It seems that you put most of your effort in trolling whatever game you decide to not like at that moment in time.
I never trolled, I just said the truth, people didn't like it. I made a Black Desert = Pay2Win thread a few weeks ago, and everyone lost it and attacked me.
Now that it's actually true, you cry foul.
I said the game will be Pay2Win just like Vindictus....shocker.....it is....it uses the same enchant system, same hp, revive potion, temporary scroll system...I said the game would be just like every Korean game before it....pay2win....it is....shocker.
Who gives a shit about revive potions?
That's fine, so you don't mind the game is pay2win, why do you get upset when I point it out then.
beacause .. right now its there new internet girlfriend and you .. rightfully so just called her a Ho
It's more like calling someone's newborn baby girl a ho. It might be true 18 years from now but at the moment you are just doing it because you think it's true
Yep, I was just thinking of the expression "You called the baby ugly"
I find these threads quite entertaining. It's a Korean port. Yeah, it's going to be P2W. They always are. At 1st there will be a nice honeymoon phase and the publisher will be on their best behavior. But Just wait The true colors will show. The real P2W will be in the end game area with RNG modifiers for real cash.
No doubt form GW2, to AA, to BDO of course there will be "p2w" elements. It's all about degree imho. As things look right now the BDO shop is very mild. Once they start allowing CS items to be sold on the market the degree of p2w will change.
When ever you can convert $$ to gold, you have firmly entered the p2w arena.
Yeah OK, this isn't even Semantics. Click on that link and read.
Note:
Cash Shop items will not be possible to sell on the marketplace at launch phase
"Launch Phase" It specifically says "Launch Phase" Then they say
If we decide to enable selling Cash Shop Items at a later stage, there will be control mechanisms that will prevent players from heavily profiting and gaining an advantage by repetitively selling Cash Items on the marketplace
That means they are already planning it out.
So the plan is to be able to profit with real cash but not "heavily"?
Close to 50% of that cash shop is not cool the other 50 % i am ok with.
The two most obvious real lame ones are 1/4/8 baggage space,they can't be serious selling 1 slot? roflmao that has to be the lamest yet of any game on the market or are they talking about entire bags like 1 bag 4 bags 8 bags or is that just single slots?
The second being ,transferring life skills xp to another player.I do remember ROM doing something sort of similar with an xp orb,not in favor of that stuff. Other stuff like character slots and name changes are all ok in a cash shop.XP boosts not ok.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Yeah OK, this isn't even Semantics. Click on that link and read.
Note:
Cash Shop items will not be possible to sell on the marketplace at launch phase
"Launch Phase" It specifically says "Launch Phase" Then they say
If we decide to enable selling Cash Shop Items at a later stage, there will be control mechanisms that will prevent players from heavily profiting and gaining an advantage by repetitively selling Cash Items on the marketplace
That means they are already planning it out.
So the plan is to be able to profit with real cash but not "heavily"?
P2W.
People have brains in their heads, everybody understood what they said but it doesn't look like you did, not 100% anyways. If they decide to enable the sale of cash shop items for silver; that would mean cash shop and retail sales have slowed down which could be months or years from now as well as weeks from release. That's inevitable and hardly a surprise, to anybody.
The important part is the control mechanisms being in place; no other company(atleast the ones I played) boldly stated they will control and possibly eliminate the advantage it would give. This is what people are clinging on to. Besides, the only competition BDO will have is BnS which is just as much at risk if not more to also be P2W among every other MMO in existence for that matter lol
Yeah OK, this isn't even Semantics. Click on that link and read.
Note:
Cash Shop items will not be possible to sell on the marketplace at launch phase
"Launch Phase" It specifically says "Launch Phase" Then they say
If we decide to enable selling Cash Shop Items at a later stage, there will be control mechanisms that will prevent players from heavily profiting and gaining an advantage by repetitively selling Cash Items on the marketplace
That means they are already planning it out.
So the plan is to be able to profit with real cash but not "heavily"?
P2W.
No argument here man. Wushu for 15 months had p2w elements, but if you played the game you could make money so I had no issue and was pretty well off. Theeeen the money wells started drying up, theeeen powerful items became super rare. This meant that if you didn't spend $$ you could not dream of having those nice things.
At this moment for what I've seen in my time playing BDO silver is really easy to make, so no problem if the game continues to be fun. Make no mistake though, you are correct the systems are in place.
Yeah OK, this isn't even Semantics. Click on that link and read.
Note:
Cash Shop items will not be possible to sell on the marketplace at launch phase
"Launch Phase" It specifically says "Launch Phase" Then they say
If we decide to enable selling Cash Shop Items at a later stage, there will be control mechanisms that will prevent players from heavily profiting and gaining an advantage by repetitively selling Cash Items on the marketplace
That means they are already planning it out.
So the plan is to be able to profit with real cash but not "heavily"?
P2W.
No argument here man. Wushu for 15 months had p2w elements, but if you played the game you could make money so I had no issue and was pretty well off. Theeeen the money wells started drying up, theeeen powerful items became super rare. This meant that if you didn't spend $$ you could not dream of having those nice things.
At this moment for what I've seen in my time playing BDO silver is really easy to make, so no problem if the game continues to be fun. Make no mistake though, you are correct the systems are in place.
I think the problem with threads like thise is they come from the perspective of players who aren't planning on spending money. Or spending considerably less money in the CS. These are not the players that the CS is targeting. They could care less if you come or go after you bought the box and aren't spending money. They only need enough freeloaders to make it worth while for the spenders to actually spend money.
My take on this is that BDO is looking for that magical balance. They paid attention to ArcheAge and don't want to repeat that. But the game, like all these games, will ultimately cater to the spenders.
Black Desert will lose players in the first 2 months post launch - this is what they've seen in Korean and Russia and what they are anticipating in NA/EU
Over time = in this case = months after launch
I didn't know the game is bleeding that bad in KR/RU, thanks for the info. I'm still hoping that the monies from box/founders sale help them add content before the player hemorrhage. Because in theory the prettier a game looks its chance of survival on a cosmetic cash-shop only increases. Toss in a few convenient items and it might actually live long enough for the next expansion or something.
But I see this game as one of those movies that got a good cast, good director, excellent special effects but not a good script. Let's hope for the best though
Gaming Rocks next gen. community for last gen. gamers launching soon.
Close to 50% of that cash shop is not cool the other 50 % i am ok with.
The two most obvious real lame ones are 1/4/8 baggage space,they can't be serious selling 1 slot? roflmao that has to be the lamest yet of any game on the market or are they talking about entire bags like 1 bag 4 bags 8 bags or is that just single slots?
The second being ,transferring life skills xp to another player.I do remember ROM doing something sort of similar with an xp orb,not in favor of that stuff. Other stuff like character slots and name changes are all ok in a cash shop.XP boosts not ok.
1/4/8 most likely is individual spaces as it lists. You start with very little space but it grows over time through quests and contribution pts you earn from simply playing which allow you to upgrade your storage.
I'll probably buy a bit at launch if it isn't too pricey, but it isn't really necessary. As there are vendors all over the world, taking a few minutes once in a while to sell isn't a giant hassle.
Assuming the transfer stuff is due to them not launching with all classes and making it easier to move to a new main. Not unlike WoW or whatever game that gives an instant max or close to max lvl character with new expansions and what not.
I think the problem with threads like thise is they come from the perspective of players who aren't planning on spending money. Or spending considerably less money in the CS. These are not the players that the CS is targeting. They could care less if you come or go after you bought the box and aren't spending money. They only need enough freeloaders to make it worth while for the spenders to actually spend money.
My take on this is that BDO is looking for that magical balance. They paid attention to ArcheAge and don't want to repeat that.
But the game, like all these games, will ultimately cater to the spenders.
Exactly, they are a for profit business not a charity.
BDO offers tons of gameplay for $30. Those that want to compete on the high end will have to put in more time/effort or possibly money if they change the shop down the line, but I can't see them going too crazy as clearly it backfires usually. Unless a good chunk of fans are fine with it and then great, company gets money, fans get to have fun, things continue as normal.
For KR where someone can buy CS items, sell them and turn around to buy gear, someone else had to obtain/upgrade it so it isn't impossible to do so without spending money. If CS offered gear itself (which I know happens sometimes) or it was better than what could be obtained at a normal human's ability, would be a bigger issue for me, but even the KR version doesn't seem to be that bad.
Either way it is always entertaining to hear from the peanut gallery that has no plan to play any of these games but have opinions on why they are so terrible. Clearly they aren't made for them. Not everyone wants to complain and point out flaws on forums forever. At least I don't.
Though as a whole, they implemented new potion health restrictions simply because people could not die and there were complaints. To have people not die again -- indefinitely -- will defeat the purpose.
They implemented that in Vindictus too. You can only take 50 cash shop HP potions with you.
But, they are far more powerful than what normal people can use, they allow you to use them during blocks and stuns, and they are far more health restored than what you can get in-gane. They are 4 times as powerful than in-game potions, give or take. And you can stack them with regular in-game potions.
Snip
Do you ever make a positive post on these forums? It seems that you put most of your effort in trolling whatever game you decide to not like at that moment in time. Who gives a shit about revive potions? The cash shop looks pretty fair to me and it seems like it does for a lot of other people in this thread.
You can post all the pictures you want and repeat yourself 10 more times for all anyone cares. It's still not going to change the fact that they released information about BDO's cash shop and what your saying is nothing more then speculation based on a different game run by the same company. Which in all honesty are 2 completely different types of games.
Well, it's logical and sufficient deductive reasoning to think that Revive Potions may become a problem with the evidence given. They would already be a concern by themselves when thinking of PvP aspects of the game, and the fact they are showing similar trends -- and have one of the same employees that might've worked on the cash shop of a game that does this before launch -- is definitely concerning.
Granted, quite a few things that Kiyoris has said about the game has been debunked by developer posts recently... but that doesn't mean things won't happen in the future, or that revive potions won't be a significant problem if we don't express our concerns about it now.
Make no mistake that revive potions without a cooldown will at the very least -- in my opinion -- be game play that isn't very engaging at best, P2W in PvP at worst. Battle of attrition for hours with in game currency players versus in game currency players and credit card players who bought potions beyond what was possible with what they earned in game by logging in.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
I didn't know the game is bleeding that bad in KR/RU, thanks for the info.
It's partly status in Korea.
If you buy an iPhone in Korea, you are not just buying an iPhone, you're buying status.
In the West people think showing off with money isn't cool. It's is douchey. Not so in Korea.
I'm fairly sure that a lot of Koreans who don't have the money will feel the same way about it. It's more human nature than anything else. And people in the west do it all the time if they can afford it, ranging from iPhones (which they then show off to everyone they know) to expensive cars and massive houses with a pimped out front yard and pool. xD
Even in games you see it happen all the time, although it's split there between those who buy things for money, and those clock sixteen hours a day so that they can have stuff that no one else has, for bragging rights. In both cases it all comes down to ego and status.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
I was under the impression that the reason players are leaving the game in KR and RU is because of the end game lack of PvE and the fact that the PK's are too restricted by the karma system, leaving nothing but guild v guild and the weekly node and seige events.
If there's no PvE and the PvP is restricted then yeah, people will be getting bored. Then they leave. I'm not sure it's just because of the cash shop. There are other factors at work.
Or am I completely wrong? So you guys that have played the KR/RU versions would know the answer to this right?
The reason I mention this is because it's not just the cash shop that is talked about in the press release, they make a big deal about going back and forth on this bounty system and trying to get more PK into the game.
I was under the impression that the reason players are leaving the game in KR and RU is because of the end game lack of PvE and the fact that the PK's are too restricted by the karma system, leaving nothing but guild v guild and the weekly node and seige events.
If there's no PvE and the PvP is restricted then yeah, people will be getting bored. Then they leave. I'm not sure it's just because of the cash shop. There are other factors at work.
Or am I completely wrong? So you guys that have played the KR/RU versions would know the answer to this right?
The reason I mention this is because it's not just the cash shop that is talked about in the press release, they make a big deal about going back and forth on this bounty system and trying to get more PK into the game.
It was very popular before they did the megaserver in KR; after that is when it started to bleed popularity and players. The megaserver has a ridiculous amount of channels; like twenty or more. So you can essentially avoid PvP if you wished. You can find a lot of this specific info on the official forums from the vets there.
I'd say it's a combination of the high karma penalties(You can lose both exp, enchants and gems when you die if it's too high), the megaserver with too many channels and possibly lack of PvE content and due from the channel systems; easy to avoid owpvp.
The Valenica update part 2 does help it in some cases; introducing the bandit town for criminals, lessening the karma penalties within this region, jail/bounty hunter systems, owpve dungeons and etc.
The revive potion only restores you to 20% hp, if used after a pvp death will just result in you being one hit usually after using it. Hardly an obstacle to overcome so the cash shop isn't the issue there. It's the megaserver with too many channels(This is why we only had 5 during CBT1), lack of pve and ability to avoid pvp.
I don't find the inference that they could, in the future, sell energy points on the market or even add P2W elements. Why? Because it's not a game with staying power.
It only has a finite amount of content to get through and I don't see the GvG as a compelling aspect of this game after not only seeing GvG sieges but large scale world events and how things both look and perform.
I'll end up playing it for a healthy portion of this year and probably move on to something else like Camelot Unchained or Star Citizen. There are also some other games like XCom2 that will be taking up my time.
As I've said before - and as they are stating the gameplan is the same:
1. At launch - max profits = max "box" sales as it's a B2P game - strategy - minimize cash shop - as this lures players in
2. After launch as box sales decline (this is normal and expected with every game) - increase cash shop sales and items to offset box sales decline
3. Once the box sales and cash shop are not making enough profit - switch to F2P + aggressive cash shop
This is a tried and true strategy - at least they are up front about it
Either way - expect cash shop to become increasingly more aggressive over time
Although that's true but I believe that mostly happens to games which are losing numbers. If a game becomes relatively "successful" and gains players as time passes they wouldn't actually need to make the cash shop more aggressive.
Every Game Loses Players Over Time
In case of Black Desert - players leaving the game after hitting max level is probably the biggest concern for Daum as they've seen a fast decline in playerbase in both Korea and Russia.
The whole push to add dungeons and more PvE content is a way of trying to retain more players post 50 because currently the PvE endgame is lacking in a big way.
"Every game loses players"- there was a time where that wasn't true. Obviously WoW grew quite substantially for a really long time.
The problem is every MMO released in recent memory has had major problems, which of course causes people to leave.
Just because population declined in games like Archeage, Wildstar or Neverwinter or some shit doesn't mean it will happen in this game.
If you're talking about an infinite amount of time, then sure.
****
By starting out with this almost completely non p2w model they are setting a standard for the game. If they change it too much over time there will be problems with the community and the game will die, just like all games that go p2w do.
One thing's for sure- the nightmare predictions of people opening their wallets and being unbeatable by 20 people are definitely not going to happen at launch, and probably will never happen in the game.
Anyway I'm super stoked to hear this news. Having no way at all to convert cash to in game currency is really really good news for the health prospects of the game.
At the very very least, we know now that launch and the months after will be fair. Super stoked to play!
I find these threads quite entertaining. It's a Korean port. Yeah, it's going to be P2W. They always are. At 1st there will be a nice honeymoon phase and the publisher will be on their best behavior. But Just wait The true colors will show. The real P2W will be in the end game area with RNG modifiers for real cash.
Tera wasn't p2w. The only other big Korean import I can think of is Archeage, and hell yeah it was p2w as hell but that's one case.
Even if you think TERA was p2w, there is a big difference between it and this game- you can't sell cash shop items in the auction house.
No Korean import has released with this at launch so that alone is a big difference. It could just be that the Devs have finally realized we're a different kind of market and don't like p2w.
There was no "honeymoon period" in Archeage other than the lack of resources being available to purchase for cash. As soon as they were available (after a couple of weeks) anyone could open their wallets and buy top gear.
At this point, doomsayers only have generalizations and slippery slope arguments to predict that the game will be p2w and fail.
The fact is nobody knows what's going to happen. But we can now be sure there will not be p2w at launch.
There is absolutely nothing they could announce that would convince you or others the game won't be p2w and fail because you've already made up your mind it will be, just because it originated in Korea.
Hamlet, me, you or anybody else don't have to guess jack shit when they have a concern about a game. Like I've said so many times, you can avoid being taken advantage of by simply waiting few months after launch to see what's going to happen. That's a very easy way to solve this first-world-'problem' but somehow that's too much for some people, you guys are so weak you can't resist the urge to play with a new shiny so you ignore logic and reason and talk yourselves into getting suckered into a yet another short term 'MMORPG".
Basically, you and players like you are part of the problem we have with this particular genre. Actually the MMORPG genre is as good as dead at this point because for years people treat MMOs like single player games, hopping from MMO to MMO like bunnies.
Clearly the developers take most of the blame for shamelessly taking unfair advantage of people weaknesses but the players have to take a part of the blame as well. Just like you can blame a producer of drugs and their dealers for someone's addiction but at some point you gonna have to blame the poor junky too.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
Hamlet, me, you or anybody else don't have to guess jack shit when they have a concern about a game. Like I've said so many times, you can avoid being taken advantage of by simply waiting few months after launch to see what's going to happen. That's a very easy way to solve this first-world-'problem' but somehow that's too much for some people, you guys are so weak you can't resist the urge to play with a new shiny so you ignore logic and reason and talk yourselves into getting suckered into a yet another short term 'MMORPG".
Basically, you and players like you are part of the problem we have with this particular genre. Actually the MMORPG genre is as good as dead at this point because for years people treat MMOs like single player games, hopping from MMO to MMO like bunnies.
Clearly the developers take most of the blame for shamelessly taking unfair advantage of people weaknesses but the players have to take a part of the blame as well. Just like you can blame a producer of drugs and their dealers for someone's addiction but at some point you gonna have to blame the poor junky too.
Or, I could play the first few months and completely guarantee myself a fair game experience, along with all the fun of playing an MMO when it's first released.
Even if I get just 1 month of playtime out of it and then every doomsayer becomes right and suddenly the game becomes completely p2w (even though there's no precident for that), I'll have gotten my value out of the box price.
If I get a few months, all the better.
You're right that people hop from MMOs, but there's a good reason for that- they all have sucked. If they were good, people would stick with them.
This one doesn't seem like it's going to suck and I already know I will enjoy it after playing the RU version and the closed beta 1. Based on my experience I can easily see myself spending at least a year in this game, which will be by far the longest I've spent in an MMO in like forever.
Anyway, I enjoy the fresh experience of a brand new MMO when everybody doesn't already know every little thing about the game, and in this specific case, it makes even less sense to wait.
They said they may at some point allow selling items from the cash shop on the marketplace. I don't believe that the game will actually ever become as p2w as it is in other regions, but there is potential it will lean that way a little bit after say 6 months if box sales drop off dramatically and people aren't using the shop much.
That's all the more reason to play it when it's released before that could potentially happen (although like I said, I don't think it will ever be nearly as bad as say Archeage even if they ramp up the shop for years progressively).
It's funny that no one even realizes that the people running the Pay2Win Nexon Vindictus cash shop are the same people running the Black Desert cash shop.
It's like most people jumping into Black Desert don't understand that every Korean MMO revolves around Pay2Win. This is their business model.
Notice any similarities?
lol
Vindictus
Black Desert
MASSIVE TROLL ALERT
Nexon EU and Daum EU are completely different companies whose offices are not even in the same country (Nexon EU is in Berlin, Daum EU is in Amsterdam).
That guy quit Nexon, most likely because they were mishandling Vindictus. Given the replies to that thread it seems quite clear that he was well-liked by the community over there - Someone who actually tried bringing the customer's concerns to the main Nexon office.
Seems like a good guy to me? Unless you want to say that Nexon is secretly controlling him to ruin Black Desert or something, if it's even the same guy (can you point me to his real name somewhere? Belsazar is a historical figure and not an uncommon nickname).
Or do you want to imply that he had full say in all of Nexon EU's business decisions, and will try to do the same with Black Desert? In which case, on what do you base this assertion? FYI: Nexon is infamous for pushing the same business model on all their games, from the main office.
Can you point to ANYTHING that supports your argument other than 'OMG these nicknames are the same!!!!'?
It's quite telling to see how many of the arguments in this thread have shifted away from condemning P2W, and have moved on to discussing "how bad" the P2W will be.
Many seem to have already accepted P2W, as long as it's not too "excessive" !
Give it a few more years and the discussions will be about which P2W game is most affordable...
It's quite telling to see how many of the arguments in this thread have shifted away from condemning P2W, and have moved on to discussing "how bad" the P2W will be.
Many seem to have already accepted P2W, as long as it's not too "excessive" !
Give it a few more years and the discussions will be about which P2W game is most affordable...
And yet people support games like Star Citizen with their $50 - $15,000 asset sales, a cash shop during alpha and the selling of currency post release.
It's quite telling to see how many of the arguments in this thread have shifted away from condemning P2W, and have moved on to discussing "how bad" the P2W will be.
Many seem to have already accepted P2W, as long as it's not too "excessive" !
Give it a few more years and the discussions will be about which P2W game is most affordable...
The definition of P2W has been shifting a lot.
People now define being able to sell cash shop items on the ingame market as being P2W, while lacking an understanding of the game's economy. Many people assume that the ingame money comes from nowhere - That you directly buy gold from the cash shop.
What they don't realize is that the ingame money has to be grinded out by another player. It does not come from nowhere. It cannot be bought in the cash shop.
The item you buy in the cash shop, that's what you buy - Not the ingame gold. What's even worse, if no one in the game is willing to buy your item, you're stuck with it - You are NOT guaranteed an ingame sale from a cash shop item.
And after selling the item - then what? You want to buy that juicy endgame item to use. But wait, that item doesn't come from nowhere either! What are you going to do with all that gold when no one is selling the item you need? Another hurdle. Those items also don't grow on trees, so you are NOT guaranteed to get what you want either!
So then you get your endgame item, finally, only to find out that there are loads of players who got it "legitimately" already. So you have to actually show some skill after all. How is this P2W?
There used to be (Chinese) games which offered actual gear with actual stats (some best in slot even), from which the entire P2W problem originated. Somehow this was warped into the current perception that being able to sell cash shop items is P2W. This is only a problem, and even then not a major one, in games with an insane gear grind (such as Archeage), where the maxed gear isn't readily available because of mucked up RNG. And yes, i still hope that BDO reverses enchanting gains on this as well.
And this also ignores a positive effect: When there is a legit, completely safe way of obtaining ingame money, why even bother going to shady looking gold sellers?
It's quite telling to see how many of the arguments in this thread have shifted away from condemning P2W, and have moved on to discussing "how bad" the P2W will be.
Many seem to have already accepted P2W, as long as it's not too "excessive" !
Give it a few more years and the discussions will be about which P2W game is most affordable...
And yet people support games like Star Citizen with their $50 - $15,000 asset sales, a cash shop during alpha and the selling of currency post release.
Star Citizen makes all other so-called p2w games seem like charities- and the real magic is that it hasn't even been released!
Comments
"You called the baby ugly"
When ever you can convert $$ to gold, you have firmly entered the p2w arena.
Click on that link and read.
Note:
"Launch Phase"
It specifically says "Launch Phase"
Then they say
- If we decide to enable selling Cash Shop Items at a later stage, there will be control mechanisms that will prevent players from heavily profiting and gaining an advantage by repetitively selling Cash Items on the marketplace
That means they are already planning it out.So the plan is to be able to profit with real cash but not "heavily"?
P2W.
The two most obvious real lame ones are 1/4/8 baggage space,they can't be serious selling 1 slot? roflmao that has to be the lamest yet of any game on the market or are they talking about entire bags like 1 bag 4 bags 8 bags or is that just single slots?
The second being ,transferring life skills xp to another player.I do remember ROM doing something sort of similar with an xp orb,not in favor of that stuff.
Other stuff like character slots and name changes are all ok in a cash shop.XP boosts not ok.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The important part is the control mechanisms being in place; no other company(atleast the ones I played) boldly stated they will control and possibly eliminate the advantage it would give. This is what people are clinging on to. Besides, the only competition BDO will have is BnS which is just as much at risk if not more to also be P2W among every other MMO in existence for that matter lol
At this moment for what I've seen in my time playing BDO silver is really easy to make, so no problem if the game continues to be fun. Make no mistake though, you are correct the systems are in place.
My take on this is that BDO is looking for that magical balance. They paid attention to ArcheAge and don't want to repeat that. But the game, like all these games, will ultimately cater to the spenders.
But I see this game as one of those movies that got a good cast, good director, excellent special effects but not a good script. Let's hope for the best though
I'll probably buy a bit at launch if it isn't too pricey, but it isn't really necessary. As there are vendors all over the world, taking a few minutes once in a while to sell isn't a giant hassle.
Assuming the transfer stuff is due to them not launching with all classes and making it easier to move to a new main. Not unlike WoW or whatever game that gives an instant max or close to max lvl character with new expansions and what not.
BDO offers tons of gameplay for $30. Those that want to compete on the high end will have to put in more time/effort or possibly money if they change the shop down the line, but I can't see them going too crazy as clearly it backfires usually. Unless a good chunk of fans are fine with it and then great, company gets money, fans get to have fun, things continue as normal.
For KR where someone can buy CS items, sell them and turn around to buy gear, someone else had to obtain/upgrade it so it isn't impossible to do so without spending money. If CS offered gear itself (which I know happens sometimes) or it was better than what could be obtained at a normal human's ability, would be a bigger issue for me, but even the KR version doesn't seem to be that bad.
Either way it is always entertaining to hear from the peanut gallery that has no plan to play any of these games but have opinions on why they are so terrible. Clearly they aren't made for them. Not everyone wants to complain and point out flaws on forums forever. At least I don't.
Well, it's logical and sufficient deductive reasoning to think that Revive Potions may become a problem with the evidence given. They would already be a concern by themselves when thinking of PvP aspects of the game, and the fact they are showing similar trends -- and have one of the same employees that might've worked on the cash shop of a game that does this before launch -- is definitely concerning.
Granted, quite a few things that Kiyoris has said about the game has been debunked by developer posts recently... but that doesn't mean things won't happen in the future, or that revive potions won't be a significant problem if we don't express our concerns about it now.
Make no mistake that revive potions without a cooldown will at the very least -- in my opinion -- be game play that isn't very engaging at best, P2W in PvP at worst. Battle of attrition for hours with in game currency players versus in game currency players and credit card players who bought potions beyond what was possible with what they earned in game by logging in.
If you buy an iPhone in Korea, you are not just buying an iPhone, you're buying status.
In the West people think showing off with money isn't cool. It's is douchey. Not so in Korea.
That stupid song "Gangnam Style", is about the wealth of the Gangnam district in Korea. The wealth and looks of the Korean elite.
Capitalist wealth in Asia is quite a new thing, people like to show off they have money. Including in MMO.
Korean MMO are built to show off, they are built around looks and money. That's why..they are the way they are.
But this is also why these MMO drop off a cliff after a few months. Because you're no longer a king when all the peasants have left.
Even in games you see it happen all the time, although it's split there between those who buy things for money, and those clock sixteen hours a day so that they can have stuff that no one else has, for bragging rights. In both cases it all comes down to ego and status.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
If there's no PvE and the PvP is restricted then yeah, people will be getting bored. Then they leave. I'm not sure it's just because of the cash shop. There are other factors at work.
Or am I completely wrong? So you guys that have played the KR/RU versions would know the answer to this right?
The reason I mention this is because it's not just the cash shop that is talked about in the press release, they make a big deal about going back and forth on this bounty system and trying to get more PK into the game.
I'd say it's a combination of the high karma penalties(You can lose both exp, enchants and gems when you die if it's too high), the megaserver with too many channels and possibly lack of PvE content and due from the channel systems; easy to avoid owpvp.
The Valenica update part 2 does help it in some cases; introducing the bandit town for criminals, lessening the karma penalties within this region, jail/bounty hunter systems, owpve dungeons and etc.
The revive potion only restores you to 20% hp, if used after a pvp death will just result in you being one hit usually after using it. Hardly an obstacle to overcome so the cash shop isn't the issue there. It's the megaserver with too many channels(This is why we only had 5 during CBT1), lack of pve and ability to avoid pvp.
It only has a finite amount of content to get through and I don't see the GvG as a compelling aspect of this game after not only seeing GvG sieges but large scale world events and how things both look and perform.
I'll end up playing it for a healthy portion of this year and probably move on to something else like Camelot Unchained or Star Citizen. There are also some other games like XCom2 that will be taking up my time.
The problem is every MMO released in recent memory has had major problems, which of course causes people to leave.
Just because population declined in games like Archeage, Wildstar or Neverwinter or some shit doesn't mean it will happen in this game.
If you're talking about an infinite amount of time, then sure.
****
By starting out with this almost completely non p2w model they are setting a standard for the game. If they change it too much over time there will be problems with the community and the game will die, just like all games that go p2w do.
One thing's for sure- the nightmare predictions of people opening their wallets and being unbeatable by 20 people are definitely not going to happen at launch, and probably will never happen in the game.
Anyway I'm super stoked to hear this news. Having no way at all to convert cash to in game currency is really really good news for the health prospects of the game.
At the very very least, we know now that launch and the months after will be fair. Super stoked to play!
Even if you think TERA was p2w, there is a big difference between it and this game- you can't sell cash shop items in the auction house.
No Korean import has released with this at launch so that alone is a big difference. It could just be that the Devs have finally realized we're a different kind of market and don't like p2w.
There was no "honeymoon period" in Archeage other than the lack of resources being available to purchase for cash. As soon as they were available (after a couple of weeks) anyone could open their wallets and buy top gear.
At this point, doomsayers only have generalizations and slippery slope arguments to predict that the game will be p2w and fail.
The fact is nobody knows what's going to happen. But we can now be sure there will not be p2w at launch.
There is absolutely nothing they could announce that would convince you or others the game won't be p2w and fail because you've already made up your mind it will be, just because it originated in Korea.
Like I've said so many times, you can avoid being taken advantage of by simply waiting few months after launch to see what's going to happen.
That's a very easy way to solve this first-world-'problem' but somehow that's too much for some people, you guys are so weak you can't resist the urge to play with a new shiny so you ignore logic and reason and talk yourselves into getting suckered into a yet another short term 'MMORPG".
Basically, you and players like you are part of the problem we have with this particular genre.
Actually the MMORPG genre is as good as dead at this point because for years people treat MMOs like single player games, hopping from MMO to MMO like bunnies.
Clearly the developers take most of the blame for shamelessly taking unfair advantage of people weaknesses but the players have to take a part of the blame as well.
Just like you can blame a producer of drugs and their dealers for someone's addiction but at some point you gonna have to blame the poor junky too.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.
Even if I get just 1 month of playtime out of it and then every doomsayer becomes right and suddenly the game becomes completely p2w (even though there's no precident for that), I'll have gotten my value out of the box price.
If I get a few months, all the better.
You're right that people hop from MMOs, but there's a good reason for that- they all have sucked. If they were good, people would stick with them.
This one doesn't seem like it's going to suck and I already know I will enjoy it after playing the RU version and the closed beta 1. Based on my experience I can easily see myself spending at least a year in this game, which will be by far the longest I've spent in an MMO in like forever.
Anyway, I enjoy the fresh experience of a brand new MMO when everybody doesn't already know every little thing about the game, and in this specific case, it makes even less sense to wait.
They said they may at some point allow selling items from the cash shop on the marketplace. I don't believe that the game will actually ever become as p2w as it is in other regions, but there is potential it will lean that way a little bit after say 6 months if box sales drop off dramatically and people aren't using the shop much.
That's all the more reason to play it when it's released before that could potentially happen (although like I said, I don't think it will ever be nearly as bad as say Archeage even if they ramp up the shop for years progressively).
Nexon EU and Daum EU are completely different companies whose offices are not even in the same country (Nexon EU is in Berlin, Daum EU is in Amsterdam).
Also:
http://forum.nexoneu.com/showthread.php?1467207-Retirement-of-NX-Belsazar
That guy quit Nexon, most likely because they were mishandling Vindictus. Given the replies to that thread it seems quite clear that he was well-liked by the community over there - Someone who actually tried bringing the customer's concerns to the main Nexon office.
Seems like a good guy to me? Unless you want to say that Nexon is secretly controlling him to ruin Black Desert or something, if it's even the same guy (can you point me to his real name somewhere? Belsazar is a historical figure and not an uncommon nickname).
Or do you want to imply that he had full say in all of Nexon EU's business decisions, and will try to do the same with Black Desert? In which case, on what do you base this assertion? FYI: Nexon is infamous for pushing the same business model on all their games, from the main office.
Can you point to ANYTHING that supports your argument other than 'OMG these nicknames are the same!!!!'?
Playing: WF
Played: WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL (2005), GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH (RIP), STO, TSW, TERA, EVE, ESO, BDO
Tried: EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus, AA
Many seem to have already accepted P2W, as long as it's not too "excessive" !
Give it a few more years and the discussions will be about which P2W game is most affordable...
And yet people support games like Star Citizen with their $50 - $15,000 asset sales, a cash shop during alpha and the selling of currency post release.
People now define being able to sell cash shop items on the ingame market as being P2W, while lacking an understanding of the game's economy. Many people assume that the ingame money comes from nowhere - That you directly buy gold from the cash shop.
What they don't realize is that the ingame money has to be grinded out by another player. It does not come from nowhere. It cannot be bought in the cash shop.
The item you buy in the cash shop, that's what you buy - Not the ingame gold. What's even worse, if no one in the game is willing to buy your item, you're stuck with it - You are NOT guaranteed an ingame sale from a cash shop item.
And after selling the item - then what? You want to buy that juicy endgame item to use. But wait, that item doesn't come from nowhere either! What are you going to do with all that gold when no one is selling the item you need? Another hurdle. Those items also don't grow on trees, so you are NOT guaranteed to get what you want either!
So then you get your endgame item, finally, only to find out that there are loads of players who got it "legitimately" already. So you have to actually show some skill after all. How is this P2W?
There used to be (Chinese) games which offered actual gear with actual stats (some best in slot even), from which the entire P2W problem originated. Somehow this was warped into the current perception that being able to sell cash shop items is P2W. This is only a problem, and even then not a major one, in games with an insane gear grind (such as Archeage), where the maxed gear isn't readily available because of mucked up RNG. And yes, i still hope that BDO reverses enchanting gains on this as well.
And this also ignores a positive effect: When there is a legit, completely safe way of obtaining ingame money, why even bother going to shady looking gold sellers?
Playing: WF
Played: WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL (2005), GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH (RIP), STO, TSW, TERA, EVE, ESO, BDO
Tried: EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus, AA