Because B2P is just F2P with an upfront cost, this is in improvement exactly how?
Before spamming, botting, or griefing you'll be making an investment.
This, plus the first investment means that the developer and publisher have an additional source of income which often mean that they don't have the need to agressively nickel and dime their customers and force them to spend money in the shop.
Biggest example of this difference are the Guild Wars games both the original game and the sequal have shops that don't really sell anything that is necisarry to enjoy the game and its content. Just some fashion items, some funny boxes and a few boosts that make your levelling or crafting go slightly faster.
On the other hand, the cash shop in a f2p game like Neverwinter Nights is horrible, intrusive and for many gamers it was the reason to leave the game.
So... being able to buy VIP membership tickets that someone bought for $ with in-game gold is a good thing? Isn't that just a slightly hidden gold selling scheme?
I guess you can sell anything if the packaging is good or confusing enough.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
My potential "Dream" game comes along and then I read "North American only". I know that is related to pricing. But does this mean other regions will be left out for now? I am part of the ANZ region and would love to know if there will be some sort of IP block or such? And I don't want to end up paying in EUROS like how Square Enix forces me
When I think of B2P, I think of stuff like Diablo 2 where you bought the game and then played it. Now it's more like Buy to have access to the cash shop.
So... being able to buy VIP membership tickets that someone bought for $ with in-game gold is a good thing? Isn't that just a slightly hidden gold selling scheme?
I guess you can sell anything if the packaging is good or confusing enough.
It sounds like the PLEX system other games have used. I don't really see an issue. The line that we can trade goods OR services is a bit odd though. What kind of services exactly? Bounty hunting, crafting... prostitution? I can just see the "Will Cyber for VIP tickets" trade chat posts now.
Lol yeah... new lows can still be reached.
As to whether one sees an issue or not... I guess it has to do with perspective. Specifically how one feels about gold selling and buying in MMOs. Once upon a time there used to be a social stigma attached to being the weenie who bought gold to keep up with good players... I guess that went the way of the dodo once developers started selling gold themselves through these intermediary steps.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
It looks like it's basically the exact same as ESO's
Hopefully we'll see more MMOs adopt the B2P with optional sub model!
Because B2P is just F2P with an upfront cost, this is in improvement exactly how?
F2P games frequently have a subscription option so that isn't the benefit?
The only difference between this and the traditional sub only game is the sub is optional. Almost all titles have a cash shop. so is there really much of a difference in the payment model?
Edit: NM, I keep forgetting, some folks enjoy "dropping" in to play MMO's for the short term, I never consider that possibility as I would automatically sub for any game I chose to return to. I just don't think like most of you.
F2P is the worst model there is. It allows the trash of the gaming community to make account after account without any fear of losing anything. At least with B2P if a person does something stupid in game and gets a ban they have to purchase another copy. That is the main reason a lot of people prefer B2P.
You will see farmers still in almost every game but at least with B2P they face having to buy accounts over and over when ban hammers come through. This is a major +1 for me and most everyone I know.
F2P is a horrible mess and really there is no such thing in today's Western MMO's. It is free to try with lots of stuff behind pay walls for most F2P games, notice I said most. There may be a couple that you can get anything in the shop with actual game currency but they are few.
Its funny how so many people are willing to turn a blind eye to rmt being built into this game. Its like hype has clouded your judgement and caused you to forget all the problems this caused in games you were playing just months ago.
Originally posted by Dullahan Its funny how so many people are willing to turn a blind eye to rmt being built into this game. Its like hype has clouded your judgement and caused you to forget all the problems this caused in games you were playing just months ago.
As long as a game is entertaining to me, I do not care how the developers earn there money. To many games and other forms of entertainment out there for me to care about such a thing.
Originally posted by Dullahan Its funny how so many people are willing to turn a blind eye to rmt being built into this game. Its like hype has clouded your judgement and caused you to forget all the problems this caused in games you were playing just months ago.
I even saw a post in the official Crowfall forums today saying that the RMT through VIP trading is good because it keeps the black market RMT away, lol.
Not only is it just a feeble rationalization, all games with RMT continue to have problems with 3rd party sellers.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I think developing an mmo from the ground up as a robust, unrestricted B2P with extra perks for a VIP status is a smart move. Whether the game will be good or not, i dont know, but this business model sounds pretty good.
Some companies still dont get it that when making a B2P/P2P hybrid model, you dont take away from game owners, you give more to subscribers. Its up to them to offer a limited free trial, but unrestricted B2P with extra VIP perks is the smartest model IMO.
It looks like it's basically the exact same as ESO's
Hopefully we'll see more MMOs adopt the B2P with optional sub model!
Exact same how?
Do you think Crofall will make b2p promises and end up selling out it funbase after a year to appeal a different crowd?
You're right. It's not exactly the same. Whatever ESO does in the future, it's not starting out selling gold through a scheme like trading VIP memberships - there is just no way of buying gold from ZOS, just the usual 3rd party stuff.
Crowfall, OTOH, is starting from the very beginning with built-in cash for gold transactions. In that respect it's just like GW2, not ESO.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
SO i goto Gamesradar they have a ton of games,click the C section scroll through 4 pages ,yep you guessed it nothing.
It seems nobody cares about this game at all.I guess this budget developer could only afford to pay this site to hype it's game up.
Should the market be all about marketing and not gaming?No of course not but it does say one of three things.
1 NONE of the media sites cannot be trusted because they ONLY post articles on advertisers.
2 Perhaps those other sites really don't care about this game?
3 MMORPG is the smartest media site going and the only one who knows this game is a gem?
For a game that has absolutely ,well almost nothing of game play to share with us,they sure get a lot of attention.So why this game getting so much attention over the 100's of other games out there?Most sites have a massive plethora of information on just about every game in the market ,except this game.
So now more important than the actual game is the monetary system?odd very odd.
Go play Game of War..
It's advertised all over the place, has Upton in its commercials too.
Must be a gem. The next big thing.
Should be the best game you've ever seen, and there is absolutely no reason for you to keep visiting gaming blogs.
I do like B2P, although if it is like ArcheAge you basically have to sub to be able to do anything worth while. GW2 has the best model b/c they don't offer a monthly sub option at all. Sub+cash shop is double-dipping, but that seems to be the trend lately...
It looks like it's basically the exact same as ESO's
Hopefully we'll see more MMOs adopt the B2P with optional sub model!
Exact same how?
Do you think Crofall will make b2p promises and end up selling out it funbase after a year to appeal a different crowd?
You're right. It's not exactly the same. Whatever ESO does in the future, it's not starting out selling gold through a scheme like trading VIP memberships - there is just no way of buying gold from ZOS, just the usual 3rd party stuff.
Crowfall, OTOH, is starting from the very beginning with built-in cash for gold transactions. In that respect it's just like GW2, not ESO.
The problem here is trust.
When you start investing time and money in a game you do so because of promises.
Lets say that you play ESO and gather 1000 champion points in half a year grinding your butt off so you can be competitive in PvP.
Next day Zenimax announces they offer 2000 champion points for 5 euro in the shop.
Two questions. How would you feel?
And the most important one.. Should you be surprised given Zenimaxes past?
And because I like facts..
Here is what Zenimax said pre-launch and now :
"The Elder Scrolls games are all about allowing the player to go where they want, be who they want, and do what they want. We feel that putting pay gates between the player and content at any point in game ruins that feeling of freedom, and just having one small monthly fee for 100% access to the game fits the IP and the game much better than a system where you have to pay for features and access as you play. The Elder Scrolls Online was designed and developed to be a premium experience: hundreds of hours of gameplay, tons of depth and features, professional customer support - and a commitment to have ongoing content at regular intervals after launch."
"We are not going to keep up our 2014 pace of updates in 2015 - and our future update pace will focus more on new adventures and game experiences than system changes.... and expect to see that (the future updates) start rolling out at some point after console launch settles down ( approx 4-6 months later)"
Crowfall is a gray zone right now. They say aaall the right things, but so did Zenimax.
Until time proves them honest, I won't trust them. But.
At least they are honest about their desired model from day 1.
And like GW2, they are highly likely to keep their promise.
It looks like it's basically the exact same as ESO's
Hopefully we'll see more MMOs adopt the B2P with optional sub model!
Exact same how?
Do you think Crofall will make b2p promises and end up selling out it funbase after a year to appeal a different crowd?
You're right. It's not exactly the same. Whatever ESO does in the future, it's not starting out selling gold through a scheme like trading VIP memberships - there is just no way of buying gold from ZOS, just the usual 3rd party stuff.
Crowfall, OTOH, is starting from the very beginning with built-in cash for gold transactions. In that respect it's just like GW2, not ESO.
The problem here is trust.
When you start investing time and money in a game you do so because of promises.
Lets say that you play ESO and gather 1000 champion points in half a year grinding your butt off so you can be competitive in PvP.
Next day Zenimax announces they offer 2000 champion points for 5 euro in the shop.
Two questions. How would you feel?
And the most important one.. Should you be surprised given Zenimaxes past?
And because I like facts..
Here is what Zenimax said pre-launch and now :
"The Elder Scrolls games are all about allowing the player to go where they want, be who they want, and do what they want. We feel that putting pay gates between the player and content at any point in game ruins that feeling of freedom, and just having one small monthly fee for 100% access to the game fits the IP and the game much better than a system where you have to pay for features and access as you play. The Elder Scrolls Online was designed and developed to be a premium experience: hundreds of hours of gameplay, tons of depth and features, professional customer support - and a commitment to have ongoing content at regular intervals after launch."
"We are not going to keep up our 2014 pace of updates in 2015 - and our future update pace will focus more on new adventures and game experiences than system changes.... and expect to see that (the future updates) start rolling out at some point after console launch settles down ( approx 4-6 months later)"
Crowfall is a gray zone right now. They say aaall the right things, but so did Zenimax.
Until time proves them honest, I won't trust them. But.
At least they are honest about their desired model from day 1.
And like GW2, they are highly likely to keep their promise.
I bet if I set my mind to it I could come up with even scarier future scenarios.
But in this thread, today, talking about Crowfall, they have cash for gold transactions. And that is a shitty model.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I guess if it's a PvP oriented game this payment model will work for them. Content is usually user-created in these circumstances, so the dev team won't need a huge budget for content creation. Then again, probably only serious players might get into this game and a substantial number of those will go with the VIP status, which will funnel some funds towards future development.
I'm just thinking mostly in terms of GW2 where the most they could do with their payment model, which isn't drastically different from Crowfall, was put out minor content additions every 2 weeks that might last the entirety of a lunch break for a player. It's also taken them three years to announce an expansion.
It looks like it's basically the exact same as ESO's
Hopefully we'll see more MMOs adopt the B2P with optional sub model!
Exact same how?
Do you think Crofall will make b2p promises and end up selling out it funbase after a year to appeal a different crowd?
You're right. It's not exactly the same. Whatever ESO does in the future, it's not starting out selling gold through a scheme like trading VIP memberships - there is just no way of buying gold from ZOS, just the usual 3rd party stuff.
Crowfall, OTOH, is starting from the very beginning with built-in cash for gold transactions. In that respect it's just like GW2, not ESO.
The problem here is trust.
When you start investing time and money in a game you do so because of promises.
Lets say that you play ESO and gather 1000 champion points in half a year grinding your butt off so you can be competitive in PvP.
Next day Zenimax announces they offer 2000 champion points for 5 euro in the shop.
Two questions. How would you feel?
And the most important one.. Should you be surprised given Zenimaxes past?
And because I like facts..
Here is what Zenimax said pre-launch and now :
"The Elder Scrolls games are all about allowing the player to go where they want, be who they want, and do what they want. We feel that putting pay gates between the player and content at any point in game ruins that feeling of freedom, and just having one small monthly fee for 100% access to the game fits the IP and the game much better than a system where you have to pay for features and access as you play. The Elder Scrolls Online was designed and developed to be a premium experience: hundreds of hours of gameplay, tons of depth and features, professional customer support - and a commitment to have ongoing content at regular intervals after launch."
"We are not going to keep up our 2014 pace of updates in 2015 - and our future update pace will focus more on new adventures and game experiences than system changes.... and expect to see that (the future updates) start rolling out at some point after console launch settles down ( approx 4-6 months later)"
Crowfall is a gray zone right now. They say aaall the right things, but so did Zenimax.
Until time proves them honest, I won't trust them. But.
At least they are honest about their desired model from day 1.
And like GW2, they are highly likely to keep their promise.
I bet if I set my mind to it I could come up with even scarier future scenarios.
But in this thread, today, talking about Crowfall, they have cash for gold transactions. And that is a shitty model.
To that end we agree..
I'ld preffer a sub-only game.
But I highly doubt we'll be seeing those again soon after ESO and Wildstar did their number.
Also, b2p tends to be way more stable than sub. GW2 hasn't changed a thing in its model since release, but 2/3 modern AAA releases with subs (FFXIV being the 3rd) went down HARD.
It looks like it's basically the exact same as ESO's
Hopefully we'll see more MMOs adopt the B2P with optional sub model!
Exact same how?
Do you think Crofall will make b2p promises and end up selling out it funbase after a year to appeal a different crowd?
You're right. It's not exactly the same. Whatever ESO does in the future, it's not starting out selling gold through a scheme like trading VIP memberships - there is just no way of buying gold from ZOS, just the usual 3rd party stuff.
Crowfall, OTOH, is starting from the very beginning with built-in cash for gold transactions. In that respect it's just like GW2, not ESO.
The problem here is trust.
When you start investing time and money in a game you do so because of promises.
Lets say that you play ESO and gather 1000 champion points in half a year grinding your butt off so you can be competitive in PvP.
Next day Zenimax announces they offer 2000 champion points for 5 euro in the shop.
Two questions. How would you feel?
And the most important one.. Should you be surprised given Zenimaxes past?
And because I like facts..
Here is what Zenimax said pre-launch and now :
"The Elder Scrolls games are all about allowing the player to go where they want, be who they want, and do what they want. We feel that putting pay gates between the player and content at any point in game ruins that feeling of freedom, and just having one small monthly fee for 100% access to the game fits the IP and the game much better than a system where you have to pay for features and access as you play. The Elder Scrolls Online was designed and developed to be a premium experience: hundreds of hours of gameplay, tons of depth and features, professional customer support - and a commitment to have ongoing content at regular intervals after launch."
"We are not going to keep up our 2014 pace of updates in 2015 - and our future update pace will focus more on new adventures and game experiences than system changes.... and expect to see that (the future updates) start rolling out at some point after console launch settles down ( approx 4-6 months later)"
Crowfall is a gray zone right now. They say aaall the right things, but so did Zenimax.
Until time proves them honest, I won't trust them. But.
At least they are honest about their desired model from day 1.
And like GW2, they are highly likely to keep their promise.
I will skip possible elaboration on GW2 and their promises. The main reason being not highly controversial topic, but my feeling that the word "honest" is bit misplaced here - especially until someone offers any kind of proof that it was the initial ESO plan. Meantime, we are not talking about our brother that gave his word but rather a company adjusting their business model. Let´s say that one can use "honesty" approach if he wants to dramatize
When playing, I am trying to make friends and have fun, not " investing time and money... because of promises".
PS off topic, but I would prefer ESO trying subs on consoles. Furthermore, I am still not convinced that their switch was forced or even just the best option in the long run...but, obviously, it will generate chitloads of short-term revenue. Maybe that was the main motif behind it!?
Comments
Has there been posted some gameplay allready? So we can see at least how it looks?
You have excellent taste in C64 games, that one was my favorite back then
This, plus the first investment means that the developer and publisher have an additional source of income which often mean that they don't have the need to agressively nickel and dime their customers and force them to spend money in the shop.
Biggest example of this difference are the Guild Wars games both the original game and the sequal have shops that don't really sell anything that is necisarry to enjoy the game and its content. Just some fashion items, some funny boxes and a few boosts that make your levelling or crafting go slightly faster.
On the other hand, the cash shop in a f2p game like Neverwinter Nights is horrible, intrusive and for many gamers it was the reason to leave the game.
So... being able to buy VIP membership tickets that someone bought for $ with in-game gold is a good thing? Isn't that just a slightly hidden gold selling scheme?
I guess you can sell anything if the packaging is good or confusing enough.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Lol yeah... new lows can still be reached.
As to whether one sees an issue or not... I guess it has to do with perspective. Specifically how one feels about gold selling and buying in MMOs. Once upon a time there used to be a social stigma attached to being the weenie who bought gold to keep up with good players... I guess that went the way of the dodo once developers started selling gold themselves through these intermediary steps.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
F2P is the worst model there is. It allows the trash of the gaming community to make account after account without any fear of losing anything. At least with B2P if a person does something stupid in game and gets a ban they have to purchase another copy. That is the main reason a lot of people prefer B2P.
You will see farmers still in almost every game but at least with B2P they face having to buy accounts over and over when ban hammers come through. This is a major +1 for me and most everyone I know.
F2P is a horrible mess and really there is no such thing in today's Western MMO's. It is free to try with lots of stuff behind pay walls for most F2P games, notice I said most. There may be a couple that you can get anything in the shop with actual game currency but they are few.
As long as a game is entertaining to me, I do not care how the developers earn there money. To many games and other forms of entertainment out there for me to care about such a thing.
I even saw a post in the official Crowfall forums today saying that the RMT through VIP trading is good because it keeps the black market RMT away, lol.
Not only is it just a feeble rationalization, all games with RMT continue to have problems with 3rd party sellers.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
interesting.
I think developing an mmo from the ground up as a robust, unrestricted B2P with extra perks for a VIP status is a smart move. Whether the game will be good or not, i dont know, but this business model sounds pretty good.
Some companies still dont get it that when making a B2P/P2P hybrid model, you dont take away from game owners, you give more to subscribers. Its up to them to offer a limited free trial, but unrestricted B2P with extra VIP perks is the smartest model IMO.
Exact same how?
Do you think Crofall will make b2p promises and end up selling out it funbase after a year to appeal a different crowd?
You're right. It's not exactly the same. Whatever ESO does in the future, it's not starting out selling gold through a scheme like trading VIP memberships - there is just no way of buying gold from ZOS, just the usual 3rd party stuff.
Crowfall, OTOH, is starting from the very beginning with built-in cash for gold transactions. In that respect it's just like GW2, not ESO.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Go play Game of War..
It's advertised all over the place, has Upton in its commercials too.
Must be a gem. The next big thing.
Should be the best game you've ever seen, and there is absolutely no reason for you to keep visiting gaming blogs.
You found the "famous" game you waited for.
The problem here is trust.
When you start investing time and money in a game you do so because of promises.
Lets say that you play ESO and gather 1000 champion points in half a year grinding your butt off so you can be competitive in PvP.
Next day Zenimax announces they offer 2000 champion points for 5 euro in the shop.
Two questions. How would you feel?
And the most important one.. Should you be surprised given Zenimaxes past?
And because I like facts..
Here is what Zenimax said pre-launch and now :
"The Elder Scrolls games are all about allowing the player to go where they want, be who they want, and do what they want. We feel that putting pay gates between the player and content at any point in game ruins that feeling of freedom, and just having one small monthly fee for 100% access to the game fits the IP and the game much better than a system where you have to pay for features and access as you play. The Elder Scrolls Online was designed and developed to be a premium experience: hundreds of hours of gameplay, tons of depth and features, professional customer support - and a commitment to have ongoing content at regular intervals after launch."
"We are not going to keep up our 2014 pace of updates in 2015 - and our future update pace will focus more on new adventures and game experiences than system changes.... and expect to see that (the future updates) start rolling out at some point after console launch settles down ( approx 4-6 months later)"
Crowfall is a gray zone right now. They say aaall the right things, but so did Zenimax.
Until time proves them honest, I won't trust them. But.
At least they are honest about their desired model from day 1.
And like GW2, they are highly likely to keep their promise.
"As the crow falls..."
You know someone is gonna say it... wait for it...
I bet if I set my mind to it I could come up with even scarier future scenarios.
But in this thread, today, talking about Crowfall, they have cash for gold transactions. And that is a shitty model.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Sounds good, at least they did not go the f2p route and kill the game like some of their competitors.
I guess if it's a PvP oriented game this payment model will work for them. Content is usually user-created in these circumstances, so the dev team won't need a huge budget for content creation. Then again, probably only serious players might get into this game and a substantial number of those will go with the VIP status, which will funnel some funds towards future development.
I'm just thinking mostly in terms of GW2 where the most they could do with their payment model, which isn't drastically different from Crowfall, was put out minor content additions every 2 weeks that might last the entirety of a lunch break for a player. It's also taken them three years to announce an expansion.
Ya they put a paywall on f2p.
I honestly don't mind b2p w/ premium. I just don't like players being able to convert cash to in game currency.
To that end we agree..
I'ld preffer a sub-only game.
But I highly doubt we'll be seeing those again soon after ESO and Wildstar did their number.
Also, b2p tends to be way more stable than sub. GW2 hasn't changed a thing in its model since release, but 2/3 modern AAA releases with subs (FFXIV being the 3rd) went down HARD.
I will skip possible elaboration on GW2 and their promises. The main reason being not highly controversial topic, but my feeling that the word "honest" is bit misplaced here - especially until someone offers any kind of proof that it was the initial ESO plan. Meantime, we are not talking about our brother that gave his word but rather a company adjusting their business model. Let´s say that one can use "honesty" approach if he wants to dramatize
When playing, I am trying to make friends and have fun, not " investing time and money... because of promises".
PS off topic, but I would prefer ESO trying subs on consoles. Furthermore, I am still not convinced that their switch was forced or even just the best option in the long run...but, obviously, it will generate chitloads of short-term revenue. Maybe that was the main motif behind it!?