It's great to hear you are going to stand behind your vision for the game and I respect that. It's just the way you are going about it. The aggressive, insulting manner towards others just leaves a bad taste and makes me wonder how you will react to criticism towards game mechanics later in development, for example a percentage of the player base does not like game mechanic A and offer constructive criticism to help improve the mechanic. Are you going to listen and engage their criticisms or tell them to F off and state the game is not for them.
Basically how you act now will leave an impression in how you will act in the future.
Paying customers are a completely different conversation No comparison.
Basically you are saying we are only worth listening to if we are paying. Nice and thank you
You should be looking at everyone as potential paying customers whilst treating them with the common decency they deserve whilst still standing behind your vision for the game.
Just a quick question: you don't happen to have pets in game ? You see only thing I miss from WoW are my pets . Ye, I played huntardin there.
Yep, we have pets, although they are only gained through the Animal Training skill, and they CAN be killed, and cannot be resurrected. You'll have to find and train a new one, or find someone to train you a new one, if you let yours die.
Same goes for mounts and pack mules. Finite hitpoints, finite resource.
Basically you are saying we are only worth listening to if we are paying. Nice and thank you
You should be looking at everyone as potential paying customers whilst treating them with the common decency they deserve whilst still standing behind your vision for the game.
As someone who has been traveling the world full time and doing business in countries where the customer is almost never right for the past 8 years, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.
If you haven't put any money on the line, you don't have a pony in this race, and thus your opinion = meaningless to us.
You don't "deserve" anything. That's your entitlement speaking.
Just a quick question: you don't happen to have pets in game ? You see only thing I miss from WoW are my pets . Ye, I played huntardin there.
Yep, we have pets, although they are only gained through the Animal Training skill, and they CAN be killed, and cannot be resurrected. You'll have to find and train a new one, or find someone to train you a new one, if you let yours die.
Same goes for mounts and pack mules. Finite hitpoints, finite resource.
Ok, so have to pay attention so I won't kill Beery II
Just a quick question: you don't happen to have pets in game ? You see only thing I miss from WoW are my pets . Ye, I played huntardin there.
Yep, we have pets, although they are only gained through the Animal Training skill, and they CAN be killed, and cannot be resurrected. You'll have to find and train a new one, or find someone to train you a new one, if you let yours die.
Same goes for mounts and pack mules. Finite hitpoints, finite resource.
Ok, so have to pay attention so I won't kill Beery II
Yes! And your group mates have to pay attention as well
Pets won't be easy to come by, and you'll want to protect them as best you can so that they can stick around!
We've seen this before around here over the years. A new developer pops in with no product, a huge ego, talks loud, talks a lot, and generates ill will. Then some random poster comes around and exposes them and their project. Their project tanks and no one ever hears of the developer again.
Maybe you can buck the trend. Word to the wise though, your going down the same path.
Basically you are saying we are only worth listening to if we are paying. Nice and thank you
You should be looking at everyone as potential paying customers whilst treating them with the common decency they deserve whilst still standing behind your vision for the game.
As someone who has been traveling the world full time and doing business in countries where the customer is almost never right for the past 8 years, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.
If you haven't put any money on the line, you don't have a pony in this race, and thus your opinion = meaningless to us.
You don't "deserve" anything. That's your entitlement speaking.
The funny thing as I mentioned I respect your decision to stand behind your goals for your game, it's just your shitty way you are going about it. I never said the customer is always right, I was just voicing my disappointment regarding your attitude. If I see someone acting a twat, I'll tell them they are acting a twat.
Your game design fits my playstyle (old EQ and VG vet) and I'm not trying to get you to design your game differently.
Like you mentioned you are a travel agent. What game development have you been involved in before? Why should I trust someone with no experience in game development with my money?
The funny thing as I mentioned I respect your decision to stand behind your goals for your game, it's just your shitty way you are going about it. I never said the customer is always right, I was just voicing my disappointment regarding your attitude. If I see someone acting a twat, I'll tell them they are acting a twat.
Your game design fits my playstyle (old EQ and VG vet) and I'm not trying to get you to design your game differently.
Like you mentioned you are a travel agent. What game development have you been involved in before? Why should I trust someone with no experience in game development with my money?
Travel agent? Go back and read again. Although that's by far the funniest thing I've read all day! I'll have to run that one by the wife when she gets home.
You shouldn't. I have zero desire to convince you. Either you want to play the game, or you don't. End of story.
It's been the most entertaining Monday I've had for months as well! Wife keeps asking why I'm over here giggling, and I have to keep bringing her up to speed.
Maybe you can buck the trend. Word to the wise though, your going down the same path.
I guess only time will tell.
I have been thinking about how to express the issue here. Let me try, and if it doesn't come across well, I apologize.
You have described a game that many people on these boards find interesting. Your goals do not seem unreasonable, and you are making something that in theory would be fill an under served niche. Interest in your game is genuine, even if a bit early in process.
However, the community which you are building is off putting to many people here. As a representative of the company building the game you are setting the expectations of how the community for your game will act. Your personal interactions leads many people who may be interested in the game to have second thoughts, because they do not want to be part of such a community. This has nothing to do with what types of games they like, payment models the like, or any other game related issues. It has to do with the type of people that they care to associate with.
There is a bit of an arrogant/negative/spiteful vibe that is being transmitted that makes many people feel uncomfortable. This is the same type of vibe that is often associated with aggressive/juvenile F2P/PvP based communities where it is considered acceptable to use sexual/racial slurs, and where actions such as teabagging are common practice. These are the types of communities that mature gamers avoid, because they detract from the fun of a game, and are just not worth the time.
If what I am saying makes sense, perhaps you may better understand why your approach is unsettling to many that are interested in the technical aspects of the game you are describing.... but are leery of the community being built.
The funny thing as I mentioned I respect your decision to stand behind your goals for your game, it's just your shitty way you are going about it. I never said the customer is always right, I was just voicing my disappointment regarding your attitude. If I see someone acting a twat, I'll tell them they are acting a twat.
Your game design fits my playstyle (old EQ and VG vet) and I'm not trying to get you to design your game differently.
Like you mentioned you are a travel agent. What game development have you been involved in before? Why should I trust someone with no experience in game development with my money?
Travel agent? Go back and read again. Although that's by far the funniest thing I've read all day! I'll have to run that one by the wife when she gets home.
You shouldn't. I have zero desire to convince you. Either you want to play the game, or you don't. End of story.
I apologise for the travel agent slur (no offense to travel agents ) I nearly fell to your level. You mentioned a business background in an earlier post but did not mention any game development experience.
You still didn't answer my questions.
What game development have you been involved in before? Why should I
trust someone with no experience in game development with my money? Has your team been involved in other game development and if so what was it?
My question is, does anyone know a link to the books this game is based on? I found a series by T.W. Anderson specializing in analysis or math or something, but nothing other than that. /shrug
You'll want to head over to The Story So Far question if you want to read the book content. It's being released in chapter format monthly.
I have a question. I want to play an Islander, do I have to wait until Volume 3 to play one? I know you can't to to their lands till then but can you make one at all day one?
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
My question is, does anyone know a link to the books this game is based on? I found a series by T.W. Anderson specializing in analysis or math or something, but nothing other than that. /shrug
You'll want to head over to The Story So Far question if you want to read the book content. It's being released in chapter format monthly.
I have a question. I want to play an Islander, do I have to wait until Volume 3 to play one? I know you can't to to their lands till then but can you make one at all day one?
At this point, it's not on the table, but we might change that since they are a Human race and part of the "good guys".
We've talked about it internally, and we're debating changing up a few things within our publishing dates. Stay tuned for more info on that!
My question is, does anyone know a link to the books this game is based on? I found a series by T.W. Anderson specializing in analysis or math or something, but nothing other than that. /shrug
You'll want to head over to The Story So Far question if you want to read the book content. It's being released in chapter format monthly.
I have a question. I want to play an Islander, do I have to wait until Volume 3 to play one? I know you can't to to their lands till then but can you make one at all day one?
At this point, it's not on the table, but we might change that since they are a Human race and part of the "good guys".
We've talked about it internally, and we're debating changing up a few things within our publishing dates. Stay tuned for more info on that!
Cool, it would be nice to be able to make one. As a person of color I enjoy playing people of color and their cultural groups (Big Redguard/Erudite - EQ1/Elonian guy here). Perhaps a story about the other people being stranded in the opening lands day one for some reason? That way you can have the other races even if you can't go to their homelands just yet. I am fine with playing a stranded sailor or trader or something from the Island nations.
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
Cool, it would be nice to be able to make one. As a person of color I enjoy playing people of color and their cultural groups (Big Redguard/Erudite - EQ1/Elonian guy here). Perhaps a story about the other people being stranded in the opening lands day one for some reason? That way you can have the other races even if you can't go to their homelands just yet. I am fine with playing a stranded sailor or trader or something from the Island nations.
Technically, they're all Human....and there are already Islanders living on the mainland...we had just written them into Volume III as a playable race for another reason. But that reason has become less important as we've gone further along, and we don't see any reason why we couldn't include them from the start. Also, there are other men/women of color and cultural groups within the kingdoms of Lucimia...it's a pretty diverse group of humans
Research us. More importantly, research me, as I'm the project
leader/executive producer. Most recently my wife and I just finished up
three months in Spain as official resident bloggers for the Costa Brava
government out of Girona, and my 15th speaking engagement at the TBEX
travel blog convention on long-term social media campaigns. I'm already
scheduled for the New Media Expo in Vegas in April of 2016. My day job =
brand management and consultation. I have a pretty healthy track record
of bringing projects to fruition within timelines
I think
you'll find that our existing fanbase are more than happy with our
progress so far, despite the fact we're doing this in our spare time,
outside of our day jobs.
Thank you for answering my questions. I would love to play a game similar to the one you are designing but I fear if the community follow your example it will be toxic and unfortunately I would want no part of it. We are different people with different values and one of my values is to treat others how I would like to be treated. It appears one of your values is to treat people with disdain if they don't fall in to your perceived demographic. I'm out of this thread but I wish you and your dev team success and hopefully with time may be your attitude towards others will mellow.
As someone who has been traveling the world full time and doing business in countries where the customer is almost never right for the past 8 years, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.
If you haven't put any money on the line, you don't have a pony in this race, and thus your opinion = meaningless to us.
You don't "deserve" anything. That's your entitlement speaking.
Great way to sell yourself to possible future customers. :silenced: GL but I can see how that ship is going to sail.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Great way to sell yourself to possible future customers. :silenced:
As previously mentioned, we have zero desire to try and sell ourselves to "potential customers". If we have to sell ourselves, we haven't done a good enough job designing the game in the first place
Went through the FAQ and the game does sound super interesting. It basically takes a lot of people back to their pen and paper days where an adventure can take hours and a campaign can take months/years to complete. The way to dungeon mechanics were described also means that aside from the traditional tank, dps, healer you will also need hybrid/utility to complete all challenges faced. Failure also seemingly has a lot of consequences, even the loss of a pet can be a tremendous pain in the ass. All of that sounds really good in theory.
However, there's also a few concerns I have about the reality of the game itself.
First and foremost is your really shitty attitude Renfail. EVERYONE is a potential customer at this point, regardless of your personal feelings on the subject. People tend to not give money to people they don't trust, and the ill will you are creating is going to create a lot of mistrust. There's confidence and then there's arrogance. It's a thin line to walk and most don't do it well. Just food for thought.
Secondly. The time investment towards the game is going to be significant. I worry bout the actual cost of the monthly sub. In order to schedule 8 people for 2-4 hour jaunts can be a difficult task at times. Especially for adults who have responsibilities in their careers and family, more so if they have children. If your "average" group of gamers for this particular game can't invest in more than, let's day one or even two days per week, they might feel the value of the sub isn't worth what they are getting out of it. I would suggest something like either a reduced sub, like $10 per month or even potentially less. Possibly even a tiered sub system with a few price points with some differing options. Like how FF XIV offers a cheaper sub for people who only want to play one character.
Lastly, I understand you don't want solo questing or even adventuring. I can respect that completely, especially if there's a good LFG system in place to allow people to get connected more easily. I see that city roaming and some crafting is soloable. I would suggest having other things soloable as well. Possibly in the future, have like city jobs people can do for something like city rep that could reduce let's say the price on crafting mats or even rent on personal homes. For those adventuring quite a bit, they should be able to fully afford the cost of living in the world. For those with less time, or more scheduling issues, having some fluff things to do during downtime can be beneficial for making the world feel a bit more alive. Also, more time spent in game allows for more potential social interactions, which then leads to more adventuring for more people.
Your team has the potential to deliver a product to an under served population. If you guys pull this off, it could lead to greater success in the future. Again though, being uncompromising in your design vision doesn't mean you need to come off like an asshole though.
Good luck though, this game could be really good if done right.
Went through the FAQ and the game does sound super interesting. It basically takes a lot of people back to their pen and paper days where an adventure can take hours and a campaign can take months/years to complete. The way to dungeon mechanics were described also means that aside from the traditional tank, dps, healer you will also need hybrid/utility to complete all challenges faced. Failure also seemingly has a lot of consequences, even the loss of a pet can be a tremendous pain in the ass. All of that sounds really good in theory.
Your team has the potential to deliver a product to an under served population. If you guys pull this off, it could lead to greater success in the future.
Good luck though, this game could be really good if done right.
We're working hard to ensure that we do it right. The team is great, everyone is brilliant at their job, and we can't wait to continue to unveil what everyone is building towards.
Comments
You should be looking at everyone as potential paying customers whilst treating them with the common decency they deserve whilst still standing behind your vision for the game.
Same goes for mounts and pack mules. Finite hitpoints, finite resource.
As someone who has been traveling the world full time and doing business in countries where the customer is almost never right for the past 8 years, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.
If you haven't put any money on the line, you don't have a pony in this race, and thus your opinion = meaningless to us.
You don't "deserve" anything. That's your entitlement speaking.
Ok, so have to pay attention so I won't kill Beery II
Pets won't be easy to come by, and you'll want to protect them as best you can so that they can stick around!
We've seen this before around here over the years. A new developer pops in with no product, a huge ego, talks loud, talks a lot, and generates ill will. Then some random poster comes around and exposes them and their project. Their project tanks and no one ever hears of the developer again.
Maybe you can buck the trend. Word to the wise though, your going down the same path.
Your game design fits my playstyle (old EQ and VG vet) and I'm not trying to get you to design your game differently.
Like you mentioned you are a travel agent. What game development have you been involved in before? Why should I trust someone with no experience in game development with my money?
You shouldn't. I have zero desire to convince you. Either you want to play the game, or you don't. End of story.
I guess only time will tell.
You have described a game that many people on these boards find interesting. Your goals do not seem unreasonable, and you are making something that in theory would be fill an under served niche. Interest in your game is genuine, even if a bit early in process.
However, the community which you are building is off putting to many people here. As a representative of the company building the game you are setting the expectations of how the community for your game will act. Your personal interactions leads many people who may be interested in the game to have second thoughts, because they do not want to be part of such a community. This has nothing to do with what types of games they like, payment models the like, or any other game related issues. It has to do with the type of people that they care to associate with.
There is a bit of an arrogant/negative/spiteful vibe that is being transmitted that makes many people feel uncomfortable. This is the same type of vibe that is often associated with aggressive/juvenile F2P/PvP based communities where it is considered acceptable to use sexual/racial slurs, and where actions such as teabagging are common practice. These are the types of communities that mature gamers avoid, because they detract from the fun of a game, and are just not worth the time.
If what I am saying makes sense, perhaps you may better understand why your approach is unsettling to many that are interested in the technical aspects of the game you are describing.... but are leery of the community being built.
You still didn't answer my questions.
What game development have you been involved in before?
Why should I trust someone with no experience in game development with my money?
Has your team been involved in other game development and if so what was it?
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
We've talked about it internally, and we're debating changing up a few things within our publishing dates. Stay tuned for more info on that!
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
I think you'll find that our existing fanbase are more than happy with our progress so far, despite the fact we're doing this in our spare time, outside of our day jobs.
Thank you for answering my questions. I would love to play a game similar to the one you are designing but I fear if the community follow your example it will be toxic and unfortunately I would want no part of it. We are different people with different values and one of my values is to treat others how I would like to be treated. It appears one of your values is to treat people with disdain if they don't fall in to your perceived demographic. I'm out of this thread but I wish you and your dev team success and hopefully with time may be your attitude towards others will mellow.
Great way to sell yourself to possible future customers. :silenced:
GL but I can see how that ship is going to sail.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
As previously mentioned, we have zero desire to try and sell ourselves to "potential customers". If we have to sell ourselves, we haven't done a good enough job designing the game in the first place
However, there's also a few concerns I have about the reality of the game itself.
First and foremost is your really shitty attitude Renfail. EVERYONE is a potential customer at this point, regardless of your personal feelings on the subject. People tend to not give money to people they don't trust, and the ill will you are creating is going to create a lot of mistrust. There's confidence and then there's arrogance. It's a thin line to walk and most don't do it well. Just food for thought.
Secondly. The time investment towards the game is going to be significant. I worry bout the actual cost of the monthly sub. In order to schedule 8 people for 2-4 hour jaunts can be a difficult task at times. Especially for adults who have responsibilities in their careers and family, more so if they have children. If your "average" group of gamers for this particular game can't invest in more than, let's day one or even two days per week, they might feel the value of the sub isn't worth what they are getting out of it. I would suggest something like either a reduced sub, like $10 per month or even potentially less. Possibly even a tiered sub system with a few price points with some differing options. Like how FF XIV offers a cheaper sub for people who only want to play one character.
Lastly, I understand you don't want solo questing or even adventuring. I can respect that completely, especially if there's a good LFG system in place to allow people to get connected more easily. I see that city roaming and some crafting is soloable. I would suggest having other things soloable as well. Possibly in the future, have like city jobs people can do for something like city rep that could reduce let's say the price on crafting mats or even rent on personal homes. For those adventuring quite a bit, they should be able to fully afford the cost of living in the world. For those with less time, or more scheduling issues, having some fluff things to do during downtime can be beneficial for making the world feel a bit more alive. Also, more time spent in game allows for more potential social interactions, which then leads to more adventuring for more people.
Your team has the potential to deliver a product to an under served population. If you guys pull this off, it could lead to greater success in the future. Again though, being uncompromising in your design vision doesn't mean you need to come off like an asshole though.
Good luck though, this game could be really good if done right.
We're working hard to ensure that we do it right. The team is great, everyone is brilliant at their job, and we can't wait to continue to unveil what everyone is building towards.