "easy". What I see is that you can put money towards an item that confers advantages in game.
For argument's sake, between a lvl1 players with $20 and a lvl 1 player with $0, the one with $0 is going to level slower, go from quest to quest slower, etc.
This, speeding up the levelling process, is by stretching it a little akin to having an XP boost. Thus the cash shop is not cosmetic only and actually provides "advantages" in game to a player who has no money to spend.
And keep in mind we are talking about a P2P game, the supposedly "honest/pure model".
All I am really saying here is that people need to stop believing that "P2P = honest", it's the same crap as B2P/F2P (to a lesser extent ofc), except that they steal money from your account every month on top of that.
Anyone who says that P2P games studios will try to please the player more than other models is clearly deluded. They will try to get your money as much as the rest, and you only marginally protected by the fact that the payment model is P2P.
There's a difference between me, an individual, and a company selling a product. If you don't understand the difference between the two as it applies to this situation, I don't know that I really need to continue discussing this with you, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. In case there's any confusion, it's not okay for companies to lie.
If they just changed their mind, where was the explanation about how they came to that new conclusion? I would have loved to have read their reasoning, if it was presented logically. Even if I didn't agree with it, I could at least point to that and say, Okay fine we just differ in opinion for what the game needs.
We didn't get that, however. What we got was a cash shop mentioned in an interview, followed by a redaction and assurance that there would no cash shop, followed by another interview weeks before launch with details of their cash shop (which, by the way, doesn't have any of the services they had mentioned in any of their previous interviews).
Unfortunately, there are more people like you who just don't care and will let a gaming company do whatever they want. For the rest of us, they are answerable to their redaction of the platform they sold this game on. While I do not really expect Matt Fior to explain this 180, I have the choice to not invest in ESO rather than taking the position of simply "not giving a f*ck*.
Unfortunate for those who care. Not at all unfortunate for what appears to be the vast majority who couldn't care less whether they sell a horse, or whether they "lied" about selling a horse. (Yes, using quotes, still no evidence that this isn't a simple case of changing their minds.)
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
I'm not pretending any such thing. You do get that people who purchase things from the shop will likely spend enough money to more than make up for any people who refuse to play the game because the cash shop exists, right?
And you are presenting a false dichotomy. Sticking items in the cash shop doesn't prevent a developer from adding actual content. In fact, a developer must continue to add actual content, because that is how you get people to stick around so that they are still in the game to spend when more things are added to the cash shop.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
I think it will probably depend largely on the number of subscribers. The smaller the playerbase gets, the more they will focus on milking the ones they have. If they manage to be the first post-WoW MMO to actually sustain subscriber numbers above a million, we will probably see lots of "real" content updates. If you look at the world map, there is as much or more landmass not accessible yet in the game as we have currently implemented.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Hey look! A F2P game!
I thought ESO was a p2p ... obviously i was wrong.
Witty & Wicked
This isn't about those who are ignorant of what has happened, it's about those who know what happened here. Yeah of course the majority who don't read forums or keep up with current events will be ignorant of these proceedings, in turn they will not care about something they know nothing about. However no one likes being lied to, especially when those words part dollars from your wallet.
Anyway is there a reason you have responded in such a way to just about everyone who has had a problem with this turn of events? People are making noise about an unethical action, here you are trying to quiet that noise. Why? It makes no sense, it's stuff like this that even fans ( I am one) should care about, as only the fans will feel the burn if they keep making decisions like that. As it will hurt the game more than it will hurt anything else.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
the game...to "me" is just not good enough to have a cash shop and a sub.
one or the other would be OK