I just never enjoyed EQ. It felt mindnumbingly boring. As you said combat was dull as hell and just couldn't put up with it. This was particularly ironic because the way to progress was to grind mobs till the end of time.
a great community is always good to have and if EQ community was good okay, I have no idea, I couldn't get past all the other shortcomings. However when playing lotro I found he community to be great which made the game much more enjoyable.
The world immersion you were referring to, I have experienced in other MMOs. I think a lot of EQ people love EQ because it was their first mmo. This also happens with people who started with other MMOs, e.g. Wow. However EQ fans act all dismissive as if they are the only ones who are allowed to be biased towards their first mmo.
Did you group up? Because it sounds like you tried to solo your way up in levels. EQ was about grouping and figuring out how to take on different mobs with the mix of group members you had. Plus with the paced combat with intentional downtime between pulls you actually had time to GET TO KNOW YOUR GROUP MATES.....that is what made the game amazing...you would learn about the people you had been adventuring with. Modern action combat games give you no time to communicate with group members and learn about them...they might as well be AI controlled group members.
And the reason people aren't playing EQ now (those that loved EQ vanilla) is as they added expansions they destroyed what was great about the game...i.e. they made the game much easier, made soloing so viable that people don't group because of mercenaries you can hire....added fast travel, and a bunch of other things that destroyed the original game.
The most fun I've had in a MMO recently (by recently I mean in the last 5 to 7 years) is when they launched the Time Locked Progression Servers in EQ. Those start off at EQ classic with no expansions and then over time they open up the expansions one at a time. At launch the game is great, even with the old graphics and bad UI by modern standards. But over time as they open up expansions, about 5 or so in, the game just isn't the same and players stop playing. That doesn't mean people don't like EQ it means they don't like EQ in it's current incarnation.
I love EQ Classic and would be playing it now if there was an official EQ Classic server. I'd even pay up to $50/mo to play it, but then again that's me, I have a job so I don't bitch about paying a few cents per hour of entertainment like most of the deadbeats do.
Originally posted by djcincy We aren't out numbered. Every mmo player wants the same thing, but dev's aren't giving it to them... that's why this genre is in this position.
lol ... you don't speak for everyone.
For example, i don't want what you want.
And the market pretty clearly shows that you are in the minority. Just look at how many are playing LoL. You don't think people will play a game for hours if they don't think it is fun, do you?
Originally posted by djcincy We aren't out numbered. Every mmo player wants the same thing, but dev's aren't giving it to them... that's why this genre is in this position.
If by the same thing you mean a good game then yes you are right.
We all have different criteria for what makes a good game though and many many many people are getting what they want which is why the genre I'd in this position.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by djcincy We aren't out numbered. Every mmo player wants the same thing, but dev's aren't giving it to them... that's why this genre is in this position.
lol ... you don't speak for everyone.
For example, i don't want what you want.
And the market pretty clearly shows that you are in the minority. Just look at how many are playing LoL. You don't think people will play a game for hours if they don't think it is fun, do you?
Again, we are discussing MMORPG's here, and you list a non-MMORPG. And we already knew, via 21k + in posts, that you don't like MMORPG's.
Why do you constantly insist on trying to include games such as LoL, D3 (Your favorites to constantly list) as examples towards a MMORPG related thread? It's just silly.
Look, we get you do not like MMORPG's, we get you want fast paced, instant fun for YOU....I don't think there is a need to reiterate it 21,000 times in any MMORPG related post you see.
I mean, how do you even have time to play such games when it seems a large majority of your time is spent here pushing an apparent MMORPG hate agenda? Leave it to those that actually want to discuss MMORPG's and move on to threads that actually interest you and the types of games you actually enjoy. Or do you just enjoy trolling (And seemingly get away with it) and getting the attention? Serious question.
A community full of backstabbers and gankers must have been a really good community. i am glad that kind of community no longer exist. ohh wait, no they indeed exist..looking at DFUW..
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Originally posted by djcincy We aren't out numbered. Every mmo player wants the same thing, but dev's aren't giving it to them... that's why this genre is in this position.
What position is it? MMORPG alone is a billion $ industry now, i am totally disregarding other so called mmo like LoL, Dota2 and what not. So what kind of industry it was back in the "golden time"? it was nothing more than a "kitty party" in the "golden age". it is not nostalgia, even in nostalgia people realizes the mistakes in that time but what is going on with people like you is pure ignorance.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar If by the same thing you mean a good game then yes you are right.
We all have different criteria for what makes a good game though and many many many people are getting what they want which is why the genre I'd in this position.
Also very true sadly.
I personally believe the main factor is the rat race. It's seeped from RL into the MMORPG genre. Everyone is racing everyone else to be #1, have the best gear, be 1st in a category....it's disheartening.
I constantly see people say "I don't have the time do level for months/years", "I don't have the time to try and make friends in an MMORPG, I just want fast fun and be on my way."
Honestly...this is what MMORPG's (At least originally) were intended for and why they sat apart from other types of games, and if you don't have the time and patience for them, then it must not be the genre for you. There is PLENTY of time to play a MMORPG. There aren't time constraints. You can log on whenever you want for as long as you want (Pending maintenance days). Where's the issues with time? Other than as said above...you are impatient and racing everyone else, and can't be bothered with your limited play time a day to be able to stay in the race with others. Especially the MMORPG's that include PvP.
Now they are just larger glorified single player games. It seems to also be why almost all have moved away from the monthly sub model and can't hold subs.
That and sadly...yep, people are stupid and greedy. Many are willing to "buy" fame and glory via cash shops, or to get that advantage. Companies probably make more money off F2P/cash shop games than they would monthly subs because players now have the attention span of a fly.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar If by the same thing you mean a good game then yes you are right.
We all have different criteria for what makes a good game though and many many many people are getting what they want which is why the genre I'd in this position.
Also very true sadly.
I personally believe the main factor is the rat race. It's seeped from RL into the MMORPG genre. Everyone is racing everyone else to be #1, have the best gear, be 1st in a category....it's disheartening.
I constantly see people say "I don't have the time do level for months/years", "I don't have the time to try and make friends in an MMORPG, I just want fast fun and be on my way."
Honestly...this is what MMORPG's (At least originally) were intended for and why they sat apart from other types of games, and if you don't have the time and patience for them, then it must not be the genre for you. There is PLENTY of time to play a MMORPG. There aren't time constraints. You can log on whenever you want for as long as you want (Pending maintenance days). Where's the issues with time? Other than as said above...you are impatient and racing everyone else, and can't be bothered with your limited play time a day to be able to stay in the race with others. Especially the MMORPG's that include PvP.
Now they are just larger glorified single player games. It seems to also be why almost all have moved away from the monthly sub model and can't hold subs.
That and sadly...yep, people are stupid and greedy. Many are willing to "buy" fame and glory via cash shops, or to get that advantage. Companies probably make more money off F2P/cash shop games than they would monthly subs because players now have the attention span of a fly.
LMAO, such nonsense and BS. You and peeps like you who think MMORPG's is only meant to be played how you perceived it's supposed to be played need to get over yourselves.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar If by the same thing you mean a good game then yes you are right.
We all have different criteria for what makes a good game though and many many many people are getting what they want which is why the genre I'd in this position.
Also very true sadly.
I personally believe the main factor is the rat race. It's seeped from RL into the MMORPG genre. Everyone is racing everyone else to be #1, have the best gear, be 1st in a category....it's disheartening.
I constantly see people say "I don't have the time do level for months/years", "I don't have the time to try and make friends in an MMORPG, I just want fast fun and be on my way."
Honestly...this is what MMORPG's (At least originally) were intended for and why they sat apart from other types of games, and if you don't have the time and patience for them, then it must not be the genre for you. There is PLENTY of time to play a MMORPG. There aren't time constraints. You can log on whenever you want for as long as you want (Pending maintenance days). Where's the issues with time? Other than as said above...you are impatient and racing everyone else, and can't be bothered with your limited play time a day to be able to stay in the race with others. Especially the MMORPG's that include PvP.
Now they are just larger glorified single player games. It seems to also be why almost all have moved away from the monthly sub model and can't hold subs.
That and sadly...yep, people are stupid and greedy. Many are willing to "buy" fame and glory via cash shops, or to get that advantage. Companies probably make more money off F2P/cash shop games than they would monthly subs because players now have the attention span of a fly.
LMAO, such nonsense and BS. You and peeps like you who think MMORPG's is only meant to be played how you perceived it's supposed to be played need to get over yourselves.
Um..no. I don't think they all need be how I perceive them and how they should be played, that's for particular "others" on this site to do. There can absolutely be other MMORPG's with other features for a different type of player. What I wrote is to show (I guess not executed well enough) how they were, and what set them apart from other genres of MMO's. This is why there are different types of MMO's in the first place. To cater to different types of players and play styles.
But for like the past 10 years, MMORPG's have been blurred to the point they are no longer even recognizable as MMORPG's. The vast majority of them anyways. They are still labeled as such, but again, they are really just glorified SPG's with other players just happening to be there.
There isn't one like my OP describes...not one. Although more than likely a pipe dream...it would be nice to have just one happen. But alas...money talks. The suits investing the money control the games path...which is to cookie cutter the latest hot trends/fads to get the most subs/players. It's no longer about the gamers making the games, or simply having the passion behind these games to make them unique and truly great. It's a bunch of old guys in suits making the decisions, hence, the hampster wheel of mediocrity we've been getting for the some time now.
Originally posted by Kaledren It's no longer about the gamers making the games, or simply having the passion behind these games to make them unique and truly great. It's a bunch of old guys in suits making the decisions, hence, the hampster wheel of mediocrity we've been getting for the some time now.
Although I agree with your sentiment it is also the consumers buying into it. Until this path of design stops being successful they'll just keep pumping them out. Anymore it seems that gaming/gamers are more about fads, twitch streaming, and getting a quick fix. Not to say that's everyone, just a fairly noticeable trend, even among my coworkers.
Originally posted by djcincy We aren't out numbered. Every mmo player wants the same thing, but dev's aren't giving it to them... that's why this genre is in this position.
lol ... you don't speak for everyone.
For example, i don't want what you want.
And the market pretty clearly shows that you are in the minority. Just look at how many are playing LoL. You don't think people will play a game for hours if they don't think it is fun, do you?
Again, we are discussing MMORPG's here, and you list a non-MMORPG. And we already knew, via 21k + in posts, that you don't like MMORPG's.
Why do you constantly insist on trying to include games such as LoL, D3 (Your favorites to constantly list) as examples towards a MMORPG related thread? It's just silly.
I don't insist .. i just go with the flow. Why do you constantly insist on not including games such as LoL and D3 when many websites are doing it. That is just silly.
Of course, i don't like the traditional MMORPGs .. i like the new broadened MMOs. If not, why wouldn't i be here?
Originally posted by djcincy We aren't out numbered. Every mmo player wants the same thing, but dev's aren't giving it to them... that's why this genre is in this position.
lol ... you don't speak for everyone.
For example, i don't want what you want.
And the market pretty clearly shows that you are in the minority. Just look at how many are playing LoL. You don't think people will play a game for hours if they don't think it is fun, do you?
Again, we are discussing MMORPG's here, and you list a non-MMORPG. And we already knew, via 21k + in posts, that you don't like MMORPG's.
Why do you constantly insist on trying to include games such as LoL, D3 (Your favorites to constantly list) as examples towards a MMORPG related thread? It's just silly.
I don't insist .. i just go with the flow. Why do you constantly insist on not including games such as LoL and D3 when many websites are doing it. That is just silly.
Of course, i don't like the traditional MMORPGs .. i like the new broadened MMOs. If not, why wouldn't i be here?
You either intentionally miss the point, or are really dense. LoL and D3 are NOT MMORPG's. They ARE MMO's, but NOT MMORPG's...key difference being RPG's. Why is this so hard to comprehend?
And again...and again, and again, and again...why come into a thread specifically about MMORPG's and argue your points, that aren't even points on RPG's, using examples of other games THAT ARE NOT MMORPG's?!? If we were discussing MMO's in general, then sure...I'd recognize what you are saying, but we are not here. This thread is SPECIFICALLY about Massive Multiplayer Role Playing Games.
P.S. Saying you don't insist is hilarious. You have thousands of threads/comments that state otherwise.
Originally posted by Kaledren It's no longer about the gamers making the games, or simply having the passion behind these games to make them unique and truly great. It's a bunch of old guys in suits making the decisions, hence, the hampster wheel of mediocrity we've been getting for the some time now.
Although I agree with your sentiment it is also the consumers buying into it. Until this path of design stops being successful they'll just keep pumping them out. Anymore it seems that gaming/gamers are more about fads, twitch streaming, and getting a quick fix. Not to say that's everyone, just a fairly noticeable trend, even among my coworkers.
Well I did mention fads and what's hot at the time in there. I realize that as well.
Why would they change a formula that is still raking them in loads of cash after all.
You either intentionally miss the point, or are really dense. LoL and D3 are NOT MMORPG's. They ARE MMO's, but NOT MMORPG's...key difference being RPG's. Why is this so hard to comprehend?
And again...and again, and again, and again...why come into a thread specifically about MMORPG's and argue your points, that aren't even points on RPG's, using examples of other games THAT ARE NOT MMORPG's?!? If we were discussing MMO's in general, then sure...I'd recognize what you are saying, but we are not here. This thread is SPECIFICALLY about Massive Multiplayer Role Playing Games.
P.S. Saying you don't insist is hilarious. You have thousands of threads/comments that state otherwise.
wow .. i think you are the "insisting" one. Look at all the red and emoticon. We are just talking about games. Calm down.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar If by the same thing you mean a good game then yes you are right.
We all have different criteria for what makes a good game though and many many many people are getting what they want which is why the genre I'd in this position.
Also very true sadly.
I personally believe the main factor is the rat race. It's seeped from RL into the MMORPG genre. Everyone is racing everyone else to be #1, have the best gear, be 1st in a category....it's disheartening.
I constantly see people say "I don't have the time do level for months/years", "I don't have the time to try and make friends in an MMORPG, I just want fast fun and be on my way."
Honestly...this is what MMORPG's (At least originally) were intended for and why they sat apart from other types of games, and if you don't have the time and patience for them, then it must not be the genre for you. There is PLENTY of time to play a MMORPG. There aren't time constraints. You can log on whenever you want for as long as you want (Pending maintenance days). Where's the issues with time? Other than as said above...you are impatient and racing everyone else, and can't be bothered with your limited play time a day to be able to stay in the race with others. Especially the MMORPG's that include PvP.
Now they are just larger glorified single player games. It seems to also be why almost all have moved away from the monthly sub model and can't hold subs.
That and sadly...yep, people are stupid and greedy. Many are willing to "buy" fame and glory via cash shops, or to get that advantage. Companies probably make more money off F2P/cash shop games than they would monthly subs because players now have the attention span of a fly.
The funny thing was, so many of the people who loved EQ didn't even play hardcore. They just enjoyed the challenge it offered both mechanically and socially. If people could only log on for an hour or two every other day, at least what you did was towards something meaningful. It wasn't just following points on a minimap and joining queues for dungeons with random people who rarely even speak to one another. It was meaningful progression.
Originally posted by djcincy We aren't out numbered. Every mmo player wants the same thing, but dev's aren't giving it to them... that's why this genre is in this position.
lol ... you don't speak for everyone.
For example, i don't want what you want.
And the market pretty clearly shows that you are in the minority. Just look at how many are playing LoL. You don't think people will play a game for hours if they don't think it is fun, do you?
What market is that ?? the one that is dieing because its been flooded with a product that we clearly don't want. Everquest has been around what 17 years ? World of warcraft was created for hardcore mmo players and still lives on the nostalgia of the first 3 expansions before they sold out to this casual crowd. Sorry friend, but if they made the game we are talking about we would be playing it. Free to play action mmo's are nothing more than a niche and sooner or later everyone will see that. If the genre has to die and go back into the hands of imaginative nerds to create something good ....then so be it.
You either intentionally miss the point, or are really dense. LoL and D3 are NOT MMORPG's. They ARE MMO's, but NOT MMORPG's...key difference being RPG's. Why is this so hard to comprehend?
And again...and again, and again, and again...why come into a thread specifically about MMORPG's and argue your points, that aren't even points on RPG's, using examples of other games THAT ARE NOT MMORPG's?!? If we were discussing MMO's in general, then sure...I'd recognize what you are saying, but we are not here. This thread is SPECIFICALLY about Massive Multiplayer Role Playing Games.
P.S. Saying you don't insist is hilarious. You have thousands of threads/comments that state otherwise.
wow .. i think you are the "insisting" one. Look at all the red and emoticon. We are just talking about games. Calm down.
You are way too assuming. I am not upset, just completely perplexed with your inability to identify the difference between the highlighted portion of that particular MMO genre and all others. I figured highlighting the RPG, maybe you'd catch on it's different from..oh, IDK...MOBA's, MMOFPS's, etc. I guess I hoped for too much from you.
The emoticon does not mean I'm upset either, it was to signify that someone might as well be running their head into a brick wall then trying to have a two-way discussion with you....get about the same accomplished.
Now if you'd like to discuss MMORPG's, and use say, WoW, EQ2, DoAC, Warhammer, AoC, LoTR, AO, RoM, SWtoR, SWG, or any of the other numerous MMORPG's as comparison examples...ok, let's discuss things, because any of those make more sense to use.
Originally posted by djcincy We aren't out numbered. Every mmo player wants the same thing, but dev's aren't giving it to them... that's why this genre is in this position.
What position is it? MMORPG alone is a billion $ industry now, i am totally disregarding other so called mmo like LoL, Dota2 and what not. So what kind of industry it was back in the "golden time"? it was nothing more than a "kitty party" in the "golden age". it is not nostalgia, even in nostalgia people realizes the mistakes in that time but what is going on with people like you is pure ignorance.
Twilight made over a billion dollars was it a great movie ? do you think it was worth an oscar and did it change movies forever ? nope it was a fad and a pop culture fad doesn't make a piece of garbage any better. Just go down the list of mmo games on this site alone and how many of them would you consider to be great pieces of entertainment ? 1% ?
WAIT oh i get it so this billion dollar industry must be from all these great free to play action mmo's right ? wait sub games make up most of that money ? World of Warcraft ? oh that's right subscription based games are dead.
As far as nostalgia goes Everquest 1 was not only the father of 3d mmo's, but it had 600k subs in an era when subscription based games didn't exist and it wasn't cool to be an internet nerd. It was the game who inspired the greatest game ever created financially in world of warcraft . The game wasn't perfect, but what is... Its beloved for a reason and coming on here to degrade something you don't understand doesn't make us wrong.
This is in regards to a post that was earlier in the thread. It was about why EQ player think their first experience was better then other MMOs players first experience.
EQ wasn't my first MMO experience. Ultima Online was.
I believe the number one reason EQ players are passionate about the game and can't let go/move on easily is because of how much time/energy they invested in the game. I don't think any MMO has every required the time investment that EQ players put in even if it was only a few years. I know a lot of people including myself who played everyday for 6 to 8 hours or even more.
The other thing was that it was a new experience for everyone. All the things we talk about and take for granted in MMOs didn't exist. EQ actually had a lot more to it that just developed out of happenstance then any game today. No one really knew what to expect. The developers just made a world for people to play in. They didn't know what the players would do with it or the classes. A lot of unforeseen things happened that weren't anticipated by the developers. This is the type of experience you can only really have when something is new. Once rules have been developed and everything has been figured out for the most part you get less and less freedom for the players and more and more control for the developers. People today may be playing their first MMO, but likely they already know a lot about MMO game mechanics from word of mouth.
I agree with this for the most part. No matter how I try I cannot get into today's games for more than a couple of months at the most. The lack of immersion, the focus on instant gratification and cash shops just kills it.
I like the feeling of being in a living breathing world which is missing from the games today.
As much as i try after two months with any post Wow mmo i either get sick of the community or bored of the game itself. I like mmo's before they became mainstream games. The mmo's before Wow will always be better because they were real mmo's. Sorry but the mmo's now are for the ADD crowd. Been trying to get into ESO but i don't even login to it anymore. Man i really miss those Anarchy online/Earth & Beyond mmo days so much. Truely the only times i had so much fun playing mmo's.
I agree with this for the most part. No matter how I try I cannot get into today's games for more than a couple of months at the most. The lack of immersion, the focus on instant gratification and cash shops just kills it.
I like the feeling of being in a living breathing world which is missing from the games today.
As much as i try after two months with any post Wow mmo i either get sick of the community or bored of the game itself. I like mmo's before they became mainstream games. The mmo's before Wow will always be better because they were real mmo's. Sorry but the mmo's now are for the ADD crowd. Been trying to get into ESO but i don't even login to it anymore.
Yeah, it's hard to be pushed aside and looked down upon by these people that have no vested interest in MMORPGs. Some will even come out and say that they do not care about the genre.
I don't see any of their MMORPGs having 450K players after the first 3 months after launch. Yet some how, they are compelled to tell us how wrong we are and our way sucks. I mean, just look at these charts, etc etc.
They spend hours explaining the psuedo-economist side of gaming. I only want to know is if I can have fun playing the game for at least a year or more. I was perfectly happy with playing the same awesome game for year after year.
They demand these changes and then don't even stand by them. They scamper off for a new game 4 weeks later. I can at least respect someone for standing up for what he believes in. But they can't even do that.
Hell, I know I don't take the popular stance on certain issues, but at least I stick with it.
This is in regards to a post that was earlier in the thread. It was about why EQ player think their first experience was better then other MMOs players first experience.
EQ wasn't my first MMO experience. Ultima Online was.
I believe the number one reason EQ players are passionate about the game and can't let go/move on easily is because of how much time/energy they invested in the game. I don't think any MMO has every required the time investment that EQ players put in even if it was only a few years. I know a lot of people including myself who played everyday for 6 to 8 hours or even more.
The other thing was that it was a new experience for everyone. All the things we talk about and take for granted in MMOs didn't exist. EQ actually had a lot more to it that just developed out of happenstance then any game today. No one really knew what to expect. The developers just made a world for people to play in. They didn't know what the players would do with it or the classes. A lot of unforeseen things happened that weren't anticipated by the developers. This is the type of experience you can only really have when something is new. Once rules have been developed and everything has been figured out for the most part you get less and less freedom for the players and more and more control for the developers. People today may be playing their first MMO, but likely they already know a lot about MMO game mechanics from word of mouth.
Its that, but its also much more than that. Not only was the world and players story open ended, classes and game mechanics were very open ended. You could play a class in many different ways. The way EQ was designed facilitated creativity. Modern games are very cut and dry about their mechanics and anything beyond their originally intended purpose is considered an exploit and gets nerfed before even hitting beta. Things like feign death pulling, chaining pets, using multiple charmers to trivialize content but at a very high risk to players are the kind of things that made the entire experience fascinating and were in no way intended or even imagined by those who created the game.
It was also the level or risk (vs reward) that inspired players to try new things. Even to this day on emu servers, we find new ways of doing encounters that we've done successfully for years. Content that took 50 people minimum in 2000 we do with half that with nothing different but a better understanding of the game and its mechanics. Thats truly unique.
Comments
Did you group up? Because it sounds like you tried to solo your way up in levels. EQ was about grouping and figuring out how to take on different mobs with the mix of group members you had. Plus with the paced combat with intentional downtime between pulls you actually had time to GET TO KNOW YOUR GROUP MATES.....that is what made the game amazing...you would learn about the people you had been adventuring with. Modern action combat games give you no time to communicate with group members and learn about them...they might as well be AI controlled group members.
And the reason people aren't playing EQ now (those that loved EQ vanilla) is as they added expansions they destroyed what was great about the game...i.e. they made the game much easier, made soloing so viable that people don't group because of mercenaries you can hire....added fast travel, and a bunch of other things that destroyed the original game.
The most fun I've had in a MMO recently (by recently I mean in the last 5 to 7 years) is when they launched the Time Locked Progression Servers in EQ. Those start off at EQ classic with no expansions and then over time they open up the expansions one at a time. At launch the game is great, even with the old graphics and bad UI by modern standards. But over time as they open up expansions, about 5 or so in, the game just isn't the same and players stop playing. That doesn't mean people don't like EQ it means they don't like EQ in it's current incarnation.
I love EQ Classic and would be playing it now if there was an official EQ Classic server. I'd even pay up to $50/mo to play it, but then again that's me, I have a job so I don't bitch about paying a few cents per hour of entertainment like most of the deadbeats do.
lol ... you don't speak for everyone.
For example, i don't want what you want.
And the market pretty clearly shows that you are in the minority. Just look at how many are playing LoL. You don't think people will play a game for hours if they don't think it is fun, do you?
+1
We all have different criteria for what makes a good game though and many many many people are getting what they want which is why the genre I'd in this position.
Again, we are discussing MMORPG's here, and you list a non-MMORPG. And we already knew, via 21k + in posts, that you don't like MMORPG's.
Why do you constantly insist on trying to include games such as LoL, D3 (Your favorites to constantly list) as examples towards a MMORPG related thread? It's just silly.
Look, we get you do not like MMORPG's, we get you want fast paced, instant fun for YOU....I don't think there is a need to reiterate it 21,000 times in any MMORPG related post you see.
I mean, how do you even have time to play such games when it seems a large majority of your time is spent here pushing an apparent MMORPG hate agenda? Leave it to those that actually want to discuss MMORPG's and move on to threads that actually interest you and the types of games you actually enjoy. Or do you just enjoy trolling (And seemingly get away with it) and getting the attention? Serious question.
Sheesh.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
What position is it? MMORPG alone is a billion $ industry now, i am totally disregarding other so called mmo like LoL, Dota2 and what not. So what kind of industry it was back in the "golden time"? it was nothing more than a "kitty party" in the "golden age". it is not nostalgia, even in nostalgia people realizes the mistakes in that time but what is going on with people like you is pure ignorance.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Also very true sadly.
I personally believe the main factor is the rat race. It's seeped from RL into the MMORPG genre. Everyone is racing everyone else to be #1, have the best gear, be 1st in a category....it's disheartening.
I constantly see people say "I don't have the time do level for months/years", "I don't have the time to try and make friends in an MMORPG, I just want fast fun and be on my way."
Honestly...this is what MMORPG's (At least originally) were intended for and why they sat apart from other types of games, and if you don't have the time and patience for them, then it must not be the genre for you. There is PLENTY of time to play a MMORPG. There aren't time constraints. You can log on whenever you want for as long as you want (Pending maintenance days). Where's the issues with time? Other than as said above...you are impatient and racing everyone else, and can't be bothered with your limited play time a day to be able to stay in the race with others. Especially the MMORPG's that include PvP.
Now they are just larger glorified single player games. It seems to also be why almost all have moved away from the monthly sub model and can't hold subs.
That and sadly...yep, people are stupid and greedy. Many are willing to "buy" fame and glory via cash shops, or to get that advantage. Companies probably make more money off F2P/cash shop games than they would monthly subs because players now have the attention span of a fly.
LMAO, such nonsense and BS. You and peeps like you who think MMORPG's is only meant to be played how you perceived it's supposed to be played need to get over yourselves.
Um..no. I don't think they all need be how I perceive them and how they should be played, that's for particular "others" on this site to do. There can absolutely be other MMORPG's with other features for a different type of player. What I wrote is to show (I guess not executed well enough) how they were, and what set them apart from other genres of MMO's. This is why there are different types of MMO's in the first place. To cater to different types of players and play styles.
But for like the past 10 years, MMORPG's have been blurred to the point they are no longer even recognizable as MMORPG's. The vast majority of them anyways. They are still labeled as such, but again, they are really just glorified SPG's with other players just happening to be there.
There isn't one like my OP describes...not one. Although more than likely a pipe dream...it would be nice to have just one happen. But alas...money talks. The suits investing the money control the games path...which is to cookie cutter the latest hot trends/fads to get the most subs/players. It's no longer about the gamers making the games, or simply having the passion behind these games to make them unique and truly great. It's a bunch of old guys in suits making the decisions, hence, the hampster wheel of mediocrity we've been getting for the some time now.
Although I agree with your sentiment it is also the consumers buying into it. Until this path of design stops being successful they'll just keep pumping them out. Anymore it seems that gaming/gamers are more about fads, twitch streaming, and getting a quick fix. Not to say that's everyone, just a fairly noticeable trend, even among my coworkers.
I don't insist .. i just go with the flow. Why do you constantly insist on not including games such as LoL and D3 when many websites are doing it. That is just silly.
Of course, i don't like the traditional MMORPGs .. i like the new broadened MMOs. If not, why wouldn't i be here?
You either intentionally miss the point, or are really dense. LoL and D3 are NOT MMORPG's. They ARE MMO's, but NOT MMORPG's...key difference being RPG's. Why is this so hard to comprehend?
And again...and again, and again, and again...why come into a thread specifically about MMORPG's and argue your points, that aren't even points on RPG's, using examples of other games THAT ARE NOT MMORPG's?!? If we were discussing MMO's in general, then sure...I'd recognize what you are saying, but we are not here. This thread is SPECIFICALLY about Massive Multiplayer Role Playing Games.
P.S. Saying you don't insist is hilarious. You have thousands of threads/comments that state otherwise.
Well I did mention fads and what's hot at the time in there. I realize that as well.
Why would they change a formula that is still raking them in loads of cash after all.
wow .. i think you are the "insisting" one. Look at all the red and emoticon. We are just talking about games. Calm down.
which formula are we talking about? The themepark formula is already done for ... now the "new" formula is MOBAs, and other online games.
The funny thing was, so many of the people who loved EQ didn't even play hardcore. They just enjoyed the challenge it offered both mechanically and socially. If people could only log on for an hour or two every other day, at least what you did was towards something meaningful. It wasn't just following points on a minimap and joining queues for dungeons with random people who rarely even speak to one another. It was meaningful progression.
What market is that ?? the one that is dieing because its been flooded with a product that we clearly don't want. Everquest has been around what 17 years ? World of warcraft was created for hardcore mmo players and still lives on the nostalgia of the first 3 expansions before they sold out to this casual crowd. Sorry friend, but if they made the game we are talking about we would be playing it. Free to play action mmo's are nothing more than a niche and sooner or later everyone will see that. If the genre has to die and go back into the hands of imaginative nerds to create something good ....then so be it.
You are way too assuming. I am not upset, just completely perplexed with your inability to identify the difference between the highlighted portion of that particular MMO genre and all others. I figured highlighting the RPG, maybe you'd catch on it's different from..oh, IDK...MOBA's, MMOFPS's, etc. I guess I hoped for too much from you.
The emoticon does not mean I'm upset either, it was to signify that someone might as well be running their head into a brick wall then trying to have a two-way discussion with you....get about the same accomplished.
Now if you'd like to discuss MMORPG's, and use say, WoW, EQ2, DoAC, Warhammer, AoC, LoTR, AO, RoM, SWtoR, SWG, or any of the other numerous MMORPG's as comparison examples...ok, let's discuss things, because any of those make more sense to use.
Twilight made over a billion dollars was it a great movie ? do you think it was worth an oscar and did it change movies forever ? nope it was a fad and a pop culture fad doesn't make a piece of garbage any better. Just go down the list of mmo games on this site alone and how many of them would you consider to be great pieces of entertainment ? 1% ?
WAIT oh i get it so this billion dollar industry must be from all these great free to play action mmo's right ? wait sub games make up most of that money ? World of Warcraft ? oh that's right subscription based games are dead.
As far as nostalgia goes Everquest 1 was not only the father of 3d mmo's, but it had 600k subs in an era when subscription based games didn't exist and it wasn't cool to be an internet nerd. It was the game who inspired the greatest game ever created financially in world of warcraft . The game wasn't perfect, but what is... Its beloved for a reason and coming on here to degrade something you don't understand doesn't make us wrong.
This is in regards to a post that was earlier in the thread. It was about why EQ player think their first experience was better then other MMOs players first experience.
EQ wasn't my first MMO experience. Ultima Online was.
I believe the number one reason EQ players are passionate about the game and can't let go/move on easily is because of how much time/energy they invested in the game. I don't think any MMO has every required the time investment that EQ players put in even if it was only a few years. I know a lot of people including myself who played everyday for 6 to 8 hours or even more.
The other thing was that it was a new experience for everyone. All the things we talk about and take for granted in MMOs didn't exist. EQ actually had a lot more to it that just developed out of happenstance then any game today. No one really knew what to expect. The developers just made a world for people to play in. They didn't know what the players would do with it or the classes. A lot of unforeseen things happened that weren't anticipated by the developers. This is the type of experience you can only really have when something is new. Once rules have been developed and everything has been figured out for the most part you get less and less freedom for the players and more and more control for the developers. People today may be playing their first MMO, but likely they already know a lot about MMO game mechanics from word of mouth.
As much as i try after two months with any post Wow mmo i either get sick of the community or bored of the game itself. I like mmo's before they became mainstream games. The mmo's before Wow will always be better because they were real mmo's. Sorry but the mmo's now are for the ADD crowd. Been trying to get into ESO but i don't even login to it anymore. Man i really miss those Anarchy online/Earth & Beyond mmo days so much. Truely the only times i had so much fun playing mmo's.
Yeah, it's hard to be pushed aside and looked down upon by these people that have no vested interest in MMORPGs. Some will even come out and say that they do not care about the genre.
I don't see any of their MMORPGs having 450K players after the first 3 months after launch. Yet some how, they are compelled to tell us how wrong we are and our way sucks. I mean, just look at these charts, etc etc.
They spend hours explaining the psuedo-economist side of gaming. I only want to know is if I can have fun playing the game for at least a year or more. I was perfectly happy with playing the same awesome game for year after year.
They demand these changes and then don't even stand by them. They scamper off for a new game 4 weeks later. I can at least respect someone for standing up for what he believes in. But they can't even do that.
Hell, I know I don't take the popular stance on certain issues, but at least I stick with it.
Its that, but its also much more than that. Not only was the world and players story open ended, classes and game mechanics were very open ended. You could play a class in many different ways. The way EQ was designed facilitated creativity. Modern games are very cut and dry about their mechanics and anything beyond their originally intended purpose is considered an exploit and gets nerfed before even hitting beta. Things like feign death pulling, chaining pets, using multiple charmers to trivialize content but at a very high risk to players are the kind of things that made the entire experience fascinating and were in no way intended or even imagined by those who created the game.
It was also the level or risk (vs reward) that inspired players to try new things. Even to this day on emu servers, we find new ways of doing encounters that we've done successfully for years. Content that took 50 people minimum in 2000 we do with half that with nothing different but a better understanding of the game and its mechanics. Thats truly unique.
That made EQ different and special.