Think his point is that it's not actually different. The mobs might have a different texture, but it is seldom that combat behaves in any notably different fashion and as consequence, you are doing the same thing ad nauseam.
Your example relies on the idea that each mob type presents some novelty in it's gameplay. The reality dictates that such isn't the case.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
the real problem is that a lot of people that play MMOs don't really like MMOs anymore or have never really liked them.
This i completely agree with.
Up until recently i was pretty vocal of my utter distaste for MOBA's, FPS's, and whatever else has taken players away from this genre. Now i see it as a good thing as the players leaving never really seemed to get the essence of what made this genre great. Devs can get back to the basics and not try and make a game for everyone.
There are downsides to this though. More and more studios are trying to implement features from other genres to try and keep those players. I think this has done more damage than anything else. It's a trend i hope doesn't continue.
Tasks(Quests !) seem like they are in MMOs now because people can't figure out what to do without them.
It's pretty obvious why they're in RPGs: variety.
Without quests: do this 1 activity to advance.
With quests: do these 30+ different activities to advance.
What's the 1 activity of non-quest games? Killing mobs.
Killing mobs is common in quest-based games too, but even with that 1 activity they're dramatically more varied:
Instead of killing endlessly, you need to get, do, then turn-in the quest. So there's variety to what you're doing.
Instead of killing mostly the same mob, you're forced to kill specific mobs. This can either fall flat on its face (TOR and WAR's mobs involved almost no actual gameplay variety; the majority of enemies in those games played out exactly the same) or can be a HUGE source of variety (nearly all WOW's mobs use a distinct ability.)
Turns out players enjoy richly varied gameplay a lot more than they enjoy an endless repetitive grind. Who knew!
A few non-quest games reward more than just killing mobs, but even if they offered all 30+ of the activities that a quest-based game offered they'd still be less varied. Why? Because questing basically requires you to perform varied activities to advance the fastest, while in a non-quest game you're going to find whatever activity provides the highest XP/hour and only do that one activity because nothing forces you to switch activities (and in fact the travel time involved in switching activities would make that an inefficient choice.)
But they've been refined to near reflex mechanics for leveling. Dumb small task for a man trying to save the world. Everyone is trying to save the world as the savior. Every MMORPG doing the same generic stuff. Its not much difference in any other grind after the first few MMORPG you play.
How about remove vast power gaining progression? Players say they want this but then complain about grinds no matter how short and paying money to bypass this progression. You can have progression without vast upgrades in levels/hp/mana/stats/whatever. This is why sandbox and simulation elements should have been in MMORPG.
I was not complaining about the repetitive aspect so much as the fact that the tasks you do from game to game in MMOs don't really change and more importantly nothing you do actually has any impact on the world around you. This is what makes it grindy to me. Just killing shit so you can get better stats to go any kill bigger shit to get better stats. I've found games like that fun in the past, still do to some extent I guess but I'm ready for something new.
then play puzzle games, adventure games, strategy games ....
mmorpgs are pretty much hack-n-slash progression games now.
Aren't you the one who's always saying that MMOs need to change and evolve? In this case I agree. Just because most games follow that formula now doesn't mean they always will or should. In 2004 they were very constrained by the technology they had but that is changing.
yes i am. May be i should add the word "current". Currently mmorpgs are pretty much hack-n-slash progression games.
Of course, MMOs can (and are) be broadened to other type of games. The only "problem" is some here do not consider those MMOs .. so may be we should just advise them to play "other" types of games, accordingly to THEIR classifications.
No OP the problem is people that accept a weak effort or accept a bad game design and support it to encourage more developers to do the same thing. It is called passive people versus assertive people.The passive person is the one who sees your house being robbed and does nothing because "oh well it's not my house".The government is terrible but oh well i'm not voting because my vote won't matter anyhow.
It sounds more like the OP is being defensive towards system and ideals that do not belong in a MMORPG and seems to miss the entire point of such a game.
It is basically like saying , ..."Oh god forbid i want to play in a hockey league but i want to play it solo with no team mates.Ummm NO if you are not on a team it is NOT a team and you are not supporting the whole premise and design of the game,you are thinking selfishly and that is all.
There is nobody on this planet saying you cannot create any type of game you want,but if you are going to label it ONLY because it allows you the developer a better route to make more money ,then that is just wrong.Perfect example is i a see tons of single player games labeling themselves a MMO by simply taking a single player game and adding a login screen.That correlates to making more money,sub fees,DLC's,ongoing cash shops,NONE of which would be viable in a single player game except for DLC's.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
the real problem is that a lot of people that play MMOs don't really like MMOs anymore or have never really liked them.
This i completely agree with.
Up until recently i was pretty vocal of my utter distaste for MOBA's, FPS's, and whatever else has taken players away from this genre. Now i see it as a good thing as the players leaving never really seemed to get the essence of what made this genre great. Devs can get back to the basics and not try and make a game for everyone.
There are downsides to this though. More and more studios are trying to implement features from other genres to try and keep those players. I think this has done more damage than anything else. It's a trend i hope doesn't continue.
You sounds like other should like what you like. May be it is not that players do not "get the essence of made this genre great" but that the essence of this genre is not that great (which is subjective for these players) is not that great in the first place.
And shouldn't devs have the freedom to choose whom they want as customers? Isn't it their freedom to choose to cater to those who "don't really like MMOs anymore or have never really like them"? (I guess in this case, you mean the old classical MMOs).
They should not be making games for everyone, but they also have no obligation to make games for those who like classical MMOs.
the real problem is that a lot of people that play MMOs don't really like MMOs anymore or have never really liked them.
This i completely agree with.
Up until recently i was pretty vocal of my utter distaste for MOBA's, FPS's, and whatever else has taken players away from this genre. Now i see it as a good thing as the players leaving never really seemed to get the essence of what made this genre great. Devs can get back to the basics and not try and make a game for everyone.
There are downsides to this though. More and more studios are trying to implement features from other genres to try and keep those players. I think this has done more damage than anything else. It's a trend i hope doesn't continue.
You sounds like other should like what you like. May be it is not that players do not "get the essence of made this genre great" but that the essence of this genre is not that great (which is subjective for these players) is not that great in the first place.
And shouldn't devs have the freedom to choose whom they want as customers? Isn't it their freedom to choose to cater to those who "don't really like MMOs anymore or have never really like them"? (I guess in this case, you mean the old classical MMOs).
They should not be making games for everyone, but they also have no obligation to make games for those who like classical MMOs.
Sure.
The problem lies in how an MMORPG begins. Does one start with market research and people in suits looking for a piece of that pie? Or does one start with gamers looking to make a game they themselves are interested in playing? I'm only interested in one of those.
Devs of course have the freedom to make whatever they want, with proper funding of course. I just don't see that passion to create something special and long lasting anymore. I'm not even sure if something long term is even financially viable anymore unless it's for a niche audience.
But you know this. You're not interested in cooperative gameplay or anything long lasting. You're looking for something to entertain yourself with for an hour or two a night. I'm looking to continue to enjoy my hobby for years if possible. Something i have a passion for that extends past some quick fix solution or single player boredom.
I'm not looking for an obligation and i certainly don't feel entitled. I'm looking for a vision with some passion.
and neglected our families and friends for months and years.
make it hard to really advance if you don't have tons of time to play! This is what we fell in love with all those years ago and I honestly believe that returning to our roots is the only thing that will make it feel right again!
This PSA brought to you by the Association of Divorce lawyers Incorporated. If you're looking for a demographic of people to build a financially stable MMO from, those paying child support may not be the ones you are looking for...
But they've been refined to near reflex mechanics for leveling. Dumb small task for a man trying to save the world. Everyone is trying to save the world as the savior. Every MMORPG doing the same generic stuff. Its not much difference in any other grind after the first few MMORPG you play.
How about remove vast power gaining progression? Players say they want this but then complain about grinds no matter how short and paying money to bypass this progression. You can have progression without vast upgrades in levels/hp/mana/stats/whatever. This is why sandbox and simulation elements should have been in MMORPG.
In Witcher 3 I recently helped an old lady. She'd lent her sooty pan to a stranger. Days later she was peering into the cabin he had occupied on the edge of town, but requested help from my character because she wasn't able to just barge into the locked room. Turns out he'd died in there, and had used the soot to make ink to write a letter.
What you're suggesting is that it's unacceptable for my hero to help that old lady, because he may eventually go on to save the world. You're suggesting that as a hero I shouldn't ever help the little people. Are you sure you understand what a hero is?
Why would you suggest removing vast power progression? The only significant reason to limit power progression is to support group play (the broader the progression range, the harder it is to find someone near your progression to group with.) That one reason isn't related to our current conversation: we just covered how whether or not I go on to save the world, it's always acceptable to help an old lady.
Post edited by Axehilt on
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
People need to realize that "grind" they describe is often an asinine concept in and of itself. You are not meant to be doing EVERYTHING at max level and the whole concept of "end game" has flawed and skewed the genre massively to people thinking that "grind" is a bad thing. MMORPGs in the past were about the journey more than what was at the end of max level in the game that you just sit there grinding out the same raids, same dungeons day after day, week after week, month after month, until a new expansion pack for the game comes out.
Games today are a much smaller scale than games of the past (a prime example of older mmorpgs is that Everquest still has areas that people have not yet discovered). Grind is a necessity period. People need to get over the fact and realize that ALL RPG's and ALL VIDEO GAMES for that matter are massive repetition of the same task over and over and over presented in a "slightly" different way. A platformer has you jumping and shooting or meleeing frequently with diff enemies or level setups, a shooter has you running around shooting people in varied environments, rpgs have you do menial questing in varied environments as filler and then a story quest that most people never even bother reading as they are in a rush to smack into end game to get started doing what they consider the "fun stuff" because most of the decent content anymore is locked behind the level cap. The entire concept is utterly ridiculous and we are seemingly treating them like single player rpgs til end game at this point...
We need to back to these being about a journey, taking awhile to level and there being real reward to doing this or that and offering varied things for people to do, let's stop with the constant focus on just combat...
I fell in LOVE with MMORPGs because it felt like another world, huge and full of wonders. Grinding and forced grouping were the price one paid to see that world.
Small worlds on rails is why I have stopped playing the genre.
I fell in LOVE with MMORPGs because it felt like another world, huge and full of wonders. Grinding and forced grouping were the price one paid to see that world.
Small worlds on rails is why I have stopped playing the genre.
The rails are easy enough to fix but the small world thing is harder. It is very hard to make a huge MMO with good graphics today so either you get something that looks at least 10 years old or you get a game that is way smaller than the classic MMOs.
Hopefully will this change in a few years, there are several AIs in the work that are created to be able to generate large gameworlds and if you first could generate a massive world and then add some handcrafted parts to it you could make a huge MMO for a fraction of the price it would cost today.
Personally am I at least as annoyed of the difficulty of the games today, nothing in the open game world ever offers much of a challenge today. They made it into a daycare center and instanced everything with at least a marginal difficulty and since I am an explorer type of player that annoys me a lot.
They hate questing because it's not like quests are a staple of RPGs or anything. They despise raiding, gear progression, grinding and all things associated with theme parks. Oh and don't even think about making a "MMO" that you can't play solo from beginning to end, because that is just silly talk! In addition, It better also be polished, balanced, free to play with no bugs and constant content releases.
My point is I think the real problem is that a lot of people that play MMOs don't really like MMOs anymore or have never really liked them.
When developers created games like EQ, UO, Shadowbane, Vanilla WoW, etc they weren't trying to please everyone they were just trying to please a small percentage of people that were into fantasy and video games. They basically started with a fantasy based environment, added some cool elements like crafting, building, etc, sold it in a box and charged a monthly fee to play it to support continued development and server costs, and we were all fine with it. There were only a few to chose from so us gamers picked our poison, created our guilds, hopped in voice comms with our guildies, quested until we reached a level previously thought unreachable and neglected our families and friends for months and years.
I feel that most of the original MMO players have either become jaded or have moved on and we are left with a bunch of people that discovered MMOs at a time when developers were chasing the WoW white rabbit and either doing everything the same but not as good as WoW or everything completely different than it, neither methodology has really progressed the genre.
I say it's time for MMOs to get back to their roots! Forget trying to be everything to everyone and just please the people that really love the genre. Charge us to buy the game and to play, make things not so easily accessible, make grouping mandatory for at least 50% of the game, make it hard to really advance if you don't have tons of time to play! This is what we fell in love with all those years ago and I honestly believe that returning to our roots is the only thing that will make it feel right again!
Whats obvious to me is that you just don't get it and you obviously haven't been listening. The modern MMO has removed approximately half of what made us addicted to the MMO world in the first place. The problem with the MMO's is that they have stopped offering what they promised to offer in exchange for prettier graphics. People want more, not less. EQ2 has some of the best housing ever created, but now, if we get it at all, we get lazy housing with "hooks" because they don't want to spend the time to allow you to put things on the x,y,z axis, turn it and put in upside down, partially into the walls, roofs, and floors, with breakout points. It's not just housing that we want, it's GOOD housing. It should be expanded. Instead, what we are usually getting is none at all. And the same can be said for every other aspect of these games. We are getting worlds built on rails, with automatic grouping (GW2), and either massive pvp or limited raiding when we reach level cap.
This genre holds so much promise, but the devs have even started complaining about how hard it has become trying to wow people with amazing graphics. They are neglecting game play to give us amazing graphics. The graphics don't NEED to be top notch. They can be EQ2 level just fine (hopefully the faces done better), but give us better game play for gods sakes. Stop taking things away.
We all keep going back to the games we loved because they offer MORE than any of the games out there right now. There is something seriously wrong when 10 year old games offer more than games released last year.
We want the old games. But we want them done better. This isn't a hard concept.
We want the old games. But we want them done better. This isn't a hard concept.
who are "we"? I certainly don't want old games. And you can "want" all you like .. but devs can choose whom they are catering to.
The thing is honestly that devs are catering more and more to the wrong crowd. They are trying to appeal to the WoW market and most WoW players don't give a shit about other mmorpgs be it either time investment, them being blizzard fanboys, not having a want to explore other stuff, or just plane old not liking something slightly different and having to redo this or that from scratch.
I've heard all these excuses why they go back to WoW time and time again but i've yet to hear anyone mention in what ways it is actually better than 90% of the other stuff out there. There is a good steady base of people that will commit a lot of time and energy to an MMORPG they feel is made the right way and doesn't just encompass the lowest common denominator type of crow.
Have you noticed most of these games are literally forced to go free to play to try and at the very least make back their investments or try and earn money? That in and of itself is showing they are trying to target the wrong groups. Would you rather have 500,000 people that will stick with your game for a decade or 2 million that will abandon it after 3 months?
But they've been refined to near reflex mechanics for leveling. Dumb small task for a man trying to save the world. Everyone is trying to save the world as the savior. Every MMORPG doing the same generic stuff. Its not much difference in any other grind after the first few MMORPG you play.
How about remove vast power gaining progression? Players say they want this but then complain about grinds no matter how short and paying money to bypass this progression. You can have progression without vast upgrades in levels/hp/mana/stats/whatever. This is why sandbox and simulation elements should have been in MMORPG.
In Witcher 3 I recently helped an old lady. She'd lent her sooty pan to a stranger who occupied a hut on the edge of town. Days later she was peering into the cabin he had occupied on the edge of town, but requested help from my character because she wasn't able to just barge into the locked room. Turns out he'd died in there, and had used the soot to make ink to write a letter.
What you're suggesting is that it's unacceptable for my hero to help that old lady, because he may eventually go on to save the world. You're suggesting that as a hero I shouldn't ever help the little people. Are you sure you understand what a hero is?
Why would you suggest removing vast power progression? The only significant reason to limit power progression is to support group play (the broader the progression range, the harder it is to find someone near your progression to group with.) That one reason isn't related to our current conversation: we just covered how whether or not I go on to save the world, it's always acceptable to help an old lady.
You're comparing a single player game mission with some sort of plot to MMORPG oh great savior free my farm of never ending wolves along with ever other player. Those quest just exist as filler to the grand progression ladder. We are talking about filler quest not substance quest that actually mean more than exp.
Vast progression always leads to vast filler. No vast progression = no vast quest tied to progression = no need for forced filler task. The group play is one added bonus. You also have freelance adventuring vs. linear questing. For developers you also don't have players burning through your content never to be used again.
I think this is a very complex question but if I had to dilute it down to a two thoughts, they would be:
a) Every large AAA MMO in the past decade uses a very similar formula to WoW with their own twist through art style or tweaks to the side activities.
b) The customer isn't always right, if you're a soccer coach, you don't let the players tell you when they've had enough drilling and conditioning, you push them so that the achieve victory and feel good about it. If you handed someone a trophy instead of them winning a championship, how would you value that trophy?
I think this is a very complex question but if I had to dilute it down to a two thoughts, they would be:
a) Every large AAA MMO in the past decade uses a very similar formula to WoW with their own twist through art style or tweaks to the side activities.
b) The customer isn't always right, if you're a soccer coach, you don't let the players tell you when they've had enough drilling and conditioning, you push them so that the achieve victory and feel good about it. If you handed someone a trophy instead of them winning a championship, how would you value that trophy?
Problem you are missing on the soccer issue, is today they don't want any losers, they want to make every one the same so even the team that loses 0-10 feel they are winners. At least with our kids who are being ruined by the PC crowd. Think this is also happening in the game's we play, everyone wants to be the winner and no losers. At least this is what i see happening.
a) Every large AAA MMO in the past decade uses a very similar formula to WoW with their own twist through art style or tweaks to the side activities.
b) The customer isn't always right, if you're a soccer coach, you don't let the players tell you when they've had enough drilling and conditioning, you push them so that the achieve victory and feel good about it. If you handed someone a trophy instead of them winning a championship, how would you value that trophy?
You're comparing a single player game mission with some sort of plot to MMORPG oh great savior free my farm of never ending wolves along with ever other player. Those quest just exist as filler to the grand progression ladder. We are talking about filler quest not substance quest that actually mean more than exp.
Vast progression always leads to vast filler. No vast progression = no vast quest tied to progression = no need for forced filler task. The group play is one added bonus. You also have freelance adventuring vs. linear questing. For developers you also don't have players burning through your content never to be used again.
Did you even read my post?
The quest I mentioned wasn't even saving a lousy farm. It was saving some old lady's pan. Just a pan. (You know, the kind you cook with?)
RPGs and MMORPGs are games about rich worlds with rich stories. That means not every single quest is going to be part of the main story. That means many quests are filler. If you want a game where you're only playing the main story, you're in the wrong genre.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Comments
Your example relies on the idea that each mob type presents some novelty in it's gameplay. The reality dictates that such isn't the case.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Up until recently i was pretty vocal of my utter distaste for MOBA's, FPS's, and whatever else has taken players away from this genre. Now i see it as a good thing as the players leaving never really seemed to get the essence of what made this genre great. Devs can get back to the basics and not try and make a game for everyone.
There are downsides to this though. More and more studios are trying to implement features from other genres to try and keep those players. I think this has done more damage than anything else. It's a trend i hope doesn't continue.
How about remove vast power gaining progression? Players say they want this but then complain about grinds no matter how short and paying money to bypass this progression. You can have progression without vast upgrades in levels/hp/mana/stats/whatever. This is why sandbox and simulation elements should have been in MMORPG.
Of course, MMOs can (and are) be broadened to other type of games. The only "problem" is some here do not consider those MMOs .. so may be we should just advise them to play "other" types of games, accordingly to THEIR classifications.
It is called passive people versus assertive people.The passive person is the one who sees your house being robbed and does nothing because "oh well it's not my house".The government is terrible but oh well i'm not voting because my vote won't matter anyhow.
It sounds more like the OP is being defensive towards system and ideals that do not belong in a MMORPG and seems to miss the entire point of such a game.
It is basically like saying , ..."Oh god forbid i want to play in a hockey league but i want to play it solo with no team mates.Ummm NO if you are not on a team it is NOT a team and you are not supporting the whole premise and design of the game,you are thinking selfishly and that is all.
There is nobody on this planet saying you cannot create any type of game you want,but if you are going to label it ONLY because it allows you the developer a better route to make more money ,then that is just wrong.Perfect example is i a see tons of single player games labeling themselves a MMO by simply taking a single player game and adding a login screen.That correlates to making more money,sub fees,DLC's,ongoing cash shops,NONE of which would be viable in a single player game except for DLC's.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
You sounds like other should like what you like. May be it is not that players do not "get the essence of made this genre great" but that the essence of this genre is not that great (which is subjective for these players) is not that great in the first place.
And shouldn't devs have the freedom to choose whom they want as customers? Isn't it their freedom to choose to cater to those who "don't really like MMOs anymore or have never really like them"? (I guess in this case, you mean the old classical MMOs).
They should not be making games for everyone, but they also have no obligation to make games for those who like classical MMOs.
The problem lies in how an MMORPG begins. Does one start with market research and people in suits looking for a piece of that pie? Or does one start with gamers looking to make a game they themselves are interested in playing? I'm only interested in one of those.
Devs of course have the freedom to make whatever they want, with proper funding of course. I just don't see that passion to create something special and long lasting anymore. I'm not even sure if something long term is even financially viable anymore unless it's for a niche audience.
But you know this. You're not interested in cooperative gameplay or anything long lasting. You're looking for something to entertain yourself with for an hour or two a night. I'm looking to continue to enjoy my hobby for years if possible. Something i have a passion for that extends past some quick fix solution or single player boredom.
I'm not looking for an obligation and i certainly don't feel entitled. I'm looking for a vision with some passion.
What you're suggesting is that it's unacceptable for my hero to help that old lady, because he may eventually go on to save the world. You're suggesting that as a hero I shouldn't ever help the little people. Are you sure you understand what a hero is?
Why would you suggest removing vast power progression? The only significant reason to limit power progression is to support group play (the broader the progression range, the harder it is to find someone near your progression to group with.) That one reason isn't related to our current conversation: we just covered how whether or not I go on to save the world, it's always acceptable to help an old lady.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Games today are a much smaller scale than games of the past (a prime example of older mmorpgs is that Everquest still has areas that people have not yet discovered). Grind is a necessity period. People need to get over the fact and realize that ALL RPG's and ALL VIDEO GAMES for that matter are massive repetition of the same task over and over and over presented in a "slightly" different way. A platformer has you jumping and shooting or meleeing frequently with diff enemies or level setups, a shooter has you running around shooting people in varied environments, rpgs have you do menial questing in varied environments as filler and then a story quest that most people never even bother reading as they are in a rush to smack into end game to get started doing what they consider the "fun stuff" because most of the decent content anymore is locked behind the level cap. The entire concept is utterly ridiculous and we are seemingly treating them like single player rpgs til end game at this point...
We need to back to these being about a journey, taking awhile to level and there being real reward to doing this or that and offering varied things for people to do, let's stop with the constant focus on just combat...
Small worlds on rails is why I have stopped playing the genre.
Hopefully will this change in a few years, there are several AIs in the work that are created to be able to generate large gameworlds and if you first could generate a massive world and then add some handcrafted parts to it you could make a huge MMO for a fraction of the price it would cost today.
Personally am I at least as annoyed of the difficulty of the games today, nothing in the open game world ever offers much of a challenge today. They made it into a daycare center and instanced everything with at least a marginal difficulty and since I am an explorer type of player that annoys me a lot.
People support games that they think are good (subjectively).
No one else is obligated to like what you like.
This genre holds so much promise, but the devs have even started complaining about how hard it has become trying to wow people with amazing graphics. They are neglecting game play to give us amazing graphics. The graphics don't NEED to be top notch. They can be EQ2 level just fine (hopefully the faces done better), but give us better game play for gods sakes. Stop taking things away.
We all keep going back to the games we loved because they offer MORE than any of the games out there right now. There is something seriously wrong when 10 year old games offer more than games released last year.
We want the old games. But we want them done better. This isn't a hard concept.
Spankster77 said: true
I've heard all these excuses why they go back to WoW time and time again but i've yet to hear anyone mention in what ways it is actually better than 90% of the other stuff out there. There is a good steady base of people that will commit a lot of time and energy to an MMORPG they feel is made the right way and doesn't just encompass the lowest common denominator type of crow.
Have you noticed most of these games are literally forced to go free to play to try and at the very least make back their investments or try and earn money? That in and of itself is showing they are trying to target the wrong groups. Would you rather have 500,000 people that will stick with your game for a decade or 2 million that will abandon it after 3 months?
Vast progression always leads to vast filler. No vast progression = no vast quest tied to progression = no need for forced filler task. The group play is one added bonus. You also have freelance adventuring vs. linear questing. For developers you also don't have players burning through your content never to be used again.
a) Every large AAA MMO in the past decade uses a very similar formula to WoW with their own twist through art style or tweaks to the side activities.
b) The customer isn't always right, if you're a soccer coach, you don't let the players tell you when they've had enough drilling and conditioning, you push them so that the achieve victory and feel good about it. If you handed someone a trophy instead of them winning a championship, how would you value that trophy?
c) Players may not be anti-social but they are given the tools such that it's easier to be so. https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comments/3x06l8/when_did_mmo_players_become_so_antisocial/
Is there a greens fee, or can members tee off any time?
Star Citizen – The Extinction Level Event
4/13/15 > ELE has been updated look for 16-04-13.
http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/04/star-citizen-the-ele/
Enjoy and know the truth always comes to light!
b) Lol .. we are not playing sports here (at least most of us). We are talking about entertainment here. Of course the customer is right.
c) and they don't have to use those tool. If they choose to, obviously they are anti-social. Choices are great.
The quest I mentioned wasn't even saving a lousy farm. It was saving some old lady's pan. Just a pan. (You know, the kind you cook with?)
RPGs and MMORPGs are games about rich worlds with rich stories. That means not every single quest is going to be part of the main story. That means many quests are filler. If you want a game where you're only playing the main story, you're in the wrong genre.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver