Not quite sure how this is hard to understand, but I'll try and break it down for you -
GrumpyHobbit said - "The fact you didn't realise that was irony and actually think that MMORPGS becoming more like arcade games is good progrgess just shows your ignorance."
His "ironic" statement from before was that "Isn't progress wonderful." implying that "And now we have virtual worlds where you are alone because no one knows how to interact anymore or work out how to overcome a challenge or how to work things out without looking for the answer on the Internet." is a bad thing.
With me so far?
His statement that MMOs becoming non-social being "progress" was his ironic statement.
Nariusseldon then was saying that it actually was progress, as the games are more fun and entertaining as games rather than world-simulations.
Grumpy came back and said "The fact you didn't realise that was irony and actually think that MMORPGS becoming more like arcade games is good progrgess just shows your ignorance."
Now, this is probably the part where you get lost, and that is OK.
Grumpy is saying that it is ignorant to think that games becoming more arcade like vs. simulation like is a good thing.
Grumpy is saying that Nariusseldon's opinion is wrong, and he is simply ignorant to the fact that his opinion is inferior.
My "solution" is to limit the parts of the massively multiplayer part (e.g. just have a city as a lobby) because that is not conducive to good quest gameplay.
The genre is changing anyway. If the core tenet of a genre is no longer "good" (deemed by the devs or the target audience they are shooting for), why not change it?
BTW, i can certainly play other types of games, and I do. But the point is .. if devs want to have good quests content, just learn from single player games, and change the genre. They don't have to do it, it is up to them.
"Deleting MMOs from existence" is clearly a solution if no one likes them anymore. Plenty of genre has suffered declines, MMOs will not be the first.
Again, a solution in which you destroy the thing you're trying to fix is not a solution.
Only in your opinion.
It is certainly a solution to improving dev's business.
My "solution" is to limit the parts of the massively multiplayer part (e.g. just have a city as a lobby) because that is not conducive to good quest gameplay.
The genre is changing anyway. If the core tenet of a genre is no longer "good" (deemed by the devs or the target audience they are shooting for), why not change it?
BTW, i can certainly play other types of games, and I do. But the point is .. if devs want to have good quests content, just learn from single player games, and change the genre. They don't have to do it, it is up to them.
"Deleting MMOs from existence" is clearly a solution if no one likes them anymore. Plenty of genre has suffered declines, MMOs will not be the first.
Again, a solution in which you destroy the thing you're trying to fix is not a solution.
Only in your opinion.
It is certainly a solution to improving dev's business.
They've been doing that with "phasing" or whatever you want to call it for a while now. Notable examples include WoW, SWTOR, and Destiny.
Interestingly enough, all 3 games have sold millions of copies and retain millions of players.
His statement was sarcastic, not ironic. His statement was also extracted from the context of his sarcastic diatribe and remarked upon in a serious context by Nariu, prompting him to respond with the statement that if Nariu couldn't see that the statement was sarcastic then he was an idiot.
Meanwhile you are expending great lengths to tell everyone what he said so that you can ruffle your feathers about it.
This isn't rocket science, you're just expending a lot of effort into reading into things so you have something to complain about.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Yes it is. Finally mmorpgs are more like games than virtual worlds. You can't say that the genre has not changed.
The fact you didn't realise that was irony and actually think that MMORPGS becoming more like arcade games is good progrgess just shows your ignorance.
nah ... it only shows that some are so obsessed with old classical MMOs that any negative opinion will trigger, predictably, emotional responses and personal attacks.
With 24k posts, shouldn't be any surprise to you Nariusseldon that people on this site are generally bitter, old vets who think everything sucks and are a general drain on the collective happiness of the world.
Maybe read it again when you graduate then if you can't see the irony in complaining about someone calling another an idiot about an opinion and then accusing a whole swathe of people of being a drain on the planet.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Maybe read it again when you graduate then if you can't see the irony in complaining about someone calling another an idiot about an opinion and then accusing a whole swathe of people of being a drain on the planet.
I don't think a single person who has been on this site for longer than about 3.7 minutes would think my statement about the tone of this site is anything but a fact. No opinion about it.
Oh? So there aren't people, say, like you that seem to exist solely to complain about people complaining in some disturbingly meta hobby?
There aren't forum posters with 24k posts that mostly just repeat the same question time and again?
There aren't posters that vehemently argue that older games "aren't deep" at every turn?
The tone of this site is exceptionally tumultuous, and to say that it is a haven for bitter vets does a disservice to the fact that some of the most vocal complaints are those that denounce them.
It's irony in it's most complete form.
EDIT: The reality is that you, like every other human on the planet, has biases, and have chosen to identify certain things as good and bad. Things that align with your beliefs or are somewhat muted, don't stand out beyond the case that they promote your world view. Things that disagree, are roadblocks, and as such stand out strongly regardless of how many or how few there are. Not going to pretend I'm not subject to bias either, but I'm aware enough not to deny the things that are simply obvious.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
nah ... it only shows that some are so obsessed with old classical MMOs that any negative opinion will trigger, predictably, emotional responses and personal attacks.
Glad we agree your opinion is always negative. Your agenda is always such a beacon of light to the rest of us.
If the old MMO's were so great, then why aren't you still playing them?
I play DAOC still every weekend with a great RvR guild. I can honestly say it s still better then anything in the last 10 years. Even the pve in DF is better then most now.
My favorite part is when seemingly intelligent people just have the point fly so far over their heads, they're too busy burying themselves in steaming piles of their own importance.
Comments
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Not quite sure how this is hard to understand, but I'll try and break it down for you -
GrumpyHobbit said - "The fact you didn't realise that was irony and actually think that MMORPGS becoming more like arcade games is good progrgess just shows your ignorance."
His "ironic" statement from before was that "Isn't progress wonderful." implying that "And now we have virtual worlds where you are alone because no one knows how to interact anymore or work out how to overcome a challenge or how to work things out without looking for the answer on the Internet." is a bad thing.
With me so far?
His statement that MMOs becoming non-social being "progress" was his ironic statement.
Nariusseldon then was saying that it actually was progress, as the games are more fun and entertaining as games rather than world-simulations.
Grumpy came back and said "The fact you didn't realise that was irony and actually think that MMORPGS becoming more like arcade games is good progrgess just shows your ignorance."
Now, this is probably the part where you get lost, and that is OK.
Grumpy is saying that it is ignorant to think that games becoming more arcade like vs. simulation like is a good thing.
Grumpy is saying that Nariusseldon's opinion is wrong, and he is simply ignorant to the fact that his opinion is inferior.
Still with me?
It is certainly a solution to improving dev's business.
Interestingly enough, all 3 games have sold millions of copies and retain millions of players.
Meanwhile you are expending great lengths to tell everyone what he said so that you can ruffle your feathers about it.
This isn't rocket science, you're just expending a lot of effort into reading into things so you have something to complain about.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
If they don't want to make MMOs they don't have to. Leave the development of that genre to people who, well, want to actually develop for that genre.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
There aren't forum posters with 24k posts that mostly just repeat the same question time and again?
There aren't posters that vehemently argue that older games "aren't deep" at every turn?
The tone of this site is exceptionally tumultuous, and to say that it is a haven for bitter vets does a disservice to the fact that some of the most vocal complaints are those that denounce them.
It's irony in it's most complete form.
EDIT: The reality is that you, like every other human on the planet, has biases, and have chosen to identify certain things as good and bad. Things that align with your beliefs or are somewhat muted, don't stand out beyond the case that they promote your world view. Things that disagree, are roadblocks, and as such stand out strongly regardless of how many or how few there are. Not going to pretend I'm not subject to bias either, but I'm aware enough not to deny the things that are simply obvious.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
MMO forums are for arguing, trolling, and lols
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
If you can't attack the opinion you classify as wrong, attack the poster!
MMORPG.com never changes... god I love this place.
Almost 12 years later, same shit, different people!
I love threads like this - "the real problem with MMOs" because the answer is always the exact same thing.
And then the REAL answer reveals itself through the poster's comments. It is truly an experience to behold.
I play DAOC still every weekend with a great RvR guild. I can honestly say it s still better then anything in the last 10 years. Even the pve in DF is better then most now.
This place is like a mecca for lols