I don't care about cash shops as long as the things other people do, do not effect me. Which this, does not. No paywall exists and it can hardly be called pay to advance due to being able to afford a horse within 20 hours of playing the game.
People who are bitching about this just want to trash around like a self centered teenager embarrassing themselves.
I don't care about cash shops as long as the things other people do, do not effect me. Which this, does not. No paywall exists and it can hardly be called pay to advance due to being able to afford a horse within 20 hours of playing the game.
People who are bitching about this just want to trash around like a self centered teenager embarrassing themselves.
I don't care about cash shops either, I'm happy to see any game I like making more money. What I don't like is companies making horrible decisions concerning games I do like. Flip-flopping shows a lack of integrity and commitment to your own words, something an embarrassing teenager would do, not a working professional with standards and ethics.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
WoW mounts cost very little gold in-game - it's more like a skin that Blizzard sells in their cash shop. It's purely cosmetic. The Training costs in WoW is the only considerable barrier to being mounted, and you can't buy that on the store. Lets also not forget that the majority of folks playing WoW have max level characters at this point. It's just not a mechanical consideration anymore.
TESO mounts can be used as early as level 1, and since mounts require feeding to get better, that gives everyone with a purchased mount a time-advantage when it comes to progressing their mount. At best, it's paying to gain a mechanical advantage in a subscription-based, pay to play game. At worst, you can make a compelling case for Pay to Win, as dedicated PvPers with their cash-shop purchased mounts will have an edge in Cyrridell until players can afford the 40-42k mount, since buying the 17k mount will have to be done much later than the ones who just start with the mount and get to build it up in the meantime.
In a word, it was a very poor decision on Zenimax's part and - based on how many people have said they were going to buy but now won't because of this cash shop - it will cost them more than gain them.
I wanna know why this has just come up now. Tons of games include mounts in preorder or special editions. ESO was one of these.. you have been able to BUY a mount since sales went up.
After the first 20 hours of gameplay it won't even matter.. it will then be a purely cosmetic option.
As for levelling faster with the mount.. well, there's instant travel in the game anyway and someone getting to a quest location, what? 30% or 40% faster than someone else is hardly any difference at all. We are literally talking about seconds here.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
This isn't about those who are ignorant of what has happened, it's about those who know what happened here. Yeah of course the majority who don't read forums or keep up with current events will be ignorant of these proceedings, in turn they will not care about something they know nothing about. However no one likes being lied to, especially when those words part dollars from your wallet.
Anyway is there a reason you have responded in such a way to just about everyone who has had a problem with this turn of events? People are making noise about an unethical action, here you are trying to quiet that noise. Why? It makes no sense, it's stuff like this that even fans ( I am one) should care about, as only the fans will feel the burn if they keep making decisions like that. As it will hurt the game more than it will hurt anything else.
Who said anything about ignorance? I didn't say "don't know," I said "don't care." And nobody has lost any money here, don't dramatize. Pre-orders can still be cancelled, pre-purchases can still be refunded.
And people are just making noise. There is no evidence of any "unethical" actions. I actually don't care how much noise people make, I would just prefer they stop using words that don't fit the situation while doing so. There is no evidence that anybody actually lied; like I've said a ton of times already, in order to be a lie they have to have not meant it when they said it, and unless you have some internal e-mails that have leaked demonstrating some nefarious plan to trick people, all these accusations of lying are nothing but libel. As for ethics, please. It's not unethical to change the revenue model of a game, especially not when it hasn't even launched yet.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
WoW mounts cost very little gold in-game - it's more like a skin that Blizzard sells in their cash shop. It's purely cosmetic. The Training costs in WoW is the only considerable barrier to being mounted, and you can't buy that on the store. Lets also not forget that the majority of folks playing WoW have max level characters at this point. It's just not a mechanical consideration anymore.
TESO mounts can be used as early as level 1, and since mounts require feeding to get better, that gives everyone with a purchased mount a time-advantage when it comes to progressing their mount. At best, it's paying to gain a mechanical advantage in a subscription-based, pay to play game. At worst, you can make a compelling case for Pay to Win, as dedicated PvPers with their cash-shop purchased mounts will have an edge in Cyrridell until players can afford the 40-42k mount, since buying the 17k mount will have to be done much later than the ones who just start with the mount and get to build it up in the meantime.
In a word, it was a very poor decision on Zenimax's part and - based on how many people have said they were going to buy but now won't because of this cash shop - it will cost them more than gain them.
Did you even go to that link there? Wow sells mounts, pets and all kinds of stuff in that store. And they are UNIQUE! Not just some re-colored or re-skinned model. There are crappy mounts no one wants, then there is the epic mounts that go for 100,000 gold. What are you smoking.
You can't get a bat mount in the game, you got it in the store. Yes it's the same exact thing!
As far as pay 2 win, if you think it's unethical, then don't buy it. I agree with you there. But, since I have enough cash lying around I'm going to be speeding through my quests and catching you poor people on my uber fast mount with stability and bag space for a few weeks.
When I'm done you vassal peasants will learn to tremble in fear at the sound of my lord white stallion's hoof's as it romple stomps you into the ground.
As long as it stays as Imperial upgrade and a horse I dont really care about the cash shop but if XP boosts and stuff start entering then we gonna have a problem..
Originally posted by Black-Magic As long as it stays as Imperial upgrade and a horse I dont really care about the cash shop but if XP boosts and stuff start entering then we gonna have a problem..
I think you missed the point here bud. They will have an online store where you can buy mounts. Not just the one you get with the upgraded imperial package. And yes further purchases that give an edge to leveling is a concern. That would be an unfair advantage. It's called "pay 2 win". And in a game where people are paying for a subscription, it is completely inappropriate. It's a rip off.
Only free 2 play games that have NO SUBSCRIPTION should have this model. And having a horse that levels up speed, stability and bag space before everyone else is a small but significant pay 2 win advantage.
In a sense, a faster mount before everyone else (as you can feed your horse everyday to make it faster for example and will be able to do that way before someone that didn't buy one with real cash) is an XP boost. Cause you will be finishing all your quests that much faster. And it has multipliers as your horse levels before those poor people ever earn 17,000 gold to get their first mount.
Thinking back to this thread, makes me want to change my vote to no. I enjoyed the game so much this last weekend, I rather would like to see a Cash Shop in this game, just NOT have it go F2P.
Sub + cash shop would be nice. F2P + cash shop would be horrible
Thinking back to this thread, makes me want to change my vote to no. I enjoyed the game so much this last weekend, I rather would like to see a Cash Shop in this game, just NOT have it go F2P.
Sub + cash shop would be nice. F2P + cash shop would be horrible
I have to say, if they already have a cash shop it looks like they are already planning for a F2P.
Originally posted by Black-Magic As long as it stays as Imperial upgrade and a horse I dont really care about the cash shop but if XP boosts and stuff start entering then we gonna have a problem..
I think you missed the point here bud. They will have an online store where you can buy mounts. Not just the one you get with the upgraded imperial package. And yes further purchases that give an edge to leveling is a concern. That would be an unfair advantage. It's called "pay 2 win". And in a game where people are paying for a subscription, it is completely inappropriate. It's a rip off.
Only free 2 play games that have NO SUBSCRIPTION should have this model. And having a horse that levels up speed, stability and bag space before everyone else is a small but significant pay 2 win advantage.
In a sense, a faster mount before everyone else (as you can feed your horse everyday to make it faster for example and will be able to do that way before someone that didn't buy one with real cash) is an XP boost. Cause you will be finishing all your quests that much faster. And it has multipliers as your horse levels before those poor people ever earn 17,000 gold to get their first mount.
Yes, because mmorpgs are all about being the fastest
In a sense, a faster mount before everyone else (as you can feed your horse everyday to make it faster for example and will be able to do that way before someone that didn't buy one with real cash) is an XP boost. Cause you will be finishing all your quests that much faster. And it has multipliers as your horse levels before those poor people ever earn 17,000 gold to get their first mount.
I didn't even think about the horse feeding. When I left the game I had probably would have made 5k in 3 days of playing selling everything except alchemy mats so it's about 10 days worth of feeding at that rate. (Guild banked some things for others)
That would give it about 10% run speed (+25% total) or 10 slots of storage on your main bag. It's 250 gold for food so toss another 2500 on the grill but that's still cheaper than the 25% horse that starts at 42k gold which you will probably see for sale eventually too lol
You are correct and this whole crap of the horse being sold in the shop even if was for 1$ is totally p2W.
I bought the 17K horse around the 3 days of beta but I had to sell everything, not craft and that was before the introduction of the sell to vendor by 0 of a whole lot of things. Didn't touched PvE content beyond lvl10.
Anyone who buys it will save 17K gold. That will give them an in-game leverage that will allow them to travel between quest points faster, they will have the advantage on crafting because all money made can be funneled into it, etc etc.
Oh well I saw it coming when Firor was basically told to "STFU" by Sage. That was the 1st warning.
The Imperial edition with a race that for lore reasons couldn't be included and the faction lock that was so important to the game philosophies, being thrown out the window for those who drop the cash. 2nd warning
Basic horse hits the game store. 3rd warning
The subtlety of them pressing hard on PR saying the game won't have an in-game store. Yeah it won't be in-game. It will be a website store. Same shit, different flies.
This bothers me i have to say. having the option to buy a horse right from the start seems wrong to me.
Now i have three options,
1. Buy the Imperial edition.
2. Buy a horse from the cashshop for real money.
3. Buy the normal edition and save gold to buy a horse in game (17K in the Beta).
If i choose option 3 does this not put me at a big disavantage to everyone who has opted for 1 or 2. How long will it take me to save the 17k gold to get my first horse. While i'm saving hard for said horse will i be falling behind everyone else with gear and crafting etc? It kind of makes it feel like you HAVE to have that horse now from the start or you will be losing out.
cashshop + subscription just feels wrong, at least in WOW you don't have to use the shop, here it feels like you do or you will be missing out.
I can only laugh realy hard to people who have no problems with studio's launcing a sub based game with cash shop and box price. Its a cash grab and mark my words, that horse is only the start, if you dont see this comming your so naive....
I would have bought ESO if i dint see signs of a cashshop or locking a whole race behind a paywall. This for me means that it goes flat on their face realy fast.
Only Zenimax can see how many payed preorders are out there now, and making last cash grab decisions is a big warning that it isnt meeting their expectations.
A whole damn race behind a collectors edition and people give a standing ovation. By supporting this kind of things you can bet it gets worse and worse. if it would be a free to play mmo then no problems !!! i would buy it !!! But realy ? a box price + Sub + Cash shop ?
Can you see whats comming next ? yes......the imperial race will be in that cash shop within 4 weeks+
Goodluck Zenimax no money from me and ALOT of other people who refuse to support this kind of greed.
Originally posted by zixxian This bothers me i have to say. having the option to buy a horse right from the start seems wrong to me. Now i have three options,1. Buy the Imperial edition.2. Buy a horse from the cashshop for real money.3. Buy the normal edition and save gold to buy a horse in game (17K in the Beta). If i choose option 3 does this not put me at a big disavantage to everyone who has opted for 1 or 2. How long will it take me to save the 17k gold to get my first horse. While i'm saving hard for said horse will i be falling behind everyone else with gear and crafting etc? It kind of makes it feel like you HAVE to have that horse now from the start or you will be losing out.cashshop + subscription just feels wrong, at least in WOW you don't have to use the shop, here it feels like you do or you will be missing out.
I wonder how you deal with fact that there are other players that are higher level than you, have more gold, skill points, w/e...
Imo it is wrong, its wrong in TESO and any other game doing it.
But lets see the good part, this was announced befor release, they didnt wait 2 or 3 months after release and then announce/implemente this shit. Players are aware about this shop befor jump to the game, imo this was a correct attitude.
It annoys me more because the game is just starting up and if i don't buy said horse i may be playing catch up with others who have the horse and will be able to move through the content at a faster rate (and i'm not just talking about the speed of the mount :P), and considering this is suposed to be a sub based game.....well not Silly... frustrating, annoying etc.
Originally posted by zixxian It annoys me more because the game is just starting up and if i don't buy said horse i may be playing catch up with others who have the horse and will be able to move through the content at a faster rate (and i'm not just talking about the speed of the mount :P), and considering this is suposed to be a sub based game.....well not Silly... frustrating, annoying etc.
Yeah, the game should also have a cap on how many hours one can play per week to make sure someone does not advance faster than you...
Of course, the game will be open for 4/4/2014 only and then no one else will be able to join...ever.
Comments
THAT makes sense. I do like cash shops but seems cash shops are more for FTP games.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
I don't care about cash shops as long as the things other people do, do not effect me. Which this, does not. No paywall exists and it can hardly be called pay to advance due to being able to afford a horse within 20 hours of playing the game.
People who are bitching about this just want to trash around like a self centered teenager embarrassing themselves.
I don't care about cash shops either, I'm happy to see any game I like making more money. What I don't like is companies making horrible decisions concerning games I do like. Flip-flopping shows a lack of integrity and commitment to your own words, something an embarrassing teenager would do, not a working professional with standards and ethics.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
WoW made it a standard way to make extra cash.
https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/game/wow?categories=pets%2Cmounts%2Chelms
WoW mounts cost very little gold in-game - it's more like a skin that Blizzard sells in their cash shop. It's purely cosmetic. The Training costs in WoW is the only considerable barrier to being mounted, and you can't buy that on the store. Lets also not forget that the majority of folks playing WoW have max level characters at this point. It's just not a mechanical consideration anymore.
TESO mounts can be used as early as level 1, and since mounts require feeding to get better, that gives everyone with a purchased mount a time-advantage when it comes to progressing their mount. At best, it's paying to gain a mechanical advantage in a subscription-based, pay to play game. At worst, you can make a compelling case for Pay to Win, as dedicated PvPers with their cash-shop purchased mounts will have an edge in Cyrridell until players can afford the 40-42k mount, since buying the 17k mount will have to be done much later than the ones who just start with the mount and get to build it up in the meantime.
In a word, it was a very poor decision on Zenimax's part and - based on how many people have said they were going to buy but now won't because of this cash shop - it will cost them more than gain them.
I wanna know why this has just come up now. Tons of games include mounts in preorder or special editions. ESO was one of these.. you have been able to BUY a mount since sales went up.
After the first 20 hours of gameplay it won't even matter.. it will then be a purely cosmetic option.
As for levelling faster with the mount.. well, there's instant travel in the game anyway and someone getting to a quest location, what? 30% or 40% faster than someone else is hardly any difference at all. We are literally talking about seconds here.
Who said anything about ignorance? I didn't say "don't know," I said "don't care." And nobody has lost any money here, don't dramatize. Pre-orders can still be cancelled, pre-purchases can still be refunded.
And people are just making noise. There is no evidence of any "unethical" actions. I actually don't care how much noise people make, I would just prefer they stop using words that don't fit the situation while doing so. There is no evidence that anybody actually lied; like I've said a ton of times already, in order to be a lie they have to have not meant it when they said it, and unless you have some internal e-mails that have leaked demonstrating some nefarious plan to trick people, all these accusations of lying are nothing but libel. As for ethics, please. It's not unethical to change the revenue model of a game, especially not when it hasn't even launched yet.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Did you even go to that link there? Wow sells mounts, pets and all kinds of stuff in that store. And they are UNIQUE! Not just some re-colored or re-skinned model. There are crappy mounts no one wants, then there is the epic mounts that go for 100,000 gold. What are you smoking.
You can't get a bat mount in the game, you got it in the store. Yes it's the same exact thing!
As far as pay 2 win, if you think it's unethical, then don't buy it. I agree with you there. But, since I have enough cash lying around I'm going to be speeding through my quests and catching you poor people on my uber fast mount with stability and bag space for a few weeks.
When I'm done you vassal peasants will learn to tremble in fear at the sound of my lord white stallion's hoof's as it romple stomps you into the ground.
See you in Cyriidel
I think you missed the point here bud. They will have an online store where you can buy mounts. Not just the one you get with the upgraded imperial package. And yes further purchases that give an edge to leveling is a concern. That would be an unfair advantage. It's called "pay 2 win". And in a game where people are paying for a subscription, it is completely inappropriate. It's a rip off.
Only free 2 play games that have NO SUBSCRIPTION should have this model. And having a horse that levels up speed, stability and bag space before everyone else is a small but significant pay 2 win advantage.
In a sense, a faster mount before everyone else (as you can feed your horse everyday to make it faster for example and will be able to do that way before someone that didn't buy one with real cash) is an XP boost. Cause you will be finishing all your quests that much faster. And it has multipliers as your horse levels before those poor people ever earn 17,000 gold to get their first mount.
Thinking back to this thread, makes me want to change my vote to no. I enjoyed the game so much this last weekend, I rather would like to see a Cash Shop in this game, just NOT have it go F2P.
Sub + cash shop would be nice. F2P + cash shop would be horrible
I have to say, if they already have a cash shop it looks like they are already planning for a F2P.
Yes, because mmorpgs are all about being the fastest
You are correct and this whole crap of the horse being sold in the shop even if was for 1$ is totally p2W.
I bought the 17K horse around the 3 days of beta but I had to sell everything, not craft and that was before the introduction of the sell to vendor by 0 of a whole lot of things. Didn't touched PvE content beyond lvl10.
Anyone who buys it will save 17K gold. That will give them an in-game leverage that will allow them to travel between quest points faster, they will have the advantage on crafting because all money made can be funneled into it, etc etc.
Oh well I saw it coming when Firor was basically told to "STFU" by Sage. That was the 1st warning.
The Imperial edition with a race that for lore reasons couldn't be included and the faction lock that was so important to the game philosophies, being thrown out the window for those who drop the cash. 2nd warning
Basic horse hits the game store. 3rd warning
The subtlety of them pressing hard on PR saying the game won't have an in-game store. Yeah it won't be in-game. It will be a website store. Same shit, different flies.
Since there is nothing wrong with having a cash shop, I wonder what you tried to say there...
This bothers me i have to say. having the option to buy a horse right from the start seems wrong to me.
Now i have three options,
1. Buy the Imperial edition.
2. Buy a horse from the cashshop for real money.
3. Buy the normal edition and save gold to buy a horse in game (17K in the Beta).
If i choose option 3 does this not put me at a big disavantage to everyone who has opted for 1 or 2. How long will it take me to save the 17k gold to get my first horse. While i'm saving hard for said horse will i be falling behind everyone else with gear and crafting etc? It kind of makes it feel like you HAVE to have that horse now from the start or you will be losing out.
cashshop + subscription just feels wrong, at least in WOW you don't have to use the shop, here it feels like you do or you will be missing out.
I can only laugh realy hard to people who have no problems with studio's launcing a sub based game with cash shop and box price.
Its a cash grab and mark my words, that horse is only the start, if you dont see this comming your so naive....
I would have bought ESO if i dint see signs of a cashshop or locking a whole race behind a paywall.
This for me means that it goes flat on their face realy fast.
Only Zenimax can see how many payed preorders are out there now, and making last cash grab decisions is a big warning that it isnt meeting their expectations.
A whole damn race behind a collectors edition and people give a standing ovation.
By supporting this kind of things you can bet it gets worse and worse.
if it would be a free to play mmo then no problems !!! i would buy it !!!
But realy ? a box price + Sub + Cash shop ?
Can you see whats comming next ? yes......the imperial race will be in that cash shop within 4 weeks+
Goodluck Zenimax no money from me and ALOT of other people who refuse to support this kind of greed.
I wonder how you deal with fact that there are other players that are higher level than you, have more gold, skill points, w/e...
Silly...
Imo it is wrong, its wrong in TESO and any other game doing it.
But lets see the good part, this was announced befor release, they didnt wait 2 or 3 months after release and then announce/implemente this shit. Players are aware about this shop befor jump to the game, imo this was a correct attitude.
It annoys me more because the game is just starting up and if i don't buy said horse i may be playing catch up with others who have the horse and will be able to move through the content at a faster rate (and i'm not just talking about the speed of the mount :P), and considering this is suposed to be a sub based game.....well not Silly... frustrating, annoying etc.
Yeah, the game should also have a cap on how many hours one can play per week to make sure someone does not advance faster than you...
Of course, the game will be open for 4/4/2014 only and then no one else will be able to join...ever.
Yes, indeed silly.