I like the sound of this, and I like that you are being very open about your plans from day 1 and making it clear you wont pander to other peoples visions.
If I can make one small suggestion though, just be careful walking that line, while I find the blunt honesty refreshing the corporate world we gamers inhabit, you some of the responses seemed to be pushing for a conflict that was not there.
Relax a little bit, like you said, the vision will sell its self if its good enough and the execution is good, so dont worry about having to fire back at people. For a game which is apparently 2 years from launch, it already looks good and sounds really promising so I hope that an mmo will finally have a proper Bard Support for me to play!
A game with these ideas is one I have wanted for a while, and I will be keeping an eye out for early access founder packs etc when there is a bit more to see.
Good luck guys, and remember, you dont need to impress us with words, most of us are immune to them at this point, but dont go looking for internet fights either.
I like the sound of this, and I like that you are being very open about your plans from day 1 and making it clear you wont pander to other peoples visions.
If I can make one small suggestion though, just be careful walking that line, while I find the blunt honesty refreshing the corporate world we gamers inhabit, you some of the responses seemed to be pushing for a conflict that was not there.
Relax a little bit, like you said, the vision will sell its self if its good enough and the execution is good, so dont worry about having to fire back at people. For a game which is apparently 2 years from launch, it already looks good and sounds really promising so I hope that an mmo will finally have a proper Bard Support for me to play!
A game with these ideas is one I have wanted for a while, and I will be keeping an eye out for early access founder packs etc when there is a bit more to see.
Good luck guys, and remember, you dont need to impress us with words, most of us are immune to them at this point, but dont go looking for internet fights either.
I like the sound of this, and I like that you are being very open about your plans from day 1 and making it clear you wont pander to other peoples visions.
For a game which is apparently 2 years from launch, it already looks good and sounds really promising so I hope that an mmo will finally have a proper Bard Support for me to play!
A game with these ideas is one I have wanted for a while, and I will be keeping an eye out for early access founder packs etc when there is a bit more to see.
Bards indeed play a huge part in what we are doing, as do all support classes. Utility is a major aspect of the game, especially in the early months of Volume I as players works their way towards Relic gear and earning magical abilities. Giovanni has already designed several dozen bard-specific abilities that are designed for the musically / dance inclined.
Early Access is just around the corner via pre-orders, and we've got plenty of tiers you'll be able to choose from. We've got our Indiegogo folks joining us here in a few weeks, and everyone else will be able to start joining us shortly afterwards as we finish up the final testing of our alpha servers moving them over from pre-alpha. Stay tuned on that regard
Transparency is vital to our ongoing mission, so we're doing what we can to make sure there are no illusions.
Your experiences with "chat" means nothing. It could just be the shard you are on, the zone you are in, or the actual game you are playing, even the year you played.
My data is all of those things, all at once.
Additionally, "chat" means very little to this discussion because even paying adults can act like children. This is about adult game play and earning your accolades within. Also, I don't think you are aware that ADULTS pay for most every MMORPG. Because even if it is a child playing, it is an adult who is paying. Children don't have incomes or credit cards.
Your argument is pointless, "FREE" screams at the adolescent mind.
So all these children pool into a game, then try to sort their egos out and use Mommies CC to feel better about THEMSELVES. Where as an adult plays these games for their adventure, challenge and roleplaying. To play a role within the community. Not suggesting adults don't have egos, but they recognize a level playing field. And often times are ashamed of playing alongside children who don't have disposable income, & have to listen to this children complain about items, or money.
It would be pointless for me to play a FREE game. I could easily spend $500/month on a game like ArcheAge, or even spend $500 for my guildees and friends so that the people who roam with me are uber too. But I also know this before playing. So what would be the point of even doing it. There is no challenge.. and I myself have no reason to impress children.
Fragile weak minded people with my income, are the ones who fuel FREE TO PLAY, because they wish to be uber among children. These people are called whales. They NEED that feeling of power and spend $$$ to get it, because the ego is a powerful thing. The thousands of other free loaders do not matter the these developers (they have no voice), they are just there to fuel the weak-minded, to spend more. That is the psychology of F2P.
Nobody here is talking about MMOs, nor revenues (just you). You have to frame your mind on MMORPGs over the last 18 years. EQ & WoW are still going.. nearly everything else has allowed children to take over, or have catered to them after these Developers core game elements where shunned by the paying adults. Thus, many games go free, because it is the best way to stay afloat. It is not the best way to build a game, just the best way to earn an income, with the least amount of effort.
All developers will tell you this^
I happen to love Renfail's comments, it is refreshing that he is not catering to the masses of free loaders. It seems those people are offended because they won't be able to play his game, because they deem themselves unworthy. He isn't telling them personally to "Fuck off", only those who place themselves in the demographic that he is telling to FO.
You can play his game if it is ever released. Nothing is stopping you, other than yourself.
I have played a significant number of subscription MMOs and I have also played an even more significant number of F2P MMOs. I still play both.
The fact that you believe that my experiences with Chat are somehow localized to a single shard in a single game is actually amusing and speaks to your actual INEXPERIENCE in MMORPGs. Maybe you're thinking of the "bad old days" when communities were actually helpful and fun to play in. However, back in those days, the core gamer was young. The demographics, really, haven't changed.
Then you go on to say that adults can act as bad as children, which is basically what I'm trying to say in the first place!!!!
Secondly, your completely legitimate assertion that free screams to the adolescent mind is another hilarious anecdote that's entirely unfounded. In reality, the "free lunch" is something that's been around forEVER!!! In fact, the notion that "there is no such thing as a free lunch" has been documented all the way back to the 1930s. This is nothing new, and it's not marketing that is aimed at kids. You're right, they don't have money. Mom and Dad have money. It's the same way that you'll see people with these "free" enter-to-win contests. You need to be 18, though. Yeah!! Free car!!! Then you end up getting phone calls from some guy trying to sell you a freezer full of meat for the next 6 months. I can assure you that, while game companies certainly spend time and money marketing to youth, the primary market of F2P is NOT youth, it's middle-aged players. Players with money. That's who the whales are. There may be anomalous cases of kids spending thousands in a game, but the majority of those cases are middle-aged players.
Oh, and all developers will not tell you this. Actually, everything that you've said is completely contradictory to what developers will tell you. It's doom and gloom and I'm really hoping that people don't take what you say seriously, not that anyone actually would. Again, you sound like a crazy preacher sitting on the side of the street yelling at cars as they go past.
Ummmm, yeah, and I might very well play it. Oh, and I also have 4 kids who I might let play it just to shift that demographic.
For the record, I was simply explaining to you how Renfail's comments could be considered a PR Nightmare, since that concept or seeing how it could create a problem seemed foreign to you. However, our conversation has cleared up a lot of those initial questions.
I happen to love Renfail's comments, it is refreshing that he is not catering to the masses of free loaders. It seems those people are offended because they won't be able to play his game, because they deem themselves unworthy. He isn't telling them personally to "Fuck off", only those who place themselves in the demographic that he is telling to FO.
You can play his game if it is ever released. Nothing is stopping you, other than yourself.
In 16 months of getting from there to here, we've got an overwhelmingly satisfied community and no one has been offended by us telling the crybaby freeloaders to take a hike. Until someone brought it up here on the mmorpg.com forums. We aren't worried. It's a handful of vocal forum trolls who make the same loud shrilling in every thread they post on.
It goes with the territory. As our visibility increases, there's going to be more trolls coming out of the woodwork looking to stir up trouble and make loud, shrilling claims about "doom and gloom" and the like, and we'll respond the same way we have been since day one.
Here's a tissue, and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Meanwhile, the overwhelming majority who love what we are doing, and what we are developing...here's a bag of goodies and a bottle of wine, it's time to paaaarrttyyyy.
For a game which is apparently 2 years from launch, it already looks good and sounds really promising so I hope that an mmo will finally have a proper Bard Support for me to play!
Also, on a bard note: we've got more than just bards in mind There's a whole line of skills for dancers/singers/performers that ranges from conversation abilities to things you can use in combat for crowd control or combat damage, depending on those those same abilities are used.
We are confident that bard lovers are going to be blown away by what they'll be able to bring to the table in our game, in terms of support + style + customization.
On a side note, I've been really enjoying the way they have been doing in Pillars of Creation. I've finally had some free time the past few weeks and I've been digging in to that game after months of having it available and never having time.
I like the sound of this, and I like that you are being very open about your plans from day 1 and making it clear you wont pander to other peoples visions.
For a game which is apparently 2 years from launch, it already looks good and sounds really promising so I hope that an mmo will finally have a proper Bard Support for me to play!
A game with these ideas is one I have wanted for a while, and I will be keeping an eye out for early access founder packs etc when there is a bit more to see.
Bards indeed play a huge part in what we are doing, as do all support classes. Utility is a major aspect of the game, especially in the early months of Volume I as players works their way towards Relic gear and earning magical abilities. Giovanni has already designed several dozen bard-specific abilities that are designed for the musically / dance inclined.
Early Access is just around the corner via pre-orders, and we've got plenty of tiers you'll be able to choose from. We've got our Indiegogo folks joining us here in a few weeks, and everyone else will be able to start joining us shortly afterwards as we finish up the final testing of our alpha servers moving them over from pre-alpha. Stay tuned on that regard
Transparency is vital to our ongoing mission, so we're doing what we can to make sure there are no illusions.
This video sums up my response to what I have read here and in other places today
I happen to love Renfail's comments, it is refreshing that he is not catering to the masses of free loaders. It seems those people are offended because they won't be able to play his game, because they deem themselves unworthy. He isn't telling them personally to "Fuck off", only those who place themselves in the demographic that he is telling to FO.
You can play his game if it is ever released. Nothing is stopping you, other than yourself.
In 16 months of getting from there to here, we've got an overwhelmingly satisfied community and no one has been offended by us telling the crybaby freeloaders to take a hike. Until someone brought it up here on the mmorpg.com forums. We aren't worried. It's a handful of vocal forum trolls who make the same loud shrilling in every thread they post on.
It goes with the territory. As our visibility increases, there's going to be more trolls coming out of the woodwork looking to stir up trouble and make loud, shrilling claims about "doom and gloom" and the like, and we'll respond the same way we have been since day one.
Here's a tissue, and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Meanwhile, the overwhelming majority who love what we are doing, and what we are developing...here's a bag of goodies and a bottle of wine, it's time to paaaarrttyyyy.
Sure, but ignorance will get you nowhere. Being a self-proclaimed expert in something for which you have limited/no experience, nor does your team, is about as smart a business move as claiming to be bigger than WoW.
It's fine to have a niche, and it's awesome that you chose to come here and field questions from people who have an interest in the genre, but you may want to take some pointers from other indie guys, like @JC-Smith ; or @Logrus_CS on how to be humble at the same time. There's a wasteland filled with game companies who were "overwhelmingly satisfied" with their communities. I'm certain you will definitely appeal to your families and the hundreds of people who will come to play. Remember, you haven't even been fed to the vultures yet, so don't brag how your skin is barely scratched.
We're more than humble...with the people who are in our target market and who are within our wheelhouse of target audience. For the trolls and whiners, again....tissue + door + have fun elsewhere.
Meanwhile, we'll cater to our friends, families, and the few hundred folks we have so far with whom we are building a loyal fanbase. It works just fine for us.
On a side note, for interested parties, I'll be on Twitch tonight going over the latest short story on the site, talking about some of the lore going into the upcoming Saturday night roleplay groups, and also fielding questions from the storyline/lore side of things:
We're more than humble...with the people who are in our target market and who are within our wheelhouse of target audience. For the trolls and whiners, again....tissue + door + have fun elsewhere.
Meanwhile, we'll cater to our friends, families, and the few hundred folks we have so far with whom we are building a loyal fanbase. It works just fine for us.
Good to hear. What you're trying to do is..... difficult..... and, probably, unpopular and I'm totally down with that. Same reason I'm on-board with Shards Online, The Repopulation, and other high-concept games. All I'm saying is that you may not actually realize the size of your target market at this point, so before you go around becoming a "PR Nightmare" as it was put, you should probably have a better understanding of what that audience looks like. You know, because there are other people involved with the project, I'm assuming, who may want to get paid at some point.
Here's an example. So I was at a Marilyn Manson concert just recently. I was probably a bigger fan when I was younger, but it was with the Smashing Pumpkins who were one of my all-time faves, so whatever. Anyway, it'd been a solid 15 years since I saw a Manson concert. It was quite interesting to people watch and see some of the older fans there. Shoot, one lady I met in line was in her mid 40s. All told, the demographic between when I was 20 and now was completely different. Much broader demographic. Now, even though we understand his ideals, I feel like the message changes when you get older and there is more interpretation. I don't get as "jazzed" as I once did about someone saying "fuck you" to "the man". Just saying, I would hate to see someone that's trying to do something high-concept leave so much on the table.
I'll be keeping an eye out for you guys, thanks for input. And my two cents: I don't think I would have any problem working with you guys, I prefer blunt anytime over ... well ordinary PR fluff. Unfortunately my C -skills have been buried somewhere in java desert.
I'll be keeping an eye out for you guys, thanks for input. And my two cents: I don't think I would have any problem working with you guys, I prefer blunt anytime over ... well ordinary PR fluff. Unfortunately my C -skills have been buried somewhere in java desert.
Cheers Well, I can't code to save my life. I let the pros do their job
I get where you are coming from, but A: we aren't looking for people's permission, and B: we aren't looking for their permission, and C: we aren't looking for their permission.
I build communities for a living. It's my day job. Look me up. Feel free. Marginal Boundaries is the name of our travel brand. We just finished up a three-month government contract in Spain for March, April and May. Last year I built two brands for clients, the largest out of Playa del Carmen from 55k to 155k followers in the span of 12 months. We've launched dozens of brands through our boot camps. I'm speaking on brand management and social media at the New Media Expo in Vegas in April of 2016. Most recently I spoke on long-term social media campaigns and community growth hacking at the TBEX convention in Lloret de Mar, Spain in April of 2015.
Not video games, but it doesn't matter. Communities are communities around the world, across genres, and across industries. It doesn't matter if they are paying 15 a month for a video game, or 15 a month for a private newsletter with travel hacks, or 15 bucks a month for webinars, or 50 bucks a pop per ebook.
We're also intimately familiar with target audience size, retention, and the numbers WE want and need to hit for OUR profitability...and those numbers are unique to us, and have zero to do with WoW, EQ2, Crowfall, Project Gorgon, or any other game or any f2p title, since they aren't us, and they aren't our team.
When we are looking for the public's permission or opinion on how we manage our blog posts and community outreach, we'll be sure to let you (and everyone else) know and we'll open up a poll for voting. In the meantime, we'll manage our company and our community outreach in the manner in which we see fit.
Everyone who fits within our interest group = more than welcome to join along for the ride.
We don't require the permission or approval of people outside of our community or those whose mindsets don't align with our own. Is that arrogant of us? We don't think so. For our target audience, we're willing to bleed, and for those who are interested in what we are building, we're already going the extra mile and will continue to do so.
Interested in our game? Let's talk.
Interested in complaining how we don't have PvP, or how we aren't free to play, or how we don't have solo content, or how we aren't on our knees catering to the chosen few on the Internet? There's the door.
You'll also want to tune in to Mastery Mastery on Monday nights with Giovanni and Nick, as they're going into greater detail on the skills and masteries system, plus archetypes and skills, and a "build of the week" series talking about pre-built archetypes and how all of these things tie together. Bard questions are high up on the list!
We're more than humble...with the people who are in our target market and who are within our wheelhouse of target audience. For the trolls and whiners, again....tissue + door + have fun elsewhere.
Meanwhile, we'll cater to our friends, families, and the few hundred folks we have so far with whom we are building a loyal fanbase. It works just fine for us.
Good to hear. What you're trying to do is..... difficult..... and, probably, unpopular and I'm totally down with that. Same reason I'm on-board with Shards Online, The Repopulation, and other high-concept games. All I'm saying is that you may not actually realize the size of your target market at this point, so before you go around becoming a "PR Nightmare" as it was put, you should probably have a better understanding of what that audience looks like. You know, because there are other people involved with the project, I'm assuming, who may want to get paid at some point.
Here's an example. So I was at a Marilyn Manson concert just recently. I was probably a bigger fan when I was younger, but it was with the Smashing Pumpkins who were one of my all-time faves, so whatever. Anyway, it'd been a solid 15 years since I saw a Manson concert. It was quite interesting to people watch and see some of the older fans there. Shoot, one lady I met in line was in her mid 40s. All told, the demographic between when I was 20 and now was completely different. Much broader demographic. Now, even though we understand his ideals, I feel like the message changes when you get older and there is more interpretation. I don't get as "jazzed" as I once did about someone saying "fuck you" to "the man". Just saying, I would hate to see someone that's trying to do something high-concept leave so much on the table.
It's probably just me though.
Completely agree. The concepts behind the game is great and is something I can get behind, but the man's attitude stinks and he does a disservice to the other devs on the game. The man has demonstrated no ability to accept criticism, instead he lashes out with immature remarks when he should be trying to sell the game to the undecided. I understand he's got a target audience but anyone with a small amount of business sense knows it's better to be humble when approaching potential customers to help build the player base, instead he tells them to f**k off and calls them whiney brats. The people who criticise he calls trolls and shrills. The funny thing is no one has criticised the game, they have criticised him. For some reason he appears not to realise or dosen't care that if he tones it down a bit, he will have the potential to get more customers.
when he should be trying to sell the game to the undecided. I understand he's got a target audience but anyone with a small amount of business sense knows it's better to be humble when approaching potential customers to help build the player base, instead he tells them to f**k off and calls them whiney brats. The people who criticise he calls trolls and shrills. The funny thing is no one has criticised the game, they have criticised him. For some reason he appears not to realise or dosen't care that if he tones it down a bit, he will have the potential to get more customers.
We're more than happy to talk with people who are interested in our game. F2P people, those who want PvP, those who want solo play, those who want to complain and criticize and have us change OUR vision to suit THEIR vision of what they think we should be building = the ones we are calling whiny brats and showing the door to.
When we are looking for the public's permission or opinion on how we manage our blog posts and community outreach, we'll be sure to let you (and everyone else) know and we'll open up a poll for voting. In the meantime, we'll manage our company and our community outreach in the manner in which we see fit.
This what they don't seem to be getting through they're heads. Seriously, if they don't like it or think you should be building a game that suits them, sorry but the door is that way.
Game sounds great thus far! one quick question though. Can we please have some 'little folk' involved more in the game as playable races? Gnomes, Kobolds, Dwarves, etc! So many gamers & game these day seem to neglect the wee folks!
This what they don't seem to be getting through they're heads. Seriously, if they don't like it or think you should be building a game that suits them, sorry but the door is that way.
More or less.
We *love* talking about our game. With interested parties who understand our vision and want to be a part of it.
What we have zero patience for, and no qualms crushing and showing the door to, are the whiny, the bitchy, the "if you don't have PvP I'm not going to play", the "you don't have solo content so I'm not going to play", the "booo it's a monthly sub, I want free to play", and beyond who want us to change our game to suit THEIR vision of what our game should be.
Game sounds great thus far! one quick question though. Can we please have some 'little folk' involved more in the game as playable races? Gnomes, Kobolds, Dwarves, etc! So many gamers & game these day seem to neglect the wee folks!
We don't have too many of the traditional races in our world so far. The Dwearhe might be considered dwarf-like, but really they are more like stone golems. And so far, there aren't any gnomes/kobolds/etc. in the lore
But who knows what might show up over the course of development as we explore new parts of the realms!
This what they don't seem to be getting through they're heads. Seriously, if they don't like it or think you should be building a game that suits them, sorry but the door is that way.
More or less.
We *love* talking about our game. With interested parties who understand our vision and want to be a part of it.
What we have zero patience for, and no qualms crushing and showing the door to, are the whiny, the bitchy, the "if you don't have PvP I'm not going to play", the "you don't have solo content so I'm not going to play", the "booo it's a monthly sub, I want free to play", and beyond who want us to change our game to suit THEIR vision of what our game should be.
Door + tissue = everyone happy.
It's great to hear you are going to stand behind your vision for the game and I respect that. It's just the way you are going about it. The aggressive, insulting manner towards others just leaves a bad taste and makes me wonder how you will react to criticism towards game mechanics later in development, for example a percentage of the player base does not like game mechanic A and offer constructive criticism to help improve the mechanic. Are you going to listen and engage their criticisms or tell them to F off and state the game is not for them.
Basically how you act now will leave an impression in how you will act in the future.
It's great to hear you are going to stand behind your vision for the game and I respect that. It's just the way you are going about it. The aggressive, insulting manner towards others just leaves a bad taste and makes me wonder how you will react to criticism towards game mechanics later in development, for example a percentage of the player base does not like game mechanic A and offer constructive criticism to help improve the mechanic. Are you going to listen and engage their criticisms or tell them to F off and state the game is not for them.
Basically how you act now will leave an impression in how you will act in the future.
Paying customers are a completely different conversation No comparison.
Edited to add* and it would have to be a major, game-changing percentage of players. If it was just a vocal minority....
Comments
If I can make one small suggestion though, just be careful walking that line, while I find the blunt honesty refreshing the corporate world we gamers inhabit, you some of the responses seemed to be pushing for a conflict that was not there.
Relax a little bit, like you said, the vision will sell its self if its good enough and the execution is good, so dont worry about having to fire back at people. For a game which is apparently 2 years from launch, it already looks good and sounds really promising so I hope that an mmo will finally have a proper Bard Support for me to play!
A game with these ideas is one I have wanted for a while, and I will be keeping an eye out for early access founder packs etc when there is a bit more to see.
Good luck guys, and remember, you dont need to impress us with words, most of us are immune to them at this point, but dont go looking for internet fights either.
Early Access is just around the corner via pre-orders, and we've got plenty of tiers you'll be able to choose from. We've got our Indiegogo folks joining us here in a few weeks, and everyone else will be able to start joining us shortly afterwards as we finish up the final testing of our alpha servers moving them over from pre-alpha. Stay tuned on that regard
Transparency is vital to our ongoing mission, so we're doing what we can to make sure there are no illusions.
I have played a significant number of subscription MMOs and I have also played an even more significant number of F2P MMOs. I still play both.
The fact that you believe that my experiences with Chat are somehow localized to a single shard in a single game is actually amusing and speaks to your actual INEXPERIENCE in MMORPGs. Maybe you're thinking of the "bad old days" when communities were actually helpful and fun to play in. However, back in those days, the core gamer was young. The demographics, really, haven't changed.
Then you go on to say that adults can act as bad as children, which is basically what I'm trying to say in the first place!!!!
Secondly, your completely legitimate assertion that free screams to the adolescent mind is another hilarious anecdote that's entirely unfounded. In reality, the "free lunch" is something that's been around forEVER!!! In fact, the notion that "there is no such thing as a free lunch" has been documented all the way back to the 1930s. This is nothing new, and it's not marketing that is aimed at kids. You're right, they don't have money. Mom and Dad have money. It's the same way that you'll see people with these "free" enter-to-win contests. You need to be 18, though. Yeah!! Free car!!! Then you end up getting phone calls from some guy trying to sell you a freezer full of meat for the next 6 months. I can assure you that, while game companies certainly spend time and money marketing to youth, the primary market of F2P is NOT youth, it's middle-aged players. Players with money. That's who the whales are. There may be anomalous cases of kids spending thousands in a game, but the majority of those cases are middle-aged players.
Oh, and all developers will not tell you this. Actually, everything that you've said is completely contradictory to what developers will tell you. It's doom and gloom and I'm really hoping that people don't take what you say seriously, not that anyone actually would. Again, you sound like a crazy preacher sitting on the side of the street yelling at cars as they go past.
Ummmm, yeah, and I might very well play it. Oh, and I also have 4 kids who I might let play it just to shift that demographic.
For the record, I was simply explaining to you how Renfail's comments could be considered a PR Nightmare, since that concept or seeing how it could create a problem seemed foreign to you. However, our conversation has cleared up a lot of those initial questions.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
In 16 months of getting from there to here, we've got an overwhelmingly satisfied community and no one has been offended by us telling the crybaby freeloaders to take a hike. Until someone brought it up here on the mmorpg.com forums. We aren't worried. It's a handful of vocal forum trolls who make the same loud shrilling in every thread they post on.
It goes with the territory. As our visibility increases, there's going to be more trolls coming out of the woodwork looking to stir up trouble and make loud, shrilling claims about "doom and gloom" and the like, and we'll respond the same way we have been since day one.
Here's a tissue, and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Meanwhile, the overwhelming majority who love what we are doing, and what we are developing...here's a bag of goodies and a bottle of wine, it's time to paaaarrttyyyy.
We are confident that bard lovers are going to be blown away by what they'll be able to bring to the table in our game, in terms of support + style + customization.
On a side note, I've been really enjoying the way they have been doing in Pillars of Creation. I've finally had some free time the past few weeks and I've been digging in to that game after months of having it available and never having time.
This video sums up my response to what I have read here and in other places today
Sure, but ignorance will get you nowhere. Being a self-proclaimed expert in something for which you have limited/no experience, nor does your team, is about as smart a business move as claiming to be bigger than WoW.
It's fine to have a niche, and it's awesome that you chose to come here and field questions from people who have an interest in the genre, but you may want to take some pointers from other indie guys, like @JC-Smith ; or @Logrus_CS on how to be humble at the same time. There's a wasteland filled with game companies who were "overwhelmingly satisfied" with their communities. I'm certain you will definitely appeal to your families and the hundreds of people who will come to play. Remember, you haven't even been fed to the vultures yet, so don't brag how your skin is barely scratched.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Meanwhile, we'll cater to our friends, families, and the few hundred folks we have so far with whom we are building a loyal fanbase. It works just fine for us.
Cheers
Probably around 9 p.m. EST
Good to hear. What you're trying to do is..... difficult..... and, probably, unpopular and I'm totally down with that. Same reason I'm on-board with Shards Online, The Repopulation, and other high-concept games. All I'm saying is that you may not actually realize the size of your target market at this point, so before you go around becoming a "PR Nightmare" as it was put, you should probably have a better understanding of what that audience looks like. You know, because there are other people involved with the project, I'm assuming, who may want to get paid at some point.
Here's an example. So I was at a Marilyn Manson concert just recently. I was probably a bigger fan when I was younger, but it was with the Smashing Pumpkins who were one of my all-time faves, so whatever. Anyway, it'd been a solid 15 years since I saw a Manson concert. It was quite interesting to people watch and see some of the older fans there. Shoot, one lady I met in line was in her mid 40s. All told, the demographic between when I was 20 and now was completely different. Much broader demographic. Now, even though we understand his ideals, I feel like the message changes when you get older and there is more interpretation. I don't get as "jazzed" as I once did about someone saying "fuck you" to "the man". Just saying, I would hate to see someone that's trying to do something high-concept leave so much on the table.
It's probably just me though.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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And my two cents: I don't think I would have any problem working with you guys, I prefer blunt anytime over ... well ordinary PR fluff.
Unfortunately my C -skills have been buried somewhere in java desert.
I get where you are coming from, but A: we aren't looking for people's permission, and B: we aren't looking for their permission, and C: we aren't looking for their permission.
I build communities for a living. It's my day job. Look me up. Feel free. Marginal Boundaries is the name of our travel brand. We just finished up a three-month government contract in Spain for March, April and May. Last year I built two brands for clients, the largest out of Playa del Carmen from 55k to 155k followers in the span of 12 months. We've launched dozens of brands through our boot camps. I'm speaking on brand management and social media at the New Media Expo in Vegas in April of 2016. Most recently I spoke on long-term social media campaigns and community growth hacking at the TBEX convention in Lloret de Mar, Spain in April of 2015.
Not video games, but it doesn't matter. Communities are communities around the world, across genres, and across industries. It doesn't matter if they are paying 15 a month for a video game, or 15 a month for a private newsletter with travel hacks, or 15 bucks a month for webinars, or 50 bucks a pop per ebook.
We're also intimately familiar with target audience size, retention, and the numbers WE want and need to hit for OUR profitability...and those numbers are unique to us, and have zero to do with WoW, EQ2, Crowfall, Project Gorgon, or any other game or any f2p title, since they aren't us, and they aren't our team.
When we are looking for the public's permission or opinion on how we manage our blog posts and community outreach, we'll be sure to let you (and everyone else) know and we'll open up a poll for voting. In the meantime, we'll manage our company and our community outreach in the manner in which we see fit.
Everyone who fits within our interest group = more than welcome to join along for the ride.
We don't require the permission or approval of people outside of our community or those whose mindsets don't align with our own. Is that arrogant of us? We don't think so. For our target audience, we're willing to bleed, and for those who are interested in what we are building, we're already going the extra mile and will continue to do so.
Interested in our game? Let's talk.
Interested in complaining how we don't have PvP, or how we aren't free to play, or how we don't have solo content, or how we aren't on our knees catering to the chosen few on the Internet? There's the door.
You'll also want to tune in to Mastery Mastery on Monday nights with Giovanni and Nick, as they're going into greater detail on the skills and masteries system, plus archetypes and skills, and a "build of the week" series talking about pre-built archetypes and how all of these things tie together. Bard questions are high up on the list!
We're more than happy to talk with people who are interested in our game. F2P people, those who want PvP, those who want solo play, those who want to complain and criticize and have us change OUR vision to suit THEIR vision of what they think we should be building = the ones we are calling whiny brats and showing the door to.
Everyone else we're more than happy to talk with.
Game sounds great thus far! one quick question though. Can we please have some 'little folk' involved more in the game as playable races? Gnomes, Kobolds, Dwarves, etc! So many gamers & game these day seem to neglect the wee folks!
We *love* talking about our game. With interested parties who understand our vision and want to be a part of it.
What we have zero patience for, and no qualms crushing and showing the door to, are the whiny, the bitchy, the "if you don't have PvP I'm not going to play", the "you don't have solo content so I'm not going to play", the "booo it's a monthly sub, I want free to play", and beyond who want us to change our game to suit THEIR vision of what our game should be.
Door + tissue = everyone happy.
But who knows what might show up over the course of development as we explore new parts of the realms!
Basically how you act now will leave an impression in how you will act in the future.
Ye, I played huntardin there.
Edited to add* and it would have to be a major, game-changing percentage of players. If it was just a vocal minority....