ROFL, this is getting more hilarious all the time. It is like Roberts set this all up to be some Superman who even kryptonite can't touch. It is almost once the money started rolling in he set things up to benefit him and be untouchable.
I agree about it getting hilarious. I almost think that some people *pointing at you* don't think about how hilariously ridiculous their posts sound. I would NOT be surprised if you're making these posts from your own personal fallout shelter. I don't know why everything needs to be a conspiracy theory with fucking Americans. I'm really sorry if that's over-generalization, but if more Americans just took some time to think about what the fuck they're saying, they might just see how ridiculous they sound.
Think about what you're saying. You're talking as though CR, with $80 whole million dollars, set up the Internet to make himself untouchable. You do realize how improbable, or impossible, that is, right? In addition to that, CR has hundreds of employees who are burning cash on a monthly basis. Additionally, there are operational costs. If CR was buying the Internet, he would already be out of money.
Please try to get past your "crazy" and inject some logic into your posts.
OH I am, and your very own posts make it sound like he is untouchable. Yet the next post you make says he isn't and it sounds crazy. I love how you start swearing to try to make a point. That alone shows ignorance. Not only that but now you want to say am crazy, that is really getting old. Really amazing when someone takes a side that really shows Roberts is the corrupt one in this whole mess. They are marked as crazy. Well guess I will wear that badge with pride.
The one thing we just need to do is very simple! Just follow the money and it looks like it is headed overseas and to Roberts and his family. Only crazy thing in this whole mess are the people protecting Roberts. :-D
Nobody is protecting anyone. Again, there are things that we know, like there are 250+ people working at CIG. If we were to take the 250 people and say, they are making $70,000 per year, which is EXTREMEMLY conservative. Then, if you factor in the labor burden (which is anywhere from 50% to over 100% of the employees salary) which includes everything from cost of space each employee occupies, equipment, licensing, etc. at 40%, let's say. the annual burn for CIG is $24.5 million and that excludes any other costs such as marketing, trade shows, etc.
Since we've already seen 3 years pass, the people estimating that they will run out of money in 2017 would be fairly accurate. However, the suggestion that this money is being funnelled into some secret account are ludicrous.
Why don't you follow your own advice and "follow the money". Like seriously, please take 15 or 20 minutes to think about how he could possibly support the number of employees he has, for as long as he has, with the money that they have made. This is what I mean, please stop muddying the American gene pool with your non-sense and actually be logical for a couple minutes out of your life.
Oh!! and if you DO have some logic to inject, please feel free to do so, and explain exactly what your theory is, with supporting evidence that is at least believable or hasn't already been disproven. I'm open for a sensible debate using logic, but I will continue to criticize if you continue to use insane theories that aren't realistic.
@CrazKanuk already did but you refuse to acknowledge it.
I've read back through all your posts over the past 3 pages (back to when you're calling DS a loon). However, I see zero "facts" at all. I see LOTS of speculation. I see plenty of calling for accountability. I see zero evidence though. I'm not even talking about a smoking gun, I'm talking about any logical thought. I don't see any logical thought that you're basing your arguments on. If it's your contention that these are logical arguments, though, I'll just stop arguing right now since you're obviously way more talented than I am, to be typing while wearing a straight-jacket.
I just gave you conservative numbers that show they are burning $25 million annually. So give me any sort of argument as to how Chris is funnelling this money away from the company, when the money pool is already approaching dry?
"Our internal headcount has gone from five at the end of 2012 to 59 at the end of 2013 to 183 at the end of 2014 and to 255 now." According to a recent vblog one can add approx 50 contract workers to that number in 2015.
I think you based your estimate on the number of employees being 250ish over the last 3 years. For the current number of employees we have arrived at very similar numbers (in another earlier thread i posted an estimate on the current budget burn rate based on average programmer income).
the question I have is regarding his wife and her fake credentials
Just a single small detail ... who IS Chris Roberts wife ?
Not rumours (which claim its Sandi Gardiner), PROOF please !
No Trumpisms please ... just repeating something often enough to make it appear as "truth".
Have fun
Okay, lets take the 'wife' part away since you're right (cant prove it)
Why did she lie about her credentials , still be placed in a top tier position (that is a redundant position) and is still employed?
If they're streamlining dont you think folks who lied about their education and skills and fill a position that a media company is already filling would be #1 on the list to be "streamlined"-
I also think that 'rumor" is pretty credible but lets just stick to factsx.
Lies about education. Misrepresents her credentials to the community . Fills a job already provided by a very proficient media mogul . keeps job while ohers are losing their jobs due to "streamlining"...Not layoffs though lol.
thoughts about that?
EDIT- hey, I'm sure you know. the FPS module was delayed yet again... How many times now? I'm really surprised.
edit 2- Starting that 10 hour shift over in the EU with your smartphone? Bummer - Mondays are a bitch huh? hey, at least you have me here to talk to, right? i'll brighten your day.
Also, I lol'd at 'trumpisms' and im stealing that.
Now why would we possibly think that she is his wife.
"Our internal headcount has gone from five at the end of 2012 to 59 at the end of 2013 to 183 at the end of 2014 and to 255 now." According to a recent vblog one can add approx 50 contract workers to that number in 2015.
I think you based your estimate on the number of employees being 250ish over the last 3 years. For the current number of employees we have arrived at very similar numbers (in another earlier thread i posted an estimate on the current budget burn rate based on average programmer income).
Have fun
Thanks for the numbers!!! Yeah, that actually is pretty helpful. I didn't see your post on average programmer income, but I'm assuming you'll confirm that my $70k per year salary estimate is pretty conservative (as stated). My inclination says a programmer is more around the $120k mark. Factor in artists, designers, etc. (who are probably in the $60-$90 range) and I figured $70k was pretty fair.
Feel free to link that post if you've got it. I'm not arguing with you, I'm simply trying to illustrate that all the conspiracy theories surrounding the game are hilarious. The suggestions are just so overly elaborate that it doesn't make any sense at all. Here's another CRAZY idea!! Maybe they're actually going to try to DELIVER the game!!!! It's just insane enough to work!!! We'll trick these people by delivering a fully-functional game and continuing to take their money for years while they enjoy playing our game!!! Muahahahaha!!!! My plan is coming to fruition!! You silly gamers!!!
ROFL, this is getting more hilarious all the time. It is like Roberts set this all up to be some Superman who even kryptonite can't touch. It is almost once the money started rolling in he set things up to benefit him and be untouchable.
I agree about it getting hilarious. I almost think that some people *pointing at you* don't think about how hilariously ridiculous their posts sound. I would NOT be surprised if you're making these posts from your own personal fallout shelter. I don't know why everything needs to be a conspiracy theory with fucking Americans. I'm really sorry if that's over-generalization, but if more Americans just took some time to think about what the fuck they're saying, they might just see how ridiculous they sound.
Think about what you're saying. You're talking as though CR, with $80 whole million dollars, set up the Internet to make himself untouchable. You do realize how improbable, or impossible, that is, right? In addition to that, CR has hundreds of employees who are burning cash on a monthly basis. Additionally, there are operational costs. If CR was buying the Internet, he would already be out of money.
Please try to get past your "crazy" and inject some logic into your posts.
OH I am, and your very own posts make it sound like he is untouchable. Yet the next post you make says he isn't and it sounds crazy. I love how you start swearing to try to make a point. That alone shows ignorance. Not only that but now you want to say am crazy, that is really getting old. Really amazing when someone takes a side that really shows Roberts is the corrupt one in this whole mess. They are marked as crazy. Well guess I will wear that badge with pride.
The one thing we just need to do is very simple! Just follow the money and it looks like it is headed overseas and to Roberts and his family. Only crazy thing in this whole mess are the people protecting Roberts. :-D
Perhaps try a little research on how privately owned companies work. I see a whole lot of conjecture, and very little evidence of anything in your posts. You said crazy a lot though, anyway I have some questions. Do you expect money to never move? Why are you worried about that in the first place? Do all of the other companies you do business with keep their money in one country? Are you aware that the game will be playable in other countries and they will need to set up infrastructure there regardless of your opinion?
You just seem to be just regurgitating arguments you've seen other places, everything you've complained about in this thread, are things done even by top publicly traded companies all over the world.
Also I agree your kryptonite statement, with the bold and everything is pretty outlandish at best.
So posts I been reading I get where this game is barely in alpha stage, with only 3 modules active and only one of them where you can actually do anything. This from how long? 3 years?
Where one post says:
"
it's sort of in alpha. they're selling the client, but basically
what you're getting is a game they're still toiling away at. you can
also buy [enormously expensive] ships. there used to be - when the
kickstarter was running - a way you could also get a sort of insurance
on the ships, too. so, really, it's set up as a massive, massive scam.
let's not forget that mister roberts LIED with his kickstarter, too. so, you know, it's sort of legitimate? but kind of not?
[the
lie: WE'LL HAVE A TRUE SINGLE PLAYER GAME FOR YOU ALSO!1!! and then
about thirty seconds before the kickstarter ended he came out and said,
"OH WHOOPS WE WERE KIDDING THAT'S NOT REALLY WHAT WE PROMISED."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here it is again <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Warning: the following contains a lot of speculative numbers and assumptions (insert your own and recalculate)
Its also interesting for me to read about the unsustainability of this project. CIG currently has 255 employees. Lets assume that ON AVERAGE every employee costs 6500 $ per month.
Thats
about 1,7 million $ in wages per month. Lets assume CIG spends another
half million on contractors and infrastructure (=most of the hardware
has already been bought by now). Of the 85 M$ raised for the project
quite a bit has been spend already, but in previous years the number of
employees was significantly lower. In my guestimate (!) there are 60 M$
ish left. With a spending of 2.2 M$ per month that amounts to about 27
months (= 2 years 3 months) or until November 2017. You can add to
that every additional money coming in the next two years ... if its
another 11 M$ (and thats an extremely conservative estimate) you get
another half a year (until May 2018) covered. For comparison ... in the
last two years on the average around 2.5 M$ were added per month through
crowdfunding.
I personally expect Squadron 42 to be ready
sometime in 2016. I suspect it will sell well. Lets assume 650.000
copies in addition to those who pledged (taken from the example
Elite:Dangerous .. shows approx the size of the interested buyer segment
above and beyond the initial backers). At 55 $ per game that would be
around 36 M$ from sales. Production costs a bit, at some time CIG owners
want some profit too, all the CIG eymployess want a bonus for
completion ... . Lets say .. another 14 M$ are available for pushing the
development of the Persistent Universe forward. Its December 2018 now.
Even
with a moderate delay the persistent Universe should launch sometime in
2017. In the meantime some people will buy Part 3 of the SQ42 missions
.... gets you into 2019. etc. etc.
So posts I been reading I get where this game is barely in alpha stage, with only 3 modules active and only one of them where you can actually do anything. This from how long? 3 years?
Where one post says:
"
it's sort of in alpha. they're selling the client, but basically
what you're getting is a game they're still toiling away at. you can
also buy [enormously expensive] ships. there used to be - when the
kickstarter was running - a way you could also get a sort of insurance
on the ships, too. so, really, it's set up as a massive, massive scam.
let's not forget that mister roberts LIED with his kickstarter, too. so, you know, it's sort of legitimate? but kind of not?
[the
lie: WE'LL HAVE A TRUE SINGLE PLAYER GAME FOR YOU ALSO!1!! and then
about thirty seconds before the kickstarter ended he came out and said,
"OH WHOOPS WE WERE KIDDING THAT'S NOT REALLY WHAT WE PROMISED."
am i a little annoyed at the man? yeah. kinda "
Yet fanbois want to defend this? Amazing!
Because it's not even accurate!!! There is a single-player. It actually makes me wonder if they're getting SC and ED mixed up. Elite: Dangerous said they would have single player, but didn't deliver. To my knowledge, the single-player is still planned for SC.
So posts I been reading I get where this game is barely in alpha stage, with only 3 modules active and only one of them where you can actually do anything. This from how long? 3 years?
Where one post says:
"
it's sort of in alpha. they're selling the client, but basically
what you're getting is a game they're still toiling away at. you can
also buy [enormously expensive] ships. there used to be - when the
kickstarter was running - a way you could also get a sort of insurance
on the ships, too. so, really, it's set up as a massive, massive scam.
let's not forget that mister roberts LIED with his kickstarter, too. so, you know, it's sort of legitimate? but kind of not?
[the
lie: WE'LL HAVE A TRUE SINGLE PLAYER GAME FOR YOU ALSO!1!! and then
about thirty seconds before the kickstarter ended he came out and said,
"OH WHOOPS WE WERE KIDDING THAT'S NOT REALLY WHAT WE PROMISED."
am i a little annoyed at the man? yeah. kinda "
Yet fanbois want to defend this? Amazing!
So you admit you know nothing of what the actual game is like so far, aren't a patron, and have nothing valid to offer, got it. If you'd bother to read the other threads that have already discussed this issue at length, you'd know that backers voted on the changing of scope from a small game to a large one. This was a community decision, Roberts asked people if they would rather him use the money to create something larger than originally pitched, or If they wanted the original small scale game. People chose the larger game obviously.
So posts I been reading I get where this game is barely in alpha stage, with only 3 modules active and only one of them where you can actually do anything. This from how long? 3 years?
Where one post says:
"
it's sort of in alpha. they're selling the client, but basically
what you're getting is a game they're still toiling away at. you can
also buy [enormously expensive] ships. there used to be - when the
kickstarter was running - a way you could also get a sort of insurance
on the ships, too. so, really, it's set up as a massive, massive scam.
let's not forget that mister roberts LIED with his kickstarter, too. so, you know, it's sort of legitimate? but kind of not?
[the
lie: WE'LL HAVE A TRUE SINGLE PLAYER GAME FOR YOU ALSO!1!! and then
about thirty seconds before the kickstarter ended he came out and said,
"OH WHOOPS WE WERE KIDDING THAT'S NOT REALLY WHAT WE PROMISED."
am i a little annoyed at the man? yeah. kinda "
Yet fanbois want to defend this? Amazing!
So you admit you know nothing of what the actual game is like so far, aren't a patron, and have nothing valid to offer, got it. If you'd bother to read the other threads that have already discussed this issue at length, you'd know that backers voted on the changing of scope from a small game to a large one. This was a community decision, Roberts asked people if they would rather him use the money to create something larger than originally pitched, or If they wanted the original small scale game. People chose the larger game obviously.
Nice how you put words into my mouth, you really are funny. But at least you admit he did do this. Now can you back it up with proof? Like my words your words are exactly that only words. So show me the proof please but even when you do at least you admit he did scam people by saying single player then backing away and saying no single player. I'm also sure a lot of people did not agree to what he proposed, so please show some kind of proof you just admitted too.
He must have run some kind of reliable poll to get a fair read out of what the backers wanted. I will wait for you to put it up. Be back later to see this reliable fair poll going to play my game.
"We're going to take a break from Meet the Devs for a bit while we retool other aspects of our overall video production"
Wow, i thought the video production was top knotch. couldnt be spin? nah.... Couldn't be about suddenly unexpected departure of james Pugh- They would have told us...Yup, retooling the video production. Wonder how long 'a bit' is?
"More patience and TRUST is needed" hahahahahahahahahaha, I think its accountability thats needed becaiuse so far 'trust" hasnt gotten us anywhere- Excepting trusting in the fact there will always be another ship to buy for hundreds of dollars.
which sums up my feelings on 'trust us and have patience"
With this knowledge, and repeated interviews stating such, it’s not hard to see why backers would believe that this would be possible without a 3-5 year time table. They did not work in game development all their life, they did not come to people asking for money and stating that this could be done in “X” amount of time. This is what they were told, and the believed it.
So to ask for a bit of patience is just laughable. To think that the backers should have “known better” is just insulting. They were going off of what someone, with knowledge of every facet of the game was telling them, and it’s not hard to reasonably assume that they took him at his word.
So this raises the question, either CR was lying every time he stated that this was possible or like so many commentators before him CR doesn’t know how long game development takes either? I don’t believe he set out to mislead anyone, but honestly why continue to state it was doable, if so many were supposed to know it clearly wasn’t? It just shows a level of disconnect from reality, if this is the case, that should be troubling to say the least.
More at a certain internet Warlords twitter-
If I were a betting man I would bet things are going to gedt damn interesting in the next couple months. many twists, turns and surprises for all.
"We're going to take a break from Meet the Devs for a bit while we retool other aspects of our overall video production"
Wow, i thought the video production was top knotch. couldnt be spin? nah.... Couldn't be about suddenly unexpected departure of james Pugh- They would have told us...Yup, retooling the video production. Wonder how long 'a bit' is?
"More patience and TRUST is needed" hahahahahahahahahaha, I think its accountability thats needed becaiuse so far 'trust" hasnt gotten us anywhere- Excepting trusting in the fact there will always be another ship to buy for hundreds of dollars.
which sums up my feelings on 'trust us and have patience"
With this knowledge, and repeated interviews stating such, it’s not hard to see why backers would believe that this would be possible without a 3-5 year time table. They did not work in game development all their life, they did not come to people asking for money and stating that this could be done in “X” amount of time. This is what they were told, and the believed it.
So to ask for a bit of patience is just laughable. To think that the backers should have “known better” is just insulting. They were going off of what someone, with knowledge of every facet of the game was telling them, and it’s not hard to reasonably assume that they took him at his word.
So this raises the question, either CR was lying every time he stated that this was possible or like so many commentators before him CR doesn’t know how long game development takes either? I don’t believe he set out to mislead anyone, but honestly why continue to state it was doable, if so many were supposed to know it clearly wasn’t? It just shows a level of disconnect from reality, if this is the case, that should be troubling to say the least.
More at a certain internet Warlords twitter-
If I were a betting man I would bet things are going to gedt damn interesting in the next couple months. many twists, turns and surprises for all.
Jacxolope Good article great info and without a doubt things will be very interesting. I'm starting to feel sorry for the fanboy's, this won't end well for them.
These are all things that happen in every other company in the gaming industry, you just don't hear about it because there's no transparency from those companies. It just so happens, there are a lot of people that don't know how the world works watching for changes, so they can flame them because they don't know it's normal in every industry. People move, people leave, companies grow, companies shrink; sometimes they get rid of under skilled people. Just like Retail industry has seasonal positions, where they hire for increased demand for a few months. Gaming is similar in where you only need certain people for so long before their job has been finished. You don't hire one guy to build anything of this scale, you hire a bunch of people for the specific tasks they do efficiently, then they go home. You don't keep around redundant positions, that's called wasting money.
Further more I'm sure CIG knows full well how long it takes to make a game, what people refuse to understand is that people who gave money voted for a larger game, they knew it would take more time. Anything that happened in the kickstarter is irrelevant. The kickstarter only brought in $6 million of the total money they've received, the other $90+ million came in the 2 years after the kickstarter. The game is on track for the money it has taken in, given the time frame of when it received the funds. If you want to really follow the money you might start by learning when they actually got it.
These are all things that happen in every other company in the gaming industry, you just don't hear about it because there's no transparency from those companies. It just so happens, there are a lot of people that don't know how the world works watching for changes, so they can flame them because they don't know it's normal in every industry. People move, people leave, companies grow, companies shrink; sometimes they get rid of under skilled people. Just like Retail industry has seasonal positions, where they hire for increased demand for a few months. Gaming is similar in where you only need certain people for so long before their job has been finished. You don't hire one guy to build anything of this scale, you hire a bunch of people for the specific tasks they do efficiently, then they go home. You don't keep around redundant positions, that's called wasting money.
Further more I'm sure CIG knows full well how long it takes to make a game, what people refuse to understand is that people who gave money voted for a larger game, they knew it would take more time. Anything that happened in the kickstarter is irrelevant. The kickstarter only brought in $6 million of the total money they've received, the other $90+ million came in the 2 years after the kickstarter. The game is on track for the money it has taken in, given the time frame of when it received the funds. If you want to really follow the money you might start by learning when they actually got it.
That is not what CR said a number of times so he clearly has no idea when the game will be done. Also you make it sound like 6m is nothing. Last point yes companies do let people go but normally that happens at end of beta. Not before even a half of a game isn't made. Plus i really do not think where and when the money was brought in, the backers should get the updates they were promised and not updates where CR says the same stuff over and over
These are all things that happen in every other company in the gaming industry, you just don't hear about it because there's no transparency from those companies. It just so happens, there are a lot of people that don't know how the world works watching for changes, so they can flame them because they don't know it's normal in every industry. People move, people leave, companies grow, companies shrink; sometimes they get rid of under skilled people. Just like Retail industry has seasonal positions, where they hire for increased demand for a few months. Gaming is similar in where you only need certain people for so long before their job has been finished. You don't hire one guy to build anything of this scale, you hire a bunch of people for the specific tasks they do efficiently, then they go home. You don't keep around redundant positions, that's called wasting money.
Further more I'm sure CIG knows full well how long it takes to make a game, what people refuse to understand is that people who gave money voted for a larger game, they knew it would take more time. Anything that happened in the kickstarter is irrelevant. The kickstarter only brought in $6 million of the total money they've received, the other $90+ million came in the 2 years after the kickstarter. The game is on track for the money it has taken in, given the time frame of when it received the funds. If you want to really follow the money you might start by learning when they actually got it.
That is not what CR said a number of times so he clearly has no idea when the game will be done. Also you make it sound like 6m is nothing. Last point yes companies do let people go but normally that happens at end of beta. Not before even a half of a game isn't made. Plus i really do not think where and when the money was brought in, the backers should get the updates they were promised and not updates where CR says the same stuff over and over
I think the only one who clearly has their time line skewed is you no offense, but it has been already beat to death in threads here on this forum, I'll say it again one more time. The original scope of the game was a small niche space sim that Roberts thought fans would be interested in, it was going to be barely bigger than the already playable Arena Commander module. After the kickstarter ended is where it really started to take off and it brought in big money. Roberts had a post on the forums and a video and asked for community feedback on whether the game should have more than just Arena Commander type play, they decided it would be much bigger and that in turn takes more time. This has been said over and over, the original planed launch from the kickstarter were plans for a much smaller game.
Alas though, these are facts you wouldn't know because you aren't a patron, you're just someone sitting back reading other peoples opinions and touting them as your own. Also for the record $6 million isn't a lot of money in markets of today, gaming companies are spending in the hundreds of millions on console titles. Do you really think $6 million would have been enough to be a genre defining space sim mmo? I don't think so. You can't just collect $90+ million and not take your time to make something right.
Alas though, these are facts you wouldn't know because you aren't a patron, you're just someone sitting back reading other peoples opinions and touting them as your own. Also for the record $6 million isn't a lot of money in markets of today, gaming companies are spending in the hundreds of millions on console titles. Do you really think $6 million would have been enough to be a genre defining space sim mmo? I don't think so. You can't just collect $90+ million and not take your time to make something right.
In regards to planetside: …and then in the following year (2014) we’ll release sort of a planetside module which will be kind of a social module. That’s where you can go into the bar and talk to all the people, buy/sell stuff, upgrade your ship. ” –Chris Roberts, Forbes May 2013 Interview
In regards to planetside again: “ The planet side module releases sometime next year (Chris tells us perhaps March or April) and will include the social aspects of being on a planet. You’ll be able to do things like go to the bar and chat. ” –Chris Roberts MMORPG.com Interview, PAX East 2013
In regards to Squadren 42 and the Persistent Universe: “ [Then] an alpha of the single-player game, and then finally a beta of the persistent universe by the end of the year (2014).
More on SQ42 and the PU: “ Further out is the single player alpha (roughly August 2014) and the alpha for system universe (again, roughly December 2014). ”
In regards to the PU: …and then a beta of the persistent universe by the end of the year (2014), which essentially is bringing all of these things into one holistic piece, and then we’ll go live after the beta which I would anticipate would probably be sometime in early 2015. But essentially from the end of 2014 you should be able to play the full game, it’ll just be beta because there obviously still will be things to tweak and balance, and we’ll try and keep the player base constrained until after we’ve gone through beta, because, you know, it’s not really a beta if you’ve got a million players. ” –Chris Roberts, Forbes May 2013 Interview
More on the PU: [… We] plan to launch the Persistent Universe sometime in 2015 and expect to have all the features we’ve talked about to date implemented and functioning (with the help of the community which will be testing them) over the course of the ensuing year. ” –Ben Lesnick on April 25, 2014
And even more: “ The backers should be able to fly around in a small version of a persistent universe toward the end of next year. ” –Chris Roberts on June 16, 2014
A small example (theres more out there)-
Also, whats your feelings on the fiasco about CIG now charging their customers to downgrade ships? CIG promised ships would work in a certain manner and folks gave their hard earned money for these promises- turns out some of the ships arent exactly living up to the hype , GIG is constantly changing things around and backers are downgrading ships to get something closer to what they were told the ship they were buying would be-
CIG has said this is a 'huge burden" on their automated system and are looking at charging peoiple for 'abusing " the system by attaching a monetary penalty.
-Some of the comments of backers are surprising given the fact that many of theswe folks have been nothing but blind supporters-
Am I really to believe that moving data around in what amounts to an Excel sheet is some kind of cost or liability? I think I know why the word Schmeg is used... I can perform thousands of data manipulations in the blink of an eye with 0 loss of fidelity on my home machine all day long... let alone that this would be an equal issue with upgrading but of course no fee there...
Should we be glad that it is an option or upset that it is has unnecessary penalties? Penalties, mind you, that are only really felt by people who bought bigger pledges.
Of all the lame excuses that I have ever seen, this can easily compete with the worst...
I mean ok, any company can have "reasons" to do such things. Which is milking a little bit more money. While I don't approve this scraps picking, I can understand it. It's their game, their business model, and they are free to do whatever they deem necessary with it.
However, please, have at least a little bit of respect to your customers, and don't come up with this stupid "explanations". It's embarrassing. Sometimes it's better to be silent.
nearly 100 Million dollars and now they're nickle and diming the very people who "gave" them their jobs and funds. Also note how many people use the words "buy my ship" and "when you sold me my ship"- Should CIG make a statement to explain to these backers that they didnt "buy" shit? They apparently gave CR the money as a gift to do with as he pleases and should explain this to those poor, confused backers.
This sounds like some cheap ass shit Mcdonalds would pull when you ask for extra nugget sauce- Not a 100 Million company doing this shit to the exact people who are the reason they exist.
I think the only one who clearly has their time line skewed is you no offense, but it has been already beat to death in threads here on this forum, I'll say it again one more time. The original scope of the game was a small niche space sim that Roberts thought fans would be interested in, it was going to be barely bigger than the already playable Arena Commander module. After the kickstarter ended is where it really started to take off and it brought in big money. Roberts had a post on the forums and a video and asked for community feedback on whether the game should have more than just Arena Commander type play, they decided it would be much bigger and that in turn takes more time. This has been said over and over, the original planed launch from the kickstarter were plans for a much smaller game.
So was Elite Dangerous... which we probably don't want to compare with Star Citizen side by side now because it is making Star Citizen's progress looks really embarassing. Elite is already going to release planetary landing in the next few months and Star Citizen doesn't even have a functional game yet.
Don't think scope is a good enough excuse imo.
Interesting also that DS didn't attack Elite Dangerous, or No Man's Sky, only Star Citizen. That man might be a troll but his trolling might not necessarily be incorrect.
Alas though, these are facts you wouldn't know because you aren't a patron, you're just someone sitting back reading other peoples opinions and touting them as your own. Also for the record $6 million isn't a lot of money in markets of today, gaming companies are spending in the hundreds of millions on console titles. Do you really think $6 million would have been enough to be a genre defining space sim mmo? I don't think so. You can't just collect $90+ million and not take your time to make something right.
In regards to planetside: …and then in the following year (2014) we’ll release sort of a planetside module which will be kind of a social module. That’s where you can go into the bar and talk to all the people, buy/sell stuff, upgrade your ship. ” –Chris Roberts, Forbes May 2013 Interview
In regards to planetside again: “ The planet side module releases sometime next year (Chris tells us perhaps March or April) and will include the social aspects of being on a planet. You’ll be able to do things like go to the bar and chat. ” –Chris Roberts MMORPG.com Interview, PAX East 2013
In regards to Squadren 42 and the Persistent Universe: “ [Then] an alpha of the single-player game, and then finally a beta of the persistent universe by the end of the year (2014).
More on SQ42 and the PU: “ Further out is the single player alpha (roughly August 2014) and the alpha for system universe (again, roughly December 2014). ”
In regards to the PU: …and then a beta of the persistent universe by the end of the year (2014), which essentially is bringing all of these things into one holistic piece, and then we’ll go live after the beta which I would anticipate would probably be sometime in early 2015. But essentially from the end of 2014 you should be able to play the full game, it’ll just be beta because there obviously still will be things to tweak and balance, and we’ll try and keep the player base constrained until after we’ve gone through beta, because, you know, it’s not really a beta if you’ve got a million players. ” –Chris Roberts, Forbes May 2013 Interview
More on the PU: [… We] plan to launch the Persistent Universe sometime in 2015 and expect to have all the features we’ve talked about to date implemented and functioning (with the help of the community which will be testing them) over the course of the ensuing year. ” –Ben Lesnick on April 25, 2014
And even more: “ The backers should be able to fly around in a small version of a persistent universe toward the end of next year. ” –Chris Roberts on June 16, 2014
A small example (theres more out there)-
Also, whats your feelings on the fiasco about CIG now charging their customers to downgrade ships? CIG promised ships would work in a certain manner and folks gave their hard earned money for these promises- turns out some of the ships arent exactly living up to the hype , GIG is constantly changing things around and backers are downgrading ships to get something closer to what they were told the ship they were buying would be-
CIG has said this is a 'huge burden" on their automated system and are looking at charging peoiple for 'abusing " the system by attaching a monetary penalty.
-Some of the comments of backers are surprising given the fact that many of theswe folks have been nothing but blind supporters-
Am I really to believe that moving data around in what amounts to an Excel sheet is some kind of cost or liability? I think I know why the word Schmeg is used... I can perform thousands of data manipulations in the blink of an eye with 0 loss of fidelity on my home machine all day long... let alone that this would be an equal issue with upgrading but of course no fee there...
Should we be glad that it is an option or upset that it is has unnecessary penalties? Penalties, mind you, that are only really felt by people who bought bigger pledges.
Of all the lame excuses that I have ever seen, this can easily compete with the worst...
I mean ok, any company can have "reasons" to do such things. Which is milking a little bit more money. While I don't approve this scraps picking, I can understand it. It's their game, their business model, and they are free to do whatever they deem necessary with it.
However, please, have at least a little bit of respect to your customers, and don't come up with this stupid "explanations". It's embarrassing. Sometimes it's better to be silent.
nearly 100 Million dollars and now they're nickle and diming the very people who "gave" them their jobs and funds. Also note how many people use the words "buy my ship" and "when you sold me my ship"- Should CIG make a statement to explain to these backers that they didnt "buy" shit? They apparently gave CR the money as a gift to do with as he pleases and should explain this to those poor, confused backers.
This sounds like some cheap ass shit Mcdonalds would pull when you ask for extra nugget sauce- Not a 100 Million company doing this shit to the exact people who are the reason they exist.
Its cheap.
Its slimey.
So you think that anyone that pays $100 for a ship should be able to just switch to any other ship that's under $100, at any time of their choosing with no penalty allowing them to essentially own every ship under $100 for one price? What about the people who have $1000 dollar ship, should they be able to switch between all the others just because they spent $1k? Do you bother to think of counter arguments before you spew your opinion?
Edit: Also, what they have done is made it to where, if you own a $120 dollar ship, you can pay $5 dollars, keep your original ship, and play a cheaper one of your choosing for the time being. This isn't a very bad system, as it cuts down the balance issues of non timed switches; where players could theoretically use racers and scout ships to quickly find an enemy, then quickly switch to fighters and support ships to take them out.
I think the only one who clearly has their time line skewed is you no offense, but it has been already beat to death in threads here on this forum, I'll say it again one more time. The original scope of the game was a small niche space sim that Roberts thought fans would be interested in, it was going to be barely bigger than the already playable Arena Commander module. After the kickstarter ended is where it really started to take off and it brought in big money. Roberts had a post on the forums and a video and asked for community feedback on whether the game should have more than just Arena Commander type play, they decided it would be much bigger and that in turn takes more time. This has been said over and over, the original planed launch from the kickstarter were plans for a much smaller game.
So was Elite Dangerous... which we probably don't want to compare with Star Citizen side by side now because it is making Star Citizen's progress looks really embarassing. Elite is already going to release planetary landing in the next few months and Star Citizen doesn't even have a functional game yet.
Don't think scope is a good enough excuse imo.
Interesting also that DS didn't attack Elite Dangerous, or No Man's Sky, only Star Citizen. That man might be a troll but his trolling might not necessarily be incorrect.
You're right you can't compare the two, Elite Dangerous has been being worked on since before 2011, it has had much more time to get where it's at. Kickstarter for Star citizen didn't end till 2012, Elite Dangerous already had well over a year of work done before Star Citizen was even counted in. And being someone who's played both Star Citizen modules and Elite Dangerous, I'm putting my money on Star Citizen.
Comments
Nobody is protecting anyone. Again, there are things that we know, like there are 250+ people working at CIG. If we were to take the 250 people and say, they are making $70,000 per year, which is EXTREMEMLY conservative. Then, if you factor in the labor burden (which is anywhere from 50% to over 100% of the employees salary) which includes everything from cost of space each employee occupies, equipment, licensing, etc. at 40%, let's say. the annual burn for CIG is $24.5 million and that excludes any other costs such as marketing, trade shows, etc.
Since we've already seen 3 years pass, the people estimating that they will run out of money in 2017 would be fairly accurate. However, the suggestion that this money is being funnelled into some secret account are ludicrous.
Why don't you follow your own advice and "follow the money". Like seriously, please take 15 or 20 minutes to think about how he could possibly support the number of employees he has, for as long as he has, with the money that they have made. This is what I mean, please stop muddying the American gene pool with your non-sense and actually be logical for a couple minutes out of your life.
Oh!! and if you DO have some logic to inject, please feel free to do so, and explain exactly what your theory is, with supporting evidence that is at least believable or hasn't already been disproven. I'm open for a sensible debate using logic, but I will continue to criticize if you continue to use insane theories that aren't realistic.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
I've read back through all your posts over the past 3 pages (back to when you're calling DS a loon). However, I see zero "facts" at all. I see LOTS of speculation. I see plenty of calling for accountability. I see zero evidence though. I'm not even talking about a smoking gun, I'm talking about any logical thought. I don't see any logical thought that you're basing your arguments on. If it's your contention that these are logical arguments, though, I'll just stop arguing right now since you're obviously way more talented than I am, to be typing while wearing a straight-jacket.
I just gave you conservative numbers that show they are burning $25 million annually. So give me any sort of argument as to how Chris is funnelling this money away from the company, when the money pool is already approaching dry?
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
You might want to revise your estimate based on these numbers:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14839-Letter-From-The-Chairman
"Our internal headcount has gone from five at the end of 2012 to 59 at the end of 2013 to 183 at the end of 2014 and to 255 now." According to a recent vblog one can add approx 50 contract workers to that number in 2015.
I think you based your estimate on the number of employees being 250ish over the last 3 years.
For the current number of employees we have arrived at very similar numbers (in another earlier thread i posted an estimate on the current budget burn rate based on average programmer income).
Have fun
Now why would we possibly think that she is his wife.
Skye Roberts
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm4758613/
LOL they took down the photo of her holding hands with Sandi, oh well.
Feel free to link that post if you've got it. I'm not arguing with you, I'm simply trying to illustrate that all the conspiracy theories surrounding the game are hilarious. The suggestions are just so overly elaborate that it doesn't make any sense at all. Here's another CRAZY idea!! Maybe they're actually going to try to DELIVER the game!!!! It's just insane enough to work!!! We'll trick these people by delivering a fully-functional game and continuing to take their money for years while they enjoy playing our game!!! Muahahahaha!!!! My plan is coming to fruition!! You silly gamers!!!
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
You just seem to be just regurgitating arguments you've seen other places, everything you've complained about in this thread, are things done even by top publicly traded companies all over the world.
Also I agree your kryptonite statement, with the bold and everything is pretty outlandish at best.
Where one post says:
"
it's sort of in alpha. they're selling the client, but basically what you're getting is a game they're still toiling away at. you can also buy [enormously expensive] ships. there used to be - when the kickstarter was running - a way you could also get a sort of insurance on the ships, too. so, really, it's set up as a massive, massive scam.
let's not forget that mister roberts LIED with his kickstarter, too. so, you know, it's sort of legitimate? but kind of not?
[the lie: WE'LL HAVE A TRUE SINGLE PLAYER GAME FOR YOU ALSO!1!! and then about thirty seconds before the kickstarter ended he came out and said, "OH WHOOPS WE WERE KIDDING THAT'S NOT REALLY WHAT WE PROMISED."
am i a little annoyed at the man? yeah. kindaYet fanbois want to defend this? Amazing!
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Warning: the following contains a lot of speculative numbers and assumptions (insert your own and recalculate)
Its also interesting for me to read about the unsustainability of this project. CIG currently has 255 employees. Lets assume that ON AVERAGE every employee costs 6500 $ per month.
http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/computer-programmer/salary
Thats about 1,7 million $ in wages per month. Lets assume CIG spends another half million on contractors and infrastructure (=most of the hardware has already been bought by now). Of the 85 M$ raised for the project quite a bit has been spend already, but in previous years the number of employees was significantly lower. In my guestimate (!) there are 60 M$ ish left. With a spending of 2.2 M$ per month that amounts to about 27 months (= 2 years 3 months) or until November 2017. You can add to that every additional money coming in the next two years ... if its another 11 M$ (and thats an extremely conservative estimate) you get another half a year (until May 2018) covered. For comparison ... in the last two years on the average around 2.5 M$ were added per month through crowdfunding.
I personally expect Squadron 42 to be ready sometime in 2016. I suspect it will sell well. Lets assume 650.000 copies in addition to those who pledged (taken from the example Elite:Dangerous .. shows approx the size of the interested buyer segment above and beyond the initial backers). At 55 $ per game that would be around 36 M$ from sales. Production costs a bit, at some time CIG owners want some profit too, all the CIG eymployess want a bonus for completion ... . Lets say .. another 14 M$ are available for pushing the development of the Persistent Universe forward. Its December 2018 now.
Even with a moderate delay the persistent Universe should launch sometime in 2017. In the meantime some people will buy Part 3 of the SQ42 missions .... gets you into 2019. etc. etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Have fun
Because it's not even accurate!!! There is a single-player. It actually makes me wonder if they're getting SC and ED mixed up. Elite: Dangerous said they would have single player, but didn't deliver. To my knowledge, the single-player is still planned for SC.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Is that real money or in game ships?
He must have run some kind of reliable poll to get a fair read out of what the backers wanted. I will wait for you to put it up. Be back later to see this reliable fair poll going to play my game.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Star Citizen cancelled "meet the devs' this week (a show paid for by subscriber/backer money if memory serves me correctly)
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/5661367/#Comment_5661367
"We're going to take a break from Meet the Devs for a bit while we retool other aspects of our overall video production"
Wow, i thought the video production was top knotch. couldnt be spin? nah.... Couldn't be about suddenly unexpected departure of james Pugh- They would have told us...Yup, retooling the video production. Wonder how long 'a bit' is?
Brandon evans departs CIG today
CIG responds with this gem- EDIT- before I'mcalled out I mistook this for an official CIG response which it wasnt- it was from a fan.
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/286683/less-vitriol-please-more-trust-patience-and-respect-is-needed
"More patience and TRUST is needed"
hahahahahahahahahaha, I think its accountability thats needed becaiuse so far 'trust" hasnt gotten us anywhere- Excepting trusting in the fact there will always be another ship to buy for hundreds of dollars.
And http://www.informationredux.com/index.php/2015/09/28/star-citizen-a-personal-introspection-on-events/
which sums up my feelings on 'trust us and have patience"
With this knowledge, and repeated interviews stating such, it’s not hard to see why backers would believe that this would be possible without a 3-5 year time table. They did not work in game development all their life, they did not come to people asking for money and stating that this could be done in “X” amount of time. This is what they were told, and the believed it.
So to ask for a bit of patience is just laughable. To think that the backers should have “known better” is just insulting. They were going off of what someone, with knowledge of every facet of the game was telling them, and it’s not hard to reasonably assume that they took him at his word.
So this raises the question, either CR was lying every time he stated that this was possible or like so many commentators before him CR doesn’t know how long game development takes either? I don’t believe he set out to mislead anyone, but honestly why continue to state it was doable, if so many were supposed to know it clearly wasn’t? It just shows a level of disconnect from reality, if this is the case, that should be troubling to say the least.
More at a certain internet Warlords twitter-
If I were a betting man I would bet things are going to gedt damn interesting in the next couple months. many twists, turns and surprises for all.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Further more I'm sure CIG knows full well how long it takes to make a game, what people refuse to understand is that people who gave money voted for a larger game, they knew it would take more time. Anything that happened in the kickstarter is irrelevant. The kickstarter only brought in $6 million of the total money they've received, the other $90+ million came in the 2 years after the kickstarter. The game is on track for the money it has taken in, given the time frame of when it received the funds. If you want to really follow the money you might start by learning when they actually got it.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
Alas though, these are facts you wouldn't know because you aren't a patron, you're just someone sitting back reading other peoples opinions and touting them as your own. Also for the record $6 million isn't a lot of money in markets of today, gaming companies are spending in the hundreds of millions on console titles. Do you really think $6 million would have been enough to be a genre defining space sim mmo? I don't think so. You can't just collect $90+ million and not take your time to make something right.
In regards to planetside: …and then in the following year (2014) we’ll release sort of a planetside module which will be kind of a social module. That’s where you can go into the bar and talk to all the people, buy/sell stuff, upgrade your ship. ”
–Chris Roberts, Forbes May 2013 Interview
In regards to planetside again: “ The planet side module releases sometime next year (Chris tells us perhaps March or April) and will include the social aspects of being on a planet. You’ll be able to do things like go to the bar and chat. ”
–Chris Roberts MMORPG.com Interview, PAX East 2013
In regards to Squadren 42 and the Persistent Universe: “ [Then] an alpha of the single-player game, and then finally a beta of the persistent universe by the end of the year (2014).
More on SQ42 and the PU: “ Further out is the single player alpha (roughly August 2014) and the alpha for system universe (again, roughly December 2014). ”
In regards to the PU: …and then a beta of the persistent universe by the end of the year (2014), which essentially is bringing all of these things into one holistic piece, and then we’ll go live after the beta which I would anticipate would probably be sometime in early 2015. But essentially from the end of 2014 you should be able to play the full game, it’ll just be beta because there obviously still will be things to tweak and balance, and we’ll try and keep the player base constrained until after we’ve gone through beta, because, you know, it’s not really a beta if you’ve got a million players. ”
–Chris Roberts, Forbes May 2013 Interview
More on the PU: [… We] plan to launch the Persistent Universe sometime in 2015 and expect to have all the features we’ve talked about to date implemented and functioning (with the help of the community which will be testing them) over the course of the ensuing year. ”
–Ben Lesnick on April 25, 2014
And even more: “ The backers should be able to fly around in a small version of a persistent universe toward the end of next year. ”
–Chris Roberts on June 16, 2014
A small example (theres more out there)-
Also, whats your feelings on the fiasco about CIG now charging their customers to downgrade ships? CIG promised ships would work in a certain manner and folks gave their hard earned money for these promises- turns out some of the ships arent exactly living up to the hype , GIG is constantly changing things around and backers are downgrading ships to get something closer to what they were told the ship they were buying would be-
CIG has said this is a 'huge burden" on their automated system and are looking at charging peoiple for 'abusing " the system by attaching a monetary penalty.
-Some of the comments of backers are surprising given the fact that many of theswe folks have been nothing but blind supporters-
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/286430/downgrades-in-the-new-ccu-system-will-have-fees
Am I really to believe that moving data around in what amounts to an Excel sheet is some kind of cost or liability? I think I know why the word Schmeg is used... I can perform thousands of data manipulations in the blink of an eye with 0 loss of fidelity on my home machine all day long... let alone that this would be an equal issue with upgrading but of course no fee there...
Should we be glad that it is an option or upset that it is has unnecessary penalties? Penalties, mind you, that are only really felt by people who bought bigger pledges.
Ball dropped.
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Wow... Just wow...
Of all the lame excuses that I have ever seen, this can easily compete with the worst...
I mean ok, any company can have "reasons" to do such things. Which is milking a little bit more money. While I don't approve this scraps picking, I can understand it. It's their game, their business model, and they are free to do whatever they deem necessary with it.
However, please, have at least a little bit of respect to your customers, and don't come up with this stupid "explanations". It's embarrassing. Sometimes it's better to be silent.
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70 plus pages and growing...
nearly 100 Million dollars and now they're nickle and diming the very people who "gave" them their jobs and funds. Also note how many people use the words "buy my ship" and "when you sold me my ship"- Should CIG make a statement to explain to these backers that they didnt "buy" shit? They apparently gave CR the money as a gift to do with as he pleases and should explain this to those poor, confused backers.
This sounds like some cheap ass shit Mcdonalds would pull when you ask for extra nugget sauce- Not a 100 Million company doing this shit to the exact people who are the reason they exist.
Its cheap.
Its slimey.
Don't think scope is a good enough excuse imo.
Interesting also that DS didn't attack Elite Dangerous, or No Man's Sky, only Star Citizen. That man might be a troll but his trolling might not necessarily be incorrect.
Edit: Also, what they have done is made it to where, if you own a $120 dollar ship, you can pay $5 dollars, keep your original ship, and play a cheaper one of your choosing for the time being. This isn't a very bad system, as it cuts down the balance issues of non timed switches; where players could theoretically use racers and scout ships to quickly find an enemy, then quickly switch to fighters and support ships to take them out.
You're right you can't compare the two, Elite Dangerous has been being worked on since before 2011, it has had much more time to get where it's at. Kickstarter for Star citizen didn't end till 2012, Elite Dangerous already had well over a year of work done before Star Citizen was even counted in. And being someone who's played both Star Citizen modules and Elite Dangerous, I'm putting my money on Star Citizen.