Originally posted by Quizzical Most people don't like highly repetitive grinding of the same mobs for hours on end. A game built around this won't have very many players. That's why most games don't try it anymore.
It isn't about mob grind replace currents quest hubs system but about more option for player to chose.
People can quests as they want ,
do all the quests which ask they kill N number of mobs and they search "end" level.
Or they just go and kill same N number mobs without take any quests and they can search "end" level too.
I believe it fair deal.
Everyone happy , people love quests do quests , People tired of quest just go out and hunt mobs as they want.
And of course , no extra work for developers . It simple remove exp reward design from quest from the start of develop.
Originally posted by kaiser3282 Lots of grind games still exist. Funny thing is whenever one comes out I see some of the same people in this thread complaining about the fact that those games are "yet another boring grinder" or something similar.
Most of the mob-grind games are made for the Asian market. The majority of the rest of the world prefers more variation in their gaming and less monotonous grinding.
The entire leveling experience needs a fresh perspective. Arbitrary levels, stat points, and the experience system are just a way for developers to follow the same simplistic "bigger numbers = more fun" formula. How can we have a MMO without bigger levels and better gear? I don't pretend to know all of the answers, but two examples I can think of are DAOC and Guild Wars 1.
The original Guild Wars had non-linear character progression through the acquisition of skills. Gear never got better and they never increased the level cap. Acquiring more skills meant you could create a diversity of builds to handle different situations.
The game I had the most fun in at end-game was DAOC. It had stat caps and never increased their level cap. The challenge became to see who could work best as a team, instead of just simply getting the next uber sword of undead orc-anus-flaying.
Originally posted by Quizzical Most people don't like highly repetitive grinding of the same mobs for hours on end. A game built around this won't have very many players. That's why most games don't try it anymore.
It about mob grind replace currents quest hubs system but about more option for player to chose.
People can quests as they want ,
do all the quests which ask they kill N number of mobs and they search "end" level.
Or they just go and kill same N number mobs without take any quests and they can search "end" level too.
I believe it fair deal.
Everyone happy , people love quests do quests , People tired of quest just go out and hunt mobs as they want.
And of course , no extra work for developers . It simple remove exp reward design from quest from the start of develop.
What bad about it if it can please more people.
And why exactly can't people do that right now? Just about every quest hub theme park game on the market also gives you experience for killing mobs.
I'm surprised that there are so many replies agreeing with the OP. Do you all not realize that there are still mobs out in the wilds of the game that you can go grind for xp? I do that sometimes, if I don't want to quest, I go kill mobs. It's about choice. Choices all players have. Most games don't force you to quest, players do it because its easier. But again, that's their choice. They're given an option, and yet what do they do? Head to do the main thing they complain about in this thread.
"Wah, these WoW clones are just turning everything into easy mode for the entitled casuals. We want hard mode like original EQ" are complaints I commonly hear. And yet, these same individuals are usually the ones speeding through quests to avoid the grind...the same grind they turn around and complain about in other threads about other MMOs (usually Asian) that cater more to mob grinding.
No wonder modern devs can't seem to get their games right, they're in a no win situation. Don't blame the games, blame the players.
I still feel you can come up with your own purpose. Why can't you just go kill some rats and bring their tails back to a vendor to sell? Isn't that almost the same as having someone tell you to kill 10 rats? You could also go and help defend a city against the local threat (Orcs, Goblins, Gaints, Whatever) without having someone to tell you to do it. There is a lot people can do if they want to. It seemed most people would just take the safest route in EQ though. The death penalty scared them away from going into dungeons or dangerous areas in most cases. Personally I like to have the freedom of choice. I'd rather make my own quests as I go along. I don't really need any in game tools to do it short of being able to loot things off mobs and maybe have faction changes for killing them. Another reason to kill certain mobs might be crafting. I believe most people would feel lost and angry in a game with no direction though. Even I feel it sometimes when I play such games. I get to a certain point and wonder why can I go to progress further, but am not certain where that place is. You have to have a certain resolve to go and find that place knowing you might get killed doing so.
Another "I don't want to level" posts cleverly disguised as a "Bring back mob exp" post. They are one in the same.
Don't believe me? You do get XP for killing rats. Kill them to your hearts content. Oh wait, it takes 10 times longer to level that way. Consider it your own form of masochism. You'll be all the better for it by proclaiming that you never once gathered an Orc anus. There might even be an achievement in it... try it and find out!
I agree with the OP on this.. In early mmo's you could quest or go solo mob hunting and lvl up that way if you chose to. But now in the newer games they don't want you doing this so mob hunting is worthless. I remember in Anarchy online mod hunting was a challenge because mobs in the wild really hit hard and you got great xp from it. We would form hunting teams. I think i'm going to redownload that game and make a froob account to just play the original base game. I hear the froob community is making a come back in that game as it seems new games just don't cut it anymore.
I'm surprised that there are so many replies agreeing with the OP. Do you all not realize that there are still mobs out in the wilds of the game that you can go grind for xp? I do that sometimes, if I don't want to quest, I go kill mobs. It's about choice. Choices all players have. Most games don't force you to quest, players do it because its easier. But again, that's their choice. They're given an option, and yet what do they do? Head to do the main thing they complain about in this thread.
"Wah, these WoW clones are just turning everything into easy mode for the entitled casuals. We want hard mode like original EQ" are complaints I commonly hear. And yet, these same individuals are usually the ones speeding through quests to avoid the grind...the same grind they turn around and complain about in other threads about other MMOs (usually Asian) that cater more to mob grinding.
No wonder modern devs can't seem to get their games right, they're in a no win situation. Don't blame the games, blame the players.
Name me one mmo out there where I can go and grind mobs and progress at the same rate as if I was questing. Anybody can grind of course but if its a slower way of leveling then nobody will do it. We need games that offers grinding as a real alternative to questing.
whoever claims mmos are not about quests and story, got it wrong, as simple.
DAoC for example was ALL about quests. they just send you to grind mobs. so how can you actually dare to claim "story quests are so not mmo!".
that's plain and simple bullshit.
Er, no, DAOC had kill tasks to level 20, but even these weren't nearly as efficient as grinding a camp of mobs with a group. After level 20, you were grinding NPC's pretty much non stop, again, with a group for max efficiency unless you were a necromancer or other class with strong soloing capability. Strangely enough, I returned last year to play a circa 2003 version of DAOC and found I really enjoyed camp grinding mobs again, and I was soloing in most cases as they had bumped up the experience gain in the frontiers, where I leveled almost exclusively while solo.
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by iixviiiix
Originally posted by Quizzical Most people don't like highly repetitive grinding of the same mobs for hours on end. A game built around this won't have very many players. That's why most games don't try it anymore.
It about mob grind replace currents quest hubs system but about more option for player to chose.
People can quests as they want ,
do all the quests which ask they kill N number of mobs and they search "end" level.
Or they just go and kill same N number mobs without take any quests and they can search "end" level too.
I believe it fair deal.
Everyone happy , people love quests do quests , People tired of quest just go out and hunt mobs as they want.
And of course , no extra work for developers . It simple remove exp reward design from quest from the start of develop.
What bad about it if it can please more people.
And why exactly can't people do that right now? Just about every quest hub theme park game on the market also gives you experience for killing mobs.
Because it isn't efficient. No reason to grind on NPC's for 4 hours if the experience gain is significantly inferior to grinding quests. Same reason you don't group up to gain experience if soloing is substantially easier and more efficient than trying to group up, which is almost always the case in quest oriented games of the past 10 years or so.
In DAOC grinding camps or dungeons with a group was substantially more efficient than soloing, and while the game had quests, you did them for lore or gear perhaps, but not because they were the best way to level up your character.
Don't kid yourself, for a large segment of the gaming population, the draw of these games isn't "fun", it is progression, and they will do the activities that are most efficient in progressing their characters, even if the activity itself is actually quite hateful.
ArcheAge is a good example, I just finished grinding up via quests a character to level 50, now I'm going to spend time focusing on the activities I actually find more fun, like PVP, trading, crafting and running with the guild. One reason I left ESO is that almost mind numbing quest grind through VR levels and expansions before you can basically reach the point that I've reached in AA in about 5 or 6 weeks of casual gameplay.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Name me one mmo out there where I can go and grind mobs and progress at the same rate as if I was questing. Anybody can grind of course but if its a slower way of leveling then nobody will do it. We need games that offers grinding as a real alternative to questing.
Agree , what matter here is the exp rate between 2 play styles which quest hubs is better because of large among EXP reward.
As for the post "I don't want to level" , it kind of wrong here.
Most of the agree posts with OP only want the balance same EXP rate between 2 styles which you still need to play like quests hubs and share same among of time killing mobs .
Maybe just hunt mobs are shorter among of time because players don't need to moving around chase after quests.
But for the fair , you do quests and you get in game gold , fame and sometime items reward.
The balance which we believe make game better are what we want to discuss .
I have said for years that questing is what killed the social aspect in mmos. It made it so the best way of progression was for you to be alone going around doing quest with out the need of help from anybody.
Yes yes, i know we still able to "just kill mobs" in most of MMORPG.
But what
The problem not lay in allow to do it or not but the balance between the play style.
Basically you kill same among of mobs but other play style (quests hubs) reward double or triple of exp.
Here the unbalance of exp gain are the matter.
we bring it here to discussion because we believe more balance between the play style , more better the game is.
If you think it bad to balance 2 play style (mobs hunt and quest hubs) , you can say why it bad for the game if the 2 style are balance. lol
But use argues like "most game have it" are kill the discussion ,
it not fun , you know ? After all it just discussion .
And it seem like some can't see the difference between old time "heavy grind" EXP curve and nowadays game exp curve ,
they auto put "mobs hunt" = "heavy grind" .
What make old grind worst is the large EXP curve which make nowadays EXP curve are more casual.
The main reason it cant be balanced is simple math. If you give a certain set amount of XP for killing mobs, then anyone killing those mobs for a quest will get that same XP + XP from the quest reward. The quester will always advance faster.
The only way the quester would not advance faster is if you removed the XP from the quest, but thats different than balancing the 2 styles and simply removing the quest advancement style.
Certain systems could be implemented where you do something like say gain a big boost in XP for killing X amount of a type of mob.. but thats essentially the same as doing a quest for "KIll X of this mob". Even if you dont consider it the same as doing a quest, a quester would still advance faster since they could kill enough to get that bonus, then also go turn in whatever quest they had.
Probably the simplest and closest thing to balance the 2 would be to add some sort of timers. I guess something similar to the chain bonuses in FFXIV:ARR, where killing mobs at or above your level add to your kill chain counter and increase the bonus XP you get for continung to kill mobs before the timer runs out and you have to reset the chain again. If implemented properly it would allow someone steadily farming mobs nonstop to build up enough bonus XP to offset the average amount of XP people are gaining from questing in that same amount of time at that level range.
On a side note: 1 of the big issues with the entire system of mob xp grinding (and probably 1 of the reasons why many games started steering away from that and focusing on quests instead) is the differences in class capabilities. Usually such a system offers a huge advantage to classes capable of doing massive AoE damage while single target DPS, tanks, and healers fall way behind in XP gains based purely on mob kills due to much longer TTK for that same number of mobs. On the flip side, the majority of quest based games tend to be fairly balanced out in leveling speed between the classes due to bigger chunks of XP coming from quest completions which generally dont have huge time differences to complete between classes. Sure, someone might be able to kill those 10 mobs slightly faster, but its only 10 mobs, so the overall time involved is pretty small. But when youre comparing that to farming hundreds of mobs in a row in order to get decent XP then you get to see a big difference in leveling speeds.
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo Mobs do give experience points so you can grind on them if you want. On top of that the amount of exp needed to get next level is nothing compared to old mmos. WoW was my first themepark mmo and when I went into it I didnt know questing was the fastest way to level and played it like any other mmo before it, so I grinded on mobs for like 40 levels and did it real fast and thought this was easy compared to Final Fantasy 11 and I could do it solo.
I did and thought the exact same thing. Quests in FFXI got you better gear, new spells, etc no one even thought about quests giving exp. points.
I mean really you had a quest to fish up 10,000 moat carp that took ages and you got the best fishing pole in the game at the time that did sell for a huge amount of gill if you didn't want it for fishing but it never resaulted in any substantial xp gain. I really miss those types of things.
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard The main advantage for the developers to reduce mob XP and to give more quest XP is that it's an excellent weapon against bots. I don't see this stop anytime soon.
That was my first thought when read this. A game that could be mob farmed would have more bots than players in it.
It all goes hand in foot thing is developers lack the creative talent or intelligence that the industry once thrived in.
These days they can either make good combat and crap story or great story and crap combat, they can't balance a world where combat and story are both relevant, arc and intertwine each other and players can choose how to play by the way they are feeling.
Also someone needs to teach these developers what a balanced economy is, haven't seen one of those in a while....a very, very long while.
I like the EQ2 system: you can halt the XP gaining from mobs or quests. I think it's great not to overlevel mobs all the time.
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Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard The main advantage for the developers to reduce mob XP and to give more quest XP is that it's an excellent weapon against bots. I don't see this stop anytime soon.
Except there are bots.
There are bots in WoW, inESO, apparently in Wildstar.
In Lineage 2, because of "xp" the bots would delevel so they could stay in one area and farm.
To that end, if its gold that is being farmed, it doesn't take long to level a character in most quest based games. Once at the top the bots can have a field day.
I don't see it as too much of a deterrent.
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I'm surprised that there are so many replies agreeing with the OP. Do you all not realize that there are still mobs out in the wilds of the game that you can go grind for xp? I do that sometimes, if I don't want to quest, I go kill mobs. It's about choice. Choices all players have. Most games don't force you to quest, players do it because its easier. But again, that's their choice. They're given an option, and yet what do they do? Head to do the main thing they complain about in this thread.
"Wah, these WoW clones are just turning everything into easy mode for the entitled casuals. We want hard mode like original EQ" are complaints I commonly hear. And yet, these same individuals are usually the ones speeding through quests to avoid the grind...the same grind they turn around and complain about in other threads about other MMOs (usually Asian) that cater more to mob grinding.
No wonder modern devs can't seem to get their games right, they're in a no win situation. Don't blame the games, blame the players.
Name me one mmo out there where I can go and grind mobs and progress at the same rate as if I was questing. Anybody can grind of course but if its a slower way of leveling then nobody will do it. We need games that offers grinding as a real alternative to questing.
Name one place in my post where I said the leveling pace would be equal? I didn't. What I answered was the OP's "bring back mob xp". What I'm saying is that mob xp never left, so he can go and do that. Questing just makes things faster so most choose that route even though they do have other options. What he is asking for is the old style mob grinding in place before quests. But it's still there, and just as slow of a process as it was originally (correct me if I'm wrong). So what, are you saying now that you want the old style of leveling but in "fast easy mode edition" with "xp boost"? Or saying take xp from quests totally so only the niche who enjoyed mob grinding will enjoy it?
Oh, btw, In Tera you can grind BAMs to level fairly equally (I would actually say at times faster) than questing. So yes, there are games that offer that.
This brings back memories of grinding mobs in SWG on death row, a new player could grind the low level mobs that were just outside the city.
Playing L2, Aion, SWG, and a few others has made grinding become second nature to me, so now I usually grind between quests which means I can pick and choose which content I do.
SWTOR and Archeage gives bonus xp for mob grinding during quests. I actually enjoyed grinding events in GW2. ESO was great for having a variety of ways to earn xp till they nerfed it which put the game on rails.
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Grind became a negative thing over time as more single player people entered the fray.
I still get on my full raid geared lvl 70 monk to play with people leveling up when I'm bored. Walls of slaughter ftw.
I disagree, grind just changed. It stopped being about grinding mobs for XP and became about grinding dungeons for gear. It sopped being about the journey and became more about reaching the destination.
This the main reason I found EQ 1 extremely boring. It was one of hte most boring games I have ever played. Kill mobs until your eyes bleed. Camp mobs for hours on end and levelling up seemed like an endless process. The whole thing seemed like it was designed to be anti-fun!
So no, I would rather there be more to MMOs than simple grinding of mobs. Killing rats for 10 hours. Talk about fun. It's a cheap way of designing a game too. There are games which take only 10 hours to complete but at least they are not mindless ordeals and are actually...fun?
Ultima Online had the right idea. Level up skills by using them, something which you also see in the elder scrolls series. EQ model was a themepark ride where people were just grinding mob camps. Boooooring!
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Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard The main advantage for the developers to reduce mob XP and to give more quest XP is that it's an excellent weapon against bots. I don't see this stop anytime soon.
Except there are bots.
There are bots in WoW, inESO, apparently in Wildstar.
In Lineage 2, because of "xp" the bots would delevel so they could stay in one area and farm.
To that end, if its gold that is being farmed, it doesn't take long to level a character in most quest based games. Once at the top the bots can have a field day.
I don't see it as too much of a deterrent.
Of course you see nothing since you completely missed my point.
If mob XP was higher and quest XP lower to balance, bots would be much more efficient.
It's so easy to program a bot grinding mobs respawning at the same place over and over again it's not even funny. It's MUCH harder to create bots grinding quests, specially if the quests are more dynamic like they tend to be in all games nowadays.
While it certainly may be a solution to the botting problem, it's not the correct solution. You should not take away NPC grinding from the legitimate players just because someone may chose to bot, the solution is to go after the botters with a vengence.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Comments
It isn't about mob grind replace currents quest hubs system but about more option for player to chose.
People can quests as they want ,
do all the quests which ask they kill N number of mobs and they search "end" level.
Or they just go and kill same N number mobs without take any quests and they can search "end" level too.
I believe it fair deal.
Everyone happy , people love quests do quests , People tired of quest just go out and hunt mobs as they want.
And of course , no extra work for developers . It simple remove exp reward design from quest from the start of develop.
What bad about it if it can please more people.
Most of the mob-grind games are made for the Asian market. The majority of the rest of the world prefers more variation in their gaming and less monotonous grinding.
The entire leveling experience needs a fresh perspective. Arbitrary levels, stat points, and the experience system are just a way for developers to follow the same simplistic "bigger numbers = more fun" formula. How can we have a MMO without bigger levels and better gear? I don't pretend to know all of the answers, but two examples I can think of are DAOC and Guild Wars 1.
The original Guild Wars had non-linear character progression through the acquisition of skills. Gear never got better and they never increased the level cap. Acquiring more skills meant you could create a diversity of builds to handle different situations.
The game I had the most fun in at end-game was DAOC. It had stat caps and never increased their level cap. The challenge became to see who could work best as a team, instead of just simply getting the next uber sword of undead orc-anus-flaying.
And why exactly can't people do that right now? Just about every quest hub theme park game on the market also gives you experience for killing mobs.
Sigh, I should have been born a Korean.
I'm surprised that there are so many replies agreeing with the OP. Do you all not realize that there are still mobs out in the wilds of the game that you can go grind for xp? I do that sometimes, if I don't want to quest, I go kill mobs. It's about choice. Choices all players have. Most games don't force you to quest, players do it because its easier. But again, that's their choice. They're given an option, and yet what do they do? Head to do the main thing they complain about in this thread.
"Wah, these WoW clones are just turning everything into easy mode for the entitled casuals. We want hard mode like original EQ" are complaints I commonly hear. And yet, these same individuals are usually the ones speeding through quests to avoid the grind...the same grind they turn around and complain about in other threads about other MMOs (usually Asian) that cater more to mob grinding.
No wonder modern devs can't seem to get their games right, they're in a no win situation. Don't blame the games, blame the players.
Yes yes, i know we still able to "just kill mobs" in most of MMORPG.
But what
The problem not lay in allow to do it or not but the balance between the play style.
Basically you kill same among of mobs but other play style (quests hubs) reward double or triple of exp.
Here the unbalance of exp gain are the matter.
we bring it here to discussion because we believe more balance between the play style , more better the game is.
If you think it bad to balance 2 play style (mobs hunt and quest hubs) , you can say why it bad for the game if the 2 style are balance. lol
But use argues like "most game have it" are kill the discussion ,
it not fun , you know ? After all it just discussion .
And it seem like some can't see the difference between old time "heavy grind" EXP curve and nowadays game exp curve ,
they auto put "mobs hunt" = "heavy grind" .
What make old grind worst is the large EXP curve which make nowadays EXP curve are more casual.
Another "I don't want to level" posts cleverly disguised as a "Bring back mob exp" post. They are one in the same.
Don't believe me? You do get XP for killing rats. Kill them to your hearts content. Oh wait, it takes 10 times longer to level that way. Consider it your own form of masochism. You'll be all the better for it by proclaiming that you never once gathered an Orc anus. There might even be an achievement in it... try it and find out!
Name me one mmo out there where I can go and grind mobs and progress at the same rate as if I was questing. Anybody can grind of course but if its a slower way of leveling then nobody will do it. We need games that offers grinding as a real alternative to questing.
Er, no, DAOC had kill tasks to level 20, but even these weren't nearly as efficient as grinding a camp of mobs with a group. After level 20, you were grinding NPC's pretty much non stop, again, with a group for max efficiency unless you were a necromancer or other class with strong soloing capability. Strangely enough, I returned last year to play a circa 2003 version of DAOC and found I really enjoyed camp grinding mobs again, and I was soloing in most cases as they had bumped up the experience gain in the frontiers, where I leveled almost exclusively while solo.
Because it isn't efficient. No reason to grind on NPC's for 4 hours if the experience gain is significantly inferior to grinding quests. Same reason you don't group up to gain experience if soloing is substantially easier and more efficient than trying to group up, which is almost always the case in quest oriented games of the past 10 years or so.
In DAOC grinding camps or dungeons with a group was substantially more efficient than soloing, and while the game had quests, you did them for lore or gear perhaps, but not because they were the best way to level up your character.
Don't kid yourself, for a large segment of the gaming population, the draw of these games isn't "fun", it is progression, and they will do the activities that are most efficient in progressing their characters, even if the activity itself is actually quite hateful.
ArcheAge is a good example, I just finished grinding up via quests a character to level 50, now I'm going to spend time focusing on the activities I actually find more fun, like PVP, trading, crafting and running with the guild. One reason I left ESO is that almost mind numbing quest grind through VR levels and expansions before you can basically reach the point that I've reached in AA in about 5 or 6 weeks of casual gameplay.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Agree , what matter here is the exp rate between 2 play styles which quest hubs is better because of large among EXP reward.
As for the post "I don't want to level" , it kind of wrong here.
Most of the agree posts with OP only want the balance same EXP rate between 2 styles which you still need to play like quests hubs and share same among of time killing mobs .
Maybe just hunt mobs are shorter among of time because players don't need to moving around chase after quests.
But for the fair , you do quests and you get in game gold , fame and sometime items reward.
The balance which we believe make game better are what we want to discuss .
I have said for years that questing is what killed the social aspect in mmos. It made it so the best way of progression was for you to be alone going around doing quest with out the need of help from anybody.
The main reason it cant be balanced is simple math. If you give a certain set amount of XP for killing mobs, then anyone killing those mobs for a quest will get that same XP + XP from the quest reward. The quester will always advance faster.
The only way the quester would not advance faster is if you removed the XP from the quest, but thats different than balancing the 2 styles and simply removing the quest advancement style.
Certain systems could be implemented where you do something like say gain a big boost in XP for killing X amount of a type of mob.. but thats essentially the same as doing a quest for "KIll X of this mob". Even if you dont consider it the same as doing a quest, a quester would still advance faster since they could kill enough to get that bonus, then also go turn in whatever quest they had.
Probably the simplest and closest thing to balance the 2 would be to add some sort of timers. I guess something similar to the chain bonuses in FFXIV:ARR, where killing mobs at or above your level add to your kill chain counter and increase the bonus XP you get for continung to kill mobs before the timer runs out and you have to reset the chain again. If implemented properly it would allow someone steadily farming mobs nonstop to build up enough bonus XP to offset the average amount of XP people are gaining from questing in that same amount of time at that level range.
On a side note: 1 of the big issues with the entire system of mob xp grinding (and probably 1 of the reasons why many games started steering away from that and focusing on quests instead) is the differences in class capabilities. Usually such a system offers a huge advantage to classes capable of doing massive AoE damage while single target DPS, tanks, and healers fall way behind in XP gains based purely on mob kills due to much longer TTK for that same number of mobs. On the flip side, the majority of quest based games tend to be fairly balanced out in leveling speed between the classes due to bigger chunks of XP coming from quest completions which generally dont have huge time differences to complete between classes. Sure, someone might be able to kill those 10 mobs slightly faster, but its only 10 mobs, so the overall time involved is pretty small. But when youre comparing that to farming hundreds of mobs in a row in order to get decent XP then you get to see a big difference in leveling speeds.
I did and thought the exact same thing. Quests in FFXI got you better gear, new spells, etc no one even thought about quests giving exp. points.
I mean really you had a quest to fish up 10,000 moat carp that took ages and you got the best fishing pole in the game at the time that did sell for a huge amount of gill if you didn't want it for fishing but it never resaulted in any substantial xp gain. I really miss those types of things.
That was my first thought when read this. A game that could be mob farmed would have more bots than players in it.
It all goes hand in foot thing is developers lack the creative talent or intelligence that the industry once thrived in.
These days they can either make good combat and crap story or great story and crap combat, they can't balance a world where combat and story are both relevant, arc and intertwine each other and players can choose how to play by the way they are feeling.
Also someone needs to teach these developers what a balanced economy is, haven't seen one of those in a while....a very, very long while.
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Except there are bots.
There are bots in WoW, inESO, apparently in Wildstar.
In Lineage 2, because of "xp" the bots would delevel so they could stay in one area and farm.
To that end, if its gold that is being farmed, it doesn't take long to level a character in most quest based games. Once at the top the bots can have a field day.
I don't see it as too much of a deterrent.
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Name one place in my post where I said the leveling pace would be equal? I didn't. What I answered was the OP's "bring back mob xp". What I'm saying is that mob xp never left, so he can go and do that. Questing just makes things faster so most choose that route even though they do have other options. What he is asking for is the old style mob grinding in place before quests. But it's still there, and just as slow of a process as it was originally (correct me if I'm wrong). So what, are you saying now that you want the old style of leveling but in "fast easy mode edition" with "xp boost"? Or saying take xp from quests totally so only the niche who enjoyed mob grinding will enjoy it?
Oh, btw, In Tera you can grind BAMs to level fairly equally (I would actually say at times faster) than questing. So yes, there are games that offer that.
This brings back memories of grinding mobs in SWG on death row, a new player could grind the low level mobs that were just outside the city.
Playing L2, Aion, SWG, and a few others has made grinding become second nature to me, so now I usually grind between quests which means I can pick and choose which content I do.
SWTOR and Archeage gives bonus xp for mob grinding during quests. I actually enjoyed grinding events in GW2. ESO was great for having a variety of ways to earn xp till they nerfed it which put the game on rails.
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Play D3, or other ARPGs then.
Nothing but unapologetic monster killing with fun combat. Everything else is streamlined, with a fun meta game of exploring builds.
I disagree, grind just changed. It stopped being about grinding mobs for XP and became about grinding dungeons for gear. It sopped being about the journey and became more about reaching the destination.
This the main reason I found EQ 1 extremely boring. It was one of hte most boring games I have ever played. Kill mobs until your eyes bleed. Camp mobs for hours on end and levelling up seemed like an endless process. The whole thing seemed like it was designed to be anti-fun!
So no, I would rather there be more to MMOs than simple grinding of mobs. Killing rats for 10 hours. Talk about fun. It's a cheap way of designing a game too. There are games which take only 10 hours to complete but at least they are not mindless ordeals and are actually...fun?
Ultima Online had the right idea. Level up skills by using them, something which you also see in the elder scrolls series. EQ model was a themepark ride where people were just grinding mob camps. Boooooring!
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While it certainly may be a solution to the botting problem, it's not the correct solution. You should not take away NPC grinding from the legitimate players just because someone may chose to bot, the solution is to go after the botters with a vengence.
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