Remember human nature : Money speaks power. Now is : GW2 China will be buy to play... with mandatory VIP.
Next is (maybe) : GW2 NA will be buy to play... with mandatory VIP.
Think of the reason why City of Heroes is axed.
First GW2 isn't mandatory VIP in China. VIP is titles, 10% store discount, some extra in game perks like different colored name. This was of course during beta.
City of Heroes, always city of heroes.
Why not talk about the original Guild Wars.
Still up and running.
And City of Heroes (nor GW1) ever generated revenue close to GW2.
Although if generally a game going from subscription to free to play is seen as a sign it is dying, isn't a game going from b2p to subscription or VIP or whatever a sign it is doing great?
Money speaks power. And companies follow where the money goes.
Originally posted by Meowhead
Originally posted by zwei2
This sounds... bad.
Remember human nature : Money speaks power. Now is : GW2 China will be buy to play... with mandatory VIP.
Next is (maybe) : GW2 NA will be buy to play... with mandatory VIP.
Think of the reason why City of Heroes is axed.
... I am not sure the OP knows what the word 'mandatory' is.
Because it isn't.
In fact the opening post is filled with misinformation and confusion.
Misinformation or confusion, it doesn't matter. It is not happening now, doesn't means it will not happen in the future.
Money speaks power. This has applied in AAA games so far. Latest example is Archeage in Korea...
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
Misinformation or confusion, it doesn't matter. It is not happening now, doesn't means it will not happen in the future.
Money speaks power. This has applied in AAA games so far. Latest example is Archeage in Korea...
Wait. So. It's not happening in China, but =it doesn't matter=, because it might happen in the US, just because somebody erroneously mentioned it happening in China even though it isn't?
Okay.
Every game you love is going to change into a hundred dollar a month subscription because money.
Sorry. It's now going to happen because I said it.
Misinformation or confusion, it doesn't matter. It is not happening now, doesn't means it will not happen in the future.
Money speaks power. This has applied in AAA games so far. Latest example is Archeage in Korea...
Wait. So. It's not happening in China, but =it doesn't matter=, because it might happen in the US, just because somebody erroneously mentioned it happening in China even though it isn't?
Okay.
Every game you love is going to change into a hundred dollar a month subscription because money.
Sorry. It's now going to happen because I said it.
Look. At least try to read the comments carefully and make some sense in your replies.
And yes, if game companies are really that greedy, they can charge $100 monthly subscription for all they care, just because they can. Again, it is not happening now, doesn't means it will not happen in the future. And this applies to ALL games, where money is the true motivation.
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
And yes, if game companies are really that greedy, they can charge $100 monthly subscription for all they care, just because they can. Again, it is not happening now, doesn't means it will not happen in the future. And this applies to ALL games, where money is the true motivation.
They can't really charge $100 monthly sub fee because there is a competitive market.
In fact many games try to charge $15/month and they simply can't.
I've been reading all about Arenanet becoming ready to flood both GW1 and GW2 with P2W for years now and hasn't happened.
In fact, GW1 sold stuff like skill and item unlock packs for PvP and mercenary heroes for PvE that probably have much more impact than anything that you can buy in GW2.
PS: By the way, are you zwei2stein for guildwarsguru.com?
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
And yes, if game companies are really that greedy, they can charge $100 monthly subscription for all they care, just because they can. Again, it is not happening now, doesn't means it will not happen in the future. And this applies to ALL games, where money is the true motivation.
They can't really charge $100 monthly sub fee because there is a competitive market.
In fact many games try to charge $15/month and they simply can't.
I've been reading all about Arenanet becoming ready to flood both GW1 and GW2 with P2W for years now and hasn't happened.
In fact, GW1 sold stuff like skill and item unlock packs for PvP and mercenary heroes for PvE that probably have much more impact than anything that you can buy in GW2.
PS: By the way, are you zwei2stein for guildwarsguru.com?
Companies follow where the money goes. The $100/month is just an example another poster gave.
As I had mentioned, it is not happening now, does not means it will not happen in the future. I do have to stress that it is not a MUST that it will happen, but rather a probability. It could be high, it could be near nil, but it is still there. Unless the game company comes up with a physical paper clause that "will refund or even compensate players if the game company break or stray the game from their visions", anything is possible.
And no, I am not who you think as.
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
And yes, if game companies are really that greedy, they can charge $100 monthly subscription for all they care, just because they can. Again, it is not happening now, doesn't means it will not happen in the future. And this applies to ALL games, where money is the true motivation.
They can't really charge $100 monthly sub fee because there is a competitive market.
In fact many games try to charge $15/month and they simply can't.
I've been reading all about Arenanet becoming ready to flood both GW1 and GW2 with P2W for years now and hasn't happened.
In fact, GW1 sold stuff like skill and item unlock packs for PvP and mercenary heroes for PvE that probably have much more impact than anything that you can buy in GW2.
PS: By the way, are you zwei2stein for guildwarsguru.com?
Companies follow where the money goes. The $100/month is just an example another poster gave.
As I had mentioned, it is not happening now, does not means it will not happen in the future. I do have to stress that it is not a MUST that it will happen, but rather a probability. It could be high, it could be near nil, but it is still there. Unless the game company comes up with a physical paper clause that "will refund or even compensate players if the game company break or stray the game from their visions", anything is possible.
And no, I am not who you think as.
Yeah, and theres probability that world will end tomorrow so better prepare! DDDOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMM
Game that could charge 100$/month and still keep million+ players can simply be called: awesome.
If you have a product that is THAT awesome and players are ready to pay for such awesomness: go right ahead. Simply put 200-300 million $ projects failed to make people pay even 15/month. GW2 is so successful because it has the right mix of high quality/monetization, their premise was from the start: game is B2P but if players see it worthy they will spend some money. And quite enough players see it worthy to spend money beyond the box purchase. Its pretty simple.
and im going to say it i bought the game had a good time then they started all this nerfing and changing crap....it snot the same game that mad eit money....its for dummies....and i personally know from one server i was on over 120+ people left the game.....30 went to ESO....the rest to other mmo's.....
i myself used to toss a few bucks a month onto the game and ive stopped....your going ot get a rude awakening next years numbers drop right off the deep end and a server merger is due to the falling numbers of players .....ive been on two of there servers both with crappy numbers for WvW and i paid for the move 1st time...im just not into paying to get game play....
as to china well it might start out making a good buck but wiht all the other mmo's coming don't expect it to last.
blade and soul one person mentioned has had hacker issues....its one reason i wont touch that game with a 50 foot pole.
SONY has had the same issues , wont touch them....gets pretty darn limiting when the privacy and security of these games startes costing us all money....and its one reason i am really thinking of going back to single player games that have some multiplayer aspects.....
the scams i see them micro transacting is just sickening that you all pay for such crap....
and GW2 my honest opinion its a game for 10 year olds....
I have a hard time understanding what you wrote, but the game is doing good.+ GW2 always had massive inconsistency across it's worlds, for many reasons;
GW2 has many zones that you can level in. You can stay in the level 1-15 zone and level all the way to lvl 80 effectively. It doesn't matter with scaling. Not only that, but WvW and crafting, and resource gathering, and personal stories and dungeons are all efficent and fast ways to level. GW2 is not a grind based game, so you don't see that many people in the open world, because they are not forced too.
This is the main reason for server merges.
The anticipation rate in sPvP is almost dead at this point, but the entry level I have seen for WvW is very very high, and has just become more popular with EOTM and the improvements they made to WvW. At least on the servers I have been on.
Finally, it's important to understand that just Guild Wars 1, GW2 is a game that can be played in smaller chunks of time and less often. The game is not as time demanding as many other MMOs so it's normal for Guild Wars players to take breaks. You get a lot of un-traditional MMO players who don't spend that much time playing. But this doesn't mean they are not active. Just that they play in less intervals.
I think GW2 has less players than the initial launch influx, but I think it then has grown a lot since then, and I think it's in the best state it has ever been in. The bots are gone, the economy is stable, there is some really solid additions like Fractals of the Mist dungeons, many quality of life gameplay improvements, guild missions which really give purpose to the game, the achievement unlock system and so on and so forth.
Most chinese players don't have an issue with this, just as korean players have almost no problem with lock boxes.
Just different cultures, things that would never work in the west are no problem in other regions, that's why companies prefer most other regions to the west. Easier and cheaper.
Exactly what I was saying. But a few arrogant westerners here seem to be trying to transplant their feelings onto Chinese players, and it's not working. In just the pages since I posted, I see someone posting that this means the NA version is going to change payment method... because of the way China does things.
At least give an example of what MMO this has happened with before, and if it has, tell us why it would even succeed here. I was wrong. People are still bitter about GW2 all these months later. It's sad as hell.
If one decides to 'blame' NCSoft for associating with Kongzhong, why aren't we blaming ANet for associating with NCsoft?
That's the logic that apparently isn't 'logical'. You want to apply a logic, be consistant; otherwise it comes through as bias.
Because..... NCSoft owns Arenanet? They always have (or at least for quite a while now) Association isn't really a choice in this case, it's a matter of being owned by their publisher.
I mean, I guess you could blame Arenanet for selling out and getting a publisher (Though it's hard to publish an MMO on your own when you're just a few guys, especially pre-kickstarter days), if you want to do that.
But you can't logically extend that to something that NCSoft does with a Chinese company, several years in the future, unless you're accusing Arenanet of being both poor AND psychic.
And if they could tell the future, they probably wouldn't have been poor.
If you want to blame Arenanet for 'selling out to the man', and then blame the man (NCSoft) for 'associating with the wrong sorts in China' (Though almost all of the MMO companies there have games with varying levels of pay to win), I would find that acceptable logical constructions.
But blaming Arenanet for the Chinese publisher is too much of a leap for me, sorry. I am very consistent, thank you. Like I said, I don't mind if you're lik e'GRRR! Darn you Arenanet, for selling out to NCSoft!' or 'Darn you NCSoft for working with that particular Chinese publisher!', but I just can't stand behind 'Darn you Arenanet for working with that particular Chinese publisher!' because it isn't really a choice on their part. They can't say no.
It is called "taking responsability". Arenanet made the choice to let NCsoft become their owners and should thus take responsability for everything that NCsoft decides to do with Guild Wars 2.
And since they are responsible, they are also justifiably subjected to blame.
That doesn't make sense. ArenaNet is a developer, NCsoft is a publisher.
ArenaNet is not equipped themselves to market, distribute or launch products. They are just game makers. It is the financial responsibility of NCsoft to deal with everything that relates to sales, marketing and distribution.
Also, you have to keep in mind that the way the gem store works in Europe might not have the same penetration as in many parts of asia.
NCsoft is more than just a publisher, it is the owner of Arenanet. Arenanet gave up ownership of their own company and should therefore take responsibility for their decision of doing so.
I imagine things would have been much harder if Arenanet have not given up ownership. However, it would certainly not been impossible to go that path, GGG with their game "Path of Exile" shows that it is indeed possible.
Arenanet wanted the easy road, and by taking the easy road there would be consequences and they should not be regarded as unblameable.
Why should they take responsibility? That's a strange opinion to have. ArenaNet as a developer have no experience in publishing. It makes no sense to give them the blame.
It would be like blaming a movie director because the producers screwed up a marketing push leading up to the film. Just because the producers are funding the film, doesn't mean it's the directors fault. Everyone has their expertise.
Arenanet was an independent company. How they wanted to publish their games was something they had to decide. They could have gone the GGG way, by hiring relevant people themselves to publish their games. Instead, they chose to give up ownership of their own company. With any choice comes responsibility.
As for the movie director: your example gives far too little information about what choices the movie director did, for me to be able to accurately give a statement regarding whether they are responsible or not.
Most chinese players don't have an issue with this, just as korean players have almost no problem with lock boxes.
Just different cultures, things that would never work in the west are no problem in other regions, that's why companies prefer most other regions to the west. Easier and cheaper.
Exactly what I was saying. But a few arrogant westerners here seem to be trying to transplant their feelings onto Chinese players, and it's not working. In just the pages since I posted, I see someone posting that this means the NA version is going to change payment method... because of the way China does things.
At least give an example of what MMO this has happened with before, and if it has, tell us why it would even succeed here. I was wrong. People are still bitter about GW2 all these months later. It's sad as hell.
Are you aware of that most Westerners have no issues with it either :P?
Whatever NCsoft decides to do with GW2. Whether or not there is anything wrong with the Chinese version, is irrelevant. The point is that Arenanet does not got a free pass of the "NCSoft did it, not us" kind.
I guess then Arenanet should get a praise for keeping GW2 China non P2W and simply B2P with only some minor changes in a market where the games usually differ extensively from the west versions.
I guess Arenanet should also be praised for keeping GW running while Paragon studios should be bashed for letting NCSoft kill city of heroes.
But it is easier to start threads stating incorrect and/or misrepresented information.
VIP is not mandatory for Chinese GW2. Chinese GW2 isn't pay to win.
Regarding your Arenanet statements: if the "facts" you embedded are true and one is of the opinion that those facts are positive, then yes it should reflect positively on Arenanet.
If one decides to 'blame' NCSoft for associating with Kongzhong, why aren't we blaming ANet for associating with NCsoft?
That's the logic that apparently isn't 'logical'. You want to apply a logic, be consistant; otherwise it comes through as bias.
Because..... NCSoft owns Arenanet? They always have (or at least for quite a while now) Association isn't really a choice in this case, it's a matter of being owned by their publisher.
I mean, I guess you could blame Arenanet for selling out and getting a publisher (Though it's hard to publish an MMO on your own when you're just a few guys, especially pre-kickstarter days), if you want to do that.
But you can't logically extend that to something that NCSoft does with a Chinese company, several years in the future, unless you're accusing Arenanet of being both poor AND psychic.
And if they could tell the future, they probably wouldn't have been poor.
If you want to blame Arenanet for 'selling out to the man', and then blame the man (NCSoft) for 'associating with the wrong sorts in China' (Though almost all of the MMO companies there have games with varying levels of pay to win), I would find that acceptable logical constructions.
But blaming Arenanet for the Chinese publisher is too much of a leap for me, sorry. I am very consistent, thank you. Like I said, I don't mind if you're lik e'GRRR! Darn you Arenanet, for selling out to NCSoft!' or 'Darn you NCSoft for working with that particular Chinese publisher!', but I just can't stand behind 'Darn you Arenanet for working with that particular Chinese publisher!' because it isn't really a choice on their part. They can't say no.
It is called "taking responsability". Arenanet made the choice to let NCsoft become their owners and should thus take responsability for everything that NCsoft decides to do with Guild Wars 2.
And since they are responsible, they are also justifiably subjected to blame.
That doesn't make sense. ArenaNet is a developer, NCsoft is a publisher.
ArenaNet is not equipped themselves to market, distribute or launch products. They are just game makers. It is the financial responsibility of NCsoft to deal with everything that relates to sales, marketing and distribution.
Also, you have to keep in mind that the way the gem store works in Europe might not have the same penetration as in many parts of asia.
NCsoft is more than just a publisher, it is the owner of Arenanet. Arenanet gave up ownership of their own company and should therefore take responsibility for their decision of doing so.
I imagine things would have been much harder if Arenanet have not given up ownership. However, it would certainly not been impossible to go that path, GGG with their game "Path of Exile" shows that it is indeed possible.
Arenanet wanted the easy road, and by taking the easy road there would be consequences and they should not be regarded as unblameable.
Why should they take responsibility? That's a strange opinion to have. ArenaNet as a developer have no experience in publishing. It makes no sense to give them the blame.
It would be like blaming a movie director because the producers screwed up a marketing push leading up to the film. Just because the producers are funding the film, doesn't mean it's the directors fault. Everyone has their expertise.
Arenanet was an independent company. How they wanted to publish their games was something they had to decide. They could have gone the GGG way, by hiring relevant people themselves to publish their games. Instead, they chose to give up ownership of their own company. With any choice comes responsibility.
As for the movie director: your example gives far too little information about what choices the movie director did, for me to be able to accurately give a statement regarding whether they are responsible or not.
You have a very black and white opinion of the world. All I can say is that ArenaNet let themselves be bought as they couldn't finance the game on their own. At the time NCsoft was the biggest MMO publisher in the world (because of Lineage).
Your argument is a straw man because ArenaNet as a small developer had no skills or finances for publishing a game themselves. This is why all sorts of game developers let companies like EA and Activision publish their games. If they don't, their games won't get made. Pitching is really really hard in any industry, but particularly so in the games industry.
When you externalize work out to people who are experts in the field of what is being externalized too, you do give up freedom, because rarely do you have a mega company that can do anything but themselves. If you hold up someone to a standard that people should take responsibility for something they don't know about, then I don't know what to tell you.
I assume ArenaNet would have remained truly free of publishers had they had the capita.
I think you are very wrong when you suggest it's ArenaNets fault. They trust NCsoft to make the right choice on their behalf, just as NCsoft trusts them to make good game development desicions. That's a synergy that requires responsibility on both parts, not the one-shoe-fits-all model you are describing. Nobody who works in the industry would blame a developer for publishing choices. I really don't think so.
But you can believe what you want to believe, I guess.
I was reading the official chinese website and forum, but cannot find the details for the VIP. I am probably too tired to even bother now. I just want to repeat what I had said : Companies follow where the money goes.
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
Originally posted by zwei2 I was reading the official chinese website and forum, but cannot find the details for the VIP. I am probably too tired to even bother now. I just want to repeat what I had said : Companies follow where the money goes.
You're still confused.
There's no mandatory VIP in China.
Either you don't understand what the word mandatory means (Look it up using the dictionary), or you don't understand how to properly phrase a hypothetical. The part I am going to outline in red =is not true=. If you want to say 'Maybe some day GW2 will have mandatory VIP', then you could say that, though you'd be wrong, because that either shows that you don't understand what the word mandatory means, or that you don't understand what VIP means.
If you had a mandatory VIP program, it wouldn't be VIP anymore.
This has nothing to do with me liking the game or not, this has to do with facts.
You could say 'If the moon was made out of cheese then we could ship rockets full of mice up there and they would eat the moon', and that'd be a purely hypothetical situation.
But you can't say 'The moon is made out of cheese' and expect anybody to take you seriously.
I am going to repeat this again. The part you wrote in red is WRONG. It is not true. There is no mandatory VIP program in China. The person writing the original post was wrong. The very CONCEPT of a mandatory VIP program is silly.
You do not have mandatory VIP programs. You could have a mandatory subscription, but that is not the same thing.
You could have an optional VIP program (And GW2 china is apparently going to have one of those), but that is not mandatory.
Please. Look up the word mandatory and what VIP programs mean, before you accuse somebody of disagreeing with you because they like GW2. I am disagreeing with you because you are saying something that is completely wrong, based off of a subject header that is completely wrong.
Not only something that is completely wrong, but something that is LESS likely than all subscription games suddenly all deciding to move to a hundred dollar a month fee, starting next week.
Because 'mandatory' and 'VIP' don't go together.
Now, if you want to say 'Chinese GW2 will be buy to play... with optional VIP. Next, maybe GW2 NA will be buy to play... with optional VIP', we could then have a discussion that is based off of a realistic and true starting point, and we could discuss how likely it is that GW2 NA will decide to move to an optional VIP program.
But please. Mandatory VIP is not a thing, and will not be a thing, because making it mandatory makes it not a VIP program.
Originally posted by zwei2
This sounds... bad.
Remember human nature : Money speaks power. Now is : GW2 China will be buy to play... with mandatory VIP.
Next is (maybe) : GW2 NA will be buy to play... with mandatory VIP.
Originally posted by zwei2 I was reading the official chinese website and forum, but cannot find the details for the VIP. I am probably too tired to even bother now. I just want to repeat what I had said : Companies follow where the money goes.
You're still confused.
For every finger you point at someone, you are pointing four other fingers (and thumb) to yourself. Why so work up?
If my opinions can change MMOs, GW2 China will definately not have mandatory VIP, because I will already make my opinion to have Vanguard crush all the competitors. Which, does not happen, of course, since it is just an opinion. Companies follow where the money goes is a relative term, like there is no physical proof to that, but it is common sense.
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
1. Not going to quote your post as I generally don't like stealing other people's content via copy-paste onto a forum.
2. Did we move the goal post AGAIN?
So we went from 'Not ANet's fault' to 'Not really P2W anyway' to 'It is only titles and not anything else'?
? You were the one who said it was P2W in the first place, and that it was Arenanet's fault.
Neither one of which is true. How is he moving the goalposts? By answering how you're wrong each time you shift your own stance?
We are getting into some pretty sad (and funny) territory here.
Lets break this down shall we?
Why is this ANet's fault? - Gaia / Meow
Cause Anet/NCSoft decided to partner up with a P2W publisher? - Me
Well.....um.... It isn't P2W anyway! - Gaia / Meow
So it is Anet's fault then? And you just moved the goal post? Dye ID for Gems? - Me
What Dye ID for gems? There are only titles! - Gaia / Meow
*Reddit proof link.* So either Mike from Anet is lying or you are. - Me
You are wrong! - Gaia / Meow
/Facepalm - Me
You need to understand that Gai and Meows MMO of choice is, 'defending ANET/GW2 on these forums',. They do this far more then they actually play the game they champion.
Trying to make any point that may in some way appears negative towards ANET just retorts in the pair of them spinning it another way to either make you look bad or dismiss it as a, 'thing', that has no relevance.
Take some advice, don't bother engaging in it. Arguing with them is like headbutting a brickwall. The wall won't break and you'll just end up with a headache.
All that matters is in RED.
Colors are P2W to jpnz. Buying Max level characters isn't but having more colors is clearly P2W (even if you can use ingame currency).
Which is fine.
So why don't people clearly say "GW2 CHina is P2W due to paid colors for armor" and instead prefer "Mandatory VIP" or "P2W publisher" instead?
Because one has negative impact and the other doesn't.
P2W has always been associated to mathematical gameplay advantages.
The moment there are good games without sub fees and cashshops people change P2W to cosmetic advantages.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Most chinese players don't have an issue with this, just as korean players have almost no problem with lock boxes.
Just different cultures, things that would never work in the west are no problem in other regions, that's why companies prefer most other regions to the west. Easier and cheaper.
Exactly what I was saying. But a few arrogant westerners here seem to be trying to transplant their feelings onto Chinese players, and it's not working. In just the pages since I posted, I see someone posting that this means the NA version is going to change payment method... because of the way China does things.
At least give an example of what MMO this has happened with before, and if it has, tell us why it would even succeed here. I was wrong. People are still bitter about GW2 all these months later. It's sad as hell.
Are you aware of that most Westerners have no issues with it either :P?
I said a fewarrogant westerners here. That's very different from all of them. No, I expect a LOT of westerners that are anti-GW2 outside of this forum have common sense. But this forum has more of the former than the latter.
Two solid points remain - it shouldn't even matter to anyone on this side of the world AND it's not changing the way GW2 is bought/played here, like someone foolishly suggested. A new day, a new way to prove GW2 is the Obamachrist's devil candy I guess.
Yes, arrogant... a adjective to describe people who believes that as long as it does not affect them, it is not their problem. All possible rumors are imaginary, and discussions are moot.
Personally, if I am a fan of GW2, I will guarantee be upset if GW2 China has tried to change the marketing of the game, with VIP or what so ever, moreso if I am a player from China. The game encompass the company's name and reputation, and integrity is powerful in the corporate world. The Chinese players in China deserves the same privileges and benefits of gameplay as players from other countries, regardless of publishers.With GW2 International, it is buy to play with in game store; likewise GW2 China should follow it in a pragmatic way . Why should GW2 China change the way the game is paid for? Why Chinese gamers cannot have the same standard as international gamers?
Let's reverse it with a fictional event. If GW2 China suddenly gives out all the in game store items out as free or achievable by quests, will the international gamers not make noise? Because they also deserve the entitled treatment too, since GW2 China has started the trend? Will the international players just say "Oh it does not matter to me, and it does not affect my gameplay."? Money is Power. In gamers term, they want to pay less for more game.
Fans of GW2, do not just close your ears and say, "LALALALALALALA IT IS NOT HAPPENING TO MY GW2!!!" Analyze the situation, understand the consequences, and voice your concern. That is why right from my first post in this thread, I say it is bad, bad for gamers, for if it REALLY happens in GW2 China, it is opening up an opportunity for ANET or NcSoft to implement in GW2 International. And anything can happen, from gating zones, to reduced craft XP for non VIP, to just about anything possible! I am sure *most* GW2 gamers will not be happy with this.
You all have seen Archeage, and the mess created by the 1.0 update, and each publisher now comes out with their own version. GW2 China may be under another publisher, but money speak words. And money can make companies change their manifestos. Companies follow where the money goes.
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
Originally posted by zwei2 I was reading the official chinese website and forum, but cannot find the details for the VIP. I am probably too tired to even bother now. I just want to repeat what I had said : Companies follow where the money goes.
You're still confused.
For every finger you point at someone, you are pointing four other fingers (and thumb) to yourself. Why so work up?
If my opinions can change MMOs, GW2 China will definately not have mandatory VIP, because I will already make my opinion to have Vanguard crush all the competitors. Which, does not happen, of course, since it is just an opinion. Companies follow where the money goes is a relative term, like there is no physical proof to that, but it is common sense.
You're so quick to dismiss what I'm saying that you're not paying attention to what I actually said.
I'll explain it very carefully, in detail.
This has nothing to do with how I feel about GW2, or my opinions, this is a FACT. My issue is with the usage of 'mandatory VIP' (If you'll see my first post, you'll see my complaint is that I don't think the original poster knows what mandatory means), because it is an imaginary system that does not exist in any MMORPG either past, present or forseeable future.
GW2 in China is not going to have mandatory VIP. No game in China has ever had mandatory VIP. It's doubtful any MMORPG will EVER have a mandatory VIP program, in any country, ever.
The reason why, is because the terms 'mandatory' and 'VIP' aren't particularly compatible.
An example of something mandatory would be a game with a mandatory subscription. To be mandatory means it is mandated, that it is not a choice. You must do this to play the game. Subscriptions are often mandatory. Will GW2 every have a subscription? Doubtful, though I suppose it's possible. I'm not aware of any MMORPG that has switched TOWARDS a subscription service, but I might be missing something.
A VIP program stands for 'Very Important Person'. This is actually a popular mechanism in China, and the point to it is that people who pay EXTRA get VIP treatment. They get 'very important person' treatment, and the point is that by spending money, you can be SPECIAL, and BETTER than other people. One of the keys to this, is that not everybody has this. If every person playing the game has VIP status (Which is what it'd be if it was mandatory), then how could you feel better than other people? VIP status is exclusive (Optional), not inclusive (Mandatory).
Now. If you want to talk about how GW2 in China is going to have an optional VIP service, and how it's possible that the US might want to emulate that and add an optional VIP service, we could have a meaningful discussion, but you're talking about =something that doesn't exist, has never existed, and probably never will exist, for any game in China, the US, or the entire world=.
It's silly to talk about. No more talking about mandatory VIP service, please. All you have to do is change it to the word 'optional' instead of 'mandatory', or merely 'VIP service' (without the mandatory), and you'll be talking about something real, and this conversation can move forward.
Of course companies want to make money. But companies want to make money with systems that make sense and work (Like mandatory subscriptions, or optional VIP programs) and actually exist.
You keep thinking that I'm arguing about something that I'm not. My whole problem, this whole conversation, has been with the imaginary construction of 'the mandatory VIP program'. Go back and reread my messages and you'll see that's what I keep on saying.
I have no problem with the idea 'companies want to make money', or with you liking or not liking GW2, and while I could argue about the idea that the US will mimic the Chinese pay system, at no point in time was I arguing about that, because I was so busy trying to explain that mandatory VIP systems don't exist anywhere in the whole world of MMORPGs.
Personally, if I am a fan of GW2, I will guarantee be upset if GW2 China has tried to change the marketing of the game, with VIP or what so ever, moreso if I am a player from China. The game encompass the company's name and reputation, and integrity is powerful in the corporate world. The Chinese players in China deserves the same privileges and benefits of gameplay as players from other countries, regardless of publishers.With GW2 International, it is buy to play with in game store; likewise GW2 China should follow it in a pragmatic way . Why should GW2 China change the way the game is paid for? Why Chinese gamers cannot have the same standard as international gamers?
There are Chinese people who are unhappy with the change in methods. But part of the problem is that it is mandated (This is a good use of the word mandated or mandatory, by the way) by Chinese law, that MMORPGs released in China must be done through Chinese publishers. This puts a lot of power in the hands of the Chinese publishers, since they only have to compete with each other, not with companies from other countries.
Fans of GW2, do not just close your ears and say, "LALALALALALALA IT IS NOT HAPPENING TO MY GW2!!!" Analyze the situation, understand the consequences, and voice your concern. That is why right from my first post in this thread, I say it is bad, bad for gamers, for if it REALLY happens in GW2 China, it is opening up an opportunity for ANET or NcSoft to implement in GW2 International. And anything can happen, from gating zones, to reduced craft XP for non VIP, to just about anything possible! I am sure *most* GW2 gamers will not be happy with this.
I would probably care more if the Chinese VIP plan was anything at all like you just said, but it isn't. You get a special title, and a discount at the gem store, and some free gem store things. The only thing that's a bit questionable in my eyes, which I can't comment on too much because I'm not 100% sure how it works, is that there's the ability to teleport to your friends. If that can be used in WvW, that could be a bit P2W. But I really don't know how it works.
I do know that they're not (currently) gating zones or reducing XP gain for non-VIP, so while anything is theoretically possible, I'm not sure how productive it is to mention things they COULD be doing that'd be bad, other than to say 'well, that's crazy, sure hope they don't do that!'.
What a thread, I love it. GW2 brings so much feelings that I think this game will never die, trollers and fanbois just won't let that happend
Like moewhead said mandatory VIP isn't really existing anywhere cause it can't. Sure I see that there are a few differences between West and the China model but I don't think it's anything to cause conserns with, It's always different.
It's not like GW2 is the first company to do this they all do it. World of warcraft has different payment models in the east and this doesn't seem to upset anyone or making them think that it's gonna be like this here.
And the publisher part, almost every gaming company has someone else publishing the game for them even World of warcraft has Activision. As long as nobody signs with EA then we should all be ok with our favoite game
Yes, arrogant... a adjective to describe people who believes that as long as it does not affect them, it is not their problem. All possible rumors are imaginary, and discussions are moot.
Personally, if I am a fan of GW2, I will guarantee be upset if GW2 China has tried to change the marketing of the game, with VIP or what so ever, moreso if I am a player from China. The game encompass the company's name and reputation, and integrity is powerful in the corporate world. The Chinese players in China deserves the same privileges and benefits of gameplay as players from other countries, regardless of publishers.With GW2 International, it is buy to play with in game store; likewise GW2 China should follow it in a pragmatic way . Why should GW2 China change the way the game is paid for? Why Chinese gamers cannot have the same standard as international gamers?
Let's reverse it with a fictional event. If GW2 China suddenly gives out all the in game store items out as free or achievable by quests, will the international gamers not make noise? Because they also deserve the entitled treatment too, since GW2 China has started the trend? Will the international players just say "Oh it does not matter to me, and it does not affect my gameplay."? Money is Power. In gamers term, they want to pay less for more game.
Fans of GW2, do not just close your ears and say, "LALALALALALALA IT IS NOT HAPPENING TO MY GW2!!!" Analyze the situation, understand the consequences, and voice your concern. That is why right from my first post in this thread, I say it is bad, bad for gamers, for if it REALLY happens in GW2 China, it is opening up an opportunity for ANET or NcSoft to implement in GW2 International. And anything can happen, from gating zones, to reduced craft XP for non VIP, to just about anything possible! I am sure *most* GW2 gamers will not be happy with this.
You all have seen Archeage, and the mess created by the 1.0 update, and each publisher now comes out with their own version. GW2 China may be under another publisher, but money speak words. And money can make companies change their manifestos. Companies follow where the money goes.
Here we go again: ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN! BE PREPARED"*
*And remeber to ALWAYS wear your protective EYEWEAR
It's not like GW2 is the first company to do this they all do it. World of warcraft has different payment models in the east and this doesn't seem to upset anyone or making them think that it's gonna be like this here.
That's what zwei2 isn't even bothering to understand. Yes, anything could happen, but the way he's talking, it inevitably WILL happen, yet there is not an OUNCE of evidence to show that it's even happened before, so when I asked for an example and none was provided, I for one was not surprised.
By all previous logic, China's payment model isn't going to suddenly spring up in the west. There's no point in getting upset about something that has no chance of happening. ARROGANCE is when you think everything revolves around YOU. Let NCSoft do what they want in China and stop fear-mongering.
What a thread, I love it. GW2 brings so much feelings that I think this game will never die, trollers and fanbois just won't let that happend
Like moewhead said mandatory VIP isn't really existing anywhere cause it can't. Sure I see that there are a few differences between West and the China model but I don't think it's anything to cause conserns with, It's always different.
It's not like GW2 is the first company to do this they all do it. World of warcraft has different payment models in the east and this doesn't seem to upset anyone or making them think that it's gonna be like this here.
And the publisher part, almost every gaming company has someone else publishing the game for them even World of warcraft has Activision. As long as nobody signs with EA then we should all be ok with our favoite game
Mellow out dudes!
It actually used to bother the fanbois... until their game started doing it too, now it is no big deal and totally ok.
Back when WoW was the only one doing it, they weren't real subs and wow wasn't making any "real" money off of the chinese "subscribers", but now that gw2 is doing it, it's good business and perfectly fine.
Comments
Money speaks power. And companies follow where the money goes.
Misinformation or confusion, it doesn't matter. It is not happening now, doesn't means it will not happen in the future.
Money speaks power. This has applied in AAA games so far. Latest example is Archeage in Korea...
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
This thread reached new level of ridiculous.
Now they are claiming GW2 will go P2P all around. Yeah....sure, im laughing my face off, its THAT much funny.
Keep it up, so i always have something funny to read.
Wait. So. It's not happening in China, but =it doesn't matter=, because it might happen in the US, just because somebody erroneously mentioned it happening in China even though it isn't?
Okay.
Every game you love is going to change into a hundred dollar a month subscription because money.
Sorry.
It's now going to happen because I said it.
Look. At least try to read the comments carefully and make some sense in your replies.
And yes, if game companies are really that greedy, they can charge $100 monthly subscription for all they care, just because they can. Again, it is not happening now, doesn't means it will not happen in the future. And this applies to ALL games, where money is the true motivation.
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
They can't really charge $100 monthly sub fee because there is a competitive market.
In fact many games try to charge $15/month and they simply can't.
I've been reading all about Arenanet becoming ready to flood both GW1 and GW2 with P2W for years now and hasn't happened.
In fact, GW1 sold stuff like skill and item unlock packs for PvP and mercenary heroes for PvE that probably have much more impact than anything that you can buy in GW2.
PS: By the way, are you zwei2stein for guildwarsguru.com?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Companies follow where the money goes. The $100/month is just an example another poster gave.
As I had mentioned, it is not happening now, does not means it will not happen in the future. I do have to stress that it is not a MUST that it will happen, but rather a probability. It could be high, it could be near nil, but it is still there. Unless the game company comes up with a physical paper clause that "will refund or even compensate players if the game company break or stray the game from their visions", anything is possible.
And no, I am not who you think as.
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
Yeah, and theres probability that world will end tomorrow so better prepare! DDDOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMM
Game that could charge 100$/month and still keep million+ players can simply be called: awesome.
If you have a product that is THAT awesome and players are ready to pay for such awesomness: go right ahead. Simply put 200-300 million $ projects failed to make people pay even 15/month. GW2 is so successful because it has the right mix of high quality/monetization, their premise was from the start: game is B2P but if players see it worthy they will spend some money. And quite enough players see it worthy to spend money beyond the box purchase. Its pretty simple.
I have a hard time understanding what you wrote, but the game is doing good.+ GW2 always had massive inconsistency across it's worlds, for many reasons;
GW2 has many zones that you can level in. You can stay in the level 1-15 zone and level all the way to lvl 80 effectively. It doesn't matter with scaling. Not only that, but WvW and crafting, and resource gathering, and personal stories and dungeons are all efficent and fast ways to level. GW2 is not a grind based game, so you don't see that many people in the open world, because they are not forced too.
This is the main reason for server merges.
The anticipation rate in sPvP is almost dead at this point, but the entry level I have seen for WvW is very very high, and has just become more popular with EOTM and the improvements they made to WvW. At least on the servers I have been on.
Finally, it's important to understand that just Guild Wars 1, GW2 is a game that can be played in smaller chunks of time and less often. The game is not as time demanding as many other MMOs so it's normal for Guild Wars players to take breaks. You get a lot of un-traditional MMO players who don't spend that much time playing. But this doesn't mean they are not active. Just that they play in less intervals.
I think GW2 has less players than the initial launch influx, but I think it then has grown a lot since then, and I think it's in the best state it has ever been in. The bots are gone, the economy is stable, there is some really solid additions like Fractals of the Mist dungeons, many quality of life gameplay improvements, guild missions which really give purpose to the game, the achievement unlock system and so on and so forth.
Exactly what I was saying. But a few arrogant westerners here seem to be trying to transplant their feelings onto Chinese players, and it's not working. In just the pages since I posted, I see someone posting that this means the NA version is going to change payment method... because of the way China does things.
At least give an example of what MMO this has happened with before, and if it has, tell us why it would even succeed here. I was wrong. People are still bitter about GW2 all these months later. It's sad as hell.
Arenanet was an independent company. How they wanted to publish their games was something they had to decide. They could have gone the GGG way, by hiring relevant people themselves to publish their games. Instead, they chose to give up ownership of their own company. With any choice comes responsibility.
As for the movie director: your example gives far too little information about what choices the movie director did, for me to be able to accurately give a statement regarding whether they are responsible or not.
Are you aware of that most Westerners have no issues with it either :P?
Regarding your Arenanet statements: if the "facts" you embedded are true and one is of the opinion that those facts are positive, then yes it should reflect positively on Arenanet.
You have a very black and white opinion of the world. All I can say is that ArenaNet let themselves be bought as they couldn't finance the game on their own. At the time NCsoft was the biggest MMO publisher in the world (because of Lineage).
Your argument is a straw man because ArenaNet as a small developer had no skills or finances for publishing a game themselves. This is why all sorts of game developers let companies like EA and Activision publish their games. If they don't, their games won't get made. Pitching is really really hard in any industry, but particularly so in the games industry.
When you externalize work out to people who are experts in the field of what is being externalized too, you do give up freedom, because rarely do you have a mega company that can do anything but themselves. If you hold up someone to a standard that people should take responsibility for something they don't know about, then I don't know what to tell you.
I assume ArenaNet would have remained truly free of publishers had they had the capita.
I think you are very wrong when you suggest it's ArenaNets fault. They trust NCsoft to make the right choice on their behalf, just as NCsoft trusts them to make good game development desicions. That's a synergy that requires responsibility on both parts, not the one-shoe-fits-all model you are describing. Nobody who works in the industry would blame a developer for publishing choices. I really don't think so.
But you can believe what you want to believe, I guess.
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
You're still confused.
There's no mandatory VIP in China.
Either you don't understand what the word mandatory means (Look it up using the dictionary), or you don't understand how to properly phrase a hypothetical. The part I am going to outline in red =is not true=. If you want to say 'Maybe some day GW2 will have mandatory VIP', then you could say that, though you'd be wrong, because that either shows that you don't understand what the word mandatory means, or that you don't understand what VIP means.
If you had a mandatory VIP program, it wouldn't be VIP anymore.
This has nothing to do with me liking the game or not, this has to do with facts.
You could say 'If the moon was made out of cheese then we could ship rockets full of mice up there and they would eat the moon', and that'd be a purely hypothetical situation.
But you can't say 'The moon is made out of cheese' and expect anybody to take you seriously.
I am going to repeat this again. The part you wrote in red is WRONG. It is not true. There is no mandatory VIP program in China. The person writing the original post was wrong. The very CONCEPT of a mandatory VIP program is silly.
You do not have mandatory VIP programs. You could have a mandatory subscription, but that is not the same thing.
You could have an optional VIP program (And GW2 china is apparently going to have one of those), but that is not mandatory.
Please. Look up the word mandatory and what VIP programs mean, before you accuse somebody of disagreeing with you because they like GW2. I am disagreeing with you because you are saying something that is completely wrong, based off of a subject header that is completely wrong.
Not only something that is completely wrong, but something that is LESS likely than all subscription games suddenly all deciding to move to a hundred dollar a month fee, starting next week.
Because 'mandatory' and 'VIP' don't go together.
Now, if you want to say 'Chinese GW2 will be buy to play... with optional VIP. Next, maybe GW2 NA will be buy to play... with optional VIP', we could then have a discussion that is based off of a realistic and true starting point, and we could discuss how likely it is that GW2 NA will decide to move to an optional VIP program.
But please. Mandatory VIP is not a thing, and will not be a thing, because making it mandatory makes it not a VIP program.
For every finger you point at someone, you are pointing four other fingers (and thumb) to yourself. Why so work up?
If my opinions can change MMOs, GW2 China will definately not have mandatory VIP, because I will already make my opinion to have Vanguard crush all the competitors. Which, does not happen, of course, since it is just an opinion. Companies follow where the money goes is a relative term, like there is no physical proof to that, but it is common sense.
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
All that matters is in RED.
Colors are P2W to jpnz. Buying Max level characters isn't but having more colors is clearly P2W (even if you can use ingame currency).
Which is fine.
So why don't people clearly say "GW2 CHina is P2W due to paid colors for armor" and instead prefer "Mandatory VIP" or "P2W publisher" instead?
Because one has negative impact and the other doesn't.
P2W has always been associated to mathematical gameplay advantages.
The moment there are good games without sub fees and cashshops people change P2W to cosmetic advantages.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I said a few arrogant westerners here. That's very different from all of them. No, I expect a LOT of westerners that are anti-GW2 outside of this forum have common sense. But this forum has more of the former than the latter.
Two solid points remain - it shouldn't even matter to anyone on this side of the world AND it's not changing the way GW2 is bought/played here, like someone foolishly suggested. A new day, a new way to prove GW2 is the Obamachrist's devil candy I guess.
Yes, arrogant... a adjective to describe people who believes that as long as it does not affect them, it is not their problem. All possible rumors are imaginary, and discussions are moot.
Personally, if I am a fan of GW2, I will guarantee be upset if GW2 China has tried to change the marketing of the game, with VIP or what so ever, moreso if I am a player from China. The game encompass the company's name and reputation, and integrity is powerful in the corporate world. The Chinese players in China deserves the same privileges and benefits of gameplay as players from other countries, regardless of publishers.With GW2 International, it is buy to play with in game store; likewise GW2 China should follow it in a pragmatic way . Why should GW2 China change the way the game is paid for? Why Chinese gamers cannot have the same standard as international gamers?
Let's reverse it with a fictional event. If GW2 China suddenly gives out all the in game store items out as free or achievable by quests, will the international gamers not make noise? Because they also deserve the entitled treatment too, since GW2 China has started the trend? Will the international players just say "Oh it does not matter to me, and it does not affect my gameplay."? Money is Power. In gamers term, they want to pay less for more game.
Fans of GW2, do not just close your ears and say, "LALALALALALALA IT IS NOT HAPPENING TO MY GW2!!!" Analyze the situation, understand the consequences, and voice your concern. That is why right from my first post in this thread, I say it is bad, bad for gamers, for if it REALLY happens in GW2 China, it is opening up an opportunity for ANET or NcSoft to implement in GW2 International. And anything can happen, from gating zones, to reduced craft XP for non VIP, to just about anything possible! I am sure *most* GW2 gamers will not be happy with this.
You all have seen Archeage, and the mess created by the 1.0 update, and each publisher now comes out with their own version. GW2 China may be under another publisher, but money speak words. And money can make companies change their manifestos. Companies follow where the money goes.
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
You're so quick to dismiss what I'm saying that you're not paying attention to what I actually said.
I'll explain it very carefully, in detail.
This has nothing to do with how I feel about GW2, or my opinions, this is a FACT. My issue is with the usage of 'mandatory VIP' (If you'll see my first post, you'll see my complaint is that I don't think the original poster knows what mandatory means), because it is an imaginary system that does not exist in any MMORPG either past, present or forseeable future.
GW2 in China is not going to have mandatory VIP. No game in China has ever had mandatory VIP. It's doubtful any MMORPG will EVER have a mandatory VIP program, in any country, ever.
The reason why, is because the terms 'mandatory' and 'VIP' aren't particularly compatible.
An example of something mandatory would be a game with a mandatory subscription. To be mandatory means it is mandated, that it is not a choice. You must do this to play the game. Subscriptions are often mandatory. Will GW2 every have a subscription? Doubtful, though I suppose it's possible. I'm not aware of any MMORPG that has switched TOWARDS a subscription service, but I might be missing something.
A VIP program stands for 'Very Important Person'. This is actually a popular mechanism in China, and the point to it is that people who pay EXTRA get VIP treatment. They get 'very important person' treatment, and the point is that by spending money, you can be SPECIAL, and BETTER than other people. One of the keys to this, is that not everybody has this. If every person playing the game has VIP status (Which is what it'd be if it was mandatory), then how could you feel better than other people? VIP status is exclusive (Optional), not inclusive (Mandatory).
Now. If you want to talk about how GW2 in China is going to have an optional VIP service, and how it's possible that the US might want to emulate that and add an optional VIP service, we could have a meaningful discussion, but you're talking about =something that doesn't exist, has never existed, and probably never will exist, for any game in China, the US, or the entire world=.
It's silly to talk about. No more talking about mandatory VIP service, please. All you have to do is change it to the word 'optional' instead of 'mandatory', or merely 'VIP service' (without the mandatory), and you'll be talking about something real, and this conversation can move forward.
Of course companies want to make money. But companies want to make money with systems that make sense and work (Like mandatory subscriptions, or optional VIP programs) and actually exist.
You keep thinking that I'm arguing about something that I'm not. My whole problem, this whole conversation, has been with the imaginary construction of 'the mandatory VIP program'. Go back and reread my messages and you'll see that's what I keep on saying.
I have no problem with the idea 'companies want to make money', or with you liking or not liking GW2, and while I could argue about the idea that the US will mimic the Chinese pay system, at no point in time was I arguing about that, because I was so busy trying to explain that mandatory VIP systems don't exist anywhere in the whole world of MMORPGs.
WOW!!!!
What a thread, I love it. GW2 brings so much feelings that I think this game will never die, trollers and fanbois just won't let that happend
Like moewhead said mandatory VIP isn't really existing anywhere cause it can't. Sure I see that there are a few differences between West and the China model but I don't think it's anything to cause conserns with, It's always different.
It's not like GW2 is the first company to do this they all do it. World of warcraft has different payment models in the east and this doesn't seem to upset anyone or making them think that it's gonna be like this here.
And the publisher part, almost every gaming company has someone else publishing the game for them even World of warcraft has Activision. As long as nobody signs with EA then we should all be ok with our favoite game
Mellow out dudes!
Here we go again: ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN! BE PREPARED"*
*And remeber to ALWAYS wear your protective EYEWEAR
That's what zwei2 isn't even bothering to understand. Yes, anything could happen, but the way he's talking, it inevitably WILL happen, yet there is not an OUNCE of evidence to show that it's even happened before, so when I asked for an example and none was provided, I for one was not surprised.
By all previous logic, China's payment model isn't going to suddenly spring up in the west. There's no point in getting upset about something that has no chance of happening. ARROGANCE is when you think everything revolves around YOU. Let NCSoft do what they want in China and stop fear-mongering.
It actually used to bother the fanbois... until their game started doing it too, now it is no big deal and totally ok.
Back when WoW was the only one doing it, they weren't real subs and wow wasn't making any "real" money off of the chinese "subscribers", but now that gw2 is doing it, it's good business and perfectly fine.