We are getting into some pretty sad (and funny) territory here.
Lets break this down shall we?
Why is this ANet's fault? - Gaia / Meow
Cause Anet/NCSoft decided to partner up with a P2W publisher? - Me
Well.....um.... It isn't P2W anyway! - Gaia / Meow
So it is Anet's fault then? And you just moved the goal post? Dye ID for Gems? - Me
What Dye ID for gems? There are only titles! - Gaia / Meow
*Reddit proof link.* So either Mike from Anet is lying or you are. - Me
You are wrong! - Gaia / Meow
/Facepalm - Me
Arenanet doesn't make the decisions. I already said you can blame NCSoft, but so far as partnering with China goes, that's really out of Arenanet's hands.
You were the one who said it was P2W in the FIRST place. You did. You were the original post I responded to. All I ever said was that it didn't really become a P2W cash shop.
I also said 'When you talk about gem ID, are you talking about dyes?', because you originally said gems for some reason. So I was the first person to mention dye IDs in this particular conversation. You can go look that up. You specifically said gem ID and I asked for clarification. :P
I never said anything about titles only. Maybe Gaia did, but I certainly didn't.
I am not actually Gaia, and you can't take statements that BOTH Of us make and attribute it to each other. And yes, you are wrong about it being P2W, and it is silly to blame Arenanet for decisions that are beyond their control. I even said you can blame NCSoft, go for it. They're the people who make the international business decisions, so that'd make sense.
edit: Since you seem to have forgotten, then was what I originally responded to.
Originally posted by jpnz Last I checked gw2 belongs to ncsoft / anet. If they decide to partner with a p2w publisher that's on them.
My two problems with this is that Arenanet has no control over the international marketing of GW2. That is on NCSoft. My other problem was that GW2 isn't P2W in China, though it might have some weird monetization like the dye identification.
See? No moving of my goalposts. I have consistently kept the same stance on everything, and was responding to this original post of yours which wasn't quoting anything. Now we're clear.
My two problems with this is that Arenanet has no control over the international marketing of GW2. That is on NCSoft. My other problem was that GW2 isn't P2W in China, though it might have some weird monetization like the dye identification.
See? No moving of my goalposts. I have consistently kept the same stance on everything, and was responding to this original post of yours which wasn't quoting anything. Now we're clear.
This logic makes no sense.
If we fault a company for associating its IP with another company why does ANet get special treatment?
Getting shouted at by Pro-GW2 posters tends to blur them together. :P
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
If we fault a company for associating its IP with another company why does ANet get special treatment?
Getting shouted at by Pro-GW2 posters tends to blur them together. :P
Because it's not Arenanet's decision to make?
NCSoft owns Arenanet you know. Generally you blame the publisher for the big picture sort of things, especially in a case like this, where it is literally outside of Arenanet's territory.
That's why EA takes a lot of flak, for example, rather than the smaller companies under its aegis.
You blame people for what they're responsible for. It'd be like getting mad at a player on a team for a decision management makes.
I'm not yelling at you! I'm just disagreeing with you. And I can keep you straight from other people, and be civil about it as well. You should try it!
If we fault a company for associating its IP with another company why does ANet get special treatment?
Getting shouted at by Pro-GW2 posters tends to blur them together. :P
Because it's not Arenanet's decision to make?
NCSoft owns Arenanet you know. Generally you blame the publisher for the big picture sort of things, especially in a case like this, where it is literally outside of Arenanet's territory.
That's why EA takes a lot of flak, for example, rather than the smaller companies under its aegis.
You blame people for what they're responsible for. It'd be like getting mad at a player on a team for a decision management makes.
I'm not yelling at you! I'm just disagreeing with you. And I can keep you straight from other people, and be civil about it as well. You should try it!
If one decides to 'blame' NCSoft for associating with Kongzhong, why aren't we blaming ANet for associating with NCsoft?
That's the logic that apparently isn't 'logical'. You want to apply a logic, be consistant; otherwise it comes through as bias.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
If one decides to 'blame' NCSoft for associating with Kongzhong, why aren't we blaming ANet for associating with NCsoft?
That's the logic that apparently isn't 'logical'. You want to apply a logic, be consistant; otherwise it comes through as bias.
Because..... NCSoft owns Arenanet? They always have (or at least for quite a while now) Association isn't really a choice in this case, it's a matter of being owned by their publisher.
I mean, I guess you could blame Arenanet for selling out and getting a publisher (Though it's hard to publish an MMO on your own when you're just a few guys, especially pre-kickstarter days), if you want to do that.
But you can't logically extend that to something that NCSoft does with a Chinese company, several years in the future, unless you're accusing Arenanet of being both poor AND psychic.
And if they could tell the future, they probably wouldn't have been poor.
If you want to blame Arenanet for 'selling out to the man', and then blame the man (NCSoft) for 'associating with the wrong sorts in China' (Though almost all of the MMO companies there have games with varying levels of pay to win), I would find that acceptable logical constructions.
But blaming Arenanet for the Chinese publisher is too much of a leap for me, sorry. I am very consistent, thank you. Like I said, I don't mind if you're lik e'GRRR! Darn you Arenanet, for selling out to NCSoft!' or 'Darn you NCSoft for working with that particular Chinese publisher!', but I just can't stand behind 'Darn you Arenanet for working with that particular Chinese publisher!' because it isn't really a choice on their part. They can't say no.
1. Not going to quote your post as I generally don't like stealing other people's content via copy-paste onto a forum.
2. Did we move the goal post AGAIN?
So we went from 'Not ANet's fault' to 'Not really P2W anyway' to 'It is only titles and not anything else'?
Did you miss the part in his interview where Dye ID's require Gems?
So which is it?
Did Mike lie or was your post about 'titles' not entirely truthful?
So your reason to believe Anet sold their soul to the demon is Dye IDs for account bound dyes in China (without even knowing if there are different ways to acquire those dyes or not)?
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by jpnz Last I checked gw2 belongs to ncsoft / anet. If they decide to partner with a p2w publisher that's on them.
Actually it is not anet or ncsoft's doing. People want GW2 in china and this is the people who offered to run the game. They are the ones who set the rules and if you play ANY China based games you will see that they are all P2W
free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!
Originally posted by jpnz Last I checked gw2 belongs to ncsoft / anet. If they decide to partner with a p2w publisher that's on them.
Actually it is not anet or ncsoft's doing. People want GW2 in china and this is the people who offered to run the game. They are the ones who set the rules and if you play ANY China based games you will see that they are all P2W
Exactly in which way is GW2 China P2W?
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
After we saw how China screwed up WoW with the removal of all bones (including and especially the ones sticking out of undead models, suck as The Forsaken), why exactly are we surprised? I mean it could be worse: they could have stolen the code and made their own ripoff game as they have done with countless others, but honestly, why are we suprised exactly?
Originally posted by Arthasm Is the game really doing bad in West that they trying to milk Chinese players before NCSoft tighten Anet's belt?
No, the game is doing really well in the West, but by Chinese law, any MMO in China must be published and distributed by a Chinese company.
Also, a lot of what was written was misunderstandings.
So you're confused on two different levels. Glad I could straighten that out for you.
You mean people jumped on a bandwagon to attack GW2 before they knew all the facts, even though the OP stated that the source was not 100% trustworthy?
Never happens. NEVER.
Also, who cares? Let the Chinese publisher do what it wants, it's China. Are any of you from China? If so,do you think it's unfair, being a Chinese player? Or does it simply fall in line with the way they do things in that country?
If one decides to 'blame' NCSoft for associating with Kongzhong, why aren't we blaming ANet for associating with NCsoft?
That's the logic that apparently isn't 'logical'. You want to apply a logic, be consistant; otherwise it comes through as bias.
Because..... NCSoft owns Arenanet? They always have (or at least for quite a while now) Association isn't really a choice in this case, it's a matter of being owned by their publisher.
I mean, I guess you could blame Arenanet for selling out and getting a publisher (Though it's hard to publish an MMO on your own when you're just a few guys, especially pre-kickstarter days), if you want to do that.
But you can't logically extend that to something that NCSoft does with a Chinese company, several years in the future, unless you're accusing Arenanet of being both poor AND psychic.
And if they could tell the future, they probably wouldn't have been poor.
If you want to blame Arenanet for 'selling out to the man', and then blame the man (NCSoft) for 'associating with the wrong sorts in China' (Though almost all of the MMO companies there have games with varying levels of pay to win), I would find that acceptable logical constructions.
But blaming Arenanet for the Chinese publisher is too much of a leap for me, sorry. I am very consistent, thank you. Like I said, I don't mind if you're lik e'GRRR! Darn you Arenanet, for selling out to NCSoft!' or 'Darn you NCSoft for working with that particular Chinese publisher!', but I just can't stand behind 'Darn you Arenanet for working with that particular Chinese publisher!' because it isn't really a choice on their part. They can't say no.
It is called "taking responsability". Arenanet made the choice to let NCsoft become their owners and should thus take responsability for everything that NCsoft decides to do with Guild Wars 2.
And since they are responsible, they are also justifiably subjected to blame.
If one decides to 'blame' NCSoft for associating with Kongzhong, why aren't we blaming ANet for associating with NCsoft?
That's the logic that apparently isn't 'logical'. You want to apply a logic, be consistant; otherwise it comes through as bias.
Because..... NCSoft owns Arenanet? They always have (or at least for quite a while now) Association isn't really a choice in this case, it's a matter of being owned by their publisher.
I mean, I guess you could blame Arenanet for selling out and getting a publisher (Though it's hard to publish an MMO on your own when you're just a few guys, especially pre-kickstarter days), if you want to do that.
But you can't logically extend that to something that NCSoft does with a Chinese company, several years in the future, unless you're accusing Arenanet of being both poor AND psychic.
And if they could tell the future, they probably wouldn't have been poor.
If you want to blame Arenanet for 'selling out to the man', and then blame the man (NCSoft) for 'associating with the wrong sorts in China' (Though almost all of the MMO companies there have games with varying levels of pay to win), I would find that acceptable logical constructions.
But blaming Arenanet for the Chinese publisher is too much of a leap for me, sorry. I am very consistent, thank you. Like I said, I don't mind if you're lik e'GRRR! Darn you Arenanet, for selling out to NCSoft!' or 'Darn you NCSoft for working with that particular Chinese publisher!', but I just can't stand behind 'Darn you Arenanet for working with that particular Chinese publisher!' because it isn't really a choice on their part. They can't say no.
It is called "taking responsability". Arenanet made the choice to let NCsoft become their owners and should thus take responsability for everything that NCsoft decides to do with Guild Wars 2.
And since they are responsible, they are also justifiably subjected to blame.
But blame about what?
That the Chinese version is somewhat different from the West one?
The only involving cash shop are all cosmetic. All the other differences aren't money related.
Some people just can't stand that GW2 is a game that can make money by selling the box and having balanced microtransactions.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Originally posted by Arthasm Is the game really doing bad in West that they trying to milk Chinese players before NCSoft tighten Anet's belt?
No, the game is doing really well in the West, but by Chinese law, any MMO in China must be published and distributed by a Chinese company.
Also, a lot of what was written was misunderstandings.
So you're confused on two different levels. Glad I could straighten that out for you.
You mean people jumped on a bandwagon to attack GW2 before they knew all the facts, even though the OP stated that the source was not 100% trustworthy?
Never happens. NEVER.
Also, who cares? Let the Chinese publisher do what it wants, it's China. Are any of you from China? If so,do you think it's unfair, being a Chinese player? Or does it simply fall in line with the way they do things in that country?
Dont do logic and facts!
One question that pops to my mind: why the F does anyone cares how will Chinese publisher release GW2 in China? Will anyone who posted here actually play on Chinese servers?
China is completely different market and has completely different rules than the west.
If one decides to 'blame' NCSoft for associating with Kongzhong, why aren't we blaming ANet for associating with NCsoft?
That's the logic that apparently isn't 'logical'. You want to apply a logic, be consistant; otherwise it comes through as bias.
Because..... NCSoft owns Arenanet? They always have (or at least for quite a while now) Association isn't really a choice in this case, it's a matter of being owned by their publisher.
I mean, I guess you could blame Arenanet for selling out and getting a publisher (Though it's hard to publish an MMO on your own when you're just a few guys, especially pre-kickstarter days), if you want to do that.
But you can't logically extend that to something that NCSoft does with a Chinese company, several years in the future, unless you're accusing Arenanet of being both poor AND psychic.
And if they could tell the future, they probably wouldn't have been poor.
If you want to blame Arenanet for 'selling out to the man', and then blame the man (NCSoft) for 'associating with the wrong sorts in China' (Though almost all of the MMO companies there have games with varying levels of pay to win), I would find that acceptable logical constructions.
But blaming Arenanet for the Chinese publisher is too much of a leap for me, sorry. I am very consistent, thank you. Like I said, I don't mind if you're lik e'GRRR! Darn you Arenanet, for selling out to NCSoft!' or 'Darn you NCSoft for working with that particular Chinese publisher!', but I just can't stand behind 'Darn you Arenanet for working with that particular Chinese publisher!' because it isn't really a choice on their part. They can't say no.
It is called "taking responsability". Arenanet made the choice to let NCsoft become their owners and should thus take responsability for everything that NCsoft decides to do with Guild Wars 2.
And since they are responsible, they are also justifiably subjected to blame.
But blame about what?
That the Chinese version is somewhat different from the West one?
The only involving cash shop are all cosmetic. All the other differences aren't money related.
Some people just can't stand that GW2 is a game that can make money by selling the box and having balanced microtransactions.
Whatever NCsoft decides to do with GW2. Whether or not there is anything wrong with the Chinese version, is irrelevant. The point is that Arenanet does not got a free pass of the "NCSoft did it, not us" kind.
If one decides to 'blame' NCSoft for associating with Kongzhong, why aren't we blaming ANet for associating with NCsoft?
That's the logic that apparently isn't 'logical'. You want to apply a logic, be consistant; otherwise it comes through as bias.
Because..... NCSoft owns Arenanet? They always have (or at least for quite a while now) Association isn't really a choice in this case, it's a matter of being owned by their publisher.
I mean, I guess you could blame Arenanet for selling out and getting a publisher (Though it's hard to publish an MMO on your own when you're just a few guys, especially pre-kickstarter days), if you want to do that.
But you can't logically extend that to something that NCSoft does with a Chinese company, several years in the future, unless you're accusing Arenanet of being both poor AND psychic.
And if they could tell the future, they probably wouldn't have been poor.
If you want to blame Arenanet for 'selling out to the man', and then blame the man (NCSoft) for 'associating with the wrong sorts in China' (Though almost all of the MMO companies there have games with varying levels of pay to win), I would find that acceptable logical constructions.
But blaming Arenanet for the Chinese publisher is too much of a leap for me, sorry. I am very consistent, thank you. Like I said, I don't mind if you're lik e'GRRR! Darn you Arenanet, for selling out to NCSoft!' or 'Darn you NCSoft for working with that particular Chinese publisher!', but I just can't stand behind 'Darn you Arenanet for working with that particular Chinese publisher!' because it isn't really a choice on their part. They can't say no.
It is called "taking responsability". Arenanet made the choice to let NCsoft become their owners and should thus take responsability for everything that NCsoft decides to do with Guild Wars 2.
And since they are responsible, they are also justifiably subjected to blame.
That doesn't make sense. ArenaNet is a developer, NCsoft is a publisher.
ArenaNet is not equipped themselves to market, distribute or launch products. They are just game makers. It is the financial responsibility of NCsoft to deal with everything that relates to sales, marketing and distribution.
Also, you have to keep in mind that the way the gem store works in Europe might not have the same penetration as in many parts of asia.
If one decides to 'blame' NCSoft for associating with Kongzhong, why aren't we blaming ANet for associating with NCsoft?
That's the logic that apparently isn't 'logical'. You want to apply a logic, be consistant; otherwise it comes through as bias.
Because..... NCSoft owns Arenanet? They always have (or at least for quite a while now) Association isn't really a choice in this case, it's a matter of being owned by their publisher.
I mean, I guess you could blame Arenanet for selling out and getting a publisher (Though it's hard to publish an MMO on your own when you're just a few guys, especially pre-kickstarter days), if you want to do that.
But you can't logically extend that to something that NCSoft does with a Chinese company, several years in the future, unless you're accusing Arenanet of being both poor AND psychic.
And if they could tell the future, they probably wouldn't have been poor.
If you want to blame Arenanet for 'selling out to the man', and then blame the man (NCSoft) for 'associating with the wrong sorts in China' (Though almost all of the MMO companies there have games with varying levels of pay to win), I would find that acceptable logical constructions.
But blaming Arenanet for the Chinese publisher is too much of a leap for me, sorry. I am very consistent, thank you. Like I said, I don't mind if you're lik e'GRRR! Darn you Arenanet, for selling out to NCSoft!' or 'Darn you NCSoft for working with that particular Chinese publisher!', but I just can't stand behind 'Darn you Arenanet for working with that particular Chinese publisher!' because it isn't really a choice on their part. They can't say no.
It is called "taking responsability". Arenanet made the choice to let NCsoft become their owners and should thus take responsability for everything that NCsoft decides to do with Guild Wars 2.
And since they are responsible, they are also justifiably subjected to blame.
That doesn't make sense. ArenaNet is a developer, NCsoft is a publisher.
ArenaNet is not equipped themselves to market, distribute or launch products. They are just game makers. It is the financial responsibility of NCsoft to deal with everything that relates to sales, marketing and distribution.
Also, you have to keep in mind that the way the gem store works in Europe might not have the same penetration as in many parts of asia.
NCsoft is more than just a publisher, it is the owner of Arenanet. Arenanet gave up ownership of their own company and should therefore take responsibility for their decision of doing so.
I imagine things would have been much harder if Arenanet have not given up ownership. However, it would certainly not been impossible to go that path, GGG with their game "Path of Exile" shows that it is indeed possible.
Arenanet wanted the easy road, and by taking the easy road there would be consequences and they should not be regarded as unblameable.
NCsoft is more than just a publisher, it is the owner of Arenanet. Arenanet gave up ownership of their own company and should therefore take responsibility for their decision of doing so.
I imagine things would have been much harder if Arenanet have not given up ownership. However, it would certainly not been impossible to go that path, GGG with their game "Path of Exile" shows that it is indeed possible.
Arenanet wanted the easy road, and by taking the easy road there would be consequences and they should not be regarded as unblameable.
ANet is a wholly owned subsidiary of NCSoft and have been since they developed Guild Wars 1 years ago. They don't make the publishing decisions.
They made the decision to become owned by NCsoft.
To quote wikipedia:
" They left in February 2000 to form their own company. Their new studio was briefly called Triforge, Inc.[4] before changing its name to ArenaNet. The company was acquired by NCsoft in 2002"
Whatever NCsoft decides to do with GW2. Whether or not there is anything wrong with the Chinese version, is irrelevant. The point is that Arenanet does not got a free pass of the "NCSoft did it, not us" kind.
I guess then Arenanet should get a praise for keeping GW2 China non P2W and simply B2P with only some minor changes in a market where the games usually differ extensively from the west versions.
I guess Arenanet should also be praised for keeping GW running while Paragon studios should be bashed for letting NCSoft kill city of heroes.
But it is easier to start threads stating incorrect and/or misrepresented information.
VIP is not mandatory for Chinese GW2. Chinese GW2 isn't pay to win.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
If one decides to 'blame' NCSoft for associating with Kongzhong, why aren't we blaming ANet for associating with NCsoft?
That's the logic that apparently isn't 'logical'. You want to apply a logic, be consistant; otherwise it comes through as bias.
Because..... NCSoft owns Arenanet? They always have (or at least for quite a while now) Association isn't really a choice in this case, it's a matter of being owned by their publisher.
I mean, I guess you could blame Arenanet for selling out and getting a publisher (Though it's hard to publish an MMO on your own when you're just a few guys, especially pre-kickstarter days), if you want to do that.
But you can't logically extend that to something that NCSoft does with a Chinese company, several years in the future, unless you're accusing Arenanet of being both poor AND psychic.
And if they could tell the future, they probably wouldn't have been poor.
If you want to blame Arenanet for 'selling out to the man', and then blame the man (NCSoft) for 'associating with the wrong sorts in China' (Though almost all of the MMO companies there have games with varying levels of pay to win), I would find that acceptable logical constructions.
But blaming Arenanet for the Chinese publisher is too much of a leap for me, sorry. I am very consistent, thank you. Like I said, I don't mind if you're lik e'GRRR! Darn you Arenanet, for selling out to NCSoft!' or 'Darn you NCSoft for working with that particular Chinese publisher!', but I just can't stand behind 'Darn you Arenanet for working with that particular Chinese publisher!' because it isn't really a choice on their part. They can't say no.
It is called "taking responsability". Arenanet made the choice to let NCsoft become their owners and should thus take responsability for everything that NCsoft decides to do with Guild Wars 2.
And since they are responsible, they are also justifiably subjected to blame.
That doesn't make sense. ArenaNet is a developer, NCsoft is a publisher.
ArenaNet is not equipped themselves to market, distribute or launch products. They are just game makers. It is the financial responsibility of NCsoft to deal with everything that relates to sales, marketing and distribution.
Also, you have to keep in mind that the way the gem store works in Europe might not have the same penetration as in many parts of asia.
NCsoft is more than just a publisher, it is the owner of Arenanet. Arenanet gave up ownership of their own company and should therefore take responsibility for their decision of doing so.
I imagine things would have been much harder if Arenanet have not given up ownership. However, it would certainly not been impossible to go that path, GGG with their game "Path of Exile" shows that it is indeed possible.
Arenanet wanted the easy road, and by taking the easy road there would be consequences and they should not be regarded as unblameable.
Why should they take responsibility? That's a strange opinion to have. ArenaNet as a developer have no experience in publishing. It makes no sense to give them the blame.
It would be like blaming a movie director because the producers screwed up a marketing push leading up to the film. Just because the producers are funding the film, doesn't mean it's the directors fault. Everyone has their expertise.
Whatever NCsoft decides to do with GW2. Whether or not there is anything wrong with the Chinese version, is irrelevant. The point is that Arenanet does not got a free pass of the "NCSoft did it, not us" kind.
I guess then Arenanet should get a praise for keeping GW2 China non P2W and simply B2P with only some minor changes in a market where the games usually differ extensively from the west versions.
I guess Arenanet should also be praised for keeping GW running while Paragon studios should be bashed for letting NCSoft kill city of heroes.
But it is easier to start threads stating incorrect and/or misrepresented information.
VIP is not mandatory for Chinese GW2. Chinese GW2 isn't pay to win.
Whatever NCsoft decides to do with GW2. Whether or not there is anything wrong with the Chinese version, is irrelevant. The point is that Arenanet does not got a free pass of the "NCSoft did it, not us" kind.
I guess then Arenanet should get a praise for keeping GW2 China non P2W and simply B2P with only some minor changes in a market where the games usually differ extensively from the west versions.
I guess Arenanet should also be praised for keeping GW running while Paragon studios should be bashed for letting NCSoft kill city of heroes.
But it is easier to start threads stating incorrect and/or misrepresented information.
VIP is not mandatory for Chinese GW2. Chinese GW2 isn't pay to win.
The 'Dye unlock through Gem' is also one of those that's really hard to defend if you are a pro-GW2 poster.
What the F do you care if they have 50$ sub and 50$ mandatory gem purchase/month just to have access to the game?
No one cares rofl
Just as noone cares which monetization WoW has (unless they try to serve it as subs) or what monetization EvE has.
You dont play teh game AT ALL and now youre awfully concerned which payment method will CHINESE have. rofl
I see agenda here
If Chinese publisher screwes up monetization they have denied themselves very lucrative business opportunity, and NCSoft still gets their cut. Thats all you need to be concerned with if you dont have agendas.
Comments
? You were the one who said it was P2W in the first place, and that it was Arenanet's fault.
Neither one of which is true. How is he moving the goalposts? By answering how you're wrong each time you shift your own stance?
We are getting into some pretty sad (and funny) territory here.
Lets break this down shall we?
Why is this ANet's fault? - Gaia / Meow
Cause Anet/NCSoft decided to partner up with a P2W publisher? - Me
Well.....um.... It isn't P2W anyway! - Gaia / Meow
So it is Anet's fault then? And you just moved the goal post? Dye ID for Gems? - Me
What Dye ID for gems? There are only titles! - Gaia / Meow
*Reddit proof link.* So either Mike from Anet is lying or you are. - Me
You are wrong! - Gaia / Meow
/Facepalm - Me
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Arenanet doesn't make the decisions. I already said you can blame NCSoft, but so far as partnering with China goes, that's really out of Arenanet's hands.
You were the one who said it was P2W in the FIRST place. You did. You were the original post I responded to. All I ever said was that it didn't really become a P2W cash shop.
I also said 'When you talk about gem ID, are you talking about dyes?', because you originally said gems for some reason. So I was the first person to mention dye IDs in this particular conversation. You can go look that up. You specifically said gem ID and I asked for clarification. :P
I never said anything about titles only. Maybe Gaia did, but I certainly didn't.
I am not actually Gaia, and you can't take statements that BOTH Of us make and attribute it to each other. And yes, you are wrong about it being P2W, and it is silly to blame Arenanet for decisions that are beyond their control. I even said you can blame NCSoft, go for it. They're the people who make the international business decisions, so that'd make sense.
edit: Since you seem to have forgotten, then was what I originally responded to.
My two problems with this is that Arenanet has no control over the international marketing of GW2. That is on NCSoft. My other problem was that GW2 isn't P2W in China, though it might have some weird monetization like the dye identification.
See? No moving of my goalposts. I have consistently kept the same stance on everything, and was responding to this original post of yours which wasn't quoting anything. Now we're clear.
This logic makes no sense.
If we fault a company for associating its IP with another company why does ANet get special treatment?
Getting shouted at by Pro-GW2 posters tends to blur them together. :P
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Because it's not Arenanet's decision to make?
NCSoft owns Arenanet you know. Generally you blame the publisher for the big picture sort of things, especially in a case like this, where it is literally outside of Arenanet's territory.
That's why EA takes a lot of flak, for example, rather than the smaller companies under its aegis.
You blame people for what they're responsible for. It'd be like getting mad at a player on a team for a decision management makes.
I'm not yelling at you! I'm just disagreeing with you. And I can keep you straight from other people, and be civil about it as well. You should try it!
If one decides to 'blame' NCSoft for associating with Kongzhong, why aren't we blaming ANet for associating with NCsoft?
That's the logic that apparently isn't 'logical'. You want to apply a logic, be consistant; otherwise it comes through as bias.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Because..... NCSoft owns Arenanet?
They always have (or at least for quite a while now) Association isn't really a choice in this case, it's a matter of being owned by their publisher.
I mean, I guess you could blame Arenanet for selling out and getting a publisher (Though it's hard to publish an MMO on your own when you're just a few guys, especially pre-kickstarter days), if you want to do that.
But you can't logically extend that to something that NCSoft does with a Chinese company, several years in the future, unless you're accusing Arenanet of being both poor AND psychic.
And if they could tell the future, they probably wouldn't have been poor.
If you want to blame Arenanet for 'selling out to the man', and then blame the man (NCSoft) for 'associating with the wrong sorts in China' (Though almost all of the MMO companies there have games with varying levels of pay to win), I would find that acceptable logical constructions.
But blaming Arenanet for the Chinese publisher is too much of a leap for me, sorry. I am very consistent, thank you. Like I said, I don't mind if you're lik e'GRRR! Darn you Arenanet, for selling out to NCSoft!' or 'Darn you NCSoft for working with that particular Chinese publisher!', but I just can't stand behind 'Darn you Arenanet for working with that particular Chinese publisher!' because it isn't really a choice on their part. They can't say no.
So your reason to believe Anet sold their soul to the demon is Dye IDs for account bound dyes in China (without even knowing if there are different ways to acquire those dyes or not)?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Actually it is not anet or ncsoft's doing. People want GW2 in china and this is the people who offered to run the game. They are the ones who set the rules and if you play ANY China based games you will see that they are all P2W
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Exactly in which way is GW2 China P2W?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
No, the game is doing really well in the West, but by Chinese law, any MMO in China must be published and distributed by a Chinese company.
Also, a lot of what was written was misunderstandings.
So you're confused on two different levels. Glad I could straighten that out for you.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
You mean people jumped on a bandwagon to attack GW2 before they knew all the facts, even though the OP stated that the source was not 100% trustworthy?
Never happens. NEVER.
Also, who cares? Let the Chinese publisher do what it wants, it's China. Are any of you from China? If so,do you think it's unfair, being a Chinese player? Or does it simply fall in line with the way they do things in that country?
It is called "taking responsability". Arenanet made the choice to let NCsoft become their owners and should thus take responsability for everything that NCsoft decides to do with Guild Wars 2.
And since they are responsible, they are also justifiably subjected to blame.
But blame about what?
That the Chinese version is somewhat different from the West one?
The only involving cash shop are all cosmetic. All the other differences aren't money related.
Some people just can't stand that GW2 is a game that can make money by selling the box and having balanced microtransactions.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Dont do logic and facts!
One question that pops to my mind: why the F does anyone cares how will Chinese publisher release GW2 in China? Will anyone who posted here actually play on Chinese servers?
China is completely different market and has completely different rules than the west.
Whatever NCsoft decides to do with GW2. Whether or not there is anything wrong with the Chinese version, is irrelevant. The point is that Arenanet does not got a free pass of the "NCSoft did it, not us" kind.
That doesn't make sense. ArenaNet is a developer, NCsoft is a publisher.
ArenaNet is not equipped themselves to market, distribute or launch products. They are just game makers. It is the financial responsibility of NCsoft to deal with everything that relates to sales, marketing and distribution.
Also, you have to keep in mind that the way the gem store works in Europe might not have the same penetration as in many parts of asia.
Also, latest rumor is that they are scrapping the VIP system for the open chinese beta; http://news.17173.com/content/2014-04-01/20140401094749925.shtml
NCsoft is more than just a publisher, it is the owner of Arenanet. Arenanet gave up ownership of their own company and should therefore take responsibility for their decision of doing so.
I imagine things would have been much harder if Arenanet have not given up ownership. However, it would certainly not been impossible to go that path, GGG with their game "Path of Exile" shows that it is indeed possible.
Arenanet wanted the easy road, and by taking the easy road there would be consequences and they should not be regarded as unblameable.
They made the decision to become owned by NCsoft.
To quote wikipedia:
" They left in February 2000 to form their own company. Their new studio was briefly called Triforge, Inc.[4] before changing its name to ArenaNet. The company was acquired by NCsoft in 2002"
I guess then Arenanet should get a praise for keeping GW2 China non P2W and simply B2P with only some minor changes in a market where the games usually differ extensively from the west versions.
I guess Arenanet should also be praised for keeping GW running while Paragon studios should be bashed for letting NCSoft kill city of heroes.
But it is easier to start threads stating incorrect and/or misrepresented information.
VIP is not mandatory for Chinese GW2. Chinese GW2 isn't pay to win.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Why should they take responsibility? That's a strange opinion to have. ArenaNet as a developer have no experience in publishing. It makes no sense to give them the blame.
It would be like blaming a movie director because the producers screwed up a marketing push leading up to the film. Just because the producers are funding the film, doesn't mean it's the directors fault. Everyone has their expertise.
This post is pretty funny.
Gaia Hunter, can you tell me why you suddenly decided to move the goal post from this? http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/6246850
The 'Dye unlock through Gem' is also one of those that's really hard to defend if you are a pro-GW2 poster.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
What the F do you care if they have 50$ sub and 50$ mandatory gem purchase/month just to have access to the game?
No one cares rofl
Just as noone cares which monetization WoW has (unless they try to serve it as subs) or what monetization EvE has.
You dont play teh game AT ALL and now youre awfully concerned which payment method will CHINESE have. rofl
I see agenda here
If Chinese publisher screwes up monetization they have denied themselves very lucrative business opportunity, and NCSoft still gets their cut. Thats all you need to be concerned with if you dont have agendas.