The Lack of Delivered Content

Talonsin

Realizer said:

  I'm not saying they are of equal caliber, I'm saying they show similar traits when it comes to how their companies and creative works are handled. Think what you want, the guy is just a game designer that I happen to respect in an industry full of weirdos that have gone over the edge at one point or another. 

You are so right!  Digital Anvil and Ascendant Pictures were handled just as well by Chris as LucasFilm and Apple have been by George and Steve.  The comparison is almost like magic they are so similar.  I wonder why more people dont see it???

laserit

Talonsin said:

Realizer said:

  I'm not saying they are of equal caliber, I'm saying they show similar traits when it comes to how their companies and creative works are handled. Think what you want, the guy is just a game designer that I happen to respect in an industry full of weirdos that have gone over the edge at one point or another. 

You are so right!  Digital Anvil and Ascendant Pictures were handled just as well by Chris as LucasFilm and Apple have been by George and Steve.  The comparison is almost like magic they are so similar.  I wonder why more people dont see it???

Didn't Bill Gates save Apple from bankruptcy once? Didn't Steve jobs lose apple once?

Anyways I think the point that was being made is that a prick, an asshole and/or a jerk can still be successful.

Realizer

laserit said:

Talonsin said:

Realizer said:

  I'm not saying they are of equal caliber, I'm saying they show similar traits when it comes to how their companies and creative works are handled. Think what you want, the guy is just a game designer that I happen to respect in an industry full of weirdos that have gone over the edge at one point or another. 

You are so right!  Digital Anvil and Ascendant Pictures were handled just as well by Chris as LucasFilm and Apple have been by George and Steve.  The comparison is almost like magic they are so similar.  I wonder why more people dont see it???

Didn't Bill Gates save Apple from bankruptcy once? Didn't Steve jobs lose apple once?

Anyways I think the point that was being made is that a prick, an asshole and/or a jerk can still be successful.

Exactly.. Also Lucas sold out to Disney, because paying the bills was getting tough after Jar-Jar.

filmoret

The way some people respond makes me think that there is a full time staff dedicated to trolling forums about how great SC is and how good Christ Roberts is.  The fanboism is strong in this thread.

Talonsin

laserit said:

Talonsin said:

Realizer said:

  I'm not saying they are of equal caliber, I'm saying they show similar traits when it comes to how their companies and creative works are handled. Think what you want, the guy is just a game designer that I happen to respect in an industry full of weirdos that have gone over the edge at one point or another. 

You are so right!  Digital Anvil and Ascendant Pictures were handled just as well by Chris as LucasFilm and Apple have been by George and Steve.  The comparison is almost like magic they are so similar.  I wonder why more people dont see it???

Didn't Bill Gates save Apple from bankruptcy once? Didn't Steve jobs lose apple once?

Anyways I think the point that was being made is that a prick, an asshole and/or a jerk can still be successful.

You guys are so right and just because LucasFilm and Apple have survived 20+ years and have come back from the brink to be hugely successful powerhouses while Chris Roberts companies have all gone under in just a few years does not mean a thing.   I am totally with you guys!

laserit

Talonsin said:

laserit said:

Talonsin said:

Realizer said:

  I'm not saying they are of equal caliber, I'm saying they show similar traits when it comes to how their companies and creative works are handled. Think what you want, the guy is just a game designer that I happen to respect in an industry full of weirdos that have gone over the edge at one point or another. 

You are so right!  Digital Anvil and Ascendant Pictures were handled just as well by Chris as LucasFilm and Apple have been by George and Steve.  The comparison is almost like magic they are so similar.  I wonder why more people dont see it???

Didn't Bill Gates save Apple from bankruptcy once? Didn't Steve jobs lose apple once?

Anyways I think the point that was being made is that a prick, an asshole and/or a jerk can still be successful.

You guys are so right and just because LucasFilm and Apple have survived 20+ years and have come back from the brink to be hugely successful powerhouses while Chris Roberts companies have all gone under in just a few years does not mean a thing.   I am totally with you guys!

What the heck is there to be right about?

Nobody is right or wrong about anything until a game is released or the whole damn thing goes down in flames.

filmoret

MisterZebub said:

filmoret said:

The way some people respond makes me think that there is a full time staff dedicated to trolling forums about how great SC is and how good Christ Roberts is.  The fanboism is strong in this thread.

The way some people respond makes me think that there is a full time staff dedicated to trolling forums about how much of a scam SC is and how criminal Christ Roberts is.  The anti-fanboism is strong in this thread.

yea its not easy to have a decent conversation when you got two different extremists concentrating on a subject.

BeansnBread

Realizer said:

BeansnBread said:

I think the following is what made me think of him as a terrible leader:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist

After I read that, I interpreted it as an almost adolescent response in a situation where, because he is so central to the company, he needed to act like an adult. I just don't see the personality traits you do at all and am honestly surprised when people hold that opinion. But, people hold opinions for various reasons and you are certainly entitled to yours.

 Emotions ran high in that letter indeed, it's also riddled with truth. Lack of eloquence aside, someone was gonna say it in one form or another. If you want to go back to Steve Jobs again, do some research on how difficult of a person he was to work with, yet there's no denying those traits helped him be the innovator he was. Same with Lucas another "difficult" person to work with according to those around him. Star Wars is badass though. 

 Again before you go saying I'm trying to make Roberts on the level of Jobs or Lucas, I'm not. Their accomplishments are far beyond what Roberts has done so far. That doesn't mean they can't share similar traits of personality.

 These aren't really tough concepts to understand in my opinion.  History is filled with random people who made themselves look silly when emotions ran high, yet they still managed to create something the world wanted.

If being difficult to work with is the primary personality trait that he shares with Jobs and Lucas, I can fully agree with you. 

Erillion

This thread approaches the Godwin's law threshold.

*** puts on helmet ***


Have fun

Arglebargle

Erillion said:

This thread approaches the Godwin's law threshold.

*** puts on helmet ***


Have fun

I was on a couple of local Bulletin Boards that Godwin  frequented ( this in the pre-internet days).   You did not want get into an argument with him.  He was absolutely  relentless.     Just like some posters here, ya know?  

CrazKanuk

MisterZebub said:

filmoret said:

MisterZebub said:

filmoret said:

The way some people respond makes me think that there is a full time staff dedicated to trolling forums about how great SC is and how good Christ Roberts is.  The fanboism is strong in this thread.

The way some people respond makes me think that there is a full time staff dedicated to trolling forums about how much of a scam SC is and how criminal Christ Roberts is.  The anti-fanboism is strong in this thread.

yea its not easy to have a decent conversation when you got two different extremists concentrating on a subject.

Well I'd like to think I'm not being extreme by demanding people back up their insinuations with actual factual evidence. I personally have no idea if SC is on track or a disaster, or any point in between, and I won't make the mistake of confusing my optimism that its probably doing as well as any MMO company can hope be, with cold hard facts, because I don't KNOW. I wish those in the extreme total optimism and total pessimism camps had that self awareness, as I feel both their behaviors are detrimental to the future health of this game.

So you're suggesting logic? On the Internet? Interesting idea, but it'll never work  

Arillix

I'll just leave these here for anyone willing to watch them.

CrazKanuk

MisterZebub said:

CrazKanuk said:

MisterZebub said:

filmoret said:

MisterZebub said:

filmoret said:

The way some people respond makes me think that there is a full time staff dedicated to trolling forums about how great SC is and how good Christ Roberts is.  The fanboism is strong in this thread.

The way some people respond makes me think that there is a full time staff dedicated to trolling forums about how much of a scam SC is and how criminal Christ Roberts is.  The anti-fanboism is strong in this thread.

yea its not easy to have a decent conversation when you got two different extremists concentrating on a subject.

Well I'd like to think I'm not being extreme by demanding people back up their insinuations with actual factual evidence. I personally have no idea if SC is on track or a disaster, or any point in between, and I won't make the mistake of confusing my optimism that its probably doing as well as any MMO company can hope be, with cold hard facts, because I don't KNOW. I wish those in the extreme total optimism and total pessimism camps had that self awareness, as I feel both their behaviors are detrimental to the future health of this game.

So you're suggesting logic? On the Internet? Interesting idea, but it'll never work  

OMG!! What the fuck was I thinking!? Well in my defense I was about half way down a bottle of Jameson when I posted that.

It's cool. I sometimes like to inject logic randomly into threads, too. Really throws people off because they're not expecting it. Honestly, I think that the logic movement online might be like the hipster movement everywhere else. Who knows, maybe Jameson is like the Starbucks of the logic movement?!?

Brenics

LOL that Alpha 2.0 video is nothing more than advertising the ships to sell. I just don't see how anyone can take anything said by these people as serious about the game they are making. They are only serious about selling ships. 

Xeno.phon

Brenics said:

LOL that Alpha 2.0 video is nothing more than advertising the ships to sell. I just don't see how anyone can take anything said by these people as serious about the game they are making. They are only serious about selling ships. 

And yet SWTOR spent 150m and took even longer and still delivered and crap shallow game that took 2+ years to fix, yet you seem to support them. So do you literally have no moral compass as well as no concept of how businesses operate, or are you just trolling SC to feel like you finally belong to something?

CrazKanuk

Brenics said:

LOL that Alpha 2.0 video is nothing more than advertising the ships to sell. I just don't see how anyone can take anything said by these people as serious about the game they are making. They are only serious about selling ships. 

So you had previously said:
"Answer me that and i will shut the heck up about this game, but please make sure it is a logical answer. Because I see no reason for any company to do this! This makes the whole project look like something just to spread wealth around!"

Your question was answered sufficiently, and logically, yet you continue on. If you need more, since one of your complaints with my example was the size of the example (Sony), then take a look at this article, written on a small business website. 

I don't realistically expect you to shut up about this game, as you said you would, but I would encourage you to seek to answer questions with the same standard of logic as you'd expect from someone else. It would really help the credibility of your arguments. 

Brenics

CrazKanuk said:

Brenics said:

LOL that Alpha 2.0 video is nothing more than advertising the ships to sell. I just don't see how anyone can take anything said by these people as serious about the game they are making. They are only serious about selling ships. 

So you had previously said:
"Answer me that and i will shut the heck up about this game, but please make sure it is a logical answer. Because I see no reason for any company to do this! This makes the whole project look like something just to spread wealth around!"

Your question was answered sufficiently, and logically, yet you continue on. If you need more, since one of your complaints with my example was the size of the example (Sony), then take a look at this article, written on a small business website. 

I don't realistically expect you to shut up about this game, as you said you would, but I would encourage you to seek to answer questions with the same standard of logic as you'd expect from someone else. It would really help the credibility of your arguments. 

You are kidding right? There is no way that was answered. In fact all that was said the company would have to respond to answer it. Which am pretty sure they won't because it is clear there is absolutely no reason to open all those companies with only one thing in mind! That is to move money around and make people rich. 

Also to compare this company to places like EA or Sony is just ridiculous. So to say it was answered, it clearly wasn't. 

Now back on topic and it will be interesting to when Alpha 2.0 is released. 

@MisterZebub I do love reading you're posts but do you really need to swear in everyone? 

Brenics

MisterZebub said:

Brenics said:

CrazKanuk said:

Brenics said:

LOL that Alpha 2.0 video is nothing more than advertising the ships to sell. I just don't see how anyone can take anything said by these people as serious about the game they are making. They are only serious about selling ships. 

So you had previously said:
"Answer me that and i will shut the heck up about this game, but please make sure it is a logical answer. Because I see no reason for any company to do this! This makes the whole project look like something just to spread wealth around!"

Your question was answered sufficiently, and logically, yet you continue on. If you need more, since one of your complaints with my example was the size of the example (Sony), then take a look at this article, written on a small business website. 

I don't realistically expect you to shut up about this game, as you said you would, but I would encourage you to seek to answer questions with the same standard of logic as you'd expect from someone else. It would really help the credibility of your arguments. 

You are kidding right? There is no way that was answered. In fact all that was said the company would have to respond to answer it. Which am pretty sure they won't because it is clear there is absolutely no reason to open all those companies with only one thing in mind! That is to move money around and make people rich. 

Also to compare this company to places like EA or Sony is just ridiculous. So to say it was answered, it clearly wasn't. 

Now back on topic and it will be interesting to when Alpha 2.0 is released. 

@MisterZebub I do love reading you're posts but do you really need to swear in everyone? 

The Stranger: There's just one thing, Dude.
The Dude: And what's that?
The Stranger: Do you have to use so many cuss words?
The Dude: What the fuck you talking about?
The Stranger: Okay, Dude. Have it your way.

ROFL. Classic!

CrazKanuk

Brenics said:

CrazKanuk said:

Brenics said:

LOL that Alpha 2.0 video is nothing more than advertising the ships to sell. I just don't see how anyone can take anything said by these people as serious about the game they are making. They are only serious about selling ships. 

So you had previously said:
"Answer me that and i will shut the heck up about this game, but please make sure it is a logical answer. Because I see no reason for any company to do this! This makes the whole project look like something just to spread wealth around!"

Your question was answered sufficiently, and logically, yet you continue on. If you need more, since one of your complaints with my example was the size of the example (Sony), then take a look at this article, written on a small business website. 

I don't realistically expect you to shut up about this game, as you said you would, but I would encourage you to seek to answer questions with the same standard of logic as you'd expect from someone else. It would really help the credibility of your arguments. 

You are kidding right? There is no way that was answered. In fact all that was said the company would have to respond to answer it. Which am pretty sure they won't because it is clear there is absolutely no reason to open all those companies with only one thing in mind! That is to move money around and make people rich. 

Also to compare this company to places like EA or Sony is just ridiculous. So to say it was answered, it clearly wasn't. 

Now back on topic and it will be interesting to when Alpha 2.0 is released. 

@MisterZebub I do love reading you're posts but do you really need to swear in everyone? 

How about Rockstar, Eidos, Square Enix, Epic Games ?

All companies in the same industry with multiple subsidiaries. In fact, Epic Games has over 100 fewer employees and, yet, still has a number of subsidiaries. 

Oh, and if you happened to read the article I linked in my previous post, there are plenty of reasons in there. If you need some additional reasons, which I have first hand knowledge about:
1) Grants - You can get government research or business grants from countries if you have an office in that country
2) Talent Management - You're able to draw from a larger talent pool if you provide offices in multiple major cities. 
3) Import/Export - Some countries will severely hamper your ability to import/export goods unless you have an office in that region.

I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons. Anyway, I don't think I can get any more logical for you. So choose to believe what you'd like. As mentioned before, if you're unable to accept truly logical, subjective arguments then it only hurts your own credibility. Answer honestly. You truly believe that they've gone through all of this trouble of creating 15 offices/companies, hired 270 people, created what content is out there right now, for the sole purpose of laundering what might amount to a couple million dollars? Explain the logic there and I'll stop posting. Except, I'm actually a man of my word, so if you can prove that I'll ACTUALLY stop posting about this game. 

Brenics

Stop comparing this company to others like yes even Epic, my GOD they made the unreal engine. Well why would the same people need to go in on each company other than have it setup so they get multiple pay checks from each? You can keep coming up with reasons but none of them really make any sense. To me it all looks like a elaborate scam with nothing to really show for it in the game. But they do make really nice videos. 

CrazKanuk

Brenics said:

Stop comparing this company to others like yes even Epic, my GOD they made the unreal engine. Well why would the same people need to go in on each company other than have it setup so they get multiple pay checks from each? You can keep coming up with reasons but none of them really make any sense. To me it all looks like a elaborate scam with nothing to really show for it in the game. But they do make really nice videos. 

Sort of like Deus Ex: Mankind Divided I guess. Eidos has many subsidiaries. They are creating a game on a proprietary engine, which is unproven. They also just delayed the game 6 months. Also, their original pre-order model was multi-tiered and structured so those who referred the most people would be the first to play the game, which seems even more nefarious than letting people spend their own money. 

Also, it should be noted that Epic had to resort to giving Unreal Engine away for free. If we're going to allow Epic to rest on their laurels of their past success then we might as well set up a Wing Commander alter somewhere around here and start the worshipping procession. Sorry, Epic hasn't done anything "worthy" as far as GAMES go in years. I can't wait for the new Unreal Tournament, but if you're going to put someone on a pedestal, could it maybe NOT be someone who went from developing epic games to someone developing an engine? Crap, that's almost more depressing than John Romero going from creating epic games to teaching (Sorry John). 

filmoret

Xeno.phon said:

Brenics said:

LOL that Alpha 2.0 video is nothing more than advertising the ships to sell. I just don't see how anyone can take anything said by these people as serious about the game they are making. They are only serious about selling ships. 

And yet SWTOR spent 150m and took even longer and still delivered and crap shallow game that took 2+ years to fix, yet you seem to support them. So do you literally have no moral compass as well as no concept of how businesses operate, or are you just trolling SC to feel like you finally belong to something?

I think you fail to see a logical person's point of view about this game.  You know that CR said they would be able to do this game with 20 million dollars.  Well that's what we are looking at when we see that they have raised over 91 million dollars.  How would you like if your friend went to the store to buy you a pepsi and you gave him 5$ and then when he gets back he says you owe him another 10$?  You would want a very good explanation for buying a 15$ pepsi before you went and handed over another 10$.  Now you see?  probably not

laserit

Brenics said:

Stop comparing this company to others like yes even Epic, my GOD they made the unreal engine. Well why would the same people need to go in on each company other than have it setup so they get multiple pay checks from each? You can keep coming up with reasons but none of them really make any sense. To me it all looks like a elaborate scam with nothing to really show for it in the game. But they do make really nice videos. 

Brenics, these kinds of remarks are born from ignorance.

There are many legitimate reasons, reasons that almost every company takes advantage of. I have one holding company whose sole purpose is to transfer my wealth to my children over the decades to legally avoid paying a 50% inheritance tax in my country when my day of reckoning comes.

The main purpose for these kinds of things is to save on taxes, legally. Accountants advise and set these kinds of things up. It's their trade, it's why they exist. It's why people like me pay for their services. Accountants aren't book keepers.

There nothing sinister about it.

Vada_G

Brenics said:

Stop comparing this company to others like yes even Epic, my GOD they made the unreal engine. Well why would the same people need to go in on each company other than have it setup so they get multiple pay checks from each? You can keep coming up with reasons but none of them really make any sense. To me it all looks like a elaborate scam with nothing to really show for it in the game. But they do make really nice videos. 

I think we've covered the matter of having multiple entities very well. Summary; Legal reasons, Liability reasons, Tax purposes, and many more.

I personally think the SC project is being mismanaged, but not due to this. If they were laundering money, it wouldn't be through one of these registered companies due to the easily followed paper trail. I don't think it's a scam as much as it's CR et. all getting in way over their heads on the business side of things and letting the project get out of hand (which tends to happen with entrepreneurs and idea folks). This has led to poor management of expectations and deadlines.

When people put CR in comparison with Lucas/Jobs etc., other men with big visions, they often fail to remember that those men were only part of the reason that those businesses succeeded. Every one of those visionaries was teamed up with a great C-Level team during it's founding years which is something I think CIG lacks.

i.e. Jobs wasn't the CEO of Apple until 1997, the company had been running for 20 years already. Lucas learned from his dealings at Fox, and had a decent board of directors for his companies, he showed a lot of wisdom when he founded his spin-off companies (ILM, THX, etc) by setting them up with independent management teams with him as a board chair to give them direction and creative vision.

I hope they produce a great product, as I'd love to play in a PU type space game like this. I also hope they produce a great product as it can have very big ramifications for crowd-funding future games, and could be a determining factor on whether crowd-funding games becomes a 'bubble' industry (imo, formed in my own discussions with economists/publishers/etc.).

I don't give any credence to the videos that they provide. A tech/demo video of the FPS portion was released well over a year ago, and it was scrapped and went back to the drawing board. I was relieved when the Arena Commander was released but I agree that it's time that they put something more in the hands of their customers.

CrazKanuk

filmoret said:

Xeno.phon said:

Brenics said:

LOL that Alpha 2.0 video is nothing more than advertising the ships to sell. I just don't see how anyone can take anything said by these people as serious about the game they are making. They are only serious about selling ships. 

And yet SWTOR spent 150m and took even longer and still delivered and crap shallow game that took 2+ years to fix, yet you seem to support them. So do you literally have no moral compass as well as no concept of how businesses operate, or are you just trolling SC to feel like you finally belong to something?

I think you fail to see a logical person's point of view about this game.  You know that CR said they would be able to do this game with 20 million dollars.  Well that's what we are looking at when we see that they have raised over 91 million dollars.  How would you like if your friend went to the store to buy you a pepsi and you gave him 5$ and then when he gets back he says you owe him another 10$?  You would want a very good explanation for buying a 15$ pepsi before you went and handed over another 10$.  Now you see?  probably not

Funny, Chris Roberts hasn't asked me for any more money...... 

Just sayin'