The Lack of Delivered Content

Erillion

Brenics said:

Now this response is funny, first you will say it's fine with taking the first TOS down and rewriting it yet you paste stuff from site you agree with or goes with what you are attempting to say. Isn't this hypocritical?

You will find nothing here about the TOS. Read:

*******************************************************************************************
>>>> And why cant CIG adopt the "it will be done when its done" motto and quietly chug on with the development? Yea, its because if they dont provide any short term release date and constant chatter, their crowdfunding will take a direct hit.>>>>

Because it was a basic premise to keep the backers involved and informed in great detail. You will find this promise as early as the Kickstarter campaign in Oct/Nov 2012.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description

"We’re not interested in having yearly updates. Once live, we will have a team of people adding content on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. So we’ll always be adding data, stories and campaigns as well as reacting to the needs and actions of the players."

"Our goal is for the game’s website to be live from day one, constantly giving information about what’s happening in the galaxy even before the game is live, sharing interesting insights into the development process and canvassing the early backers for their opinions. Roberts Space Industries should be the first stop into the Star Citizen universe. When we say we want to involve the community, we really mean it!"

They are basically doing what they promised to do. You do not like that ... we get it.  I - personally - like it.

Have fun
***********************************************************************************************

I cut and pasted from Kickstarter. About the Star Citizen plans to keep backers informed about project progress.


Confused much ?


Have fun

Kefo

Herase said:

Kefo said:

Erillion said:

What you call "evidence" is only a collection of rumours, mostly originating from the same dubious sources.  No Smoking Gun for the last 3 years. Only rumour recycling.


Have fun 

Fairly easy to see they have missed release dates, pushed back the goalposts and you can check the internet archive for when they edited their TOS. I'd say that is a fairly large smoking gun but feel free to keep playing spin doctor.

So this is what's holding up all these arguments? People saw pushed back release dates and came to all these conclusions? Scam, mismanagement, games doomed, financial problems, etc? This is a joke right? This is no more than silly announcements that shouldn't be made, but thats about it.  

Actually shocked, thought there would be more than just pushed back dates.

I would say it's more like a annoying leaking water pistol than a smoking gun tbh.

/shrug 

Actually no it's not holding up all the arguments, it's holding up the one point being debated currently in the quoted replies. I have other issues with the company but thats easy enough to look for in my post history

@tawess I completely agree that games will constantly get pushed back, you wont find me arguing that point. I do tend to argue that CR needs to be muzzled so that he stops opening his mouth and spewing verbal diarrhea about release dates. If he is the god of gaming that so many like to spout off then perhaps he shouldn't throw shit at the wall and see what sticks for release dates.

@Erillion how do you know its 0.2% of the backers? Has CIG posted how many refunds they have given out, do you have insider information or are you just pulling crap out of your ass? And no I am not a backer and I won't play the game if/when it does release even if it is everything it is hyped up to be (which it wont) because I dont like the way they are handling things and I am that stubborn.

I am playing other games, games that are released and while they have bugs at least they are complete games.

pingo

Broken.Arrow said:

What....the hell? Are you even replying to my post or to something imaginary inside your head? Did you even read what I wrote??





Does that answer your rhetorical question about a single piece of evidence ? No? How about another piece of evidence:
 
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/271173/some-thoughts-on-concerns

" we somehow now aren’t doing the FPS module I will say that we are talking about a delay of weeks and not months/years/decades. " : posted July 8.

Another?

http://www.pcgamer.com/star-citizen-fps-module-is-weeks-away-says-chris-roberts/

"When I made the [Letter from the Chairman] update -- when we showed it at PAX East, we said we hoped it was going to be out sometime in April, but 'don't hold me to that' was what I actually said," Roberts said.
...
"In reality, we're probably weeks off," he continued. "We're shooting to have FPS on the PTU round-about Gamescom or slightly after Gamescom. We're really talking about people getting to play FPS in a matter of 3, 4, maybe 5 weeks."  : Posted July 19.


Do you want more?

First of all, you need an elementary course in opening your eyes and reading what it written, before you go spouting such high and mighty nonsense. If after reading, you are having issues to countering the veracity of my statements, then do yourself a favour and dont reply to self-concocted imaginary boogeyman posts and make a complete fool of yourself please.
I honestly dont even know if I reply to an unsteady person, because your replies thus far have been anything but rational. Read my posts and if you want to counter my points, do it without so much dramatic bullshittery. 

There is nothing uncommon about projects getting delayed for long periods of time. It's almost a right of passage for many AAA budget based games. How is this lost on your melodramatic meltdown? Seriously? Delays? Most games have delays. You should go heckle trains if you are so concerned about delays. Jesus christ. 


Again- None of this supports any of the quite frankly, misleading claims you make. 


Also, tone down on the hostility. You're getting a bit too passive-aggressive in your tone. It's not weird that people are calling you out for your lack of links of supporting your claims. 

Erillion

Kefo said:

 Has CIG posted how many refunds they have given out,

Yes.

Google is thy friend :-) 


Have fun

Kefo

Erillion said:

Kefo said:

 Has CIG posted how many refunds they have given out,

Yes.

Google is thy friend :-) 


Have fun

googled it but nothing except CR giving a very vague statement. So unless I am searching the wrong terms, mind directing me?

Erillion

Kefo said:

googled it but nothing except CR giving a very vague statement. So unless I am searching the wrong terms, mind directing me?

*** sigh *** Its Google .... terms: "star citizen number of refunds" ....Very exotic, i know ....

http://www.polygon.com/2015/8/20/9180067/star-citizen-backers-claiming-refunds-are-getting-their-money-back

"a total of 1,269 refunds have so far been given out, with 93 refunds since the beginning of July."


https://www.vg247.com/2015/08/21/roberts-star-citizen-refund-numbers-very-very-low-definitely-the-minority/

"Star Citizen developer Cloud Imperium Games will give you your money back, but says not many people want a refund."


Have fun

Burntvet

Vrika said:

Gdemami said:

laserit said:

Question:

So... are the funds raised by Kickstarter's / Crowdfunding taxed? are they considered profit? is it tax free moola?

Fundraised money are gifts, which aren't considered as taxable income.

CIG must charge value added taxes and sales taxes in their shop:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14433-VAT-Change-Announcement

In no case must you pay VAT for gifts your send or receive. There's a different tax for when you get gifts.

And this right here is something the shills and those who keep screaming "It's a donation, not a sale!" do not get: you don't screw with the tax man.

You can claim it's a gift, donation or whatever else, but when the taxman comes calling, the BS ends.

Looks like SC/CIG wised up, at least in EU, about this whole crowdfunded scam business and are treating things like a sale now. I can only imagine (not really, I don't have to imagine) what the legal notices they were sent, along with a rather stiff tax bill for all of their EU "sales".

So, along with the several US court decisions saying that KS/crowdfunded deals are or can be no different than a sale or pre-sale, here you have CIG/CR ADMITTING that it is a sale, and are collecting tax for it.


So, that should shut down the "donors are not customers" gallery once and for all.

Erillion

Burntvet said:

 I can only imagine (not really, I don't have to imagine) what the legal notices they were sent,

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14433-VAT-Change-Announcement

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/224033/katamari-damashii-vat


Have fun

Octagon7711

In the end people just want a playable game.  But like all games in development, you seldom get what you thought you would.  Time changes things. 

CrazKanuk

Burntvet said:

Vrika said:

Gdemami said:

laserit said:

Question:

So... are the funds raised by Kickstarter's / Crowdfunding taxed? are they considered profit? is it tax free moola?

Fundraised money are gifts, which aren't considered as taxable income.

CIG must charge value added taxes and sales taxes in their shop:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14433-VAT-Change-Announcement

In no case must you pay VAT for gifts your send or receive. There's a different tax for when you get gifts.

*snip*
So, that should shut down the "donors are not customers" gallery once and for all.

Hmmmmm, logic and reasoning or The Internet. I wonder which will win!!!! 

Kefo

Erillion said:

Kefo said:

googled it but nothing except CR giving a very vague statement. So unless I am searching the wrong terms, mind directing me?

*** sigh *** Its Google .... terms: "star citizen number of refunds" ....Very exotic, i know ....

http://www.polygon.com/2015/8/20/9180067/star-citizen-backers-claiming-refunds-are-getting-their-money-back

"a total of 1,269 refunds have so far been given out, with 93 refunds since the beginning of July."


https://www.vg247.com/2015/08/21/roberts-star-citizen-refund-numbers-very-very-low-definitely-the-minority/

"Star Citizen developer Cloud Imperium Games will give you your money back, but says not many people want a refund."


Have fun

I'd say thanks but since you come across as a condescending ass in your post then you don't deserve as much.

Erillion

Kefo said:

I'd say thanks but since you come across as a condescending ass in your post then you don't deserve as much.

Well ... at least i know how to use Google. Go me !


Have fun

filmoret

Kyleran said:

I think they found out it can't be delivered quite so modularly, so they are holding off on delivering more of it until it can be released more fully.

I think they.... Wait I shouldn't be thinking at all.  They should be telling me stuff then making it happen.

Arglebargle

The first rule of following Star Citizen should be 'Don't believe anything Chris Roberts says.'  His pronouncements may or may not have any bearing on reality.   A bit too much magickal thinking there. 

For someone who's supposed to be this grand veteran designer, he apparently still can't manage anything close to accurate deadline estimates.   Or realize that maybe he shouldn't even mention them.  Unless of course they are useful elsewhere, say, like marketing.

Kefo

Arglebargle said:

The first rule of following Star Citizen should be 'Don't believe anything Chris Roberts says.'  His pronouncements may or may not have any bearing on reality.   A bit too much magickal thinking there. 

For someone who's supposed to be this grand veteran designer, he apparently still can't manage anything close to accurate deadline estimates.   Or realize that maybe he shouldn't even mention them.  Unless of course they are useful elsewhere, say, like marketing.

See my comment about muzzling him but then he wouldn't be able to hype it to astronomical levels

Brenics

Erillion said:

Brenics said:

Now this response is funny, first you will say it's fine with taking the first TOS down and rewriting it yet you paste stuff from site you agree with or goes with what you are attempting to say. Isn't this hypocritical?

You will find nothing here about the TOS. Read:

*******************************************************************************************
>>>> And why cant CIG adopt the "it will be done when its done" motto and quietly chug on with the development? Yea, its because if they dont provide any short term release date and constant chatter, their crowdfunding will take a direct hit.>>>>

Because it was a basic premise to keep the backers involved and informed in great detail. You will find this promise as early as the Kickstarter campaign in Oct/Nov 2012.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/description

"We’re not interested in having yearly updates. Once live, we will have a team of people adding content on a weekly or bi-weekly basis. So we’ll always be adding data, stories and campaigns as well as reacting to the needs and actions of the players."

"Our goal is for the game’s website to be live from day one, constantly giving information about what’s happening in the galaxy even before the game is live, sharing interesting insights into the development process and canvassing the early backers for their opinions. Roberts Space Industries should be the first stop into the Star Citizen universe. When we say we want to involve the community, we really mean it!"

They are basically doing what they promised to do. You do not like that ... we get it.  I - personally - like it.

Have fun
***********************************************************************************************

I cut and pasted from Kickstarter. About the Star Citizen plans to keep backers informed about project progress.


Confused much ?


Have fun

LOL went right over your head! 

filmoret

I believe if you  take all the ships that have been sold then print their pictures.  You could make a good board game.  Or bored game.

makasouleater69

Guys, guys just admit it, he took your millions and pretended to be a director, got wasted lost all the money, and left. 

Herase

makasouleater69 said:

Guys, guys just admit it, he took your millions and pretended to be a director, got wasted lost all the money, and left. 

/facepalm

here we go agian

goboygo

They don't really have to release anything, the games not done yet.

Octagon7711

I'd like to know why the Escapist has gone silent.  Last thing they said is they were waiting to set up a tour date.  

"We do plan on taking Chris Roberts up on his offer to tour the various CIG studios and talk to current employees about the development of Star Citizen. We will be setting that up soon."

- John Keefer
Managing Editor
The Escapist

Wizardry

I see this thread everyday in main topics so it always has me thinking.

I thought about it and seems clear to me...SCAM business.

Here is why....

While YOU the people ,the ONLY reason this game even exists,supports and waits for things to do,they are constantly spending money on ways to sell you things to get MORE money out of you.

I think it's clear they have their priorities all wrong because remember each target area of design has already been met in the goals,so further grinding money out of supporters cannot be anything other than a scam.

Obviously NOBODY has any clue of the final product quality,but we can all guesstimate as i will.I feel this game will be a 5 maybe a 6/10,using that rating the people have already given these guys enough money for 2-3 games.So imo NO further grinding money should be done,instead offer up ships that players can earn,after all why play a game to just buy stuff with real money?I am pretty sure i am not alone in saying i like to EARN every single last item in a game,i NEVER want free handouts.

filmoret

Octagon7711 said:

I'd like to know why the Escapist has gone silent.  Last thing they said is they were waiting to set up a tour date.  

"We do plan on taking Chris Roberts up on his offer to tour the various CIG studios and talk to current employees about the development of Star Citizen. We will be setting that up soon."

- John Keefer
Managing Editor
The Escapist

They never heard of Skype?  I admit this operation does have me wondering which way it will fall.  On one hand they do have what appears to be legitimate progress.  On the other hand they do have a fishy business model and a company that evolves around one person's name.  How many games have 1 persons name linked directly to the title?  He is very concerned with making everyone know his name.  Which doesn't necessarily make the game fail but just makes me wonder about it.

Erillion

filmoret said:

  How many games have 1 persons name linked directly to the title? 

Many. "Sid Meier's XXXX" comes to mind.


Have fun

Vrika

Octagon7711 said:

I'd like to know why the Escapist has gone silent.  Last thing they said is they were waiting to set up a tour date.  

"We do plan on taking Chris Roberts up on his offer to tour the various CIG studios and talk to current employees about the development of Star Citizen. We will be setting that up soon."

- John Keefer
Managing Editor
The Escapist

Speculation: They might have made a deal where CIG agrees to not sue The Escapist for anything they wrote as long as The Escapist won't write anything more.

It would be a win-win situation for both compared to CIG actually taking it to court.