Personally I loved my days/months/even years in EQ and will always have fond memories of it.
However, I do believe nostalgia is a big part. We can cite the lack of Mmo's back then, that technology (i.e internet) was limited and not as widespread, or even things from the game itself.
The real fact is. Times have changed...and with it so too have the games we now play have changed. Evolved. Mutated. Whatever word you wish to put there.
Either like the direction they took or hate it, it's now part of the past and all we can do is find something we enjoy to play now. Adapt or abandon.
Maybe a game will come around which will give us a semblance of what we felt and enjoyed with EQ/UO/SWG etc. or maybe it will never happen.
All I know is I can't go back, not even to the original EQ. It had its time in the spotlight and now I look to newer and better things for myself. Nothing can last forever. In games or in life.
Personally I loved my days/months/even years in EQ and will always have fond memories of it.
However, I do believe nostalgia is a big part. We can cite the lack of Mmo's back then, that technology (i.e internet) was limited and not as widespread, or even things from the game itself.
The real fact is. Times have changed...and with it so too have the games we now play have changed. Evolved. Mutated. Whatever word you wish to put there.
Either like the direction they took or hate it, it's now part of the past and all we can do is find something we enjoy to play now. Adapt or abandon.
Maybe a game will come around which will give us a semblance of what we felt and enjoyed with EQ/UO/SWG etc. or maybe it will never happen.
All I know is I can't go back, not even to the original EQ. It had its time in the spotlight and now I look to newer and better things for myself. Nothing can last forever. In games or in life.
Just my two cents.
More and more players are choosing to abandon, unfortunately.
I agree with this for the most part. No matter how I try I cannot get into today's games for more than a couple of months at the most. The lack of immersion, the focus on instant gratification and cash shops just kills it.
I like the feeling of being in a living breathing world which is missing from the games today.
As much as i try after two months with any post Wow mmo i either get sick of the community or bored of the game itself. I like mmo's before they became mainstream games. The mmo's before Wow will always be better because they were real mmo's. Sorry but the mmo's now are for the ADD crowd. Been trying to get into ESO but i don't even login to it anymore. Man i really miss those Anarchy online/Earth & Beyond mmo days so much. Truely the only times i had so much fun playing mmo's.
So the people who don't share your preferences have a mental disorder? Got it.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Regardless of Brad McQuaids spotted past, I really hope Pantheon manages to pull through. Just read the tenets and features or listen to the latest roundtable and you know, without a doubt, that game is being designed with the exact same principles as EQ with many new features of the same spirit.
Really .. is taking-a-number camping making a come-back? I would love to see how many would want to do that.
BTW, thank you for the info. Now I know I don't have to waste a single min on Pantheon .. even if it is f2p.
You love to point out the worst or weakest bits and throw it in people's faces, despite their intent to show over-all appeal. No game is perfect in every regard, but the old games did and still have many things about them that are appealing. If all you can do is tear a discussion down by derailing it with superfluous points that aren't even relevant to the discussion, then why reply at all other than to bait or demean points of views that don't coincide with your own.
I personally had a love / hate relationship with EQ. I loved the size of the world, the complexity of the classes and their skill sets and spells. I enjoyed the slower pace of combat and the ability to think about how a battle went instead of the current 10 second paradigm. The exploration factor, the fear factor, the helpful community, the east commons tunnel.....etc.
I hated the focus on raiding, the relentless corpse runs when trying to explore, the elitist side of the community, the complete focus on camping, respawn times and drop rates...etc.
I'd love to see a revamped, updated and improved EQ that is a good mix of the old and the new. Most importantly is that it be a MMORPG and not a MOBA, MOG, AARPG, FPS....blah....blah.....blah. I'm fine with there being some that are merely arcade games with some RPG elements that appeal to gamers like you, but there is no reason why gamers like me can't get a few modern games that cater to us.
Yes, I could still be playing EQ, but after doing so on and off for the last 10 years, I'm ready for something fresh.
Regardless of Brad McQuaids spotted past, I really hope Pantheon manages to pull through. Just read the tenets and features or listen to the latest roundtable and you know, without a doubt, that game is being designed with the exact same principles as EQ with many new features of the same spirit.
Really .. is taking-a-number camping making a come-back? I would love to see how many would want to do that.
BTW, thank you for the info. Now I know I don't have to waste a single min on Pantheon .. even if it is f2p.
You love to point out the worst or weakest bits and throw it in people's faces, despite their intent to show over-all appeal. No game is perfect in every regard, but the old games did and still have many things about them that are appealing. If all you can do is tear a discussion down by derailing it with superfluous points that aren't even relevant to the discussion, then why reply at all other than to bait or demean points of views that don't coincide with your own.
I personally had a love / hate relationship with EQ. I loved the size of the world, the complexity of the classes and their skill sets and spells. I enjoyed the slower pace of combat and the ability to think about how a battle went instead of the current 10 second paradigm. The exploration factor, the fear factor, the helpful community, the east commons tunnel.....etc.
I hated the focus on raiding, the relentless corpse runs when trying to explore, the elitist side of the community, the complete focus on camping, respawn times and drop rates...etc.
I'd love to see a revamped, updated and improved EQ that is a good mix of the old and the new. Most importantly is that it be a MMORPG and not a MOBA, MOG, AARPG, FPS....blah....blah.....blah. I'm fine with there being some that are merely arcade games with some RPG elements that appeal to gamers like you, but there is no reason why gamers like me can't get a few modern games that cater to us.
Yes, I could still be playing EQ, but after doing so on and off for the last 10 years, I'm ready for something fresh.
What he doesn't care to understand (which is why everyone blocks him) is that people who actually played EQ don't generally regard camping mobs as the worst or weakest aspect of the game. Compared to modern alternatives to camping, I'd take it in a second. The dungeons were huge and dangerous. The challenge and reward of actually getting a rare item from a rare spawn was meaningful and exciting. If some people would rather go into their lobby games and dial-a-dungeon instance with a bunch of strangers who seldom, if ever, communicate with each other because there is generally no reason to, thats their prerogative. For those of us who enjoy contested open world content and the opportunity to meet people and work together or against other players, they too should have the option.
There is no right or wrong preference involved here.
What he doesn't care to understand (and the reason everyone blocks him) is that people who actually played EQ don't generally regard camping mobs as the worst or weakest aspect of the game. Compared to modern alternatives to camping, I'd take it in a second. The dungeons were huge and dangerous. The challenge and reward of actually getting a rare item from a rare spawn was meaningful and exciting. If some people would rather go into their lobby games and dial-a-dungeon instance with a bunch of strangers who seldom, if ever, communicate with each other because there is generally no reason to, thats their prerogative. For those of us who enjoy contested open world content and the opportunity to meet people and work together or against other players is what made it fun.
That's one of the real issues with Nari. Although I am sometimes in agreement with his point of views, it's the lack of respect for those with opposing point of views that probably make him unpopular/blocked as you'd put it. I dislike lobby games though.
Whether or not he cares to actually discuss things here or just likes to post out of boredom/baiting is totally irrelevant to me.
Nostalgia / rose colored glasses is a flat out flawed argument period and should never be used by anyone.
Rather than actually addressing what people think is bad about the game they attack the player saying they do not remember correctly without providing any examples of where that is true. That is only just the surface.... there are so many logical fallacies within the rose colored glasses/nostalgia argument that it just boggles my mind how common it is used.
I agree with this for the most part. No matter how I try I cannot get into today's games for more than a couple of months at the most. The lack of immersion, the focus on instant gratification and cash shops just kills it.
I like the feeling of being in a living breathing world which is missing from the games today.
As much as i try after two months with any post Wow mmo i either get sick of the community or bored of the game itself. I like mmo's before they became mainstream games. The mmo's before Wow will always be better because they were real mmo's. Sorry but the mmo's now are for the ADD crowd. Been trying to get into ESO but i don't even login to it anymore.
Yeah, it's hard to be pushed aside and looked down upon by these people that have no vested interest in MMORPGs. Some will even come out and say that they do not care about the genre.
I don't see any of their MMORPGs having 450K players after the first 3 months after launch. Yet some how, they are compelled to tell us how wrong we are and our way sucks. I mean, just look at these charts, etc etc.
They spend hours explaining the psuedo-economist side of gaming. I only want to know is if I can have fun playing the game for at least a year or more. I was perfectly happy with playing the same awesome game for year after year.
They demand these changes and then don't even stand by them. They scamper off for a new game 4 weeks later. I can at least respect someone for standing up for what he believes in. But they can't even do that.
Hell, I know I don't take the popular stance on certain issues, but at least I stick with it.
Gold, pure gold.
I just loathe the way the MMO tourists bunny hop from game to game, first crying that it is not the same then crying that it is boring ..... and on to the next new shiny experience for one to three months.
Originally posted by djcincy We aren't out numbered. Every mmo player wants the same thing, but dev's aren't giving it to them... that's why this genre is in this position.
lol ... you don't speak for everyone.
For example, i don't want what you want.
And the market pretty clearly shows that you are in the minority. Just look at how many are playing LoL. You don't think people will play a game for hours if they don't think it is fun, do you?
Again, we are discussing MMORPG's here, and you list a non-MMORPG. And we already knew, via 21k + in posts, that you don't like MMORPG's.
Why do you constantly insist on trying to include games such as LoL, D3 (Your favorites to constantly list) as examples towards a MMORPG related thread? It's just silly.
I don't insist .. i just go with the flow. Why do you constantly insist on not including games such as LoL and D3 when many websites are doing it. That is just silly.
Of course, i don't like the traditional MMORPGs .. i like the new broadened MMOs. If not, why wouldn't i be here?
Its that, but its also much more than that. Not only was the world and players story open ended, classes and game mechanics were very open ended. You could play a class in many different ways. The way EQ was designed facilitated creativity. Modern games are very cut and dry about their mechanics and anything beyond their originally intended purpose is considered an exploit and gets nerfed before even hitting beta. Things like feign death pulling, chaining pets, using multiple charmers to trivialize content but at a very high risk to players are the kind of things that made the entire experience fascinating and were in no way intended or even imagined by those who created the game.
It was also the level or risk (vs reward) that inspired players to try new things. Even to this day on emu servers, we find new ways of doing encounters that we've done successfully for years. Content that took 50 people minimum in 2000 we do with half that with nothing different but a better understanding of the game and its mechanics. Thats truly unique.
That made EQ different and special.
I agree. It really is a issue of player freedom.
In regards to class roles: Sure, every once in awhile you may see something like a Mage running around with a 2-handed sword, sporting a plate upper and cloth armor for the rest (this can be slightly immersion breaking for some, or just plain funny for others like myself); but there are ways of getting around this without putting a brick wall in front of a player and saying "you will fill this role, and this role alone". Giving bonuses for pairing certain skills is a example, and may dissuade such individuals from making ridiculous combinations.
Once again I concur. Risk and reward is in everything. Why water it down in a MMOG?
Never got to play EQ in it's heyday (to busy playing SPRPGs at that point in time). If it really was as great as some of the posts I've read, then I definitely miss out on something.
The code of the pessimistic loner: "We unpopular loners are realists, who follow the three non- popular principles: Not having any (Hope), Not making any (Gaps in your heart); And not giving into (Sweet talk)".
I can relate to a lot of what you were saying, especially for vanilla EQ and vanilla VG. I can relate it to other games too like Morrowind vs Skyrim.
Sure Skyrim looks pretty and has a big open world but nothing will beat the harsh unforgiving world and learning curve of Morrowind, where you had to take risks and make mistakes to get anywhere. The story is much deeper and the overall experience is better, I feel the same when thinking about EQ/VG and then compare them to all the other games we get spoon fed these days.
They all have big shiny buttons, glowing titles, achievements and instant gratification rewards that keep people quickly churning through meaningless content but when you reach the end you don't feel satisfied or feel that you have learned anything or gained any meaningful experiences or memories.
With the original EQ, original VG and Morrowind I felt that and I hope to feel that again soon in Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen.
Thanks for putting the effort into writing this, it was a good read
. No game is perfect in every regard, but the old games did and still have many things about them that are appealing. If all you can do is tear a discussion down by derailing it with superfluous points that aren't even relevant to the discussion, then why reply at all other than to bait or demean points of views that don't coincide with your own.
Not to me. You think camping is superfluous? I supposed you have never played EQ at its heyday. Camping is basically what everyone does most of the time in EQ.
So you imply while you can air your preferences (i.e. loving taking a number and wait for your turn to kill the boss with 50 people helping you), I cannot air my preferences that this kind of gaming is uttering boring?
Never got to play EQ in it's heyday (to busy playing SPRPGs at that point in time). If it really was as great as some of the posts I've read, then I definitely miss out on something.
If you like waiting in line, chatting with strangers, and yelling at people who jump the line to kill the boss, yeah, you missed a lot.
If you were like me, who think that was a waste of my time, you would be clamoring to get that time back.
People who say our wish to have some old school style MMOs made today is just nostalgia simply lack the ability to understand people have different tastes. To me it is the epitome of arrogance to tell me why I want a certain style of MMO. It is a lazy argument from people who either just don't want to listen to your point of view, or think that everyone has to think like they do.
. No game is perfect in every regard, but the old games did and still have many things about them that are appealing. If all you can do is tear a discussion down by derailing it with superfluous points that aren't even relevant to the discussion, then why reply at all other than to bait or demean points of views that don't coincide with your own.
Not to me. You think camping is superfluous? I supposed you have never played EQ at its heyday. Camping is basically what everyone does most of the time in EQ.
So you imply while you can air your preferences (i.e. loving taking a number and wait for your turn to kill the boss with 50 people helping you), I cannot air my preferences that this kind of gaming is uttering boring?
Now that is a double standard.
I personally and sincerely don't give a crap if you air your opinion it is boring, what I cannot stand is people telling me the only reason I miss this style of MMO is nostalgia. Was everything perfect in these? Of course not. I would not want a carbon copy EQ with new graphics, I want some innovation in there as well. What i don't want is for it to cater to the "gotta have it now" easy mode solo to max 3 days after release crowd
I've come to terms with the fact that it's hard for another game to live up to the memories a person forged in their first MMORPG. Something as simple as listening to a game's soundtrack brings those memories flooding back.
I look back to my first (FFXI), and while I had a lot of fun with it I know that I wouldn't be able to play a game at a different time in my life that requires that amount of a time commitment.
FFXIV has filled the void for me and I enjoy the game very much, but you can't get back those first time experiences because as a veteran MMORPG player there aren't going to be many firsts anymore. You just have to enjoy the game you're playing for what it is.
Originally posted by DMKano Would i love to play a AAA Vanilla EQ1 clone in 2015? Hell yes
Realistic chances of this happening - about 0.000001%
Being a minority can be a real bitch.
It really is...
The "funny" thing is that such a great percentage of players of these new games rarely spend any significant amount of money (say $15/month) in them. So the masses get to play games designed for the few who spend money.
Old games were enjoyed by players where 100% of them paid to play them. (Talk about commitment!) Today, who knows if players actually enjoy them. Hell, "It's FREE!" seems to be all that matters to them.
I guess us "old timers" are the majority in spending money, but that does not seem to be enough...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I agree that it is not just nostalgia. . but some parts can't happen again.
Open world, real danger etc. Those things were killed by the instant look up on the internet. Once you have instant maps and info the world shrinks drastically and then travel can seem like a time sink.
Danger is mitigated by having instant information. They have two choices. . make it harder to counter that or make it easier so that people can be successful without having to look it up. If they make it harder then people who don't scour forums will have no chance and if they make it easier then. . well . . we know what happens then.
Aside from that I agree with your many well thought out points! I miss those days as well. People have tried to replicate this with hidden areas etc. but they are on youtube in a week.
VR or procedurally generated words and monsters is the only way I see this changing. At least some randomness to encounters.
I agree that it is not just nostalgia. . but some parts can't happen again.
Open world, real danger etc. Those things were killed by the instant look up on the internet. Once you have instant maps and info the world shrinks drastically and then travel can seem like a time sink.
Danger is mitigated by having instant information. They have two choices. . make it harder to counter that or make it easier so that people can be successful without having to look it up. If they make it harder then people who don't scour forums will have no chance and if they make it easier then. . well . . we know what happens then.
Aside from that I agree with your many well thought out points! I miss those days as well. People have tried to replicate this with hidden areas etc. but they are on youtube in a week.
VR or procedurally generated words and monsters is the only way I see this changing. At least some randomness to encounters.
We had that back then with EQmaps, EQatlas, Allakhazam's. Knowing the layout of a zone didn't matter if somebody had dragged a Griffon across the zone and it hit you on the way back to it's spawn spot or a bad pull brought one too many adds and your enchanter failed to CC properly. Or on a PvP server with the enemy team marauding around.
I see what you are saying, but I disagree, the world was still quite dangerous.
Yeah we had all those things within a year of release, and even later a really clunky in game map. There will always be those sites no matter what you do, and doesn't justify just plugging all of that directly into the game. Removes the whole purpose of player discovery. I am okay with a vague continent map, but don't think zone layout maps built into the UI are necessary.
Never got to play EQ in it's heyday (to busy playing SPRPGs at that point in time). If it really was as great as some of the posts I've read, then I definitely miss out on something.
If you like waiting in line, chatting with strangers, and yelling at people who jump the line to kill the boss, yeah, you missed a lot.
If you were like me, who think that was a waste of my time, you would be clamoring to get that time back.
Always gives me a chuckle. This guy admittedly played EQ for a year, so unless he's a genuine masochist, it clearly wasn't a waste of his time.
There isn't a word for it in the English language yet, but this member is experiencing what can only be described as the opposite of nostalgia.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I believe many here misuse the word 'nostalgia'. To look fondly back at the past and wishing to recreate certain moments/emotions does not equate to having false memories of that period. Nor does it imply that we are/were in denial of what was negative.
Looking at things through 'Rose tinted glasses' on the other hand implies one is looking at something from only a positive way and omitting the negatives.
I can be nostalgic about my time in EQ and still know that I would not enjoy it now. Still know there were many things about it that weren't perfect or 'fun' (for me).
It isn't an either/or situation where I must believe it was either great or awful.
. No game is perfect in every regard, but the old games did and still have many things about them that are appealing. If all you can do is tear a discussion down by derailing it with superfluous points that aren't even relevant to the discussion, then why reply at all other than to bait or demean points of views that don't coincide with your own.
Not to me. You think camping is superfluous? I supposed you have never played EQ at its heyday. Camping is basically what everyone does most of the time in EQ.
So you imply while you can air your preferences (i.e. loving taking a number and wait for your turn to kill the boss with 50 people helping you), I cannot air my preferences that this kind of gaming is uttering boring?
Now that is a double standard.
I personally and sincerely don't give a crap if you air your opinion it is boring, what I cannot stand is people telling me the only reason I miss this style of MMO is nostalgia. Was everything perfect in these? Of course not. I would not want a carbon copy EQ with new graphics, I want some innovation in there as well. What i don't want is for it to cater to the "gotta have it now" easy mode solo to max 3 days after release crowd
apparently you think double standard is ok.
I did not tell you what your reasons are .. but i do tell you why i think EQ has a very bad design. I notice you did not even try to defend camping.
So tell me, if camping is so big in EQ, do you like it? Or are you just saying you love EQ, but not really liking its primary gameplay ... ie.. waiting in line for the boss?
Always gives me a chuckle. This guy admittedly played EQ for a year, so unless he's a genuine masochist, it clearly wasn't a waste of his time.
There isn't a word for it in the English language yet, but this member is experiencing what can only be described as the opposite of nostalgia.
says who?
I was young then .. it was a total waste of my time. Also .. playing a year != playing for hours and hours everyday.
I had a 6 hour session only once .. and that is my last session of EQ .. because basically it dawned on me how big a waste of time it was .. not to mention boring.
But I am curious .. why people like camping? Waiting in line chatting is fun? I suppose different people have different preferences.
Comments
Personally I loved my days/months/even years in EQ and will always have fond memories of it.
However, I do believe nostalgia is a big part. We can cite the lack of Mmo's back then, that technology (i.e internet) was limited and not as widespread, or even things from the game itself.
The real fact is. Times have changed...and with it so too have the games we now play have changed. Evolved. Mutated. Whatever word you wish to put there.
Either like the direction they took or hate it, it's now part of the past and all we can do is find something we enjoy to play now. Adapt or abandon.
Maybe a game will come around which will give us a semblance of what we felt and enjoyed with EQ/UO/SWG etc. or maybe it will never happen.
All I know is I can't go back, not even to the original EQ. It had its time in the spotlight and now I look to newer and better things for myself. Nothing can last forever. In games or in life.
Just my two cents.
More and more players are choosing to abandon, unfortunately.
So the people who don't share your preferences have a mental disorder? Got it.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
You love to point out the worst or weakest bits and throw it in people's faces, despite their intent to show over-all appeal. No game is perfect in every regard, but the old games did and still have many things about them that are appealing. If all you can do is tear a discussion down by derailing it with superfluous points that aren't even relevant to the discussion, then why reply at all other than to bait or demean points of views that don't coincide with your own.
I personally had a love / hate relationship with EQ. I loved the size of the world, the complexity of the classes and their skill sets and spells. I enjoyed the slower pace of combat and the ability to think about how a battle went instead of the current 10 second paradigm. The exploration factor, the fear factor, the helpful community, the east commons tunnel.....etc.
I hated the focus on raiding, the relentless corpse runs when trying to explore, the elitist side of the community, the complete focus on camping, respawn times and drop rates...etc.
I'd love to see a revamped, updated and improved EQ that is a good mix of the old and the new. Most importantly is that it be a MMORPG and not a MOBA, MOG, AARPG, FPS....blah....blah.....blah. I'm fine with there being some that are merely arcade games with some RPG elements that appeal to gamers like you, but there is no reason why gamers like me can't get a few modern games that cater to us.
Yes, I could still be playing EQ, but after doing so on and off for the last 10 years, I'm ready for something fresh.
What he doesn't care to understand (which is why everyone blocks him) is that people who actually played EQ don't generally regard camping mobs as the worst or weakest aspect of the game. Compared to modern alternatives to camping, I'd take it in a second. The dungeons were huge and dangerous. The challenge and reward of actually getting a rare item from a rare spawn was meaningful and exciting. If some people would rather go into their lobby games and dial-a-dungeon instance with a bunch of strangers who seldom, if ever, communicate with each other because there is generally no reason to, thats their prerogative. For those of us who enjoy contested open world content and the opportunity to meet people and work together or against other players, they too should have the option.
There is no right or wrong preference involved here.
That's one of the real issues with Nari. Although I am sometimes in agreement with his point of views, it's the lack of respect for those with opposing point of views that probably make him unpopular/blocked as you'd put it. I dislike lobby games though.
Whether or not he cares to actually discuss things here or just likes to post out of boredom/baiting is totally irrelevant to me.
Nostalgia / rose colored glasses is a flat out flawed argument period and should never be used by anyone.
Rather than actually addressing what people think is bad about the game they attack the player saying they do not remember correctly without providing any examples of where that is true. That is only just the surface.... there are so many logical fallacies within the rose colored glasses/nostalgia argument that it just boggles my mind how common it is used.
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD
Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE
Waiting on: Lost Ark
Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
Gold, pure gold.
I just loathe the way the MMO tourists bunny hop from game to game, first crying that it is not the same then crying that it is boring ..... and on to the next new shiny experience for one to three months.
Trollolololololo
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/I agree. It really is a issue of player freedom.
In regards to class roles: Sure, every once in awhile you may see something like a Mage running around with a 2-handed sword, sporting a plate upper and cloth armor for the rest (this can be slightly immersion breaking for some, or just plain funny for others like myself); but there are ways of getting around this without putting a brick wall in front of a player and saying "you will fill this role, and this role alone". Giving bonuses for pairing certain skills is a example, and may dissuade such individuals from making ridiculous combinations.
Once again I concur. Risk and reward is in everything. Why water it down in a MMOG?
Never got to play EQ in it's heyday (to busy playing SPRPGs at that point in time). If it really was as great as some of the posts I've read, then I definitely miss out on something.
The code of the pessimistic loner: "We unpopular loners are realists, who follow the three non- popular principles: Not having any (Hope), Not making any (Gaps in your heart); And not giving into (Sweet talk)".
Great post OP!
I can relate to a lot of what you were saying, especially for vanilla EQ and vanilla VG. I can relate it to other games too like Morrowind vs Skyrim.
Sure Skyrim looks pretty and has a big open world but nothing will beat the harsh unforgiving world and learning curve of Morrowind, where you had to take risks and make mistakes to get anywhere. The story is much deeper and the overall experience is better, I feel the same when thinking about EQ/VG and then compare them to all the other games we get spoon fed these days.
They all have big shiny buttons, glowing titles, achievements and instant gratification rewards that keep people quickly churning through meaningless content but when you reach the end you don't feel satisfied or feel that you have learned anything or gained any meaningful experiences or memories.
With the original EQ, original VG and Morrowind I felt that and I hope to feel that again soon in Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen.
Thanks for putting the effort into writing this, it was a good read
Not to me. You think camping is superfluous? I supposed you have never played EQ at its heyday. Camping is basically what everyone does most of the time in EQ.
So you imply while you can air your preferences (i.e. loving taking a number and wait for your turn to kill the boss with 50 people helping you), I cannot air my preferences that this kind of gaming is uttering boring?
Now that is a double standard.
If you like waiting in line, chatting with strangers, and yelling at people who jump the line to kill the boss, yeah, you missed a lot.
If you were like me, who think that was a waste of my time, you would be clamoring to get that time back.
I personally and sincerely don't give a crap if you air your opinion it is boring, what I cannot stand is people telling me the only reason I miss this style of MMO is nostalgia. Was everything perfect in these? Of course not. I would not want a carbon copy EQ with new graphics, I want some innovation in there as well. What i don't want is for it to cater to the "gotta have it now" easy mode solo to max 3 days after release crowd
I've come to terms with the fact that it's hard for another game to live up to the memories a person forged in their first MMORPG. Something as simple as listening to a game's soundtrack brings those memories flooding back.
I look back to my first (FFXI), and while I had a lot of fun with it I know that I wouldn't be able to play a game at a different time in my life that requires that amount of a time commitment.
FFXIV has filled the void for me and I enjoy the game very much, but you can't get back those first time experiences because as a veteran MMORPG player there aren't going to be many firsts anymore. You just have to enjoy the game you're playing for what it is.
The "funny" thing is that such a great percentage of players of these new games rarely spend any significant amount of money (say $15/month) in them. So the masses get to play games designed for the few who spend money.
Old games were enjoyed by players where 100% of them paid to play them. (Talk about commitment!) Today, who knows if players actually enjoy them. Hell, "It's FREE!" seems to be all that matters to them.
I guess us "old timers" are the majority in spending money, but that does not seem to be enough...
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Going back to the OP:
I agree that it is not just nostalgia. . but some parts can't happen again.
Open world, real danger etc. Those things were killed by the instant look up on the internet. Once you have instant maps and info the world shrinks drastically and then travel can seem like a time sink.
Danger is mitigated by having instant information. They have two choices. . make it harder to counter that or make it easier so that people can be successful without having to look it up. If they make it harder then people who don't scour forums will have no chance and if they make it easier then. . well . . we know what happens then.
Aside from that I agree with your many well thought out points! I miss those days as well. People have tried to replicate this with hidden areas etc. but they are on youtube in a week.
VR or procedurally generated words and monsters is the only way I see this changing. At least some randomness to encounters.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
We had that back then with EQmaps, EQatlas, Allakhazam's. Knowing the layout of a zone didn't matter if somebody had dragged a Griffon across the zone and it hit you on the way back to it's spawn spot or a bad pull brought one too many adds and your enchanter failed to CC properly. Or on a PvP server with the enemy team marauding around.
I see what you are saying, but I disagree, the world was still quite dangerous.
Always gives me a chuckle. This guy admittedly played EQ for a year, so unless he's a genuine masochist, it clearly wasn't a waste of his time.
There isn't a word for it in the English language yet, but this member is experiencing what can only be described as the opposite of nostalgia.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I believe many here misuse the word 'nostalgia'. To look fondly back at the past and wishing to recreate certain moments/emotions does not equate to having false memories of that period. Nor does it imply that we are/were in denial of what was negative.
Looking at things through 'Rose tinted glasses' on the other hand implies one is looking at something from only a positive way and omitting the negatives.
I can be nostalgic about my time in EQ and still know that I would not enjoy it now. Still know there were many things about it that weren't perfect or 'fun' (for me).
It isn't an either/or situation where I must believe it was either great or awful.
apparently you think double standard is ok.
I did not tell you what your reasons are .. but i do tell you why i think EQ has a very bad design. I notice you did not even try to defend camping.
So tell me, if camping is so big in EQ, do you like it? Or are you just saying you love EQ, but not really liking its primary gameplay ... ie.. waiting in line for the boss?
says who?
I was young then .. it was a total waste of my time. Also .. playing a year != playing for hours and hours everyday.
I had a 6 hour session only once .. and that is my last session of EQ .. because basically it dawned on me how big a waste of time it was .. not to mention boring.
But I am curious .. why people like camping? Waiting in line chatting is fun? I suppose different people have different preferences.