Interesting. I just watch a video on their dungeons. They said the want them to be like EQ1, MUDs and "most importantly" D&D campaigns. The one they showed they're thinking it will take 4-6 weeks to complete.
That would be about the minimum length we want a dungeon to take to complete.
Someone mad because it's not PVP lol. Fact is you haven't been reading what he has been saying. The game won't be for you, digest and go PVP.
Actually, you made the pvp part up, he didn't say anything about that. What he points at is the "this is the old school game for the hardcore crowd!" and we all know how that went.
Signed up for your newsletter and forums. If your team makes this game, I will buy it and play it. Until then I will follow it.That's the extent of my commitment. Best of luck.
We have zero desire to convince someone to play our game
I like that, I really do. All this crap where marketing specialists pretend to know what "the public" wants ends up with developers making the same shit all over anyway.
That said, even though I appreciate that they're not trying to pull those stunts, stories about going back in time to old games make alarm bells go off for me. Time machines don't exist, old games are old for a reason.
So make it, show it and I'll try it. Then I'll see.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Actually, you made the pvp part up, he didn't say anything about that. What he points at is the "this is the old school game for the hardcore crowd!" and we all know how that went.
Actually, I specifically mentioned it on page 1, believe, and it's one of the FAQ main points: no PvP. We are a PvE-only game.
We have zero desire to convince someone to play our game
I like that, I really do. All this crap where marketing specialists pretend to know what "the public" wants ends up with developers making the same shit all over anyway.
That said, even though I appreciate that they're not trying to pull those stunts, stories about going back in time to old games make alarm bells go off for me. Time machines don't exist, old games are old for a reason.
So make it, show it and I'll try it. Then I'll see.
It's less about going back in time than it is about blending some of the best parts of the old-school experience (required grouping, community-based gameplay where you have to rely on others to get anything done, a return to the days when your reputation mattered, epic quests, dungeons that last weeks to months and provide you with hundreds of hours of gameplay per, downtime and socialization, no mini maps etc.) with modern evolutions of the genre/industry (an out-of-game app that ties into the LFG bulletin-board so that you can roleplay and socialize and start LFG or finding others even while in transit or during lunch hour so that your group is ready to go when you get home even if you need a couple of PUG members, etc.)
There's a reason we aren't playing EQ1 emulators: they are old games. Been there, done that. Some things need to be updated/modernized. Project Gorgon, Pantheon, Revival, Das Tal, and a few others, are all doing their own unique thing, just as we are. Options are good. Vision is great. Evolution the most exciting part to see how everyone will have their own take on the old-school model
Actually, you made the pvp part up, he didn't say anything about that. What he points at is the "this is the old school game for the hardcore crowd!" and we all know how that went.
Actually, I specifically mentioned it on page 1, believe, and it's one of the FAQ main points: no PvP. We are a PvE-only game.
Wasn't really about you but about Savage. He cut the pvp part out of his quote and I missed the tiny letters in the original.
Someone mad because it's not PVP lol. Fact is you haven't been reading what he has been saying. The game won't be for you, digest and go PVP.
Actually, you made the pvp part up, he didn't say anything about that. What he points at is the "this is the old school game for the hardcore crowd!" and we all know how that went.
[mod edit]
Wildstar was made for the masses they wanted big number it's was not made to be a niche game. TSOL is being made for a niche market who will gladly pay a sub for this type of MMO as long as it all works. The devs have stated this already, many mmo's move along nicely without big numbers and just a niche following, surely someone of your intellect (hmmm) should know this, right?
Oh and last i heard Wildstar is still going, yes it's about to be F2P and i bet all those numpty's who were slating the game will be back playing it and making dumb threads on forums like this on how they like the game now lmfao.
Some people want freebies even if a game was perfect they would still want to play it for free but some of us are happy to pay a sub for the right type of game.
Interesting. I just watch a video on their dungeons. They said the want them to be like EQ1, MUDs and "most importantly" D&D campaigns. The one they showed they're thinking it will take 4-6 weeks to complete.
That would be about the minimum length we want a dungeon to take to complete.
How about we get jus tone game that is group based and has no pvp? Everquest is about the only other one I know that fits this and even it has a pvp server.....Just about every single MMO has PVP why do you have to have it in every single game?
The top article on the game's blog has the director saying "we have zero problems telling the F2P babies to fuck off, here’s a tissue, cry yourself a river"
Did he really say that? I don't mind indie devs who think they can get the sub numbers that AAA MMOs can't. But if they start with PR nightmares like this then they are not even worth to be looked at.
I am curious why you would call that a "PR nightmare" ?
There are many... many adult gamers who grew up on Ultima Online, Ashron's Call and Everquest, that simply do not wish to delve into a living game world, riddled with children. His comments are utterly reassuring to adult gamers, that they will face adult game play. Not arcade glitz meant to entice children.
Understand, there are 10 million WoW players who have graduated MMORPG grade school and are looking for more education. To them, any game without Free to Play cry babies, is a great platform to rally around. Ironically, why would anyone care about Renfail's comments, when they can still be playing ArcheAge ..?
I know many people (and entire guilds) who will pay the price to be free from these types of F2P children communities.
The top article on the game's blog has the director saying "we have zero problems telling the F2P babies to fuck off, here’s a tissue, cry yourself a river"
Did he really say that? I don't mind indie devs who think they can get the sub numbers that AAA MMOs can't. But if they start with PR nightmares like this then they are not even worth to be looked at.
I am curious why you would call that a "PR nightmare" ?
There are many... many adult gamers who grew up on Ultima Online, Ashron's Call and Everquest, that simply do not wish to delve into a living game world, riddled with children. His comments are utterly reassuring to adult gamers, that they will face adult game play. Not arcade glitz meant to entice children.
Understand, there are 10 million WoW players who have graduated MMORPG grade school and are looking for more education. To them, any game without Free to Play cry babies, is a great platform to rally around. Ironically, why would anyone care about Renfail's comments, when they can still be playing ArcheAge ..?
I know many people (and entire guilds) who will pay the price to be free from these types of F2P children communities.
Ironically, we've already been approached by a few multi-game guilds who have asked us for bulk discounts if they bring 100+ guild members to the table for pre-ordering the game.
But yes, it seems to us (and the market research as a whole) that there is a healthy community of adults out there who are anti-F2P, who appreciate what we are (and other independent old school developers) are working on, and for us, that's all that matters.
Anything we can do to ensure the f2p whinebabies are blocked, is a win/win in our book
The top article on the game's blog has the director saying "we have zero problems telling the F2P babies to fuck off, here’s a tissue, cry yourself a river"
Did he really say that? I don't mind indie devs who think they can get the sub numbers that AAA MMOs can't. But if they start with PR nightmares like this then they are not even worth to be looked at.
I am curious why you would call that a "PR nightmare" ?
There are many... many adult gamers who grew up on Ultima Online, Ashron's Call and Everquest, that simply do not wish to delve into a living game world, riddled with children. His comments are utterly reassuring to adult gamers, that they will face adult game play. Not arcade glitz meant to entice children.
Understand, there are 10 million WoW players who have graduated MMORPG grade school and are looking for more education. To them, any game without Free to Play cry babies, is a great platform to rally around. Ironically, why would anyone care about Renfail's comments, when they can still be playing ArcheAge ..?
I know many people (and entire guilds) who will pay the price to be free from these types of F2P children communities.
The Baby Bells are coming.
Which I find funny because I've played numerous subscription games and found that communities, on the whole, are toxic and littered with raging assholes. I don't think that it's a cry baby thing, in fact I'd go as far as to say that subscription players are some of the most entitled, whiney players you can possibly find. If you can honestly disagree with that then you must not be playing a subscription game ATM.
For your "education" in MMORPGs I'd first like to point out the number of sbuscription MMOs which have succeeded versus failed, in the past 4 years. So while I love the ideals and I love the attitude of Renfail, I think that they aren't just burning bridges with statements like that, but out-right blowing them up. So it could earn them a niche crowd of seriously-dedicated players, which is what it seems they're going for, or it could paint them into a corner where they simply can't get out of. Once you've OFFICIALLY told all crowds they can "Fuck off", then you've certainly assured yourself as the biggest badass on the block and biggest idiot as well.
The top article on the game's blog has the director saying "we have zero problems telling the F2P babies to fuck off, here’s a tissue, cry yourself a river"
Did he really say that? I don't mind indie devs who think they can get the sub numbers that AAA MMOs can't. But if they start with PR nightmares like this then they are not even worth to be looked at.
I am curious why you would call that a "PR nightmare" ?
There are many... many adult gamers who grew up on Ultima Online, Ashron's Call and Everquest, that simply do not wish to delve into a living game world, riddled with children. His comments are utterly reassuring to adult gamers, that they will face adult game play. Not arcade glitz meant to entice children.
Understand, there are 10 million WoW players who have graduated MMORPG grade school and are looking for more education. To them, any game without Free to Play cry babies, is a great platform to rally around. Ironically, why would anyone care about Renfail's comments, when they can still be playing ArcheAge ..?
I know many people (and entire guilds) who will pay the price to be free from these types of F2P children communities.
The Baby Bells are coming.
Which I find funny because I've played numerous subscription games and found that communities, on the whole, are toxic and littered with raging assholes. I don't think that it's a cry baby thing, in fact I'd go as far as to say that subscription players are some of the most entitled, whiney players you can possibly find. If you can honestly disagree with that then you must not be playing a subscription game ATM.
For your "education" in MMORPGs I'd first like to point out the number of sbuscription MMOs which have succeeded versus failed, in the past 4 years. So while I love the ideals and I love the attitude of Renfail, I think that they aren't just burning bridges with statements like that, but out-right blowing them up. So it could earn them a niche crowd of seriously-dedicated players, which is what it seems they're going for, or it could paint them into a corner where they simply can't get out of. Once you've OFFICIALLY told all crowds they can "Fuck off", then you've certainly assured yourself as the biggest badass on the block and biggest idiot as well.
Read my post history, you will clearly see what I know.
Then understand that PAYING customers are indeed entitled with valid opinions & concerns. Consequently it is the invalid opinions of F2P cry babies that do not matter, that do not represent anything but hot air. I know guilds of thousands of people who are in stasis and taking year long breaks from gaming, because there is no world worth their time, or money.
Again, you are nearsighted and referencing the last 4 years, not that last 18 years. Are you really trying to defend 16 year old kids who don't have a job and play free games to p0wn..?
Do understand that price is not an issue for adults, only children. So at the end of the day, it comes down to do you like the game world and the community within? There is no bridge burning going on, only little egos getting hurt. Why should a game developer worry about some little kid's bruised ego?
If you look up to adults as the biggest badasses, then it shows where you are looking from.
The top article on the game's blog has the director saying "we have zero problems telling the F2P babies to fuck off, here’s a tissue, cry yourself a river"
Did he really say that? I don't mind indie devs who think they can get the sub numbers that AAA MMOs can't. But if they start with PR nightmares like this then they are not even worth to be looked at.
I am curious why you would call that a "PR nightmare" ?
There are many... many adult gamers who grew up on Ultima Online, Ashron's Call and Everquest, that simply do not wish to delve into a living game world, riddled with children. His comments are utterly reassuring to adult gamers, that they will face adult game play. Not arcade glitz meant to entice children.
Understand, there are 10 million WoW players who have graduated MMORPG grade school and are looking for more education. To them, any game without Free to Play cry babies, is a great platform to rally around. Ironically, why would anyone care about Renfail's comments, when they can still be playing ArcheAge ..?
I know many people (and entire guilds) who will pay the price to be free from these types of F2P children communities.
The Baby Bells are coming.
Which I find funny because I've played numerous subscription games and found that communities, on the whole, are toxic and littered with raging assholes. I don't think that it's a cry baby thing, in fact I'd go as far as to say that subscription players are some of the most entitled, whiney players you can possibly find. If you can honestly disagree with that then you must not be playing a subscription game ATM.
For your "education" in MMORPGs I'd first like to point out the number of sbuscription MMOs which have succeeded versus failed, in the past 4 years. So while I love the ideals and I love the attitude of Renfail, I think that they aren't just burning bridges with statements like that, but out-right blowing them up. So it could earn them a niche crowd of seriously-dedicated players, which is what it seems they're going for, or it could paint them into a corner where they simply can't get out of. Once you've OFFICIALLY told all crowds they can "Fuck off", then you've certainly assured yourself as the biggest badass on the block and biggest idiot as well.
Read my post history, you will clearly see what I know.
Then understand that PAYING customers are indeed entitled with valid opinions & concerns. Consequently it is the invalid opinions of F2P cry babies that do not matter, that do not represent anything but hot air. I know guilds of thousands of people who are in stasis and taking year long breaks from gaming, because there is no world worth their time, or money.
Again, you are nearsighted and referencing the last 4 years, not that last 18 years. Are you really trying to defend 16 year old kids who don't have a job and play free games to p0wn..?
Do understand that price is not an issue for adults, only children. So at the end of the day, it comes down to do you like the game world and the community within? There is no bridge burning going on, only little egos getting hurt. Why should a game developer worry about some little kid's bruised ego?
If you look up to adults as the biggest badasses, then it shows where you are looking from.
The Baby Bells are coming!
Ok, looking over the past 18 years, feel free to enlighten me on which MMORPG, that is P2P, is increasing it's revenues.
Have fun.
Oh, and as far as "knowing people", yes I also know people. In fact, I have 100,000 friends on Facebook, 99,990 are still pending, but I still have 100,000 friends.
I think this game is off to a great start, here are some other choice quotes from the director:
"My favorite argument from the 99% instant gratification generation of hipster gamers, is that “time has shown, over and over, that a subscription model isn’t the way to go."
"everything that is currently being designed consists of single-player, on-the-rails, spoon-fed content that you can log in and play for five minutes, then log out"
"gaming enthusiasts who are more than willing to pay a monthly fee to access a game world where the pay-to-win children and their entitlement complexes are completely nonexistent"
"the modern day generation of players are the 99% entitlement brats who think they deserve a first place medal simply for existing, because mommy and daddy have told them since they were little children that they are the special flower of the universe"
One of the benefits of running my own show is that I don't have to filter, and I see no reason to tip-toe around the issues. I just say it like it is, and the whiny little entitlement brats can run home crying to mommy.
We're developing a game for adults. All of our development team still pay monthly subs for most of the games we play (even the ones that have f2p options, like SWTOR), and that's what we're developing for others to enjoy: a fully-fleshed game with an old-school subscription just as much as old-school content.
You are being a bit over the top aggressive/abrasive. You are making a point of calling out, and insulting people, for no apparent reason.
It is one thing if people were to post a whine/complaint about your game not being F2P, and/or allowing logging for short periods to play. However, that hasn't happened (yet), and there is no indication that anyone (in this thread so far) has asked for anything like this. You are effectively insulting the people that have read this thread, to find out about your game, either directly (if they were going to ask about this) ir indirectly (by implying that they were going to ask about this). Why randomly throw out insults/derogatory comments when they are not needed?
You have stated that you are making a game for adults... but you don't seem to be giving your readers the respect that an adult would expect.
The top article on the game's blog has the director saying "we have zero problems telling the F2P babies to fuck off, here’s a tissue, cry yourself a river"
Did he really say that? I don't mind indie devs who think they can get the sub numbers that AAA MMOs can't. But if they start with PR nightmares like this then they are not even worth to be looked at.
I am curious why you would call that a "PR nightmare" ?
There are many... many adult gamers who grew up on Ultima Online, Ashron's Call and Everquest, that simply do not wish to delve into a living game world, riddled with children. His comments are utterly reassuring to adult gamers, that they will face adult game play. Not arcade glitz meant to entice children.
Understand, there are 10 million WoW players who have graduated MMORPG grade school and are looking for more education. To them, any game without Free to Play cry babies, is a great platform to rally around. Ironically, why would anyone care about Renfail's comments, when they can still be playing ArcheAge ..?
I know many people (and entire guilds) who will pay the price to be free from these types of F2P children communities.
The Baby Bells are coming.
Which I find funny because I've played numerous subscription games and found that communities, on the whole, are toxic and littered with raging assholes. I don't think that it's a cry baby thing, in fact I'd go as far as to say that subscription players are some of the most entitled, whiney players you can possibly find. If you can honestly disagree with that then you must not be playing a subscription game ATM.
For your "education" in MMORPGs I'd first like to point out the number of sbuscription MMOs which have succeeded versus failed, in the past 4 years. So while I love the ideals and I love the attitude of Renfail, I think that they aren't just burning bridges with statements like that, but out-right blowing them up. So it could earn them a niche crowd of seriously-dedicated players, which is what it seems they're going for, or it could paint them into a corner where they simply can't get out of. Once you've OFFICIALLY told all crowds they can "Fuck off", then you've certainly assured yourself as the biggest badass on the block and biggest idiot as well.
Read my post history, you will clearly see what I know.
Then understand that PAYING customers are indeed entitled with valid opinions & concerns. Consequently it is the invalid opinions of F2P cry babies that do not matter, that do not represent anything but hot air. I know guilds of thousands of people who are in stasis and taking year long breaks from gaming, because there is no world worth their time, or money.
Again, you are nearsighted and referencing the last 4 years, not that last 18 years. Are you really trying to defend 16 year old kids who don't have a job and play free games to p0wn..?
Do understand that price is not an issue for adults, only children. So at the end of the day, it comes down to do you like the game world and the community within? There is no bridge burning going on, only little egos getting hurt. Why should a game developer worry about some little kid's bruised ego?
If you look up to adults as the biggest badasses, then it shows where you are looking from.
The Baby Bells are coming!
Ok, looking over the past 18 years, feel free to enlighten me on which MMORPG, that is P2P, is increasing it's revenues.
Have fun.
Oh, and as far as "knowing people", yes I also know people. In fact, I have 100,000 friends on Facebook, 99,990 are still pending, but I still have 100,000 friends.
Nobody said anything about revenues.
MMORPG are niche and don't seek high revenues, they seek to make awesome stories & worlds to digitally live in and explore. Seems like you are confusing MMOs & MMORPGs and do not understand that children like arcade style games that have no lasting power, so these Developers need increased revenues over a few short years to recoup investment and make profit, before they move to the next free game and go fishing.
A player does not care how much profit the developer makes, only that the game they are paying for is awesome.
Further more, what exactly does "increased revenues" mean to you? What argument are you trying to make?
McDonalds has high revenues, but even a 13 year old can make a better hamburger, they just don't have a kitchen to serve millions of people. Are you arguing against paying for what you want?
It was once my job to know these things, so I have made it important to meet with and speak with these people. I do not have a facebook account, I am not that needy.
I think this game is off to a great start, here are some other choice quotes from the director:
"My favorite argument from the 99% instant gratification generation of hipster gamers, is that “time has shown, over and over, that a subscription model isn’t the way to go."
"everything that is currently being designed consists of single-player, on-the-rails, spoon-fed content that you can log in and play for five minutes, then log out"
"gaming enthusiasts who are more than willing to pay a monthly fee to access a game world where the pay-to-win children and their entitlement complexes are completely nonexistent"
"the modern day generation of players are the 99% entitlement brats who think they deserve a first place medal simply for existing, because mommy and daddy have told them since they were little children that they are the special flower of the universe"
One of the benefits of running my own show is that I don't have to filter, and I see no reason to tip-toe around the issues. I just say it like it is, and the whiny little entitlement brats can run home crying to mommy.
We're developing a game for adults. All of our development team still pay monthly subs for most of the games we play (even the ones that have f2p options, like SWTOR), and that's what we're developing for others to enjoy: a fully-fleshed game with an old-school subscription just as much as old-school content.
You are being a bit over the top aggressive/abrasive. You are making a point of calling out, and insulting people, for no apparent reason.
It is one thing if people were to post a whine/complaint about your game not being F2P, and/or allowing logging for short periods to play. However, that hasn't happened (yet), and there is no indication that anyone (in this thread so far) has asked for anything like this. You are effectively insulting the people that have read this thread, to find out about your game, either directly (if they were going to ask about this) ir indirectly (by implying that they were going to ask about this). Why randomly throw out insults/derogatory comments when they are not needed?
You have stated that you are making a game for adults... but you don't seem to be giving your readers the respect that an adult would expect.
Adults don't need respect to study or research something. It seems like you are offended, because info is not handed to you on a platter and because of that, you need to take time to educate yourself on His topic? And that offends you?
Many adult understand children have learning deficiencies. That is why they go to 12 years of school to learn how to do things for themselves and live in the real world. Coddling a gamer is not what this discussion is about. He already told those who are needy to "fuck off". That his game is about those who already know what they want.
The top article on the game's blog has the director saying "we have zero problems telling the F2P babies to fuck off, here’s a tissue, cry yourself a river"
Did he really say that? I don't mind indie devs who think they can get the sub numbers that AAA MMOs can't. But if they start with PR nightmares like this then they are not even worth to be looked at.
I am curious why you would call that a "PR nightmare" ?
There are many... many adult gamers who grew up on Ultima Online, Ashron's Call and Everquest, that simply do not wish to delve into a living game world, riddled with children. His comments are utterly reassuring to adult gamers, that they will face adult game play. Not arcade glitz meant to entice children.
Understand, there are 10 million WoW players who have graduated MMORPG grade school and are looking for more education. To them, any game without Free to Play cry babies, is a great platform to rally around. Ironically, why would anyone care about Renfail's comments, when they can still be playing ArcheAge ..?
I know many people (and entire guilds) who will pay the price to be free from these types of F2P children communities.
The Baby Bells are coming.
Which I find funny because I've played numerous subscription games and found that communities, on the whole, are toxic and littered with raging assholes. I don't think that it's a cry baby thing, in fact I'd go as far as to say that subscription players are some of the most entitled, whiney players you can possibly find. If you can honestly disagree with that then you must not be playing a subscription game ATM.
For your "education" in MMORPGs I'd first like to point out the number of sbuscription MMOs which have succeeded versus failed, in the past 4 years. So while I love the ideals and I love the attitude of Renfail, I think that they aren't just burning bridges with statements like that, but out-right blowing them up. So it could earn them a niche crowd of seriously-dedicated players, which is what it seems they're going for, or it could paint them into a corner where they simply can't get out of. Once you've OFFICIALLY told all crowds they can "Fuck off", then you've certainly assured yourself as the biggest badass on the block and biggest idiot as well.
Read my post history, you will clearly see what I know.
Then understand that PAYING customers are indeed entitled with valid opinions & concerns. Consequently it is the invalid opinions of F2P cry babies that do not matter, that do not represent anything but hot air. I know guilds of thousands of people who are in stasis and taking year long breaks from gaming, because there is no world worth their time, or money.
Again, you are nearsighted and referencing the last 4 years, not that last 18 years. Are you really trying to defend 16 year old kids who don't have a job and play free games to p0wn..?
Do understand that price is not an issue for adults, only children. So at the end of the day, it comes down to do you like the game world and the community within? There is no bridge burning going on, only little egos getting hurt. Why should a game developer worry about some little kid's bruised ego?
If you look up to adults as the biggest badasses, then it shows where you are looking from.
The Baby Bells are coming!
Ok, looking over the past 18 years, feel free to enlighten me on which MMORPG, that is P2P, is increasing it's revenues.
Have fun.
Oh, and as far as "knowing people", yes I also know people. In fact, I have 100,000 friends on Facebook, 99,990 are still pending, but I still have 100,000 friends.
Nobody said anything about revenues.
MMORPG are niche and don't seek high revenues, they seek to make awesome stories & worlds to digitally live in and explore. Seems like you are confusing MMOs & MMORPGs and do not understand that children like arcade style games that have no lasting power, so these Developers need increased revenues over a few short years to recoup investment and make profit, before they move to the next free game and go fishing.
A player does not care how much profit the developer makes, only that the game they are paying for is awesome.
Further more, what exactly does "increased revenues" mean to you? What argument are you trying to make?
McDonalds has high revenues, but even a 13 year old can make a better hamburger, they just don't have a kitchen to serve millions of people. Are you arguing against paying for what you want?
It was once my job to know these things, so I have made it important to meet with and speak with these people. I do not have a facebook account, I am not that needy.
Since it was your job to know this stuff, then I'm sure that you have plenty of measurable data and demographics that are reliable, so feel free to point out the data suggesting that a significantly higher percentage of people playing P2P vs F2P are adults. In fact, I see much more immature chat in my P2P games than my F2P.
MMOs still see revenues. So if revenues are diminishing across the board, and you are shooting for an extremely niche demographic, not JUST the MMORPG market, but 1% of that niche, then you need to capture more and more of that market to be successful. But I don't need to explain that to you, because you know, because it's your job to know.
Adults don't need respect to study or research something. It seems like you are offended, because info is not handed to you on a platter and because of that, you need to take time to educate yourself on His topic? And that offends you?
Many adult understand children have learning deficiencies. That is why they go to 12 years of school to learn how to do things for themselves and live in the real world. Coddling a gamer is not what this discussion is about. He already told those who are needy to "fuck off". That his game is about those who already know what they want.
How can you argue against that?
I am not particularly offended. This is the internet. This is a public forum. This is a series of posts where someone feels strongly about something. Nothing that unusual here.
However, as a company representative, presenting his viewpoint to the public, this seems a bit strong... for no apparent reason. I can totally understand some of his feelings, but I am confused about who the intended audience is.
I am not particularly offended. This is the internet. This is a public forum. This is a series of posts where someone feels strongly about something. Nothing that unusual here.
However, as a company representative, presenting his viewpoint to the public, this seems a bit strong... for no apparent reason. I can totally understand some of his feelings, but I am confused about who the intended audience is.
The intended audience was for our website, not for here; however, during the course of this conversation, it was brought up by a couple of posters. I actually didn't even have an account here until two days ago when this thread was started on our game (check the posting count + dates/etc.) after Bill reached out to me and did an interview on us this past Monday (for a forthcoming state-of-the-game-development piece).
When it's brought up, I'll address it, but mostly I'm just here to talk about our game and answer questions as they crop up. The anti-f2p comments being quoted are from our website, not from here, persay, except as I've commented via replies.
How about we get jus tone game that is group based and has no pvp? Everquest is about the only other one I know that fits this and even it has a pvp server.....Just about every single MMO has PVP why do you have to have it in every single game?
And that's exactly why we decided at the very beginning that we were taking a very strict no PvP/pure PvE stance. Plenty of those out there, plenty in developmet, but very few purely PvE games out there.
Comments
What he points at is the "this is the old school game for the hardcore crowd!" and we all know how that went.
I like that, I really do. All this crap where marketing specialists pretend to know what "the public" wants ends up with developers making the same shit all over anyway.
That said, even though I appreciate that they're not trying to pull those stunts, stories about going back in time to old games make alarm bells go off for me.
Time machines don't exist, old games are old for a reason.
So make it, show it and I'll try it. Then I'll see.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
It's less about going back in time than it is about blending some of the best parts of the old-school experience (required grouping, community-based gameplay where you have to rely on others to get anything done, a return to the days when your reputation mattered, epic quests, dungeons that last weeks to months and provide you with hundreds of hours of gameplay per, downtime and socialization, no mini maps etc.) with modern evolutions of the genre/industry (an out-of-game app that ties into the LFG bulletin-board so that you can roleplay and socialize and start LFG or finding others even while in transit or during lunch hour so that your group is ready to go when you get home even if you need a couple of PUG members, etc.)
There's a reason we aren't playing EQ1 emulators: they are old games. Been there, done that. Some things need to be updated/modernized. Project Gorgon, Pantheon, Revival, Das Tal, and a few others, are all doing their own unique thing, just as we are. Options are good. Vision is great. Evolution the most exciting part to see how everyone will have their own take on the old-school model
Wildstar was made for the masses they wanted big number it's was not made to be a niche game. TSOL is being made for a niche market who will gladly pay a sub for this type of MMO as long as it all works. The devs have stated this already, many mmo's move along nicely without big numbers and just a niche following, surely someone of your intellect (hmmm) should know this, right?
Oh and last i heard Wildstar is still going, yes it's about to be F2P and i bet all those numpty's who were slating the game will be back playing it and making dumb threads on forums like this on how they like the game now lmfao.
Some people want freebies even if a game was perfect they would still want to play it for free but some of us are happy to pay a sub for the right type of game.
Your turn...
I am curious why you would call that a "PR nightmare" ?
There are many... many adult gamers who grew up on Ultima Online, Ashron's Call and Everquest, that simply do not wish to delve into a living game world, riddled with children. His comments are utterly reassuring to adult gamers, that they will face adult game play. Not arcade glitz meant to entice children.
Understand, there are 10 million WoW players who have graduated MMORPG grade school and are looking for more education. To them, any game without Free to Play cry babies, is a great platform to rally around. Ironically, why would anyone care about Renfail's comments, when they can still be playing ArcheAge ..?
I know many people (and entire guilds) who will pay the price to be free from these types of F2P children communities.
The Baby Bells are coming.
But yes, it seems to us (and the market research as a whole) that there is a healthy community of adults out there who are anti-F2P, who appreciate what we are (and other independent old school developers) are working on, and for us, that's all that matters.
Anything we can do to ensure the f2p whinebabies are blocked, is a win/win in our book
For your "education" in MMORPGs I'd first like to point out the number of sbuscription MMOs which have succeeded versus failed, in the past 4 years. So while I love the ideals and I love the attitude of Renfail, I think that they aren't just burning bridges with statements like that, but out-right blowing them up. So it could earn them a niche crowd of seriously-dedicated players, which is what it seems they're going for, or it could paint them into a corner where they simply can't get out of. Once you've OFFICIALLY told all crowds they can "Fuck off", then you've certainly assured yourself as the biggest badass on the block and biggest idiot as well.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Read my post history, you will clearly see what I know.
Then understand that PAYING customers are indeed entitled with valid opinions & concerns. Consequently it is the invalid opinions of F2P cry babies that do not matter, that do not represent anything but hot air. I know guilds of thousands of people who are in stasis and taking year long breaks from gaming, because there is no world worth their time, or money.
Again, you are nearsighted and referencing the last 4 years, not that last 18 years. Are you really trying to defend 16 year old kids who don't have a job and play free games to p0wn..?
Do understand that price is not an issue for adults, only children. So at the end of the day, it comes down to do you like the game world and the community within? There is no bridge burning going on, only little egos getting hurt. Why should a game developer worry about some little kid's bruised ego?
If you look up to adults as the biggest badasses, then it shows where you are looking from.
The Baby Bells are coming!
Have fun.
Oh, and as far as "knowing people", yes I also know people. In fact, I have 100,000 friends on Facebook, 99,990 are still pending, but I still have 100,000 friends.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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You are being a bit over the top aggressive/abrasive. You are making a point of calling out, and insulting people, for no apparent reason.
It is one thing if people were to post a whine/complaint about your game not being F2P, and/or allowing logging for short periods to play. However, that hasn't happened (yet), and there is no indication that anyone (in this thread so far) has asked for anything like this. You are effectively insulting the people that have read this thread, to find out about your game, either directly (if they were going to ask about this) ir indirectly (by implying that they were going to ask about this). Why randomly throw out insults/derogatory comments when they are not needed?
You have stated that you are making a game for adults... but you don't seem to be giving your readers the respect that an adult would expect.
Nobody said anything about revenues.
MMORPG are niche and don't seek high revenues, they seek to make awesome stories & worlds to digitally live in and explore. Seems like you are confusing MMOs & MMORPGs and do not understand that children like arcade style games that have no lasting power, so these Developers need increased revenues over a few short years to recoup investment and make profit, before they move to the next free game and go fishing.
A player does not care how much profit the developer makes, only that the game they are paying for is awesome.
Further more, what exactly does "increased revenues" mean to you? What argument are you trying to make?
McDonalds has high revenues, but even a 13 year old can make a better hamburger, they just don't have a kitchen to serve millions of people. Are you arguing against paying for what you want?
It was once my job to know these things, so I have made it important to meet with and speak with these people. I do not have a facebook account, I am not that needy.
Many adult understand children have learning deficiencies. That is why they go to 12 years of school to learn how to do things for themselves and live in the real world. Coddling a gamer is not what this discussion is about. He already told those who are needy to "fuck off". That his game is about those who already know what they want.
How can you argue against that?
Since it was your job to know this stuff, then I'm sure that you have plenty of measurable data and demographics that are reliable, so feel free to point out the data suggesting that a significantly higher percentage of people playing P2P vs F2P are adults. In fact, I see much more immature chat in my P2P games than my F2P.
MMOs still see revenues. So if revenues are diminishing across the board, and you are shooting for an extremely niche demographic, not JUST the MMORPG market, but 1% of that niche, then you need to capture more and more of that market to be successful. But I don't need to explain that to you, because you know, because it's your job to know.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/327283/wow-players-age/
Have fun
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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However, as a company representative, presenting his viewpoint to the public, this seems a bit strong... for no apparent reason. I can totally understand some of his feelings, but I am confused about who the intended audience is.
When it's brought up, I'll address it, but mostly I'm just here to talk about our game and answer questions as they crop up. The anti-f2p comments being quoted are from our website, not from here, persay, except as I've commented via replies.