Reminds me of the good old days of classic Runescape. Of course it would get boring but there would be other people around you killing mobs/chopping wood for hours too. And since the pace of gameplay was so slow it was really easy to just chill and chat or even do homework.
Not having read all 6 pages of discussion, I'll respond primarily to the OP:
I happen to share the opinion that not enough attention is given to mobs anymore in MMOs. The fact that, in this day and age, MMOs are still releasing with static mob spawns seems silly to me.
All the quest text and/or dialogue in the world isn't going to distract me from the fact that Superbad the Blackhand at the end of the dungeon is exactly the same dungeon boss every time he spawns. He will be killed the same way every time he spawns, he will present the same threats every time he spawns. Now, if Superbad the Blackhand (rogue extraordinaire with a cloak of reflection that reflected magical damage back at the caster) respawned as Badmage the Terrible (death mage who summoned minions and infected players with a disease of slow on touch), who then respawned as Ironjaw the Mad (who flies into a rage and randomly changes targets to cleave with his huge axe), so on and so forth, I'd be impressed and probably be up for not only running the same general dungeon more than once, but rolling alts and enjoying my time in those dungeons as well.
Not sure why, at the very least in dungeon and PvE content where attention to detail is expected, we still have static mobs and only "random" layouts at best.
So what's more than simply increasing experience gains, place the focus the enemy we face, and away form Joe Schmoe in town who is all "woe is me, I haven't the energy to deliver this letter to the next town! Will you be my champion and deliver it for me?!? It's a love letter to the Butcher's daughter. Kthxbai!"
An incredible hero with a bland, typical evil to vanquish and mundane tasks to accomplish does not, an interesting tale, make.
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard The main advantage for the developers to reduce mob XP and to give more quest XP is that it's an excellent weapon against bots. I don't see this stop anytime soon.
Except there are bots.
There are bots in WoW, inESO, apparently in Wildstar.
In Lineage 2, because of "xp" the bots would delevel so they could stay in one area and farm.
To that end, if its gold that is being farmed, it doesn't take long to level a character in most quest based games. Once at the top the bots can have a field day.
I don't see it as too much of a deterrent.
Of course you see nothing since you completely missed my point.
If mob XP was higher and quest XP lower to balance, bots would be much more efficient.
It's so easy to program a bot grinding mobs respawning at the same place over and over again it's not even funny. It's MUCH harder to create bots grinding quests, specially if the quests are more dynamic like they tend to be in all games nowadays.
I did not miss your point I completely understood your point which is why I included the highlighted part.
It doesn't take that long to level a character to high level in these modern games were they can grind gold to their auto-heart's content. Or just let them level slower they will still exist and still grind gold.
And if they are grinding mats taht drop in specific place then, xp is a hindrance to them, especially in games where there isn't much of a death penalty.
In ESO, where the the xp of mobs isn't that high you still find bots around specific areas that just grind gold and items.
So again, not really a good solution.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I'm surprised that there are so many replies agreeing with the OP. Do you all not realize that there are still mobs out in the wilds of the game that you can go grind for xp? I do that sometimes, if I don't want to quest, I go kill mobs. It's about choice. Choices all players have. Most games don't force you to quest, players do it because its easier. But again, that's their choice. They're given an option, and yet what do they do? Head to do the main thing they complain about in this thread.
"Wah, these WoW clones are just turning everything into easy mode for the entitled casuals. We want hard mode like original EQ" are complaints I commonly hear. And yet, these same individuals are usually the ones speeding through quests to avoid the grind...the same grind they turn around and complain about in other threads about other MMOs (usually Asian) that cater more to mob grinding.
No wonder modern devs can't seem to get their games right, they're in a no win situation. Don't blame the games, blame the players.
Name me one mmo out there where I can go and grind mobs and progress at the same rate as if I was questing. Anybody can grind of course but if its a slower way of leveling then nobody will do it. We need games that offers grinding as a real alternative to questing.
Name one place in my post where I said the leveling pace would be equal? I didn't. What I answered was the OP's "bring back mob xp". What I'm saying is that mob xp never left, so he can go and do that. Questing just makes things faster so most choose that route even though they do have other options. What he is asking for is the old style mob grinding in place before quests. But it's still there, and just as slow of a process as it was originally (correct me if I'm wrong). So what, are you saying now that you want the old style of leveling but in "fast easy mode edition" with "xp boost"? Or saying take xp from quests totally so only the niche who enjoyed mob grinding will enjoy it?
Oh, btw, In Tera you can grind BAMs to level fairly equally (I would actually say at times faster) than questing. So yes, there are games that offer that.
Where did I say you said it would be equal? You are telling a person to take a slower leveling process so how is that even a answer? Who said anything about fast easy mode or xp boost? Like I said in my op of course somebody can just go and kill mobs in any game but what the op is asking is for that he wants it to be a real form of progression like it use to be.
Also you are wrong in Tera. You cannot grind bams and level at the same pace as a person doing quest. Been there and tried it many times.
Not sure why, at the very least in dungeon and PvE content where attention to detail is expected, we still have static mobs and only "random" layouts at best.
Very simple .. just do random dungeons with random mobs like D3 and other ARPGs. Heck, 5-man dungeons in MMOs are essentially the same gameplay with worse combat, and less variety.
It is easy to fix. If it can be done in Diablo, it can be done in a MMO dungeon.
Fiforoth, eq1 was never about grinding mobs and camps as you describe. It has always been about forming a group and go out and hunt for treasure. If all you did in eq1 was solo farming goblins, well, then you avoided the whole game... So, I agree with the OP, and might add that fun in grinding mobs comes from social gameplay.
Originally posted by Clywd Fiforoth, eq1 was never about grinding mobs and camps as you describe. It has always been about forming a group and go out and hunt for treasure. If all you did in eq1 was solo farming goblins, well, then you avoided the whole game... So, I agree with the OP, and might add that fun in grinding mobs comes from social gameplay.
Social gameplay and a reason to group up in the first place,... the main reasons i avoid current gen MMOs. If i want solo content, i go play skyrim.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Mobs already give XP. To balance things out all they need to do is remove the XP reward from quests.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
This is one of the main reasons I've been entertaining a thought on methods of lacerating the linearity of mmo's into a large number of ways, all of which are partly intertwined with various levels of synergy, gating and storylines. These days you have combat and to a vastly lesser extent crafting with little synergy, and a story tied to combat only. And combat being 95% questing with the rest filled with instances. Did I forget something? There is the rare exception of player created content, but to my experience there is no story line and little to no synergy.
The problem is, without tieing it to the core game, solutions still become quite superficial. If you patch mob xp so that ppl can progress by grinding, they will bot. Even if you give players tools to deal with bots, they still won't do it that much unless you give them incentives to do so. And so on. Perhaps in the future some antibotting systems will be built directly into the OS... not that some people wouldn't probably find ways around that too. Certainly a lot fewer than these days tho.
Used to be a man could find himself an overpowered weapon and a field of rats, and just start goin to town.
Now you have to speak with the captain at the barricade to help fight back the invading orcs.
Who then tells you to seek out the commander at the outpost.
Who asks you to help deal with the encroaching undead population.
But don't forget to talk to the general in the guard tower about collecting a bag of undead-orc anuses first.
Whatever happened to the simplicity of bashing in rat skulls for hours at a time. I'd personally rather level through a test of rat bashing endurance than be some lacky for a quest spewing army of tedium.
Bring back the Pullers.
Bring back the dedicated CC'ers
Bring back Epic quest and get rid of the minor ones.
I get experience by swinging my club around, not kiss A$$ing NPC and being a errand boy.
its funny, cuz most of these games you are like a "chosen" one or hero, but your sent to do a lot of mundane task.
Used to be a man could find himself an overpowered weapon and a field of rats, and just start goin to town.
Now you have to speak with the captain at the barricade to help fight back the invading orcs.
Who then tells you to seek out the commander at the outpost.
Who asks you to help deal with the encroaching undead population.
But don't forget to talk to the general in the guard tower about collecting a bag of undead-orc anuses first.
Whatever happened to the simplicity of bashing in rat skulls for hours at a time. I'd personally rather level through a test of rat bashing endurance than be some lacky for a quest spewing army of tedium.
I agree and also disagree.
First of all, I think it's hilarious how you literally say, "I'd personally rather level through a test of rat bashing endurance" and "quest spewing army of tedium." in the same sentence. That is.... just wow. *clap*
I can agree that it sometimes becomes tedious, but MMOs are tedious whether it's bashing a rat or doing a quest. They're whole model inherently boils down to a time sink. To imply you don't want story, though, is just retarded.
I would prefer a "Purpose-built game". To suggest a game doesn't need a story to be successful is ridiculous (although iOS & cookie clicker & my kids may prove me wrong yet). Without story a game is empty. However, when I say "purpose-built" I mean don't tell a hero that you need them to save the flour in your cellar from the rats. "Damnit! If you haven't heard, there's a f#$%ing dragon terrorizing the city, but, yes, let me make sure your flour is ok. Oh and you should probably get inside too, since THERE'S A DRAGON IN TOWN!!!"
Do you want to sit and whack level 1 rats your entire experience? Sure!!! and when you level up, you actually gain negative experiece and become known as the village idiot because all you do is sit in old lady Cratchet's cellar and stab rats all day long. I'm sorry, but you don't become "epic" by smashing rats all day long. IMO, the argument is a cop-out. If you want to grind mobs, that's fine, but it should be to some end. Again, there must be some purpose. If all you do is whack rats 3 levels higher than you, then maybe you get +5 to rat killing. If you only fight higher-level mobs, maybe you get additional stat bonuses. If you're grouped with a lowbie, give me experience for helping them out. However, don't make me into some godly hero for smashing 1 billion level 1 rats. As I mentioned, in these cases, maybe negative effects could be gained because you'd undoubtedly have gone mad by then. So maybe you just randomly pull a "Leeroy Jenkins" and it's completely out of your own control. You're just spun. As I mentioned before, maybe you never progress or gain less stats, because you're not being challenged. Same as if you spent 15 years hitting a baseball off a tee. If someone immediately started throwing a 90mph fastball at you, you wouldn't be as effective as someone who has had progressively faster pitches thrown at them for the past 15 years, even if you did hit more balls.
So, I guess, sure, let people level how they want, but I think that there should also be consequences (some undesirable) as a result of your choices. Consequences and purpose. Please give me a reason to exist in the game world and reward or punish me for the choices I make in the game.
its funny, cuz most of these games you are like a "chosen" one or hero, but your sent to do a lot of mundane task.
May be most .. but certainly not games like Marvel Heroes where all you do (and yes, you are playing chosen heroes) is fight tons of minions, and big bad comic book villains.
Used to be a man could find himself an overpowered weapon and a field of rats, and just start goin to town.
Now you have to speak with the captain at the barricade to help fight back the invading orcs.
Who then tells you to seek out the commander at the outpost.
Who asks you to help deal with the encroaching undead population.
But don't forget to talk to the general in the guard tower about collecting a bag of undead-orc anuses first.
Whatever happened to the simplicity of bashing in rat skulls for hours at a time. I'd personally rather level through a test of rat bashing endurance than be some lacky for a quest spewing army of tedium.
Agreed. Finding a good camp for me has always been preferable to the tedium of quest hubs and quest grinds. Then again I started with EQ and DAoC, and those games made leveling fun rather than a chore.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
While I'm all for a relaxing, repetitive slaughterfest now and then, I think the solution is in the loot drop system that MMOs have been clinging to since dikuMUD/EQ. Changing the faucet for loot/gold would get rid of the gold farming bots, however, any return to mob grinding would just - in this day and age of far better automation and much more access to intuitive automation software - change the bots to a different subset of players that are botting. We've seen this already in previous MMOs. (ex Asheron's Call)
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Agree as well. Even though I enjoy quests, nothing beats an old fashion mob grinding evening for me. My guildies and I spent many hours in a game like LOTRO grinding deeds/traits for exp, loot, and getting that trait done. Good times and you could have a very social play session.
Asheron's Call was another favorite of mine. You never knew when you would get that perfect weapon that could be turned into a non-drop bandit weapon. Loved that game and spent many enjoyable evenings mob grinding in addition to just running around exploring.
Agree with the op. Hoping the Quest Hub dies a horrible death; and that any games that implement it as a primary mechanic flop. I got sick of being told what to do after one month of Vanguard. Is the internet so full of simpletons that they don't mind being told what to do for this many years ??? Quest hubs create a game where the primary social interaction is player to NPC, rather than player to player. Even if that interaction is hailing the NPC and clicking-through the quest without even reading it; which I'm sure most players do.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Folks mention bots, and I wonder if EQ launched today if bots would plauge the landscape. Not really sure. Take the Ghoul Lord for example. You won't get anywhere near it without a well coordinated effort of powerful (by 1999 standards) characters. One level 45 character couldn't bot the Lord. And even so, getting to level 45 took a long time. Sure, fifteen level 45 bots could kill the Lord. But only the first looter would get the loot. The other 14 just wasted a couple hours to get nothing.
Bots exist because of the gratuitous, everyone-gets-something mentality of current MMOs. I doubt they would be such a problem in the harsh world of 1999 EQ.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
One of the best times I had in gaming was sitting back drinking a beer while playing music on my Bard while everyone killed mobs in FF11 in Altepa Desert. Meanwhile we just chatted it up with friends and linkshellmates...Good times
Bots exist because of the gratuitous, everyone-gets-something mentality of current MMOs. I doubt they would be such a problem in the harsh world of 1999 EQ.
I was wondering why AC and Lineage 2 had them. That explains it, I guess.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Whatever happened to the simplicity of bashing in rat skulls for hours at a time.
if its a low quality F2P game then sure, make it happen. On the other hand, if im going to pay for a game then i expect high quality content, not what you just described, which was a horrendous experience when i did it years ago.
And no, generic quest grind is not quality content either and it also needs to be changed for something better, but the Dynasty Warriors' mindless nonstop killing idea was worse. IMO.
EDIT: i dont mind if they offer it as an option for those who prefer that way of leveling, as long as is not the main leveling path.
I have said for years that questing is what killed the social aspect in mmos. It made it so the best way of progression was for you to be alone going around doing quest with out the need of help from anybody.
Your so right. I never thought about it that way. Those hunting teams in AO were where my friends list grew. Those hunting teams really were the mmo social aspect and thats whats missing. Not what we have now with dungeons/raids where its all about getting some reward as the only reason to do it. Those outdoor AO mob hunting teams were all about exploring and fun as the reward.
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard The main advantage for the developers to reduce mob XP and to give more quest XP is that it's an excellent weapon against bots. I don't see this stop anytime soon.
Except there are bots.
There are bots in WoW, inESO, apparently in Wildstar.
In Lineage 2, because of "xp" the bots would delevel so they could stay in one area and farm.
To that end, if its gold that is being farmed, it doesn't take long to level a character in most quest based games. Once at the top the bots can have a field day.
I don't see it as too much of a deterrent.
If anything because of this there are more bots in the open world. Saying they redused xp because of bots doesn't wash at all. In all these games bots are everywhere and not just outside areas
I think they should at least make it a viable way to level again... As it is now in most games you will get virtually nothing for plain kills. It used to be the complete opposite, but not nearly as bad, with quests. You'd still get a decent chunk of exp but a lot of the times it wasn't worth it to go back and turn it in, you'd do it after you're done grinding or run out of potions or something.
Right now MMOs focus almost entirely on quests as a means to level and it's gotten really stale, tedious, and irritating. I don't want to be the errand boy for a bunch of NPCs for the hundredth time. I don't want to do menial tasks, and right now that's all quests are.
I would rather sit for hours killing enemies while talking to friends also doing the same than CONSTANTLY run back and forth between NPCs doing their shitty jobs.
I have said for years that questing is what killed the social aspect in mmos. It made it so the best way of progression was for you to be alone going around doing quest with out the need of help from anybody.
Your so right. I never thought about it that way. Those hunting teams in AO were where my friends list grew. Those hunting teams really were the mmo social aspect and thats whats missing. Not what we have now with dungeons/raids where its all about getting some reward as the only reason to do it. Those outdoor AO mob hunting teams were all about exploring and fun as the reward.
The problem isn't questing but the current design of tiered, non-repeatable quests. The minute your preferred group starts to deviate in level range, the quest system works against playing together. A lot of games have introduced 'mentor' or scaling systems to compensate for it, but those are just bandaids to the persistent problem.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
Not having read all 6 pages of discussion, I'll respond primarily to the OP:
I happen to share the opinion that not enough attention is given to mobs anymore in MMOs. The fact that, in this day and age, MMOs are still releasing with static mob spawns seems silly to me.
All the quest text and/or dialogue in the world isn't going to distract me from the fact that Superbad the Blackhand at the end of the dungeon is exactly the same dungeon boss every time he spawns. He will be killed the same way every time he spawns, he will present the same threats every time he spawns. Now, if Superbad the Blackhand (rogue extraordinaire with a cloak of reflection that reflected magical damage back at the caster) respawned as Badmage the Terrible (death mage who summoned minions and infected players with a disease of slow on touch), who then respawned as Ironjaw the Mad (who flies into a rage and randomly changes targets to cleave with his huge axe), so on and so forth, I'd be impressed and probably be up for not only running the same general dungeon more than once, but rolling alts and enjoying my time in those dungeons as well.
Not sure why, at the very least in dungeon and PvE content where attention to detail is expected, we still have static mobs and only "random" layouts at best.
So what's more than simply increasing experience gains, place the focus the enemy we face, and away form Joe Schmoe in town who is all "woe is me, I haven't the energy to deliver this letter to the next town! Will you be my champion and deliver it for me?!? It's a love letter to the Butcher's daughter. Kthxbai!"
An incredible hero with a bland, typical evil to vanquish and mundane tasks to accomplish does not, an interesting tale, make.
I did not miss your point I completely understood your point which is why I included the highlighted part.
It doesn't take that long to level a character to high level in these modern games were they can grind gold to their auto-heart's content. Or just let them level slower they will still exist and still grind gold.
And if they are grinding mats taht drop in specific place then, xp is a hindrance to them, especially in games where there isn't much of a death penalty.
In ESO, where the the xp of mobs isn't that high you still find bots around specific areas that just grind gold and items.
So again, not really a good solution.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Where did I say you said it would be equal? You are telling a person to take a slower leveling process so how is that even a answer? Who said anything about fast easy mode or xp boost? Like I said in my op of course somebody can just go and kill mobs in any game but what the op is asking is for that he wants it to be a real form of progression like it use to be.
Also you are wrong in Tera. You cannot grind bams and level at the same pace as a person doing quest. Been there and tried it many times.
Very simple .. just do random dungeons with random mobs like D3 and other ARPGs. Heck, 5-man dungeons in MMOs are essentially the same gameplay with worse combat, and less variety.
It is easy to fix. If it can be done in Diablo, it can be done in a MMO dungeon.
So, I agree with the OP, and might add that fun in grinding mobs comes from social gameplay.
Currently playing: EverQuest
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
Social gameplay and a reason to group up in the first place,... the main reasons i avoid current gen MMOs. If i want solo content, i go play skyrim.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Mobs already give XP. To balance things out all they need to do is remove the XP reward from quests.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
This is one of the main reasons I've been entertaining a thought on methods of lacerating the linearity of mmo's into a large number of ways, all of which are partly intertwined with various levels of synergy, gating and storylines. These days you have combat and to a vastly lesser extent crafting with little synergy, and a story tied to combat only. And combat being 95% questing with the rest filled with instances. Did I forget something? There is the rare exception of player created content, but to my experience there is no story line and little to no synergy.
The problem is, without tieing it to the core game, solutions still become quite superficial. If you patch mob xp so that ppl can progress by grinding, they will bot. Even if you give players tools to deal with bots, they still won't do it that much unless you give them incentives to do so. And so on. Perhaps in the future some antibotting systems will be built directly into the OS... not that some people wouldn't probably find ways around that too. Certainly a lot fewer than these days tho.
Bring back the Pullers.
Bring back the dedicated CC'ers
Bring back Epic quest and get rid of the minor ones.
I get experience by swinging my club around, not kiss A$$ing NPC and being a errand boy.
its funny, cuz most of these games you are like a "chosen" one or hero, but your sent to do a lot of mundane task.
I agree and also disagree.
First of all, I think it's hilarious how you literally say, "I'd personally rather level through a test of rat bashing endurance" and "quest spewing army of tedium." in the same sentence. That is.... just wow. *clap*
I can agree that it sometimes becomes tedious, but MMOs are tedious whether it's bashing a rat or doing a quest. They're whole model inherently boils down to a time sink. To imply you don't want story, though, is just retarded.
I would prefer a "Purpose-built game". To suggest a game doesn't need a story to be successful is ridiculous (although iOS & cookie clicker & my kids may prove me wrong yet). Without story a game is empty. However, when I say "purpose-built" I mean don't tell a hero that you need them to save the flour in your cellar from the rats. "Damnit! If you haven't heard, there's a f#$%ing dragon terrorizing the city, but, yes, let me make sure your flour is ok. Oh and you should probably get inside too, since THERE'S A DRAGON IN TOWN!!!"
Do you want to sit and whack level 1 rats your entire experience? Sure!!! and when you level up, you actually gain negative experiece and become known as the village idiot because all you do is sit in old lady Cratchet's cellar and stab rats all day long. I'm sorry, but you don't become "epic" by smashing rats all day long. IMO, the argument is a cop-out. If you want to grind mobs, that's fine, but it should be to some end. Again, there must be some purpose. If all you do is whack rats 3 levels higher than you, then maybe you get +5 to rat killing. If you only fight higher-level mobs, maybe you get additional stat bonuses. If you're grouped with a lowbie, give me experience for helping them out. However, don't make me into some godly hero for smashing 1 billion level 1 rats. As I mentioned, in these cases, maybe negative effects could be gained because you'd undoubtedly have gone mad by then. So maybe you just randomly pull a "Leeroy Jenkins" and it's completely out of your own control. You're just spun. As I mentioned before, maybe you never progress or gain less stats, because you're not being challenged. Same as if you spent 15 years hitting a baseball off a tee. If someone immediately started throwing a 90mph fastball at you, you wouldn't be as effective as someone who has had progressively faster pitches thrown at them for the past 15 years, even if you did hit more balls.
So, I guess, sure, let people level how they want, but I think that there should also be consequences (some undesirable) as a result of your choices. Consequences and purpose. Please give me a reason to exist in the game world and reward or punish me for the choices I make in the game.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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About "quests hubs help anti bots" ,
even in nowadays quest hubs MMORPGs , people still bot .
If they too lazy and don't want to do quests , they bots .
The little among of exp come from mobs just make player take more time to camp bots , it don't stop the bots.
Unless you cut off all exp come from monster ,
but hey , even mobs don't give exp ... people still bots .
So i don't think bots are problem here ,
if quests hubs is "excellent weapon" again bots then the bots ready disappeared or become very small ,
but sadly ,they don't .
Kaiser post about the matter of class and the hard to get the balance but it largely depend on the classes design so it hard to say right.
May be most .. but certainly not games like Marvel Heroes where all you do (and yes, you are playing chosen heroes) is fight tons of minions, and big bad comic book villains.
I wouldn't call any of it mundane.
May be other MMOs should learn from that.
Agreed. Finding a good camp for me has always been preferable to the tedium of quest hubs and quest grinds. Then again I started with EQ and DAoC, and those games made leveling fun rather than a chore.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Agree as well. Even though I enjoy quests, nothing beats an old fashion mob grinding evening for me. My guildies and I spent many hours in a game like LOTRO grinding deeds/traits for exp, loot, and getting that trait done. Good times and you could have a very social play session.
Asheron's Call was another favorite of mine. You never knew when you would get that perfect weapon that could be turned into a non-drop bandit weapon. Loved that game and spent many enjoyable evenings mob grinding in addition to just running around exploring.
Agree with the op. Hoping the Quest Hub dies a horrible death; and that any games that implement it as a primary mechanic flop. I got sick of being told what to do after one month of Vanguard. Is the internet so full of simpletons that they don't mind being told what to do for this many years ??? Quest hubs create a game where the primary social interaction is player to NPC, rather than player to player. Even if that interaction is hailing the NPC and clicking-through the quest without even reading it; which I'm sure most players do.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Folks mention bots, and I wonder if EQ launched today if bots would plauge the landscape. Not really sure. Take the Ghoul Lord for example. You won't get anywhere near it without a well coordinated effort of powerful (by 1999 standards) characters. One level 45 character couldn't bot the Lord. And even so, getting to level 45 took a long time. Sure, fifteen level 45 bots could kill the Lord. But only the first looter would get the loot. The other 14 just wasted a couple hours to get nothing.
Bots exist because of the gratuitous, everyone-gets-something mentality of current MMOs. I doubt they would be such a problem in the harsh world of 1999 EQ.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I was wondering why AC and Lineage 2 had them. That explains it, I guess.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
if its a low quality F2P game then sure, make it happen.
On the other hand, if im going to pay for a game then i expect high quality content, not what you just described, which was a horrendous experience when i did it years ago.
And no, generic quest grind is not quality content either and it also needs to be changed for something better, but the Dynasty Warriors' mindless nonstop killing idea was worse. IMO.
EDIT: i dont mind if they offer it as an option for those who prefer that way of leveling, as long as is not the main leveling path.
Your so right. I never thought about it that way. Those hunting teams in AO were where my friends list grew. Those hunting teams really were the mmo social aspect and thats whats missing. Not what we have now with dungeons/raids where its all about getting some reward as the only reason to do it. Those outdoor AO mob hunting teams were all about exploring and fun as the reward.
If anything because of this there are more bots in the open world. Saying they redused xp because of bots doesn't wash at all. In all these games bots are everywhere and not just outside areas
I think they should at least make it a viable way to level again... As it is now in most games you will get virtually nothing for plain kills. It used to be the complete opposite, but not nearly as bad, with quests. You'd still get a decent chunk of exp but a lot of the times it wasn't worth it to go back and turn it in, you'd do it after you're done grinding or run out of potions or something.
Right now MMOs focus almost entirely on quests as a means to level and it's gotten really stale, tedious, and irritating. I don't want to be the errand boy for a bunch of NPCs for the hundredth time. I don't want to do menial tasks, and right now that's all quests are.
I would rather sit for hours killing enemies while talking to friends also doing the same than CONSTANTLY run back and forth between NPCs doing their shitty jobs.
The problem isn't questing but the current design of tiered, non-repeatable quests. The minute your preferred group starts to deviate in level range, the quest system works against playing together. A lot of games have introduced 'mentor' or scaling systems to compensate for it, but those are just bandaids to the persistent problem.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre