The Lack of Delivered Content

Erillion

filmoret said:

 You know that CR said they would be able to do this game with 20 million dollars.

@filmoret ;
You know that he said that about his initial vision at the start of Kickstarter, do you not ?! A game of MUCH smaller scope than the current project. That was back in October 2012.

Back then he wanted to get some 500 k$ (or a bit more) via crowdfunding to show investors that there is interest ... and the rest of the 20ish M$ he wanted to get from investors.

That is NOT the game we are talking about here now. The game he and his team are creating now can NOT be made for 20 M$.

Quoting ANY numbers or dates from October 2012 is futile. They are obsolete. As in :  USELESS !

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@CrazKanuk

Thank you for that link. Very interesting. Especially this part:

"Reporting and Disclosure Issues

The parent company can choose which areas of its business should be public and which should be private. Not all business operations are suitable for public investment and disclosure requirements. For example, support functions are hard to quantify, so investors may not get excited enough to buy stock. The company may also want to avoid Securities and Exchange Commission reporting for certain segments of the business, especially when starting a new product line. Keeping these activities in a privately held subsidiary makes it more difficult for competitors to uncover information you are not ready to release yet."

Have fun

filmoret

@Erillion What exactly did they change that made it take so much longer?  I thought he was making a space sim mmo and well isn't that what hes still making?

Erillion

CIG is making Squadron 42 three times larger than planned, mission wise (three parts, every single part larger than a complete Wing Commander game). The Persistent Universe will have 100+ systems and more will be added using a newly developed procedural generation system. They are using pretty impressive mocap and performance capturing systems now and - yes - well known and loved actors. The game mechanics are much more advanced than previously planned (fusion of first and third person view, enhanced Cry-Engine).....etc. etc. (see official homepage)

Yes, its still a space sim and no, it is not nor ever was an MMO  (its an instanced multiplayer game).

But its much larger, more ambitious and more complex than the game that was initially  planned for 20ish M$.


Have fun

filmoret

Erillion said:

CIG is making Squadron 42 three times larger than planned, mission wise (three parts, every single part larger than a complete Wing Commander game). The Persistent Universe will have 100+ systems and more will be added using a newly developed procedural generation system. They are using pretty impressive mocap and performance capturing systems now and - yes - well known and loved actors. The game mechanics are much more advanced than previously planned (fusion of first and third person view, enhanced Cry-Engine).....etc. etc. (see official homepage)

Yes, its still a space sim and no, it is not nor ever was an MMO  (its an instanced multiplayer game).

But its much larger, more ambitious and more complex than the game that was initially  planned for 20ish M$.


Have fun

A persistent universe and some ships that take over 20 players just to fly it.  This wont be a mmo?  Now I'm really confused.

laxie

Erillion said:

CIG is making Squadron 42 three times larger than planned, mission wise (three parts, every single part larger than a complete Wing Commander game). The Persistent Universe will have 100+ systems and more will be added using a newly developed procedural generation system. They are using pretty impressive mocap and performance capturing systems now and - yes - well known and loved actors. The game mechanics are much more advanced than previously planned (fusion of first and third person view, enhanced Cry-Engine).....etc. etc. (see official homepage)

Yes, its still a space sim and no, it is not nor ever was an MMO  (its an instanced multiplayer game).

But its much larger, more ambitious and more complex than the game that was initially  planned for 20ish M$.


Have fun

I just really hope they start delivering more gameplay features. They have delivered very little in terms of new gameplay over the last year. Hopefully this was due to the blockers behind the scenes as they are saying (and they can start delivering visible gameplay now).

If the 2.0 update comes with a simple mission system, AI ships spawning in open space and some basic currency, I can see it going somewhere. That is allegedly coming in 2.0, but we didn't see any of it demonstrated yet.

If 2.0 does not offer these features (perhaps they get delayed again), I will likely request a refund, as I don't see how the project is going to deliver any sort of gameplay within a reasonable timeframe.

CIG is definitely working on something. The ships are very detailed, flight model is quite fun and walking around the hangar (or ArcCorp) is nice. I'd really love some sort of persistent gameplay though, making currency, spending it in shops, running missions. So far I haven't seen any indication of this being implemented even on their internal servers.

laxie

filmoret said:

A persistent universe and some ships that take over 20 players just to fly it.  This wont be a mmo?  Now I'm really confused.

Because everything is so detailed, you can't really have masses of players on one screen at a time. It would be impossible to render it.

So it is planned to be a MMO in the sense that your actions influence the world around you. You can play with others, explore a shared universe, interact with players.

It is also heavily instanced. You will never be playing with masses of players at once. There may be 100 different versions of the map you are in, with different players in each. In that way some may see it as not an MMO, but perhaps a multiplayer game with rich social features.

Arglebargle

Erillion said:

CIG is making Squadron 42 three times larger than planned, mission wise (three parts, every single part larger than a complete Wing Commander game). The Persistent Universe will have 100+ systems and more will be added using a newly developed procedural generation system. They are using pretty impressive mocap and performance capturing systems now and - yes - well known and loved actors. The game mechanics are much more advanced than previously planned (fusion of first and third person view, enhanced Cry-Engine).....etc. etc. (see official homepage)

Yes, its still a space sim and no, it is not nor ever was an MMO  (its an instanced multiplayer game).

But its much larger, more ambitious and more complex than the game that was initially  planned for 20ish M$.


Have fun

Yep, wonder what the cost of that vaunted mocap that captures the blood flow in the actors ended up being?   Because that so makes or breaks a space game.   Really seems like one of those classic Chris Roberts fixations that spend money, waste time, and don't really add to the game.  Better hope Erin can pull it out.....

And isn't it hard to deny feature creep while writing those paragraphs above?  Heard in passing that they were having trouble getting even 16 folks into an instance.   Getting to the goal of 50 is probably going to be a serious chore.   For the Squadron 42 release, they don't have to worry about the persistent universe players, but they do have to have the spaceflight, FPS, and planet parts working. 

And the really lifelike blood flow, you know!

filmoret

laxie said:

filmoret said:

A persistent universe and some ships that take over 20 players just to fly it.  This wont be a mmo?  Now I'm really confused.

Because everything is so detailed, you can't really have masses of players on one screen at a time. It would be impossible to render it.

So it is planned to be a MMO in the sense that your actions influence the world around you. You can play with others, explore a shared universe, interact with players.

It is also heavily instanced. You will never be playing with masses of players at once. There may be 100 different versions of the map you are in, with different players in each. In that way some may see it as not an MMO, but perhaps a multiplayer game with rich social features.

Hmm they could just spread them out like Eve and have them linked together through jumpgates or the likes.  Just doesn't make sense to bring a small universe of multiple instances instead of a large universe of one instance.  It will make the same demand of the game and give the feel that they were looking for in a mmo.  Because lets face it is the mmo features that makes this game to be desired.  I don't think we are looking for another Starfighter game.  We are looking for Eve 2.0

Xeno.phon

filmoret said:

Xeno.phon said:

Brenics said:

LOL that Alpha 2.0 video is nothing more than advertising the ships to sell. I just don't see how anyone can take anything said by these people as serious about the game they are making. They are only serious about selling ships. 

And yet SWTOR spent 150m and took even longer and still delivered and crap shallow game that took 2+ years to fix, yet you seem to support them. So do you literally have no moral compass as well as no concept of how businesses operate, or are you just trolling SC to feel like you finally belong to something?

I think you fail to see a logical person's point of view about this game.  You know that CR said they would be able to do this game with 20 million dollars.  Well that's what we are looking at when we see that they have raised over 91 million dollars.  How would you like if your friend went to the store to buy you a pepsi and you gave him 5$ and then when he gets back he says you owe him another 10$?  You would want a very good explanation for buying a 15$ pepsi before you went and handed over another 10$.  Now you see?  probably not

He hasnt asked me for more money for one, nor has he made me buy anything after my KS pledge. Also your analogy is invalid seeing as they stated the expansion of the game concept after having such a successful campaign.

So really your analogy should be, It's like pre purchasing a car and then being contacted by the manufacturer to be told it will be upgraded free of charge before delivery.

fyerwall

filmoret said:

laxie said:

filmoret said:

A persistent universe and some ships that take over 20 players just to fly it.  This wont be a mmo?  Now I'm really confused.

Because everything is so detailed, you can't really have masses of players on one screen at a time. It would be impossible to render it.

So it is planned to be a MMO in the sense that your actions influence the world around you. You can play with others, explore a shared universe, interact with players.

It is also heavily instanced. You will never be playing with masses of players at once. There may be 100 different versions of the map you are in, with different players in each. In that way some may see it as not an MMO, but perhaps a multiplayer game with rich social features.

Hmm they could just spread them out like Eve and have them linked together through jumpgates or the likes.  Just doesn't make sense to bring a small universe of multiple instances instead of a large universe of one instance.  It will make the same demand of the game and give the feel that they were looking for in a mmo.  Because lets face it is the mmo features that makes this game to be desired.  I don't think we are looking for another Starfighter game.  We are looking for Eve 2.0

Most of the backers of the project were looking for the new Wing Commander game, not a new Eve. These were people who loved the WC series and when they saw that Roberts was pitching it jumped on board.

Eve already exists, and not many people talk about wanting a new version of the game as they are happy playing the original.

Turrican187

Erillion said:

CIG is making Squadron 42 three times larger than planned, mission wise (three parts, every single part larger than a complete Wing Commander game). The Persistent Universe will have 100+ systems and more will be added using a newly developed procedural generation system. They are using pretty impressive mocap and performance capturing systems now and - yes - well known and loved actors. The game mechanics are much more advanced than previously planned (fusion of first and third person view, enhanced Cry-Engine).....etc. etc. (see official homepage)

Yes, its still a space sim and no, it is not nor ever was an MMO  (its an instanced multiplayer game).

But its much larger, more ambitious and more complex than the game that was initially  planned for 20ish M$.


Have fun

weren´t these Stretch Goals which are not meant to delay the project regarding to CR?

Erillion

Delays can and have happened due to technical reasons. Read the detailed weekly and monthly reports on the official homepage.


Have fun

HabitualFrogStomp

Game is bad, why do you want to play this bad game?

Elsabolts

Same reason you like to stomp on Frogs I guess ?

filmoret

Xeno.phon said:

filmoret said:

Xeno.phon said:

Brenics said:

LOL that Alpha 2.0 video is nothing more than advertising the ships to sell. I just don't see how anyone can take anything said by these people as serious about the game they are making. They are only serious about selling ships. 

And yet SWTOR spent 150m and took even longer and still delivered and crap shallow game that took 2+ years to fix, yet you seem to support them. So do you literally have no moral compass as well as no concept of how businesses operate, or are you just trolling SC to feel like you finally belong to something?

I think you fail to see a logical person's point of view about this game.  You know that CR said they would be able to do this game with 20 million dollars.  Well that's what we are looking at when we see that they have raised over 91 million dollars.  How would you like if your friend went to the store to buy you a pepsi and you gave him 5$ and then when he gets back he says you owe him another 10$?  You would want a very good explanation for buying a 15$ pepsi before you went and handed over another 10$.  Now you see?  probably not

He hasnt asked me for more money for one, nor has he made me buy anything after my KS pledge. Also your analogy is invalid seeing as they stated the expansion of the game concept after having such a successful campaign.

So really your analogy should be, It's like pre purchasing a car and then being contacted by the manufacturer to be told it will be upgraded free of charge before delivery.

Free of charge?  Dude what the world?  It is "upgraded" for 4x the original cost.  He hasn't asked for more money since the last ship they sold.  Which was what a few months ago?  How can you honestly say this?  I've seen these kinds of games attempted and failed because they required too many players or too much effort just to drive a ship.  If this isn't a mmo it will fail I assure you because its being built around the fact that massive amount of players will be needed just to fight one battle.

TroubleHunter

I paid 70$ for a ship, but it was just the initial excitement... now i couldn't care less about this game. We all know it's going to flop.

And to people fiercely defending this game, you might not want to keep your hopes that high, disappointment in the mmo world hits hard.

Erillion

>>> We all know it's going to flop.>>>

No we do not.

>>>you might not want to keep your hopes that high>>>

My expectations are realistic. It is clear that with over a million fans that game simply cannot be 100 % suitable for 100 % of the people .. as some of their expectations are mutually exclusive. So yes, some will bitch and moan ... this is inevitable.  Not everything will be 100 % fleshed out at launch. Not everything will be 100 % properly balanced at launch. But the more bugs WE the backer-testers find and report in alpha and beta during playtesting, the better.


Have fun

TheYear1500

Erillion said:

>>> We all know it's going to flop.>>>

No we do not.

>>>you might not want to keep your hopes that high>>>

My expectations are realistic. It is clear that with over a million fans that game simply cannot be 100 % suitable for 100 % of the people .. as some of their expectations are mutually exclusive. So yes, some will bitch and moan ... this is inevitable.  Not everything will be 100 % fleshed out at launch. Not everything will be 100 % properly balanced at launch. But the more bugs WE the backer-testers find and report in alpha and beta during playtesting, the better.


Have fun

Why do you keep spreading this propaganda?  You know better, they don't have a million fans, they have sold 792k accounts (with multiple people owning more then one account).  That one million are just people that made accounts on the website, as CIG has given out free week codes multiple times, its a meaningless number.

No idea how your expectations are realistic when you can't even be realistic with facts.   

Erillion

TheYear1500 said:

Why do you keep spreading this propaganda?  You know better, they don't have a million fans, they have sold 792k accounts (with multiple people owning more then one account).  That one million are just people that made accounts on the website, as CIG has given out free week codes multiple times, its a meaningless number.

No idea how your expectations are realistic when you can't even be realistic with facts.   

Someone who makes an registered account on a gaming webpage is NOT a fan ? Interesting. Why would they do that instead ? Masochistic pleasure ?

I said FANS, not backers. Try to understand the difference.

At the time of writing:
They have 792.022 pledge accounts that paid money (aka "backers"). And yes, some people have multiple accounts - judging by the people i know (a few dozen SC fans)  about 1/3 of them, so my guestimate is about half a million individuals supporting the project.

They have 1.046.471 active "Star Citizens" with a registered account on the official homepage. What i consider a fan.

Feel free to show me where i get the facts wrong.


Have fun

Brenics

During that live feed yesterday when I started watching it there was a little under 20k watching it. After the first hour that went down to around 14k and never really went back up after that. So if like you say they have 1m fans, where the heck were they yesterday? 

Personally after watching yesterday this does seem like more of a laundering scheme than any real game company. 

Azoth

Brenics said:

During that live feed yesterday when I started watching it there was a little under 20k watching it. After the first hour that went down to around 14k and never really went back up after that. So if like you say they have 1m fans, where the heck were they yesterday? 

Personally after watching yesterday this does seem like more of a laundering scheme than any real game company. 

I am a fan, I don't bother with the shows tho. I tried arena commander a couple times. Now I am just patiently waiting for the finished game, the same way I am waiting for a couple other games.

Did you really watch a 3 hours show for a game you don't even believe will ever happen ? That's kinda pathetic, I now feel sorry for you.

Erillion

Brenics said:

So if like you say they have 1m fans, where the heck were they yesterday? 

Watch the stored stream on Youtube on the next day ?

Watch the "Best of..." parts in separate Youtube videos, because its more time efficient ?
(see below)


Have fun

TroubleHunter

Erillion said:

TheYear1500 said:

Why do you keep spreading this propaganda?  You know better, they don't have a million fans, they have sold 792k accounts (with multiple people owning more then one account).  That one million are just people that made accounts on the website, as CIG has given out free week codes multiple times, its a meaningless number.

No idea how your expectations are realistic when you can't even be realistic with facts.   

Someone who makes an registered account on a gaming webpage is NOT a fan ? Interesting. Why would they do that instead ? Masochistic pleasure ?

I said FANS, not backers. Try to understand the difference.

At the time of writing:
They have 792.022 pledge accounts that paid money (aka "backers"). And yes, some people have multiple accounts - judging by the people i know (a few dozen SC fans)  about 1/3 of them, so my guestimate is about half a million individuals supporting the project.

They have 1.046.471 active "Star Citizens" with a registered account on the official homepage. What i consider a fan.

Feel free to show me where i get the facts wrong.


Have fun

"1/3 of the backers have a second account"

hahaha gotta love invented data

Erillion

Eternio said:

"1/3 of the backers have a second account"

hahaha gotta love invented data

That is not invented data. Its correct in the subset of backers personally known to me. It represents only my personal observation and personal estimate (see post above:  ".....so my guestimate is ...." ).


Have fun

Brenics

Azoth said:

Brenics said:

During that live feed yesterday when I started watching it there was a little under 20k watching it. After the first hour that went down to around 14k and never really went back up after that. So if like you say they have 1m fans, where the heck were they yesterday? 

Personally after watching yesterday this does seem like more of a laundering scheme than any real game company. 

I am a fan, I don't bother with the shows tho. I tried arena commander a couple times. Now I am just patiently waiting for the finished game, the same way I am waiting for a couple other games.

Did you really watch a 3 hours show for a game you don't even believe will ever happen ? That's kinda pathetic, I now feel sorry for you.

Yep I watched it to see if it could change my mind on how I perceive the game. After watching Roberts body language it only reinforced my thinking on this so called game. 

It is funny how you tell us to watch and learn about the game. Then when we do we are attacked for watching. Maybe you and people like you should be watching a little more and see what is actually being said and shown. 27 minutes during an over 3 hour live show on 2.0. you don't seem that is kind of strange when this is all about a game that is clearly not even in alpha which they say it is.

I really do believe if this was any other game CR would of been run out of town by now. With Roberts I just don't understand exactly what talent you see in him. Why he gets all these excuses for what he has been doing. It is like you guys look at him as a GOD in game making when he clearly isn't. It has always been the people working around him that created the games and yes that includes WC!