"Really it is all about constant iteration from launch. The whole idea is to be constantly updating. It isn’t like the old days where you had to have everything and the kitchen sink in at launch because you weren’t going to come back to it for awhile. We’re already one year in - another two years puts us at 3 total which is ideal. Any more and things would begin to get stale."
Don't let facts get in the way of your posts -have fun
BOOM! Goes the Dynamite! BOOM!
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Derek Smart has NPD. Also he is a "Snake in a Suit" trying to defame others. He did it back in the 90's, some time ago with Alganon/QuestOnline and tried it with Star Citizen. A real backstabber.
But as Star Citizen was too big already his actions failed (he poisoned the game forums with accusations, alt accounts, tried to start a riot, etc.). He claims that CIG made it personal first. That is a lie.
Of course some of his points seem to be valid (and some are) but he mixes facts with lies and hopes that people are to lazy to do their research.
But the Internet has grown since the 90's and the backfire and the real facts come up.
Please do not pay him attention. It saves you a lot of time and grey cells.
I can understand his anger. Definitely not from his POV but from a psychological.
He can persue in life what he wants but all this anger / grudge / deviousness is irritating for people who follow him a bit. I guess it partly comes from becoming rich due to clever investments and living the cool life. I don´t wanna touch the depth psychology but...
Do you know the feeling when someone comes into a room or talks to you and you feel kind of strange or even intimidated (depending on the level of self esteem)?
Why does he describe himself in this blog? Why does he project his behavior and attitude on CR?
Just by following (and investigating) both records (DS and CR) one must be blind not to see how different both are.
Yes there are people who think people like DS are cool, that they talk the real shit and that they bring it.
*fake yawn* No please... that´s just dazzler behavior for the public and for ego boosting.
I know such people but most of them have changed for the better because they fell hard or were able (the least) to listen to others.
Derek has a big ass pillow and fears no consequences (but threatening others with banning, sueing, insulting) and lashes out when he feels his ego is attacked.
DS self esteem is not as high as might be suggested.
People with high self esteem just don´t act like that.
I also will quote myself (you are the best in this event) what I think about... well this thing... here... that...
LOL all I see from SC people is deflect to DS or ED, right now my money is on SC releases maybe in 2020 and with hardly anything working and money all gone.
I wonder how much people will get on their ships when they try sell them back to Roberts. Did you guys get a warranty on them? :-D
But all joking aside I do hope the game does release with everything you guys wanted in it.
@Year1500 ; it really depends on which part of the interview one is quoting:
"Chris: Basically I’ve been working with a small team over the course of the past year to get the early prototyping and production done. The team has varied in scale from just me, essentially, to about 10 people. "
"Over the course of the last year" = during 2012
You interpret this as one full year.
I read this as a part of 2012, so less than one year. Especially when you mean a team and not one person alone working on it.
@Year1500 ; it really depends on which part of the interview one is quoting:
"Chris: Basically I’ve been working with a small team over the course of the past year to get the early prototyping and production done. The team has varied in scale from just me, essentially, to about 10 people. "
"Over the course of the last year" = during 2012
You interpret this as one full year.
I read this as a part of 2012, so less than one year. Especially when you mean a team and not one person alone working on it.
Have fun
Yes but...
Really it is all about constant iteration from launch. The whole idea is to be constantly updating. It isn’t like the old days where you had to have everything and the kitchen sink in at launch because you weren’t going to come back to it for awhile. We’re already one year in - another two years puts us at 3 total which is ideal. Any more and things would begin to get stale." - Chris Roberts
Pretty much says it all, doesnt it? That along with the other CR quotes listed elsewhere show hes either a liar or has no clue. Not a good guy to be in charge of 100 Million project.
But hey, another $900 ships for sale- Gotta have that ship
@Erillion & @Jacxolope really did enjoy reading the back and forth with you guys. That is why a lot of these threads are fun because of people like you guys.
He didnt go after Elite (which would have been an easy target right after release) so I dont think hes 'picking on SC' just to do it.
When someone has a long standing old feud with Chris Roberts and no old feud with David Braben, it makes more sense to pick on "Star Citizen" instead of "Elite:Dangerous".
Have fun
Smart also hasn't gone after any other Kickstarter project. Just in terms of MMOs he should have gone after The Stomping Land and Greed Monger. Both had successful Kickstarters, but have since been abandoned. Pathfinder Online also had two successful Kickstarters and just earlier this month fired all but three developers.
So if Smart was really doing this for "accountability" and the "integrity of the industry" as he states then he would have gone after these MMOs as well. Further proof he is going after SC exclusively and is full of crap.
I have no doubt that Smart doesn't like Chris and is probably going after him exclusively, but still what you said regarding other kickstarter project makes no sense though - Smart isn't interested in non-space sims... why would he go after non-space sims which he didn't even partake in the kickstarter?
Also, problem with Chris in this instance is he is leaving holes where people have an avenue to attack him. If his project was solid (like Elite Dangerous) there wouldn't have been much holes for Smart to dig on.
I don't know I think Chris only has himself to blame regardless of Smart's intentions, and obviously from my perspective David Braben's management of his project seems to be much more practical and methodical than Chris (the most important thing about projects is completion and delivery, not so much how pretty the presentation looks if it doesn't get deliver on time).
Edit: Also, Chris Robert's former partner, Richard Garriott, didn't get as much flak for his Shroud of the Avatar because at least he have a working alpha where some folks can log in to see it working or any ridiculous feature creeping, lol
@Year1500 ; it really depends on which part of the interview one is quoting:
"Chris: Basically I’ve been working with a small team over the course of the past year to get the early prototyping and production done. The team has varied in scale from just me, essentially, to about 10 people. "
"Over the course of the last year" = during 2012
You interpret this as one full year.
I read this as a part of 2012, so less than one year. Especially when you mean a team and not one person alone working on it.
Have fun
LOL no, CR stated in that interview that they have been working on it for a year. "over the course of the last year" can still mean a year from that date, not just the calendar year. That was just your interpretation.
As CR also stated that work started on it a year ago, its easy, for most people, to see what he means.
I also stated that work on SC started a year before the kickstarter, as the kickstarter was at the end of October, that is still 10 months from the start of the year. So even if it was the calendar year (and we know it was not) I would still be only 2 months off saying a year.
So like I said, SC was started a year before its kickstarter, while ED was started during its kickstarter.
ED started long, long before the kickstarter. Years and years before.
Not full-time and with a full team - but what was originally called Elite 4 was being designed - to some extent - more than 10 years ago.
David Braben has always been designing Elite concept improvements ever since it came out... but that didn't quite meant much unless he starts putting it into codes.
If by your definition of "development" he technically start developing Elite 4 since Frontier: First Encounters ended lol...
Which is same as Chris Roberts since he started thinking about the next space sim way back in the days after Freelancer...
Which is same as Derek Smart himself since he also started thinking about the next space sim since the days of Battlecruiser...
Until you actually coded something tangible and have a plan, it is actually not considered "in development"
Just because a game developer takes a break doesn't mean they are not constantly thinking on what's next create.
@Year1500 ; it really depends on which part of the interview one is quoting:
"Chris: Basically I’ve been working with a small team over the course of the past year to get the early prototyping and production done. The team has varied in scale from just me, essentially, to about 10 people. "
"Over the course of the last year" = during 2012
You interpret this as one full year.
I read this as a part of 2012, so less than one year. Especially when you mean a team and not one person alone working on it.
Have fun
LOL no, CR stated in that interview that they have been working on it for a year. "over the course of the last year" can still mean a year from that date, not just the calendar year. That was just your interpretation.
As CR also stated that work started on it a year ago, its easy, for most people, to see what he means.
I also stated that work on SC started a year before the kickstarter, as the kickstarter was at the end of October, that is still 10 months from the start of the year. So even if it was the calendar year (and we know it was not) I would still be only 2 months off saying a year.
So like I said, SC was started a year before its kickstarter, while ED was started during its kickstarter.
This is irrelevant even if he 'started' work on SC a year before since 'started' can mean a lot of things and have a lot of levels to it. Concept/design that happens before production really doesn't involve a large team and the work done then is mainly planning and hacking together a prototype/demo that is most probably going to be scrapped once an engine and other tools/approaches are finalized.
All this is highlighting how either Derek Smart doesn't understand the full game development cycle from concept to production to release or is purposely misleading people (as usual). He's said some shit that even hobbyist game developers should be able to call him out on. Working on proof of concepts/demos, etc isn't the same as actual full-scale production (not by even a mile).
ED and SC's pre-Kickstarter/Crowdfunding development is IRRELEVANT since the funds were out-of-pocket or from initial investors, not PATRONS.
People honestly need to stop listening to Derek Smart and research the claims against SC and CR themselves. It took me five minutes of research to be able to call bullshit on Derek Smart's MMORPG.com interview; which had many misleading or possibly downright lies about SC.
Here's the deal, though. I'm not a backer and I have my own issues with the SC project and the way funds are being raised (like $900 ships that don't exist yet). That's a legitimate issue and I think it hurts the gaming industry if Star Citizen becomes a massive hit. However, that's getting lost in this COMPLETE AND UTTER NONSENSE about Sandi, layoffs, long cons, and what not.
My perspective is actually from a neutral standpoint as well. I'm not interested in this style of game: I prefer fantasy games or survival games like ARK (which, in my view, will go down as one of the best games of all time). So, I haven't nor will I back it. I'm here calling out the bullshit since it only takes a moment to research claims and research someone's history of flaming & trolling. Derek Smart is a troll and I suspect he's also out of money for his own project. This is -- what appears to me at least -- the acts of a desperate man looking for any way to capitalize on SC.
Lol, and look who has shown his face again it's "warly I'm not interested in the game but I've made hundreds of post about the game " yeah your delusional if you think anyone believes your rubbish claim of neutrality.
Lol, and look who has shown his face again it's "warly I'm not interested in the game but I've made hundreds of post about the game " yeah your delusional if you think anyone believes your rubbish claim of neutrality.
I've seen this type of nonsense leveled at various MMO's over the years: Darkfall was vaporware or 'didn't even exist'; was a scam; etc. Despite the fact that a little research shown otherwise. People online -- especially here on MMORPG.com -- have this rather sick and twisted need for large game projects to fail so they can entertain themselves with the backlash.
It started with games like Mourning and Dark & Light. Ever since, there's a crowd of people -- and you can even look up their history here -- are craving desperately for that next 'drama fix'. It's fucking sickening as the same crap is happening here. It's irritating as hell since I have a knowledge & experience with game development seeing IGNORANT after IGNORANT or purposely misleading/strait up lying bullshit thrown at developers: just to cause bullshit.
This is highly unethical and absolutely wrong what Derek Smart's doing. Then, people who have no clue or are simply looking for drama, regurgitate the complete and utter bullshit. Then, people who are too lazy to research for themselves are strung along believing all the shit thrown at the wall.
You can call me a shill all you want, but researching the claims by Derek Smart and paying attention to what he's actually said then actually 'thinking critically' about it will tell you he's full of shit. It'll also show that it appears that he has a personal agenda in all of this. I suspect he's out of money.
@Warley I agree but people will be people and not read/understand and continue to make posts that support DS. I can agree crowd funding needs to be held accountable but what DS is doing is just more drama drama drama as always.
Funny how someone shows proof that CR said SC was being worked on for a year previous to the Kickstarter and Warley comes in saying oh that proof doesn't matter, look how full of shit DS is!!
@Warley I agree but people will be people and not read/understand and continue to make posts that support DS. I can agree crowd funding needs to be held accountable but what DS is doing is just more drama drama drama as always.
I agree, completely. Accountability is important, but that leads to the issue that everyone's interpretation of accountability -- or rather, what it entails -- is going to be different. Some believe the idea that independent forensic accounting is reasonable. Which presents other problems that is really not in the best interest of a crowdfunded project. I think a more in-depth financial summary of where the project is at, fund levels, etc is appropriate, though.
Also, I think there should be some sort of highly detailed record of anything related to financials that are required to be made available if a project fails.
Funny how someone shows proof that CR said SC was being worked on for a year previous to the Kickstarter and Warley comes in saying oh that proof doesn't matter, look how full of shit DS is!!
He is delusional and in denial, no amount of proof will do for him. But never forgot that warly baby will not be playing the game and has no interest whatsoever in SC lol.
He is just an defender of true and the, well you know how the rest goes.
Funny how someone shows proof that CR said SC was being worked on for a year previous to the Kickstarter and Warley comes in saying oh that proof doesn't matter, look how full of shit DS is!!
That's proof that SC was being worked on before Kickstarter, but it's irrelevant. This entire conversation about how long ED, SC, LoD have been in development is pointless. A better point of discussion is delays: Star Citizen, one year; ED, I'm not sure; and LoD is at least four years delayed. In fact, from what I can find so far, LoD doesn't seem to be much different than what it was four years ago.
Now, do I need to go into the development cycle of games to explain why it's irrelevant?
Besides, Derek Smart is the last person to call someone out on delays or development time. Doing so makes him hypocritical. You're basically following the words of a hypocrite.
DS just re-tweets something someone sends him and he is condemn and crucified over it even thou he says they changed it. I can understand the hate by a lot of you but give the guy a break, he just made a comment nothing more in that tweet. At least give him hell when he actually does spread some BS, not over stuff like this.
Funny how someone shows proof that CR said SC was being worked on for a year previous to the Kickstarter and Warley comes in saying oh that proof doesn't matter, look how full of shit DS is!!
He is delusional and in denial, no amount of proof will do for him. But never forgot that warly baby will not be playing the game and has no interest whatsoever in SC lol.
He is just an defender of true and the, well you know how the rest goes.
Please provide proof that Star Citizen is a long con. Explain to me why Derek Smart said that CIG were hiring graphic programmers and not network programmers (and used this as a point of criticism) in that MMORPG.com podcast interview, but a quick search on LinkedIn (and I posted links to the people's LinkedIn profiles) shows that CIG has a large amount of programmers that have worked on online, networked games (AS NETWORK PROGRAMMERS) in the past at highly known, large game companies.
Why did Derek Smart, when he said that the Crytek Engine couldn't be used for Star Citizen, fail to mention that CIG has several programmers who worked at CryTek under employment? Which you'd expect from a company looking to do extensive modifications to an engine?
These are some BLISTERING facts that anyone can find in five minutes with a Google/LinkedIn search.
If you ignore these facts then you're just either being willfully ignorant or have an agenda.
Comments
But as Star Citizen was too big already his actions failed (he poisoned the game forums with accusations, alt accounts, tried to start a riot, etc.). He claims that CIG made it personal first. That is a lie.
Of course some of his points seem to be valid (and some are) but he mixes facts with lies and hopes that people are to lazy to do their research.
But the Internet has grown since the 90's and the backfire and the real facts come up.
Please do not pay him attention. It saves you a lot of time and grey cells.
I wonder how much people will get on their ships when they try sell them back to Roberts. Did you guys get a warranty on them? :-D
But all joking aside I do hope the game does release with everything you guys wanted in it.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
it really depends on which part of the interview one is quoting:
"Chris: Basically I’ve been working with a small team over the course of the past year to get the early prototyping and production done. The team has varied in scale from just me, essentially, to about 10 people. "
"Over the course of the last year" = during 2012
You interpret this as one full year.
I read this as a part of 2012, so less than one year. Especially when you mean a team and not one person alone working on it.
Have fun
'nuff said
Really it is all about constant iteration from launch. The whole idea is to be constantly updating. It isn’t like the old days where you had to have everything and the kitchen sink in at launch because you weren’t going to come back to it for awhile. We’re already one year in - another two years puts us at 3 total which is ideal. Any more and things would begin to get stale." - Chris Roberts
Pretty much says it all, doesnt it? That along with the other CR quotes listed elsewhere show hes either a liar or has no clue. Not a good guy to be in charge of 100 Million project.
But hey, another $900 ships for sale- Gotta have that ship
Might come back if any really major things go down but in the meantime...
-Have fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Also, problem with Chris in this instance is he is leaving holes where people have an avenue to attack him. If his project was solid (like Elite Dangerous) there wouldn't have been much holes for Smart to dig on.
I don't know I think Chris only has himself to blame regardless of Smart's intentions, and obviously from my perspective David Braben's management of his project seems to be much more practical and methodical than Chris (the most important thing about projects is completion and delivery, not so much how pretty the presentation looks if it doesn't get deliver on time).
Edit: Also, Chris Robert's former partner, Richard Garriott, didn't get as much flak for his Shroud of the Avatar because at least he have a working alpha where some folks can log in to see it working or any ridiculous feature creeping, lol
As CR also stated that work started on it a year ago, its easy, for most people, to see what he means.
I also stated that work on SC started a year before the kickstarter, as the kickstarter was at the end of October, that is still 10 months from the start of the year. So even if it was the calendar year (and we know it was not) I would still be only 2 months off saying a year.
So like I said, SC was started a year before its kickstarter, while ED was started during its kickstarter.
Not full-time and with a full team - but what was originally called Elite 4 was being designed - to some extent - more than 10 years ago.
If by your definition of "development" he technically start developing Elite 4 since Frontier: First Encounters ended lol...
Which is same as Chris Roberts since he started thinking about the next space sim way back in the days after Freelancer...
Which is same as Derek Smart himself since he also started thinking about the next space sim since the days of Battlecruiser...
Until you actually coded something tangible and have a plan, it is actually not considered "in development"
Just because a game developer takes a break doesn't mean they are not constantly thinking on what's next create.
If you don't know that for a fact, how can you possible claim that ED wasn't started before the Kickstarter?
All this is highlighting how either Derek Smart doesn't understand the full game development cycle from concept to production to release or is purposely misleading people (as usual). He's said some shit that even hobbyist game developers should be able to call him out on. Working on proof of concepts/demos, etc isn't the same as actual full-scale production (not by even a mile).
ED and SC's pre-Kickstarter/Crowdfunding development is IRRELEVANT since the funds were out-of-pocket or from initial investors, not PATRONS.
People honestly need to stop listening to Derek Smart and research the claims against SC and CR themselves. It took me five minutes of research to be able to call bullshit on Derek Smart's MMORPG.com interview; which had many misleading or possibly downright lies about SC.
Here's the deal, though. I'm not a backer and I have my own issues with the SC project and the way funds are being raised (like $900 ships that don't exist yet). That's a legitimate issue and I think it hurts the gaming industry if Star Citizen becomes a massive hit. However, that's getting lost in this COMPLETE AND UTTER NONSENSE about Sandi, layoffs, long cons, and what not.
My perspective is actually from a neutral standpoint as well. I'm not interested in this style of game: I prefer fantasy games or survival games like ARK (which, in my view, will go down as one of the best games of all time). So, I haven't nor will I back it. I'm here calling out the bullshit since it only takes a moment to research claims and research someone's history of flaming & trolling. Derek Smart is a troll and I suspect he's also out of money for his own project. This is -- what appears to me at least -- the acts of a desperate man looking for any way to capitalize on SC.
It started with games like Mourning and Dark & Light. Ever since, there's a crowd of people -- and you can even look up their history here -- are craving desperately for that next 'drama fix'. It's fucking sickening as the same crap is happening here. It's irritating as hell since I have a knowledge & experience with game development seeing IGNORANT after IGNORANT or purposely misleading/strait up lying bullshit thrown at developers: just to cause bullshit.
This is highly unethical and absolutely wrong what Derek Smart's doing. Then, people who have no clue or are simply looking for drama, regurgitate the complete and utter bullshit. Then, people who are too lazy to research for themselves are strung along believing all the shit thrown at the wall.
You can call me a shill all you want, but researching the claims by Derek Smart and paying attention to what he's actually said then actually 'thinking critically' about it will tell you he's full of shit. It'll also show that it appears that he has a personal agenda in all of this. I suspect he's out of money.
Also, I think there should be some sort of highly detailed record of anything related to financials that are required to be made available if a project fails.
He is just an defender of true and the, well you know how the rest goes.
Now, do I need to go into the development cycle of games to explain why it's irrelevant?
Besides, Derek Smart is the last person to call someone out on delays or development time. Doing so makes him hypocritical. You're basically following the words of a hypocrite.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Why did Derek Smart, when he said that the Crytek Engine couldn't be used for Star Citizen, fail to mention that CIG has several programmers who worked at CryTek under employment? Which you'd expect from a company looking to do extensive modifications to an engine?
These are some BLISTERING facts that anyone can find in five minutes with a Google/LinkedIn search.
If you ignore these facts then you're just either being willfully ignorant or have an agenda.