and i quote "check out some of the MMORPG genre's winter holiday events and promotions, conveniently rounded up for you in our guide below. The list isn't exhaustive, so feel free to chime in with any we've missed that you love."
And what is included in the list? and i quote
"Destiny: "Be on the lookout for some small stocking stuffers sometime after the Holidays have come and gone."
"League of Legends: Snowdown brings sales and skins and new game modes to the biggest online game in the world."
"World of Tanks: Global maps on are ceasefire through the holidays!"
"World of Warplanes: A snowball mode has joined the game for the holiday season"
I bet they think MOBA and instanced pvp games are MMOs too.
Hmm, I was under the impression that MMO meant Massively Multiplayer Online, are all those games you listed single-player offline games?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
So 2 sites that are including games that are not under the definition in order to offer material for the crossover segment of the audience is now common usage? I think you are over estimating the size and grasp of these two web sites. For common usage, you'd have to go to the game's player bases. And I think most people who play the games you are calling MMOs but really aren't, don't really consider them MMOs but MOBAs and FPSs etc.
just that you are not looking does not mean that there aren't more.
Take WoT for an example .... many review sites call it a MMO. And you really have no idea what most people consider. But it is a fact that MMORPG, massively, superdata, and newszoo consider many you would like not as MMO .. MMOs.
and all you have is ... your opinion.
An opinion? No, what I have is a acronym. But we've been over this so, i'll drop it here
and i quote "check out some of the MMORPG genre's winter holiday events and promotions, conveniently rounded up for you in our guide below. The list isn't exhaustive, so feel free to chime in with any we've missed that you love."
And what is included in the list? and i quote
"Destiny: "Be on the lookout for some small stocking stuffers sometime after the Holidays have come and gone."
"League of Legends: Snowdown brings sales and skins and new game modes to the biggest online game in the world."
"World of Tanks: Global maps on are ceasefire through the holidays!"
"World of Warplanes: A snowball mode has joined the game for the holiday season"
I bet they think MOBA and instanced pvp games are MMOs too.
Hmm, I was under the impression that MMO meant Massively Multiplayer Online, are all those games you listed single-player offline games?
You impression, apparently, is not shared by the MMO site, massively.com.
Massively has been reporting on such games for a long time. They have their "not so massively" column and they follow those games. To be fair I can see why they do. Games that are built around multiplayer have a wider audience than any strict definition you keep in regards to MMO or worse MMORPG. Even enthusiast such as ones on these forums bicker over the true meaning of these genres and many who play MMO's also play smaller multiplayer games.
Lets be real here too, it's not like they are covering games that aren't even multiplayer games like this site does from time to time. Atleast the games mentioned are still multiplayer centric.
I said it many times here on this forum. But the problem I have with sites like this and massively covering Online-Non-MMO-Games is that they tend to not point out that these games arent MMOs.
This leads to clever marketers of the video game businesses to try to use the "MMO" tag to market their games as something that it isnt. We the consumers that are trying to research about the game before buying it, will get a bunch of misinformation from a simple Google Search because of all the loaded info on the MMO sites.
Thats what happen to me and Guild Wars 1. I was looking for a 3D MMO to play before getting World of Warcraft. So me and my friends got Guild Wars 1 since the internet was advertising the game on MMO sites as a MMO without a sub fee. Well. now we know its not a MMO at all, but that was after we already paid for accounts to try the game for ourselves. those MMO sites left that detail off, and we were left disappointed.
Now imagine that scenario above but with more Online-Non-MMO-Games, using that same marketing tactic of getting their games covered on MMO sites.
This is why the meaning of the term MMO has changed so much, its because of clever marketers paying sites to do the work of changing the meaning so other games can use the tag. Its very misleading.
And even for the people that do research before buying a game, those games on MMO sites also call them MMOs now, so we as consumers have to do even more digging to find the truth about the game, which usually is already buried by fanboisim of the game who are also trying to push the "This Game Is A MMO" narrative. We also saw that from the Guild Wars 1 community if you want proof of this, as well as the Neverwinter community. Both of which, although buried, have developers who actually stated their games arent MMOs, yet the MMO sites and Community of those games still push the "THIS GAME IS A MMO" narrative.
and i quote "check out some of the MMORPG genre's winter holiday events and promotions, conveniently rounded up for you in our guide below. The list isn't exhaustive, so feel free to chime in with any we've missed that you love."
And what is included in the list? and i quote
"Destiny: "Be on the lookout for some small stocking stuffers sometime after the Holidays have come and gone."
"League of Legends: Snowdown brings sales and skins and new game modes to the biggest online game in the world."
"World of Tanks: Global maps on are ceasefire through the holidays!"
"World of Warplanes: A snowball mode has joined the game for the holiday season"
I bet they think MOBA and instanced pvp games are MMOs too.
Hmm, I was under the impression that MMO meant Massively Multiplayer Online, are all those games you listed single-player offline games?
You impression, apparently, is not shared by the MMO site, massively.com.
Those games are MMOs... Massive(-ly) Multiplayer Online... So long as they have a massive amount of people within the same arena in cooperation and-or competition, and happen to be Online (which these days can even be considered through consoles and phones). So what is your point?
None of them are MMORPGs. It does not matter what typos are made, or what empty headed authors there are. But thank you for pointing out the stupidity among those that write articles. Keep up the good work!
No you are wrong.
Online Game and Massively Multiplayer Online Game are two different things which you are confusing.
a Online Game can have multiplayer, but not like a Massively Multiplayer Online Game.
MMO and MMORPG are one in the same. MMO is the parent term, and MMORPG is the child term of the parent MMO term.
MMORPG is a MMO that features primarily RPG gameplay.
There is no harm in believing psychological horror movies are same as romantic comedies, just don't expect anyone to believe your bs.
Except, isn't that what Twilight films are, some crazy mish mash of survival horror and a romcom..? i've never watched any of them, but my understanding is that it has vampires and werewolves in it, which last time i watched one of those types of films, Kate Beckinsale was doing an awesome job as a Vampire that got a bit too chummy with a Werewolf, lots of action, of the sword and gun variety too
Thing is LoL or WoT are nowhere near massively. They are just normal lobby multiplayer games, exactly like Call of Duty or Starcraft is. RPG or not have nothing to do with it.
If you are looking for "MMO" that is not "MMORPG" then Planetside 1&2 are non-RPG MMO, to be exact MMOFPS and not much more.
It all does not matter though. MMO press is struggling so they will include anything and report on anything to fight for users/viewers. They will call 1v1 card games MMO (they already do) and they will report on single player games, facebook games or single player mobile games if someone at managment will decide it is good idea. They simply want to stay in business, when MMO/MMORPG market is shrinking.
Well, now, wait a minute ...
Though I wouldn't, at first glance, consider giving them the "massively" word that is usually set aside for the traditional idea of an mmo(rpg or whatever) let's see what really is being considered.
Though my first mmo was an older mmo with a decent server size, AND I met quite a few people over the several years I played it, I can't rightfully say I met thousands of players. Not even hundreds if you want to count "met" as me having actual conversations with these people.
The truth about the massively (as I see it) is that circumstances are only going to have you interface with a certain amount of people over the course of your play time. Part of this has to do with where you level, your schedule, the schedule of others, etc.
So for all the "massively" that people like to tout as a prime draw for mmo's(rpg's whatever) I highly doubt that most people will attest to meeting and talking with thousands upon thousands of people. I'd find it hard to believe.
The idea is that while out in the world you"could" meet just about anyone. That's sort of the thrust of it all.
My understanding of lobby games (as they were never my taste so I don't play them) is that you will be matched with any number of the thousands of players who are also looking play. So your pool is also a great many people and you will only be matched with a subset of those people during your course of play.
Therefore the same thing is sort of achieved. In both the traditional mmo and these lobby games you will meet and play with/against a subset of a far larger or "massive" group of people.
Given that, I can easily understand why someone would consider those games as earning the "massivley" word even if the idea of community in them might take part more on some forum. At least as far as my understanding of these games go. Perhaps one can "shoot the shit" during game play, allowing these games to have more in game community.
Thinking like that every multiplayer online game should be called an MMO. After all what is a diffrence between Call of Duty and League of Legends? That one is First person perspective and other is isometric? What is a diffrence between Starcraft 2 and Heartstone that makes one 'massive' and an other not? Both of them are mostly about 1v1 player pvp matches.
With thinking like you presented every single multiplayer online game should be MMO, which is absurd.
There is no harm in believing psychological horror movies are same as romantic comedies, just don't expect anyone to believe your bs.
Except, isn't that what Twilight films are, some crazy mish mash of survival horror and a romcom..? i've never watched any of them, but my understanding is that it has vampires and werewolves in it, which last time i watched one of those types of films, Kate Beckinsale was doing an awesome job as a Vampire that got a bit too chummy with a Werewolf, lots of action, of the sword and gun variety too
So having Werewolf or Vampire in a movie makes them horror?
That is some original kind of thinking.
Movie you are describing which had Kate Beckinsale in it, I believe is called Underworld. Which also was not a horror movie.
It was just an action movie, only diffrence was that instead of i.e. some normal man killing other normal man with guns and fists in streety of New York, you had Kate Beckinsale with fake tooth killing other guys&gals with fake tooth.
Fun action movie. Definately not a horror though.
Besides even if you would insist to call them a horror&action movie mix then horror&action movie mix does not equal horror.
Same as coffee with icecream in it, is not the same as icecream. Two diffrent things.
Well, do the math, how many mmo's were released this year? Now how many are expected to "definitely" release next year?
Can an mmo site still stay in business with the news about a few mmo's all the while having forum goers continually argue over the same topics such as sandbox vs themepark, how games are being monetized and solo vs group play?
My guess is that is going to get old(er).
Good point. This site would still work with just MMOs since it is more a forum than an actual news site but Massively would be a lot smaller if it didn't add regular multiplayer games as well.
The annoying thing both here and there is just that they tend to mix the games, a simple label on the games would keep people from getting confused and consider all multiplayer games as MMOs.
It takes me very little cognitive function to conclude that a one on one trading card game like Hearthstone is not a MMO.
Really these sites and any people are just doing us all a service and loudly proclaiming by listing Hearthstone as a MMO that they are completely clueless. That or the only thing that is not a MMO is a single player game and the term becomes so watered down you could describe any AOL game like online chess or checkers as a MMO.
Laughable.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Good point. This site would still work with just MMOs since it is more a forum than an actual news site but Massively would be a lot smaller if it didn't add regular multiplayer games as well.
The annoying thing both here and there is just that they tend to mix the games, a simple label on the games would keep people from getting confused and consider all multiplayer games as MMOs.
Why would they want to do that?
If what you say is true .. there are few MMO & little MMO news, expanding the definition would make MMO more relevant to gamers. It is not like calling World of Tank a MMO will make much harm ... it is f2p anyway ... and anyone who spends 5 min will know what it is about.
The set of MMOs is just not big enough to make a clear label have a high value.
That's like saying classical music should just be lumped into classic rock because there aren't enough Beethoven MP3s being sold and released. Like saying we should call film music composers pop artists because they don't generate enough revenue and news when considered film music composers. Like saying John Williams (Star Wars film music, Harry Potter, Jaws, etc.) is the same as Iggy Azalea because without this generalization, film music magazine would not have enough to talk about.
And incidentally, this has been exained multiple times in different threads specifically in response to your claims of generalizing the term. We didn't need an entire thread for it.
I admit it's tiring to explain to people what MMO's are, but it's also going against the stream, because sites like these are indoctrinating people to think they're MMO's. I don't care if you're not meeting the thousands of people in a game like World of Warcraft, but it's certainly a MMO (even though, they're increasingly phasing and instancing the game).
Games like LoL, D3, WoT, Counter Strike and more...please, now you're just talking nonsense. There's a reason they're just called MOBA or generally refered to MP lobby games. I very much doubt we'll ever see anything called MMOBA in our lifetime. Maybe a lash or two would keep the genre in check, if people mention the games in any other way.
Oh, and about not enough MMO's being available to report on, be it RPG, FPS or RTS, that answer is simple. Most sites are rarely reporting on games that are worked on in the rest of the world, unless it suddenly becomes a hit to gain more viewers. Look at the delay of taking a look at games like Lineage Eternal or Lost Ark as examples, and you'll know this is true.
The term is an acronym made from 6 words. These words have definitions according to the English language. They are definable and are established. For this or any other site to say otherwise is misuse. This is NOT subjective. And while one can argue the exact number that is "Massively" is subjective, it is NOT 5 or 6. These are NOT opinions but actual definitions. It's not even common use, it's marketing. They're trying to get their products in front of more people. Now, all the sudden because Superdata (As if that company's credibility isn't in question), publishes a list of MMOs that includes a 1v1 game on it is considered an MMO because of "common usage"?
Originally posted by MadFrenchie And incidentally, this has been exained multiple times in different threads specifically in response to your claims of generalizing the term. We didn't need an entire thread for it.
Given the enthusiasm of the discussion, I would disagree. Plus, this specific case on massively has not been discussed.
The term is an acronym made from 6 words. These words have definitions according to the English language. They are definable and are established. For this or any other site to say otherwise is misuse. This is NOT subjective. And while one can argue the exact number that is "Massively" is subjective, it is NOT 5 or 6. These are NOT opinions but actual definitions. It's not even common use, it's marketing. They're trying to get their products in front of more people. Now, all the sudden because Superdata (As if that company's credibility isn't in question), publishes a list of MMOs that includes a 1v1 game on it is considered an MMO because of "common usage"?
So according to the OP these games are dealing with a massive amount of players the incorrect way. If they dealt with the massive amount of players differently then they could call themselves a massive multiplayer online game. Instead he wants them to call it a multiplayer online game. Even though the gaming companies are dealing with a massive amount of players. The word massive addresses the amount of players they are dealing with not the place they are put.
Originally posted by filmoret So according to the OP these games are dealing with a massive amount of players the incorrect way. If they dealt with the massive amount of players differently then they could call themselves a massive multiplayer online game. Instead he wants them to call it a multiplayer online game. Even though the gaming companies are dealing with a massive amount of players. The word massive addresses the amount of players they are dealing with not the place they are put.
The term is an acronym made from 6 words. These words have definitions according to the English language. They are definable and are established. For this or any other site to say otherwise is misuse. This is NOT subjective. And while one can argue the exact number that is "Massively" is subjective, it is NOT 5 or 6. These are NOT opinions but actual definitions. It's not even common use, it's marketing. They're trying to get their products in front of more people. Now, all the sudden because Superdata (As if that company's credibility isn't in question), publishes a list of MMOs that includes a 1v1 game on it is considered an MMO because of "common usage"?
as if the literal meaning of the words matter ..
Yes, meanings matter, otherwise we'd have something like this in our everyday language.
The term is an acronym made from 6 words. These words have definitions according to the English language. They are definable and are established. For this or any other site to say otherwise is misuse. This is NOT subjective. And while one can argue the exact number that is "Massively" is subjective, it is NOT 5 or 6. These are NOT opinions but actual definitions. It's not even common use, it's marketing. They're trying to get their products in front of more people. Now, all the sudden because Superdata (As if that company's credibility isn't in question), publishes a list of MMOs that includes a 1v1 game on it is considered an MMO because of "common usage"?
as if the literal meaning of the words matter ..
Yes, meanings matter, otherwise we'd have something like this in our everyday language.
Clearly this is never going to sink in with you, lol. If I was a betting man I'd wager you have very rarely been wrong about anything throughout your life. If you know what I mean.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Comments
Hmm, I was under the impression that MMO meant Massively Multiplayer Online, are all those games you listed single-player offline games?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
An opinion? No, what I have is a acronym. But we've been over this so, i'll drop it here
You impression, apparently, is not shared by the MMO site, massively.com.
I said it many times here on this forum. But the problem I have with sites like this and massively covering Online-Non-MMO-Games is that they tend to not point out that these games arent MMOs.
This leads to clever marketers of the video game businesses to try to use the "MMO" tag to market their games as something that it isnt. We the consumers that are trying to research about the game before buying it, will get a bunch of misinformation from a simple Google Search because of all the loaded info on the MMO sites.
Thats what happen to me and Guild Wars 1. I was looking for a 3D MMO to play before getting World of Warcraft. So me and my friends got Guild Wars 1 since the internet was advertising the game on MMO sites as a MMO without a sub fee. Well. now we know its not a MMO at all, but that was after we already paid for accounts to try the game for ourselves. those MMO sites left that detail off, and we were left disappointed.
Now imagine that scenario above but with more Online-Non-MMO-Games, using that same marketing tactic of getting their games covered on MMO sites.
This is why the meaning of the term MMO has changed so much, its because of clever marketers paying sites to do the work of changing the meaning so other games can use the tag. Its very misleading.
And even for the people that do research before buying a game, those games on MMO sites also call them MMOs now, so we as consumers have to do even more digging to find the truth about the game, which usually is already buried by fanboisim of the game who are also trying to push the "This Game Is A MMO" narrative. We also saw that from the Guild Wars 1 community if you want proof of this, as well as the Neverwinter community. Both of which, although buried, have developers who actually stated their games arent MMOs, yet the MMO sites and Community of those games still push the "THIS GAME IS A MMO" narrative.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
No you are wrong.
Online Game and Massively Multiplayer Online Game are two different things which you are confusing.
a Online Game can have multiplayer, but not like a Massively Multiplayer Online Game.
MMO and MMORPG are one in the same. MMO is the parent term, and MMORPG is the child term of the parent MMO term.
MMORPG is a MMO that features primarily RPG gameplay.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
LoL players are well aware that they are not playing an MMO. Straight from LoL forums: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1814292
There is no harm in believing psychological horror movies are same as romantic comedies, just don't expect anyone to believe your bs.
Except, isn't that what Twilight films are, some crazy mish mash of survival horror and a romcom..? i've never watched any of them, but my understanding is that it has vampires and werewolves in it, which last time i watched one of those types of films, Kate Beckinsale was doing an awesome job as a Vampire that got a bit too chummy with a Werewolf, lots of action, of the sword and gun variety too
Thinking like that every multiplayer online game should be called an MMO. After all what is a diffrence between Call of Duty and League of Legends? That one is First person perspective and other is isometric? What is a diffrence between Starcraft 2 and Heartstone that makes one 'massive' and an other not? Both of them are mostly about 1v1 player pvp matches.
With thinking like you presented every single multiplayer online game should be MMO, which is absurd.
So having Werewolf or Vampire in a movie makes them horror?
That is some original kind of thinking.
Movie you are describing which had Kate Beckinsale in it, I believe is called Underworld. Which also was not a horror movie.
It was just an action movie, only diffrence was that instead of i.e. some normal man killing other normal man with guns and fists in streety of New York, you had Kate Beckinsale with fake tooth killing other guys&gals with fake tooth.
Fun action movie. Definately not a horror though.
Besides even if you would insist to call them a horror&action movie mix then horror&action movie mix does not equal horror.
Same as coffee with icecream in it, is not the same as icecream. Two diffrent things.
Good point. This site would still work with just MMOs since it is more a forum than an actual news site but Massively would be a lot smaller if it didn't add regular multiplayer games as well.
The annoying thing both here and there is just that they tend to mix the games, a simple label on the games would keep people from getting confused and consider all multiplayer games as MMOs.
It takes me very little cognitive function to conclude that a one on one trading card game like Hearthstone is not a MMO.
Really these sites and any people are just doing us all a service and loudly proclaiming by listing Hearthstone as a MMO that they are completely clueless. That or the only thing that is not a MMO is a single player game and the term becomes so watered down you could describe any AOL game like online chess or checkers as a MMO.
Laughable.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Why would they want to do that?
If what you say is true .. there are few MMO & little MMO news, expanding the definition would make MMO more relevant to gamers. It is not like calling World of Tank a MMO will make much harm ... it is f2p anyway ... and anyone who spends 5 min will know what it is about.
The set of MMOs is just not big enough to make a clear label have a high value.
I admit it's tiring to explain to people what MMO's are, but it's also going against the stream, because sites like these are indoctrinating people to think they're MMO's. I don't care if you're not meeting the thousands of people in a game like World of Warcraft, but it's certainly a MMO (even though, they're increasingly phasing and instancing the game).
Games like LoL, D3, WoT, Counter Strike and more...please, now you're just talking nonsense. There's a reason they're just called MOBA or generally refered to MP lobby games. I very much doubt we'll ever see anything called MMOBA in our lifetime. Maybe a lash or two would keep the genre in check, if people mention the games in any other way.
Oh, and about not enough MMO's being available to report on, be it RPG, FPS or RTS, that answer is simple. Most sites are rarely reporting on games that are worked on in the rest of the world, unless it suddenly becomes a hit to gain more viewers. Look at the delay of taking a look at games like Lineage Eternal or Lost Ark as examples, and you'll know this is true.
The term is an acronym made from 6 words. These words have definitions according to the English language. They are definable and are established. For this or any other site to say otherwise is misuse. This is NOT subjective. And while one can argue the exact number that is "Massively" is subjective, it is NOT 5 or 6. These are NOT opinions but actual definitions. It's not even common use, it's marketing. They're trying to get their products in front of more people. Now, all the sudden because Superdata (As if that company's credibility isn't in question), publishes a list of MMOs that includes a 1v1 game on it is considered an MMO because of "common usage"?
Given the enthusiasm of the discussion, I would disagree. Plus, this specific case on massively has not been discussed.
as if the literal meaning of the words matter ..You mean, according to massively.com?
Yes, meanings matter, otherwise we'd have something like this in our everyday language.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ROOi5xagxg
Certainly literal meaning does not matter to massively.com, and the reviews who call world of tanks a MMO.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb