Boy the gane is so overhyped, that is why IGN is writing about it every second day... hold on
...they aren't mentioning SC, they are writing about publisher advertised, investor financed shovelware all the time who give them paychecks to hype THEIR games. What a surprise.
where did you think are the 100+ million dollar marketing budgets of "triple A" going, huh? To your friendly game news sites, magazines, print and TV ads of course. Seen any of these, for the oh so overhyped Star Citizen?
Gamers are such easy prey for marketing departments, blogs and magazines, which (another surprise?) are financed by? whom? You guessed it, marketing depts. of publishers.
2015 I'll stop giving money to studios which are publisher owned or studios which are publically traded. No cent from me for profit vultures. Either crowdfund with intense community involvement exactly like SC does, or no money from me.
This game doesn't need any major gaming sites to be writing about it every other day. Star Citizen has more then enough rabid fans who will say anything to keep the hype train moving at full speed ahead. [mod edit] the forums will be a very interesting place once the train hits the end of the line. Will probably be more interesting then the game while they iron out launch bugs and issues lol.
As for myself I will continue to support both publisher funded and indie devs based on past experiences with them, and/or how the finished game turns out.
All the make believe numbers getting thrown around are just that..make believe. There are some educated guesses maybe, and some based on what developers claimed but I havent seen any company open the books completely. But even if the big numbers are accurate, the majority of those amounts are going into advertising and voice over crap and all sorts of other shit that a 'indie' company shouldnt even think about.
Thats the disconnect. And the problem. This guy started out with a dream (wet pipe dream) and it actually started to come true, so what happenes? The same thing that always happens GREED set in. It stopped being about the game and became more about whatthey could get for what and setting records for something no one really cares about.
As for what Star Citizen shows, not a hell of a lot. What is it a flight simulator thing? Nothing remotely resembling an MMO world or universe.
Even the ships theyre selling anyone seen them in a 3D rendered world? Or are they just jpegs?
ALL kickstarter MMOs should be taken with a grain of salt, and this one especially. Because it changes and changes. THATS why there are ten pages of updates because they have to spin a good story as to why theyre not doing what they said theyre doing despite raising about 5 times what their wildest dreams imagined two years ago.
This game has a lot of white knight fans (probably where some of the 70 million is going to) on these forums, just like every other game But the more it drags out the worse it looks. Especially when all we have seen the past year have been ever increasing ship prices and nothing in the way of 'real' content.
All the make believe numbers getting thrown around are just that..make believe. There are some educated guesses maybe, and some based on what developers claimed but I havent seen any company open the books completely. But even if the big numbers are accurate, the majority of those amounts are going into advertising
--> Hardly. CIG marketing/advertising department is - if I remember correctly - one person strong.
and voice over crap
--> That "voice over crap" ... maybe you mean an orchestral soundtrack? Or mo-cap/P-cap to the standard of "Gollum" and "Planet of the Apes" ? So far no voice actors have been named for SC, so i guess you do not mean the actual voice-over "crapping" itself.
and all sorts of other shit that a 'indie' company shouldnt even think about.
---> CIG is not your average "indie" company. And Star Citizen not your average indie project. They want to raise the bar for what a (PC) game can do. That "voice over crap" is an integral part of it. And always was.
Thats the disconnect. And the problem. This guy started out with a dream (wet pipe dream) and it actually started to come true, so what happenes?
--> "This guy" is methodically making the dream come true.
The same thing that always happens GREED set in. It stopped being about the game and became more about whatthey could get for what and setting records for something no one really cares about.
--> Most of those 704.000 backers DO care exactly about that. Don't believe me ? Ask the backers yourself on the official forums. And as it is those backers who pay for the game, CIG is doing what the backers want them to do.
As for what Star Citizen shows, not a hell of a lot. What is it a flight simulator thing? Nothing remotely resembling an MMO world or universe.
--> Testing of the persistent universe module has already started for a few select backers (picked at random, those who were online and active on the forums at a certain time and responded to a dev request).
--> The flight simulator part has been updated to Version 1.0 before X-Mas.
--> And if you know some tricks you can already try out the FPS combat (on a space platform with a pistol sidearm).
Even the ships theyre selling anyone seen them in a 3D rendered world? Or are they just jpegs?
--> You don't look much at player Youtube videos, do you ? Hundreds of people have shown off their ships ... in 3D, in the hangar, inside the ships, in flight, in combat. No, they are not only jpegs. And we are not talking about prerendered CIG advertising videos, we are talking about in game engine (pre-Alpha version) videos made by players.
ALL kickstarter MMOs should be taken with a grain of salt, and this one especially. Because it changes and changes. THATS why there are ten pages of updates because they have to spin a good story as to why theyre not doing what they said theyre doing despite raising about 5 times what their wildest dreams imagined two years ago.
--> You have never looked at any of these update reports, that much is obvious.
This game has a lot of white knight fans (probably where some of the 70 million is going to) on these forums, just like every other game But the more it drags out the worse it looks.
--> This game is following the timeline pretty much, if one does listen to the dev announcements. The schedule given in late 2012 has been adapted a bit because there is so much more funds available than expected. An up to date schedule made by players can be found here:http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Anticipated_Release_Schedule
Especially when all we have seen the past year have been ever increasing ship prices and nothing in the way of 'real' content.
All the make believe numbers getting thrown around are just that..make believe. There are some educated guesses maybe, and some based on what developers claimed but I havent seen any company open the books completely. But even if the big numbers are accurate, the majority of those amounts are going into advertising and voice over crap and all sorts of other shit that a 'indie' company shouldnt even think about.
Lol, so first you accuse everyone of using "make believe" numbers (which are in fact, based on knowledge of the number of employees compared with the going rate for salary in the industry), and then you go and make a COMPLETELTY baseless accusation that "the majority of those amounts are going into advertising and voice over".
So why don't you tell us where you got that "insider" information from?
We're waiting....
Or how about we just assume that you're making it up(safe assumption, wouldn't you say?), and get back to using facts. Like this one for instance, showing the way they plan on splitting every dollar from each sale of the retail game, versus the normal industry standard.
Taken from a SXSW presentation Chris Roberts gave.
But according to the fancy chart above They have roughly 56-58 million 'free and clear' development money. So what has it gotten people? That is a very simple question.
It's a very simple question with a very simple answer. One that people like you choose to ignore time and time again. Games don't just blink into existence. You can't just insert $70 million into a vending machine and have a AAA MMO with a 50+ hour branching single player drop into your lap. I didn't think that was a very complicated concept, but apparently for some, it is.
Destiny, for instance, started development in 2009. And that's with a fully spun up studio that had their budget from day one. And look how devoid of content that game is. World of Warcraft was in development for 4-5 years. And that was much smaller in scope.
And yet, here we are, on year two of development for Star Citizen. Only one of those years where you could say CIG was running at decent capacitity. The first year they were still doing the majority of their hiring and looking for studio space.
But still, people like you still can't seem to comprehend why the game isn't finished yet.
Ahh tje white knights are strong with this game. It will get worse as tiem goes by.
--> Because some people are using .. you know ... FACTS ?! ;-)(which you can find yourself with ... you know .. Google).
So of the 70 million they have raised how much do you think they have left?
--> IMHO 50ish million. But thats a personal opinion only.
And whay have they been doing with what they have spent?
---> According to your posts you HAVE read their progress reports (although you dismissed them). You should know. In exquisite detail. Let me sum it up for you again: A LOT. More details and links to be found throughout the threads here on this forum.
But according to the fancy chart above They have roughly 56-58 million 'free and clear' development money. So what has it gotten people? That is a very simple question.
--> And a very simple answer: A LOT already and EVEN MORE to come. Let me be as specific and detailed as you are in your posts ;-) so look here for more details http://starcitizen.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
Like I said go to Steam and you can download a working game right now in The Repopulation.
--> Repopulation is a nice game, especially for a Star Wars Galaxies vet like me. In scope and technical standard far less ambitious than Star Citizen, but a promising candidate for an old-style-old-tech sandbox.
Where can I go right now 70 million in and see what Old Age Citizen is producing?
LMAO the two guys (you all should hook up with DMKAno the Archeage White knight and sit at the round table some time)
No one said anything about fully formed MMO. How about something beyond a flight simulator some ambitious guy could build in his basement.
When youre "Indie" and have no one to answer to and call your own shots that should really speed everything up and also make everything cheaper and more streamlined. So youre still using developer excuses as to why this game doesnt really show anything.
As far as Repop being small in scope and 'ambition'. WOW really? At least they have delivered SOMETHING. That might be Senior Citizens problem they dont know what the hell theyre doing so they keep collecting money and feeding people more stuff to READ (rather than play/test) and they dont have shit to show for it. They have had 'full' development on that game maybe 3 years, but they had dreams and a plan a year or so before that. Not dissimilar from Senior Citizen (which also got into 'full' development in 2011) on a lot less money. So theyre two games to compare side by side actually.
Star Citizen doesnt probably wont be released (if ever) for close to two more years (and I am sure they hope for another 50 million in contributions before then) so that means you in 5 years and almost 120 million. It better be a game that delivers something really special, as in better than any AAA MMO over the past decade for that budget.
Either way not worth talking about this game isnt close to ready (if t ever will be) just pointing out that it has a lot of talk and backers behind it with very little to show for all the hype. When they get an actual game world to play in and all these ships they have nice pictures of are actually flying around in it then we might be able to come back to it.
LMAO the two guys (you all should hook up with DMKAno the Archeage White knight and sit at the round table some time)
--> You mean you don't like people that answer your rhetoric with some facts ? Too bad.
No one said anything about fully formed MMO. How about something beyond a flight simulator some ambitious guy could build in his basement.
--> How about you read the previous posts in this and other threads ? E.g. those that mention that testing of the presistent universe has already begun for a limited set of backers picked at random.
--> And if you know a guy that can build something like Arena Commander V1.0 alone in his basement ... point him at the gaming industry. He will make a fortune, as he replaces a few dozen people.
When youre "Indie" and have no one to answer to and call your own shots that should really speed everything up and also make everything cheaper and more streamlined. So youre still using developer excuses as to why this game doesnt really show anything.
--> Nope, it is you that ignores all that is posted ... that this game has already a lot to show in pre-feature-complete Alpha and every month more comes out .. and i mean gameplay, not ship pictures.
As far as Repop being small in scope and 'ambition'. WOW really? At least they have delivered SOMETHING.
--> Like Star Citizen. I play both games, remember. I KNOW what Repopulation has and has not. Its a nice early access game. But its like the 10 year old Star Wars Galaxies. All the good things. All the bad things. And the tech level is, as i said, a decade behind whats possible.
That might be Senior Citizens problem they dont know what the hell theyre doing
--> Interesting that most of the gaming press does NOT share your opinion.
so they keep collecting money and feeding people more stuff to READ (rather than play/test)
--> Again, you ignore most that is being posted. Tenthousands of people are playtesting EVERY SINGLE DAY. And giving detailed feedback on the forums.
and they dont have shit to show for it.
--> Others make complete retail games out of this "shit" as you call it .....
They have had 'full' development on that game maybe 3 years, but they had dreams and a plan a year or so before that.
--> For Star Citizen: November 2012, with a small team (less than 10, more like 3) preparing the start of the crowdfunding since summer 2012.
Not dissimilar from Senior Citizen (which also got into 'full' development in 2011)
--> Both "2011" and "full" is incorrect. Check your data. But you most likely invented that anyway.
on a lot less money. So theyre two games to compare side by side actually.
Star Citizen doesnt probably wont be released (if ever) for close to two more years
(and I am sure they hope for another 50 million in contributions before then) so that means you in 5 years and almost 120 million. It better be a game that delivers something really special,
--> Thats what we all hope for. That is what we backers give the team time and money for.
as in better than any AAA MMO over the past decade for that budget.
Either way not worth talking about this game
--> Interesting. You talk a lot about a game you don't like, which you never played and obviously have no knowledge about.
isnt close to ready (if t ever will be) just pointing out that it has a lot of talk and backers behind it with very little to show for all the hype.
--> Just because you do not take the time to find out what is exisiting (we already know you ignore player youtube videos of SC, you don't read any progress reports, you don't check out the website and forums, you had no idea that the ships are more than jpegs, you have no inkling about early testing of FPS and PE module etc.) does not mean that there is "very little to show" ... it just means that you are too lazy to find out.
When they get an actual game world to play in and all these ships they have nice pictures of are actually flying around in it then we might be able to come back to it.
Playing ArcheAge atm and all they want is my money.
Now here, in SC a new 2500.-$ ship is announced.
It has "modules" to play.
I better dont step into this game, except you gimme some reasons.
Can i fully play it with max 20.-€ subscribtion a month ?
Shoot!
P2P games are the only true CC games - as without a credit card (or another type of online payment) you can't even play them for 1 second. And on top of paying a monthly fee you also have to buy the game for usually $60 upfront.
F2P games might want you to pay for caah shop items - but you don't ever have to give them a single cent and there is zero upront cost.
So which ones are really CC games?
It depends how you look at it. You're paying a set fee with a monthly sub whereas you may need to purchase (just as an example) ship fuel or wait 8 weeks to get it in game, therefore if you want to actually play the game, you need to purchase items, to compete in PVP you need to purchase ships, to get into a guild you need to purchase skill sets/unlocks, all which maybe in the game but are restricted to an extent in which you're impeded so much you need to shell out cash.
The game looks great, I'm a huge Sci-Fi lover and can't wait to try it, however, when I see ships going for $2500, I'm just having a hard time seeing how this is going to be available in game without requiring large amounts of cash at certain steps to achieve it in a lifetime.
It depends how you look at it. You're paying a set fee with a monthly sub
--> no monthly fee in SC.
whereas you may need to purchase (just as an example) ship fuel
--> you have to buy fuel, for a very small amount of in game money. There will never be anything like "premium fuel or ammo" available for real world money only. Thats a SC design principle.
or wait 8 weeks to get it in game,
--> purchases will - as far as we know - be available instantly.
therefore if you want to actually play the game, you need to purchase items, to compete in PVP you need to purchase ships, to get into a guild you need to purchase skill sets/unlocks, all which maybe in the game but are restricted to an extent in which you're impeded so much you need to shell out cash.
--> Backers have made some calculations based on dev statements. Even high end solo ships and equipment will at most cost you some two weeks of non hardcore gameplay (7-30 hours of gameplay).
The game looks great, I'm a huge Sci-Fi lover and can't wait to try it, however, when I see ships going for $2500, I'm just having a hard time seeing how this is going to be available in game without requiring large amounts of cash at certain steps to achieve it in a lifetime.
--> Those ships are for a crew of 25 players. One pilot alone cannot run them effectively. He would be pulled out of his seat by a player marine boarding party pretty quickly. Those 25 players together would need about two weeks of non hardcore gameplay to be able to buy such a destroyer (approx. 55 hours each).
LMAO the two guys (you all should hook up with DMKAno the Archeage White knight and sit at the round table some time)
Of course. Dismiss anyone who doesn't agree with you and uses facts to dispute your unfounded claims as "white knights". All I'm hearing from you is "i have no way of backing my argument so I need to lash out".
Originally posted by rodarin
No one said anything about fully formed MMO. How about something beyond a flight simulator some ambitious guy could build in his basement.
Lol...is that how you think development works? Hold on, let me go build a skyscraper, but I'm going to build fully functioning rooms one at a time starting from the top floor.
Originally posted by rodarin
When youre "Indie" and have no one to answer to and call your own shots that should really speed everything up and also make everything cheaper and more streamlined. So youre still using developer excuses as to why this game doesnt really show anything.
Is this your informed opinion from your decades of large scale game development producing?
It depends how you look at it. You're paying a set fee with a monthly sub
--> no monthly fee in SC.
whereas you may need to purchase (just as an example) ship fuel
--> you have to buy fuel, for a very small amount of in game money. There will never be anything like "premium fuel or ammo" available for real world money only. Thats a SC design principle.
or wait 8 weeks to get it in game,
--> purchases will - as far as we know - be available instantly.
therefore if you want to actually play the game, you need to purchase items, to compete in PVP you need to purchase ships, to get into a guild you need to purchase skill sets/unlocks, all which maybe in the game but are restricted to an extent in which you're impeded so much you need to shell out cash.
--> Backers have made some calculations based on dev statements. Even high end solo ships and equipment will at most cost you some two weeks of non hardcore gameplay (7-30 hours of gameplay).
The game looks great, I'm a huge Sci-Fi lover and can't wait to try it, however, when I see ships going for $2500, I'm just having a hard time seeing how this is going to be available in game without requiring large amounts of cash at certain steps to achieve it in a lifetime.
--> Those ships are for a crew of 25 players. One pilot alone cannot run them effectively. He would be pulled out of his seat by a player marine boarding party pretty quickly. Those 25 players together would need about two weeks of non hardcore gameplay to be able to buy such a destroyer (approx. 55 hours each).
--> Have fun
While I understand you are very versed in the information provided by the developer and that you are following the development of this game very closely, the fact that you used the term "There will never be anything like........" tells me you are not being realistic with your expectations. I'm not saying it will happen, but it's always safer to quote what the developer said rather than to re interpret it, by adding your own absolutes. The ONLY "never" that is appropriate for a game in development is "Never say never".
Also, you talk about your strategies where whales lose their advantages or that the whale's advantage is meaningless. Players in anticipation of a game in development will always challenge the question about P2W elements with the following arguments....(Almost without exception)
1. The Whale is always alone
2. The Whale is incompetent
3. The Whale sits idly by while the grinder is closing the gap between them.
All 3 strategies fail. What ever strategies or scenarios you can think of that puts you winning over the spenders, the spenders have thought of that too. So have the developers who want the spenders to keep spending. Whales don't work alone, they know how to play the game as good as anyone else and they are constantly leveraging their early advantage to increase the distance of the gap between themselves and those who don't spend.
While I understand you are very versed in the information provided by the developer and that you are following the development of this game very closely, the fact that you used the term "There will never be anything like........" tells me you are not being realistic with your expectations. I'm not saying it will happen, but it's always safer to quote what the developer said rather than to re interpret it, by adding your own absolutes. The ONLY "never" that is appropriate for a game in development is "Never say never".
Also, you talk about your strategies where whales lose their advantages or that the whale's advantage is meaningless. Players in anticipation of a game in development will always challenge the question about P2W elements with the following arguments....(Almost without exception)
1. The Whale is always alone
2. The Whale is incompetent
3. The Whale sits idly by while the grinder is closing the gap between them.
All 3 strategies fail. What ever strategies or scenarios you can think of that puts you winning over the spenders, the spenders have thought of that too. So have the developers who want the spenders to keep spending. Whales don't work alone, they know how to play the game as good as anyone else and they are constantly leveraging their early advantage to increase the distance of the gap between themselves and those who don't spend.
GeezerGamer ... it was not me that said this. It was the lead designer of the game itself, Chris Roberts. If anyone can speak in absolutes, its him.
Read this (at least .. the english part of it, the German part is just an explanation by a gaming journalist):
I think you will find Point 3 and 4 quite illuminating.
CIG is aware of the strategies of those with too much money ("whales") and too much time. While you cannot entirely negate any bonuses gained, i think the 4 rules stated in this clarification are a good base to form a compromise that allows ALL gaming styles to flourish, be it hardcore gamer or casual gamer.
CIG and Chris Roberts want people first and foremost (Rule 1, remember ;-) ?) "to have fun in gameplay".
While they DO need money to make and run this game, money is NOT the main goal. It is a means to achieve an end. And I think from the way he put down his 4 rules, i - personally - doubt that he will change them come game launch, certainly not for money.
While I understand you are very versed in the information provided by the developer and that you are following the development of this game very closely, the fact that you used the term "There will never be anything like........" tells me you are not being realistic with your expectations. I'm not saying it will happen, but it's always safer to quote what the developer said rather than to re interpret it, by adding your own absolutes. The ONLY "never" that is appropriate for a game in development is "Never say never".
Also, you talk about your strategies where whales lose their advantages or that the whale's advantage is meaningless. Players in anticipation of a game in development will always challenge the question about P2W elements with the following arguments....(Almost without exception)
1. The Whale is always alone
2. The Whale is incompetent
3. The Whale sits idly by while the grinder is closing the gap between them.
All 3 strategies fail. What ever strategies or scenarios you can think of that puts you winning over the spenders, the spenders have thought of that too. So have the developers who want the spenders to keep spending. Whales don't work alone, they know how to play the game as good as anyone else and they are constantly leveraging their early advantage to increase the distance of the gap between themselves and those who don't spend.
GeezerGamer ... it was not me that said this. It was the lead designer of the game itself, Chris Roberts. If anyone can speak in absolutes, its him.
Read this (at least .. the english part of it, the German part is just an explanation by a gaming journalist):
I think you will find Point 3 and 4 quite illuminating.
CIG is aware of the strategies of those with too much money ("whales") and too much time. While you cannot entirely negate any bonuses gained, i think the 4 rules stated in this clarification are a good base to form a compromise that allows ALL gaming styles to flourish, be it hardcore gamer or casual gamer.
CIG and Chris Roberts want people first and foremost (Rule 1, remember ;-) ?) "to have fun in gameplay".
While they DO need money to make and run this game, money is NOT the main goal. It is a means to achieve an end. And I think from the way he put down his 4 rules, i - personally - doubt that he will change them come game launch, certainly not for money.
Have fun
Your faith in that man is nice and all but at what point does what he say become lip service for the reality that he continues to release new ships for ever increasing prices and continues to push new promises and expand the scope of the project? He could have built and launched the game he promised in kickstarter sometime ago but instead he decided to endless accept more and more money and push the release date of the game out ever farther. And why not? The promise of the game is probably going to make him a lot more money than trying to maintain the hype after launch when the reality of it sets in for players. Does that really sound like a person who is more concerned about your enjoyment than his money to you?
Your faith in that man is nice and all but at what point does what he say become lip service for the reality that he continues to release new ships for ever increasing prices and continues to push new promises and expand the scope of the project? He could have built and launched the game he promised in kickstarter sometime ago but instead he decided to endless accept more and more money and push the release date of the game out ever farther. And why not? The promise of the game is probably going to make him a lot more money than trying to maintain the hype after launch when the reality of it sets in for players. Does that really sound like a person who is more concerned about your enjoyment than his money to you?
Let me tell you a tale of two men.
First is Chris Roberts, whom i met at Gamescon 2014. I knew about his work and career. I knew about his recent projects. I supported his recent projects and I am a fan of his previous work. Do I think he will betray all his fans and co-workers for money ? No.
The second one is Buzz Aldrin, whom i met at a conference many years ago. I knew about his work and career. I knew about his recent projects. I supported his recent projects and I am a fan of his previous work. Do i think he betrayed everyone by not landing on the moon and doing it all in a darkened studio under the direction of Stanley Kubrik ? No.
Why do i think so ? Because i met those two men. Both are engineers in the best sense of the word. They make things happen. Because something is driving those two men. I can see it, i can sense it.
So i support them and their ideas.
Have fun
PS:
What was one of the first thoughts of Buzz Aldrin as he made his first steps on the moon ? That he won a bet about the best way to move around on the moon. ;-)
Your faith in that man is nice and all but at what point does what he say become lip service for the reality that he continues to release new ships for ever increasing prices and continues to push new promises and expand the scope of the project? He could have built and launched the game he promised in kickstarter sometime ago but instead he decided to endless accept more and more money and push the release date of the game out ever farther. And why not? The promise of the game is probably going to make him a lot more money than trying to maintain the hype after launch when the reality of it sets in for players. Does that really sound like a person who is more concerned about your enjoyment than his money to you?
Let me tell you a tale of two men.
First is Chris Roberts, whom i met at Gamescon 2014. I knew about his work and career. I knew about his recent projects. I supported his recent projects and I am a fan of his previous work. Do I think he will betray all his fans and co-workers for money ? No.
The second one is Buzz Aldrin, whom i met at a conference many years ago. I knew about his work and career. I knew about his recent projects. I supported his recent projects and I am a fan of his previous work. Do i think he betrayed everyone by not landing on the moon and doing it all in a darkened studio under the direction of Stanley Kubrik ? No.
Why do i think so ? Because i met those two men. Both are engineers in the best sense of the word. They make things happen. Because something is driving those two men. I can see it, i can sense it.
So i support them and their ideas.
Have fun
PS:
What was one of the first thoughts of Buzz Aldrin as he made his first steps on the moon ? That he won a bet about the best way to move around on the moon. ;-)
Buzz Aldrin's actions both as a astronaut and what he did with that fame he earned afterwards speak for themselves.
What does Chris Robert's actions endlessly finding new ways to increase his funding and pushing the release date of the game out ever farther and farther to add new features as long as the money keeps rolling in say about the man? Maybe I'm wrong and maybe Chris Robert's is just caught up in the moment of having near endless resources to build the game he always wanted to build but if that's the case than rather than being deliberately greedy he has given up all control over his project to rabid fanboys with disposable income. Neither scenario is particularly appealing to me.
i always find it interesting when people are worried about not seeing a game there are plenty of others that throw the modules at these worries
these modules are just that - they are not connected to each other in any way - let me put this in caps THERE IS NO GAME
period
as yet
i'm certainly hoping there will be a game and it will be all it is hyped to be
but please, stop with the module "proofs"
Incorrect.
Testing of the "Persistent (Testing) Universe" has already started. Unfortunately only for a select few backers, chosen at random (and they are under NDA). CIG posted on the forums and everyone active and willing in those few minutes got an invitation. The others have the option in their settings, but currently its still greyed out for 99,9 %.
So its more than a collection of modules already, although in pre-Alpha state.
Hopefully more people will be added to the PU Tester list as time goes by.
Buzz Aldrin's actions both as a astronaut and what he did with that fame he earned afterwards speak for themselves.
What does Chris Robert's actions endlessly finding new ways to increase his funding and pushing the release date of the game out ever farther and farther to add new features as long as the money keeps rolling in say about the man? Maybe I'm wrong and maybe Chris Robert's is just caught up in the moment of having near endless resources to build the game he always wanted to build but if that's the case than rather than being deliberately greedy he has given up all control over his project to rabid fanboys. Neither scenario is particularly appealing to me.
As a personal opinion ... i think you misjudge the man Chris Roberts.
I cannot convince you with words alone, so I suggest to you that you try to meet the man in person. Then let me know what you think.
Have fun
PS:
If you have the chance ... meet Buzz Aldrin too. WELL WORTH IT ;-) ! Look on Facebook on where to meet him.
but dont pay anymore for "alphas" cmon guys stop support this "model"
Honestly, it was always something speciel to me, to have a step in, before everyone else.
Now that i saw, we dont have a game here yet, i dont regret my 28.-€ as it will give me open doors to whatever will come there.
What i saw is great already, but its really pre alpha, unconnected game segments with the goal to bring them all together in a live mmo universe .... well, would'nt it be Chris Roberts, i would have my doubts, but he is one of the rare people able to realize it.
This (to me) "new" model of WYSIWYG "in-progress" game developing is interesting but i dont expect to have a persistent universe anytime soon, they have tons of work on their plates.
i always find it interesting when people are worried about not seeing a game there are plenty of others that throw the modules at these worries
these modules are just that - they are not connected to each other in any way - let me put this in caps THERE IS NO GAME
period
as yet
i'm certainly hoping there will be a game and it will be all it is hyped to be
but please, stop with the module "proofs"
Incorrect.
Testing of the "Persistent (Testing) Universe" has already started. Unfortunately only for a select few backers, chosen at random (and they are under NDA). CIG posted on the forums and everyone active and willing in those few minutes got an invitation. The others have the option in their settings, but currently its still greyed out for 99,9 %.
So its more than a collection of modules already, although in pre-Alpha state.
Hopefully more people will be added to the PU Tester list as time goes by.
Have fun
sorry
still correct
those making statements that they have seen nothing to make them believe that there is a game or ever will be are not mistaken
obviously they have not personally witnessed this super secret and possibly make believe PU Tester so lets all go look at another hangar vid
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
One thing we know for sure about the game. The credit card feature works like a charm.
I have this picture of the game design on a white board in my mind.
A circle with dollar signs in it. Surrounded by other circles called features with arrows pointing to the big circle in the middle with dollar signs.
your favourite publisher´s shareholders must be really scared of such a successful crowdfunding campaign and others inevitably following in Chris Roberts steps?
Sorry, no more profits for the grey suits behind desks jiggling publisher shares at Wall Street, building swimming pools with microtransaction money.
What if others follow? Then it´s game over for their profitable vampire business. I know, it hurts. But all good things must end.
+1....Oh the pain must be so excruciating....it's so obvious by the amount of way too much hate for SC. Some but not all, must be suits out of business i reckon...with lots of time as well:P
Star Citizen is one of the last hopes of the Space Genre to be revived, embrace the future, don't fight it anylonger, it gazes upon you, and you still measure fun with money...SC Backers and speaking just for myself, did it, just for keeps, just to be able to see finally a game made by gamers FOR Gamers, and not in a spreadsheet dark and expensive hotel with bozo suits that never played Wing Commander or X Wing vs Tie, or the old Elite.
This generation wanted a top notch Space Game, and is going to get it, whether anyone likes it or not!
In Chris Roberts We Trust!
Fully supporting STAR CITIZEN by the Legendary Grandmaster of the Space Game Genre, Chris Roberts.For Captain Eisen's memory.....For Squadron 42...For the Space Genre....For the PC....I pledge! Star Citizen TOG Star Citizen-Join Us
Comments
This game doesn't need any major gaming sites to be writing about it every other day. Star Citizen has more then enough rabid fans who will say anything to keep the hype train moving at full speed ahead. [mod edit] the forums will be a very interesting place once the train hits the end of the line. Will probably be more interesting then the game while they iron out launch bugs and issues lol.
As for myself I will continue to support both publisher funded and indie devs based on past experiences with them, and/or how the finished game turns out.
All the make believe numbers getting thrown around are just that..make believe. There are some educated guesses maybe, and some based on what developers claimed but I havent seen any company open the books completely. But even if the big numbers are accurate, the majority of those amounts are going into advertising and voice over crap and all sorts of other shit that a 'indie' company shouldnt even think about.
Thats the disconnect. And the problem. This guy started out with a dream (wet pipe dream) and it actually started to come true, so what happenes? The same thing that always happens GREED set in. It stopped being about the game and became more about whatthey could get for what and setting records for something no one really cares about.
As for what Star Citizen shows, not a hell of a lot. What is it a flight simulator thing? Nothing remotely resembling an MMO world or universe.
Even the ships theyre selling anyone seen them in a 3D rendered world? Or are they just jpegs?
ALL kickstarter MMOs should be taken with a grain of salt, and this one especially. Because it changes and changes. THATS why there are ten pages of updates because they have to spin a good story as to why theyre not doing what they said theyre doing despite raising about 5 times what their wildest dreams imagined two years ago.
This game has a lot of white knight fans (probably where some of the 70 million is going to) on these forums, just like every other game But the more it drags out the worse it looks. Especially when all we have seen the past year have been ever increasing ship prices and nothing in the way of 'real' content.
Lol, so first you accuse everyone of using "make believe" numbers (which are in fact, based on knowledge of the number of employees compared with the going rate for salary in the industry), and then you go and make a COMPLETELTY baseless accusation that "the majority of those amounts are going into advertising and voice over".
So why don't you tell us where you got that "insider" information from?
We're waiting....
Or how about we just assume that you're making it up(safe assumption, wouldn't you say?), and get back to using facts. Like this one for instance, showing the way they plan on splitting every dollar from each sale of the retail game, versus the normal industry standard.
Taken from a SXSW presentation Chris Roberts gave.
It's a very simple question with a very simple answer. One that people like you choose to ignore time and time again. Games don't just blink into existence. You can't just insert $70 million into a vending machine and have a AAA MMO with a 50+ hour branching single player drop into your lap. I didn't think that was a very complicated concept, but apparently for some, it is.
Destiny, for instance, started development in 2009. And that's with a fully spun up studio that had their budget from day one. And look how devoid of content that game is. World of Warcraft was in development for 4-5 years. And that was much smaller in scope.
And yet, here we are, on year two of development for Star Citizen. Only one of those years where you could say CIG was running at decent capacitity. The first year they were still doing the majority of their hiring and looking for studio space.
But still, people like you still can't seem to comprehend why the game isn't finished yet.
LMAO the two guys (you all should hook up with DMKAno the Archeage White knight and sit at the round table some time)
No one said anything about fully formed MMO. How about something beyond a flight simulator some ambitious guy could build in his basement.
When youre "Indie" and have no one to answer to and call your own shots that should really speed everything up and also make everything cheaper and more streamlined. So youre still using developer excuses as to why this game doesnt really show anything.
As far as Repop being small in scope and 'ambition'. WOW really? At least they have delivered SOMETHING. That might be Senior Citizens problem they dont know what the hell theyre doing so they keep collecting money and feeding people more stuff to READ (rather than play/test) and they dont have shit to show for it. They have had 'full' development on that game maybe 3 years, but they had dreams and a plan a year or so before that. Not dissimilar from Senior Citizen (which also got into 'full' development in 2011) on a lot less money. So theyre two games to compare side by side actually.
Star Citizen doesnt probably wont be released (if ever) for close to two more years (and I am sure they hope for another 50 million in contributions before then) so that means you in 5 years and almost 120 million. It better be a game that delivers something really special, as in better than any AAA MMO over the past decade for that budget.
Either way not worth talking about this game isnt close to ready (if t ever will be) just pointing out that it has a lot of talk and backers behind it with very little to show for all the hype. When they get an actual game world to play in and all these ships they have nice pictures of are actually flying around in it then we might be able to come back to it.
It depends how you look at it. You're paying a set fee with a monthly sub whereas you may need to purchase (just as an example) ship fuel or wait 8 weeks to get it in game, therefore if you want to actually play the game, you need to purchase items, to compete in PVP you need to purchase ships, to get into a guild you need to purchase skill sets/unlocks, all which maybe in the game but are restricted to an extent in which you're impeded so much you need to shell out cash.
The game looks great, I'm a huge Sci-Fi lover and can't wait to try it, however, when I see ships going for $2500, I'm just having a hard time seeing how this is going to be available in game without requiring large amounts of cash at certain steps to achieve it in a lifetime.
(\ /) ?
( . .)
c('')('')
--> Backers have made some calculations based on dev statements. Even high end solo ships and equipment will at most cost you some two weeks of non hardcore gameplay (7-30 hours of gameplay).
--> Those ships are for a crew of 25 players. One pilot alone cannot run them effectively. He would be pulled out of his seat by a player marine boarding party pretty quickly. Those 25 players together would need about two weeks of non hardcore gameplay to be able to buy such a destroyer (approx. 55 hours each).
--> Have fun
Of course. Dismiss anyone who doesn't agree with you and uses facts to dispute your unfounded claims as "white knights". All I'm hearing from you is "i have no way of backing my argument so I need to lash out".
Lol...is that how you think development works? Hold on, let me go build a skyscraper, but I'm going to build fully functioning rooms one at a time starting from the top floor.
Is this your informed opinion from your decades of large scale game development producing?
While I understand you are very versed in the information provided by the developer and that you are following the development of this game very closely, the fact that you used the term "There will never be anything like........" tells me you are not being realistic with your expectations. I'm not saying it will happen, but it's always safer to quote what the developer said rather than to re interpret it, by adding your own absolutes. The ONLY "never" that is appropriate for a game in development is "Never say never".
Also, you talk about your strategies where whales lose their advantages or that the whale's advantage is meaningless. Players in anticipation of a game in development will always challenge the question about P2W elements with the following arguments....(Almost without exception)
1. The Whale is always alone
2. The Whale is incompetent
3. The Whale sits idly by while the grinder is closing the gap between them.
All 3 strategies fail. What ever strategies or scenarios you can think of that puts you winning over the spenders, the spenders have thought of that too. So have the developers who want the spenders to keep spending. Whales don't work alone, they know how to play the game as good as anyone else and they are constantly leveraging their early advantage to increase the distance of the gap between themselves and those who don't spend.
GeezerGamer ... it was not me that said this. It was the lead designer of the game itself, Chris Roberts. If anyone can speak in absolutes, its him.
Read this (at least .. the english part of it, the German part is just an explanation by a gaming journalist):
http://www.starcitizenblog.de/2013/04/klarstellung-von-chris-roberts-zu.html
I think you will find Point 3 and 4 quite illuminating.
CIG is aware of the strategies of those with too much money ("whales") and too much time. While you cannot entirely negate any bonuses gained, i think the 4 rules stated in this clarification are a good base to form a compromise that allows ALL gaming styles to flourish, be it hardcore gamer or casual gamer.
CIG and Chris Roberts want people first and foremost (Rule 1, remember ;-) ?) "to have fun in gameplay".
While they DO need money to make and run this game, money is NOT the main goal. It is a means to achieve an end. And I think from the way he put down his 4 rules, i - personally - doubt that he will change them come game launch, certainly not for money.
Have fun
Your faith in that man is nice and all but at what point does what he say become lip service for the reality that he continues to release new ships for ever increasing prices and continues to push new promises and expand the scope of the project? He could have built and launched the game he promised in kickstarter sometime ago but instead he decided to endless accept more and more money and push the release date of the game out ever farther. And why not? The promise of the game is probably going to make him a lot more money than trying to maintain the hype after launch when the reality of it sets in for players. Does that really sound like a person who is more concerned about your enjoyment than his money to you?
Let me tell you a tale of two men.
First is Chris Roberts, whom i met at Gamescon 2014. I knew about his work and career. I knew about his recent projects. I supported his recent projects and I am a fan of his previous work. Do I think he will betray all his fans and co-workers for money ? No.
The second one is Buzz Aldrin, whom i met at a conference many years ago. I knew about his work and career. I knew about his recent projects. I supported his recent projects and I am a fan of his previous work. Do i think he betrayed everyone by not landing on the moon and doing it all in a darkened studio under the direction of Stanley Kubrik ? No.
Why do i think so ? Because i met those two men. Both are engineers in the best sense of the word. They make things happen. Because something is driving those two men. I can see it, i can sense it.
So i support them and their ideas.
Have fun
PS:
What was one of the first thoughts of Buzz Aldrin as he made his first steps on the moon ? That he won a bet about the best way to move around on the moon. ;-)
i always find it interesting when people are worried about not seeing a game there are plenty of others that throw the modules at these worries
these modules are just that - they are not connected to each other in any way - let me put this in caps THERE IS NO GAME
period
as yet
i'm certainly hoping there will be a game and it will be all it is hyped to be
but please, stop with the module "proofs"
Buzz Aldrin's actions both as a astronaut and what he did with that fame he earned afterwards speak for themselves.
What does Chris Robert's actions endlessly finding new ways to increase his funding and pushing the release date of the game out ever farther and farther to add new features as long as the money keeps rolling in say about the man? Maybe I'm wrong and maybe Chris Robert's is just caught up in the moment of having near endless resources to build the game he always wanted to build but if that's the case than rather than being deliberately greedy he has given up all control over his project to rabid fanboys with disposable income. Neither scenario is particularly appealing to me.
Incorrect.
Testing of the "Persistent (Testing) Universe" has already started. Unfortunately only for a select few backers, chosen at random (and they are under NDA). CIG posted on the forums and everyone active and willing in those few minutes got an invitation. The others have the option in their settings, but currently its still greyed out for 99,9 %.
So its more than a collection of modules already, although in pre-Alpha state.
Hopefully more people will be added to the PU Tester list as time goes by.
Have fun
As a personal opinion ... i think you misjudge the man Chris Roberts.
I cannot convince you with words alone, so I suggest to you that you try to meet the man in person. Then let me know what you think.
Have fun
PS:
If you have the chance ... meet Buzz Aldrin too. WELL WORTH IT ;-) ! Look on Facebook on where to meet him.
Honestly, it was always something speciel to me, to have a step in, before everyone else.
Now that i saw, we dont have a game here yet, i dont regret my 28.-€ as it will give me open doors to whatever will come there.
What i saw is great already, but its really pre alpha, unconnected game segments with the goal to bring them all together in a live mmo universe .... well, would'nt it be Chris Roberts, i would have my doubts, but he is one of the rare people able to realize it.
This (to me) "new" model of WYSIWYG "in-progress" game developing is interesting but i dont expect to have a persistent universe anytime soon, they have tons of work on their plates.
Looking forward to be a Star Citizen at one point
sorry
still correct
those making statements that they have seen nothing to make them believe that there is a game or ever will be are not mistaken
obviously they have not personally witnessed this super secret and possibly make believe PU Tester so lets all go look at another hangar vid
Its so super secret that everyone interested heard about it and every backer has the option in his/her settings.
For sure it MUST BE a FAKE, a make-believe shenanigan by those dastardly scammers from CIG ....
*** goes off to look another hangar vid, because gatheris said so .... ***
Have fun
PS:
Here is the hangar video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGPv_upi69U
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
+1....Oh the pain must be so excruciating....it's so obvious by the amount of way too much hate for SC. Some but not all, must be suits out of business i reckon...with lots of time as well:P
Star Citizen is one of the last hopes of the Space Genre to be revived, embrace the future, don't fight it anylonger, it gazes upon you, and you still measure fun with money...SC Backers and speaking just for myself, did it, just for keeps, just to be able to see finally a game made by gamers FOR Gamers, and not in a spreadsheet dark and expensive hotel with bozo suits that never played Wing Commander or X Wing vs Tie, or the old Elite.
This generation wanted a top notch Space Game, and is going to get it, whether anyone likes it or not!
In Chris Roberts We Trust!
Fully supporting STAR CITIZEN by the Legendary Grandmaster of the Space Game Genre, Chris Roberts.For Captain Eisen's memory.....For Squadron 42...For the Space Genre....For the PC....I pledge!
Star Citizen
TOG Star Citizen-Join Us