Originally posted by Battlerock Originally posted by greenreen Originally posted by Battlerock Originally posted by greenreen Originally posted by Battlerock Originally posted by greenreen Aaaaand that one goes off the list of something I would play.Sub or nothing. Buy to play is just free to play with a box price, nothing more. The model is subject to 90% of the issues free games are, it just maintains a complacency period when boxes are selling. After that they have to ramp up the cash shop for compensation - why? Because people pick up money off the street and don't turn it in, that's why.It's pretty basic really, if you don't think your game is worth a sub price, why should the players? And with that farcical sub model you suggest that not only will people choose to pay you monthly but they'll choose to frequent your cash shop to make up for people who will never pay. To think people won't take freebies or won't abuse things is not to understand people or kids who refuse to work who carry cellphones and wear designer clothes. We didn't get millions of new people playing MMOs because they got better, it was because they got easier - both in time, commitment, and money. So, now every MMO has 100 players and 10 payers, nothing changed, the same people who paid still do, why subject yourself to the 90 people who never intend on paying you, that's what is being done. It continues to confound me.
Go to the faq, look at number 2, f2p shops are not like what is being described, this is not a buy to play with a cash shop, the cash shop will sell nothing in game, I repeat nothing. Virtually all other cash shops including GW2 can not say that.
All cash shops grow over time. They have to once box sales drop to continue making the same income. You just admitted it yourself, you've seen them grow. So, you think you'll be happy for two months and move and let the next game do the same thing to you. Stuck in a perpetual cycle, spinning around in the hopes that this one will be different. This one will somehow make people pay the sub by guilt - not going to happen. Every cash shop has changed over time. This one is not immune. It competes with all the others and when it adopts their strategy it adopts their histories.
You justify it all you want for yourself. You want to take the leap into free games and you want to comfort yourself about it by saying things will stay as they are and that means you'll ignore the history of every other cash shop in every other game. I wish you luck being accepting but I'm not.
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it - someone wise.
Don't drag us into ramblings - you like it I don't - that's that, two different people thinking two different things.
No development has hard committed, it will be interesting to see if the Crowfall team will commit to a static cash shop, I think they should and are in a position to do just that, if they do, with a money back guarantee if they do not, history will not have repeated itself, rather history will be made as Crowfall will be the game to finally break the stranglhold that cash shops have imposed on consumers. History is in the making.
Not true. LOTRO and ESO both said they were making sub only games and that the games wouldn't change. Both did. Those were commitments. How can you not know this? The ESO thing just happened.
The only game that stood firm was Warhammer, they shut it down rather than make it free to play.
You are wishing on a dream. I'm going to stop wishing you luck now because it's fantasy. If you really think you are a psychic, take the Randi challenge. http://www.skepdic.com/randi.html
If you aren't a psychic then show some evidence how you come up with your predictions. This is magical thinking, it's not based in fact - give fact.
Ah Ha! You are wrong, I know for a fact eso did not hard commit to a sub only game, go back and read everything you can find, I guarantee you the language is written in such a way that there was indeed no hard commitment.
Ok then... how do you feel about the word commitment being used because here it is used several times in black and white. I'd like to quote a lot of it but it'll just make the post larger so check out the links. I've highlighted the "commitment" sections. I guarantee you were wrong today - if you want the LOTRO evidence too I have that from caches since they took it offline but I'm not taking the time to upload it unless you have something worthwhile to offer.
Wow, that's a brave step. Why do you stick to the traditional model? Aren't you afraid that a subscription model won't be able to compete with free-to-play games, especially considering what happened to Star Wars: The Old Republic?
The Elder Scrolls games are all about allowing the player to go where they want, be who they want, and do what they want. We feel that putting pay gates between the player and content at any point in game ruins that feeling of freedom, and just having one small monthly fee for 100% access to the game fits the IP and the game much better than a system where you have to pay for features and access as you play. The Elder Scrolls Online was designed and developed to be a premium experience: hundreds of hours of gameplay, tons of depth and features, professional customer support - and a commitment to have ongoing content at regular intervals after launch. This type of experience is best paired with a one-time fee per month, as opposed to many smaller payments that would probably add up to more than $14.99/month any way.
And it's important to state that our decision to go with subscriptions is not a referendum on online game revenue models. F2P, B2P, etc. are valid, proven business models - but subscription is the one that fits ESO the best, given our commitment to freedom of gameplay, quality and long-term content delivery. Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being "monetized" in the middle of playing the game, which is definitely a problem that is cropping up more and more in online gaming these days. The fact that the word "monetized" exists points to the heart of the issue for us: We don't want the player to worry about which parts of the game to pay for - with our system, they get it all.
TESO was originally rumored to be a free-to-play title. Now that it has been announced that the game will be subscription-based, do you feel confident that it can compete with the many free-to-play games on the market, especially on next gen consoles?
Not to sound flippant, but I think people play, and are drawn, to quality games. I'm not saying that free-to-play games aren't quality games, what I mean more to say is that our commitment to our game has a lot of value, for the money that people are going to spend. I also think that, when people see the updates we have coming post-launch, and when they see our commitment to providing that quality service and content, people will see that they are getting a lot of value for the dollar they are spending.
Leonid Melikhov: Ever since the games launch, Elder Scrolls Online has received a fair bit of criticism for monthly-subscription. Do you guys have plans to change that sometime in the future?
Paul D. Sage: No, we dont have any plans that I am aware of to change it in the future. You know the business model is what the business model is and it allows us to deliver high level content on regular basis right now. So there are no plans that I am aware of.
Now - offer up all your evidence of how this game will break the mold and how it won't suffer from the past or history of other monetized games - something other than your intuition. Something that is based in fact. If you can't think of anything... for gawd sakes, stop quoting me and starting a debate you can't win.
Look, you can live in fantasy land all you like but if you quote me and refute what I say, you need to bring something to the table. You are wasting my time explaining things when you have nothing to offer me in return. I'm going to consider your next quote harassment if it is based on something only existent in your brain alone without anything outside of your head to back it up. That's my commitment lol
This proves nothing. We don't know what Crowfall will do, will they commit? Who knows, your wall of text proves nothing though with respect to eso, and further more, this very website ran an article that has mysteriously vanished, that article questioned the intent of eso business model from the get go, why does that even make news unless there is some merit behind it? Eso and Crowfall are different and Crowfall deserves it's chance, we know zenimax is a liar and they are deceiving with their fine print which you need to go read. The commitment I am referring to is the kind that could bring a class act lawsuit against a company, I want them to lay it out on the line, eso did no such thing and therefore they are free to do what they want with business model, they could cash grab, pay to win and shutdown all in one year and there is no commitment binding them to continue service to you or how that service is to be presented.
Never. Ever. In the entire history of video games, have cash shops gotten less intrusive over time. They always, ALWAYS get worse over time. Every time.
And yet here we are, once again, trying to convince ourselves that this time it will be different....
a game that is going to center around pvp with consequences had best have some sort of money barrier to keep the lolgriefer hordes at bay to a large extent. I am happy they realized that. good by them.
all positive things i see so far from these guys but i wanna see more before i go into hype mode
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
It looks like it's basically the exact same as ESO's
Hopefully we'll see more MMOs adopt the B2P with optional sub model!
Because B2P is just F2P with an upfront cost, this is in improvement exactly how?
F2P games frequently have a subscription option so that isn't the benefit?
The only difference between this and the traditional sub only game is the sub is optional. Almost all titles have a cash shop. so is there really much of a difference in the payment model?
Edit: NM, I keep forgetting, some folks enjoy "dropping" in to play MMO's for the short term, I never consider that possibility as I would automatically sub for any game I chose to return to. I just don't think like most of you.
Maybe it's just me, but every B2P game I have played, didn't shove advertisements to purchase cash shop items or content in my face when playing. The way they design the content flow and style is very different than the way they do it in F2P games and that is a big plus in my book. Of all the negatives that I find with F2P games, it's the immersion destroying game design that is the worst.
Never. Ever. In the entire history of video games, have cash shops gotten less intrusive over time. They always, ALWAYS get worse over time. Every time.
And yet here we are, once again, trying to convince ourselves that this time it will be different....
LOL. so true!
The question of B2P for me is how is the game going to sustain over the long time. With subscription, there is a constant revenue stream to keep game going. Having paid expansions or DLC is one way to go. Cash shops are another. What do people want? If there isn't any revenue stream the game will eventually close.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
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I will skip possible elaboration on GW2 and their promises. The main reason being not highly controversial topic, but my feeling that the word "honest" is bit misplaced here - especially until someone offers any kind of proof that it was the initial ESO plan. Meantime, we are not talking about our brother that gave his word but rather a company adjusting their business model. Let´s say that one can use "honesty" approach if he wants to dramatize
When playing, I am trying to make friends and have fun, not " investing time and money... because of promises".
PS off topic, but I would prefer ESO trying subs on consoles. Furthermore, I am still not convinced that their switch was forced or even just the best option in the long run...but, obviously, it will generate chitloads of short-term revenue. Maybe that was the main motif behind it!?
Simple logic provides all the proof you need.
Or do you seriously consider them changing models right before a major update (that brings players in), while the subs were on a rise (from the discounts in the box price) and RIGHT before a console release (where TES games thrive) to be a coincidence?
Or is it that they have a full working shop already on the PTS? It takes time to make, you know. A whole different financial model does not appear overnight. You need financial advisors and external partners to help you.
And yes, honesty applies differently on companies than on people.. Its not that I'll see a Zeni dev on the street and call him a liar.
But I will definitely not buy another game they make.
They will, indeed, fail in the long run. Console players tend to be way less dedicated in their games, and if you look at all those new shiny games that get released.. Who will look upon 1 and a half year old ESO, especially when they need to pay for a full box price and every month for the priviledge to go online in their console and extra for DLC..
And where will they turn to next? Their loyal fun-base? It went out the door the moment they announced "no updates after 6 until the console players are settled and we see their needs".
They might decide to merge with Wildstar (the other huge success of our times) and make ESO : Wildstar Unleashed..
I will skip possible elaboration on GW2 and their promises. The main reason being not highly controversial topic, but my feeling that the word "honest" is bit misplaced here - especially until someone offers any kind of proof that it was the initial ESO plan. Meantime, we are not talking about our brother that gave his word but rather a company adjusting their business model. Let´s say that one can use "honesty" approach if he wants to dramatize
When playing, I am trying to make friends and have fun, not " investing time and money... because of promises".
PS off topic, but I would prefer ESO trying subs on consoles. Furthermore, I am still not convinced that their switch was forced or even just the best option in the long run...but, obviously, it will generate chitloads of short-term revenue. Maybe that was the main motif behind it!?
Simple logic provides all the proof you need.
Or do you seriously consider them changing models right before a major update (that brings players in), while the subs were on a rise (from the discounts in the box price) and RIGHT before a console release (where TES games thrive) to be a coincidence?
Or is it that they have a full working shop already on the PTS? It takes time to make, you know. A whole different financial model does not appear overnight. You need financial advisors and external partners to help you.
And yes, honesty applies differently on companies than on people.. Its not that I'll see a Zeni dev on the street and call him a liar.
But I will definitely not buy another game they make.
They will, indeed, fail in the long run. Console players tend to be way less dedicated in their games, and if you look at all those new shiny games that get released.. Who will look upon 1 and a half year old ESO, especially when they need to pay for a full box price and every month for the priviledge to go online in their console and extra for DLC..
And where will they turn to next? Their loyal fun-base? It went out the door the moment they announced "no updates after 6 until the console players are settled and we see their needs".
They might decide to merge with Wildstar (the other huge success of our times) and make ESO : Wildstar Unleashed..
Switch certainly didn´t (or, better to say - will not) happen right before consoles launch, and most likely not right before 1.6. - better to say 1.6 should be released cca 3 weeks before BTP.
On "overnight" changes - naturally, they had BTP in works for at least a month or two, and in my opinion it was plan B (or C,D...) from the very beginning.
I am very curious to see how their BTP influences game development in the long run. Note - development, not in terms of revenue (which can be pumped up by clever abuse of IP and cash shop), but rather in terms of quality and actual content. And let´s say that I wouldn´t be satisfied if they end where GW2 is at the moment.
Never. Ever. In the entire history of video games, have cash shops gotten less intrusive over time. They always, ALWAYS get worse over time. Every time.
And yet here we are, once again, trying to convince ourselves that this time it will be different....
LOL. so true!
The question of B2P for me is how is the game going to sustain over the long time. With subscription, there is a constant revenue stream to keep game going. Having paid expansions or DLC is one way to go. Cash shops are another. What do people want? If there isn't any revenue stream the game will eventually close.
I suspect that they are planning on getting the main part of their ongoing funding from the indirect sale of VIP memberships.
It's a competitive PVP game, so quite a few players will be pouring money into the game to gain even the slightest "advantage". Games like World of Tanks are testimony to this fact.
And selling VIP tickets to other players is a great way of raising large amounts of ingame currency to fund your own and/or guilds activities. The game is launching with a "RL money to game gold" conversion built-in.
Never. Ever. In the entire history of video games, have cash shops gotten less intrusive over time. They always, ALWAYS get worse over time. Every time.
And yet here we are, once again, trying to convince ourselves that this time it will be different....
If it launched as P2P people would complain that it would die because it was P2P. Most likely they would end up being B2P with the same cash shop.
With ESO fresh in mind, how would launching as P2P be better for this title?
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Funny, people actimg as if games that changed their business model didnt do so out of necessity. Sure, SWOTR/ESO/and probably WS bragging about how they are commited to "sub model" is dandy, but when actual numbers start rolling in....different story.
So lets look at some hypotethical situations.
1. Game lunches as P2P, cant sustain and has to change to B2P/F2P/whatever
2. If the game wont be able to sustain with the currently advertised model and has to switch to F2P with more agrresive, but still not P2W cash shop
Would you vote for game to shutdown or try to do sustainable model (with cutoffs (read: layoffs) and such.
And for RMT...its hilarious to read some mentioning "good ol' days" when in "good ol' days" RMT was just as bustling as it is today (scope is different, sure, as MMOs grew so did RMT industry but relatively its not much different). RMT will be there no matter what, so companies trying to get piece of what players are willing to (will) spend on their product anyway is a no brainer.
I just wonder why more companies havent adopted PLEX-like system, its a win-win-win situation for company and both seller and buyer.
Pretty much what many games are using now except some are F2P, and others are B2P
What is in common - the cash shop - which is the only way to retain profits over time, optional subs that are sellable in game is just a cash to currency conversion method - which again is very common.
I mean this is very similar to AA - the B2P there was called alpha packs - but it's the same thing.
It remains to be seen what the cash shop will sell over time
My bet is on expansions that can be bought. Kind of how the original GuildWars made money with the B2P model.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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As much of the content involves territory control and that gets "reset" at planned intervals (month, 6 months year..) seems like tons of replayability to me. Then there are the various server rules from factional wars to FFA...
I can see myself being happy in this one for a long time.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Originally posted by Drokkmon Well, there goes my interest in the game. You pay $50 and can only make three characters? That is not acceptable.
PvP-centric games often allow for only one character per account. Three characters is more than enough. Goodbye, and good riddance.
So being less ripped off is good? Pvp-centric game has nothing to do with it. It's still an mmo. You buy a game, you get access to all its content. Three character slots doesn't allow that. But yeah, good riddance. I hope you enjoy the game. Not being sarcastic. It's just not for me.
It is not a themepark game that require you to play different class or different faction to get to see all the content you want. Just play one character and even after that you won't be able to see even 5% of the game has to offer. Forget about content you will be overwhelmed with everything that goes on everyday you won't even have the time to keep that one character properly updated with rest of the community.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
2. Can I spend real world currency buy in-game items or currency?
No. The only things that you can buy from ArtCraft:
- VIP membership tickets I.E : trade for gold in game for p2w
- Cosmetic items that do not affect gameplay I.E trade for gold in game with other players for p2w
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3. What do I get for buying the game?
You get a digital copy of the game and one active game account, which you can use to connect to the live game service.
Each game account allows for three characters, and one “passive training” slot that you can use to train one of your characters – even when you are offline.Sounds more than a little like archeages horabad labor system.
atm it looks like b2p+cash shop+ sub + even when offline ,so forced online afking if you ONLY pay $50 etc.
interesting......
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014. **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
Not true. LOTRO and ESO both said they were making sub only games and that the games wouldn't change. Both did. Those were commitments. How can you not know this? The ESO thing just happened.
Nonsense, I've seen ESO's developers say many times that they chose the payment model that they thought suited them and their game best at the time. The same thing I've seen FFXIV's devs say, despite players claiming "They said they'll sooner shut the game down before converting to F2P!"
People need to stop putting words into devs' mouths and projecting their own wants onto them. Pretty much no business, MMO or otherwise, states absolutes, because it results in loss of face when they have to backpeddle later on. It's all about "at this time", "currently", "for the foreseeable future", etc...
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
People say charging for their client allows them to be 'less aggressive' in their cash shop, yet we see ANet selling things like gold and xp/ loot boosters.... Pretty aggressive to me.
No thanks. It confuses me why the model is so worshiped by so many... It's so arsed about face. But, people are going for it, so I guess they get what they deserve.
anyway they have promised that it won't f2p but subscription is no good these days if you want to make profits. I really like this change, also their Cash shop seemed cleared and their ViP tickets are purchasable also in game. This part reminds FLEX and officially means that they will sell gold xD
Originally posted by Shaigh Originally posted by FoomerangNever. Ever. In the entire history of video games, have cash shops gotten less intrusive over time. They always, ALWAYS get worse over time. Every time. And yet here we are, once again, trying to convince ourselves that this time it will be different....
If it launched as P2P people would complain that it would die because it was P2P. Most likely they would end up being B2P with the same cash shop.
With ESO fresh in mind, how would launching as P2P be better for this title?
Because it wouldn't have a cash shop? I find it ironic that these guys have been preaching how their game is niche and definitely not for everyone. They have started that they are not in this to get rich but to finally realize a dream. Yet with their actions, they have just thrown the largest monetary net they could make. Makes me wonder.
Originally posted by FoomerangNever. Ever. In the entire history of video games, have cash shops gotten less intrusive over time. They always, ALWAYS get worse over time. Every time. And yet here we are, once again, trying to convince ourselves that this time it will be different....
If it launched as P2P people would complain that it would die because it was P2P. Most likely they would end up being B2P with the same cash shop.
With ESO fresh in mind, how would launching as P2P be better for this title?
Because it wouldn't have a cash shop? I find it ironic that these guys have been preaching how their game is niche and definitely not for everyone. They have started that they are not in this to get rich but to finally realize a dream. Yet with their actions, they have just thrown the largest monetary net they could make. Makes me wonder.
I'm not really sure what to think of this. I haven't really played any new MMO's since the GW2 launch. (I did pop in to EQ2 for a couple months, but that was just out of boredom.) I really would like a nice new MMO to play, but I got burned one too many times by these hype trains. I just didn't find the newer games engaging like the older ones used to be.
I understand the need to have an income coming in for the game company. Instead of just jumping on to the next game, they have to pay a staff to maintain and improve a MMO.
However, CF seems to be just throwing all possible pay methods on the wall and seeing what sticks. Box price? Check. Non mandatory monthly subscription?(That we all know will be totally mandatory for proper enjoyment.) Check. Item shop? Check. PLEX system? Check.
What ever happened to ," If you build it they will come." Make a good game people want to play and the success will be there.I know they need to make a profit, I just wonder why do they feel like they have to use EVERY revenue option. It sounds a little desperate to me. Being desperate to make sure they make a profit , right from the get go, makes me feel a little uneasy.
( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)
Hmm. So much temptation. I know I should avoid getting my hopes up as there is a better than average chance that it's going to end up being a wreck, much like Shadowbane. And yet still, I feel the desire to give them my monies.
So you have to buy the game and then have to wait to play in a queue and only get a third of the passive training unless you subscribe... Wow some people are gullible.
Comments
Go to the faq, look at number 2, f2p shops are not like what is being described, this is not a buy to play with a cash shop, the cash shop will sell nothing in game, I repeat nothing. Virtually all other cash shops including GW2 can not say that.All cash shops grow over time. They have to once box sales drop to continue making the same income. You just admitted it yourself, you've seen them grow. So, you think you'll be happy for two months and move and let the next game do the same thing to you. Stuck in a perpetual cycle, spinning around in the hopes that this one will be different. This one will somehow make people pay the sub by guilt - not going to happen. Every cash shop has changed over time. This one is not immune. It competes with all the others and when it adopts their strategy it adopts their histories.
You justify it all you want for yourself. You want to take the leap into free games and you want to comfort yourself about it by saying things will stay as they are and that means you'll ignore the history of every other cash shop in every other game. I wish you luck being accepting but I'm not.
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it - someone wise.
Don't drag us into ramblings - you like it I don't - that's that, two different people thinking two different things.
No development has hard committed, it will be interesting to see if the Crowfall team will commit to a static cash shop, I think they should and are in a position to do just that, if they do, with a money back guarantee if they do not, history will not have repeated itself, rather history will be made as Crowfall will be the game to finally break the stranglhold that cash shops have imposed on consumers. History is in the making.Not true. LOTRO and ESO both said they were making sub only games and that the games wouldn't change. Both did. Those were commitments. How can you not know this? The ESO thing just happened.
The only game that stood firm was Warhammer, they shut it down rather than make it free to play.
You are wishing on a dream. I'm going to stop wishing you luck now because it's fantasy. If you really think you are a psychic, take the Randi challenge. http://www.skepdic.com/randi.html
If you aren't a psychic then show some evidence how you come up with your predictions. This is magical thinking, it's not based in fact - give fact.
Ah Ha! You are wrong, I know for a fact eso did not hard commit to a sub only game, go back and read everything you can find, I guarantee you the language is written in such a way that there was indeed no hard commitment.Ok then... how do you feel about the word commitment being used because here it is used several times in black and white. I'd like to quote a lot of it but it'll just make the post larger so check out the links. I've highlighted the "commitment" sections. I guarantee you were wrong today - if you want the LOTRO evidence too I have that from caches since they took it offline but I'm not taking the time to upload it unless you have something worthwhile to offer.
http://www.gamestar.de/spiele/the-elder-scrolls-online/artikel/the_elder_scrolls_online,44578,3026853.html
"
Wow, that's a brave step. Why do you stick to the traditional model? Aren't you afraid that a subscription model won't be able to compete with free-to-play games, especially considering what happened to Star Wars: The Old Republic?
The Elder Scrolls games are all about allowing the player to go where they want, be who they want, and do what they want. We feel that putting pay gates between the player and content at any point in game ruins that feeling of freedom, and just having one small monthly fee for 100% access to the game fits the IP and the game much better than a system where you have to pay for features and access as you play. The Elder Scrolls Online was designed and developed to be a premium experience: hundreds of hours of gameplay, tons of depth and features, professional customer support - and a commitment to have ongoing content at regular intervals after launch. This type of experience is best paired with a one-time fee per month, as opposed to many smaller payments that would probably add up to more than $14.99/month any way.
And it's important to state that our decision to go with subscriptions is not a referendum on online game revenue models. F2P, B2P, etc. are valid, proven business models - but subscription is the one that fits ESO the best, given our commitment to freedom of gameplay, quality and long-term content delivery. Plus, players will appreciate not having to worry about being "monetized" in the middle of playing the game, which is definitely a problem that is cropping up more and more in online gaming these days. The fact that the word "monetized" exists points to the heart of the issue for us: We don't want the player to worry about which parts of the game to pay for - with our system, they get it all.
"
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/elder-scrolls-online-defends-subscription-fee-with-regular-significant-content/1100-6418221/
http://www.gamereactor.eu/articles/101784/The+Elder+Scrolls+Online:+Creative+Director+Interview/
"
TESO was originally rumored to be a free-to-play title. Now that it has been announced that the game will be subscription-based, do you feel confident that it can compete with the many free-to-play games on the market, especially on next gen consoles?
Not to sound flippant, but I think people play, and are drawn, to quality games. I'm not saying that free-to-play games aren't quality games, what I mean more to say is that our commitment to our game has a lot of value, for the money that people are going to spend. I also think that, when people see the updates we have coming post-launch, and when they see our commitment to providing that quality service and content, people will see that they are getting a lot of value for the dollar they are spending.
"
http://gamingbolt.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-interview-business-model-is-what-the-business-model-is
Leonid Melikhov: Ever since the games launch, Elder Scrolls Online has received a fair bit of criticism for monthly-subscription. Do you guys have plans to change that sometime in the future?
Paul D. Sage: No, we dont have any plans that I am aware of to change it in the future. You know the business model is what the business model is and it allows us to deliver high level content on regular basis right now. So there are no plans that I am aware of.
Now - offer up all your evidence of how this game will break the mold and how it won't suffer from the past or history of other monetized games - something other than your intuition. Something that is based in fact. If you can't think of anything... for gawd sakes, stop quoting me and starting a debate you can't win.
Look, you can live in fantasy land all you like but if you quote me and refute what I say, you need to bring something to the table. You are wasting my time explaining things when you have nothing to offer me in return. I'm going to consider your next quote harassment if it is based on something only existent in your brain alone without anything outside of your head to back it up. That's my commitment lol
This proves nothing. We don't know what Crowfall will do, will they commit? Who knows, your wall of text proves nothing though with respect to eso, and further more, this very website ran an article that has mysteriously vanished, that article questioned the intent of eso business model from the get go, why does that even make news unless there is some merit behind it? Eso and Crowfall are different and Crowfall deserves it's chance, we know zenimax is a liar and they are deceiving with their fine print which you need to go read. The commitment I am referring to is the kind that could bring a class act lawsuit against a company, I want them to lay it out on the line, eso did no such thing and therefore they are free to do what they want with business model, they could cash grab, pay to win and shutdown all in one year and there is no commitment binding them to continue service to you or how that service is to be presented.
Never. Ever. In the entire history of video games, have cash shops gotten less intrusive over time. They always, ALWAYS get worse over time. Every time.
And yet here we are, once again, trying to convince ourselves that this time it will be different....
a game that is going to center around pvp with consequences had best have some sort of money barrier to keep the lolgriefer hordes at bay to a large extent. I am happy they realized that. good by them.
all positive things i see so far from these guys but i wanna see more before i go into hype mode
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
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Maybe it's just me, but every B2P game I have played, didn't shove advertisements to purchase cash shop items or content in my face when playing. The way they design the content flow and style is very different than the way they do it in F2P games and that is a big plus in my book. Of all the negatives that I find with F2P games, it's the immersion destroying game design that is the worst.
LOL. so true!
The question of B2P for me is how is the game going to sustain over the long time. With subscription, there is a constant revenue stream to keep game going. Having paid expansions or DLC is one way to go. Cash shops are another. What do people want? If there isn't any revenue stream the game will eventually close.
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https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Simple logic provides all the proof you need.
Or do you seriously consider them changing models right before a major update (that brings players in), while the subs were on a rise (from the discounts in the box price) and RIGHT before a console release (where TES games thrive) to be a coincidence?
Or is it that they have a full working shop already on the PTS? It takes time to make, you know. A whole different financial model does not appear overnight. You need financial advisors and external partners to help you.
And yes, honesty applies differently on companies than on people.. Its not that I'll see a Zeni dev on the street and call him a liar.
But I will definitely not buy another game they make.
They will, indeed, fail in the long run. Console players tend to be way less dedicated in their games, and if you look at all those new shiny games that get released.. Who will look upon 1 and a half year old ESO, especially when they need to pay for a full box price and every month for the priviledge to go online in their console and extra for DLC..
And where will they turn to next? Their loyal fun-base? It went out the door the moment they announced "no updates after 6 until the console players are settled and we see their needs".
They might decide to merge with Wildstar (the other huge success of our times) and make ESO : Wildstar Unleashed..
Switch certainly didn´t (or, better to say - will not) happen right before consoles launch, and most likely not right before 1.6. - better to say 1.6 should be released cca 3 weeks before BTP.
On "overnight" changes - naturally, they had BTP in works for at least a month or two, and in my opinion it was plan B (or C,D...) from the very beginning.
I am very curious to see how their BTP influences game development in the long run. Note - development, not in terms of revenue (which can be pumped up by clever abuse of IP and cash shop), but rather in terms of quality and actual content. And let´s say that I wouldn´t be satisfied if they end where GW2 is at the moment.
Wait, if you makes that BUY TO PLAY for 50$..
then, we can buy VIP for 15$..
if that's VIP affect soo much about the game, like the Experience, Gold affect..
You're going crazy man, another FAILED Game..
50$ and it's not enough..
LOL
That was a joke from Crowfall..
I suspect that they are planning on getting the main part of their ongoing funding from the indirect sale of VIP memberships.
It's a competitive PVP game, so quite a few players will be pouring money into the game to gain even the slightest "advantage". Games like World of Tanks are testimony to this fact.
And selling VIP tickets to other players is a great way of raising large amounts of ingame currency to fund your own and/or guilds activities. The game is launching with a "RL money to game gold" conversion built-in.
If it launched as P2P people would complain that it would die because it was P2P. Most likely they would end up being B2P with the same cash shop.
With ESO fresh in mind, how would launching as P2P be better for this title?
Funny, people actimg as if games that changed their business model didnt do so out of necessity. Sure, SWOTR/ESO/and probably WS bragging about how they are commited to "sub model" is dandy, but when actual numbers start rolling in....different story.
So lets look at some hypotethical situations.
1. Game lunches as P2P, cant sustain and has to change to B2P/F2P/whatever
2. If the game wont be able to sustain with the currently advertised model and has to switch to F2P with more agrresive, but still not P2W cash shop
Would you vote for game to shutdown or try to do sustainable model (with cutoffs (read: layoffs) and such.
And for RMT...its hilarious to read some mentioning "good ol' days" when in "good ol' days" RMT was just as bustling as it is today (scope is different, sure, as MMOs grew so did RMT industry but relatively its not much different). RMT will be there no matter what, so companies trying to get piece of what players are willing to (will) spend on their product anyway is a no brainer.
I just wonder why more companies havent adopted PLEX-like system, its a win-win-win situation for company and both seller and buyer.
My bet is on expansions that can be bought. Kind of how the original GuildWars made money with the B2P model.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
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Nice. Expect little to no content patches outside expansions.
Though, you'd probably get little to no content patches no matter the revenue model.
As much of the content involves territory control and that gets "reset" at planned intervals (month, 6 months year..) seems like tons of replayability to me. Then there are the various server rules from factional wars to FFA...
I can see myself being happy in this one for a long time.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It is not a themepark game that require you to play different class or different faction to get to see all the content you want. Just play one character and even after that you won't be able to see even 5% of the game has to offer. Forget about content you will be overwhelmed with everything that goes on everyday you won't even have the time to keep that one character properly updated with rest of the community.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
2. Can I spend real world currency buy in-game items or currency?
No. The only things that you can buy from ArtCraft:
- VIP membership tickets I.E : trade for gold in game for p2w
- Cosmetic items that do not affect gameplay I.E trade for gold in game with other players for p2w
<div ng-scope"="">3. What do I get for buying the game?
You get a digital copy of the game and one active game account, which you can use to connect to the live game service.
Each game account allows for three characters, and one “passive training” slot that you can use to train one of your characters – even when you are offline.Sounds more than a little like archeages horabad labor system.
atm it looks like b2p+cash shop+ sub + even when offline ,so forced online afking if you ONLY pay $50 etc.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
Nonsense, I've seen ESO's developers say many times that they chose the payment model that they thought suited them and their game best at the time. The same thing I've seen FFXIV's devs say, despite players claiming "They said they'll sooner shut the game down before converting to F2P!"
People need to stop putting words into devs' mouths and projecting their own wants onto them. Pretty much no business, MMO or otherwise, states absolutes, because it results in loss of face when they have to backpeddle later on. It's all about "at this time", "currently", "for the foreseeable future", etc...
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
B2P is just F2P with a charge to enter the mall.
People say charging for their client allows them to be 'less aggressive' in their cash shop, yet we see ANet selling things like gold and xp/ loot boosters.... Pretty aggressive to me.
No thanks. It confuses me why the model is so worshiped by so many... It's so arsed about face. But, people are going for it, so I guess they get what they deserve.
finally there won't be only GW2
anyway they have promised that it won't f2p but subscription is no good these days if you want to make profits. I really like this change, also their Cash shop seemed cleared and their ViP tickets are purchasable also in game. This part reminds FLEX and officially means that they will sell gold xD
With ESO fresh in mind, how would launching as P2P be better for this title?
Because it wouldn't have a cash shop?
I find it ironic that these guys have been preaching how their game is niche and definitely not for everyone. They have started that they are not in this to get rich but to finally realize a dream. Yet with their actions, they have just thrown the largest monetary net they could make. Makes me wonder.
Ex "Free King" Actly
Heres some real Buy Once,Play Forever in your face Mister Crowfall : http://steamcommunity.com/app/332500/discussions/1/624075566847650975/?l=english
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
I'm not really sure what to think of this. I haven't really played any new MMO's since the GW2 launch. (I did pop in to EQ2 for a couple months, but that was just out of boredom.) I really would like a nice new MMO to play, but I got burned one too many times by these hype trains. I just didn't find the newer games engaging like the older ones used to be.
I understand the need to have an income coming in for the game company. Instead of just jumping on to the next game, they have to pay a staff to maintain and improve a MMO.
However, CF seems to be just throwing all possible pay methods on the wall and seeing what sticks. Box price? Check. Non mandatory monthly subscription?(That we all know will be totally mandatory for proper enjoyment.) Check. Item shop? Check. PLEX system? Check.
What ever happened to ," If you build it they will come." Make a good game people want to play and the success will be there.I know they need to make a profit, I just wonder why do they feel like they have to use EVERY revenue option. It sounds a little desperate to me. Being desperate to make sure they make a profit , right from the get go, makes me feel a little uneasy.
( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)
An acerbic sense of humor is NOT allowed here.
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