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Another F-up By Trion / Archage

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  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    Originally posted by Volgore
    Originally posted by lugal
    People really need to learn that Trion is not the dev for this game.

    Pre-release:

    -"Trion is the best publisher XL could have found for AA"

    -"AA will be different in the west, Trion won't mess it up"

    -"Trion's ArcheAge"

    -"Trion will make their own decision according to what's best for AA on the western market"

    -"Trion has total control, it will literally be a different game over here"

     

    Post-release:

    "People have to learn that it's not Trion's game and that there is little they can do".

     

     

    Pretty much this lol.

    I remember all the same claims made by fans prior to launch. How it wouldn't end up like the horrible Eastern versions, because Trion better understands its Western market and knows what they need to do to make it work. That Trion would have plenty of leverage and control over the game, and would tailor it specifically to its market, and it would be awesome because of that. Just look how well they did with Rift! 

    When things don't quite work out that way, you see the immediate 180 degree flip to "Well, it's not Trion's problem.. XLGames controls all that. Stop blaming Trion".

    Basically:

    Things going well? All credit to Trion! They did it all!

    Things going poorly? All blame to XLGames! Trion had no control in the matter!

    So predictable. So dishonest.

  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 3,069
    This is why instancing was created, to avoid clusterfux like this.
  • alyndalealyndale Member UncommonPosts: 936

    Yes Pratt well said...

    What folks need to do is look forward. Kickstarter is an interesting place to look.Mark Jacobs has put together, from what I'm studying an mmo that I think folks with pvp in mind will love. The mmo seems to be close to being completed or at least nearer the beta state with each passing month.

    For my money and based on this forum and their warm attitude towards Mark and his game, Camelot Unchained, I think we all have something positive to look forward to.

    Anyway, keep the faith all is not lost...

    Alyn

    All I want is the truth
    Just gimme some truth
    John Lennon

  • zaberfangxzaberfangx Member UncommonPosts: 1,796
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    It seems we are witnessing the effects of a "perfect storm" created by the fact that both the developer (XLGames) and publisher (Trion) of AA are trying to spend as little money as possible in the process of bringing the game to the NA/EU market.

     

    Trion have the bare minimum management and CS staff in place (every thing else is "out of their control") and XLGames are completely focused on their Korean players while tossing chunks of code over the fence to Trion from time to time.

     

    Just "publishing" the game can't cost much, right ?

     

    It's a strange thought, but it almost looks like Trion didn't really understand what they were in for with AA. I suspect the intention was that it would provide a nice additional cash income "on the side" to keep them going until they could produce a new game to boost their coffers. 

    Each game Trion produce came out with tons of trouble they should stick and push more funds in to rift and updated there engine more, as rift pretty much doing well for them even if people love or hate rift still going well even I know some not going agree.

     

    But yeah when I first heard about AA coming to the western, and trion going be hosting for them, knowing how many games over sea do well in the western. Like you said trion didn't really understand what they were in for.

     

    But I do agree with other on the forums that trion became to greedy this pass year, as there trying make so much money to make there new Glyph to support many games, look at rift it made 36 mil last year, and rift is not going see much of the 36 mil to fund the game, as go's to other projects. But I do blame more upper management for this trion and xlgames rushing things and trying make more money.

  • jbriskeyjbriskey Member UncommonPosts: 43
    Sad thing is a I really like rift and its starting to feel like this train wreck of a game is going to start to negatively effect that game and its ability to get and retain new players...
  • alyndalealyndale Member UncommonPosts: 936
    Originally posted by zaberfangx
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    It seems we are witnessing the effects of a "perfect storm" created by the fact that both the developer (XLGames) and publisher (Trion) of AA are trying to spend as little money as possible in the process of bringing the game to the NA/EU market.

     

    Trion have the bare minimum management and CS staff in place (every thing else is "out of their control") and XLGames are completely focused on their Korean players while tossing chunks of code over the fence to Trion from time to time.

     

    Just "publishing" the game can't cost much, right ?

     

    It's a strange thought, but it almost looks like Trion didn't really understand what they were in for with AA. I suspect the intention was that it would provide a nice additional cash income "on the side" to keep them going until they could produce a new game to boost their coffers. 

    Each game Trion produce came out with tons of trouble they should stick and push more funds in to rift and updated there engine more, as rift pretty much doing well for them even if people love or hate rift still going well even I know some not going agree.

     

    But yeah when I first heard about AA coming to the western, and trion going be hosting for them, knowing how many games over sea do well in the western. Like you said trion didn't really understand what they were in for.

     

    But I do agree with other on the forums that trion became to greedy this pass year, as there trying make so much money to make there new Glyph to support many games, look at rift it made 36 mil last year, and rift is not going see much of the 36 mil to fund the game, as go's to other projects. But I do blame more upper management for this trion and xlgames rushing things and trying make more money.

    Agreed Zaberfangx, agreed

    However, could we not say that just about every major game making company out there now has pressures to ensure their "bottom line" is in the black? The sad fact seems to point this out so many times with our beloved genre.

    I do not believe mmo's are dead, but I do believe as we sit back and watch yet another good mmo conceptual model, as we see in Archeage, get completely over looked and wasted by the parent company, XLGames

    Greed...we see it in real life folks...and we could start another thread on this and it would be pages deep. It drives our econmies and our politics. Is it any different with our entertainment?

    Alyn

    All I want is the truth
    Just gimme some truth
    John Lennon

  • AthisarAthisar Member UncommonPosts: 666
    Originally posted by jbriskey
    Sad thing is a I really like rift and its starting to feel like this train wreck of a game is going to start to negatively effect that game and its ability to get and retain new players...

    Unfortunately Rift is going in the same cash grab direction - RNG boxes everywhere, etc. They've done the same with Defiance. I won't be spending any more money on this company, and I used to love Rift.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    Originally posted by Volgore
    Originally posted by lugal
    People really need to learn that Trion is not the dev for this game.

    Pre-release:

    -"Trion is the best publisher XL could have found for AA"

    -"AA will be different in the west, Trion won't mess it up"

    -"Trion's ArcheAge"

    -"Trion will make their own decision according to what's best for AA on the western market"

    -"Trion has total control, it will literally be a different game over here"

     

    Post-release:

    "People have to learn that it's not Trion's game and that there is little they can do".

     

     

    You forgot an important one:

    "Trion's Rift has the best monetization model in the industry, they know how to do good F2P, so their  model for AA is bound to be excellent too !"

    This statement was the foundation for the whole pre-release argument that AA wasn't going to be P2W.

  • MensurMensur Member EpicPosts: 1,531

    They should pull the plug on this game...use 12-24 months on actually finishing the porting of it..fixing the bugs. hack issues etc..and then release..

    2 cent

    mmorpg junkie since 1999



  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857

    Everyone is so quick to defend Trion saying these are XL Game's issues and Trion has no control. And while that may be true, it was Trion who asserted themselves and put themselves out there for this game in this way.

    We don't see these publisher/developer relationship disconnects in other games. EA has one of the worst reputations in the gaming industry, They publish TSW. But good bad or indifferent, everything right and everything wrong with TSW is on FC. Nobody brings EA into it.

    Trion opened this door for heavy criticism by making stupid claims from the beginning. They should have published the game and kept their mouth shut about things they have no control over and let XL do the talking.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Everyone is so quick to defend Trion saying these are XL Game's issues and Trion has no control. And while that may be true, it was Trion who asserted themselves and put themselves out there for this game in this way.

    We don't see these publisher/developer relationship disconnects in other games. EA has one of the worst reputations in the gaming industry, They publish TSW. But good bad or indifferent, everything right and everything wrong with TSW is on FC. Nobody brings EA into it.

    Trion opened this door for heavy criticism by making stupid claims from the beginning. They should have published the game and kept their mouth shut about things they have no control over and let XL do the talking.

    Easy enough to sidestep this Trion/XL red herring.... "Another F-up by Archeage"...

     

    Does it really matter where the finger points when the issue here is that the majority of the player base either couldn't connect at all or got disconnected at a critical point in the Auroria land claiming process and couldn't log in for 16 hours?

     

    It was definitely another large clusterf***

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,689
    Originally posted by alyndale
    Originally posted by zaberfangx
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    It seems we are witnessing the effects of a "perfect storm" created by the fact that both the developer (XLGames) and publisher (Trion) of AA are trying to spend as little money as possible in the process of bringing the game to the NA/EU market.

     

    Trion have the bare minimum management and CS staff in place (every thing else is "out of their control") and XLGames are completely focused on their Korean players while tossing chunks of code over the fence to Trion from time to time.

     

    Just "publishing" the game can't cost much, right ?

     

    It's a strange thought, but it almost looks like Trion didn't really understand what they were in for with AA. I suspect the intention was that it would provide a nice additional cash income "on the side" to keep them going until they could produce a new game to boost their coffers. 

    Each game Trion produce came out with tons of trouble they should stick and push more funds in to rift and updated there engine more, as rift pretty much doing well for them even if people love or hate rift still going well even I know some not going agree.

     

    But yeah when I first heard about AA coming to the western, and trion going be hosting for them, knowing how many games over sea do well in the western. Like you said trion didn't really understand what they were in for.

     

    But I do agree with other on the forums that trion became to greedy this pass year, as there trying make so much money to make there new Glyph to support many games, look at rift it made 36 mil last year, and rift is not going see much of the 36 mil to fund the game, as go's to other projects. But I do blame more upper management for this trion and xlgames rushing things and trying make more money.

    Agreed Zaberfangx, agreed

    However, could we not say that just about every major game making company out there now has pressures to ensure their "bottom line" is in the black? The sad fact seems to point this out so many times with our beloved genre.

    I do not believe mmo's are dead, but I do believe as we sit back and watch yet another good mmo conceptual model, as we see in Archeage, get completely over looked and wasted by the parent company, XLGames

    Greed...we see it in real life folks...and we could start another thread on this and it would be pages deep. It drives our econmies and our politics. Is it any different with our entertainment?

    Alyn

    I remember how Atlantica Online started out with a nice mostly non-intrusive cash shop, and then after only a couple months the RNG boxes and worse came along (and it somehow got worse over time, with upgrade items that were previously obtainable in-game being REMOVED and added to the cash shop instead, etc)

     

    Ever since then, I've felt an increasing emphasis on the cash shop is the sad fate of almost any F2P MMORPG.   ....and, to be honest, the sad fate of most P2P MMORPGs too.  I suppose that's business for ya.  Well, at least Path of Exile and to a lesser extent Marvel Heroes haven't gone down that route (MH has random boxes but they also have built in guarantees to make sure you get the item eventually after opening enough, at least, and they started out tand stayed hat way anyways rather than the "continue to slide down the slope" trend that other MMOs seem to have)

  • AthisarAthisar Member UncommonPosts: 666
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Everyone is so quick to defend Trion saying these are XL Game's issues and Trion has no control. And while that may be true, it was Trion who asserted themselves and put themselves out there for this game in this way.

    We don't see these publisher/developer relationship disconnects in other games. EA has one of the worst reputations in the gaming industry, They publish TSW. But good bad or indifferent, everything right and everything wrong with TSW is on FC. Nobody brings EA into it.

    Trion opened this door for heavy criticism by making stupid claims from the beginning. They should have published the game and kept their mouth shut about things they have no control over and let XL do the talking.

    In a way, yes. Trion sold and promoted the game alone, XL had nothing to do with it. And Trion sold thousands of founder's packs on the basis that people thought they'd behave ethically based on the past with Rift.

    At the same time many, many of the issues are Trion's alone.

  • caveogre72caveogre72 Member UncommonPosts: 30

    I really don't care who is to blame, point is, someone is making very bad decisions with this game.  End result, cancelled my sub.

    The game is decent at best, in my opinion and not worth the hassles.

     

    Good luck to those who stay.

  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member EpicPosts: 3,584
    Originally posted by lugal
    Originally posted by Viper482
    Originally posted by lugal
    Originally posted by Viper482
    Originally posted by lugal
    People really need to learn that Trion is not the dev for this game.

    And people like you need to learn they ARE managing it. These decisions are their own. People begged for them to stall the Auroria release because hacks had not been put under control. They did not create the game and have some limitations to what they can change, the rest is ALL them.

    Stop apologizing for them, seriously.

    Please explain how a company that has no control of the game dev has control on what is being released and how to stop hacking?

    You have zero clue what you are talking about. XL Games did not force Trion to release Auroria this soon. Halsa weapons were not even supposed to be in the game this soon, they were designed by XL to be released after about a year. The Asian/Russian releases are not near as cash shop oriented either, thank you TRION.

    You don't know what you are talking about so just stop.

    You still did not explain how a company(Trion) that does not have dev control of a game, that belongs to XL games, are able to do any of what you are blaming them for? Xl games created the game, the code and interfaces. I'm sure Trion wanted certain features implemented, but it is not them making the code.

    I think it is you who who does not know what they talking about. You just have blind hate.

     

     

    well since you are asking, trion should have done;

    test the patch before launch,

    bring servers down when the problem happen;

    support, bringing a half asset "fix"(restart the pc) and nothing more after 10 hours of people complaining about the problem;

    hacks still around, lands getting grabed without the playes being on;

    refuse to do a rollback to before the patch (bet they don't even ahve a backup for it anyway)

     

    course I can even guess some if not most of players who could be on modify teh .EXE of the game in some way so it didn't launch the gameguard, since the problem was the gameguard (and do not let me start to talk about how useless game guard is)

     

    that my friend is all operational problems not patch problems with always happen we are well aware, also another complains are all on trion

     

    "normalization" on gliders aka no reason to craft gliders anymore, with also goes along with the mount normalization, no reason to try the fastest mount (and lets not talk about the balance issues with mounts skills here),

    we using the skill tree of the lvl 55 and still caped on lvl 50,

    hasla weapons who pretty much make weapon crafter a guild thing only with in the end only top guildies or alliances will ahve a good weaponsmith making weapons for the whole guild because its right now a chore, with also means the weapons crafted will cost even more it should,

    with its also brings low drops on archeum a component used to crafting with make the whole crafting process cost even more it should, the trion "fix" for it? lets sell a rng box who can drop it in the cash shop

    farm cart being need  to amke farm wagon now who was said before it would be a diferent recipe altogether and wouldn't need the cart(since the cart was trion idea since they was holding back auroria)

    also arche age don't ahve this complain on russian and korean servers, and from what I saw not the japanese (so or I learn japanese or russian or korean to play, i'm willing to do that btw.....)

     

    have more complains on trion hands but guess its enough for now

    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • VikingGamerVikingGamer Member UncommonPosts: 1,350
    Originally posted by jitter77

     

    So by the time they roll the fix out its pretty much guaranteed all land will be gone.  

    All the land was gone the instant a castle was claimed in a zone. I of course couldn't log in but I was in mumble with guildmates as the last castle was being claimed on Naima. We had people right there ready to go already clicking as the territory was claimed and we still got nothing. So yes, literally everything was claimed instantly. There is not future tense here. The land is already gone.

    I am having a difficult time finding a positive spin in this.

    All die, so die well.

  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619

    The thing that really burns me about this whole thing is Trions silence.  They know many guilds didnt get a castle due to the login issues and yet all we get is silence.  They know lots of paying customers wanted land and this was their last real chance to get it but they were not able to log in but all we get is silence. 

     

    Its like Mr. Hartman has told the team to ignore everything and it will all blow over in a couple of days.  I have land and my guild could care less about getting a castle so most of this didnt affect me but I honestly feel for all the people who just got bent-over and then ignored by Trion

    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • PepeqPepeq Member UncommonPosts: 1,977

    LOL, everyone knew the land grab was going to be instantaneous.  Really, why would this patch be different than release?  

     

    And to be quite honest... there was never going to be enough land in the game for everyone to begin with.  This is still the same complaint, just a different day.  

     

    Now, you have the full game.  All the land is gone.  No new land will be coming.  

     

    Discuss.

  • TimzillaTimzilla Member UncommonPosts: 437
    The thing is, once you get some land you're compelled to keep playing and hope things get better. If you cancel, then you lose your property. Should things improve you're hosed if you want to come back. That's why some of us keep paying for this crap.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Originally posted by Talonsin

    The thing that really burns me about this whole thing is Trions silence.  They know many guilds didnt get a castle due to the login issues and yet all we get is silence.  They know lots of paying customers wanted land and this was their last real chance to get it but they were not able to log in but all we get is silence. 

     

    Its like Mr. Hartman has told the team to ignore everything and it will all blow over in a couple of days.  I have land and my guild could care less about getting a castle so most of this didnt affect me but I honestly feel for all the people who just got bent-over and then ignored by Trion

    It wasn't just about getting a castle. That was a relatively minor problem. It was about not getting a plot of land in order to be able to grow Archeum trees that can only be grown there and are a requirement for many higher level crafting recipes. Only a small portion of the land is under the castles control.

     

    This was a problem on the same scale as the technical issues that plagued head-start when everyone was trying to claim land. Except at least in that case almost everyone was affected by the disconnects and multi-hour queues to get back in after a disconnect semi-equally (the disconnect "no queue" grace period wasn't in place for more than a week.) It was shitty but no one had an unfair advantage over anyone else who was trying to play at that time.

     

    In yesterday's screw-up, those who got in at first and didn't get disconnected could stay logged-in for hours and had a good chance too claim a plot of land. But anyone who didn't get in at first or did and got disconnected could not get back in for 16 hours - and this was the majority of the player base. And to top it off, this was clearly a coding issue on their part since it took two separate XL/Hackshield patches to get it working again. The problem wasn't intermitent nor random - something in the code broke allowing you to get to the character select screen but disconnecting you immediately before you could even select a character. 

     

    In the head-start case the DCs could be attributed to external factors such as DDOS attacks (that did indeed happen) or just the hardware's inability to deal with the volume - some blame can go to them for not having foreseen the problem and especially for not launching with a disconnect grace period. But in the Auroria case it was nothing but their faulty code that caused the problems and not everyone was affected equally. In my mind this is very big difference that is totally on them. 

     

     

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Member RarePosts: 1,689

    According to the forums, some players instantly had 10+ plots (those witnesses counted the number of houses that belonged to the same player.  And also chat instantly filled with some guys saying "Selling 10 16x16 plots!" or something like that.

     

    While some people apparently did legitimately get land without hacking (allegedly), there is definately some shenanigans going on.

     

    .....honestly, how they could in good conscience releaes this without fixing those hacks is... well, not beyond me, actually.  They clearly don't care.

     

    But really, you'd think they'd at least have implemented some account-wide limits on the number of plots you can own.  It's not like taxes are any deterrent at all since they just sell the plots befor etax time comes up apparently (or other more exploitive shenanigans if need be)

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Originally posted by TiamatRoar

    According to the forums, some players instantly had 10+ plots (those witnesses counted the number of houses that belonged to the same player.  And also chat instantly filled with some guys saying "Selling 10 16x16 plots!" or something like that.

     

    While some people apparently did legitimately get land without hacking (allegedly), there is definately some shenanigans going on.

     

    .....honestly, how they could in good conscience releaes this without fixing those hacks is... well, not beyond me, actually.  They clearly don't care.

     

    But really, you'd think they'd at least have implemented some account-wide limits on the number of plots you can own.  It's not like taxes are any deterrent at all since they just sell the plots befor etax time comes up apparently (or other more exploitive shenanigans if need be)

    Just today a guy named "Chanboy" selling his land hack, who claims it still very much works, posted a video on youtube promoting his hack. I can't link it here because it's against this site's rules, but you can find it easily enough just by googling jis name and "land hack."

     

    So yeah, of course there are still hacks and there will always be hacks... as soon as they detect and get rid of old ones, new ones are programmed to replace them.

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 7,098
    Originally posted by TiamatRoar

    According to the forums, some players instantly had 10+ plots (those witnesses counted the number of houses that belonged to the same player.  And also chat instantly filled with some guys saying "Selling 10 16x16 plots!" or something like that.

     

    While some people apparently did legitimately get land without hacking (allegedly), there is definately some shenanigans going on.

     

    .....honestly, how they could in good conscience releaes this without fixing those hacks is... well, not beyond me, actually.  They clearly don't care.

     

    But really, you'd think they'd at least have implemented some account-wide limits on the number of plots you can own.  It's not like taxes are any deterrent at all since they just sell the plots befor etax time comes up apparently (or other more exploitive shenanigans if need be)

    And you don't think these RMT guys have a jitload of accounts and can easily bypass such limitation?

    Is it any different to bot with a single account to claim 10 plots or bot with 10 accounts and claim 1 plot per said account?

    The end result will be the same.

    This is what you get with Free 2 Play!  There are practically no financial risks and concequences for these guys. That 5 buck patron per account is nothing for what they earn through RMT sales.

    At least with P2P games you have to buy a 50 bucks game and then pay 15 bucks a month!  Per account!

    The financial risk and concequences in a P2P game are far greater.

    Sure a lot of them are using hacked accounts and stolen credit cards. But with concequent banning they will run out and give up quickly enough.

    In a F2P game they can just keep on creating new accounts. It's an endless battle the devs can never win.

    And the fact that XL games uses a craptastic tool like Hackshield says enough! They are lazy and don't give a damn.

     

  • ThestrainThestrain Member CommonPosts: 390
    Yes there will always be hacks and cheating but AA is a special case. I have never seen such rampant hacking in a any modern game.
  • AthisarAthisar Member UncommonPosts: 666
    I really didn't expect anything else after head start. People paid £115/$150 to sit in a queue all weekend, not get land (or get crappy land), and then on launch day Trion goes and opens up brand new servers for everyone else. A day into head start when it was clear that only the lucky ones/large guilds were getting land (and nothing to do with skill), Trion ignored it all and carried on as normal boasting about how popular it was.
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