Originally posted by maticbed THEY COPIED THE GW2 LITERALLY. ESO dont have enough people and they need to go B2P if they want to get some money like GEMS STORE in GW2. but people will still play GW2 after the big incoming expansion
Dude... you sound so angry with that shouting you're doing.
Also I can't tell if you're angry about them using the obviously successful model which GW2 uses, or if you're happy, or if you're self conscious about liking GW2, or secretly worried about people leaving your favorite game for another...
Not to mention, theres no evidence of a GW2 expansion. The silly article on this website gave no indication of such. The title indicated that there would be an expansion, but no where in the article was that confirmed by a GW2 source. A trademarked title is all. I am not sure thats enough to convince me theres an expansion on the way.
Unless an item, like an armor set or something, costs 5,000-10,000 crowns or something, I don't think that I'll be able to use up all of the crowns that I would get monthly from a sub. In my opinion, they are showering people in crowns.
500 up front.
100 for every month
1500 after march 17th for ESO plus members.
So , assuming items aren't insanely priced and resemble anything like GW2(where a cosmetic armor set might cost 800 gems) I would have too many crowns and enough things to purchase. Honestly, do you think Zenimax has the personnel to create new cosmetics and mounts and all and stuff them into the gem store like Arenanet does? I think we'll quickly run out of things to purchase and eventually being an ESO plus member might not be worth it.
Again, this is assuming two things: that items aren't over-priced and that Zenimax doesnt have the capability to add in a ton of stuff frequently.
I also would be very upset if all they did was add in one new mount and costume per month or something. I want choices, not what everyone else will be purchasing with their monthly stipend.
I also would be very upset if all they did was add in one new mount and costume per month or something. I want choices, not what everyone else will be purchasing with their monthly stipend.
Would you also hate it if they moved buying bag space from in game cash to store cash? Because it can happen...easily.
How about locking out veteran skills or other advanced features?
These types of changes bring unexpected changes to create different kinds of revenue and that is what they are going to be looking for, other ways to create revenue.
Just look at Archeage, its conversion from subscription brought about the changes that killed the game in Japan where it was popular as a sub game and brought about the vast majority of complaints in Russia and the west.
So, don't just think this is something that may save the game because it could turn what current players like, into something they will hate.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Now it remains to see whether FFXIV will be able to keep carrying the subscription torch alongside WoW and EVE, or whether it will cave soon as well.
Considering some games with F2P options have a substantial amount of subscriptions that are on par or higher than any pre WoW MMO (SWTOR, for example), I wouldn't necessarily say that P2P only games are the ones carrying the subscription torch.
This is a fact that people need to start waking up to.
The vast majority of MMORPGs in the West are not F2P at all, they are hybrids.
Those hybrids feature the sub and, indeed, are underpinned by it. In 'free' games people *choose* to sub... What does this say about the demand for it?
Yet their dollar is counted towards the 'success' of F2P.
I just see this as taking down a mandatory barrier to entry
How is B2P removing the barrier to entry? That barrier is still there, the cost of client.
B2P is F2P with a charge to enter the mall. I really don't understand so many's joy over it. It's such an arse about face to monetise a game, yet the received wisdom seems to think it's the best thing since toast.
Originally posted by maticbed THEY COPIED THE GW2 LITERALLY. ESO dont have enough people and they need to go B2P if they want to get some money like GEMS STORE in GW2. but people will still play GW2 after the big incoming expansion
No, they didn't. OP said that ESO will have an "optional" subscription as well and that is nothing like GW2.
This sounds more like "Freemium" besides that you also needs to buy a box before starting to play.
Now it remains to see whether FFXIV will be able to keep carrying the subscription torch alongside WoW and EVE, or whether it will cave soon as well.
Considering some games with F2P options have a substantial amount of subscriptions that are on par or higher than any pre WoW MMO (SWTOR, for example), I wouldn't necessarily say that P2P only games are the ones carrying the subscription torch.
This is a fact that people need to start waking up to.
The vast majority of MMORPGs in the West are not F2P at all, they are hybrids.
Those hybrids feature the sub and, indeed, are underpinned by it. In 'free' games people *choose* to sub... What does this say about the demand for it?
Yet their dollar is counted towards the 'success' of F2P.
Because they don't measure games success by population any more. They measure success by money.
People sub because they can't afford F2P models.
I have yet to see game populations explode over the long term after going F2P. Just cash shop items.
Since the GW franchise is the one that started the trend with B2P games, people usually will refer to GW2 as the one tha popularized the model, which is true. Despite the gold > gem thingy, GW2's cash-shop is really player-friendly which is the reason why people were unsure if it will work. Considering that GW2 is still huge in the west 2 years after release and still brings decent yearly in-come, the model is considered a success.
God I miss the days when MMO's were a gaming community derived from RPG players that had jobs and money and knew what RPG meant....
This game had so much potential. And im sorry, but for all you whiney pathetic gamers who cant afford less than twenty friggin dollars a month for over 20 hours of entertainment a month, get a life, get a job. Your a cancer on this market.
IF YOU CANT AFFORD SUBSCRIPTION GAMES YOU SHOULDNT BE GAMING YOU SHOULD BE LOOOKING FOR AN EDUCATION AND A PAYCHECK OR BOTH! PERIOD!
And as for Zen, you had the opportunity to take a GLORIOUS franchise and make an MMO that was truly EPIC, not a mix of GW and WoW, and then take sub money from PC gamers for a year and decide the beta was over. You are a trashcan company and could take a few hints from some smaller companies with better game designs than the ripoff work you unimaginative fucks took from the IP of TES and snowballed it into a gross orgy of inept writing and half assed character design.You didnt have to do ANYTHING to come up with this lore except hire a basic writing and research team. The animations and painted armors are six and seven year old graphical techniques, and yeah, after you lost your initial fan base you started making changes, but this is something that never needed to happen, and B2P and F2P are the BANE of the gaming community. It makes the stereotype of the poor lazy gamer an in-your-face reality, and brings about sub-par quality of patches and new content on a regular basis. GW2 is a good example of that and is the ONLY example in the world that remains just BARELY a AAA title. But hey, since you pretty much ripped off the ability use design and UI from GW2, why not try to rip of their B2P model to, you immoral, incompetent asswipes.
Zen is right there with EA. And its a fact that free DOESNT MEAN BETTER for you as a player. B2P is just another way of saying, "Hey we dont have to rely COMPLETELY on endorsements and gimics, but get ready for em, cuz we cant wait to get free money from you while we decimate more TES lore and our expansions get smaller and smaller and smaller."
The bantering of the poor trash, microsecond attention span players who cant afford 15 dollars a month for a game, are the reason there hasnt been a decent MMO that has stayed on the market since WoW, and its the reason why the MMO market is barren to this day, but rife with cheap advertisement filled, half ass animated, horribly written, japanimation mmo styled crap, or even worse, propogates lying thieves and shitty developers like those that created FIREFALL. And soon will herald back in the multiplayer RPG market, 3 to 5 players max in game.
If a company cant rely on its market, then it will change markets. FACT. Screw MMO's, and Zen can go fuck EA in the ass and get married like the whore lying trash companies they are. They are both disgusting.
The Devs of this game should have been banned from the gaming market and community for the lies they told in the FIRST PLACE before the game even came out. Which were apparent once the game released in beta. including the lack of spells, character customization, inbalanced werewolf and vamp play and a hundred other things.
Today is a sad day for gamers, because you realize what you are so closely associated with in trash can B2P and F2P news and forums like this.
Get a job, some money, and shut up. And stop allowing companies like Zen to make games we dont show up in force to oppose. At E3, people should be standing up question after question and berating these people for their failures and their lies. And if they don't allow questions, then you stand up in the middle of their speech and start asking anyway. The community has gone down hill for years, and we let them do this to us.
The ESO community is going to be worse than trash now, the way it turns into EVERY time a F2P and B2P model comes out. We thought the bots were bad for a few months on ESO, its nothing compared to the trash we are gonna have to deal with now.
hahahaahahahahah- Christ, this made my morning.
I found myself nodding my head in agreement and found it quite entertaining.
..And just like GW2 and Rift, the patches will become further apart while the dev team focuses on cash shop items and how to tweak the game to "encourage " you to buy something from the cash shop. Whenever I play a game with an optional sub I can't help but feel I'm getting less for my money than I was when I was paying a monthly fee.
NO thanks!
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
After months on the alpha and betas, I decided to pass on ESO. Not because it was a bad game, but because I have a tight knit group of friends in DDO that wouldn't make the jump to ESO due to cost - $60 for the box and then $15/month. Whereas DDO was free to download and has the freemium features plus subscription. Maybe now, we'll jump across as a guild and see whats what
I was initially really annoyed by the new payment model and started playing gw2 out of annoyance, however I actually missed ESO and ended up going back, ita a looong time since I last felt like that about a game - so started pkating again last night and had grat fun again. Il just have to suffer the new model, and focus on the many positives.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by SwampRob I've not tried it, could some one tell me how solo-friendly the game is? What about end-game gear? Does that require grouping/raiding?
Very friendly and no it does not. Gear is just flavors in ESO. There are a couple sets that drop from trials, but they are no better than crafted gear.
cant say i am happy about this,But i saw it coming and theres nothing to do about it. Its mostly about the console version this happened,Would probably go B2P anyway after awhile,But the game just started to become worth paying for
AND to all the nay sayers trolling the earlier article weeks ago speculating F2P......
I T O L D Y O U S O !
Yep, many of us said the same thing.
Do people really need to pat themselves on the back for realizing a pay model can change at any time in this genre? Very few people think there's no chance of that happening. Most people don't respond to these folks as they do because they don't think it will happen, they do so because they perceive them as being a negative asshat... Sorry to put it so bluntly I'll gladly take a warning/ban for doing so though...that is what is really happening; In most of these cases of "they all attacked me for being right"...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by SwampRob I've not tried it, could some one tell me how solo-friendly the game is? What about end-game gear? Does that require grouping/raiding?
Solo friendly until high level which is grouping.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Comments
Not to mention, theres no evidence of a GW2 expansion. The silly article on this website gave no indication of such. The title indicated that there would be an expansion, but no where in the article was that confirmed by a GW2 source. A trademarked title is all. I am not sure thats enough to convince me theres an expansion on the way.
^.
And they took your money, performed bug squashes, class balancing, small content additions, champion/justice system addition.
Regarding crowns and the cash shop:
Unless an item, like an armor set or something, costs 5,000-10,000 crowns or something, I don't think that I'll be able to use up all of the crowns that I would get monthly from a sub. In my opinion, they are showering people in crowns.
500 up front.
100 for every month
1500 after march 17th for ESO plus members.
So , assuming items aren't insanely priced and resemble anything like GW2(where a cosmetic armor set might cost 800 gems) I would have too many crowns and enough things to purchase. Honestly, do you think Zenimax has the personnel to create new cosmetics and mounts and all and stuff them into the gem store like Arenanet does? I think we'll quickly run out of things to purchase and eventually being an ESO plus member might not be worth it.
Again, this is assuming two things: that items aren't over-priced and that Zenimax doesnt have the capability to add in a ton of stuff frequently.
I also would be very upset if all they did was add in one new mount and costume per month or something. I want choices, not what everyone else will be purchasing with their monthly stipend.
Would you also hate it if they moved buying bag space from in game cash to store cash? Because it can happen...easily.
How about locking out veteran skills or other advanced features?
These types of changes bring unexpected changes to create different kinds of revenue and that is what they are going to be looking for, other ways to create revenue.
Just look at Archeage, its conversion from subscription brought about the changes that killed the game in Japan where it was popular as a sub game and brought about the vast majority of complaints in Russia and the west.
So, don't just think this is something that may save the game because it could turn what current players like, into something they will hate.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
This is a fact that people need to start waking up to.
The vast majority of MMORPGs in the West are not F2P at all, they are hybrids.
Those hybrids feature the sub and, indeed, are underpinned by it. In 'free' games people *choose* to sub... What does this say about the demand for it?
Yet their dollar is counted towards the 'success' of F2P.
How is B2P removing the barrier to entry? That barrier is still there, the cost of client.
B2P is F2P with a charge to enter the mall. I really don't understand so many's joy over it. It's such an arse about face to monetise a game, yet the received wisdom seems to think it's the best thing since toast.
No, they didn't. OP said that ESO will have an "optional" subscription as well and that is nothing like GW2.
This sounds more like "Freemium" besides that you also needs to buy a box before starting to play.
Because they don't measure games success by population any more. They measure success by money.
People sub because they can't afford F2P models.
I have yet to see game populations explode over the long term after going F2P. Just cash shop items.
hahahaahahahahah- Christ, this made my morning.
I found myself nodding my head in agreement and found it quite entertaining.
..And just like GW2 and Rift, the patches will become further apart while the dev team focuses on cash shop items and how to tweak the game to "encourage " you to buy something from the cash shop. Whenever I play a game with an optional sub I can't help but feel I'm getting less for my money than I was when I was paying a monthly fee.
NO thanks!
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
After months on the alpha and betas, I decided to pass on ESO. Not because it was a bad game, but because I have a tight knit group of friends in DDO that wouldn't make the jump to ESO due to cost - $60 for the box and then $15/month. Whereas DDO was free to download and has the freemium features plus subscription. Maybe now, we'll jump across as a guild and see whats what
Yeah, wow, so PC users had a superior experience long before console users did, they are leveled, wealthier and better entrenched.
Take that, PC users!!!
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Played the beta and liked this game just couldn't afford the monthly subs.
Will definitely buy the game. I bought GW1 and GW2 for this very same reason... B2P.
Can't wait!
Very friendly and no it does not. Gear is just flavors in ESO. There are a couple sets that drop from trials, but they are no better than crafted gear.
Kano's thoughts right now -- "I told you so !"
Edit: By the way I'd like for those that blasted our good ol' Kano for rumor-mongering to now take the opportunity to apologize. Heheh
Do people really need to pat themselves on the back for realizing a pay model can change at any time in this genre? Very few people think there's no chance of that happening. Most people don't respond to these folks as they do because they don't think it will happen, they do so because they perceive them as being a negative asshat... Sorry to put it so bluntly I'll gladly take a warning/ban for doing so though...that is what is really happening; In most of these cases of "they all attacked me for being right"...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Solo friendly until high level which is grouping.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey