Son, Ive been playing MMORPGs since UO and everything released or recent has been sold on hype and IP cash grabs. ESO included.
ESO is a single player, quest grinder with little to no deviation from quest, quest, quest and zerg PVP. Sorry I was expecting something a bit more than a single player storyline that leads you around by the nose and fights you every step of the way if you want to group- I am sorry ESO is EZ-mode and super casuall. I am sorry there is no endgame outside of quest grinding other factions storylines and being led around by the nose even more.
Wildstar is a themepark but compared to ESO it is fucking EVE online in its complexity. Wildstar has harder content (and grouping) right from the get go.
The problem with "todays MMO gamer" is two fold. Falling for hype (everytime) and then white knighting a product as they somehow confuse being critical of "their game" with someone insulting them personally.
I am hyped for neither game. I watched and waited and made an informed choice. The choice was easy. I eithe r play an on rail story mode caual-fest and easy as hell game (with an art style I like) or I play something with some variation from questing and at least the hope of difficult content.
They are both themparks. One only has two and half rides.
I support the SUB model the most here. I do not want to see both games flop. When ESO goes F2P (and it will) they will blame the sub model and not their shitty design choices. At least Wildstar has a chance and I can easily see is 100 times the game right now.
Not trying to make this about ESO/Wildstar either. I am stating my opinion. I was going to buy one of these games and was unsure which until I saw the disaster that was ESO. IF Wildstar ends up being a disaster as well- At least my money wasnt handed to a greedy ass company trying to take an IP I love and use it as the means of a cash grab.... Because thats what ESO is- A cash grab.
Had it been called "Generic fantasy game 1007 online: Gold edition" and never had the TES IP. It wouldnt have sold anything.
EDIT_ Also not, I am not talking about bugs. I am talking about things which cannot be fixed- Like the entire GAME of ESO. Bugs can be fixed.... Some of my most fond memories are in games which were buggy. Single player MMORPG quest grinder is unfixable.
Son? You're younger than I am rofl... not sure how that works. I don't care when you started playing MMO's that means absolutely nothing in this discussion.
As for the rest of this diatribe it means nothing to what I said... Hype has nothing to do with what I said. You know no more than anyone else what game has a chance. ANything can happen over the next year that was my point..
Btw... I said MMORPG.com gamer... Not MMO gamer.
Let me ask you this, did UO players expect tram at launch, and that they'd change the nature of the games PVP freedoms? Did DAOC players expect the change that made gear required to be competitive in PVP in it's first month?
DID SWG players expect the CU and NGE in it's first few months? No... Hence the surprise and outrage when it did happen.
DID people expect and know the second attempt at a FF MMO would be so bad, yet get completely rebuilt after the fact of said bad release? No.
DID people expect based on it's launch quality that EVE would be going so strong still in 2014? No
Anything can happen.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The fact that its even possible to hit max level in a day is funny to me. just another easymode themepark with a life span of about a year before free to play.
this is why non paid betas are bad you get the content shredders that do this crap..this is why they don't design mmos with interesting content anymore cause this is all most mmo players do now days a speed run to end game and this is exactly why this game will go f2p by the beginning of next year oh and the fact that the game is a mediocre wow clone with frankly very little interesting sci fi elements in it.
Originally posted by cylon8 this is why non paid betas are bad you get the content shredders that do this crap..this is why they don't design mmos with interesting content anymore cause this is all most mmo players do now days a speed run to end game and this is exactly why this game will go f2p by the beginning of next year oh and the fact that the game is a mediocre wow clone with frankly very little interesting sci fi elements in it.
I'm not sure NCsoft is really the type of company that's going to do that. They seem more inclined to shut a game down over redesigning it. I don't think that will happen though, it's filling a niche that some seem to want, that's all a game really needs. As I said before though anything can happen.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by cylon8 this is why non paid betas are bad you get the content shredders that do this crap..this is why they don't design mmos with interesting content anymore cause this is all most mmo players do now days a speed run to end game and this is exactly why this game will go f2p by the beginning of next year oh and the fact that the game is a mediocre wow clone with frankly very little interesting sci fi elements in it.
Its not the players fault that games are made like that. You act as if the fault lies with the players for a games design. There is really no reason to play around at low levels since for the most part the combat is trivial. If you are into MMO for raiding then why wouldn't you want to race through the junk? I have been saying for a long time MMO'S need to get rid of the leveling system. Just start people off at full power and design content around that. They was 100s or 1000s of hours building the low level zones for people to smash through. Why not redirect that to a new boss battle, or raid?
Originally posted by cylon8 this is why non paid betas are bad you get the content shredders that do this crap..this is why they don't design mmos with interesting content anymore cause this is all most mmo players do now days a speed run to end game and this is exactly why this game will go f2p by the beginning of next year oh and the fact that the game is a mediocre wow clone with frankly very little interesting sci fi elements in it.
Its not the players fault that games are made like that. You act as if the fault lies with the players for a games design. There is really no reason to play around at low levels since for the most part the combat is trivial. If you are into MMO for raiding then why wouldn't you want to race through the junk? I have been saying for a long time MMO'S need to get rid of the leveling system. Just start people off at full power and design content around that. They was 100s or 1000s of hours building the low level zones for people to smash through. Why not redirect that to a new boss battle, or raid?
Maybe those who feel this way should play games that don't require leveling and are all about instant action ? Leveling is character building, that's a staple of RPG's if you do not enjoy that, then RPG's aren't for you.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Its not the players fault that games are made like that. You act as if the fault lies with the players for a games design. There is really no reason to play around at low levels since for the most part the combat is trivial. If you are into MMO for raiding then why wouldn't you want to race through the junk? I have been saying for a long time MMO'S need to get rid of the leveling system. Just start people off at full power and design content around that. They was 100s or 1000s of hours building the low level zones for people to smash through. Why not redirect that to a new boss battle, or raid?
Why would you design the game for the small percentage of players who want to rush for a title or competitive raid scene?
There are plenty of other players in the game who aren't doing that, and even the ones who do rush the first time, do the leveling stuff on an alt. Really the only people making a crisis out of this are the forum whiners who aren't playing the game anyway, certainly the guys in the Op aren't crying on the forums about it.
Well I've played for 3 hours enjoying myself and I am only level 6. So I don't think the leveling is super fast (not saying it isn't on the easier side).
Originally posted by IMPYRE Now its time for them to level up alts to 50, but honestly folks, I am playing WS as well and enjoying the game, but has themepark mmo's become to simple. So long to the days of EQ and the hell levels. Maybe the next mmo will be like, here is your level X, now go grind them weapons and gear for your raid dungeons or your arena battles.
Screw this leveling ($*#, I just want to play endgame is the gamers mentality now and not the journey anymore.
next will b "pay us $60 and u can have a max lvl toon now". wait..........
Both wildstar and WoW start at max level. Getting there is not an achievement, its just absurdly boring.
First, the guy(s) ( as I see, there are 2? ) who manage to get to 50 , I am pretty sure that they knew how and where to level up based on their BETA play time. Also, I am also pretty sure that they received a lot of help from their guild.
You must keep in mind that for some, achieving max level in a MMO is something to be proud of , but the majority, 99% are going to level as it should be.
After 9 hours of play-time , I am around level 15 . Did I do something "wrong"? I don't care, because I am having fun playing the game and understating it.
PS: In before , why don't you play the game beside writing on forums. Well .. queues baby 12 mins to go ..
proud?
leveling at a normal speed you would be max level in 2 weeks. proud? i dont see a reason to be proud for that.
When u hit max level in a game where i takes an average person at leats 6 months. oh hey thats something to be proud of. All this achievement and epeen bullshit nowadays while they infact arnt achievments at all.
Originally posted by IMPYRE Now its time for them to level up alts to 50, but honestly folks, I am playing WS as well and enjoying the game, but has themepark mmo's become to simple. So long to the days of EQ and the hell levels. Maybe the next mmo will be like, here is your level X, now go grind them weapons and gear for your raid dungeons or your arena battles.
Screw this leveling ($*#, I just want to play endgame is the gamers mentality now and not the journey anymore.
next will b "pay us $60 and u can have a max lvl toon now". wait..........
Both wildstar and WoW start at max level. Getting there is not an achievement, its just absurdly boring.
wich is so so wrong.
why the fuck would someone include levels if endgame is where the "real" game starts? its not just boring but an idiotic thing to do.
leveling was the RPG origin in mmo's and also to give meaning to the game venturing on a epic journey. I hate the direction mmo's took.
Originally posted by IMPYRE Now its time for them to level up alts to 50, but honestly folks, I am playing WS as well and enjoying the game, but has themepark mmo's become to simple. So long to the days of EQ and the hell levels. Maybe the next mmo will be like, here is your level X, now go grind them weapons and gear for your raid dungeons or your arena battles.
Screw this leveling ($*#, I just want to play endgame is the gamers mentality now and not the journey anymore.
next will b "pay us $60 and u can have a max lvl toon now". wait..........
Both wildstar and WoW start at max level. Getting there is not an achievement, its just absurdly boring.
wich is so so wrong.
why the fuck would someone include levels if endgame is where the "real" game starts? its not just boring but an idiotic thing to do.
leveling was the RPG origin in mmo's and also to give meaning to the game venturing on a epic journey. I hate the direction mmo's took.
I know how you feel...kinda like asking people why a game should start being fun at a certain level (level 20 with this game) and getting harped on all because you feel that a game should be fun from the get go!
Originally posted by Azmodeus The content locusts are on a feeding frenzy. Just a matter of days before the cries of "Lack of content."
There is no such thing as "Content Locusts" It's not the player's who are at fault for this. It's the games and their developers. Anyone remember who Jona was? The self proclaimed Vanilla WoW "pro" power leveler? I don't care about his credentials as long as he was really counted among the top power levelers of that time.Because it took him approx. 125 hrs game time to do it. That time frame was stupidly unheard of back then. And that was after having done it a dzn times before to perfect it.
Originally posted by Azmodeus The content locusts are on a feeding frenzy. Just a matter of days before the cries of "Lack of content."
There is no such thing as "Content Locusts" It's not the player's who are at fault for this. It's the games and their developers. Anyone remember who Jona was? The self proclaimed Vanilla WoW "pro" power leveler? I don't care about his credentials as long as he was really counted among the top power levelers of that time.Because it took him approx. 125 hrs game time to do it. That time frame was stupidly unheard of back then. And that was after having done it a dzn times before to perfect it.
No, the games are different now.
You put all the blame on the devs? I will put some of the blame on the devs, but I am sure the devs are not spending all kind of time designing quests, voiceovers, dialogue etc to have someone get to max level in a few hours played. I put more blame on gamers. What would happen if everyone got to max level in a few hours? It would cause severe panic with Carbine.
Let's use ESO as an example. The devs really tried pushing questing as the way to level, in fact the Veteran Ranks were changed that way after people blew by them via dungeon grinding or other ways. Craglorn changed this however due to the vast ammount of complaining.
There are certainly content locusts and they are the reason many themeparks fail, they cannot keep people around long enough.
Content locusts are not actually locusts. Locusts eat all the crops but players that just want to get to max skip a lot of the content or don't pay attention to it because they don't need to. Nothing wrong with that. Another point: yea they got to max really fast but how many hours of planing and playing in the beta did they do to prepare for that? Probably just as many hours as it would take the average new player to get max. So really it's the same. Just enjoy the game how you like. No need to argue.
No matter how much content a developer says they have, they can't stop people from leveling really fast without alienating the rest of their players. In a game with a fixed amount of XP required to gain a level, people will inherently level quickly. The only way to stop this would to have daily restrictions on XP; which doesn't fly. No developer in their right mind would do that.
I've never understood why people scream "OMG, someone hit max level already". Who freaking cares? Let the people that think getting max level is the most important thing, do just that. Some people enjoy that, others enjoy the quest spam text, and others just want to play. Yes, it took a week for people to get max level back in the days of EQ, EQ2, and WOW. Those days are gone (sadly). Now games are about the "end game" instead of the journey.
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
Originally posted by Azmodeus The content locusts are on a feeding frenzy. Just a matter of days before the cries of "Lack of content."
There is no such thing as "Content Locusts" It's not the player's who are at fault for this. It's the games and their developers. Anyone remember who Jona was? The self proclaimed Vanilla WoW "pro" power leveler? I don't care about his credentials as long as he was really counted among the top power levelers of that time.Because it took him approx. 125 hrs game time to do it. That time frame was stupidly unheard of back then. And that was after having done it a dzn times before to perfect it.
No, the games are different now.
You put all the blame on the devs? I will put some of the blame on the devs, but I am sure the devs are not spending all kind of time designing quests, voiceovers, dialogue etc to have someone get to max level in a few hours played. I put more blame on gamers. What would happen if everyone got to max level in a few hours? It would cause severe panic with Carbine.
Let's use ESO as an example. The devs really tried pushing questing as the way to level, in fact the Veteran Ranks were changed that way after people blew by them via dungeon grinding or other ways. Craglorn changed this however due to the vast ammount of complaining.
There are certainly content locusts and they are the reason many themeparks fail, they cannot keep people around long enough.
The devs are the ones that can artificially control how quickly players gain levels. How can anyone blame the players for doing something efficiently?
No, the problem lies with the fact that the longer it takes to level, the more content and quests need to be created. That wasn't an issue a decade ago when all we had were mob respawns to deal with.
I think it's a joke that max level can be reached in an MMO in under a week, but it is what it is. No point in getting angry at the player for playing the way they want and within the rules.
Comments
Son? You're younger than I am rofl... not sure how that works. I don't care when you started playing MMO's that means absolutely nothing in this discussion.
As for the rest of this diatribe it means nothing to what I said... Hype has nothing to do with what I said. You know no more than anyone else what game has a chance. ANything can happen over the next year that was my point..
Btw... I said MMORPG.com gamer... Not MMO gamer.
Let me ask you this, did UO players expect tram at launch, and that they'd change the nature of the games PVP freedoms? Did DAOC players expect the change that made gear required to be competitive in PVP in it's first month?
DID SWG players expect the CU and NGE in it's first few months? No... Hence the surprise and outrage when it did happen.
DID people expect and know the second attempt at a FF MMO would be so bad, yet get completely rebuilt after the fact of said bad release? No.
DID people expect based on it's launch quality that EVE would be going so strong still in 2014? No
Anything can happen.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The fact that its even possible to hit max level in a day is funny to me. just another easymode themepark with a life span of about a year before free to play.
with most players probably lasting a month 2 max.
how did you know?? I just shelved my WS lvl50 and went back to CoD!
(just kidding, shelved at lvl49)
hahahahahahahah-
THAT was pretty funny.
so say we all
I'm not sure NCsoft is really the type of company that's going to do that. They seem more inclined to shut a game down over redesigning it. I don't think that will happen though, it's filling a niche that some seem to want, that's all a game really needs. As I said before though anything can happen.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Its not the players fault that games are made like that. You act as if the fault lies with the players for a games design. There is really no reason to play around at low levels since for the most part the combat is trivial. If you are into MMO for raiding then why wouldn't you want to race through the junk? I have been saying for a long time MMO'S need to get rid of the leveling system. Just start people off at full power and design content around that. They was 100s or 1000s of hours building the low level zones for people to smash through. Why not redirect that to a new boss battle, or raid?
Maybe those who feel this way should play games that don't require leveling and are all about instant action ? Leveling is character building, that's a staple of RPG's if you do not enjoy that, then RPG's aren't for you.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I agree with you. Vanilla WoW for example started getting good at level 60.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Why would you design the game for the small percentage of players who want to rush for a title or competitive raid scene?
There are plenty of other players in the game who aren't doing that, and even the ones who do rush the first time, do the leveling stuff on an alt. Really the only people making a crisis out of this are the forum whiners who aren't playing the game anyway, certainly the guys in the Op aren't crying on the forums about it.
^ This...
Both wildstar and WoW start at max level. Getting there is not an achievement, its just absurdly boring.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
proud?
leveling at a normal speed you would be max level in 2 weeks. proud? i dont see a reason to be proud for that.
When u hit max level in a game where i takes an average person at leats 6 months. oh hey thats something to be proud of. All this achievement and epeen bullshit nowadays while they infact arnt achievments at all.
wich is so so wrong.
why the fuck would someone include levels if endgame is where the "real" game starts? its not just boring but an idiotic thing to do.
leveling was the RPG origin in mmo's and also to give meaning to the game venturing on a epic journey. I hate the direction mmo's took.
I know how you feel...kinda like asking people why a game should start being fun at a certain level (level 20 with this game) and getting harped on all because you feel that a game should be fun from the get go!
There is no such thing as "Content Locusts" It's not the player's who are at fault for this. It's the games and their developers. Anyone remember who Jona was? The self proclaimed Vanilla WoW "pro" power leveler? I don't care about his credentials as long as he was really counted among the top power levelers of that time.Because it took him approx. 125 hrs game time to do it. That time frame was stupidly unheard of back then. And that was after having done it a dzn times before to perfect it.
No, the games are different now.
You put all the blame on the devs? I will put some of the blame on the devs, but I am sure the devs are not spending all kind of time designing quests, voiceovers, dialogue etc to have someone get to max level in a few hours played. I put more blame on gamers. What would happen if everyone got to max level in a few hours? It would cause severe panic with Carbine.
Let's use ESO as an example. The devs really tried pushing questing as the way to level, in fact the Veteran Ranks were changed that way after people blew by them via dungeon grinding or other ways. Craglorn changed this however due to the vast ammount of complaining.
There are certainly content locusts and they are the reason many themeparks fail, they cannot keep people around long enough.
No matter how much content a developer says they have, they can't stop people from leveling really fast without alienating the rest of their players. In a game with a fixed amount of XP required to gain a level, people will inherently level quickly. The only way to stop this would to have daily restrictions on XP; which doesn't fly. No developer in their right mind would do that.
I've never understood why people scream "OMG, someone hit max level already". Who freaking cares? Let the people that think getting max level is the most important thing, do just that. Some people enjoy that, others enjoy the quest spam text, and others just want to play. Yes, it took a week for people to get max level back in the days of EQ, EQ2, and WOW. Those days are gone (sadly). Now games are about the "end game" instead of the journey.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
The devs are the ones that can artificially control how quickly players gain levels. How can anyone blame the players for doing something efficiently?
No, the problem lies with the fact that the longer it takes to level, the more content and quests need to be created. That wasn't an issue a decade ago when all we had were mob respawns to deal with.
I think it's a joke that max level can be reached in an MMO in under a week, but it is what it is. No point in getting angry at the player for playing the way they want and within the rules.