Awesome article.
I feel people that are siding with CIG are being blinded by some rational I don't understand. Hope maybe?
I don't think it's too tough. The game, as described, would be amazing. And if you're looking for exactly that kind of game, you'll do whatever you can to convince yourself that all negative info is just h8ters h8tin'.
If the 2000's were the "technology age", the 2010's are indubitably the "confirmation bias age".
ok, I have been a bit AWOL from the MMORPG scene recently... Can anyone give me a bullet condensed idea of what's happening here with SC? The last thing I read about them was Smart's attempt at bringing them to account. Thanks in advance if someone takes the time.
I enjoyed the article, it was well written. Though I can't see CR stepping down or even considering the possibility, regardless if it was the best thing for the project. He struggles with delegation as it is so handing off "his" game to anyone else would be failure in his eyes.
only thing people like better then a sucess story is watch people burn. Sad world we live in.
You know what is even more sad? People prefer to live in fantasy rather to face reality.
not really, i knew this game was a gamble and I am happy either way it goes. But I dont wish suffering and failire on anyone. This article is just trying to capitalize on the negativity now thats it. Its relying on peoples hate to make it popular. I will be curious what the escaptist has to say after they do there article once they have been able to talk to all the employees and visit all the locations.
Cease and desist letters may not fix problems but in this case such a letter was justified.
I'm not saying that everything within CIG is all well and shiny however this article from escapist was text book yellow journalism. Without any sort of proof or solid info, filled with rumors and "a friend said this and a friend of a friend said that" type of approach, no effort to reach to the person or persons in question. After all why let details and facts spoil a good story ?
only thing people like better then a sucess story is watch people burn. Sad world we live in.
You know what is even more sad? People prefer to live in fantasy rather to face reality.
not really, i knew this game was a gamble and I am happy either way it goes. But I dont wish suffering and failire on anyone. This article is just trying to capitalize on the negativity now thats it. Its relying on peoples hate to make it popular. I will be curious what the escaptist has to say after they do there article once they have been able to talk to all the employees and visit all the locations.
You see I am not happy either way it goes. I want crowd funded games to succeed. I want SC to be a success. Still I dislike religion in all forms.
What would you prefer? Fan parades around CIG and tossing flowers on a CR statue? Sometimes reality is not how you wanted it to be. You can call it negative or positive it just doesn't matter.
Cease and desist letters may not fix problems but in this case such a letter was justified.
I'm not saying that everything within CIG is all well and shiny however this article from escapist was text book yellow journalism. Without any sort of proof or solid info, filled with rumors and "a friend said this and a friend of a friend said that" type of approach, no effort to reach to the person or persons in question. After all why let details and facts spoil a good story ?
Initially contacted Lizzy via phone on September 26th, agreeing to chat with her later.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 26th.
Visually verified via Skype (pictures on Linkedin profiles or other images compared to Skype to verify identity).
CS2
Contacted Lizzy through email on or before September 27th.
Emails cleared by EiC, Publisher, and legal department, which allowed for following up with personal contact.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 27th.
Visually verified via Skype.
CS3
Contacted Lizzy through email on or before September 27th.
Emails cleared by EiC, Publisher, and legal department, which allowed for following up with personal contact.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 28th.
Visually verified via Skype.
CS6, CS7
Contacted Lizzy through email on or before September 27th.
Emails cleared by EiC, Publisher, and legal department, which allowed for following up with personal contact.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 26th.
Visually verified via Skype.
CS8 and CS9
Both current employees at Cloud Imperium Games.
Did not disclose their identity and contacted Lizzy through Lockbin on September 27th.
Exchanged 5-6 emails each.
Either CS2, CS6, or CS7 did not give his name, but verified employment with a Cloud Imperium Games ID and pay stubs.
This seems to clash with the statement that all of these three were
verified via Skype. It could mean the ID and pay stubs were seen via
Skype.
All of the sources quoted had their identity verified via Skype
through comparison with known photos of who the sources claimed to be.
Additionally, each quoted source had personal contact with Lizzy through
the phone.
You must have some pretty strict requirements for 'proper' journalism?
This article is rubbish. Yes, it's less inflammatory than Smart's, but the OP is still basing his entire argument on hearsay and suppostion, and disagree with a business model. This piece is no different than the escapist, and it essentially boils down to "I have a friend, who I can't tell you about and you can't actually verify any of this information, who said this exact thing and I didn't speak out before because reasons."
I know I'll get crucified for this, but this is nothing. It's pointless. It's supposition, hearsay and nothing he said is verifiable in any way, shape or form.
It's a lighter hit piece, but it's a hit piece nonetheless.
Great article with some great ideas. If you read my previous posts it's obvious that I'm what would be referred to as a Star Citizen fanboy. I'll defend Star Citizen until it is either released to critical acclaim or crashes and burns. If moving development to Austin or Manchester will better serve the good of the game, then I'm all for it. I'm also on board with the idea of Erin filling the role of a strong EP. Not that there is any proof that Chris's leadership is causing issues, but it would be an excellent buffer to preemptively negate the possibility. I'll continue to give Star Citizen, CIG, and Chris Roberts the benefit of the doubt until someone comes up with something more than unsubstantiated allegations.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams
Thank you for that well thought out piece. I saw some of the videos and what they have for now is simply insufficient for the money they have raised and the time they have been at this project. No personal stake in this but definitely "something is rotten in the state of Denmark".
I keep seeing people say unsubstantiated allegations and supposition. Am I the only one reminded of Bill Cosby? I guess nine people coming forward just isn't enough, you'll need to get 50+ before anyone takes this seriously.
Cease and desist letters may not fix problems but in this case such a letter was justified.
I'm not saying that everything within CIG is all well and shiny however this article from escapist was text book yellow journalism. Without any sort of proof or solid info, filled with rumors and "a friend said this and a friend of a friend said that" type of approach, no effort to reach to the person or persons in question. After all why let details and facts spoil a good story ?
Initially contacted Lizzy via phone on September 26th, agreeing to chat with her later.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 26th.
Visually verified via Skype (pictures on Linkedin profiles or other images compared to Skype to verify identity).
CS2
Contacted Lizzy through email on or before September 27th.
Emails cleared by EiC, Publisher, and legal department, which allowed for following up with personal contact.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 27th.
Visually verified via Skype.
CS3
Contacted Lizzy through email on or before September 27th.
Emails cleared by EiC, Publisher, and legal department, which allowed for following up with personal contact.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 28th.
Visually verified via Skype.
CS6, CS7
Contacted Lizzy through email on or before September 27th.
Emails cleared by EiC, Publisher, and legal department, which allowed for following up with personal contact.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 26th.
Visually verified via Skype.
CS8 and CS9
Both current employees at Cloud Imperium Games.
Did not disclose their identity and contacted Lizzy through Lockbin on September 27th.
Exchanged 5-6 emails each.
Either CS2, CS6, or CS7 did not give his name, but verified employment with a Cloud Imperium Games ID and pay stubs.
This seems to clash with the statement that all of these three were
verified via Skype. It could mean the ID and pay stubs were seen via
Skype.
All of the sources quoted had their identity verified via Skype
through comparison with known photos of who the sources claimed to be.
Additionally, each quoted source had personal contact with Lizzy through
the phone.
You must have some pretty strict requirements for 'proper' journalism?
Proper journalism dictates that one should check with all sides involved in the issue he investigates. It's a Cardinal Rule for obvious reasons. Escapist chose not to follow this basic rule because as i wrote earlier sometimes facts and details spoil a good story.
I keep seeing people say unsubstantiated allegations and supposition. Am I the only one reminded of Bill Cosby? I guess nine people coming forward just isn't enough, you'll need to get 50+ before anyone takes this seriously.
Except for the fact its all 3rd parties making allegations on behalf of someone else, who remains completely anonymous and free from any sort of verification of what they are saying is true.
I don't understand people wanting to dance on the grave of Star Citizen. I don't know why people thinking doing this kind of shit does anything other than hurt the game, and god knows it doesn't benefit us gamers. It only hurts the game, shit like this hurts star citizen, and shit like this hurts gamers. We are literally the biggest losers if Smart & Cronies succeed is taking Star Citizen. and I consider this a Smart Cony piece.
I keep seeing people say unsubstantiated allegations and supposition. Am I the only one reminded of Bill Cosby? I guess nine people coming forward just isn't enough, you'll need to get 50+ before anyone takes this seriously.
Your point is valid, but the lack of presented evidence means we must guard against it also being another McMartin Preschool. In absence of actual evidence we are all still left speculating.
Cease and desist letters may not fix problems but in this case such a letter was justified.
I'm not saying that everything within CIG is all well and shiny however this article from escapist was text book yellow journalism. Without any sort of proof or solid info, filled with rumors and "a friend said this and a friend of a friend said that" type of approach, no effort to reach to the person or persons in question. After all why let details and facts spoil a good story ?
Initially contacted Lizzy via phone on September 26th, agreeing to chat with her later.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 26th.
Visually verified via Skype (pictures on Linkedin profiles or other images compared to Skype to verify identity).
CS2
Contacted Lizzy through email on or before September 27th.
Emails cleared by EiC, Publisher, and legal department, which allowed for following up with personal contact.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 27th.
Visually verified via Skype.
CS3
Contacted Lizzy through email on or before September 27th.
Emails cleared by EiC, Publisher, and legal department, which allowed for following up with personal contact.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 28th.
Visually verified via Skype.
CS6, CS7
Contacted Lizzy through email on or before September 27th.
Emails cleared by EiC, Publisher, and legal department, which allowed for following up with personal contact.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 26th.
Visually verified via Skype.
CS8 and CS9
Both current employees at Cloud Imperium Games.
Did not disclose their identity and contacted Lizzy through Lockbin on September 27th.
Exchanged 5-6 emails each.
Either CS2, CS6, or CS7 did not give his name, but verified employment with a Cloud Imperium Games ID and pay stubs.
This seems to clash with the statement that all of these three were
verified via Skype. It could mean the ID and pay stubs were seen via
Skype.
All of the sources quoted had their identity verified via Skype
through comparison with known photos of who the sources claimed to be.
Additionally, each quoted source had personal contact with Lizzy through
the phone.
You must have some pretty strict requirements for 'proper' journalism?
lol verifying people's identity is not journalism. Only a part of it. The point is, validating the information given by these sources as credible. Was the person who said "they've only got x money left and spend x on y" the accountant? Did they have access to financial records? No. Just a bunch of rumors and hearsay.
http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asphttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism_ethics_and_standards
Read those to get a clue about integrity and see how the Escapist article is garbage and the blogger posing as a serious journalist should apologize and retract that crap.
I keep seeing people say unsubstantiated allegations and supposition. Am I the only one reminded of Bill Cosby? I guess nine people coming forward just isn't enough, you'll need to get 50+ before anyone takes this seriously.
Your point is valid, but the lack of presented evidence means we must guard against it also being another McMartin Preschool. In absence of actual evidence we are all still left speculating.
I might also add, your missing the point of the accusers against Cosby (at least a large % of them) not hiding behind anonymity.
Proper journalism dictates that one should check with all sides involved in the issue he investigates. It's a Cardinal Rule for obvious reasons. Escapist chose not to follow this basic rule because as i wrote earlier sometimes facts and details spoil a good story.
So sending the claims to CR prior to publication, offering time for rebuttal and then including said rebuttal in the article somehow does not suffice? The least you could do is read the article instead of making things up.
This article is rubbish. Yes, it's less inflammatory than Smart's, but the OP is still basing his entire argument on hearsay and suppostion, and disagree with a business model. This piece is no different than the escapist, and it essentially boils down to "I have a friend, who I can't tell you about and you can't actually verify any of this information, who said this exact thing and I didn't speak out before because reasons."
I know I'll get crucified for this, but this is nothing. It's pointless. It's supposition, hearsay and nothing he said is verifiable in any way, shape or form.
It's a lighter hit piece, but it's a hit piece nonetheless.
Proper journalism dictates that one should check with all sides involved in the issue he investigates. It's a Cardinal Rule for obvious reasons. Escapist chose not to follow this basic rule because as i wrote earlier sometimes facts and details spoil a good story.
So sending the claims to CR prior to publication, offering time for rebuttal and then including said rebuttal in the article somehow does not suffice? The least you could do is read the article instead of making things up.
The part that rubs wrong in this is the article should have been authored only after they spoke with both sides. In this way it could be written more balanced. I would remind you that the aritcle was originally published without anything CIG said taken into account as it was sitting in their spam folder since 3 hours before deadline.
Cease and desist letters may not fix problems but in this case such a letter was justified.
I'm not saying that everything within CIG is all well and shiny however this article from escapist was text book yellow journalism. Without any sort of proof or solid info, filled with rumors and "a friend said this and a friend of a friend said that" type of approach, no effort to reach to the person or persons in question. After all why let details and facts spoil a good story ?
Initially contacted Lizzy via phone on September 26th, agreeing to chat with her later.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 26th.
Visually verified via Skype (pictures on Linkedin profiles or other images compared to Skype to verify identity).
CS2
Contacted Lizzy through email on or before September 27th.
Emails cleared by EiC, Publisher, and legal department, which allowed for following up with personal contact.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 27th.
Visually verified via Skype.
CS3
Contacted Lizzy through email on or before September 27th.
Emails cleared by EiC, Publisher, and legal department, which allowed for following up with personal contact.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 28th.
Visually verified via Skype.
CS6, CS7
Contacted Lizzy through email on or before September 27th.
Emails cleared by EiC, Publisher, and legal department, which allowed for following up with personal contact.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 26th.
Visually verified via Skype.
CS8 and CS9
Both current employees at Cloud Imperium Games.
Did not disclose their identity and contacted Lizzy through Lockbin on September 27th.
Exchanged 5-6 emails each.
Either CS2, CS6, or CS7 did not give his name, but verified employment with a Cloud Imperium Games ID and pay stubs.
This seems to clash with the statement that all of these three were
verified via Skype. It could mean the ID and pay stubs were seen via
Skype.
All of the sources quoted had their identity verified via Skype
through comparison with known photos of who the sources claimed to be.
Additionally, each quoted source had personal contact with Lizzy through
the phone.
You must have some pretty strict requirements for 'proper' journalism?
Proper journalism dictates that one should check with all sides involved in the issue he investigates. It's a Cardinal Rule for obvious reasons. Escapist chose not to follow this basic rule because as i wrote earlier sometimes facts and details spoil a good story.
By what you think they would ask CR ok is this true? He says no and they write even thou we have 9 verified accounts what is going on, CR said it isn't, so no story here. That is just stupid.
On another point, I think it is really telling how CR was creating pixels of ships that can't work in space he created. That should really piss off a lot of folks.
Oh and if the writer has a friend he knows works at CIG it is verified and to say he lied is just wrong.
Proper journalism dictates that one should check with all sides involved in the issue he investigates. It's a Cardinal Rule for obvious reasons. Escapist chose not to follow this basic rule because as i wrote earlier sometimes facts and details spoil a good story.
By what you think they would ask CR ok is this true? He says no and they write even thou we have 9 verified accounts what is going on, CR said it isn't, so no story here. That is just stupid.
On another point, I think it is really telling how CR was creating pixels of ships that can't work in space he created. That should really piss off a lot of folks.
Oh and if the writer has a friend he knows works at CIG it is verified and to say he lied is just wrong.
That isn't how that works. You don't scrap the story you write it neutrally giving both sides their say and let the audience make their decision based on the "facts" your present. In this case of course we still have 0 Facts.
Cease and desist letters may not fix problems but in this case such a letter was justified.
I'm not saying that everything within CIG is all well and shiny however this article from escapist was text book yellow journalism. Without any sort of proof or solid info, filled with rumors and "a friend said this and a friend of a friend said that" type of approach, no effort to reach to the person or persons in question. After all why let details and facts spoil a good story ?
Initially contacted Lizzy via phone on September 26th, agreeing to chat with her later.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 26th.
Visually verified via Skype (pictures on Linkedin profiles or other images compared to Skype to verify identity).
CS2
Contacted Lizzy through email on or before September 27th.
Emails cleared by EiC, Publisher, and legal department, which allowed for following up with personal contact.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 27th.
Visually verified via Skype.
CS3
Contacted Lizzy through email on or before September 27th.
Emails cleared by EiC, Publisher, and legal department, which allowed for following up with personal contact.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 28th.
Visually verified via Skype.
CS6, CS7
Contacted Lizzy through email on or before September 27th.
Emails cleared by EiC, Publisher, and legal department, which allowed for following up with personal contact.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 26th.
Visually verified via Skype.
CS8 and CS9
Both current employees at Cloud Imperium Games.
Did not disclose their identity and contacted Lizzy through Lockbin on September 27th.
Exchanged 5-6 emails each.
Either CS2, CS6, or CS7 did not give his name, but verified employment with a Cloud Imperium Games ID and pay stubs.
This seems to clash with the statement that all of these three were
verified via Skype. It could mean the ID and pay stubs were seen via
Skype.
All of the sources quoted had their identity verified via Skype
through comparison with known photos of who the sources claimed to be.
Additionally, each quoted source had personal contact with Lizzy through
the phone.
You must have some pretty strict requirements for 'proper' journalism?
lol verifying people's identity is not journalism. Only a part of it. The point is, validating the information given by these sources as credible. Was the person who said "they've only got x money left and spend x on y" the accountant? Did they have access to financial records? No. Just a bunch of rumors and hearsay.
http://www.spj.org/ethicscode.asphttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journalism_ethics_and_standards
Read those to get a clue about integrity and see how the Escapist article is garbage and the blogger posing as a serious journalist should apologize and retract that crap.
Posting a wiki link is very easy. Would you be so kind to point out which journalism standard is mentioned in the wiki that they did not adhere to? Just curious.
Cease and desist letters may not fix problems but in this case such a letter was justified.
I'm not saying that everything within CIG is all well and shiny however this article from escapist was text book yellow journalism. Without any sort of proof or solid info, filled with rumors and "a friend said this and a friend of a friend said that" type of approach, no effort to reach to the person or persons in question. After all why let details and facts spoil a good story ?
Initially contacted Lizzy via phone on September 26th, agreeing to chat with her later.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 26th.
Visually verified via Skype (pictures on Linkedin profiles or other images compared to Skype to verify identity).
CS2
Contacted Lizzy through email on or before September 27th.
Emails cleared by EiC, Publisher, and legal department, which allowed for following up with personal contact.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 27th.
Visually verified via Skype.
CS3
Contacted Lizzy through email on or before September 27th.
Emails cleared by EiC, Publisher, and legal department, which allowed for following up with personal contact.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 28th.
Visually verified via Skype.
CS6, CS7
Contacted Lizzy through email on or before September 27th.
Emails cleared by EiC, Publisher, and legal department, which allowed for following up with personal contact.
Followup: Contacted by Lizzy via phone on September 26th.
Visually verified via Skype.
CS8 and CS9
Both current employees at Cloud Imperium Games.
Did not disclose their identity and contacted Lizzy through Lockbin on September 27th.
Exchanged 5-6 emails each.
Either CS2, CS6, or CS7 did not give his name, but verified employment with a Cloud Imperium Games ID and pay stubs.
This seems to clash with the statement that all of these three were
verified via Skype. It could mean the ID and pay stubs were seen via
Skype.
All of the sources quoted had their identity verified via Skype
through comparison with known photos of who the sources claimed to be.
Additionally, each quoted source had personal contact with Lizzy through
the phone.
You must have some pretty strict requirements for 'proper' journalism?
Great she confirmed them, but what use is that to anyone else? If people are going to make big accusations people need more than just, we have confirmed sources. What I find sloppy is she printed this, if your gonna print something with the level of accusations made, you need to have streams of facts and data to back up what you're saying, if what you posted is her on fact I don't know what to say lol.
Another question is, why didn't these people just take them straight to court? Correct me if i'm wrong theres no mention of them taking Cr to court.Where they just gonna post this and just sit back?
Don't get me wrong, i'm no a fan just looking at the article as it's self. to me just seems not done very well. Just smearing someones name without any real proof /shrug
Comments
Probably better off reading http://techraptor.net/content/star-citizen-lawsuits-and-journalism-ethics
--
I enjoyed the article, it was well written. Though I can't see CR stepping down or even considering the possibility, regardless if it was the best thing for the project. He struggles with delegation as it is so handing off "his" game to anyone else would be failure in his eyes.
What would you prefer? Fan parades around CIG and tossing flowers on a CR statue? Sometimes reality is not how you wanted it to be. You can call it negative or positive it just doesn't matter.
Here’s a breakdown on each source:
All of the sources quoted had their identity verified via Skype through comparison with known photos of who the sources claimed to be. Additionally, each quoted source had personal contact with Lizzy through the phone.
You must have some pretty strict requirements for 'proper' journalism?In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams
In absence of actual evidence we are all still left speculating.
So sending the claims to CR prior to publication, offering time for rebuttal and then including said rebuttal in the article somehow does not suffice?
The least you could do is read the article instead of making things up.
I would remind you that the aritcle was originally published without anything CIG said taken into account as it was sitting in their spam folder since 3 hours before deadline.
By what you think they would ask CR ok is this true? He says no and they write even thou we have 9 verified accounts what is going on, CR said it isn't, so no story here. That is just stupid.
On another point, I think it is really telling how CR was creating pixels of ships that can't work in space he created. That should really piss off a lot of folks.
Oh and if the writer has a friend he knows works at CIG it is verified and to say he lied is just wrong.
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
You don't scrap the story you write it neutrally giving both sides their say and let the audience make their decision based on the "facts" your present.
In this case of course we still have 0 Facts.
Another question is, why didn't these people just take them straight to court? Correct me if i'm wrong theres no mention of them taking Cr to court.Where they just gonna post this and just sit back?
Don't get me wrong, i'm no a fan just looking at the article as it's self. to me just seems not done very well. Just smearing someones name without any real proof /shrug