They raised their funds and changed the development of the game to account for the funds. Some of you see this as a good thing. But others have seen the broken promises. They have clearly let the crowd funding success go to their heads. They have already gone back on what they have said in order to secure more funding. To those who believe this funding won't continue after the game releases, or that there is no chance what so ever that this game won't be straight up P2W, you're just being naive.
I am just going to wait and see what pans out here.
OP I wouldnt have advised you or anyone to spend any money on this game as it currently stands. But since you already have done so, I can only caution you to not get suckered in by all this chris robert guy's sweet talk and extravagant promises and end up spending more than what you paid for the starterpack.
Reading the responses from the "FANS" in this thread and other threads regarding this game I can see that some people here are clearly bat shit crazy and too far gone from reality. So much that it seems like they are subconsciously fooling themselves into believing every last bit of PR spin (and then some) from this developer while knowingly/unknowingly blocking out all their faults. Even putting aside the maniacs, this game got some really serious warning bells ringing well in advance.
As for me, my interest in this game that picked up a couple of weeks ago, has now come to a full stop. Because right now this is starting to look like another beta state Mortal Online debacle (Mortal..what?? would have probably been your first reaction, I reckon). Mostly just talk, talk, talk from the developer of greater things to come while they happily keep taking your money for the currently unfinished product. Only difference between the two being, this guy seems to be swimming in money that no one can hold him accountable for, while that Mortal Online tanked even on the investment front not two steps from its conception.
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A proud User of [[Adblock Plus]], to block out all the bullshit paid advertisements (also read as "game reviews") spam on mmorpg.com.
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I was banned for pointing out the obvious faults in a game 2 months before it released. Now after release, repeating the very same words from back then would be like preaching to the choir on this site.
One thing we know for sure about the game. The credit card feature works like a charm.
I have this picture of the game design on a white board in my mind.
A circle with dollar signs in it. Surrounded by other circles called features with arrows pointing to the big circle in the middle with dollar signs.
your favourite publisher´s shareholders must be really scared of such a successful crowdfunding campaign and others inevitably following in Chris Roberts steps?
Sorry, no more profits for the grey suits behind desks jiggling publisher shares at Wall Street, building swimming pools with microtransaction money.
What if others follow? Then it´s game over for their profitable vampire business. I know, it hurts. But all good things must end.
One thing we know for sure about the game. The credit card feature works like a charm.
I have this picture of the game design on a white board in my mind.
A circle with dollar signs in it. Surrounded by other circles called features with arrows pointing to the big circle in the middle with dollar signs.
your favourite publisher´s shareholders must be really scared of such a successful crowdfunding campaign and others inevitably following in Chris Roberts steps?
Sorry, no more profits for the grey suits behind desks jiggling publisher shares at Wall Street, building swimming pools with microtransaction money.
What if others follow? Then it´s game over for their profitable vampire business. I know, it hurts. But all good things must end.
So what your saying is is that CR has turned into a greedy, vampire publisher but without the normal checks that come with having to actually account for your spending to someone? Gotcha
your favourite publisher´s shareholders must be really scared of such a successful crowdfunding campaign and others inevitably following in Chris Roberts steps?
Sorry, no more profits for the grey suits behind desks jiggling publisher shares at Wall Street, building swimming pools with microtransaction money.
What if others follow? Then it´s game over for their profitable vampire business. I know, it hurts. But all good things must end.
Yes but what is thee?
At least The Repopulation is showing something. I am not sure how much was done without funding but they have a game released right now. Late Alpha but still it is showing something. They also dont throw a fund raiser out for millions, they had ones of 25 and 50K. Which actually added something.
Its OK to defend or bash crowdfunding I suppose but theyre not all created equal. The next game ot be released that was funded by a kickstarter will be the first and they have been talking about them for almost 5 years now.
The irony is most of these crowd funding guys were the guys in suits at one point now they have found out how to scam people out of money. Why do you think Brad McQuaid came crawling back out from under his rock?
One thing we know for sure about the game. The credit card feature works like a charm.
I have this picture of the game design on a white board in my mind.
A circle with dollar signs in it. Surrounded by other circles called features with arrows pointing to the big circle in the middle with dollar signs.
your favourite publisher´s shareholders must be really scared of such a successful crowdfunding campaign and others inevitably following in Chris Roberts steps?
Sorry, no more profits for the grey suits behind desks jiggling publisher shares at Wall Street, building swimming pools with microtransaction money.
What if others follow? Then it´s game over for their profitable vampire business. I know, it hurts. But all good things must end.
So what your saying is is that CR has turned into a greedy, vampire publisher but without the normal checks that come with having to actually account for your spending to someone? Gotcha
you take a calculator in your hand and tell me how there is a "profit" with 300 employees in 5 office locations working around the clock getting paid for 36 months and onwards ?
What the hell is your problem, GTA or SWTOR had a cost of 300-400 millon and 95% profits are feeding into shareholders, do you get the concept difference, maybe? But 70 million for a crowdfunded space sim, 70 millions that are going into the actual game getting made, is somehow "evil"?
What is your vested interest to demonize a crowdfunding success? Got some publisher shares that are not yielding profit so you need to bash CIG?
I will be avoiding this game like a plague. Every time I hear anything about Star Citizen, it is regarding a new ship being sold for thousands of dollars. Are there really that many people out there who are willing to drop enough to buy a decent used car on a few pixels?
I try not to care about how others spend money, but this is ridiculous. I really hope that this game is an outlier and this nonsense of needing $1,000's to pre-purchase items ends with this game. But I know it won't, a sucker is born every minute.
If this game fails to deliver, at least the chargeback threads will be interesting.
your favourite publisher´s shareholders must be really scared of such a successful crowdfunding campaign and others inevitably following in Chris Roberts steps?
Sorry, no more profits for the grey suits behind desks jiggling publisher shares at Wall Street, building swimming pools with microtransaction money.
What if others follow? Then it´s game over for their profitable vampire business. I know, it hurts. But all good things must end.
Yes but what is thee?
At least The Repopulation is showing something. I am not sure how much was done without funding but they have a game released right now. Late Alpha but still it is showing something. They also dont throw a fund raiser out for millions, they had ones of 25 and 50K. Which actually added something.
Its OK to defend or bash crowdfunding I suppose but theyre not all created equal. The next game ot be released that was funded by a kickstarter will be the first and they have been talking about them for almost 5 years now.
and what is this, is CIG not showing `SOMETHING`?
just keep up neglecting reality of monthly progress and 10 page status report of progress posted every month, even someone with half interest in SC knows that there is more than enough progress to show.
One thing we know for sure about the game. The credit card feature works like a charm.
I have this picture of the game design on a white board in my mind.
A circle with dollar signs in it. Surrounded by other circles called features with arrows pointing to the big circle in the middle with dollar signs.
your favourite publisher´s shareholders must be really scared of such a successful crowdfunding campaign and others inevitably following in Chris Roberts steps?
Sorry, no more profits for the grey suits behind desks jiggling publisher shares at Wall Street, building swimming pools with microtransaction money.
What if others follow? Then it´s game over for their profitable vampire business. I know, it hurts. But all good things must end.
So what your saying is is that CR has turned into a greedy, vampire publisher but without the normal checks that come with having to actually account for your spending to someone? Gotcha
you take a calculator in your hand and tell me how there is a "profit" with 300 employees in 5 office locations working around the clock getting paid for 36 months and onwards ?
What the hell is your problem, GTA or SWTOR had a cost of 300-400 millon and 95% profits are feeding into shareholders, do you get the concept difference, maybe? But 70 million for a crowdfunded space sim, 70 millions that are going into the actual game getting made, is somehow "evil"?
What is your vested interest to demonize a crowdfunding success? Got some publisher shares that are not yielding profit so you need to bash CIG?
70 millions that are going into the actual game getting made, is somehow "evil"?
When I first heard of SC and ED they were going to be the sandbox mmorpg of all sandbox mmorpgs. Now they are flight sims with modules to follow........at some point.
No one else finds it strange that the savior of the genre got the credit card cash shop working first?
So what your saying is is that CR has turned into a greedy, vampire publisher but without the normal checks that come with having to actually account for your spending to someone? Gotcha
you take a calculator in your hand and tell me how there is a "profit" with 300 employees in 5 office locations working around the clock getting paid for 36 months and onwards ?
What the hell is your problem, GTA or SWTOR had a cost of 300-400 millon and 95% profits are feeding into shareholders, do you get the concept difference, maybe? But 70 million for a crowdfunded space sim, 70 millions that are going into the actual game getting made, is somehow "evil"?
What is your vested interest to demonize a crowdfunding success? Got some publisher shares that are not yielding profit so you need to bash CIG?
Well since you seem to have access to his accounting ledge would you mind telling me how much he pays those employees? Can you show me where he allocates his money to? For how long? How about if a module misses his deadline? Does he put some aside for emergencies?
No? You can't tell me that? So perhaps you need to think before you type something that you have no way to back up.
also SWTOR Might have cost somewhere between 150-200 million. GTA 5 cost 265 million to develop and market so you seem to love exaggerating which makes any valid points you could make hard to believe.
I have no vested interest to demonize the game. Read some of my other posts where I say how I would love for this game to be the next big hit. perhaps it's you who is a little hurt that the potentially hundred of dollars you dropped in this game might go to crap when the hype kills this before its even left the gate?
$70 million * 4.5 = $315 million investor dollars, trying to make it sound as though SC is the underdog is easily invalidated using Roberts' own numbers from his KS pitch.
I will be avoiding this game like a plague. Every time I hear anything about Star Citizen, it is regarding a new ship being sold for thousands of dollars. Are there really that many people out there who are willing to drop enough to buy a decent used car on a few pixels?
I try not to care about how others spend money, but this is ridiculous. I really hope that this game is an outlier and this nonsense of needing $1,000's to pre-purchase items ends with this game. But I know it won't, a sucker is born every minute.
If this game fails to deliver, at least the chargeback threads will be interesting.
NEEDING thousands of dollars to pre-purchase ?You need 30 $ for a pledge package. Nothing more.
EVERYTHING else you can get in game for in game money in a moderate amount of time (talking days or at max weeks, not months here). There will be NOTHING in the game that is exclusively available for real world money - its one of the design principles of the game. You often can test out other ships than the one you have in your pledge package for free.
Others may have more ships ... they still can fly only one of them. Some may have bigger ships ... but in Star Citizen bigger is not better, it just means that the bigger ship has another role to fulfill compared to the smaller ship. And bigger ships are not efficient if you fly them solo ... they are supposed to be crewed by 3-25 players. Otherwise they are torpedo bomber bait (torpedo bombers being small player controlled ships) or solo capital ship pilots geting dragged out of their cockpits by player marines boarding the ship.
Yes, some people give quite a bit of money for this crowdfunding project. Because they see more than just this one game in the project. They hope for a change in the game industry. For some, thats worth quite a bit. Its their own personal money, to spend as they see fit. Personally I have one ship (Constellation) and one account ... and for me thats enough.
There are 704.000+ backers for this project. So the average pledge is below 100 bucks (that usually means a solo ship, various documents and music, a T-Shirt, some deco and flair items and a few months "Jump-Point" magazine subscription as the typical pledge).
You may have heard about "everyone" having to spend "thousands of dollars". Its just propaganda.
So what your saying is is that CR has turned into a greedy, vampire publisher but without the normal checks that come with having to actually account for your spending to someone? Gotcha
you take a calculator in your hand and tell me how there is a "profit" with 300 employees in 5 office locations working around the clock getting paid for 36 months and onwards ?
What the hell is your problem, GTA or SWTOR had a cost of 300-400 millon and 95% profits are feeding into shareholders, do you get the concept difference, maybe? But 70 million for a crowdfunded space sim, 70 millions that are going into the actual game getting made, is somehow "evil"?
What is your vested interest to demonize a crowdfunding success? Got some publisher shares that are not yielding profit so you need to bash CIG?
Well since you seem to have access to his accounting ledge would you mind telling me how much he pays those employees? Can you show me where he allocates his money to? For how long? How about if a module misses his deadline? Does he put some aside for emergencies?
No? You can't tell me that? So perhaps you need to think before you type something that you have no way to back up.
also SWTOR Might have cost somewhere between 150-200 million. GTA 5 cost 265 million to develop and market so you seem to love exaggerating which makes any valid points you could make hard to believe.
I have no vested interest to demonize the game. Read some of my other posts where I say how I would love for this game to be the next big hit. perhaps it's you who is a little hurt that the potentially hundred of dollars you dropped in this game might go to crap when the hype kills this before its even left the gate?
We can't back up any specific financial or accounting information, we can only assume.
Looking at the pretty decent quality of expertise with many industry veterans, even expertise from the movie industry. We can only assume that the pay is at least avarage in terms of what a game developer gets in the US, probably a bit better.
Naturally, I can't back this up with cold hard facts. However, this together with the overall attitude of the developers, the willing to crunch for each module release. The spirits seems to be pretty good overall, which probably wouldn't be the case if they were underpaid.
Of course there are profits, like with any business. We can only assume and hope that they're putting away for the future, since they plan to support and develop this game for a very long time.
I personally haven't backed or purchased anything Star Citizen yet, however, I do think that the people who are screaming "scam!" are overreacting a little bit. Cash shop with extremely expensive items isn't anything new, no you're not forced to buy any of these. These items will all be available in game comes live, you have no real advantage having these items besides time. You'll save some play time since you don't have to grind for the items ingame. Much like how many of these cash shop items have worked in the last couple of years, its nothing new.
I probably wont buy SC till we see the game actually launch. I'm interested in the whole package, not these random modules with small gameplay teases. However, people need to take a few steps back and stop taking everything to personal. I would never buy a ship for more than 50$, especially not if I can one day earn it ingame which is in my opinion part of the experience.
TL;DR Let people spend their money as they see fit.
Well since you seem to have access to his accounting ledge would you mind telling me how much he pays those employees?
--> Not hard to find out. Industry standard 50-70 k$ a year plus bonuses for the average industry specialist. CIG is also outsourcing quite a bit worldwide to develop (literally) 24/7 ... and they chose some of the best in the industry as subcontractors. Like Andy "Gollum" Serkis mocap/P-cap company. Well worth the extra money IMHO. Using temporary subcontractors is also a smart move, as you don't have to keep up a BIG core team 100 % of the time when you don't need them anymore (e.g. post launch).
Can you show me where he allocates his money to?
--> Without being a CIG insider i doubt someone can show you that.
How about if a module misses his deadline? Does he put some aside for emergencies?
--> Yes he has. And he talked about it several times before. Quite a bit of the extra money that came in in 2014 is set aside for emergencies, delay recovery and running the servers for the Persistent Universe for years to come.
** Snip **
GTA 5 cost 265 million to develop and market so you seem to love exaggerating which makes any valid points you could make hard to believe.
---> How much of that was advertising money ? 40 % 50 % ?
I have no vested interest to demonize the game. Read some of my other posts where I say how I would love for this game to be the next big hit.
--> Welcome to the club ;-)
perhaps it's you who is a little hurt that the potentially hundred of dollars you dropped in this game might go to crap when the hype
--> A hype NOT exactly generated by CIG themselves. Yes, they promote their game. But orders of magnitude less than EA or Ubisoft do with their typical AAA games (see my GTA example above). Its the media that generates the hype .... and a quite unusually high number of people on forums internet-wide putting out negative propaganda in unprecendented amounts and intensity (e.g. i have a certain indivual in mind that already got 9 posting clones deleted here on THIS forum alone).
Well since you seem to have access to his accounting ledge would you mind telling me how much he pays those employees?
--> Not hard to find out. Industry standard 50-70 k$ a year plus bonuses for the average industry specialist. CIG is also outsourcing quite a bit worldwide to develop (literally) 24/7 ... and they chose some of the best in the industry as subcontractors. Like Andy "Gollum" Serkis mocap/P-cap company. Well worth the extra money IMHO. Using temporary subcontractors is also a smart move, as you don't have to keep up a BIG core team 100 % of the time when you don't need them anymore (e.g. post launch).
Can you show me where he allocates his money to?
--> Without being a CIG insider i doubt someone can show you that.
How about if a module misses his deadline? Does he put some aside for emergencies?
--> Yes he has. And he talked about it several times before. Quite a bit of the extra money that came in in 2014 is set aside for emergencies, delay recovery and running the servers for the Persistent Universe for years to come.
** Snip **
GTA 5 cost 265 million to develop and market so you seem to love exaggerating which makes any valid points you could make hard to believe.
---> How much of that was advertising money ? 40 % 50 % ?
I have no vested interest to demonize the game. Read some of my other posts where I say how I would love for this game to be the next big hit.
--> Welcome to the club ;-)
perhaps it's you who is a little hurt that the potentially hundred of dollars you dropped in this game might go to crap when the hype
--> A hype NOT exactly generated by CIG themselves. Yes, they promote their game. But orders of magnitude less than EA or Ubisoft do with their typical AAA games (see my GTA example above). Its the media that generates the hype .... and a quite unusually high number of people on forums internet-wide putting out negative propaganda in unprecendented amounts and intensity (e.g. i have a certain indivual in mind that already got 9 posting clones deleted here on THIS forum alone).
kills this before its even left the gate?
--> Have fun
Your post does illustrate my point nicely. People who are throwing out numbers like they are hard facts are just in fact talking out their ass, both the negative and positive posters. They have some great people working for them so their salary would be higher but I bet the subcontractors are paid small amounts for their work, likely based on projects that are handed to them so using the industry standard probably isn't accurate. Unless we see the books we won't know if he is spending his money wisely.
i never said that CIG is generating the hype but it will bite a lot of people in the ass when they realize this isn't the game they bought into because the hype made it into some amazing, once in a lifetime game. Like I said before I will be donning my fireproof suit before wading into any forums.
I will be avoiding this game like a plague. Every time I hear anything about Star Citizen, it is regarding a new ship being sold for thousands of dollars. Are there really that many people out there who are willing to drop enough to buy a decent used car on a few pixels?
I try not to care about how others spend money, but this is ridiculous. I really hope that this game is an outlier and this nonsense of needing $1,000's to pre-purchase items ends with this game. But I know it won't, a sucker is born every minute.
If this game fails to deliver, at least the chargeback threads will be interesting.
NEEDING thousands of dollars to pre-purchase ?You need 30 $ for a pledge package. Nothing more.
EVERYTHING else you can get in game for in game money in a moderate amount of time (talking days or at max weeks, not months here). There will be NOTHING in the game that is exclusively available for real world money - its one of the design principles of the game. You often can test out other ships than the one you have in your pledge package for free.
Others may have more ships ... they still can fly only one of them. Some may have bigger ships ... but in Star Citizen bigger is not better, it just means that the bigger ship has another role to fulfill compared to the smaller ship. And bigger ships are not efficient if you fly them solo ... they are supposed to be crewed by 3-25 players. Otherwise they are torpedo bomber bait (torpedo bombers being small player controlled ships) or solo capital ship pilots geting dragged out of their cockpits by player marines boarding the ship.
Yes, some people give quite a bit of money for this crowdfunding project. Because they see more than just this one game in the project. They hope for a change in the game industry. For some, thats worth quite a bit. Its their own personal money, to spend as they see fit. Personally I have one ship (Constellation) and one account ... and for me thats enough.
There are 704.000+ backers for this project. So the average pledge is below 100 bucks (that usually means a solo ship, various documents and music, a T-Shirt, some deco and flair items and a few months "Jump-Point" magazine subscription as the typical pledge).
You may have heard about "everyone" having to spend "thousands of dollars". Its just propaganda.
Have fun
I appreciate you taking the time to explain the situation. And I understand that most don't buy the $1000 ships.
I guess I just have a problem with the approach. It just feels like a cash grab when they are selling such high priced items on pre-order. I also understand that there are people that a couple thousand dollars is nothing, but the recent news about this game has erased any interest I had in it. I hope the game is fun for those who are looking forward to it, I will not be preordering anything and will wait to see how this all plays out.
No matter what happens it will be interesting to watch. If is a success, expect to see more of this kind of monetization. If it is not, there will not be a massive crowd funding game for a while, or not, maybe I give gamers too much credit to be cautious with their money. I just worry that soon all games will have the Ferrari option, taking away one of my favorite things about gaming, that anyone can be someone. Gaming in a way levels the playing field between me and some trust fund kid who has an unlimited credit limit. I guess I should just give up the dream, gaming will soon be just like everything else, 1% will rule and the rest of us will huddle around in-game cities hoping for a glimpse of one of these wallet Gods. F2P games already do this $5 at a time (which is why I avoid them), Star Citizen is just taking it to another level.
If you want some numbers .... here is an indication of the size of the core team at CIG.
On LinkedIn CIG has 131 employees as LinkedIn members. If CIG is like my company, being on LinkedIn (and Facebook and Xing and ResearchGate) is kinda mandatory for every employee.
So my guess is 131 people currently in the CIG core team. Out of some 275 total people working on the project, including subcontractors (that is a number given by CIG in the past).
As CIG is also listed in the company size "51-200 people" that number fits nicely.
Now for the more speculative part. Lets assume everyone at CIG is well paid (for working 70 hours a week in crunch mode). Lets assume an average 70k$ a year salary per employee. That means the cost for the company is around 120 k$ per employee on average. That means the core team should cost them around 15,72 M$ a year if all these people are really well paid. That number includes overhead cost (so office rent etc. is already included). Add to this the subcontractors .... then its about 20 M$ a year according to my personal guestimate. With the current 68 M$ something currently collected the team can work for a bit more than 4 years in full, well paid crunch mode, considering that in 2012 and first half of 2013 the team size was significantly smaller and there were much less subcontractors.
Being a bit more realistic I guess the pay is somewhat less than the numbers given above.
Boy the gane is so overhyped, that is why IGN is writing about it every second day... hold on
...they aren't mentioning SC, they are writing about publisher advertised, investor financed shovelware all the time who give them paychecks to hype THEIR games. What a surprise.
where did you think are the 100+ million dollar marketing budgets of "triple A" going, huh? To your friendly game news sites, magazines, print and TV ads of course. Seen any of these, for the oh so overhyped Star Citizen?
Gamers are such easy prey for marketing departments, blogs and magazines, which (another surprise?) are financed by? whom? You guessed it, marketing depts. of publishers.
2015 I'll stop giving money to studios which are publisher owned or studios which are publically traded. No cent from me for profit vultures. Either crowdfund with intense community involvement exactly like SC does, or no money from me.
If you want some numbers .... here is an indication of the size of the core team at CIG.
On LinkedIn CIG has 131 employees as LinkedIn members. If CIG is like my company, being on LinkedIn (and Facebook and Xing and ResearchGate) is kinda mandatory for every employee.
So my guess is 131 people currently in the CIG core team. Out of some 275 total people working on the project, including subcontractors (that is a number given by CIG in the past).
As CIG is also listed in the company size "51-200 people" that number fits nicely.
Now for the more speculative part. Lets assume everyone at CIG is well paid (for working 70 hours a week in crunch mode). Lets assume an average 70k$ a year salary per employee. That means the cost for the company is around 120 k$ per employee on average. That means the core team should cost them around 15,72 M$ a year if all these people are really well paid. That number includes overhead cost (so office rent etc. is already included). Add to this the subcontractors .... then its about 20 M$ a year according to my personal guestimate. With the current 68 M$ something currently collected the team can work for a bit more than 4 years in full, well paid crunch mode, considering that in 2012 and first half of 2013 the team size was significantly smaller and there were much less subcontractors.
Being a bit more realistic I guess the pay is somewhat less than the numbers given above.
Have fun
Hey I appreciate the numbers, while all the salaries won't be completely accurate at least it is better then spouting garbage. I understand its an average but I bet some of those employees are interns who get paid crap and there are some artists, modellers, etc who might not make as much but still I can live with those figures.
Still wont get any money from me until I see a finished game and how in game currency works, if there is a cash shop and if there is will it be cosmetic items only which I can live with and how stable everything is at launch.
Comments
They raised their funds and changed the development of the game to account for the funds. Some of you see this as a good thing. But others have seen the broken promises. They have clearly let the crowd funding success go to their heads. They have already gone back on what they have said in order to secure more funding. To those who believe this funding won't continue after the game releases, or that there is no chance what so ever that this game won't be straight up P2W, you're just being naive.
I am just going to wait and see what pans out here.
OP I wouldnt have advised you or anyone to spend any money on this game as it currently stands. But since you already have done so, I can only caution you to not get suckered in by all this chris robert guy's sweet talk and extravagant promises and end up spending more than what you paid for the starterpack.
Reading the responses from the "FANS" in this thread and other threads regarding this game I can see that some people here are clearly bat shit crazy and too far gone from reality. So much that it seems like they are subconsciously fooling themselves into believing every last bit of PR spin (and then some) from this developer while knowingly/unknowingly blocking out all their faults. Even putting aside the maniacs, this game got some really serious warning bells ringing well in advance.
As for me, my interest in this game that picked up a couple of weeks ago, has now come to a full stop. Because right now this is starting to look like another beta state Mortal Online debacle (Mortal..what?? would have probably been your first reaction, I reckon). Mostly just talk, talk, talk from the developer of greater things to come while they happily keep taking your money for the currently unfinished product. Only difference between the two being, this guy seems to be swimming in money that no one can hold him accountable for, while that Mortal Online tanked even on the investment front not two steps from its conception.
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A proud User of [[Adblock Plus]], to block out all the bullshit paid advertisements (also read as "game reviews") spam on mmorpg.com.
----
Now after release, repeating the very same words from back then would be like preaching to the choir on this site.
Welcome to "The 'Verse !" :-)
Two websites I recommend after you got a starter pack:
http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
http://starcitizen.mojoworld.com/StarMap/
A LOT of information about the Star Citizen world. And give the dogfight module "Arena Commander V1.0" a spin over the new year celebrations.
On the official forum I recommend especially the "Ask a dev" section:
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/categories/ask-a-developer
If you look for other like-minded individuals take a look here:
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/categories/guilds-squadrons
If you have any special questions, PM me here.
Have fun
One thing we know for sure about the game. The credit card feature works like a charm.
I have this picture of the game design on a white board in my mind.
A circle with dollar signs in it. Surrounded by other circles called features with arrows pointing to the big circle in the middle with dollar signs.
You forgot the doctor evil picture drawn on the board as well
your favourite publisher´s shareholders must be really scared of such a successful crowdfunding campaign and others inevitably following in Chris Roberts steps?
Sorry, no more profits for the grey suits behind desks jiggling publisher shares at Wall Street, building swimming pools with microtransaction money.
What if others follow? Then it´s game over for their profitable vampire business. I know, it hurts. But all good things must end.
So what your saying is is that CR has turned into a greedy, vampire publisher but without the normal checks that come with having to actually account for your spending to someone? Gotcha
Yes but what is thee?
At least The Repopulation is showing something. I am not sure how much was done without funding but they have a game released right now. Late Alpha but still it is showing something. They also dont throw a fund raiser out for millions, they had ones of 25 and 50K. Which actually added something.
Its OK to defend or bash crowdfunding I suppose but theyre not all created equal. The next game ot be released that was funded by a kickstarter will be the first and they have been talking about them for almost 5 years now.
The irony is most of these crowd funding guys were the guys in suits at one point now they have found out how to scam people out of money. Why do you think Brad McQuaid came crawling back out from under his rock?
you take a calculator in your hand and tell me how there is a "profit" with 300 employees in 5 office locations working around the clock getting paid for 36 months and onwards ?
What the hell is your problem, GTA or SWTOR had a cost of 300-400 millon and 95% profits are feeding into shareholders, do you get the concept difference, maybe? But 70 million for a crowdfunded space sim, 70 millions that are going into the actual game getting made, is somehow "evil"?
What is your vested interest to demonize a crowdfunding success? Got some publisher shares that are not yielding profit so you need to bash CIG?
I will be avoiding this game like a plague. Every time I hear anything about Star Citizen, it is regarding a new ship being sold for thousands of dollars. Are there really that many people out there who are willing to drop enough to buy a decent used car on a few pixels?
I try not to care about how others spend money, but this is ridiculous. I really hope that this game is an outlier and this nonsense of needing $1,000's to pre-purchase items ends with this game. But I know it won't, a sucker is born every minute.
If this game fails to deliver, at least the chargeback threads will be interesting.
and what is this, is CIG not showing `SOMETHING`?
just keep up neglecting reality of monthly progress and 10 page status report of progress posted every month, even someone with half interest in SC knows that there is more than enough progress to show.
70 millions that are going into the actual game getting made, is somehow "evil"?
When I first heard of SC and ED they were going to be the sandbox mmorpg of all sandbox mmorpgs. Now they are flight sims with modules to follow........at some point.
No one else finds it strange that the savior of the genre got the credit card cash shop working first?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJJ9TcGxhNY&hd=1
and this is actual in engine game footage, not some fake rendered "future vision"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r86ymeN5Rw0&hd=1
the combat module Arena Commander 1.0, next up FPS module
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cir3w-wIx9U&hd=1
Well since you seem to have access to his accounting ledge would you mind telling me how much he pays those employees? Can you show me where he allocates his money to? For how long? How about if a module misses his deadline? Does he put some aside for emergencies?
No? You can't tell me that? So perhaps you need to think before you type something that you have no way to back up.
also SWTOR Might have cost somewhere between 150-200 million. GTA 5 cost 265 million to develop and market so you seem to love exaggerating which makes any valid points you could make hard to believe.
I have no vested interest to demonize the game. Read some of my other posts where I say how I would love for this game to be the next big hit. perhaps it's you who is a little hurt that the potentially hundred of dollars you dropped in this game might go to crap when the hype kills this before its even left the gate?
NEEDING thousands of dollars to pre-purchase ?You need 30 $ for a pledge package. Nothing more.
EVERYTHING else you can get in game for in game money in a moderate amount of time (talking days or at max weeks, not months here). There will be NOTHING in the game that is exclusively available for real world money - its one of the design principles of the game. You often can test out other ships than the one you have in your pledge package for free.
Others may have more ships ... they still can fly only one of them. Some may have bigger ships ... but in Star Citizen bigger is not better, it just means that the bigger ship has another role to fulfill compared to the smaller ship. And bigger ships are not efficient if you fly them solo ... they are supposed to be crewed by 3-25 players. Otherwise they are torpedo bomber bait (torpedo bombers being small player controlled ships) or solo capital ship pilots geting dragged out of their cockpits by player marines boarding the ship.
Yes, some people give quite a bit of money for this crowdfunding project. Because they see more than just this one game in the project. They hope for a change in the game industry. For some, thats worth quite a bit. Its their own personal money, to spend as they see fit. Personally I have one ship (Constellation) and one account ... and for me thats enough.
There are 704.000+ backers for this project. So the average pledge is below 100 bucks (that usually means a solo ship, various documents and music, a T-Shirt, some deco and flair items and a few months "Jump-Point" magazine subscription as the typical pledge).
You may have heard about "everyone" having to spend "thousands of dollars". Its just propaganda.
Have fun
Personally I feel you should stay in AA if you cannot be bothered to do your own research!
Asbo
We can't back up any specific financial or accounting information, we can only assume.
Looking at the pretty decent quality of expertise with many industry veterans, even expertise from the movie industry. We can only assume that the pay is at least avarage in terms of what a game developer gets in the US, probably a bit better.
Naturally, I can't back this up with cold hard facts. However, this together with the overall attitude of the developers, the willing to crunch for each module release. The spirits seems to be pretty good overall, which probably wouldn't be the case if they were underpaid.
Of course there are profits, like with any business. We can only assume and hope that they're putting away for the future, since they plan to support and develop this game for a very long time.
I personally haven't backed or purchased anything Star Citizen yet, however, I do think that the people who are screaming "scam!" are overreacting a little bit. Cash shop with extremely expensive items isn't anything new, no you're not forced to buy any of these. These items will all be available in game comes live, you have no real advantage having these items besides time. You'll save some play time since you don't have to grind for the items ingame. Much like how many of these cash shop items have worked in the last couple of years, its nothing new.
I probably wont buy SC till we see the game actually launch. I'm interested in the whole package, not these random modules with small gameplay teases. However, people need to take a few steps back and stop taking everything to personal. I would never buy a ship for more than 50$, especially not if I can one day earn it ingame which is in my opinion part of the experience.
TL;DR Let people spend their money as they see fit.
Tweet at me - Visit my website
--> Yes he has. And he talked about it several times before. Quite a bit of the extra money that came in in 2014 is set aside for emergencies, delay recovery and running the servers for the Persistent Universe for years to come.
--> Have fun
Your post does illustrate my point nicely. People who are throwing out numbers like they are hard facts are just in fact talking out their ass, both the negative and positive posters. They have some great people working for them so their salary would be higher but I bet the subcontractors are paid small amounts for their work, likely based on projects that are handed to them so using the industry standard probably isn't accurate. Unless we see the books we won't know if he is spending his money wisely.
i never said that CIG is generating the hype but it will bite a lot of people in the ass when they realize this isn't the game they bought into because the hype made it into some amazing, once in a lifetime game. Like I said before I will be donning my fireproof suit before wading into any forums.
I appreciate you taking the time to explain the situation. And I understand that most don't buy the $1000 ships.
I guess I just have a problem with the approach. It just feels like a cash grab when they are selling such high priced items on pre-order. I also understand that there are people that a couple thousand dollars is nothing, but the recent news about this game has erased any interest I had in it. I hope the game is fun for those who are looking forward to it, I will not be preordering anything and will wait to see how this all plays out.
No matter what happens it will be interesting to watch. If is a success, expect to see more of this kind of monetization. If it is not, there will not be a massive crowd funding game for a while, or not, maybe I give gamers too much credit to be cautious with their money. I just worry that soon all games will have the Ferrari option, taking away one of my favorite things about gaming, that anyone can be someone. Gaming in a way levels the playing field between me and some trust fund kid who has an unlimited credit limit. I guess I should just give up the dream, gaming will soon be just like everything else, 1% will rule and the rest of us will huddle around in-game cities hoping for a glimpse of one of these wallet Gods. F2P games already do this $5 at a time (which is why I avoid them), Star Citizen is just taking it to another level.
@Kefo
If you want some numbers .... here is an indication of the size of the core team at CIG.
On LinkedIn CIG has 131 employees as LinkedIn members. If CIG is like my company, being on LinkedIn (and Facebook and Xing and ResearchGate) is kinda mandatory for every employee.
So my guess is 131 people currently in the CIG core team. Out of some 275 total people working on the project, including subcontractors (that is a number given by CIG in the past).
As CIG is also listed in the company size "51-200 people" that number fits nicely.
Now for the more speculative part. Lets assume everyone at CIG is well paid (for working 70 hours a week in crunch mode). Lets assume an average 70k$ a year salary per employee. That means the cost for the company is around 120 k$ per employee on average. That means the core team should cost them around 15,72 M$ a year if all these people are really well paid. That number includes overhead cost (so office rent etc. is already included). Add to this the subcontractors .... then its about 20 M$ a year according to my personal guestimate. With the current 68 M$ something currently collected the team can work for a bit more than 4 years in full, well paid crunch mode, considering that in 2012 and first half of 2013 the team size was significantly smaller and there were much less subcontractors.
Being a bit more realistic I guess the pay is somewhat less than the numbers given above.
Have fun
Well its why dont go buy this util release product
*Every week new paid ship
i not fanboy or hater
Actual i enjoy Elite as enjoy X-rebirth and others space sim
but dont pay anymore for "alphas" cmon guys stop support this "model"
Boy the gane is so overhyped, that is why IGN is writing about it every second day... hold on
...they aren't mentioning SC, they are writing about publisher advertised, investor financed shovelware all the time who give them paychecks to hype THEIR games. What a surprise.
where did you think are the 100+ million dollar marketing budgets of "triple A" going, huh? To your friendly game news sites, magazines, print and TV ads of course. Seen any of these, for the oh so overhyped Star Citizen?
Gamers are such easy prey for marketing departments, blogs and magazines, which (another surprise?) are financed by? whom? You guessed it, marketing depts. of publishers.
2015 I'll stop giving money to studios which are publisher owned or studios which are publically traded. No cent from me for profit vultures. Either crowdfund with intense community involvement exactly like SC does, or no money from me.
Hey I appreciate the numbers, while all the salaries won't be completely accurate at least it is better then spouting garbage. I understand its an average but I bet some of those employees are interns who get paid crap and there are some artists, modellers, etc who might not make as much but still I can live with those figures.
Still wont get any money from me until I see a finished game and how in game currency works, if there is a cash shop and if there is will it be cosmetic items only which I can live with and how stable everything is at launch.