Also by doing this they lent some credibility to his claims that the game will not be released as promised if it is released at all. If they wanted to shut him up then they should have showed footage of game development progressing. He could complain it is late but he would need to admit defeat.
If this were a boxing match, CIG just punched themselves in the face.
Lol lent credibility to Derek Smart? That is one thing Derek Smart will never have(along with a good game). If booting Derek Smart off the island somehow makes you listen to his rantings...well that's a personal problem.
Also by doing this they lent some credibility to his claims that the game will not be released as promised if it is released at all. If they wanted to shut him up then they should have showed footage of game development progressing. He could complain it is late but he would need to admit defeat.
If this were a boxing match, CIG just punched themselves in the face.
Lol lent credibility to Derek Smart? That is one thing Derek Smart will never have(along with a good game). If booting Derek Smart off the island somehow makes you listen to his rantings...well that's a personal problem.
Derek isn't the first person to voice these concerns, he's just the loudest. If you can't get over your own personal bias against Derek and instead just see the message then that a personal problem.
So can everyone who regrets investing in the project get their money back? Or do you first need to make a ruckus before they start considering that.
In the first case: /applause.
In the second case, not exactly a sign of confidence in your product.
Plenty of people DID get their money back recently. Sure, CIG reminds you of the TOS (Policy: Money back within 14 days, no questions asked - after that, we will see). But in many cases mails to CIG support that you no longer believe in the project and do not wish to continue to support it resulted in CIG returning the pledge.
But who wants the money back from CIG ? There are more profitable ways.
There IS a grey market for selling Star Citizen pledge ships with lifetime insurance (LTI). And it earns you MORE money than asking for a refund. So ... sell your pledge ship ... make a profit .... wander off to the next project that interests you. There ARE plenty of people still interested in joining the SC project with an LTI ship.
A personal remark ... for me personally it comes down to a matter of trust. Whom do i trust more ? Chris Roberts, creator of functioning, working games (milestones in computer game history) that gave me some of my most memorable moments in my personal gaming history ? Or Derek Smart, creator of some of the worst pieces of buggy untested rubbish i ever bought out of the second hand bin, self-proclaimed internet troublemaker desperately trying (by flaming CIG) to get SOME publicity for himself (and his old games and his failing steam early access MMO that is currently burning up in a downward spiral). The answer: I trust Chris Roberts more than i trust Derek Smart. I gave CIG my money and trust them to come up with a new milestone in the space sim genre - and I personally do not care how much time they need, as I rather have a well tested, well polished, content heavy game like Witcher 3 than a buggy rush job delivered on time like Batman (PC).
I don't know what Derek's motives are in making these demands, but I do know that it doesn't matter whether or not he's a backer; if customers aren't going to protect themselves, someone has to do it for them. It's the reason entities like the FTC exist, and perhaps it would have been better to wait until the ultimatum came from them. I get the sense some backers literally don't care whether or not a game will ever be released: they just enjoy giving Chris Roberts money.
It's a form of worship.
CIG should file for protection as a religious organization. As a silver lining, they could stop charging backers sales tax.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
The Chris Roberts version of the Flying Spaghetti Monster religion ?
Actually, there IS religion in Star Citizen:
"Church of the Journey
The Church of the Journey is a belief system which began as a form of meditation, but has grown into a faith that celebrates the journey rather than the origin or destination. It was founded at the end of the 29th century by Vita Perry. The group's missionaries are known as Journeymen, and travel throughout the UEE and even into Banu and Xi'an space in order to spread their faith.
The Church is still not formally recognized as a religion, as it is commonly recognized to only be a moral code with a thirst for knowledge. The financial needs of the organization are met through franchise endorsements.
The main annual festival of the Church is Travellers' Day, which is celebrated every year in February in systems throughout UEE space."
I have been following many a thread on the Internet since this shit-storm started. I knew, going in, that this is precisely what would happen once I raised these points. And because it's me raising the alarm, the attacks would be fast, and furious.
None of this bothers me. People, through the years, have shit talked me for decades. Meanwhile, I'm still here, doing what I love, making games.
And in all these shit-postings, they keep citing urban legend bullshit, passing it off as fact, and which is what prompted me to even write this blog, The Gaming Urban Legend after sitting down with legal to discuss what was about to be an industry-wide shit storm once I started writing these articles.
We knew that, right off the bat, if/when it gets to court, they were going to attack my credibility, experience, credentials (!) etc. So I put it all out there, so they don't waste their time going to court (or in depositions) and focusing on bullshit that they should already know. Also, so that they know they can't scare me into silence, by trying to use bullshit to discredit me. I am an exceptionally intelligent individual, and so I tend not to make decisions like this, without good reason. Not even in jest.
See, the thing is, attacking someone with nothing to lose, is a non-starter. And it doesn't kill the message, or the messenger.
The fact is, most of these complaints have been going on for some time now, in small forums, news posts etc. They had no effect. Well, guess what Susan, all it took was for me to write one single article, Interstellar Citizens, to get the ball rolling.
In fact, it was to be a single piece. I split it into two parts because in the interim, I reached out to my industry colleagues via Facebook, in order to see if there was a way to get CR on board with some transparency. I gave him a week. They ignored it.
That's why I wrote Interstellar Discourse, which was the original article which I had split up. Some in the media, and the industry, have had access to that second part all last week, while it was going back, and forth with legal. So they knew what was in there, and what was coming. And most in the media, told me they were doing their own investigations. Those articles are going to start hitting soon. And that's why the real fun begins.
These articles, at great risk of abuse to myself, were written because I believe it to be the right thing to do. I wrote them out of sheer love for this industry, and for the mere fact that a bunch of people in the industry Boys Club, were about to, once again, do profound stupid shit which would have long term ramifications (which I outlined in the second article) for us as gamers, and gamedevs. Many years from now, everyone will see that I was right.
And it was because of me, that all this is now being discussed. People are asking questions, asking for refunds etc
Others are just attacking me, dragging up my past (which is hilarious for so many reasons) in order to taint the message, and discredit the messenger through character assassination. It simply won't work. This is not Usenet. This is not last year. This is today, where we are way more prolific in seeking answers, and seeing beyond the bullshit.
The simple fact of the matter is that, this is now a wild fire. The chatter is going to continue, lawsuits are going to emerge, the FTC, from what I know, is going to get involved. ALL of this is going to happen, and NONE of it can be stopped.
I did that.
People keep saying that I am self-promoting. I mean, seriously, think about this. You don't ask a brain surgeon to comment on nuclear fusion. You don't rely on some anon person in a forum, if you want to get meaningful results.
Similarly, I mention MY history, and MY games, on MY blog, because I have that history of making massive, complex, multi-genre games. As such, I know all the pitfalls, the challenges etc. Line Of Defense, just so happens to be such a game, though a lot smaller in scope, and not as visually advanced. It is because this, that what I'm saying, keeps getting traction far and wide.
They know that I am the single most significant threat to this house of cards, simply because I have everything I need to challenge it all. All of it. Both from a business, and a dev perspective. Whether as an expert witness to someone else's lawsuit, testifying to the FTC etc, I have everything that's needed to be profoundly effective, and credible. And I'm going to do just that.
When my second article hit, they refunded my $250 pledge, without asking, nor without me requesting it. I never wanted, nor asked for, a refund. Various sites asked me about it, and PC Gamer decided to investigate.
I updated the Interstellar Discourse article to reflect what had happened; I also cited the sections used to justify the refund. It's at the very bottom.
They refunded my pledge through both KS and RSI.
Fact is, the KS one, is straightforward.
The RSI one, is bullshit. They had no cause to terminate my account, thereby robbing me of my tangible goods (which I could use, trade, sell). I didn't violate their TOS, and even then, I got no warning.
I have never - ever - posted on RSI forums. Like, never.
The only time I have ever been to that forum is to read the latest dev updates. My PA (Lisa) also used my account about a year ago, to report some defamatory "Derek Smart" threads, via the CS reporting tool. The threads were removed.
This is why, when asked by PCG in the above report, they had no immediate answer as to what I had violated.
Aside from that, after I got my refund, and tweeted about it, another person who had been trying for MONTHS to get a refund, decided to try as well. To his amazement, they did it - immediately.
So people thought that they were now refunding all the KS backers. That wasn't the case.
A word about this. The KS backers of the $2.1m pledge, have a stronger case than those who pledged $83 through the RSI site. Even though the TOS isn't worth the napkin they constructed it on. So this means that, having failed to deliver to KS backers, they have a much bigger problem there. But that's only $2.1m. They could very well refund all of it, if they had the money.
What they didn't plan for, was this poll. Which, initially, around 500 votes, had a whopping 31.5% of people pushing for the right to ask for a refund. Once they saw that, my guess is that they feared that if they allowed it, and opened the floodgates, they would be looking at a significant financial losses.
1. They used me as a scapegoat, saying that mine was a special case, because, you know, Derek Smart is the devil and all that. In other words, don't expect us to give you a refund just because you asked.
2. They disparaged me by making FALSE statements implying that I had somehow violated the TOS, hence my account being yanked. Here's the problem they have now. It's FALSE.
3. They took me out of the equation, thinking that by not being a backer, takes away my right to question ANYTHING about the project, or its funding. It also made sure that I couldn't be part of any lawsuit, or FTC investigation, since I was no longer a backer, and thus had no cause.
In fact, in my second article, I asked for them to hire a forensic accountant hired by backers. Had they agreed to that, as a backer with the means to do it, I'd have made one phone call to my CA attorney's office, and made it happen. Just like that.
Aside from that, this person, is Eric "Wingman" Peterson, currently working on what my industry sources tell me, is another impending crowd-funding disaster, Descent Underground. Scroll to the end to see his bio. He goes way back with CR and others from back in the day. What he posted is FALSE. I would remember it. Because I tend to post shit like that online, not in email.
So, the Boys Club I wrote about in my article, are using their forum to libel me. Yet, I get my account yanked for writing an article seeking answers. And they are rallying their fanboys to attack, and discredit me, all across the net, in order to take attention away from the real issues with the project: ACCOUNTABILITY.
And setting aside the above, the scary thing here is that they yanked my accounts, took my items, and with NO justification other than the fact that I'm making noise. They are pretty much saying that neither I, nor anyone with a known RSI account, can badmouth them or the project, without running the risk of their account, and items, being yanked. And people cheering this action against me, are OK with this.
The other problem they have is, by being unable to PROVE - beyond a reasonable doubt - that they didn't yank my account because they didn't like me making noise, writing articles etc, they have created a very big legal, and public relations problem.
Setting aside the privacy violations of not only publicly shaming a customer, but also making false statements.
And on top of all this, they have pretty much given validation to the notion that, aside from all the hyperbole that some would say are evident in my articles, there is something that worries them in what I am writing in my articles. Why else would they attempt to kick me out, or to silence me? What did I do ON RSI SYSTEMS that would warrant such an action?
Here's the thing. It changes nothing. Them yanking my account, and items, doesn't change the fact that I owned them, they took them illegally, libeled me etc amid my articles, and the flurry of press and discussions surrounding them. All they've done, is given me ammo, and cause to do something that I simply didn't want to do. That being either sue them, or join the lawsuit currently being worked on by the group in CA that I mentioned in my article.
They talk about transparency, yet, they haven't addressed a SINGLE one of the 7 issues I raised in the article. The fact that people don't think that CR allegedly flying around in private jets, or hiring his brother and wife to high profile positions, accounting for the money, etc let alone the issues with the project, is telling.
I have two more articles in the works. The 4th and final, is going to be a lot worse than the the 2nd. The 3rd one is almost a recap this post, but with more information.
That is all.
ps: I will not be responding to anything. You have my email. If you want to reach out, you know where to find me.
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living. If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead ...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.
It would be really easy to stop all these rumours and accusations by showing the community a game. But aparently there is no game to show.
Fact is that after 2.5 years, a terrible release management, a horrible dogfight module and no substantial game in sight the company that has $85 million in funds, 3 worldwide office with 300 employees incl. contractors, a CEO that travels lavishly and employs family members needs to step up and present some form of a game if they want to maintain credibility.
I don't care how famous Roberts is or if the woman with no qualification Roberts hired as Head of Marketing is his wife or just playing with his joystick. I don't care if Derek Smart eats babies and prays to Satan.
Fact is that Star Citizen is as of today nothing but a concept. There is nothing substantial part from the ships they sold to people and of those not even halve are done and functional.
---
From an engine developer perspective i really want to see them pull off the multiple variable gravity zones in CryEngine. That would be an achievement of epic proportions.
Explanation: Gravity in game engines usually is a vector pointing in one fixed direction to save on the extreme physics calculations. If you are walking in a ship that is flown by your friend the gravity is not a vector pointing in one direction anymore. It needs to be updated in real-time however the ship rotates. The engine needs to do that for every ship individually 60 times a second for 60FPS. It's a task i would not want to have on my list.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
Originally posted by SavageHorizon This has the potential to kill the whole gaming kickstarter phenomenon. Think I'm going to need a truck load of popcorn for this.
I have been following many a thread on the Internet since this shit-storm started. I knew, going in, that this is precisely what would happen once I raised these points. And because it's me raising the alarm, the attacks would be fast, and furious.
None of this bothers me. People, through the years, have shit talked me for decades. Meanwhile, I'm still here, doing what I love, making games.
And in all these shit-postings, they keep citing urban legend bullshit, passing it off as fact, and which is what prompted me to even write this blog, The Gaming Urban Legend after sitting down with legal to discuss what was about to be an industry-wide shit storm once I started writing these articles.
We knew that, right off the bat, if/when it gets to court, they were going to attack my credibility, experience, credentials (!) etc. So I put it all out there, so they don't waste their time going to court (or in depositions) and focusing on bullshit that they should already know. Also, so that they know they can't scare me into silence, by trying to use bullshit to discredit me. I am an exceptionally intelligent individual, and so I tend not to make decisions like this, without good reason. Not even in jest.
See, the thing is, attacking someone with nothing to lose, is a non-starter. And it doesn't kill the message, or the messenger.
The fact is, most of these complaints have been going on for some time now, in small forums, news posts etc. They had no effect. Well, guess what Susan, all it took was for me to write one single article, Interstellar Citizens, to get the ball rolling.
In fact, it was to be a single piece. I split it into two parts because in the interim, I reached out to my industry colleagues via Facebook, in order to see if there was a way to get CR on board with some transparency. I gave him a week. They ignored it.
That's why I wrote Interstellar Discourse, which was the original article which I had split up. Some in the media, and the industry, have had access to that second part all last week, while it was going back, and forth with legal. So they knew what was in there, and what was coming. And most in the media, told me they were doing their own investigations. Those articles are going to start hitting soon. And that's why the real fun begins.
These articles, at great risk of abuse to myself, were written because I believe it to be the right thing to do. I wrote them out of sheer love for this industry, and for the mere fact that a bunch of people in the industry Boys Club, were about to, once again, do profound stupid shit which would have long term ramifications (which I outlined in the second article) for us as gamers, and gamedevs. Many years from now, everyone will see that I was right.
And it was because of me, that all this is now being discussed. People are asking questions, asking for refunds etc
Others are just attacking me, dragging up my past (which is hilarious for so many reasons) in order to taint the message, and discredit the messenger through character assassination. It simply won't work. This is not Usenet. This is not last year. This is today, where we are way more prolific in seeking answers, and seeing beyond the bullshit.
The simple fact of the matter is that, this is now a wild fire. The chatter is going to continue, lawsuits are going to emerge, the FTC, from what I know, is going to get involved. ALL of this is going to happen, and NONE of it can be stopped.
I did that.
People keep saying that I am self-promoting. I mean, seriously, think about this. You don't ask a brain surgeon to comment on nuclear fusion. You don't rely on some anon person in a forum, if you want to get meaningful results.
Similarly, I mention MY history, and MY games, on MY blog, because I have that history of making massive, complex, multi-genre games. As such, I know all the pitfalls, the challenges etc. Line Of Defense, just so happens to be such a game, though a lot smaller in scope, and not as visually advanced. It is because this, that what I'm saying, keeps getting traction far and wide.
They know that I am the single most significant threat to this house of cards, simply because I have everything I need to challenge it all. All of it. Both from a business, and a dev perspective. Whether as an expert witness to someone else's lawsuit, testifying to the FTC etc, I have everything that's needed to be profoundly effective, and credible. And I'm going to do just that.
When my second article hit, they refunded my $250 pledge, without asking, nor without me requesting it. I never wanted, nor asked for, a refund. Various sites asked me about it, and PC Gamer decided to investigate.
I updated the Interstellar Discourse article to reflect what had happened; I also cited the sections used to justify the refund. It's at the very bottom.
They refunded my pledge through both KS and RSI.
Fact is, the KS one, is straightforward.
The RSI one, is bullshit. They had no cause to terminate my account, thereby robbing me of my tangible goods (which I could use, trade, sell). I didn't violate their TOS, and even then, I got no warning.
I have never - ever - posted on RSI forums. Like, never.
The only time I have ever been to that forum is to read the latest dev updates. My PA (Lisa) also used my account about a year ago, to report some defamatory "Derek Smart" threads, via the CS reporting tool. The threads were removed.
This is why, when asked by PCG in the above report, they had no immediate answer as to what I had violated.
Aside from that, after I got my refund, and tweeted about it, another person who had been trying for MONTHS to get a refund, decided to try as well. To his amazement, they did it - immediately.
So people thought that they were now refunding all the KS backers. That wasn't the case.
A word about this. The KS backers of the $2.1m pledge, have a stronger case than those who pledged $83 through the RSI site. Even though the TOS isn't worth the napkin they constructed it on. So this means that, having failed to deliver to KS backers, they have a much bigger problem there. But that's only $2.1m. They could very well refund all of it, if they had the money.
What they didn't plan for, was this poll. Which, initially, around 500 votes, had a whopping 31.5% of people pushing for the right to ask for a refund. Once they saw that, my guess is that they feared that if they allowed it, and opened the floodgates, they would be looking at a significant financial losses.
1. They used me as a scapegoat, saying that mine was a special case, because, you know, Derek Smart is the devil and all that. In other words, don't expect us to give you a refund just because you asked.
2. They disparaged me by making FALSE statements implying that I had somehow violated the TOS, hence my account being yanked. Here's the problem they have now. It's FALSE.
3. They took me out of the equation, thinking that by not being a backer, takes away my right to question ANYTHING about the project, or its funding. It also made sure that I couldn't be part of any lawsuit, or FTC investigation, since I was no longer a backer, and thus had no cause.
In fact, in my second article, I asked for them to hire a forensic accountant hired by backers. Had they agreed to that, as a backer with the means to do it, I'd have made one phone call to my CA attorney's office, and made it happen. Just like that.
Aside from that, this person, is Eric "Wingman" Peterson, currently working on what my industry sources tell me, is another impending crowd-funding disaster, Descent Underground. Scroll to the end to see his bio. He goes way back with CR and others from back in the day. What he posted is FALSE. I would remember it. Because I tend to post shit like that online, not in email.
So, the Boys Club I wrote about in my article, are using their forum to libel me. Yet, I get my account yanked for writing an article seeking answers. And they are rallying their fanboys to attack, and discredit me, all across the net, in order to take attention away from the real issues with the project: ACCOUNTABILITY.
And setting aside the above, the scary thing here is that they yanked my accounts, took my items, and with NO justification other than the fact that I'm making noise. They are pretty much saying that neither I, nor anyone with a known RSI account, can badmouth them or the project, without running the risk of their account, and items, being yanked. And people cheering this action against me, are OK with this.
The other problem they have is, by being unable to PROVE - beyond a reasonable doubt - that they didn't yank my account because they didn't like me making noise, writing articles etc, they have created a very big legal, and public relations problem.
Setting aside the privacy violations of not only publicly shaming a customer, but also making false statements.
And on top of all this, they have pretty much given validation to the notion that, aside from all the hyperbole that some would say are evident in my articles, there is something that worries them in what I am writing in my articles. Why else would they attempt to kick me out, or to silence me? What did I do ON RSI SYSTEMS that would warrant such an action?
Here's the thing. It changes nothing. Them yanking my account, and items, doesn't change the fact that I owned them, they took them illegally, libeled me etc amid my articles, and the flurry of press and discussions surrounding them. All they've done, is given me ammo, and cause to do something that I simply didn't want to do. That being either sue them, or join the lawsuit currently being worked on by the group in CA that I mentioned in my article.
They talk about transparency, yet, they haven't addressed a SINGLE one of the 7 issues I raised in the article. The fact that people don't think that CR allegedly flying around in private jets, or hiring his brother and wife to high profile positions, accounting for the money, etc let alone the issues with the project, is telling.
I have two more articles in the works. The 4th and final, is going to be a lot worse than the the 2nd. The 3rd one is almost a recap this post, but with more information.
That is all.
ps: I will not be responding to anything. You have my email. If you want to reach out, you know where to find me.
If I was your lawyer... I'd be telling you that you talk way too much.
I have been following many a thread on the Internet since this shit-storm started. I knew, going in, that this is precisely what would happen once I raised these points. And because it's me raising the alarm, the attacks would be fast, and furious.
No one is attacking you personally, the fact that you knew this would be the case says it all really. It shows you know the reputation you've made for yourself. You essentially did the same thing to David Braben or anyone else who has made a successful Space-sim like Homeworld. You can't help but drag them through the mud...We're supposed to forget all of that though right?
SO again these aren't personal attacks, it's simply taking into account what your track record is. Maybe you should have thought about that before doing as you did in the past?
I don't take anything away from backers who would like more transparency, that's completely understandable. Hell I'll even say good on you if you help in that, that still doesn't mean your intentions are/were in the right place. There are just too many instances of you tearing down other products to promote your own.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
BRAVO! and Kudos to you DSmart. I, for or one (and we all know I am not alone), admire you for your courage and tenacity in this matter. The MMO industry is bigger than CIG and deserves to be protected from its shady practices that have the potential to damage it beyond repair. I stand by you and support you in your efforts. It is painfully obvious that CIG has been extending the development of this game because it has been a gold mine for them with no accountability. You can just sense them scheming to keep it going while they ROFLMOA all the way to the bank. Keep fighting the good fight DSmart. I am certain you will be vindicated in the end.
" I'm kind of confused by your link... did you get refunded out of the blue without you requesting it? or did you request a refund? "
It is as yet unanswered, hopefully he clarifies.
CIG admitted it in the link provided. It is implied. Please read carefully. Also, if you read DSmarts statements in the same link, he speaks of having involuntarily received a refund.
I'm sorry but it means diddly concerning whether a refund was asked for by Mr Smart or not.
One can only imagine the amount of correspondence between these parties and the amount of times the word refund was used in such correspondence.
It's also interesting how Ben Lesnick names jcrg99 with Mr Smart on the RSI forums. It's also coincidence that the forums here also have a poster by the same name.
The MMO industry is bigger than CIG and deserves to be protected from its shady practices that have the potential to damage it beyond repair. I stand by you and support you in your efforts. It is painfully obvious that CIG has been extending the development of this game because it has been a gold mine for them with no accountability. You can just sense them scheming to keep it going while they ROFLMOA all the way to the bank. Keep fighting the good fight DSmart. I am certain you will be vindicated in the end.
Nothing here can damage the greater MMORPG industry beyond repair, Crowdfunding isn't even the typical avenue for it, as a proper MMORPG takes a lot more money than the typical amounts one can gain from a kickstarter.
SC is an anomaly, few are going to be able to repeat what they have done in terms of CF. Especially after the realization has set in that there's a lot more to it than just getting the money. They still have to build the game, we see in these very topics what that means.
You folks are giving this game far too much ownership of the genre, Space sims MMO or otherwise are still a niche endeavor. They will always be such. SC just shows how long it's been since a truly innovative one has been made (in working condition).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I have been following many a thread on the Internet since this shit-storm started. I knew, going in, that this is precisely what would happen once I raised these points. And because it's me raising the alarm, the attacks would be fast, and furious.
No one is attacking you personally, the fact that you knew this would be the case says it all really. It shows you know the reputation you've made for yourself. You essentially did the same thing to David Braben or anyone else who has made a successful Space-sim like Homeworld. You can't help but drag them through the mud...We're supposed to forget all of that though right?
SO again these aren't personal attacks, it's simply taking into account what your track record is. Maybe you should have thought about that before doing as you did in the past?
I don't take anything away from backers who would like more transparency, that's completely understandable. Hell I'll even say good on you if you help in that, that still doesn't mean your intentions are/were in the right place. There are just too many instances of you tearing down other products to promote your own.
All you have done are personal attacks, you have yet to address what he said. Its almost like you are unable to address the points he makes, I wonder why that is...
I have been following many a thread on the Internet since this shit-storm started. I knew, going in, that this is precisely what would happen once I raised these points. And because it's me raising the alarm, the attacks would be fast, and furious.
No one is attacking you personally, the fact that you knew this would be the case says it all really. It shows you know the reputation you've made for yourself. You essentially did the same thing to David Braben or anyone else who has made a successful Space-sim like Homeworld. You can't help but drag them through the mud...We're supposed to forget all of that though right?
SO again these aren't personal attacks, it's simply taking into account what your track record is. Maybe you should have thought about that before doing as you did in the past?
I don't take anything away from backers who would like more transparency, that's completely understandable. Hell I'll even say good on you if you help in that, that still doesn't mean your intentions are/were in the right place. There are just too many instances of you tearing down other products to promote your own.
All you have done are personal attacks, you have yet to address what he said. Its almost like you are unable to address the points he makes, I wonder why that is...
A personal attack would be more than bringing up his tendencies. I don't address the points he made because, they may be accurate, these same points have been raised by many others over the course of this games development or lack there of... I don't have a problem with that aspect of this, I just question his motives, which i do not feel based on his past are for the greater good. Anyone with a name can get people behind them by simply repeating their concerns, good intention or not.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What if... They dont really have 85 Million. What if... They just kept reinvesting backer money to increase the counter for marketing purposes. What if.. They really only have a fraction of that amount.
I have been following many a thread on the Internet since this shit-storm started. I knew, going in, that this is precisely what would happen once I raised these points. And because it's me raising the alarm, the attacks would be fast, and furious.
No one is attacking you personally, the fact that you knew this would be the case says it all really. It shows you know the reputation you've made for yourself. You essentially did the same thing to David Braben or anyone else who has made a successful Space-sim like Homeworld. You can't help but drag them through the mud...We're supposed to forget all of that though right?
SO again these aren't personal attacks, it's simply taking into account what your track record is. Maybe you should have thought about that before doing as you did in the past?
I don't take anything away from backers who would like more transparency, that's completely understandable. Hell I'll even say good on you if you help in that, that still doesn't mean your intentions are/were in the right place. There are just too many instances of you tearing down other products to promote your own.
People are personally attacking him though. You can bring up his colourful post and blog history but when you start adding in how he has just made crap games or has no talent, etc then that is a personal attack.
you in this case doesn't mean you personally but just a broad term.
The MMO industry is bigger than CIG and deserves to be protected from its shady practices that have the potential to damage it beyond repair. I stand by you and support you in your efforts. It is painfully obvious that CIG has been extending the development of this game because it has been a gold mine for them with no accountability. You can just sense them scheming to keep it going while they ROFLMOA all the way to the bank. Keep fighting the good fight DSmart. I am certain you will be vindicated in the end.
Nothing here can damage the greater MMORPG industry beyond repair, Crowdfunding isn't even the typical avenue for it, as a proper MMORPG takes a lot more money than the typical amounts one can gain from a kickstarter.
SC is an anomaly, few are going to be able to repeat what they have done in terms of CF. Especially after the realization has set in that there's a lot more to it than just getting the money. They still have to build the game, we see in these very topics what that means.
You folks are giving this game far too much ownership of the genre, Space sims MMO or otherwise are still a niche endeavor. They will always be such. SC just shows how long it's been since a truly innovative one has been made (in working condition).
None of that has any significance to the bigger issue at hand. All it does is serve to muddy the waters. Again, this is a matter of transparency and accountability for the as yet unaccounted for $85+ MILLION dollars. And its a matter that needs to be attended to sooner than later, period. You may not have any interest in protecting the industry or many of the naive backers of this so-called project, but myself and many other conscientious people do. All I can say is thank goodness for the DSmarts of the world.
I have been following many a thread on the Internet since this shit-storm started. I knew, going in, that this is precisely what would happen once I raised these points. And because it's me raising the alarm, the attacks would be fast, and furious.
No one is attacking you personally, the fact that you knew this would be the case says it all really. It shows you know the reputation you've made for yourself. You essentially did the same thing to David Braben or anyone else who has made a successful Space-sim like Homeworld. You can't help but drag them through the mud...We're supposed to forget all of that though right?
SO again these aren't personal attacks, it's simply taking into account what your track record is. Maybe you should have thought about that before doing as you did in the past?
I don't take anything away from backers who would like more transparency, that's completely understandable. Hell I'll even say good on you if you help in that, that still doesn't mean your intentions are/were in the right place. There are just too many instances of you tearing down other products to promote your own.
People are personally attacking him though. You can bring up his colourful post and blog history but when you start adding in how he has just made crap games or has no talent, etc then that is a personal attack.
you in this case doesn't mean you personally but just a broad term.
Wouldn't that be part of his track record? Or pointing out the hypocrisy in some of his statements? His talent comes into question when he starts saying things like "This game is impossible to make"... He bases that on his own experience with the genre, so it becomes a question of whether it really is impossible, or was it simply not possible for him? That's more about his track record, because he's been trying to make games like SC for a long time now.
When you open your mouth about your experience during a tirade against another studios game, yes your games as well as talent are being put willingly into the discussion.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The MMO industry is bigger than CIG and deserves to be protected from its shady practices that have the potential to damage it beyond repair. I stand by you and support you in your efforts. It is painfully obvious that CIG has been extending the development of this game because it has been a gold mine for them with no accountability. You can just sense them scheming to keep it going while they ROFLMOA all the way to the bank. Keep fighting the good fight DSmart. I am certain you will be vindicated in the end.
Nothing here can damage the greater MMORPG industry beyond repair, Crowdfunding isn't even the typical avenue for it, as a proper MMORPG takes a lot more money than the typical amounts one can gain from a kickstarter.
SC is an anomaly, few are going to be able to repeat what they have done in terms of CF. Especially after the realization has set in that there's a lot more to it than just getting the money. They still have to build the game, we see in these very topics what that means.
You folks are giving this game far too much ownership of the genre, Space sims MMO or otherwise are still a niche endeavor. They will always be such. SC just shows how long it's been since a truly innovative one has been made (in working condition).
None of that has any significance to the bigger issue at hand. All it does is serve to muddy the waters. Again, this is a matter of transparency and accountability for the as yet unaccounted for $85+ MILLION dollars. And its a matter that needs to be attended to sooner than later, period. You may not have any interest in protecting the industry or many of the naive backers of this so-called project, but myself and many other conscientious people do. All I can say is thank goodness for the DSmarts of the world.
You're the one who brought it up.... stop muddying the waters.
BTW this thread is about CIG giving Derek his money back, and cutting business/Consumer ties with him.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What if... They dont really have 85 Million. What if... They just kept reinvesting backer money to increase the counter for marketing purposes. What if.. They really only have a fraction of that amount.
What if...
I know it's hard to believe that they really made $85 million. I seriously doubt it because even though Gamers are a very special kind of stupid i refuse to believe they gave that much money for jpg's of spaceships. Given the fact that not even half of these ships are available in the Hangar yet.
I like your Theory though. They really only have maybe $15 million and keep hyping to get more people to buy their ships. That would be awesome.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling." - Michael Bitton Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about." - SEANMCAD
The MMO industry is bigger than CIG and deserves to be protected from its shady practices that have the potential to damage it beyond repair. I stand by you and support you in your efforts. It is painfully obvious that CIG has been extending the development of this game because it has been a gold mine for them with no accountability. You can just sense them scheming to keep it going while they ROFLMOA all the way to the bank. Keep fighting the good fight DSmart. I am certain you will be vindicated in the end.
Nothing here can damage the greater MMORPG industry beyond repair, Crowdfunding isn't even the typical avenue for it, as a proper MMORPG takes a lot more money than the typical amounts one can gain from a kickstarter.
SC is an anomaly, few are going to be able to repeat what they have done in terms of CF. Especially after the realization has set in that there's a lot more to it than just getting the money. They still have to build the game, we see in these very topics what that means.
You folks are giving this game far too much ownership of the genre, Space sims MMO or otherwise are still a niche endeavor. They will always be such. SC just shows how long it's been since a truly innovative one has been made (in working condition).
None of that has any significance to the bigger issue at hand. All it does is serve to muddy the waters. Again, this is a matter of transparency and accountability for the as yet unaccounted for $85+ MILLION dollars. And its a matter that needs to be attended to sooner than later, period. You may not have any interest in protecting the industry or many of the naive backers of this so-called project, but myself and many other conscientious people do. All I can say is thank goodness for the DSmarts of the world.
You're the one who brought it up.... stop muddying the waters.
Your posts do nothing but distract and deflect from the matter at hand. For the hundredth time, this is not about DSmart. It's about the underlying concerns in his message. Concerns that many others share. If it makes you feel better you can replace his name with John Doe. Although I am thankful that he has the notoriety to bring mass attention to this matter, It could just as well been authored by Charlie Brown or Mickey Mouse. He delineated eight very clear and pointed demands that will bring more transparency and accountability to this matter. There is no muddying in my message. I have been very consistent with my concerns.
Your posts do nothing but distract and deflect from the matter at hand. For the hundredth time, this is not about DSmart.
I see you missed my edit, would have saved you a bunch of words...This thread is about peoples opinions on CIG cutting ties with him, That's all I've offered my take on... IE why that's probably good for CIG, which is due to how he has acted in the past. There are plenty of threads about backer concerns. I tend to stay away from those for the most part, I'm no backer, nor do I have much of an opinion on SC at the given time, (the screenshots looked cool when I first saw them in GI years ago..)
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
So can everyone who regrets investing in the project get their money back? Or do you first need to make a ruckus before they start considering that.
In the first case: /applause.
In the second case, not exactly a sign of confidence in your product.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Lol lent credibility to Derek Smart? That is one thing Derek Smart will never have(along with a good game). If booting Derek Smart off the island somehow makes you listen to his rantings...well that's a personal problem.
Derek isn't the first person to voice these concerns, he's just the loudest. If you can't get over your own personal bias against Derek and instead just see the message then that a personal problem.
Plenty of people DID get their money back recently. Sure, CIG reminds you of the TOS (Policy: Money back within 14 days, no questions asked - after that, we will see). But in many cases mails to CIG support that you no longer believe in the project and do not wish to continue to support it resulted in CIG returning the pledge.
But who wants the money back from CIG ? There are more profitable ways.
There IS a grey market for selling Star Citizen pledge ships with lifetime insurance (LTI). And it earns you MORE money than asking for a refund. So ... sell your pledge ship ... make a profit .... wander off to the next project that interests you. There ARE plenty of people still interested in joining the SC project with an LTI ship.
A personal remark ... for me personally it comes down to a matter of trust. Whom do i trust more ? Chris Roberts, creator of functioning, working games (milestones in computer game history) that gave me some of my most memorable moments in my personal gaming history ? Or Derek Smart, creator of some of the worst pieces of buggy untested rubbish i ever bought out of the second hand bin, self-proclaimed internet troublemaker desperately trying (by flaming CIG) to get SOME publicity for himself (and his old games and his failing steam early access MMO that is currently burning up in a downward spiral). The answer: I trust Chris Roberts more than i trust Derek Smart. I gave CIG my money and trust them to come up with a new milestone in the space sim genre - and I personally do not care how much time they need, as I rather have a well tested, well polished, content heavy game like Witcher 3 than a buggy rush job delivered on time like Batman (PC).
Have fun
I don't know what Derek's motives are in making these demands, but I do know that it doesn't matter whether or not he's a backer; if customers aren't going to protect themselves, someone has to do it for them. It's the reason entities like the FTC exist, and perhaps it would have been better to wait until the ultimatum came from them. I get the sense some backers literally don't care whether or not a game will ever be released: they just enjoy giving Chris Roberts money.
It's a form of worship.
CIG should file for protection as a religious organization. As a silver lining, they could stop charging backers sales tax.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
The Chris Roberts version of the Flying Spaghetti Monster religion ?
Actually, there IS religion in Star Citizen:
"Church of the Journey
The Church of the Journey is a belief system which began as a form of meditation, but has grown into a faith that celebrates the journey rather than the origin or destination. It was founded at the end of the 29th century by Vita Perry. The group's missionaries are known as Journeymen, and travel throughout the UEE and even into Banu and Xi'an space in order to spread their faith.
The Church is still not formally recognized as a religion, as it is commonly recognized to only be a moral code with a thirst for knowledge. The financial needs of the organization are met through franchise endorsements.
The main annual festival of the Church is Travellers' Day, which is celebrated every year in February in systems throughout UEE space."Have fun
I have been following many a thread on the Internet since this shit-storm started. I knew, going in, that this is precisely what would happen once I raised these points. And because it's me raising the alarm, the attacks would be fast, and furious.
None of this bothers me. People, through the years, have shit talked me for decades. Meanwhile, I'm still here, doing what I love, making games.
And in all these shit-postings, they keep citing urban legend bullshit, passing it off as fact, and which is what prompted me to even write this blog, The Gaming Urban Legend after sitting down with legal to discuss what was about to be an industry-wide shit storm once I started writing these articles.
We knew that, right off the bat, if/when it gets to court, they were going to attack my credibility, experience, credentials (!) etc. So I put it all out there, so they don't waste their time going to court (or in depositions) and focusing on bullshit that they should already know. Also, so that they know they can't scare me into silence, by trying to use bullshit to discredit me. I am an exceptionally intelligent individual, and so I tend not to make decisions like this, without good reason. Not even in jest.
See, the thing is, attacking someone with nothing to lose, is a non-starter. And it doesn't kill the message, or the messenger.
The fact is, most of these complaints have been going on for some time now, in small forums, news posts etc. They had no effect. Well, guess what Susan, all it took was for me to write one single article, Interstellar Citizens, to get the ball rolling.
In fact, it was to be a single piece. I split it into two parts because in the interim, I reached out to my industry colleagues via Facebook, in order to see if there was a way to get CR on board with some transparency. I gave him a week. They ignored it.
That's why I wrote Interstellar Discourse, which was the original article which I had split up. Some in the media, and the industry, have had access to that second part all last week, while it was going back, and forth with legal. So they knew what was in there, and what was coming. And most in the media, told me they were doing their own investigations. Those articles are going to start hitting soon. And that's why the real fun begins.
These articles, at great risk of abuse to myself, were written because I believe it to be the right thing to do. I wrote them out of sheer love for this industry, and for the mere fact that a bunch of people in the industry Boys Club, were about to, once again, do profound stupid shit which would have long term ramifications (which I outlined in the second article) for us as gamers, and gamedevs. Many years from now, everyone will see that I was right.
And it was because of me, that all this is now being discussed. People are asking questions, asking for refunds etc
Others are just attacking me, dragging up my past (which is hilarious for so many reasons) in order to taint the message, and discredit the messenger through character assassination. It simply won't work. This is not Usenet. This is not last year. This is today, where we are way more prolific in seeking answers, and seeing beyond the bullshit.
The simple fact of the matter is that, this is now a wild fire. The chatter is going to continue, lawsuits are going to emerge, the FTC, from what I know, is going to get involved. ALL of this is going to happen, and NONE of it can be stopped.
I did that.
People keep saying that I am self-promoting. I mean, seriously, think about this. You don't ask a brain surgeon to comment on nuclear fusion. You don't rely on some anon person in a forum, if you want to get meaningful results.
Similarly, I mention MY history, and MY games, on MY blog, because I have that history of making massive, complex, multi-genre games. As such, I know all the pitfalls, the challenges etc. Line Of Defense, just so happens to be such a game, though a lot smaller in scope, and not as visually advanced. It is because this, that what I'm saying, keeps getting traction far and wide.
They know that I am the single most significant threat to this house of cards, simply because I have everything I need to challenge it all. All of it. Both from a business, and a dev perspective. Whether as an expert witness to someone else's lawsuit, testifying to the FTC etc, I have everything that's needed to be profoundly effective, and credible. And I'm going to do just that.
When my second article hit, they refunded my $250 pledge, without asking, nor without me requesting it. I never wanted, nor asked for, a refund. Various sites asked me about it, and PC Gamer decided to investigate.
I updated the Interstellar Discourse article to reflect what had happened; I also cited the sections used to justify the refund. It's at the very bottom.
They refunded my pledge through both KS and RSI.
Fact is, the KS one, is straightforward.
The RSI one, is bullshit. They had no cause to terminate my account, thereby robbing me of my tangible goods (which I could use, trade, sell). I didn't violate their TOS, and even then, I got no warning.
I have never - ever - posted on RSI forums. Like, never.
The only time I have ever been to that forum is to read the latest dev updates. My PA (Lisa) also used my account about a year ago, to report some defamatory "Derek Smart" threads, via the CS reporting tool. The threads were removed.
This is why, when asked by PCG in the above report, they had no immediate answer as to what I had violated.
Aside from that, after I got my refund, and tweeted about it, another person who had been trying for MONTHS to get a refund, decided to try as well. To his amazement, they did it - immediately.
So people thought that they were now refunding all the KS backers. That wasn't the case.
A word about this. The KS backers of the $2.1m pledge, have a stronger case than those who pledged $83 through the RSI site. Even though the TOS isn't worth the napkin they constructed it on. So this means that, having failed to deliver to KS backers, they have a much bigger problem there. But that's only $2.1m. They could very well refund all of it, if they had the money.
What they didn't plan for, was this poll. Which, initially, around 500 votes, had a whopping 31.5% of people pushing for the right to ask for a refund. Once they saw that, my guess is that they feared that if they allowed it, and opened the floodgates, they would be looking at a significant financial losses.
So, they did two things when they released this libelous statement.
1. They used me as a scapegoat, saying that mine was a special case, because, you know, Derek Smart is the devil and all that. In other words, don't expect us to give you a refund just because you asked.
2. They disparaged me by making FALSE statements implying that I had somehow violated the TOS, hence my account being yanked. Here's the problem they have now. It's FALSE.
3. They took me out of the equation, thinking that by not being a backer, takes away my right to question ANYTHING about the project, or its funding. It also made sure that I couldn't be part of any lawsuit, or FTC investigation, since I was no longer a backer, and thus had no cause.
In fact, in my second article, I asked for them to hire a forensic accountant hired by backers. Had they agreed to that, as a backer with the means to do it, I'd have made one phone call to my CA attorney's office, and made it happen. Just like that.
Aside from that, this person, is Eric "Wingman" Peterson, currently working on what my industry sources tell me, is another impending crowd-funding disaster, Descent Underground. Scroll to the end to see his bio. He goes way back with CR and others from back in the day. What he posted is FALSE. I would remember it. Because I tend to post shit like that online, not in email.
So, the Boys Club I wrote about in my article, are using their forum to libel me. Yet, I get my account yanked for writing an article seeking answers. And they are rallying their fanboys to attack, and discredit me, all across the net, in order to take attention away from the real issues with the project: ACCOUNTABILITY.
And setting aside the above, the scary thing here is that they yanked my accounts, took my items, and with NO justification other than the fact that I'm making noise. They are pretty much saying that neither I, nor anyone with a known RSI account, can badmouth them or the project, without running the risk of their account, and items, being yanked. And people cheering this action against me, are OK with this.
The other problem they have is, by being unable to PROVE - beyond a reasonable doubt - that they didn't yank my account because they didn't like me making noise, writing articles etc, they have created a very big legal, and public relations problem.
Setting aside the privacy violations of not only publicly shaming a customer, but also making false statements.
And on top of all this, they have pretty much given validation to the notion that, aside from all the hyperbole that some would say are evident in my articles, there is something that worries them in what I am writing in my articles. Why else would they attempt to kick me out, or to silence me? What did I do ON RSI SYSTEMS that would warrant such an action?
Here's the thing. It changes nothing. Them yanking my account, and items, doesn't change the fact that I owned them, they took them illegally, libeled me etc amid my articles, and the flurry of press and discussions surrounding them. All they've done, is given me ammo, and cause to do something that I simply didn't want to do. That being either sue them, or join the lawsuit currently being worked on by the group in CA that I mentioned in my article.
They talk about transparency, yet, they haven't addressed a SINGLE one of the 7 issues I raised in the article. The fact that people don't think that CR allegedly flying around in private jets, or hiring his brother and wife to high profile positions, accounting for the money, etc let alone the issues with the project, is telling.
I have two more articles in the works. The 4th and final, is going to be a lot worse than the the 2nd. The 3rd one is almost a recap this post, but with more information.
That is all.
ps: I will not be responding to anything. You have my email. If you want to reach out, you know where to find me.
Game developers are just human beings who happen to make games for a living.
If you want to hold us up to higher standards of conduct, then go ahead
...but don't be surprised if we don't uphold them.
It would be really easy to stop all these rumours and accusations by showing the community a game. But aparently there is no game to show.
Fact is that after 2.5 years, a terrible release management, a horrible dogfight module and no substantial game in sight the company that has $85 million in funds, 3 worldwide office with 300 employees incl. contractors, a CEO that travels lavishly and employs family members needs to step up and present some form of a game if they want to maintain credibility.
I don't care how famous Roberts is or if the woman with no qualification Roberts hired as Head of Marketing is his wife or just playing with his joystick. I don't care if Derek Smart eats babies and prays to Satan.
Fact is that Star Citizen is as of today nothing but a concept. There is nothing substantial part from the ships they sold to people and of those not even halve are done and functional.
---
From an engine developer perspective i really want to see them pull off the multiple variable gravity zones in CryEngine. That would be an achievement of epic proportions.
Explanation: Gravity in game engines usually is a vector pointing in one fixed direction to save on the extreme physics calculations. If you are walking in a ship that is flown by your friend the gravity is not a vector pointing in one direction anymore. It needs to be updated in real-time however the ship rotates. The engine needs to do that for every ship individually 60 times a second for 60FPS. It's a task i would not want to have on my list.
It's pretty much impossible to pull off.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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You give too much credit
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
If I was your lawyer... I'd be telling you that you talk way too much.
Pot meet Kettle
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
No one is attacking you personally, the fact that you knew this would be the case says it all really. It shows you know the reputation you've made for yourself. You essentially did the same thing to David Braben or anyone else who has made a successful Space-sim like Homeworld. You can't help but drag them through the mud...We're supposed to forget all of that though right?
SO again these aren't personal attacks, it's simply taking into account what your track record is. Maybe you should have thought about that before doing as you did in the past?
I don't take anything away from backers who would like more transparency, that's completely understandable. Hell I'll even say good on you if you help in that, that still doesn't mean your intentions are/were in the right place. There are just too many instances of you tearing down other products to promote your own.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
BRAVO! and Kudos to you DSmart. I, for or one (and we all know I am not alone), admire you for your courage and tenacity in this matter. The MMO industry is bigger than CIG and deserves to be protected from its shady practices that have the potential to damage it beyond repair. I stand by you and support you in your efforts. It is painfully obvious that CIG has been extending the development of this game because it has been a gold mine for them with no accountability. You can just sense them scheming to keep it going while they ROFLMOA all the way to the bank. Keep fighting the good fight DSmart. I am certain you will be vindicated in the end.
Yeah I think that user is Derek.
Nothing here can damage the greater MMORPG industry beyond repair, Crowdfunding isn't even the typical avenue for it, as a proper MMORPG takes a lot more money than the typical amounts one can gain from a kickstarter.
SC is an anomaly, few are going to be able to repeat what they have done in terms of CF. Especially after the realization has set in that there's a lot more to it than just getting the money. They still have to build the game, we see in these very topics what that means.
You folks are giving this game far too much ownership of the genre, Space sims MMO or otherwise are still a niche endeavor. They will always be such. SC just shows how long it's been since a truly innovative one has been made (in working condition).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
All you have done are personal attacks, you have yet to address what he said. Its almost like you are unable to address the points he makes, I wonder why that is...
A personal attack would be more than bringing up his tendencies. I don't address the points he made because, they may be accurate, these same points have been raised by many others over the course of this games development or lack there of... I don't have a problem with that aspect of this, I just question his motives, which i do not feel based on his past are for the greater good. Anyone with a name can get people behind them by simply repeating their concerns, good intention or not.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What if... They dont really have 85 Million. What if... They just kept reinvesting backer money to increase the counter for marketing purposes. What if.. They really only have a fraction of that amount.
What if...
People are personally attacking him though. You can bring up his colourful post and blog history but when you start adding in how he has just made crap games or has no talent, etc then that is a personal attack.
you in this case doesn't mean you personally but just a broad term.
None of that has any significance to the bigger issue at hand. All it does is serve to muddy the waters. Again, this is a matter of transparency and accountability for the as yet unaccounted for $85+ MILLION dollars. And its a matter that needs to be attended to sooner than later, period. You may not have any interest in protecting the industry or many of the naive backers of this so-called project, but myself and many other conscientious people do. All I can say is thank goodness for the DSmarts of the world.
Wouldn't that be part of his track record? Or pointing out the hypocrisy in some of his statements? His talent comes into question when he starts saying things like "This game is impossible to make"... He bases that on his own experience with the genre, so it becomes a question of whether it really is impossible, or was it simply not possible for him? That's more about his track record, because he's been trying to make games like SC for a long time now.
When you open your mouth about your experience during a tirade against another studios game, yes your games as well as talent are being put willingly into the discussion.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You're the one who brought it up.... stop muddying the waters.
BTW this thread is about CIG giving Derek his money back, and cutting business/Consumer ties with him.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I know it's hard to believe that they really made $85 million. I seriously doubt it because even though Gamers are a very special kind of stupid i refuse to believe they gave that much money for jpg's of spaceships. Given the fact that not even half of these ships are available in the Hangar yet.
I like your Theory though. They really only have maybe $15 million and keep hyping to get more people to buy their ships. That would be awesome.
"It's pretty simple, really. If your only intention in posting about a particular game or topic is to be negative, then yes, you should probably move on. Voicing a negative opinion is fine, continually doing so on the same game is basically just trolling."
- Michael Bitton
Community Manager, MMORPG.com
"As an online discussion about Star Citizen grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Derek Smart approaches 1" - MrSnuffles's law
"I am jumping in here a bit without knowing exactly what you all or talking about."
- SEANMCAD
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Your posts do nothing but distract and deflect from the matter at hand. For the hundredth time, this is not about DSmart. It's about the underlying concerns in his message. Concerns that many others share. If it makes you feel better you can replace his name with John Doe. Although I am thankful that he has the notoriety to bring mass attention to this matter, It could just as well been authored by Charlie Brown or Mickey Mouse. He delineated eight very clear and pointed demands that will bring more transparency and accountability to this matter. There is no muddying in my message. I have been very consistent with my concerns.
Transparency and accountability! That is it!
Nothing more, nothing less.
I see you missed my edit, would have saved you a bunch of words...This thread is about peoples opinions on CIG cutting ties with him, That's all I've offered my take on... IE why that's probably good for CIG, which is due to how he has acted in the past. There are plenty of threads about backer concerns. I tend to stay away from those for the most part, I'm no backer, nor do I have much of an opinion on SC at the given time, (the screenshots looked cool when I first saw them in GI years ago..)
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson