If the system allowed you to just throw as much money as possible to get progressively more and more advantages, I might call it P2W. As it is, it's just a flat 10% you can get max for a subscription. If you can't afford the subscription then they are still being kind and letting you play the game.
No, that doesn't smell like P2W to me. I haven't played ESO since a few days after launch so I am not a fanboy by any means but I just don't see the P2W there. P2W means different things to different people though so other responses will probably vary.
Yes it is P2W. It's pretty straightforward you pay money, you have an advantage, which they do.
thank you! finally somebody who sees the light
Because god knows that the guy who plays for free should have same advantage as the people who actually pay to keep the game running. Feel entitled much? Here's s little wake up call there is no such thing as free to play someone somewhere always has to pay, and those people generally are not paying so some the guy who doesn't can have a great time.
Originally posted by Hermod Or it could be a thank-you for paying the wages for the people that spend a lot of time making the game.
that's not the point.
The point is that most B2P models are really only supposed to have cosmetic or vanity items for sale to not be considered as offering unfair advantage over others.
They're supposed to have whatever the hell the company puts in there. There are no hard and fast rules here. Pay to win would be selling items in a shop that directly give a player who pays an advantage over folks who don't. Extra xp and what not is not pay to win. Putting a +20 sword of throat punch on the shop for 20$ would be.
Yes it is P2W. It's pretty straightforward you pay money, you have an advantage, which they do.
thank you! finally somebody who sees the light
So if i buy any game it must be p2w as i have bought the game so i have got the advantage of being able to play it
Every game ever purchased, subscribed to, spent money on in any form must be p2w?!
Do you think boosts are winning?
lol seriously come on now! This is enough surely
Lol. Yes it's unfair that all those people who bought the game are progressing in game while those of us who have not bought it are not progressing at all. Certainly a p2w situation!
Almost every "freemium" subscription in any game I've ever seen has offered XP-related benefits. I've never seen anyone getting excited about it, but I guess there's a first time for everything...
And those people are flat out wrong, doesn't matter that they believe it.
The only time experience gain matters in any way is right at launch, those who gain exp faster can reach top levels in PVP and have an advantage, until everyone else catches up.
ESO's been out a long time, and there are many people at top level, so it's too late to worry about it, just time to get busy catching up to them.
I feel anyone who pays sub fee deserves significant advantage over the total F2P payer, and like most games, this one doesn't go far enough in my book.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Originally posted by doodphace As long as everyone is on a even level at endgame, no matter how much money they sink into the game, its not P2W....the only thing that would concern me in that list, is the 10% gold increase.
Yes but the guys playing for free are going to be at a disadvantage-- they can't earn champion points or gold as fast.
They get no items that allow them to be a more efficient killing machine therefore it is in no way P2W. They pay a sub and deserve something you don't if you want to play for free.
ZOS is a business and they can't pay the bills without incoming cash flow and those willing to pay better get an advantage. This is why the every kid gets a trophy generation is worthless. They want an even playing field but can't grasp why they should have to put in equal effort as those getting ahead, in this case paying a sub. They want everything but whine if they can't have it all for free. I guess you think you should have those that actually work for living buy your food, pay your rent, buy you a nicer car than they can afford, cloth your kids, and do all this while you collect a welfare check taken directly out of their paycheck. I guess that's what those evil people that have personal initiative have to do to pay their fare share huh? You want an even playing field? Then pay for a sub or find another game.
it ain't that great anyway.
everything here is a general statement and not a direct attack on the OP. The fact that I have to write that or get banned speaks volumes...
Originally posted by DMKano And here we go again - the same argument over what's considered *winning* in a MMO.
Yes, here we go again - the same argument over people taking idioms literally when they're clearly meant to be taken figuratively.
^^ basically that. It's not about winning it's about nullifying what everyone has to go through for a price. P2W used to have a literal meaning, it doesn't any more it has become just that... an idiom, used to label anything giving those who will pay more an easier path.
Probably time for a new term, give P2w it's true meaning back.. buying power
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by DMKano And here we go again - the same argument over what's considered *winning* in a MMO.
Yes, here we go again - the same argument over people taking idioms literally when they're clearly meant to be taken figuratively.
^^ basically that. It's not about winning it's about nullifying what everyone has to go through for a price. P2W used to have a literal meaning, it doesn't any more it has become just that... an idiom, used to label anything giving those will to pay more an easier path.
Probably time for a new term, giving P2w it's true meaning back.
Yes that sounds about right. It's more of a semantic issue.
Pay 4 Advantage /= Pay 2 Win, although the two often get used interchangably.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
This is actually what I would expect. It's a money-time trade. I have no problem with this. If I can obtain, within reason, what paying players can obtain then I consider it fair.
Originally posted by doodphace As long as everyone is on a even level at endgame, no matter how much money they sink into the game, its not P2W....the only thing that would concern me in that list, is the 10% gold increase.
Yes but the guys playing for free are going to be at a disadvantage-- they can't earn champion points or gold as fast.
They should be at a disadvantage. If freeloaders get the exact same thing as payers, why pay? You need incentives unless ESO is looking to become a welfare game.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
i dont see anything p2w on the OP post. People still get the meaning of p2w wrong in 2015
i would be more inclined to subscribe if they remove the 10% experience gain. The last thing i want in an mmo is reach max lvl faster and move to a different game faster.
Comments
No, that doesn't smell like P2W to me. I haven't played ESO since a few days after launch so I am not a fanboy by any means but I just don't see the P2W there. P2W means different things to different people though so other responses will probably vary.
Because god knows that the guy who plays for free should have same advantage as the people who actually pay to keep the game running. Feel entitled much? Here's s little wake up call there is no such thing as free to play someone somewhere always has to pay, and those people generally are not paying so some the guy who doesn't can have a great time.
They're supposed to have whatever the hell the company puts in there. There are no hard and fast rules here. Pay to win would be selling items in a shop that directly give a player who pays an advantage over folks who don't. Extra xp and what not is not pay to win. Putting a +20 sword of throat punch on the shop for 20$ would be.
Lol. Yes it's unfair that all those people who bought the game are progressing in game while those of us who have not bought it are not progressing at all. Certainly a p2w situation!
Almost every "freemium" subscription in any game I've ever seen has offered XP-related benefits. I've never seen anyone getting excited about it, but I guess there's a first time for everything...
advantage for money = pay to win
That´s very basic.
ALL money gives an advantage.
I don´t know what world you are living in....
PS: For instance...you cannot even play the game if you don´t buy it....
fixed it for you
And those people are flat out wrong, doesn't matter that they believe it.
The only time experience gain matters in any way is right at launch, those who gain exp faster can reach top levels in PVP and have an advantage, until everyone else catches up.
ESO's been out a long time, and there are many people at top level, so it's too late to worry about it, just time to get busy catching up to them.
I feel anyone who pays sub fee deserves significant advantage over the total F2P payer, and like most games, this one doesn't go far enough in my book.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yeah I expect store owners to give me free stuff when I walk in. I don't know why they get so annoyed when I don't have any money.
hmm a good point, not only is every game p2w but everything we spend money on anywhere, even a gas bill is p2w!
Eating is p2w too. First world problems.
10% bonuses to xp or gold are quite negligible.
This is a minimal perk for subscribers.
P2W is gear sold in the cash shop and the ability to buy gold where you can then buy gear in game.
P2W is not xp buffs or minimal gold acquisition. Even if you kill a boss in ESO, the gold you get is a trivial amount.
They get no items that allow them to be a more efficient killing machine therefore it is in no way P2W. They pay a sub and deserve something you don't if you want to play for free.
ZOS is a business and they can't pay the bills without incoming cash flow and those willing to pay better get an advantage. This is why the every kid gets a trophy generation is worthless. They want an even playing field but can't grasp why they should have to put in equal effort as those getting ahead, in this case paying a sub. They want everything but whine if they can't have it all for free. I guess you think you should have those that actually work for living buy your food, pay your rent, buy you a nicer car than they can afford, cloth your kids, and do all this while you collect a welfare check taken directly out of their paycheck. I guess that's what those evil people that have personal initiative have to do to pay their fare share huh? You want an even playing field? Then pay for a sub or find another game.
it ain't that great anyway.
everything here is a general statement and not a direct attack on the OP. The fact that I have to write that or get banned speaks volumes...
^^ basically that. It's not about winning it's about nullifying what everyone has to go through for a price. P2W used to have a literal meaning, it doesn't any more it has become just that... an idiom, used to label anything giving those who will pay more an easier path.
Probably time for a new term, give P2w it's true meaning back.. buying power
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yes that sounds about right. It's more of a semantic issue.
Pay 4 Advantage /= Pay 2 Win, although the two often get used interchangably.
Is it p2w for you? Where p2w means you are jelly.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Your LIFE its pay2win
They should be at a disadvantage. If freeloaders get the exact same thing as payers, why pay? You need incentives unless ESO is looking to become a welfare game.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
i dont see anything p2w on the OP post. People still get the meaning of p2w wrong in 2015
i would be more inclined to subscribe if they remove the 10% experience gain. The last thing i want in an mmo is reach max lvl faster and move to a different game faster.