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TESO: It's not me, it's you

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  • HordequesterHordequester Member UncommonPosts: 28
    Originally posted by syriinx
    Originally posted by Uhwop

    Zeni online didn't have a problem giving him a refund, but a few fans seem to have such a problem with it that they attach his "character" and morals.  

    Shameful.  

    Well the 'fans' are 100% correct.  

    By the way I hated ESO, I couldnt last 20 minutes with the miserable clunky combat.  But the OP is without question wrong for asking for a refund regardless of if Zenimax caved or not.  i can guarantee you they didnt do it because they felt he deserved it.

    If they didn't, then they are the ones in the wrong. A customer bought a product that was no longer functioning properly and wanted a refund because it was no longer functioning properly. Any non-software company that tried to pull that shit would be out of business so fast it'd make your head spin.

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  • GhavriggGhavrigg Member RarePosts: 1,308
    Originally posted by Hordequester
    Originally posted by Ghavrigg
    Originally posted by Hordequester
    Originally posted by syriinx
    Originally posted by makasouleater69
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

    Sad to say but today I'll be quitting Elder Scrolls Online. The battle to try and enjoy this game has ended and my VR5 character's journey will come to a close. Not because I want to but because I'm essentially forced to. I cannot progress through the game due to the sheer amount of bugs. Just like the issues with the main story line my character cannot progress into the VR6-10 zones because I cannot finish the 'Cadwell's Almanac" requirements. I've spent several days logging out, repeating, and repairing the game but to no avail I cannot progress.

    I suppose I'll send in an e-mail to Zenimax tell them I want to obtain a refund and go back to playing less frustrating games like Dark Souls 2 since it just released. Seriously the game was fun when it worked but it has been an uphill struggle that has only become worse the further I progress. From falling through the world, not being able to use my skills and abilities, not being able to auto-attack, not being able to use my siege equipment, many broken quests many of which won't be fixed on the 1.1 patch release, to the infinite load screens, network I/O issues, the memory leak, and various other bugs or exploits.

    Good by my little lizard man~ I'll miss you but I must move on and to commemorate this occasion a video:

    Man how can you expect a refund. You put more hours into eso, then i play computer in a month. 

    Exactly.  He doesnt deserve a refund.  Its completely ludicrous to even ask for one in these circumstances.

    You make your statement by cancelling sub.  Asking for a refund for a game that you put days into is a shitty thing to do.

     

    Its not like the game is Vanguard.  It has an above average amount of bugs but bugs are EXPECTED in a newly released MMORPG.  if you dont expect them you are an unreasonable person, doubly so if they are endgame bugs and you rush to the endgame.

     

    Next time just wait two months after launch.

    So, if my TV stops working after using it..I should wait a few months and hope it fixes itself?

    Uhhh... in this case, he can still use his computer, and he apparently could get around any issues if he actually wanted to, and he could always have PvP'd and stuff for now until some stuff got fixed, or crafted, or whatever else to continue upgrading the character until things fixed up a bit.

    Not like there's much of a point in rushing beyond PvP at the moment anyway.

     

    He didn't pay $90 for a computer..he paid $90 for a functioning game to play and can no longer play it the way he was playing. That is more than enough reason to get a refund with any other product on the market.

    You focused on the wrong part. I said the computer because he could at least use the computer in this case, whereas a broken TV means he'd be left with no entertainment period from that entertainment venue.

    As for the product at hand: In this case, the game is playable; he had other routes for character progression that he refused to use in the mean-time, as the game is being PATCHED FREQUENTLY and the first major update is on its way. The problems will be fixed with patience. Unlike a TV.

  • MargraveMargrave Member RarePosts: 1,371
    So long.... Thanks for all the fish.
  • syriinxsyriinx Member UncommonPosts: 1,383
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
     

    Elder Scrolls Online, the 30 or so gigs I've downloaded is "goods" the service would be the account that I'm using to access my "goods". You own the CD/Software you purchased. The product I'm holding in my hands is defective. When I'm using it it's not working. I can state various issues within the product that don't work as I have them documented.

    The refund isn't out of goodwill it's due to the fact that they're selling a defective product.

    In that case every single MMORPG on the market without *any* exceptions is a defective product and we should all go ask for refunds.

    The less morally deplorable option would have been to ask for a credit for the remaining free time as well as any time since you have hit the VR5 bug to be used once the issues with your particular playstyle have been addressed.

  • Allacore69Allacore69 Member Posts: 839

    Originally posted by Margrave
    So long.... Thanks for all the fish.


    This^^^^^^

    +1

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
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  • HordequesterHordequester Member UncommonPosts: 28
    Originally posted by Ghavrigg
    Originally posted by Hordequester
    Originally posted by Ghavrigg
    Originally posted by Hordequester
    Originally posted by syriinx
    Originally posted by makasouleater69
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

    Sad to say but today I'll be quitting Elder Scrolls Online. The battle to try and enjoy this game has ended and my VR5 character's journey will come to a close. Not because I want to but because I'm essentially forced to. I cannot progress through the game due to the sheer amount of bugs. Just like the issues with the main story line my character cannot progress into the VR6-10 zones because I cannot finish the 'Cadwell's Almanac" requirements. I've spent several days logging out, repeating, and repairing the game but to no avail I cannot progress.

    I suppose I'll send in an e-mail to Zenimax tell them I want to obtain a refund and go back to playing less frustrating games like Dark Souls 2 since it just released. Seriously the game was fun when it worked but it has been an uphill struggle that has only become worse the further I progress. From falling through the world, not being able to use my skills and abilities, not being able to auto-attack, not being able to use my siege equipment, many broken quests many of which won't be fixed on the 1.1 patch release, to the infinite load screens, network I/O issues, the memory leak, and various other bugs or exploits.

    Good by my little lizard man~ I'll miss you but I must move on and to commemorate this occasion a video:

    Man how can you expect a refund. You put more hours into eso, then i play computer in a month. 

    Exactly.  He doesnt deserve a refund.  Its completely ludicrous to even ask for one in these circumstances.

    You make your statement by cancelling sub.  Asking for a refund for a game that you put days into is a shitty thing to do.

     

    Its not like the game is Vanguard.  It has an above average amount of bugs but bugs are EXPECTED in a newly released MMORPG.  if you dont expect them you are an unreasonable person, doubly so if they are endgame bugs and you rush to the endgame.

     

    Next time just wait two months after launch.

    So, if my TV stops working after using it..I should wait a few months and hope it fixes itself?

    Uhhh... in this case, he can still use his computer, and he apparently could get around any issues if he actually wanted to, and he could always have PvP'd and stuff for now until some stuff got fixed, or crafted, or whatever else to continue upgrading the character until things fixed up a bit.

    Not like there's much of a point in rushing beyond PvP at the moment anyway.

     

    He didn't pay $90 for a computer..he paid $90 for a functioning game to play and can no longer play it the way he was playing. That is more than enough reason to get a refund with any other product on the market.

    You focused on the wrong part. I said the computer because he could at least use the computer in this case, whereas a broken TV means he'd be left with no entertainment period from that entertainment venue.

    As for the product at hand: In this case, the game is playable; he had other routes for character progression that he refused to use in the mean-time, as the game is being PATCHED FREQUENTLY and the first major update is on its way. The problems will be fixed with patience. Unlike a TV.

    You're not following a logical pattern here..I wasn't saying the power in my house wasn't working..I was saying the TV wasn't working..which is where the game would be in this analogy. The computer would be the power that runs the game. So, the computer still working doesn't make any sense..since he is not trying to get a refund on the computer.

    Here in the US products are required to have an implied warranty. This means the product is guaranteed to "do what it is supposed to do". Software is obviously exempt from this..because of sketchy terms and usage practices that have not been challenged in court as of yet. The length of implied warranties vary by state and can be as long as four years.

    As for the problems being fixed with patience, that's only an excuse that's acceptable in software..you pay upfront for something that MIGHT work later on. There's no real sense to that at all. If it doesn't work the way it's supposed to at purchase and you're not happy with that, then there's no reason not to get a refund. Except that the law pounds consumers in the ass when it comes to software.

     

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
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    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • GhavriggGhavrigg Member RarePosts: 1,308
    Originally posted by Hordequester
    Originally posted by Ghavrigg
    Originally posted by Hordequester
    Originally posted by Ghavrigg
    Originally posted by Hordequester
    Originally posted by syriinx
    Originally posted by makasouleater69
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

    Sad to say but today I'll be quitting Elder Scrolls Online. The battle to try and enjoy this game has ended and my VR5 character's journey will come to a close. Not because I want to but because I'm essentially forced to. I cannot progress through the game due to the sheer amount of bugs. Just like the issues with the main story line my character cannot progress into the VR6-10 zones because I cannot finish the 'Cadwell's Almanac" requirements. I've spent several days logging out, repeating, and repairing the game but to no avail I cannot progress.

    I suppose I'll send in an e-mail to Zenimax tell them I want to obtain a refund and go back to playing less frustrating games like Dark Souls 2 since it just released. Seriously the game was fun when it worked but it has been an uphill struggle that has only become worse the further I progress. From falling through the world, not being able to use my skills and abilities, not being able to auto-attack, not being able to use my siege equipment, many broken quests many of which won't be fixed on the 1.1 patch release, to the infinite load screens, network I/O issues, the memory leak, and various other bugs or exploits.

    Good by my little lizard man~ I'll miss you but I must move on and to commemorate this occasion a video:

    Man how can you expect a refund. You put more hours into eso, then i play computer in a month. 

    Exactly.  He doesnt deserve a refund.  Its completely ludicrous to even ask for one in these circumstances.

    You make your statement by cancelling sub.  Asking for a refund for a game that you put days into is a shitty thing to do.

     

    Its not like the game is Vanguard.  It has an above average amount of bugs but bugs are EXPECTED in a newly released MMORPG.  if you dont expect them you are an unreasonable person, doubly so if they are endgame bugs and you rush to the endgame.

     

    Next time just wait two months after launch.

    So, if my TV stops working after using it..I should wait a few months and hope it fixes itself?

    Uhhh... in this case, he can still use his computer, and he apparently could get around any issues if he actually wanted to, and he could always have PvP'd and stuff for now until some stuff got fixed, or crafted, or whatever else to continue upgrading the character until things fixed up a bit.

    Not like there's much of a point in rushing beyond PvP at the moment anyway.

     

    He didn't pay $90 for a computer..he paid $90 for a functioning game to play and can no longer play it the way he was playing. That is more than enough reason to get a refund with any other product on the market.

    You focused on the wrong part. I said the computer because he could at least use the computer in this case, whereas a broken TV means he'd be left with no entertainment period from that entertainment venue.

    As for the product at hand: In this case, the game is playable; he had other routes for character progression that he refused to use in the mean-time, as the game is being PATCHED FREQUENTLY and the first major update is on its way. The problems will be fixed with patience. Unlike a TV.

    You're not following a logical pattern here..I wasn't saying the power in my house wasn't working..I was saying the TV wasn't working..which is where the game would be in this analogy. The computer would be the power that runs the game. So, the computer still working doesn't make any sense..since he is not trying to get a refund on the computer.

    Here in the US products are required to have an implied warranty. This means the product is guaranteed to "do what it is supposed to do". Software is obviously exempt from this..because of sketchy terms and usage practices that have not been challenged in court as of yet. The length of implied warranties vary by state and can be as long as four years.

    As for the problems being fixed with patience, that's only an excuse that's acceptable in software..you pay upfront for something that MIGHT work later on. There's no real sense to that at all. If it doesn't work the way it's supposed to at purchase and you're not happy with that, then there's no reason not to get a refund. Except that the law pounds consumers in the ass when it comes to software.

     

    You have to start with a logical pattern for it to be followed. You're comparing a video game that is playable, being patched constantly,  to a TV that doesn't work at all and won't be fixed months down the road. The PC doesn't matter, stop focusing on that. I should have left that out so my post would be less confusing.

    Apples and oranges. They're too different. This analogy isn't working, let's just move on to something else.

     

  • RaquisRaquis Member RarePosts: 1,029
    Originally posted by Ikeda

    Next comes the fans who say "Bugs?  What bugs?"

    Sorry Mtibbs.. I didn't even make it that far.  I hit major storyline bugs in the second or third zones.  I relogged about 30 times without result.  Switched to a different faction.  Except right around the same point in the factions questline I was bugged.  So I switched to the third faction.  I saw one of the quest bugs was resolved but we'll see.

     

    And I always preferred:  

    I am a fan not a fanboy a fanboy will play a game even if its crap cause they like the game.

    the game is good but I have never seen a game with sooooooo many bugs and dawn time for maintenance.

    I just will play till its not fun anymore and I don't care about vr ranks if its fun ill play.

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,407

    I am curious about something what is the law on software that does not work as advertised in the US. What is your remedy if any ? 

     

    The reason I ask is by asking people to preorder a game and give them money Zenimax 'held out' legal principal that they have a working software one that will allow you to advance to end game. However the OP is unable to do that. I am saying he is entitled to a refund .Whether he should ask for it is a separate question.

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  • BMBenderBMBender Member UncommonPosts: 827

    Originally posted by cheyane
    I am curious about something what is the law on software that does not work as advertised in the US. What is your remedy if any ? 
    In the US? very little. However, many nations in the EU in recent years have begun becoming MUCH more aggressive regarding digital goods/consumer rights. Eventually (assuming the trend continues) I expect some of that to percolate over the pond unless game companies either write off the EU, forced to make one product for the US and another for the EU, or just make a product that meets the most stringent standards.

    image
  • chronoss2015chronoss2015 Member UncommonPosts: 217

    cant play after the latest patch....not only lag but game is freezign up badly

     

    NOT going to resub ....its been 2 hrs since the update has been done and i cant deal with dying and having to repair this much....

     

     

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    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,407
    You guys are mixing up two salient issues. One is whether he is entitled legally to a refund and whether he should ethically ask for one. You are allowing the second to cloud the first.
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  • syriinxsyriinx Member UncommonPosts: 1,383
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by cheyane

    I am curious about something what is the law on software that does not work as advertised in the US. What is your remedy if any ? 

     

    The reason I ask is by asking people to preorder a game and give them money Zenimax 'held out' legal principal that they have a working software one that will allow you to advance to end game. However the OP is unable to do that. I am saying he is entitled to a refund .Whether he should ask for it is a separate question.

    That's one of the reasons why these contracts and agreements don't hold up in court. They're liable for selling a faulty product.

    again every single MMORPG in existence is a fualty product.  there is no exception and never will be.

     

    You just cant compare it to something like a TV.  Trying to make laws about other goods apply to software, and especially MMORPG is like trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

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    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,407

    Does the fact that every MMORPG releases with bugs change the law on software. Can you in principle get your money back on faulty software ?

     

    I am asking this question can you if you go to court  argue every MMORPG releases buggy and that he is therefore not entitled to his refund  for buggy software.

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  • BMBenderBMBender Member UncommonPosts: 827

    Originally posted by cheyane
    Does the fact that every MMORPG releases with bugs change the law on software. Can you in principle get your money back on faulty software ?
    Currently it depends on where you live

    image
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967

    "Bugs what bugs? I haven't seen one single bug in my ENTIRE time boosting in delves for xp and gold" -Idiot McBlindeye

     

    "Maybe it's your PC or internet. Post your rig and dxdiag so we know you aren't a troll" -Terry Derpington

     

    "Stop whin(g)ing in a time long long ago when all computers were tan, games were way buggier" -Stoopit Mtroski

     

    "OMG it's not a big deal Zenimax is the best company I'm sure they'll fix it real soon." -Danny Fanner

     

    "Even though I haven't played it, this game is the worst game in the history of the entire everything" -Thomas Hateration

     

    "Despite the many bugs and flaws that ruin gameplay for people this game is a right step forward for the entire genre" -MM(  )RPG

    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,407
    Where you live you mean in the US state by state the law is different ?
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  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,407
    It is an interesting conundrum that normally as far as I know you are entitled to a refund if you get buggy software so I am interested in knowing if MMORPGs software are an exception to this rule. Not sure how it is in the States though which is why I asked.
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  • BMBenderBMBender Member UncommonPosts: 827

    Originally posted by cheyane
    Where you live you mean in the US state by state the law is different ?
    nah mainly national differences, If your talking purely US then no not really your stuck with what you get unless the company in question decides on it's own to refund/recompense or not. From a legal perspective don't expect that to change anytime soon. There will be a market adjustment long before there is a legal one for the US. The games industry is simply to small a % of GDP to raise any type of legislative interest in either direction. Even companies like EA aren't gonna be able to "contribute" in the amount's that would move them and not enough "constituents" that would make them bother.

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