What a thread, I love it. GW2 brings so much feelings that I think this game will never die, trollers and fanbois just won't let that happend
Like moewhead said mandatory VIP isn't really existing anywhere cause it can't. Sure I see that there are a few differences between West and the China model but I don't think it's anything to cause conserns with, It's always different.
It's not like GW2 is the first company to do this they all do it. World of warcraft has different payment models in the east and this doesn't seem to upset anyone or making them think that it's gonna be like this here.
And the publisher part, almost every gaming company has someone else publishing the game for them even World of warcraft has Activision. As long as nobody signs with EA then we should all be ok with our favoite game
Mellow out dudes!
It actually used to bother the fanbois... until their game started doing it too, now it is no big deal and totally ok.
Back when WoW was the only one doing it, they weren't real subs and wow wasn't making any "real" money off of the chinese "subscribers", but now that gw2 is doing it, it's good business and perfectly fine.
No non-Chinese company makes huge money out of their games in China.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Guys, I know it will be a long wall of post, but I'm sure you can all read it !
Also to anyone who's wondering -why- the Asian release would have VIP features:
-In China, the government regulates gaming, especially foreign MMOs- see this post[1] .
-Tiered VIP memberships for MMOs in Asian territories are not new. One popular Asian MMO, Blade and Soul, has TEN VIP membership tiers, with the top tier costing around $140 a month or something in that ballpark. (Edit: According to a poster in the other thread, it's $65. Not really relevant, but hey.)
-Pay-to-win models are MUCH more widely accepted in Asian territories. I'm not going to go into why.
-The datamined stuff is in English because most Anet devs can't read Chinese.
Some more
It's basically youth culture in China. For the first time in years, a lot of Chinese are becoming affluent. Money is huge, and so is showing that you have money. Wealth is considered vital for happiness (and it's not just about owning nice things, but being able to securely support a family. Though increasingly for the younger generations, it's about owning nice things.)
There's also the single-child phenomenon, where due to Chinese law regulating that each family may only have one child, a lot of kids grow up as only children and get doted on and, well, spoiled. It's a common gripe among the older generations, that Chinese youth is too selfish and materialistic and doesn't care for the family, which for centuries was the root of Chinese culture.
Add that up, and you get stuff like people paying professional essay-writers to write their college entry essays for them. Or this quote from a single woman looking for a husband- "I'd rather cry in the back of my husband's SUV than smile on the back of his bicycle," ie rather be depressed with a rich husband than happily in love with a poor one. Then there's the fact that a lot of young Chinese men are struggling to get married because they're not rich, and therefore being passed over.
As for where I'm getting this from, my entire blood family is Chinese- either citizens of or immigrated from China. This is something that gets talked about a lot in my family. One of my cousins is unfortunately the spitting image of the selfish only child- her mother calls my mother often to cry and ask for help. Once, she was injured after my cousin hit her over a disagreement. It's also something that gets covered in Chinese media- that quote I mentioned came from a Chinese dating game show. I believe National Geographic's written about it as well.
Of course, this doesn't mean ALL Chinese youth are obsessed with money and showing it off, but it's definitely a thing.
Tl;dr Chinese youth culture is very money/material success-oriented and it shows in their gaming.
EDIT: That's China, at least. I can't speak for Korea or other countries.
It actually used to bother the fanbois... until their game started doing it too, now it is no big deal and totally ok.
Back when WoW was the only one doing it, they weren't real subs and wow wasn't making any "real" money off of the chinese "subscribers", but now that gw2 is doing it, it's good business and perfectly fine.
? Isn't that internally consistent though? That would be acknowledging that the Chinese pricing structure is different.
I never have said that the Chinese WoW pricing model was BAD, just that it's not a subscription system as people in the west think of it. And it's not. And it seemed disingenuous to conflate the numbers of players in China with normal subscriptions.
It's not 'is what the people are doing in China good business' (It's their own business, because of governmental regulations), but 'are Chinese people really paying the same way people in the US are?'
In the case of both WoW and GW2, the answer is 'no'.
It actually used to bother the fanbois... until their game started doing it too, now it is no big deal and totally ok.
Back when WoW was the only one doing it, they weren't real subs and wow wasn't making any "real" money off of the chinese "subscribers", but now that gw2 is doing it, it's good business and perfectly fine.
Perhaps it is how adaptive gamers are. A true fan of a game will easily accept the changes a company does to the game. I believe that when WOW started the first in game store items, there are unhappy gamers who question the move. Some may leave, but most will just stay due to not affecting them.
This has a snowball effect, where other companies predict that gamers will still play their game, which has both subscription fees and in game stores, and bring this into their game. Sure, gamers will definately complain, but leavers are few, for most gamers and fans already had spent quite some time in their game, and will just stay. Fanatics will even fervently support their decisions regardless.
Like testing water, if gamers allow it to happen, that action will become the "in" thing as a blueprint for future games to follow. Just like the first f2p game (I don't know which one btw) scores $$$, a slew of cheap f2p start flooding the market, hoping to get the whales spend gazillion amount of money in their game before the companies create newer cheap f2ps.
How does this link to the topic? China games, any game, may have their own way of payment as such, be it f2p or not. Not saying it will affect their international counterpart, but having a different payment in China allows game companies to test water. And judging from past games making changes to their game to increase profit, it does allow foresight in how companies are willing to improve the game's payment scheme to increase the "longevity" of their games.
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
It actually used to bother the fanbois... until their game started doing it too, now it is no big deal and totally ok.
Back when WoW was the only one doing it, they weren't real subs and wow wasn't making any "real" money off of the chinese "subscribers", but now that gw2 is doing it, it's good business and perfectly fine.
? Isn't that internally consistent though? That would be acknowledging that the Chinese pricing structure is different.
I never have said that the Chinese WoW pricing model was BAD, just that it's not a subscription system as people in the west think of it. And it's not. And it seemed disingenuous to conflate the numbers of players in China with normal subscriptions.
It's not 'is what the people are doing in China good business' (It's their own business, because of governmental regulations), but 'are Chinese people really paying the same way people in the US are?'
In the case of both WoW and GW2, the answer is 'no'.
So. Internally consistent. See?
Actually they might be even paying more but the lion share of that revenue won't be seen by Blizzard or NCSoft.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Understand that ignorance plays a part in thinking "It had never happen before, and it will not happen now." A lot of things do not need an example as a precursor for an event to happen. What differentiate between "may happen" and "will happen" is depending on how people perceives the trend of the MMO market now.
Like what I had said in my previous post, changes may not happen immediately. Testing water is always done. As long as the playerbase does not suddenly drop to 0 due to an introduction of a change in payment mode, these changes are feasible and implementable. And as per domino effect, that change will open new markets to all the future games. It is similar to how gamers proclaiming GW2's payment mode holds the key to how future games shall follow.
Positive changes are always welcomed, but negative changes still lurk about, waiting for the right opportunity to strike and leaving no chance for the victims to retaliate. IGNORANCE is when you think it will never affect you, no matter what.
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
Understand that ignorance plays a part in thinking "It had never happen before, and it will not happen now." A lot of things do not need an example as a precursor for an event to happen. What differentiate between "may happen" and "will happen" is depending on how people perceives the trend of the MMO market now.
Like what I had said in my previous post, changes may not happen immediately. Testing water is always done. As long as the playerbase does not suddenly drop to 0 due to an introduction of a change in payment mode, these changes are feasible and implementable. And as per domino effect, that change will open new markets to all the future games. It is similar to how gamers proclaiming GW2's payment mode holds the key to how future games shall follow.
Positive changes are always welcomed, but negative changes still lurk about, waiting for the right opportunity to strike and leaving no chance for the victims to retaliate. IGNORANCE is when you think it will never affect you, no matter what.
Why would they test the waters in China for changes in the western market?
2 completely different markets.
Why didn't they test changes for the Chinese market in the western market?
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
We all know Chinese workers put up with crap Americans won't ever tolerate (or at least won't tolerate as of now). So why be surprised if those Chinese consumers capable of having luxury items here and there put up with things Americans won't?
If we're going to start having some solidarity with the Chinese, let's start with working conditions, not luxury goods, mmkay?
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
@zwei I never said it could never happen, I said you had no evidence to show that it would. Anything's possible, that does not mean everything's probable. Do you understand that? Going by your posts, I don't think you do.
And please, don't call me or anyone else ignorant here after your terrible argument. Thanks in advance.
Comments
No non-Chinese company makes huge money out of their games in China.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Guys, I know it will be a long wall of post, but I'm sure you can all read it !
Also to anyone who's wondering -why- the Asian release would have VIP features:
-In China, the government regulates gaming, especially foreign MMOs- see this post[1] .
-Tiered VIP memberships for MMOs in Asian territories are not new. One popular Asian MMO, Blade and Soul, has TEN VIP membership tiers, with the top tier costing around $140 a month or something in that ballpark. (Edit: According to a poster in the other thread, it's $65. Not really relevant, but hey.)
-Pay-to-win models are MUCH more widely accepted in Asian territories. I'm not going to go into why.
-The datamined stuff is in English because most Anet devs can't read Chinese.
Some more
It's basically youth culture in China. For the first time in years, a lot of Chinese are becoming affluent. Money is huge, and so is showing that you have money. Wealth is considered vital for happiness (and it's not just about owning nice things, but being able to securely support a family. Though increasingly for the younger generations, it's about owning nice things.)
There's also the single-child phenomenon, where due to Chinese law regulating that each family may only have one child, a lot of kids grow up as only children and get doted on and, well, spoiled. It's a common gripe among the older generations, that Chinese youth is too selfish and materialistic and doesn't care for the family, which for centuries was the root of Chinese culture.
Add that up, and you get stuff like people paying professional essay-writers to write their college entry essays for them. Or this quote from a single woman looking for a husband- "I'd rather cry in the back of my husband's SUV than smile on the back of his bicycle," ie rather be depressed with a rich husband than happily in love with a poor one. Then there's the fact that a lot of young Chinese men are struggling to get married because they're not rich, and therefore being passed over.
As for where I'm getting this from, my entire blood family is Chinese- either citizens of or immigrated from China. This is something that gets talked about a lot in my family. One of my cousins is unfortunately the spitting image of the selfish only child- her mother calls my mother often to cry and ask for help. Once, she was injured after my cousin hit her over a disagreement. It's also something that gets covered in Chinese media- that quote I mentioned came from a Chinese dating game show. I believe National Geographic's written about it as well.
Of course, this doesn't mean ALL Chinese youth are obsessed with money and showing it off, but it's definitely a thing.
Tl;dr Chinese youth culture is very money/material success-oriented and it shows in their gaming.
EDIT: That's China, at least. I can't speak for Korea or other countries.
Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1utx8p/data_mining_vip_membership/
? Isn't that internally consistent though? That would be acknowledging that the Chinese pricing structure is different.
I never have said that the Chinese WoW pricing model was BAD, just that it's not a subscription system as people in the west think of it. And it's not. And it seemed disingenuous to conflate the numbers of players in China with normal subscriptions.
It's not 'is what the people are doing in China good business' (It's their own business, because of governmental regulations), but 'are Chinese people really paying the same way people in the US are?'
In the case of both WoW and GW2, the answer is 'no'.
So. Internally consistent. See?
Perhaps it is how adaptive gamers are. A true fan of a game will easily accept the changes a company does to the game. I believe that when WOW started the first in game store items, there are unhappy gamers who question the move. Some may leave, but most will just stay due to not affecting them.
This has a snowball effect, where other companies predict that gamers will still play their game, which has both subscription fees and in game stores, and bring this into their game. Sure, gamers will definately complain, but leavers are few, for most gamers and fans already had spent quite some time in their game, and will just stay. Fanatics will even fervently support their decisions regardless.
Like testing water, if gamers allow it to happen, that action will become the "in" thing as a blueprint for future games to follow. Just like the first f2p game (I don't know which one btw) scores $$$, a slew of cheap f2p start flooding the market, hoping to get the whales spend gazillion amount of money in their game before the companies create newer cheap f2ps.
How does this link to the topic? China games, any game, may have their own way of payment as such, be it f2p or not. Not saying it will affect their international counterpart, but having a different payment in China allows game companies to test water. And judging from past games making changes to their game to increase profit, it does allow foresight in how companies are willing to improve the game's payment scheme to increase the "longevity" of their games.
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
Actually they might be even paying more but the lion share of that revenue won't be seen by Blizzard or NCSoft.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Understand that ignorance plays a part in thinking "It had never happen before, and it will not happen now." A lot of things do not need an example as a precursor for an event to happen. What differentiate between "may happen" and "will happen" is depending on how people perceives the trend of the MMO market now.
Like what I had said in my previous post, changes may not happen immediately. Testing water is always done. As long as the playerbase does not suddenly drop to 0 due to an introduction of a change in payment mode, these changes are feasible and implementable. And as per domino effect, that change will open new markets to all the future games. It is similar to how gamers proclaiming GW2's payment mode holds the key to how future games shall follow.
Positive changes are always welcomed, but negative changes still lurk about, waiting for the right opportunity to strike and leaving no chance for the victims to retaliate. IGNORANCE is when you think it will never affect you, no matter what.
The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.
Why would they test the waters in China for changes in the western market?
2 completely different markets.
Why didn't they test changes for the Chinese market in the western market?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
We all know Chinese workers put up with crap Americans won't ever tolerate (or at least won't tolerate as of now). So why be surprised if those Chinese consumers capable of having luxury items here and there put up with things Americans won't?
If we're going to start having some solidarity with the Chinese, let's start with working conditions, not luxury goods, mmkay?
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
@zwei I never said it could never happen, I said you had no evidence to show that it would. Anything's possible, that does not mean everything's probable. Do you understand that? Going by your posts, I don't think you do.
And please, don't call me or anyone else ignorant here after your terrible argument. Thanks in advance.