Originally posted by palulalulagreedy gaming company on mmo market.
you just don´t get it,
this game has
NO investors
NO shareholders looking out for profit
and NO publisher
do you understand that gamers pledge TO GET THE GAME MADE?
no, you don´t grasp that concept, right?
nope, impossible.
The only thing you DO understand is an EA logo, a 60$ box price with a tacked on cash shop, season passes and overpriced "DLC". /facepalm
This game also has no one to keep them in check. Investors and shareholders, can be a detriment to a company but at the same time they help keep the company focused because they do want a return on their investment at some point in time. With none of the above they can basically keep delaying the game as long as they want while they push out ships to sell in the store saying that they need just this extra capital to make the game really shine. Are they going to do this? I have no idea but I am just putting that out there.
I also find it rather funny that you make fun of someone for
"60 dollars for a game with a tacked on cash shop, season passes and overpriced DLC"
when star citizen currently has a cash shop for a game that isn't even released yet and ships can go for hundreds or thousands of dollars. I will see your /facepalm and raise you a /doublefacepalm
do you understand that gamers pledge TO GET THE GAME MADE?
No.
If that was peoples only reason to pledge, there would be no other bonus than getting the game made.
Seriously.
The whole "pledge with bonus items" is just a badly disguised whaling trick. It is kind of a reverse microtransaction thing: Macrotransactions. But the angle is the same: Get the whales to caugh up money.
This game also has no one to keep them in check. Investors and shareholders, can be a detriment to a company but at the same time they help keep the company focused because they do want a return on their investment at some point in time. With none of the above they can basically keep delaying the game as long as they want while they push out ships to sell in the store saying that they need just this extra capital to make the game really shine. Are they going to do this? I have no idea but I am just putting that out there.
I also find it rather funny that you make fun of someone for
"60 dollars for a game with a tacked on cash shop, season passes and overpriced DLC"
when star citizen currently has a cash shop for a game that isn't even released yet and ships can go for hundreds or thousands of dollars. I will see your /facepalm and raise you a /doublefacepalm
This is especially true for Roberts who has a history of getting carried away with what is desirable and what is actually achievable.
This game also has no one to keep them in check. Investors and shareholders, can be a detriment to a company but at the same time they help keep the company focused because they do want a return on their investment at some point in time. With none of the above they can basically keep delaying the game as long as they want while they push out ships to sell in the store saying that they need just this extra capital to make the game really shine. Are they going to do this? I have no idea but I am just putting that out there.
I also find it rather funny that you make fun of someone for
"60 dollars for a game with a tacked on cash shop, season passes and overpriced DLC"
when star citizen currently has a cash shop for a game that isn't even released yet and ships can go for hundreds or thousands of dollars. I will see your /facepalm and raise you a /doublefacepalm
This is especially true for Roberts who has a history of getting carried away with what is desirable and what is actually achievable.
@ rpmcmurphy
You STILL DON'T understand. We WANT him to get carried away. We WANT HIM to challenge what people deem achievable. We WANT HIM to SURPASS what is considered "achievable". And WE, the backers, give him both the time and the money to do it. Something a standard industry publishing system won't do.
>>>This game also has no one to keep them in check. >>> you could not be more wrong. This game has 683.984 "investors" checking on the progress of the game. And these "investors" are asking for VERY detailed constant progress reports - and getting them from CIG.
This is especially true for Roberts who has a history of getting carried away with what is desirable and what is actually achievable.
@ rpmcmurphy
You STILL DON'T understand. We WANT him to get carried away. We WANT HIM to challenge what people deem achievable. We WANT HIM to SURPASS what is considered "achievable". And WE, the backers, give him both the time and the money to do it. Something a standard industry publishing system won't do.
>>>This game also has no one to keep them in check. >>> you could not be more wrong. This game has 683.984 "investors" checking on the progress of the game. And these "investors" are asking for VERY detailed constant progress reports - and getting them from CIG.
Have fun
I think you're presuming to speak for an awful lot of people here, I dare say many people would be quite happy with a modern WC or FL.
Besides, given his history I think that's a pretty foolish comment.
All online PVP games are pay to win. Starting with players having better hardware and internet connection than other people. It gives them an advantage, even more so in MMO PVP. Somebody with higher specs and fiber optic connection will have the edge over those with lower spec and an average internet connection in real time combat pvp. This game will really favor those with crazy specs and fiber optic connections over those who don't.
I think you're presuming to speak for an awful lot of people here, I dare say many people would be quite happy with a modern WC or FL.
Besides, given his history I think that's a pretty foolish comment.
Consider it foolish, if you must.
It is nonetheless the way of thinking of 95+ % of the people on the Star Citzen forums (based on personally watching the RSI/CIG forums for the last 2 years). You can easily find that out yourself by visiting the forums. Or by making a poll there - let the backers give you their answer themselves !
And they DO get a modern WC too. Its called Squadron 42 and its a solo game.
But they get much more then that. In Squadron 42 you earn your citzenship through military service. Then the REAL adventure starts as you are then free to choose your own path in the Persistent Universe.
First - no one forces you to buy bigger ships for more (real world) money. You can get them all in game once the game has launched. You knew that already, but that is the core of the answer. The other core answer is that any advantages at game launch with evaporate quickly after a few weeks. Yes, a guy may have 20 ships a game start ... but he can fly only one. And yes, it may be a good ship, but this is a joystick-twitch-space-sim ... if he sucks as a pilot, not even the best ship and the best equipment will save him. Yes,he may have Lifetime Insurrance .. but as insurance will be a minor cost, this is only a minor advantage. This is not EVE Online - you cannot have a new ship every 10 minutes because the "Death of a Space Man" permadeath mechanic is a showstopper here.
This topic has been discussed ad nauseum for the last two years, so have fun hearing ALL the pros and cons, all arguments you could think of in 334 pages of posts:
Yes - i could go into more detail and pick some of the reasons from this mega-thread and explain it to you. But from experience its wasted time- done that often enough . Read the arguments and decide for yourself.
Have fun
I don't know how people can take words of devs as gospel when past has taught us that devs always do U TURN on what they say. Nothing is set in stone and i won't be surprised if they start selling ships for real money after release.
I think you're presuming to speak for an awful lot of people here, I dare say many people would be quite happy with a modern WC or FL.
Besides, given his history I think that's a pretty foolish comment.
Consider it foolish, if you must.
It is nonetheless the way of thinking of 95+ % of the people on the Star Citzen forums (based on personally watching the RSI/CIG forums for the last 2 years). You can easily find that out yourself by visiting the forums. Or by making a poll there - let the backers give you their answer themselves !
And they DO get a modern WC too. Its called Squadron 42 and its a solo game.
But they get much more then that. In Squadron 42 you earn your citzenship through military service. Then the REAL adventure starts as you are then free to choose your own path in the Persistent Universe.
Have fun
Oh come on, is that supposed to be some sort of quantifiable metric? Akin to saying "Preacher claims God is real, all you have to do is read the Bible."
I read the forums and can see for myself how anyone with a sceptical lean is treated, how hype over upcoming ship sales are prevalent, how they are simply an echo chamber for people heavily invested in the game (financially and mentally). It's hardly a place to get a decent measure of general opinion.
I don't know how people can take words of devs as gospel when past has taught us that devs always do U TURN on what they say. Nothing is set in stone and i won't be surprised if they start selling ships for real money after release.
I do not take the words of developers as gospel. However, i do not consider them liars by definition either. Time will tell.
I agree that nothing is set in stone. Things can and do change. I even believe that the aspect of "selling ships for real money" is awefully overrated and its influence greatly exaggerated. In principle you can do that in EVE Online for years. But after 10 years in EVE Online i do not see it having any measurable influence on the state of the game. Even IF someone buys himself a Titan .... who cares ? With several hundred other Titans in the game .... *** shrug *** ... so what ?
Saying SC in it's current form is not P2W and its only pledge to support the game, is the same as saying political sponsors are only doing it for the love of their country. Yeah, right.
I am surprised that it still is a topic of discussion.
Same for Everquest Next.
Instead of continuesly pointlessly discussing if or how much p2w it is, simply ackowegedle the fact that most game companies doing MMORPGs and MMO-like games WANT to sell in-game advantages to players for $.
Then if you don't want to take part in that kind of game enviroment, don't play such games. Sadly it is the only option atm.
Oh come on, is that supposed to be some sort of quantifiable metric? Akin to saying "Preacher claims God is real, all you have to do is read the Bible."
I read the forums and can see for myself how anyone with a sceptical lean is treated, how hype over upcoming ship sales are prevalent, how they are simply an echo chamber for people heavily invested in the game (financially and mentally). It's hardly a place to get a decent measure of general opinion.
The opinion of the backers, the opinion of those who PAY to bring this game into existence ... thats the ONLY quantifiable metric that matters. Your preacher analog is faulty. God rarely follows measurable milestones and is not well known for reacting gracefully to Alpha testing feedback.
The general opinion - do you mean that of the general public ? That of non-backers ? Frankly speaking: why the f... should i care about the opinion of anyone who is not a backer ? The game is not made for them, its made for the backers who put their money into it to make it happen. Of course, with 680.000+ backers its impossible to have 100 % of the backers agree to 100% of the design decisions. For instance I would wish to see a much more sophisticated SWG style crafting system in the game. But is that a reason to cry "foul" ? Because CIG is making design choices as they have to - and not everyone will like every decision ? Does that make SC a bad game or CIG a bad company ? IMHO it does not.
And if someone on the forums is so thin-skinned that he cannot accept that NOT everyone agrees to his personal point of view, then this person should re-think if multi-player games are really the right thing for them. l'enfer, c'est les autres
This game also has no one to keep them in check. Investors and shareholders, can be a detriment to a company but at the same time they help keep the company focused because they do want a return on their investment at some point in time. With none of the above they can basically keep delaying the game as long as they want while they push out ships to sell in the store saying that they need just this extra capital to make the game really shine. Are they going to do this? I have no idea but I am just putting that out there.
I also find it rather funny that you make fun of someone for
"60 dollars for a game with a tacked on cash shop, season passes and overpriced DLC"
when star citizen currently has a cash shop for a game that isn't even released yet and ships can go for hundreds or thousands of dollars. I will see your /facepalm and raise you a /doublefacepalm
This is especially true for Roberts who has a history of getting carried away with what is desirable and what is actually achievable.
@ rpmcmurphy
You STILL DON'T understand. We WANT him to get carried away. We WANT HIM to challenge what people deem achievable. We WANT HIM to SURPASS what is considered "achievable". And WE, the backers, give him both the time and the money to do it. Something a standard industry publishing system won't do.
>>>This game also has no one to keep them in check. >>> you could not be more wrong. This game has 683.984 "investors" checking on the progress of the game. And these "investors" are asking for VERY detailed constant progress reports - and getting them from CIG.
Have fun
No, you only think you want that. I think it's you who doesn't understand. So many have been around now and have seen it before. The developer who provides every feature every gamer ever wanted. Even with the best of intentions, they over promise and can't deliver what's expected. The keyword(s) in that post wasn't "carried away" but rather "achievable".
I think you're presuming to speak for an awful lot of people here, I dare say many people would be quite happy with a modern WC or FL.
Besides, given his history I think that's a pretty foolish comment.
Consider it foolish, if you must.
It is nonetheless the way of thinking of 95+ % of the people on the Star Citzen forums (based on personally watching the RSI/CIG forums for the last 2 years). You can easily find that out yourself by visiting the forums. Or by making a poll there - let the backers give you their answer themselves !
And they DO get a modern WC too. Its called Squadron 42 and its a solo game.
But they get much more then that. In Squadron 42 you earn your citzenship through military service. Then the REAL adventure starts as you are then free to choose your own path in the Persistent Universe.
Have fun
Oh come on, is that supposed to be some sort of quantifiable metric? Akin to saying "Preacher claims God is real, all you have to do is read the Bible."
I read the forums and can see for myself how anyone with a sceptical lean is treated, how hype over upcoming ship sales are prevalent, how they are simply an echo chamber for people heavily invested in the game (financially and mentally). It's hardly a place to get a decent measure of general opinion.
First of all, I think that the "many" you talk about who would be satisfied with an updated WC are a massive minority. Sorry, I think that if you're looking for an updated WC there are plenty of space flight sims out there already. Also, anyone who actually grew up with the series remembers the original vision of FL and how it categorically under-delivered because development was essentially halted because it was a money sink. So I definitely don't think that SC raised 60 million dollars to deliver an updated WC. As I mentioned, there are plenty of games out there right now that do that and can offer that space flight sim satisfaction without any major commitment. The reason that people support this game and the reason that they are so "radical" is because they want that original Chris Roberts vision. They don't want a publisher driven 10-hour experience. Sorry.
If you honestly think that people who want an updated WC are in the majority then I think that there is definitely someone in this conversation who is delusional, but it probably isn't who you think it is.
Saying SC in it's current form is not P2W and its only pledge to support the game, is the same as saying political sponsors are only doing it for the love of their country. Yeah, right.
Faulty analog.
Are these political sponsors you mention really the ones who CREATE their country in the first place ?
Because in THIS case - in the case of Star Citizen - those who pledge are the ones who help to CREATE it. They are NOT some leeches that later want to wiggle their way to the top.
The reason that people support this game and the reason that they are so "radical" is because they want that original Chris Roberts vision. They don't want a publisher driven 10-hour experience. Sorry.
If you honestly think that people who want an updated WC are in the majority then I think that there is definitely someone in this conversation who is delusional, but it probably isn't who you think it is.
Well said !
Pushing the boundaries of the possible ... thats what many people/backers look for in this project.
This game also has no one to keep them in check. Investors and shareholders, can be a detriment to a company but at the same time they help keep the company focused because they do want a return on their investment at some point in time. With none of the above they can basically keep delaying the game as long as they want while they push out ships to sell in the store saying that they need just this extra capital to make the game really shine. Are they going to do this? I have no idea but I am just putting that out there.
I also find it rather funny that you make fun of someone for
"60 dollars for a game with a tacked on cash shop, season passes and overpriced DLC"
when star citizen currently has a cash shop for a game that isn't even released yet and ships can go for hundreds or thousands of dollars. I will see your /facepalm and raise you a /doublefacepalm
This is especially true for Roberts who has a history of getting carried away with what is desirable and what is actually achievable.
@ rpmcmurphy
You STILL DON'T understand. We WANT him to get carried away. We WANT HIM to challenge what people deem achievable. We WANT HIM to SURPASS what is considered "achievable". And WE, the backers, give him both the time and the money to do it. Something a standard industry publishing system won't do.
>>>This game also has no one to keep them in check. >>> you could not be more wrong. This game has 683.984 "investors" checking on the progress of the game. And these "investors" are asking for VERY detailed constant progress reports - and getting them from CIG.
Have fun
Here's the thing tho. Those 683,984 backers have absolutely no say in how the game will progress. Yes they can make suggestions and the devs can implement them if they choose or they can tell those backers too bloody bad. If the devs decide to do a complete 180 and go in a whole new direction and make this a call of duty clone(will never happen but using a extreme impossible example) then too bad, so sad they already have your money and you still have no say.
also given Chris' past history of him over reaching and then needing to get bailed out by large companies who then cut the fat so to speak I wouldn't exactly be praising Chris for his feature creep and missing deadlines
This is a serious question, because I keep seeing people insist it is not just because you will not be able to buy the ships with RL money after it releases. The problem is you CAN buy them now with RL money. How is it people spending $1000's of dollars on ships today are not paying to win from day 1 while the rest of us are flying around in our poor man newbie ships? If you are more powerful from day 1 you will be more powerful day 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and so on. So I can eventually afford to buy your $1000 ship in game after a couple months of playing, by then where is the guy who started with that ship?
Seriously, explain to me how this is not pay to win without the "no one is forcing you to buy anything" cliche, and without telling me everything will be available in game for game currency. I get both of those concepts, but it walks and talks like a duck, to me it is a duck. Convince me otherwise please, because so far I don't get it.
I don't get why anyone would want to convince you. Your definition of P2W is your own, your conclusions about where people may end up are your own. You'll have to make up your own mind on whether it will keep you from playing or not.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I am surprised that it still is a topic of discussion.
Because the mayority of the backers of the game do not consider it P2W. And only the opinion of the backers really matters.
Because crowdfunding does not automatically mean P2W, a difference that is very hard to grasp for some people.
YOU PERSONALLY may consider it P2W. I PERSONALLY do not consider it P2W.
All these are opinions. Neither of it is a universal truth. That is why this discussion will keep popping up.
Have fun
Of course it is pay to win at the start of the game. And will be for a while. Anyone that says different is flat out lying.
After a few months though it will be a much different game. And NOT pay to win. Since everyone can eventually build up a hangar of bigger and better ships with in-game cash and time.
So both camps are right i guess. But because it stops being pay to win down the line...does not lessen the real benefits people get from buying those ships now. They will have a serious benefit when the game starts and will keep it for a while. Bigger ships equal better attack and defense, as well as a lot more cash coming in earlier.
Of course all this could be moot. The company could take the cash and run at ANY time and no one could do anything about it. or it could produce the game people are dreaming about as well. As with most things i bet it is somewhere in the middle.
Here's the thing tho. Those 683,984 backers have absolutely no say in how the game will progress. Yes they can make suggestions and the devs can implement them if they choose or they can tell those backers too bloody bad.
--> You don't have much of an idea how close the communication between the community and the developers is in many many forums threads, do you ? Pro Tip: Check out the "Ask a dev" Section
--> As has been often said: it is simply impossible to make a design decision that every single one of those 683.984 backers like. You will always have some that don't like the decision, no matter how you decide. But that is in the nature of the subject. That is NOT equal to telling the backers "too bloody bad". At some point CIG has to decide, otherwise no game gets done.
If the devs decide to do a complete 180 and go in a whole new direction and make this a call of duty clone(will never happen but using a extreme impossible example) then too bad, so sad they already have your money and you still have no say.
--> Which would be against everything the team stands for ... as almost every gaming journalist has stated when he visited the team. They ALL report meeting an EXTREMELY dedicated team willing to go the extra mile to create the best space sim ever (and then some ...)
also given Chris' past history of him over reaching and then needing to get bailed out by large companies who then cut the fat so to speak I wouldn't exactly be praising Chris for his feature creep and missing deadlines
--> We are going in circles with that argument. You bring it up, i call it irrelevant ... because Chris Roberts is NOT dealing with a large company anymore, but with a group of backers that have stated time and time again that they want to give him all the time he needs to get the job done as planned. There is NO FIXED DEADLINE. Its done when its done. So IT DOES NOT MATTER if Chris misses some deadlines set down 2 years ago. Try to grasp this concept - and you may begin to understand how most of the backers think.
---> And - going back to the topic of the thread - the current monetization strategy (no matter if its called P2W or not) brings in enough cash to not only give the team enough time, but also enough money to do it. I know, some people think that CIG just takes the money and runs .... or takes the money and uses it for women, drugs and fast cars (insert idiotic conspiracy theory XX here). I can only assume that none of the people that think this have ever met (part of ) the team in person - this is CIG and not a two man indy (scammer ?!) team like SuperCrit or SMP. I further have to assume that these people also think every one of the gaming journalists that spoke well of CIG is deaf, dumb and blind.
Bigger ships equal better attack and defense, as well as a lot more cash coming in earlier.
**snip**
I think you are making the mistake many people make ... they apply standards from e.g. EVE Online to this game.
A bigger ship is NOT better than a smaller ship and does NOT automatically equal better attack and defense. Bigger ships in Star Citizen are NOT Titans or Motherships (and if you consider a Titan in EVE semi-invincible, i can show you an interesting shipwreck monument in the deep south of EVE ;-)
A bigger ship in Star Citizen just fulfills another role compared to a smaller ship. That does not make it better or worse than the smaller ship.
A bigger ship without (player controlled) fighter escort (consisting of smaller ships) is easy meat for any small group of (player controlled) torpedo bombers. Its like stone, scissors and paper - there is always someone out there that can beat you. Every Chris Roberts game so far has followed those principles and this one is no exception according to the currently available information. Unprotected bigger ships flown by a single player are even more in danger ... as they can be boarded and captured by (player controlled) marines in FPS combat, using some fancy flying and a boarding action gunship.
And w.r.t. more cash coming in earlier ... as the bigger ships only can use large jump points, which usually leads to longer routes, a smaller ship with somewhat smaller cargo space able to use smaller jump points and shorter routes may actually generate more cash per time unit than your larger ship. Only time will tell, as no one has tested this part of the game yet. So you just express a personal opinion, not a fact.
Comments
This game also has no one to keep them in check. Investors and shareholders, can be a detriment to a company but at the same time they help keep the company focused because they do want a return on their investment at some point in time. With none of the above they can basically keep delaying the game as long as they want while they push out ships to sell in the store saying that they need just this extra capital to make the game really shine. Are they going to do this? I have no idea but I am just putting that out there.
I also find it rather funny that you make fun of someone for
"60 dollars for a game with a tacked on cash shop, season passes and overpriced DLC"
when star citizen currently has a cash shop for a game that isn't even released yet and ships can go for hundreds or thousands of dollars. I will see your /facepalm and raise you a /doublefacepalm
No.
If that was peoples only reason to pledge, there would be no other bonus than getting the game made.
Seriously.
The whole "pledge with bonus items" is just a badly disguised whaling trick. It is kind of a reverse microtransaction thing: Macrotransactions. But the angle is the same: Get the whales to caugh up money.
This is especially true for Roberts who has a history of getting carried away with what is desirable and what is actually achievable.
@ rpmcmurphy
You STILL DON'T understand. We WANT him to get carried away. We WANT HIM to challenge what people deem achievable. We WANT HIM to SURPASS what is considered "achievable". And WE, the backers, give him both the time and the money to do it. Something a standard industry publishing system won't do.
@Kefo
>>>This game also has no one to keep them in check. >>> you could not be more wrong. This game has 683.984 "investors" checking on the progress of the game. And these "investors" are asking for VERY detailed constant progress reports - and getting them from CIG.
Have fun
I think you're presuming to speak for an awful lot of people here, I dare say many people would be quite happy with a modern WC or FL.
Besides, given his history I think that's a pretty foolish comment.
Consider it foolish, if you must.
It is nonetheless the way of thinking of 95+ % of the people on the Star Citzen forums (based on personally watching the RSI/CIG forums for the last 2 years). You can easily find that out yourself by visiting the forums. Or by making a poll there - let the backers give you their answer themselves !
And they DO get a modern WC too. Its called Squadron 42 and its a solo game.
But they get much more then that. In Squadron 42 you earn your citzenship through military service. Then the REAL adventure starts as you are then free to choose your own path in the Persistent Universe.
Have fun
I don't know how people can take words of devs as gospel when past has taught us that devs always do U TURN on what they say. Nothing is set in stone and i won't be surprised if they start selling ships for real money after release.
what are you going to win in an open ended space sim ?
Oh come on, is that supposed to be some sort of quantifiable metric? Akin to saying "Preacher claims God is real, all you have to do is read the Bible."
I read the forums and can see for myself how anyone with a sceptical lean is treated, how hype over upcoming ship sales are prevalent, how they are simply an echo chamber for people heavily invested in the game (financially and mentally). It's hardly a place to get a decent measure of general opinion.
I do not take the words of developers as gospel. However, i do not consider them liars by definition either. Time will tell.
I agree that nothing is set in stone. Things can and do change. I even believe that the aspect of "selling ships for real money" is awefully overrated and its influence greatly exaggerated. In principle you can do that in EVE Online for years. But after 10 years in EVE Online i do not see it having any measurable influence on the state of the game. Even IF someone buys himself a Titan .... who cares ? With several hundred other Titans in the game .... *** shrug *** ... so what ?
Have fun
Saying SC in it's current form is not P2W and its only pledge to support the game, is the same as saying political sponsors are only doing it for the love of their country. Yeah, right.
It is P2W.
I am surprised that it still is a topic of discussion.
Same for Everquest Next.
Instead of continuesly pointlessly discussing if or how much p2w it is, simply ackowegedle the fact that most game companies doing MMORPGs and MMO-like games WANT to sell in-game advantages to players for $.
Then if you don't want to take part in that kind of game enviroment, don't play such games. Sadly it is the only option atm.
The opinion of the backers, the opinion of those who PAY to bring this game into existence ... thats the ONLY quantifiable metric that matters. Your preacher analog is faulty. God rarely follows measurable milestones and is not well known for reacting gracefully to Alpha testing feedback.
The general opinion - do you mean that of the general public ? That of non-backers ? Frankly speaking: why the f... should i care about the opinion of anyone who is not a backer ? The game is not made for them, its made for the backers who put their money into it to make it happen. Of course, with 680.000+ backers its impossible to have 100 % of the backers agree to 100% of the design decisions. For instance I would wish to see a much more sophisticated SWG style crafting system in the game. But is that a reason to cry "foul" ? Because CIG is making design choices as they have to - and not everyone will like every decision ? Does that make SC a bad game or CIG a bad company ? IMHO it does not.
And if someone on the forums is so thin-skinned that he cannot accept that NOT everyone agrees to his personal point of view, then this person should re-think if multi-player games are really the right thing for them. l'enfer, c'est les autres
Have fun
No, you only think you want that. I think it's you who doesn't understand. So many have been around now and have seen it before. The developer who provides every feature every gamer ever wanted. Even with the best of intentions, they over promise and can't deliver what's expected. The keyword(s) in that post wasn't "carried away" but rather "achievable".
Because the mayority of the backers of the game do not consider it P2W. And only the opinion of the backers really matters.
Because crowdfunding does not automatically mean P2W, a difference that is very hard to grasp for some people.
YOU PERSONALLY may consider it P2W. I PERSONALLY do not consider it P2W.
All these are opinions. Neither of it is a universal truth. That is why this discussion will keep popping up.
Have fun
First of all, I think that the "many" you talk about who would be satisfied with an updated WC are a massive minority. Sorry, I think that if you're looking for an updated WC there are plenty of space flight sims out there already. Also, anyone who actually grew up with the series remembers the original vision of FL and how it categorically under-delivered because development was essentially halted because it was a money sink. So I definitely don't think that SC raised 60 million dollars to deliver an updated WC. As I mentioned, there are plenty of games out there right now that do that and can offer that space flight sim satisfaction without any major commitment. The reason that people support this game and the reason that they are so "radical" is because they want that original Chris Roberts vision. They don't want a publisher driven 10-hour experience. Sorry.
If you honestly think that people who want an updated WC are in the majority then I think that there is definitely someone in this conversation who is delusional, but it probably isn't who you think it is.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Faulty analog.
Are these political sponsors you mention really the ones who CREATE their country in the first place ?
Because in THIS case - in the case of Star Citizen - those who pledge are the ones who help to CREATE it. They are NOT some leeches that later want to wiggle their way to the top.
Have fun
Well said !
Pushing the boundaries of the possible ... thats what many people/backers look for in this project.
Have fun
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
Here's the thing tho. Those 683,984 backers have absolutely no say in how the game will progress. Yes they can make suggestions and the devs can implement them if they choose or they can tell those backers too bloody bad. If the devs decide to do a complete 180 and go in a whole new direction and make this a call of duty clone(will never happen but using a extreme impossible example) then too bad, so sad they already have your money and you still have no say.
also given Chris' past history of him over reaching and then needing to get bailed out by large companies who then cut the fat so to speak I wouldn't exactly be praising Chris for his feature creep and missing deadlines
I don't get why anyone would want to convince you. Your definition of P2W is your own, your conclusions about where people may end up are your own. You'll have to make up your own mind on whether it will keep you from playing or not.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Of course it is pay to win at the start of the game. And will be for a while. Anyone that says different is flat out lying.
After a few months though it will be a much different game. And NOT pay to win. Since everyone can eventually build up a hangar of bigger and better ships with in-game cash and time.
So both camps are right i guess. But because it stops being pay to win down the line...does not lessen the real benefits people get from buying those ships now. They will have a serious benefit when the game starts and will keep it for a while. Bigger ships equal better attack and defense, as well as a lot more cash coming in earlier.
Of course all this could be moot. The company could take the cash and run at ANY time and no one could do anything about it. or it could produce the game people are dreaming about as well. As with most things i bet it is somewhere in the middle.
I think you are making the mistake many people make ... they apply standards from e.g. EVE Online to this game.
A bigger ship is NOT better than a smaller ship and does NOT automatically equal better attack and defense. Bigger ships in Star Citizen are NOT Titans or Motherships (and if you consider a Titan in EVE semi-invincible, i can show you an interesting shipwreck monument in the deep south of EVE ;-)
A bigger ship in Star Citizen just fulfills another role compared to a smaller ship. That does not make it better or worse than the smaller ship.
A bigger ship without (player controlled) fighter escort (consisting of smaller ships) is easy meat for any small group of (player controlled) torpedo bombers. Its like stone, scissors and paper - there is always someone out there that can beat you. Every Chris Roberts game so far has followed those principles and this one is no exception according to the currently available information. Unprotected bigger ships flown by a single player are even more in danger ... as they can be boarded and captured by (player controlled) marines in FPS combat, using some fancy flying and a boarding action gunship.
And w.r.t. more cash coming in earlier ... as the bigger ships only can use large jump points, which usually leads to longer routes, a smaller ship with somewhat smaller cargo space able to use smaller jump points and shorter routes may actually generate more cash per time unit than your larger ship. Only time will tell, as no one has tested this part of the game yet. So you just express a personal opinion, not a fact.
Have fun