The Lack of Delivered Content

Burntvet

Gdemami said:

laserit said:

Question:

So... are the funds raised by Kickstarter's / Crowdfunding taxed? are they considered profit? is it tax free moola?

Fundraised money are gifts, which aren't considered as taxable income.

Not this again...

/shudder

laserit

SlothnChunk said:

laserit said:

Question:

So... are the funds raised by Kickstarter's / Crowdfunding taxed? are they considered profit? is it tax free moola?

Not taxed because nothing taxable or legal exists as its merely conceptual ideas and mutual goals via individuals providing patronage.

I believe it is a little more complicated than that. Sounds like a loophole a planet could fly through.

laserit

Gdemami said:

laserit said:

Question:

So... are the funds raised by Kickstarter's / Crowdfunding taxed? are they considered profit? is it tax free moola?

Fundraised money are gifts, which aren't considered as taxable income.

Gifts are taxable... If you know a way around this, I'm sure the Mob would like to talk to you.

Erillion

On and on and on ....



Have fun

Phaserlight

SlothnChunk said:

Phaserlight said:

SlothnChunk said:

Phaserlight said:

SlothnChunk said:

Phaserlight said:

SlothnChunk said:

MisterZebub said:

You do know an IPO issues ownership or equity while crowdfunding is merely patronage?  So there is basically nothing in common legally between the two (other than what you create in your head).

Wait, wait... are you claiming that you don't "own" the ships you purchase?  That's not according to vernacular ("I buy pixel boats" says $30k SC guy).

I find that there's a lot of commonality between what SC is doing and what companies like Apple or Facebook that offer stock to the public do.  Here instead of owning part of the company you are owning digital goods to be delivered on a future date.  If the company does well, that will be worth a lot, if the company does poorly, it may not be worth much.  Certainly they are not the same, but to state that there is "nothing in common legally" strikes me as willfully missing the point.

Did you really just ask me if spending money on digital pixels for something in development and not ready for release to the public is 'ownership'?

Let me just say, good luck legally with that one if you ever tried to sue over 'ownership'.  I think a judge would look at you like you are a total idiot and tell you to leave his courtroom.

If something isn't legally protected as 'ownership' then it simply isn't.  To state otherwise is a delusion not based in fact.

Hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Look, I'm not trying to get into a legal debate with you.  I am not a lawyer.  However, I know there is a precedent of people being sued over virtual goods.  Virtual goods are still property.  I recommend checking it out.

Legal goods being bought in a store are one thing.  Giving money towards something that isn't available for purchase (and may never be) as it's in development is another.

I know for a fact arguing ownership after providing patronage is impossible due to no laws stating such.  And I highly doubt government will get involved in the future due to the nature of patronage.  How would you police and regulate money given towards an idea or future product (not something in actual existence or available for the general public)?

My answer is there is a reason patronage has been around since the Romans and it goes unregulated and policed.  It's because funding ideas and potential is too subjective to start enforcing the results.  All the one being sponsored would legally have to prove is if they tried and didn't pocket or blow 100% of the funds.

Kickstarter/crowdfunding/patronage is a double-edged sword; full freedom with no (legal) strings for a new concept or creative project results in no guarantees.  That's the nature of the beast.

I don't agree, and frankly, I find your stance a bit absurd.

People pre-order games while they are still in development, and it's considered a purchase (being in development isn't mutually exclusive with being available for purchase).

Furthermore, this is a store.  It's presented as such.  You'd have to be willfully blind to call it anything but.  It even asks at the top "please select your Country of residence so that we can display the appropriate taxes, if applicable."  Is that just for show?

CIG/RIS was co-founded by a lawyer, and is operating in a no-man's land that is little more than a loophole.  Freyermuth is well aware of this.  In choosing to set up operations the way they did their timing was superb.  The lengths to which you are going to convince me that You Are Not Making A Purchase (Romans? really?) based on legal grounds underlies the absurdity of the claim.

There's a saying: if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

Burntvet

Phaserlight said:

SlothnChunk said:

Phaserlight said:

SlothnChunk said:

Phaserlight said:

SlothnChunk said:

Phaserlight said:

SlothnChunk said:

MisterZebub said:

You do know an IPO issues ownership or equity while crowdfunding is merely patronage?  So there is basically nothing in common legally between the two (other than what you create in your head).

Wait, wait... are you claiming that you don't "own" the ships you purchase?  That's not according to vernacular ("I buy pixel boats" says $30k SC guy).

I find that there's a lot of commonality between what SC is doing and what companies like Apple or Facebook that offer stock to the public do.  Here instead of owning part of the company you are owning digital goods to be delivered on a future date.  If the company does well, that will be worth a lot, if the company does poorly, it may not be worth much.  Certainly they are not the same, but to state that there is "nothing in common legally" strikes me as willfully missing the point.

Did you really just ask me if spending money on digital pixels for something in development and not ready for release to the public is 'ownership'?

Let me just say, good luck legally with that one if you ever tried to sue over 'ownership'.  I think a judge would look at you like you are a total idiot and tell you to leave his courtroom.

If something isn't legally protected as 'ownership' then it simply isn't.  To state otherwise is a delusion not based in fact.

Hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Look, I'm not trying to get into a legal debate with you.  I am not a lawyer.  However, I know there is a precedent of people being sued over virtual goods.  Virtual goods are still property.  I recommend checking it out.

Legal goods being bought in a store are one thing.  Giving money towards something that isn't available for purchase (and may never be) as it's in development is another.

I know for a fact arguing ownership after providing patronage is impossible due to no laws stating such.  And I highly doubt government will get involved in the future due to the nature of patronage.  How would you police and regulate money given towards an idea or future product (not something in actual existence or available for the general public)?

My answer is there is a reason patronage has been around since the Romans and it goes unregulated and policed.  It's because funding ideas and potential is too subjective to start enforcing the results.  All the one being sponsored would legally have to prove is if they tried and didn't pocket or blow 100% of the funds.

Kickstarter/crowdfunding/patronage is a double-edged sword; full freedom with no (legal) strings for a new concept or creative project results in no guarantees.  That's the nature of the beast.

I don't agree, and frankly, I find your stance a bit absurd.

People pre-order games while they are still in development, and it's considered a purchase (being in development isn't mutually exclusive with being available for purchase).

Furthermore, this is a store.  It's presented as such.  You'd have to be willfully blind to call it anything but.  It even asks at the top "please select your Country of residence so that we can display the appropriate taxes, if applicable."  Is that just for show?

CIG/RIS was co-founded by a lawyer, and is operating in a no-man's land that is little more than a loophole.  Freyermuth is well aware of this.  In choosing to set up operations the way they did their timing was superb.  The lengths to which you are going to convince me that You Are Not Making A Purchase (Romans? really?) based on legal grounds underlies the absurdity of the claim.

There's a saying: if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

Which is exactly what the courts in WA State and other places have been starting to say.

Specifically in regards to crowdfunded stuff: if it looks like a pre-order, and functions exactly the same as a pre-order, it does not matter if you call it "green cheese", it is still a pre-order.

And if it is a pre-order, certain consumer rights can attach.

That is what the courts have said, and frankly, theirs is the only opinion that matters.

Erillion

Phaserlight said:

There's a saying: if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

.... it has revolutionized our understanding of ocean currents...

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/wilderness-resources/stories/what-can-28000-rubber-duckies-lost-at-sea-teach-us-about




We have to do that in Star Citizen .... revolutionary way to find new Jump Points.


Have fun

Gdemami

laserit said:

Gifts are taxable... If you know a way around this, I'm sure the Mob would like to talk to you.

Erm no. Gifts aren't taxable, the grey area is whether fundraised money will be considered a gift or taxable income.

I guess it will depend on case by case basis.

laserit

Gdemami said:

laserit said:

Gifts are taxable... If you know a way around this, I'm sure the Mob would like to talk to you.

Erm no. Gifts aren't taxable, the grey area is whether fundraised money will be considered a gift or income.

I guess it depend on case by case basis.

So I could gift you a million bucks and you wouldn't have to declare it on your income.

You would receive 1 million dollars tax free? 

BeansnBread

In the US, you can gift up to like 14K before being taxed.

Gdemami

laserit said:

So I could gift you a million bucks and you wouldn't have to declare it on your income.

You would receive 1 million dollars tax free?

As I said, it will depend.

If you are fundrising for your medical care or starting a business will likely be treated differently.


Fundrising is very grey area with little support in law.

Cryptor

I have been a huge fan of this project from when before it was announced on Kickstarter.  I had a fairly significant amount of money (to me) pledged and what I see and hear about how the studios and the company is run made me request a refund.  It took few weeks but I got it.  I honestly don't believe that SC will ever come out the way things are run now.

Herase

Cryptor said:

I have been a huge fan of this project from when before it was announced on Kickstarter.  I had a fairly significant amount of money (to me) pledged and what I see and hear about how the studios and the company is run made me request a refund.  It took few weeks but I got it.  I honestly don't believe that SC will ever come out the way things are run now.

What made you feel the game wont come out as it is? I'm actually genuinely interested. It will be nice to hear an opinion of someone who actually has been part of the community and not parroting what they heard from randoms of the net.  

Asbo

laxie said:

First of all, let me say this is not a bashing on SC thread. There is a lot we don't know, lot we can't answer. At the same time, I am genuinely interested what you make of this.

About 1.5 years ago, Arena Commander was released. I think quite a bit of content was delivered then. We could finally fly around, fight AI, fight each other. You could follow the development, clearly see they have been putting a lot of work into making this happen. Since then, little significant content has been added into the playable game though. What's more, the deadlines they have been proposing have been missed completely.

I know there supposedly is a lot of content coming soon. Perhaps that is the case (I don't know). What I do know is that many of the systems that were claimed to be "1-2 months away" are now still being concepted out (and still 1-2 months away). I am talking about data persistence and shopping (which was said to be on the next months schedule in a recent dev blog), even though this was "1 month away" in Spring. Mutli-crew stations, which were recently said to be in the concept stage, though they were 1-2 months away for release in the Summer.

I am not saying it is a scam. I like the vision and think Arena Commander is nice. Clearly they have a lot of employees working on something.
But what is incomprehensible to me, is the lack of delivered stuff (and the greatly misestimated dates). How can you say planet shopping is coming in 1 month? To make that statement, you need to be fairly confident. You know you have X amount of relevant work done, X people assigned to the task - you deduce that with it being in the works and X amount of progress, it is 1 month away.
Then fast forward a year later, it is now coming in 1-2 months?



I just can't understand this. I was recently part of a team planning an event for 2000 guests. We said each visitor would get a 60 page magazine. We had about 6 months to do this task. So we broke down the plan, had each page laid out. When it was nearly done, we gave the company an estimate ("Ok, we have most pages done. We spoke to the printer, we can give you a draft copy in 2 weeks".)

Now imagine they ask me 3 months later (this is 6x the time I said I needed). I tell them it is coming in 1-2 weeks. So they ask me another 3 months later (6x the time from the second estimate), I tell them the pages are in concept stage and it is coming in 4 weeks. This scenario just doesn't make sense to me.

Was I not saying the truth when I gave them the original estimate? Perhaps I didn't have a magazine at all and was hoping I could wing it in 2 weeks. Or did I make several magazines that I trashed each time, thinking I could do better? More importantly, what have I been working on the past 6 months? I was clearly assigned to do the magazine, saying I am working on it the whole time (that it is 1-2 weeks away). Yet, there is no magazine and I am saying it is now 4 weeks away, in the concept stage. Was I working on something else than the magazine?



Video game development is a fluid, ever changing process. They are perhaps working on the foundations to make other stuff happen. I get that.
But 3 years into the development, you say feature A is coming in 1 month, you are working on it. 1 year later, said feature A is coming in 2 months.

What is your take on this?

Yawn....!!!!

TheYear1500

sipu said:

I understand RSI. Releasing something way too early (buggy, unfinished, empty) would have more destructive effects. I can see those complaints - "Is it this I pledged for 1000 bucks?". Patience is a key here. Chris is taking different route than Frontier, which delivers brand new features every patch to make game complete.

RSI already did that with AC, in fact RSI has released way to early, buggy, unfinished and empty on all their releases.  

Broken.Arrow

pingo said:

Broken.Arrow said:

I see a lot of jokers on this game's forums ask this cliched question,"Do you know how long it takes to make a game?"


For the sake of argument, lets say None of us here know anything about game development. 


But sadly, going by those standards CR knows less than the hypothetical clueless plebs, since he has been dropping multiple release dates and constantly failing to uphold them left, right and center. Why dont all those jokers go ask CR if he knows how long it takes to develop a game eh?



But long story short, CIG is using the perpetual-hype paradigm to keep the crowdfunding afloat. CIG will drop no long term date (they have been saying that Everything is just around the corner or just weeks away or only one more year, right from 2014) to keep the rabid backers on tenterhooks. If the backers are thrown a bone with short term dates, regardless of if they can actually upload said date with any release whatsoever, they can be fooled into opening their wallets just a little more, just a few more times. 

But they are playing with fire. Rather than drive the crowdfunding plank of actual content, they are driving it forward on bogus dates, fancy jpeg sales, lofty promises and a lot of hot gas spewing from CR's trap. If by any chance they fail to deliver the most awesome space sim-mmo-rpg-fps-religion ever made, these very backers will most likely eat them alive. 

Maybe he got two or three years tops, before the mob starts demanding for someone's head.

I'm pretty sure keeping development a float every single day bleeds them more dry than crowdfunding coming in. What you say makes no sense. This idea that you see some conspiracy in them not meeting deadlines, when that is the de-facto standard in the industry tells me that you don't know much about working in a software development environment. 

It feels like this to you, because unlike other normal non-crowdfunded games you know the internal deadlines and milestones. You don't do that for regular games. On top of everything, this game is so popular the goal posts keep changing and the keep getting more funded for more and more. That is an unusual situation. Normally you work until your budget is out, or you ask for an extension or more money, or you have to release. 
The whole idea with this crowdfunding is that they can make a game a normal publisher would never fund because the scope and ambition of it is out of this world. 


How this went over your head as you have descended into conspiracy theory land is beyond me. Do you have any idea of what it cost to keep up development for an entire studio, like the size of Star Citizens for one day? Do you have any idea how much licensed middle-ware tools cost? 
This idea that they are going to be rich over keeping a crowdfunding alive is so incredible stupid. I hope you one day get to work on a 100+ team so you can see the ignorance in your own conclusions. Jesus christ. 


They would never have done all these things or made all these systems had they planned a bait-and-switch. get real. They've already bled through a lot of their budget. If the game fails or doesn't become a success, the developers and CR won't get anything out of it. 

For someone so eager to shout from his high horse, you severely lack any reading skills. Did you even read my post before rambling on about supposed "getting rich schemes"?


I used the words "keep the crowdfunding afloat". Which simply implies to keep the company alive, since right now they are going by solely on donations/pledges/backing/whatever you call it, and not on some big wig footing the costs (at least as far as they have disclosed). Which means paying out the salaries of all their employees, keeping their offices up and running, licensing fees if any and everything else in between. Do you disagree with that?


But obviously what went over your head was the fact that, for all the dumping CR does on publishers, he is faring worse than any Suit on the decisions making end. To push the goal posts back and back while constantly dropping release dates and constantly failing to uphold them...and worse yet, going well and beyond the boundaries of propriety by ninja editing their TOS to suit they delays is beyond unscrupulous.
And any software house worth its salt wouldnt plan to create " Project A" and when the idea generates massive windfall, fail to create " Project A" in its stipulated time period even with all the resources at its disposal, but instead go buck crazy and start Projects B, C, D, E, F without even completing "Project A" which they had been originally financed for. Understand?


You are talking like you know everything about the inner workings of CIG and advocate their foolish decisions from supposed life experience, but you dont know jack shit if you start pulling in the strawman conspiracies theories angle while failing to refute the fact that they Have been failing horribly on the decision making aspect. And you can tout all of your half baked knowledge of the industry all you want, but many of what you consider the "de-facto" is the reason why companies fold.

And  because this isnt a regular game, with a normal publisher is why CR can pull such gimmicks. He is treating the crowdfunding as an infinite stream without anyone having to tell him to get his gear in check or release the game as it is. And that is where the perpetual-hype comes in, why should he release a game when he can keep throwing  a bone to his investors and keep developing his dream game with all the time in the world (not really though, since reality is different from the world inside CR's head). Not like Digital Anvil tanked because he doesnt know the value of time, right? And why cant CIG adopt the "it will be done when its done" motto and quietly chug on with the development? Yea, its because if they dont provide any short term release date and constant chatter, their crowdfunding will take a direct hit. Can you understand that simple concept?
Not like bonafide gaming companies dont pull similar stunts with shady monetising techniques, but for someone like CR who preaches against the big bad suits to stoop to same levels, is simply cruising for a bruising.


But before you reply, take your blinders off and keep your arrogance behind. I dont have any dog in this race, so relax and reply without any unwarranted mouth frothing. If you are finding it difficult to read through my entire post and grasp the meaning, I can create a TL;DR version especially for you.

Erillion

>>>> And why cant CIG adopt the "it will be done when its done" motto and quietly chug on with the development? Yea, its because if they dont provide any short term release date and constant chatter, their crowdfunding will take a direct hit.>>>>

Because it was a basic premise to keep the backers involved and informed in great detail. You will find this promise as early as the Kickstarter campaign in Oct/Nov 2012.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description

"We’re not interested in having yearly updates. Once live, we will have a team of people adding content on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. So we’ll always be adding data, stories and campaigns as well as reacting to the needs and actions of the players."

"Our goal is for the game’s website to be live from day one, constantly giving information about what’s happening in the galaxy even before the game is live, sharing interesting insights into the development process and canvassing the early backers for their opinions. Roberts Space Industries should be the first stop into the Star Citizen universe. When we say we want to involve the community, we really mean it!"

They are basically doing what they promised to do. You do not like that ... we get it.  I - personally - like it.

Have fun

Asm0deus

Phaserlight said:

....snip...

Hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Look, I'm not trying to get into a legal debate with you.  I am not a lawyer.  However, I know there is a precedent of people being sued over virtual goods.  Virtual goods are still property.  I recommend checking it out.

Not to burst your bubble but pretty much every mmo you play you do so with the understanding that you "own" nothing. The client doesn't belong to you nor any in game items or the account itself etc.

SC isn't Second Life where you can create your own content and sell it for cash.  SC has always said your not buying ships but pledging...sad thing is like most mmo I am sure it will be possible to be banned and lose all in game items...even if it cost you 1k for that one ship...lol

That said even good luck proving you "own" those virtual goods.

Hatefull

Erillion said:

holdenhamlet said:

Even better.  They don't have to even come up with new features to explain the delay.  They are still getting millions a month doing absolutely nothing at all.

If you think they are "doing absolutely nothing at all" i recommend you read the very detailed weekly and monthly progress reports on the official Star Citizen homepage.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15043-Monthly-Studio-Report

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15045-Weekly-Development-Update


Have fun

I could tell you I finished all the coding on SC, and it will be launched next month, and I could build and put it on a site with a blog and make it look just like SC does, and that still would not be a fact.

What you fail to realize is; Not everyone believes everything they read on the internet.  Just because someone say's something does not make it fact.  I understand that your rabid love for everything SC blinds to to the fact that not everyone shares your trust and belief in SC/CiG.

I am in the middle I don't think the haters have any ground to stand on, but I also don't believe the rabid fan boys have anything solid on their side either.  I know the truth falls somewhere in the middle.  I used to have a laugh at all this SC will die/ SC will revolutionize gaming crap, but at this point you are all just tired.  Seriously, there are so many other games out there with substantiated issues to discuss but you all want to argue over baseless accusations and conjecture.  This whole debate has gone from funny to pathetically sad on all sides.

Broken.Arrow

Erillion said:

>>>> And why cant CIG adopt the "it will be done when its done" motto and quietly chug on with the development? Yea, its because if they dont provide any short term release date and constant chatter, their crowdfunding will take a direct hit.>>>>

Because it was a basic premise to keep the backers involved and informed in great detail. You will find this promise as early as the Kickstarter campaign in Oct/Nov 2012.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description

"We’re not interested in having yearly updates. Once live, we will have a team of people adding content on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. So we’ll always be adding data, stories and campaigns as well as reacting to the needs and actions of the players."

"Our goal is for the game’s website to be live from day one, constantly giving information about what’s happening in the galaxy even before the game is live, sharing interesting insights into the development process and canvassing the early backers for their opinions. Roberts Space Industries should be the first stop into the Star Citizen universe. When we say we want to involve the community, we really mean it!"

They are basically doing what they promised to do. You do not like that ... we get it.  I - personally - like it.

Have fun

Wow!
I did not know that they want go on "canvassing" sprees rather than...you know, make the damn game.

This is hilarious, that they want to spend resources on all this unwanted fluff ventures rather than pool it into the actual game. Involved and informed right to the point they donate, and then *poof*, it disappears into the SC development pit of closed books.
You sir have provided my point of "maintaining constant chatter or crowdfunding takes a hit" with more weight. I thank you for that!


And still...they write sagas of potential bullshit but give their "investors" (according to Erillion) no word on how the money is being spent. Hmm...so easy to shut up all the naysayers for good by just showing the books in good faith, but they...just dont.

Maybe you should ask them to involve the community beyond their wallets eh, havefun? (just kidding, he knows)

Erillion

Broken.Arrow said:

This is hilarious, that they want to spend resources on all this unwanted fluff ventures rather than pool it into the actual game.

It is neither unwanted nor is development money being spent on all the fluff shows and video blogs.

The subscribers - a subset of the backers - are paying for that with their extra monthly donations. Its only mentioned EVERY SINGLE BLOODY TIME at the beginning and end of these shows e.g.

http://imperialnews.network/2015/11/10-chairman-episode-69/

".....Our subscribers are the subset of our community that contribute money every month to allow us to do a higher degree of community content, and it’s one of the things, I think that set Star Citizen apart from other Crowd funded games, and generally games in development. Because we have a huge amount of interaction with everybody in the community. It’s amazing to have all of you support us in building this game, and we like to share the development with you guys so you can sort of see us building Star Citizen and building Squadron 42 as we go along, and without the subscribers contributing the money, we wouldn’t have the funds to have all the sort of additional community staff and video staff and be able to do the multiple video shows every week and, you know, the many posts we do every week on our website, so we have more posts than days in the week, I think we’re up to three or four video shows a week, which is pretty crazy, but it’s all really down to subscribers, so thank you very much. It’s a lot of work to do all this content, but I think sharing the journey of making the game is something that for the team is really fun..... "

The other backers and the - interested - public are benefitting from these subscriber contributions that make it possible to create this extra content.


Have fun

Erillion

Hatefull said:

Erillion said:

holdenhamlet said:

Even better.  They don't have to even come up with new features to explain the delay.  They are still getting millions a month doing absolutely nothing at all.

If you think they are "doing absolutely nothing at all" i recommend you read the very detailed weekly and monthly progress reports on the official Star Citizen homepage.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15043-Monthly-Studio-Report

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15045-Weekly-Development-Update


Have fun

I could tell you I finished all the coding on SC, and it will be launched next month, and I could build and put it on a site with a blog and make it look just like SC does, and that still would not be a fact.***snip**

Direct question .... do you personally think those Monthly and Weekly Reports are fake, made up ?

My answer to that would be:  no, i do not think they are fake or made up.


Have fun

Loke666

MMOs takes time to make. Once they say the game is officially released or if they fire half the team it is time to worry... Leave them alone for now and bash the game if they fail to deliver at release.

But I wouldn't send them any more money for anything until they release.

CrazKanuk

Broken.Arrow said:

Erillion said:

>>>> And why cant CIG adopt the "it will be done when its done" motto and quietly chug on with the development? Yea, its because if they dont provide any short term release date and constant chatter, their crowdfunding will take a direct hit.>>>>

Because it was a basic premise to keep the backers involved and informed in great detail. You will find this promise as early as the Kickstarter campaign in Oct/Nov 2012.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description

"We’re not interested in having yearly updates. Once live, we will have a team of people adding content on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. So we’ll always be adding data, stories and campaigns as well as reacting to the needs and actions of the players."

"Our goal is for the game’s website to be live from day one, constantly giving information about what’s happening in the galaxy even before the game is live, sharing interesting insights into the development process and canvassing the early backers for their opinions. Roberts Space Industries should be the first stop into the Star Citizen universe. When we say we want to involve the community, we really mean it!"

They are basically doing what they promised to do. You do not like that ... we get it.  I - personally - like it.

Have fun

Wow!
I did not know that they want go on "canvassing" sprees rather than...you know, make the damn game.

This is hilarious, that they want to spend resources on all this unwanted fluff ventures rather than pool it into the actual game. Involved and informed right to the point they donate, and then *poof*, it disappears into the SC development pit of closed books.
You sir have provided my point of "maintaining constant chatter or crowdfunding takes a hit" with more weight. I thank you for that!


And still...they write sagas of potential bullshit but give their "investors" (according to Erillion) no word on how the money is being spent. Hmm...so easy to shut up all the naysayers for good by just showing the books in good faith, but they...just dont.

Maybe you should ask them to involve the community beyond their wallets eh, havefun? (just kidding, he knows)

Why do you need to know how their money is spent? You don't have to be an accountant to know where their money is going. They've got 250+ employees. Salaries plus labour burden likely has them somewhere in the arena of $2.5-3 million per month. Prior to all the hoopla their monthly revenue was down to just over $900,000 in June & July. In fact, only in October did their revenues get above the $2.5 million mark. So it's not all yacht trips and penthouse parties. Right now it's "get it to market before we run out of money". I don't know what more transparency you need. Also, McDonald's doesn't crack open their books for you because you bought a cheeseburger. RSI has no additional obligation, they just need to deliver the cheeseburger. 

Erinak1

CrazKanuk said:

Broken.Arrow said:

Erillion said:

>>>> And why cant CIG adopt the "it will be done when its done" motto and quietly chug on with the development? Yea, its because if they dont provide any short term release date and constant chatter, their crowdfunding will take a direct hit.>>>>

Because it was a basic premise to keep the backers involved and informed in great detail. You will find this promise as early as the Kickstarter campaign in Oct/Nov 2012.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description

"We’re not interested in having yearly updates. Once live, we will have a team of people adding content on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. So we’ll always be adding data, stories and campaigns as well as reacting to the needs and actions of the players."

"Our goal is for the game’s website to be live from day one, constantly giving information about what’s happening in the galaxy even before the game is live, sharing interesting insights into the development process and canvassing the early backers for their opinions. Roberts Space Industries should be the first stop into the Star Citizen universe. When we say we want to involve the community, we really mean it!"

They are basically doing what they promised to do. You do not like that ... we get it.  I - personally - like it.

Have fun

Wow!
I did not know that they want go on "canvassing" sprees rather than...you know, make the damn game.

This is hilarious, that they want to spend resources on all this unwanted fluff ventures rather than pool it into the actual game. Involved and informed right to the point they donate, and then *poof*, it disappears into the SC development pit of closed books.
You sir have provided my point of "maintaining constant chatter or crowdfunding takes a hit" with more weight. I thank you for that!


And still...they write sagas of potential bullshit but give their "investors" (according to Erillion) no word on how the money is being spent. Hmm...so easy to shut up all the naysayers for good by just showing the books in good faith, but they...just dont.

Maybe you should ask them to involve the community beyond their wallets eh, havefun? (just kidding, he knows)

Why do you need to know how their money is spent? You don't have to be an accountant to know where their money is going. They've got 250+ employees. Salaries plus labour burden likely has them somewhere in the arena of $2.5-3 million per month. Prior to all the hoopla their monthly revenue was down to just over $900,000 in June & July. In fact, only in October did their revenues get above the $2.5 million mark. So it's not all yacht trips and penthouse parties. Right now it's "get it to market before we run out of money". I don't know what more transparency you need. Also, McDonald's doesn't crack open their books for you because you bought a cheeseburger. RSI has no additional obligation, they just need to deliver the cheeseburger. 

I wonder if they need any artists, I want to get like $10k a month too! You guys are all arguing over weird side-views. I have no interest or stake in this game but logic tells me that if they do have 250 employees, I serious doubt they are all sitting around all day performing the wizard of oz. All I'll say is that if you don't want to end up paying for an unknown entity, don't pay for an unknown entity. If you want a certainty, pay for a game that has already been made. All of this arguing over semantics is ridiculous, on both sides.