It takes some players longer to come to the same point - the game is decent from 1-50, and then the fun nosedives once you hit VR.
Its still the same game, only rewards come less frequent...
And actually the guild quests and the main story where the worst part of 1 to 50... and the game got rid of that.... not that they where badly done, but they where done in such a way, that they distracted from the flow of the game..
That's what confuses me. Other than "rewards" or xp being slower what is the difference? If 1-50 is fun then the content after that will be equally fun as they are more of the same style of quests.
From my understanding (through the forums whines) you don't get epic loot. That's why people are angry. Taking 50+ levels to realize gear isn't as important in TES and that there is no treadmill....
Also, a lot of people got to 50 playing crappily and now that they face REAL difficulty, they cry
It was my understanding that the best loot was going to be from players. They should know that. It's been said a bazillion times.
Yes like a lot of other things but you still get posts every month asking for arena, AH and how do we add more hotbars? Thank god WS launched so the kids move away....
It takes some players longer to come to the same point - the game is decent from 1-50, and then the fun nosedives once you hit VR.
Its still the same game, only rewards come less frequent...
And actually the guild quests and the main story where the worst part of 1 to 50... and the game got rid of that.... not that they where badly done, but they where done in such a way, that they distracted from the flow of the game..
That's what confuses me. Other than "rewards" or xp being slower what is the difference? If 1-50 is fun then the content after that will be equally fun as they are more of the same style of quests.
Look at GW2. 1-cap in GW2 was fun as shit. Past that was just meaningless grind. People trying to do speed runs of dungeons as "content" cause thats all they had to do, aside from pvp.
I recently went back to FF14 to see how its developed since January. I took a break because it was heading towards a raid/gear grind treadmill.
FF14 is full of polish, even at launch, despite the initial login issues was very polished. While I have encountered numerous bugs large and small in ESO, my experience with FF14 has essentially been bug free.
But that is where the pleasantries end. ESO has a far superior, fairly open questing experience. Yes, the zone progression is linear but it is less hub based and more along the lines of TSW where quests are simply just there and it is up to you to find your own way.
ESO features fully voiced quests with decent writing and acting. FF14 cutscenes are SOMETIMES voice acted, poorly written and poorly voice acted (if there is voice acted). I still don't understand why Square Enix was never called out for it's inconsistent presentation. Side quests in ESO are fairly meaty on story whereas FF14 sidequests are complete filler trash
As an example, FF14 has hit a positive note with critics and players but the only thing it has on ESO is polish. It too is plagued with botters, even today. While I think both games are great, it does bother me ESO gets the short stick simply because.
I recently went back to FF14 to see how its developed since January. I took a break because it was heading towards a raid/gear grind treadmill.
FF14 is full of polish, even at launch, despite the initial login issues was very polished. While I have encountered numerous bugs large and small in ESO, my experience with FF14 has essentially been bug free.
But that is where the pleasantries end. ESO has a far superior, fairly open questing experience. Yes, the zone progression is linear but it is less hub based and more along the lines of TSW where quests are simply just there and it is up to you to find your own way.
ESO features fully voiced quests with decent writing and acting. FF14 cutscenes are SOMETIMES voice acted, poorly written and poorly voice acted (if there is voice acted). I still don't understand why Square Enix was never called out for it's inconsistent presentation. Side quests in ESO are fairly meaty on story whereas FF14 sidequests are complete filler trash
As an example, FF14 has hit a positive note with critics and players but the only thing it has on ESO is polish. It too is plagued with botters, even today. While I think both games are great, it does bother me ESO gets the short stick simply because.
ESO gets the short stick becuase it's just not a great game, it's just an OK game with all kinds of problems. There's the short stick IMHO.
Judging from the players that are usually online in the 4 guilds that i belong i can say that the game lost a 25% right after the end of the 1st month. From those that renew (like me) their subscription for the 2nd month not even the 50% is online the past 2 weeks. This is the biggest decrease i have seen in an mmo. If not for the future release in consoles, i could easily say that the game is going for f2p in the next 2 months. But maybe the console release will hold back this concept for now. Don't get me wrong, i really like many things in ESO, for example the leveling experience ( the best i had in a mmo), crafting etc and i also didn't have/encounter serious problems with bugs. From the other hand there are many things that are frustrating about this game. Leveling in veteran ranks is very very slow and you also have to do the quests that you would if you were in another faction (this spoils the fun for me). PvP which supposed to be the highlight of this game, miss it's target cause of the unbelievable high lag ( at least for the EU players ). Frankly, we, pc users and also ESO players payed for a game that's still (2+ months after it's official release) under Beta mode.
A lot of good points above, some I agree with, others seem more like they got their feelings hurt by another's post. To me, ESO boils down to this - (I'm a VR8 Nighblade btw)
Pros: Graphics, Most Quests are interesting story driven, RvR, Massive world with lots to experience - TONS OF UPSIDE!!!
Cons: Too much questing (or not enough experience) and extremely low population once you hit VR5+ zones - sometimes you don't even see a zone chat message flash across your screen for an hour. Most people don't mind grinds, but the end game grinds should be about obtaining end game gear, not a continuation of random questing with random blue/green gear drops.
Even a bigger Con is (for those of us that enjoy PVP) is no alternate PVP in the game. RVR is cool, but lets face it, it gets laggy and for some of us, 30+ on 30+ takes some of the personal skill out of game -- it's just a steam roll of people and when you get killed, it's usually by 5 or 10 people at once. I think if they offered some arenas, maybe domination or capture the flag at a 3x3, 5x5 or 6x6 type of stuff, it would keep a big part of the population that is currently leaving. Some people just need a quick fix (Get in and out) PVP which in turn makes the VR5+ questing tolerable.
The last big Con is - DK/VAMP -- when one class (especially the Vampire) becomes so overwhelmingly played by 80% of the PVP population, you completely undermine the selling points of the customization ability of the game. Nightblades, Templars - they got nothing to offer that a DK can't do better - Sorcs have a few cool things (especially the teleport) but having played one.. .I've got nothing good or bad to say. And before you say -- "you should try a Nightblade with a Destro staff and a restoration staff --- they are pretty legit." - Come on.. its a nightblade, I like the option, but that's not what nightblades nor what most people want to do that roll one.
Overall -- ESO isn't dead, I'm not quitting "yet", and I love so many other facets of the game -- but the Cons mentioned above will lead to F2P or worse if not addressed immediately. People are quitting right and left (most all of my guild is gone) and most don't go back 6 months later and give a game another look. Time is of the essence and if you want a model that holds true with a subscription based MMO, then BIG changes need to happen in the next 30 days or it will be too late.
Well the game is still keeping me interested after a few months, so I got my moneys worth. I am what you call a casual mmo gamer now, because I still find time in other games to try out, including WS.
ESO to me feels like I can take my time and I am not missing out on anything of importance. To be in a world that doesn't feel too restrictive is fine by me, it's games like Warhammer, AoC and SWTOR which were total upsets for me since those 3 games feel like I was totally boxed in and felt very much linear than most themepark mmo's we have now.
I am going to stick it out with ESO and play it out and see where it takes me. WS is my guilty pleasure and thank god both games to me feel entirely different.
For a game using a "single server" style it sure seems empty to me. When I run around VR zones I see maybe 3-5 people over a 2 hour span.
They seriously need to work on their virtualization. I want to see people while I play, not feel like it's a solo game.
Could in fact make you understand most play ESO like a ES game and take their time.
I am no where near VR levels, actually got 3 characters level 17 and my Templar at 18.
Playing since 3day headstart. Due to experiance in this genre I will not set myself up to go to cap lvl this quick besides it's a ES game.
I keep seeing people while I play, some I help, sometimes they help, been in a few PUGs had fun but they always end up with being the none-speaking pugs which I don't mind with a game this young after release. Community's mature often the 3 to 6 months mark.
Havn't experiance much of the bugs thought the occasional bot pops up, but far less then it use to be.
The problem with MMORPG's today has more to do with people not understanding/knowing the difference between how a singleplayer game works, are developed compared to how complex a MMORPG is to develop atleast based on the way some people complain.
MMO players now days dont play mmos for their full potential anymore they play it just for god who knows because most of them hate the questing or they hates the hunting of mobs(grinding) they refuse to immerse themselve in the lore and gameworld for which the mmo genre is fully meant to be played for.Most players need to gtho out of the genre and go back to sp games.
You don't spend 200million + making a "niche" game. The game flopped, big time. The development team apparently failed to listen to their customer base, or to even consider what customers really wanted. They built the game they wanted, and it hasn't resonated with the MMORPG audience, or with the Skyrim/Elderscrolls audience.
Back in beta I noted it reminded me very much of SWTOR. Old, dated, and belonging to a time when World of Warcraft featured the most advanced MMORPG mechanics of the time.
Fan boys and elitists will argue about everyone wanting easy, no one wanting to "work" for it...and that right there is the niche market. Because the elitists are totally correct. No one wants to "work" when playing anymore, the market has rejected that thought process. They want the UI to help them have fun, whatever they choose that to be. They want the game systems to assist them, they want grouping and finding content to be easy and quick. In short, they no longer want Everquest or WoW style game mechanics and time sinks.
Guild Wars 2, Wildstar, Rift...those are the types of mechanics that the modern MMO player is looking for. Take a look at Destiny's featureset, and recognise also that Blizzard did a total reversal on their MMO development for the same reason : no one wants the outdated mechanics anymore.
Zenimax created a (rumoured) 200 million dollar niche game. Just like SWTOR. And it's going to go the same way as SWTOR.
Bethesda was better off creating a Co-Op Elder Scrolls game with better world creation and modding tools, something the community actually wanted and something they were very good at.
Originally posted by inoxcopia Frankly, we, pc users and also ESO players payed for a game that's still (2+ months after it's official release) under Beta mode.
Pretty much...
The founders beta is already half price @ Amazon - I'm hoping this launches B2P or F2P before 6.0 so I have something semi-exciting to play around with this summer/fall...
Originally posted by bcbully Weird, I have more friends and guild mates than one month ago.
what about the pvp populations bcbully ? there is a decrease for sure.
If I had to guess it seems to be less than the first 2 weeks (pre-batswarm issue..), but more since patch 1.2. Battles are as huge and epic as ever and population is stable, if not growing again.
A lot of good points above, some I agree with, others seem more like they got their feelings hurt by another's post. To me, ESO boils down to this - (I'm a VR8 Nighblade btw)
Pros: Graphics are good, Most Quests are interesting and story driven, RvR is cool and impressive, massive world with lots to experience - TONS OF UPSIDE!!!
Cons: Too much questing (or not enough experience) and extremely low population once you hit VR5+ zones - sometimes you don't even see a zone chat message flash across your screen for an hour. Most people don't mind grinds, but the end game grinds should be about obtaining end game gear, not a continuation of random questing with random blue/green gear drops.
Even a bigger Con is (for those of us that enjoy PVP) is no alternate PVP in the game. RVR is cool, but lets face it, it gets laggy and for some of us, 30+ on 30+ takes some of the personal skill out of game -- it's just a mass load of people (yes I get the strategy) and when you get killed, it's usually by 5 or 10 people at once - takes the personal 1x1 skill completely out of it. I know if they offered some arenas, maybe domination or capture the flag with a 3x3, 5x5 or 6x6 type of format, it would keep a big part of the population that is currently leaving. Some people just need a quick fix (Get in and out) PVP which in turn makes the VR5+ questing tolerable as you are limited to just RVR or the Grind.
The last big Con is - class balance. I get this is argued in every mmo but .. when one class (mainly talking about the Vampire) becomes so overwhelmingly played by 80% of the PVP population, you completely undermine the selling points of the customization ability of the game for PVPers. I'm a Nightblade, not a vampire (although I tried it), so I can't really speak for other classes, but I know and talk to Templars (say they are gimped), DK's (agree they are OP'd), and Sorcs (who really don't complain much) but I've heard-- "you should try a Nightblade with a Destro staff and a restoration staff --- they are pretty legit." - Come on.. its a nightblade, I like the option, but that's not what people or roll stealthy classes want to do. I don't want to be forced to a specific class and into RVR if I want to PVP with success. I also don't want to feel like I'm playing an MMO called Twilight.
Overall -- ESO isn't dead, I'm not quitting "yet", and I love so many other facets of the game -- but the Cons mentioned above will lead to F2P or worse if not addressed immediately. People are quitting right and left (most all of my guild is gone) and most don't go back 6 months later and give a game another look. Time is of the essence and if you want a model that holds true with a subscription based MMO, then BIG changes need to happen in the next 30 days or it will be too late.
There is nothing wrong with the game, it is just linear and failed to provide a lot of the (mildly) sandboxy and exploration features I would expect in a game that shares an IP with Skyrim.
My problem was the bugs and the bots; each new patch seemed to bring as many new bugs as those it fixed. I left the game anticipating I would return when it was in a better state, but then I simply felt no desire to go back. I would imagine I am not the only person in this position.
Trials, Delves, Group dungeons, Grind ghosts, PVE in cyrodil, PVP in cyrodil, Craft, Caldwells journal, etc, etc....
Plenty to do, as much if not more then other mmos ( not sure what you people consider the gold standard when every older mmo out there is a giant hunk of dated shit, with equal or less content and they have had years to do so..... why so much ESO hate when the game is less then a few months old
I got to VR1 and felt like it was slow....for about 2 minutes and then I realized how much there is to do in order to level.
Its a sad day when you realize the majority of the players who post here are really impatient or never played an mmo that involved any form of work for you reward.
If you don't like the game that's one thing, but all the arguments I see for disliking come down to lack of motivation to get into it, and clearly that only shows that its either not your style of mmo or you didn't even give it enough o fa chance.
I personally don't grind the alliance maps all the time but I do enjoy them so much more then the first time around since it's actually challenging now and I have valuable skills that are morphed, and other that I re-morphed and get to work on again. If this makes you butt-hurt go play WoW and level to 90 in 5 minutes, enjoy that while it lasts.
There is nothing wrong with the game, it is just linear and failed to provide a lot of the (mildly) sandboxy and exploration features I would expect in a game that shares an IP with Skyrim.
My problem was the bugs and the bots; each new patch seemed to bring as many new bugs as those it fixed. I left the game anticipating I would return when it was in a better state, but then I simply felt no desire to go back. I would imagine I am not the only person in this position.
The progression path might be somewhat linear, but mainly because it's a ES game I still can explore well beyond my level if I choose. And like any ES player I could care less about the XP gain aslong it's fun and challenging which ESO provides, even in the area's I am not supose to be in give me some challenge even when dying allot when fighting 5 to 9+ levels above me. In fact it gives me pleasure to know I got something to look forward to and meanwhile develop better skills/ability's.
I love being able to explore allot again ESO provides this. It's even meaningfull to explore, you never know what type of resource, node, chest, quest, or what ever you might run into.
"The problem with MMORPG's today has more to do with people not understanding/knowing the difference between how a singleplayer game works, are developed compared to how complex a MMORPG is to develop atleast based on the way some people complain."- Reklaw
RAMUR65 ... THANK YOU
"MMO players now days dont play mmos for their full potential anymore they play it just for god who knows because most of them hate the questing or they hates the hunting of mobs(grinding) they refuse to immerse themselve in the lore and gameworld for which the mmo genre is fully meant to be played for.Most players need to gtho out of the genre and go back to sp games."
Damn I really wish I would have thought to word it like this . :P
Good on you gentlemen.
I would love to see someone logically disagree w/ this.... not possible
Bought it today, installing now. Looking forward to play
Playing: TESO (great!) ************** Most looking forward for: Everquest Next ************** Have Played: World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XI, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Vanguard, Everquest Online Adventures, Everquest 1, EverQuest 2, Dungeons & Dragons Online, The Chronical of Spellborn, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Aion, CoH, Loong, Dragon nest, LoL, Alods, Diablo 3, NWN, Tera, Poe, Guild Wars 2, Rift Most favorite; Everquest online Adventures (EQOA, 2003, PS2)
There is nothing wrong with the game, it is just linear and failed to provide a lot of the (mildly) sandboxy and exploration features I would expect in a game that shares an IP with Skyrim.
My problem was the bugs and the bots; each new patch seemed to bring as many new bugs as those it fixed. I left the game anticipating I would return when it was in a better state, but then I simply felt no desire to go back. I would imagine I am not the only person in this position.
The progression path might be somewhat linear, but mainly because it's a ES game I still can explore well beyond my level if I choose. And like any ES player I could care less about the XP gain aslong it's fun and challenging which ESO provides, even in the area's I am not supose to be in give me some challenge even when dying allot when fighting 5 to 9+ levels above me. In fact it gives me pleasure to know I got something to look forward to and meanwhile develop better skills/ability's.
I love being able to explore allot again ESO provides this. It's even meaningfull to explore, you never know what type of resource, node, chest, quest, or what ever you might run into.
Glad you feel this way; I didn't hence not being fussed about returning.
Its a sad day when you realize the majority of the players who post here are really impatient or never played an mmo that involved any form of work for you reward.
I would agree -- but if you don't see a worthy "Reward" at the end, then you've got nothing. I don't know about you, but I'll work had, grind, stay up late, go to work tired, but if there is not "worthy reward" then I'm out- and right now, I'm not seeing the reward. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder and what your after on a personal level - but either listen to your paying customers (many of who are spot on above) and you keep a large population and stay Pay to Play and keep developing "Top Level type of Content" or your fall to your niche game and go F2P and then deal with changing dynamics of how to fund additional content and how epic that will even be-- and then usually turns into pay to win. This isn't Pay to Play worthy as it stands now, they have to broaden/correct and make changes (and fix some stuff). Even if it's going to take some time (like you said, game only 2 months old) -they need to acknowledge the masses in their own forums and let us know what they are doing about it. MMO's are about doing what you enjoy doing best (we are all different, I get that)-- RP, Crafting, Questing, getting that cool armor look, achievements, grouping, socialization, PVP, farming a rare mount, etc. This games has some of that, some of it need improvement, some of it doesn't, etc - but for those whose endgame is PVP - we want Open World, RVR, Arenas, Ranking Ladders, 2x2, 3x3, 5x5, Capture the Flag, Domination, straight up death match, dueling - and for those whose are in it for something else - maybe being Emperor in a lag ridden world of Vampires-- this is the right game for them. Bottom line - it's headed down the path of SWTOR - and maybe that's ok- maybe this is a niche game. Mark my words though, coming soon to a computer near you - server consolidation, F2P, P2W - been there, seen it, wrote posts like this before it happened. I'll keep waiting, watching, wishing for the best and hoping I'm wrong until then.
I'm still plugging along and enjoying the game. My highest is only 37? I think and I play an alts when spouse isn't around. The key to keeping the game fresh for me is playing it in spurts. Not sure if it is MMO burnout overall but keeping my play session in manageable chunks is my preferred style of play these days.
I also find that concentrating on a single quest at a time versus sucking them all up ala Hoover Vacuum cleaner keeps the lore sorted out for me nicely. I'm certainly enjoying the slower pace of the game and probably won't hit the higher levels any time soon.
It takes some players longer to come to the same point - the game is decent from 1-50, and then the fun nosedives once you hit VR.
Its still the same game, only rewards come less frequent...
And actually the guild quests and the main story where the worst part of 1 to 50... and the game got rid of that.... not that they where badly done, but they where done in such a way, that they distracted from the flow of the game..
That's what confuses me. Other than "rewards" or xp being slower what is the difference? If 1-50 is fun then the content after that will be equally fun as they are more of the same style of quests.
Does the progression from 1 - 50 feel more satisfying than 50 onwards? I don't know because I don't play the game, but that's the message I'm hearing as an outsider. The progression from 1 - 50 felt good. The adventuring, exploration, and loot felt rewarding. From 50 onwards it is described as sluggish, overly familiar, repetitive, with loot rewards feeling anemic. Maybe that's true, or maybe not, but it's the perception and feeling that matters. Maybe the fun stuff focuses on different play styles and systems than what people had done while leveling. Just something to consider.
Then once again, the issue is just "loot and xp".
Basically people wanting to level to the ultimate cap as quickly as possible, putting up with quests but in reality probably just wanting an end game "game".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Kill Boss "A", then move to Boss "B", then on to Boss "C"
wait...
wait...
ok go back to Boss "A"
then there's this "LFG trials" then 20 minutes later, not enough contestant, so, lets join the boss grind train..
oh damn, this is getting boring, im going back to the VR Alliance zone.
oh shit, where the hell is everyone?
this sums up the VR zone as of right now
Cheers
oh, as to answer this thread, i pretty much unsubbed when i reach VR12 and i had no idea what to do in the game anymore, Cyrodil is getting bland and pretty much that's it
You don't spend 200million + making a "niche" game. The game flopped, big time. The development team apparently failed to listen to their customer base, or to even consider what customers really wanted. They built the game they wanted, and it hasn't resonated with the MMORPG audience, or with the Skyrim/Elderscrolls audience.
Back in beta I noted it reminded me very much of SWTOR. Old, dated, and belonging to a time when World of Warcraft featured the most advanced MMORPG mechanics of the time.
Fan boys and elitists will argue about everyone wanting easy, no one wanting to "work" for it...and that right there is the niche market. Because the elitists are totally correct. No one wants to "work" when playing anymore, the market has rejected that thought process. They want the UI to help them have fun, whatever they choose that to be. They want the game systems to assist them, they want grouping and finding content to be easy and quick. In short, they no longer want Everquest or WoW style game mechanics and time sinks.
Guild Wars 2, Wildstar, Rift...those are the types of mechanics that the modern MMO player is looking for. Take a look at Destiny's featureset, and recognise also that Blizzard did a total reversal on their MMO development for the same reason : no one wants the outdated mechanics anymore.
Zenimax created a (rumoured) 200 million dollar niche game. Just like SWTOR. And it's going to go the same way as SWTOR.
Bethesda was better off creating a Co-Op Elder Scrolls game with better world creation and modding tools, something the community actually wanted and something they were very good at.
And this is a clear example of a TESO 'hater': FUD, lies and exaggeration (starting with the 200 mil budget, any fonts for that btw? lol)
Comments
Yes like a lot of other things but you still get posts every month asking for arena, AH and how do we add more hotbars? Thank god WS launched so the kids move away....
Look at GW2. 1-cap in GW2 was fun as shit. Past that was just meaningless grind. People trying to do speed runs of dungeons as "content" cause thats all they had to do, aside from pvp.
I recently went back to FF14 to see how its developed since January. I took a break because it was heading towards a raid/gear grind treadmill.
FF14 is full of polish, even at launch, despite the initial login issues was very polished. While I have encountered numerous bugs large and small in ESO, my experience with FF14 has essentially been bug free.
But that is where the pleasantries end. ESO has a far superior, fairly open questing experience. Yes, the zone progression is linear but it is less hub based and more along the lines of TSW where quests are simply just there and it is up to you to find your own way.
ESO features fully voiced quests with decent writing and acting. FF14 cutscenes are SOMETIMES voice acted, poorly written and poorly voice acted (if there is voice acted). I still don't understand why Square Enix was never called out for it's inconsistent presentation. Side quests in ESO are fairly meaty on story whereas FF14 sidequests are complete filler trash
As an example, FF14 has hit a positive note with critics and players but the only thing it has on ESO is polish. It too is plagued with botters, even today. While I think both games are great, it does bother me ESO gets the short stick simply because.
what about the pvp populations bcbully ? there is a decrease for sure.
ESO gets the short stick becuase it's just not a great game, it's just an OK game with all kinds of problems. There's the short stick IMHO.
A lot of good points above, some I agree with, others seem more like they got their feelings hurt by another's post. To me, ESO boils down to this - (I'm a VR8 Nighblade btw)
Pros: Graphics, Most Quests are interesting story driven, RvR, Massive world with lots to experience - TONS OF UPSIDE!!!
Cons: Too much questing (or not enough experience) and extremely low population once you hit VR5+ zones - sometimes you don't even see a zone chat message flash across your screen for an hour. Most people don't mind grinds, but the end game grinds should be about obtaining end game gear, not a continuation of random questing with random blue/green gear drops.
Even a bigger Con is (for those of us that enjoy PVP) is no alternate PVP in the game. RVR is cool, but lets face it, it gets laggy and for some of us, 30+ on 30+ takes some of the personal skill out of game -- it's just a steam roll of people and when you get killed, it's usually by 5 or 10 people at once. I think if they offered some arenas, maybe domination or capture the flag at a 3x3, 5x5 or 6x6 type of stuff, it would keep a big part of the population that is currently leaving. Some people just need a quick fix (Get in and out) PVP which in turn makes the VR5+ questing tolerable.
The last big Con is - DK/VAMP -- when one class (especially the Vampire) becomes so overwhelmingly played by 80% of the PVP population, you completely undermine the selling points of the customization ability of the game. Nightblades, Templars - they got nothing to offer that a DK can't do better - Sorcs have a few cool things (especially the teleport) but having played one.. .I've got nothing good or bad to say. And before you say -- "you should try a Nightblade with a Destro staff and a restoration staff --- they are pretty legit." - Come on.. its a nightblade, I like the option, but that's not what nightblades nor what most people want to do that roll one.
Overall -- ESO isn't dead, I'm not quitting "yet", and I love so many other facets of the game -- but the Cons mentioned above will lead to F2P or worse if not addressed immediately. People are quitting right and left (most all of my guild is gone) and most don't go back 6 months later and give a game another look. Time is of the essence and if you want a model that holds true with a subscription based MMO, then BIG changes need to happen in the next 30 days or it will be too late.
Well the game is still keeping me interested after a few months, so I got my moneys worth. I am what you call a casual mmo gamer now, because I still find time in other games to try out, including WS.
ESO to me feels like I can take my time and I am not missing out on anything of importance. To be in a world that doesn't feel too restrictive is fine by me, it's games like Warhammer, AoC and SWTOR which were total upsets for me since those 3 games feel like I was totally boxed in and felt very much linear than most themepark mmo's we have now.
I am going to stick it out with ESO and play it out and see where it takes me. WS is my guilty pleasure and thank god both games to me feel entirely different.
Could in fact make you understand most play ESO like a ES game and take their time.
I am no where near VR levels, actually got 3 characters level 17 and my Templar at 18.
Playing since 3day headstart. Due to experiance in this genre I will not set myself up to go to cap lvl this quick besides it's a ES game.
I keep seeing people while I play, some I help, sometimes they help, been in a few PUGs had fun but they always end up with being the none-speaking pugs which I don't mind with a game this young after release. Community's mature often the 3 to 6 months mark.
Havn't experiance much of the bugs thought the occasional bot pops up, but far less then it use to be.
The problem with MMORPG's today has more to do with people not understanding/knowing the difference between how a singleplayer game works, are developed compared to how complex a MMORPG is to develop atleast based on the way some people complain.
You don't spend 200million + making a "niche" game. The game flopped, big time. The development team apparently failed to listen to their customer base, or to even consider what customers really wanted. They built the game they wanted, and it hasn't resonated with the MMORPG audience, or with the Skyrim/Elderscrolls audience.
Back in beta I noted it reminded me very much of SWTOR. Old, dated, and belonging to a time when World of Warcraft featured the most advanced MMORPG mechanics of the time.
Fan boys and elitists will argue about everyone wanting easy, no one wanting to "work" for it...and that right there is the niche market. Because the elitists are totally correct. No one wants to "work" when playing anymore, the market has rejected that thought process. They want the UI to help them have fun, whatever they choose that to be. They want the game systems to assist them, they want grouping and finding content to be easy and quick. In short, they no longer want Everquest or WoW style game mechanics and time sinks.
Guild Wars 2, Wildstar, Rift...those are the types of mechanics that the modern MMO player is looking for. Take a look at Destiny's featureset, and recognise also that Blizzard did a total reversal on their MMO development for the same reason : no one wants the outdated mechanics anymore.
Zenimax created a (rumoured) 200 million dollar niche game. Just like SWTOR. And it's going to go the same way as SWTOR.
Bethesda was better off creating a Co-Op Elder Scrolls game with better world creation and modding tools, something the community actually wanted and something they were very good at.
Pretty much...
The founders beta is already half price @ Amazon - I'm hoping this launches B2P or F2P before 6.0 so I have something semi-exciting to play around with this summer/fall...
If I had to guess it seems to be less than the first 2 weeks (pre-batswarm issue..), but more since patch 1.2. Battles are as huge and epic as ever and population is stable, if not growing again.
A lot of good points above, some I agree with, others seem more like they got their feelings hurt by another's post. To me, ESO boils down to this - (I'm a VR8 Nighblade btw)
Pros: Graphics are good, Most Quests are interesting and story driven, RvR is cool and impressive, massive world with lots to experience - TONS OF UPSIDE!!!
Cons: Too much questing (or not enough experience) and extremely low population once you hit VR5+ zones - sometimes you don't even see a zone chat message flash across your screen for an hour. Most people don't mind grinds, but the end game grinds should be about obtaining end game gear, not a continuation of random questing with random blue/green gear drops.
Even a bigger Con is (for those of us that enjoy PVP) is no alternate PVP in the game. RVR is cool, but lets face it, it gets laggy and for some of us, 30+ on 30+ takes some of the personal skill out of game -- it's just a mass load of people (yes I get the strategy) and when you get killed, it's usually by 5 or 10 people at once - takes the personal 1x1 skill completely out of it. I know if they offered some arenas, maybe domination or capture the flag with a 3x3, 5x5 or 6x6 type of format, it would keep a big part of the population that is currently leaving. Some people just need a quick fix (Get in and out) PVP which in turn makes the VR5+ questing tolerable as you are limited to just RVR or the Grind.
The last big Con is - class balance. I get this is argued in every mmo but .. when one class (mainly talking about the Vampire) becomes so overwhelmingly played by 80% of the PVP population, you completely undermine the selling points of the customization ability of the game for PVPers. I'm a Nightblade, not a vampire (although I tried it), so I can't really speak for other classes, but I know and talk to Templars (say they are gimped), DK's (agree they are OP'd), and Sorcs (who really don't complain much) but I've heard-- "you should try a Nightblade with a Destro staff and a restoration staff --- they are pretty legit." - Come on.. its a nightblade, I like the option, but that's not what people or roll stealthy classes want to do. I don't want to be forced to a specific class and into RVR if I want to PVP with success. I also don't want to feel like I'm playing an MMO called Twilight.
Overall -- ESO isn't dead, I'm not quitting "yet", and I love so many other facets of the game -- but the Cons mentioned above will lead to F2P or worse if not addressed immediately. People are quitting right and left (most all of my guild is gone) and most don't go back 6 months later and give a game another look. Time is of the essence and if you want a model that holds true with a subscription based MMO, then BIG changes need to happen in the next 30 days or it will be too late.
There is nothing wrong with the game, it is just linear and failed to provide a lot of the (mildly) sandboxy and exploration features I would expect in a game that shares an IP with Skyrim.
My problem was the bugs and the bots; each new patch seemed to bring as many new bugs as those it fixed. I left the game anticipating I would return when it was in a better state, but then I simply felt no desire to go back. I would imagine I am not the only person in this position.
Trials, Delves, Group dungeons, Grind ghosts, PVE in cyrodil, PVP in cyrodil, Craft, Caldwells journal, etc, etc....
Plenty to do, as much if not more then other mmos ( not sure what you people consider the gold standard when every older mmo out there is a giant hunk of dated shit, with equal or less content and they have had years to do so..... why so much ESO hate when the game is less then a few months old
I got to VR1 and felt like it was slow....for about 2 minutes and then I realized how much there is to do in order to level.
Its a sad day when you realize the majority of the players who post here are really impatient or never played an mmo that involved any form of work for you reward.
If you don't like the game that's one thing, but all the arguments I see for disliking come down to lack of motivation to get into it, and clearly that only shows that its either not your style of mmo or you didn't even give it enough o fa chance.
I personally don't grind the alliance maps all the time but I do enjoy them so much more then the first time around since it's actually challenging now and I have valuable skills that are morphed, and other that I re-morphed and get to work on again. If this makes you butt-hurt go play WoW and level to 90 in 5 minutes, enjoy that while it lasts.
The progression path might be somewhat linear, but mainly because it's a ES game I still can explore well beyond my level if I choose. And like any ES player I could care less about the XP gain aslong it's fun and challenging which ESO provides, even in the area's I am not supose to be in give me some challenge even when dying allot when fighting 5 to 9+ levels above me. In fact it gives me pleasure to know I got something to look forward to and meanwhile develop better skills/ability's.
I love being able to explore allot again ESO provides this. It's even meaningfull to explore, you never know what type of resource, node, chest, quest, or what ever you might run into.
REKLAW ... THANK YOU
"The problem with MMORPG's today has more to do with people not understanding/knowing the difference between how a singleplayer game works, are developed compared to how complex a MMORPG is to develop atleast based on the way some people complain."- Reklaw
RAMUR65 ... THANK YOU
"MMO players now days dont play mmos for their full potential anymore they play it just for god who knows because most of them hate the questing or they hates the hunting of mobs(grinding) they refuse to immerse themselve in the lore and gameworld for which the mmo genre is fully meant to be played for.Most players need to gtho out of the genre and go back to sp games."
Damn I really wish I would have thought to word it like this . :P
Good on you gentlemen.
I would love to see someone logically disagree w/ this.... not possible
Bought it today, installing now. Looking forward to play
Playing: TESO (great!)
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Most looking forward for: Everquest Next
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Have Played: World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy XI, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Vanguard, Everquest Online Adventures, Everquest 1, EverQuest 2, Dungeons & Dragons Online, The Chronical of Spellborn, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Aion, CoH, Loong, Dragon nest, LoL, Alods, Diablo 3, NWN, Tera, Poe, Guild Wars 2, Rift
Most favorite; Everquest online Adventures (EQOA, 2003, PS2)
Glad you feel this way; I didn't hence not being fussed about returning.
I would agree -- but if you don't see a worthy "Reward" at the end, then you've got nothing. I don't know about you, but I'll work had, grind, stay up late, go to work tired, but if there is not "worthy reward" then I'm out- and right now, I'm not seeing the reward. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder and what your after on a personal level - but either listen to your paying customers (many of who are spot on above) and you keep a large population and stay Pay to Play and keep developing "Top Level type of Content" or your fall to your niche game and go F2P and then deal with changing dynamics of how to fund additional content and how epic that will even be-- and then usually turns into pay to win. This isn't Pay to Play worthy as it stands now, they have to broaden/correct and make changes (and fix some stuff). Even if it's going to take some time (like you said, game only 2 months old) -they need to acknowledge the masses in their own forums and let us know what they are doing about it. MMO's are about doing what you enjoy doing best (we are all different, I get that)-- RP, Crafting, Questing, getting that cool armor look, achievements, grouping, socialization, PVP, farming a rare mount, etc. This games has some of that, some of it need improvement, some of it doesn't, etc - but for those whose endgame is PVP - we want Open World, RVR, Arenas, Ranking Ladders, 2x2, 3x3, 5x5, Capture the Flag, Domination, straight up death match, dueling - and for those whose are in it for something else - maybe being Emperor in a lag ridden world of Vampires-- this is the right game for them. Bottom line - it's headed down the path of SWTOR - and maybe that's ok- maybe this is a niche game. Mark my words though, coming soon to a computer near you - server consolidation, F2P, P2W - been there, seen it, wrote posts like this before it happened. I'll keep waiting, watching, wishing for the best and hoping I'm wrong until then.
I'm still plugging along and enjoying the game. My highest is only 37? I think and I play an alts when spouse isn't around. The key to keeping the game fresh for me is playing it in spurts. Not sure if it is MMO burnout overall but keeping my play session in manageable chunks is my preferred style of play these days.
I also find that concentrating on a single quest at a time versus sucking them all up ala Hoover Vacuum cleaner keeps the lore sorted out for me nicely. I'm certainly enjoying the slower pace of the game and probably won't hit the higher levels any time soon.
Then once again, the issue is just "loot and xp".
Basically people wanting to level to the ultimate cap as quickly as possible, putting up with quests but in reality probably just wanting an end game "game".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
This is what the End Zone is now
Kill Boss "A", then move to Boss "B", then on to Boss "C"
wait...
wait...
ok go back to Boss "A"
then there's this "LFG trials" then 20 minutes later, not enough contestant, so, lets join the boss grind train..
oh damn, this is getting boring, im going back to the VR Alliance zone.
oh shit, where the hell is everyone?
this sums up the VR zone as of right now
Cheers
oh, as to answer this thread, i pretty much unsubbed when i reach VR12 and i had no idea what to do in the game anymore, Cyrodil is getting bland and pretty much that's it
maybe i will re sub like 5 months from now
So What Now?
And this is a clear example of a TESO 'hater': FUD, lies and exaggeration (starting with the 200 mil budget, any fonts for that btw? lol)