There are many scientific things in the real world that are quite interesting that you probably don't know about. They would make for a more interesting game than clicking on ! mark and walking to ? I'm sure.
Sure .. but you don't need a virtual world to have a science base puzzle game.
Combat or not, the virtual world itself does not always add value to the gameplay. To use a non-combat example .. i enjoy Portal 2 greatly .. and you don't need a virtual world to have the kind of fun puzzle levels.
How about Dishonored? You can sneak through all the enemies without combat. You don't need a virtual world sim, you just need good level design.
In fact, it would be horrible to add "realism" to these games. Can you imagine wasting time going to a virtual bathroom or eat a virtual burger in between levels? I am glad these are games, not virtual worlds.
I'm mostly trying to point out that there are a lot of interesting things about the real world and real life. Not all of it is something that needs to be discarded because it is real.
Or included because it is real.
The only yard stick is whether it will add fun (to whatever audience) in a game. Whether it is real or not is immaterial.
I'm mostly trying to point out that there are a lot of interesting things about the real world and real life. Not all of it is something that needs to be discarded because it is real.
Or included because it is real.
The only yard stick is whether it will add fun (to whatever audience) in a game. Whether it is real or not is immaterial.
oh no...no no no. for me 'real(ish) is very material. Its why I play first person perspective games and often refrain from 3rd person. i want to feel like its another reality and often at least in the games I play I do get that effect personally.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
The only yard stick is whether it will add fun (to whatever audience) in a game.
You said it yourself. "to whatever audience". The people that just said they find entertainment/value in it are part of the audience that wants such things.
Behold the power of multiple demographics with different preferences.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I'm mostly trying to point out that there are a lot of interesting things about the real world and real life. Not all of it is something that needs to be discarded because it is real.
Or included because it is real.
The only yard stick is whether it will add fun (to whatever audience) in a game. Whether it is real or not is immaterial.
oh no...no no no. for me 'real(ish) is very material. Its why I play first person perspective games and often refrain from 3rd person. i want to feel like its another reality and often at least in the games I play I do get that effect personally.
really? Would you do virtual paperwork 8 hours a day in a virtual world to pay virtual rent, just because it is "realistic"?
It must be me ... and i thought people are just playing games for fun ... i guess not.
I'm mostly trying to point out that there are a lot of interesting things about the real world and real life. Not all of it is something that needs to be discarded because it is real.
Or included because it is real.
The only yard stick is whether it will add fun (to whatever audience) in a game. Whether it is real or not is immaterial.
oh no...no no no. for me 'real(ish) is very material. Its why I play first person perspective games and often refrain from 3rd person. i want to feel like its another reality and often at least in the games I play I do get that effect personally.
really? Would you do virtual paperwork 8 hours a day in a virtual world to pay virtual rent, just because it is "realistic"?
It must be me ... and i thought people are just playing games for fun ... i guess not.
I am not here to debate over what is or is not realism or what feels real and what doesnt feel real. I am telling you point blank I look for games that make me personally feel as if its a real world I am in and in those games i FEEL as if that is the case. You can not perpare yourself enough to argue with somoene who is talking about how they FEEL something is rather than what it ACTUALLY is so dont even be that guy.
to put thing more concete the path you are about go on down is 'what is or is not porn', 'what is or is not love', and then to argue with someone that they dont feel in love even when they tell you that they do.
think hard on that path you are about to go down
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I'm mostly trying to point out that there are a lot of interesting things about the real world and real life. Not all of it is something that needs to be discarded because it is real.
Or included because it is real.
The only yard stick is whether it will add fun (to whatever audience) in a game. Whether it is real or not is immaterial.
oh no...no no no. for me 'real(ish) is very material. Its why I play first person perspective games and often refrain from 3rd person. i want to feel like its another reality and often at least in the games I play I do get that effect personally.
really? Would you do virtual paperwork 8 hours a day in a virtual world to pay virtual rent, just because it is "realistic"?
It must be me ... and i thought people are just playing games for fun ... i guess not.
No but you might be interested in seeing what herbs make up a certain type of formula that cures a certain poison (which is viable in real life as well). Then again some people might like to do paperwork for 8 hours in a virtual game. I've seen people who sat for hours mining rocks. I did the same thing in some older MMOs.
I find hunting, fishing, geography, archaeology, mining, crafting items into materials, working with metals, working with chemicals, the wind, gravity, the stars, storms, grass, trees, and many other things to be interesting. Besides everything in a game is based on something from reality in some form.
really? Would you do virtual paperwork 8 hours a day in a virtual world to pay virtual rent, just because it is "realistic"?
It must be me ... and i thought people are just playing games for fun ... i guess not.
Not sure how you can generalize what others say and fallaciously constructing into something you always seem to find distasteful and 'not needed' like a Perez Hilton of gaming. There are games some may like 'Papers, please' which is exactly paper pushing. Farming simulator, trucking simulators, fishing simulators etc. etc. Just sayin', different strokes for different folks.
really? Would you do virtual paperwork 8 hours a day in a virtual world to pay virtual rent, just because it is "realistic"?
It must be me ... and i thought people are just playing games for fun ... i guess not.
Not sure how you can generalize what others say and fallaciously constructing into something you always seem to find distasteful and 'not needed' like a Perez Hilton of gaming. There are games some may like 'Papers, please' which is exactly paper pushing. Farming simulator, trucking simulators, fishing simulators etc. etc. Just sayin', different strokes for different folks.
Did i? I just ask a question, and want to see how far people will go in the name of "realism".
Yeah, I certainly know of the farming simulators but I do not know there is actually a paper pushing game. I guess human nature is just fascinating, and it is a discovery of its own to see what others will do in the name of "entertainment".
I've seen people who sat for hours mining rocks. I did the same thing in some older MMOs.
It is fascinating to see what others would consider "fun". Sitting hours to click on a rock .... aside from "wow" .. i am speechless.
BTW, you don't need a virtual world to have that (or archaeology, or alchemy .. or any of those things you listed). I can write a simple rock clicking simulator by tonight. Would you play it for hours if I use the most realistic rock surface texture so that it is extremely "realistic"?
really? Would you do virtual paperwork 8 hours a day in a virtual world to pay virtual rent, just because it is "realistic"?
It must be me ... and i thought people are just playing games for fun ... i guess not.
Not sure how you can generalize what others say and fallaciously constructing into something you always seem to find distasteful and 'not needed' like a Perez Hilton of gaming. There are games some may like 'Papers, please' which is exactly paper pushing. Farming simulator, trucking simulators, fishing simulators etc. etc. Just sayin', different strokes for different folks.
Did i? I just ask a question, and want to see how far people will go in the name of "realism".
Yeah, I certainly know of the farming simulators but I do not know there is actually a paper pushing game. I guess human nature is just fascinating, and it is a discovery of its own to see what others will do in the name of "entertainment".
I'm surprised you are not interested in how farming works or how paper is made. That is actually more entertaining to me then following ! around and killing y. That's why I watch more documentaries then play games now I guess. Sometimes I think I should really be learning how to make paper (not just thinking of having it possible to do in game) or learning how to farm. Both are interesting and useful skills to know. Learning about how to do it in a game would just be a bonus. Of course there are many other interesting things in the world we live in. Even the way we go to the bathroom and what our poop looks like can teach us a lot about our state of health. The point is this type of thing is interesting and helps us to understand ourselves. It's a huge bonus when we can have something that's fun and a learning tool IMO.
really? Would you do virtual paperwork 8 hours a day in a virtual world to pay virtual rent, just because it is "realistic"?
It must be me ... and i thought people are just playing games for fun ... i guess not.
Not sure how you can generalize what others say and fallaciously constructing into something you always seem to find distasteful and 'not needed' like a Perez Hilton of gaming. There are games some may like 'Papers, please' which is exactly paper pushing. Farming simulator, trucking simulators, fishing simulators etc. etc. Just sayin', different strokes for different folks.
Did i? I just ask a question, and want to see how far people will go in the name of "realism".
Yeah, I certainly know of the farming simulators but I do not know there is actually a paper pushing game. I guess human nature is just fascinating, and it is a discovery of its own to see what others will do in the name of "entertainment".
oh you are going down dangerous ground.
its similar to trying to debate with somoeone on logic as to why they are not in love even when they tell you that they are.
There are answers to your debate questions and there are ways to bury it but its complex and long. needless to say there is without question an associate that makes a person FEEL its real and other things FEEL not real and that is all we are talking about here.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
basically you are about to open a door that will find you suggesting to others that they should enjoy on a 'realism' level tick tack toe as much as a game like wurm because they cant replicate the pain of their terrible job.
its about to get really ugly
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
nariusseldon said: I guess human nature is just fascinating, and it is a discovery of its own to see what others will do in the name of "entertainment".
As for what people find entertaining I can certainly say that I don't get many of the trends that people seem to love. I accept others will like things I don't even if it perplexes me but I do respect their freedom to choose whatever form of entertainment they want, so long as it's legal. :pleased:
So you are saying what qualifies for a virtual world. I would say that it would have to mimic most things in real life.
As Nari pointed out there are some things that probably can be omitted like going to the bathroom.
I'm mostly trying to point out that there are a lot of interesting things about the real world and real life. Not all of it is something that needs to be discarded because it is real.
I haven't tried Wurm Online so I can't comment on weather I think it's a virtual world or not.
fair enough.
I personally think 'virtual worlds' is a hard thing to define but its a bit like porn, you know it when you see it and for me I think there are plenty of virtual worlds.
My MMOs projects and homes are just as real to me as real life is which for me makes it a virtual world so to speak.
I'm also thinking virtual ecosystems and mobs that mimic intelligent beings.
As an example: instead of walking through the jungle and into a leppard and fight. It would be more like a real leppard and know your coming before you know it's there and maybe track you and attack your back when you're not expecting it.
So you are saying what qualifies for a virtual world. I would say that it would have to mimic most things in real life.
As Nari pointed out there are some things that probably can be omitted like going to the bathroom.
I'm mostly trying to point out that there are a lot of interesting things about the real world and real life. Not all of it is something that needs to be discarded because it is real.
I haven't tried Wurm Online so I can't comment on weather I think it's a virtual world or not.
fair enough.
I personally think 'virtual worlds' is a hard thing to define but its a bit like porn, you know it when you see it and for me I think there are plenty of virtual worlds.
My MMOs projects and homes are just as real to me as real life is which for me makes it a virtual world so to speak.
I'm also thinking virtual ecosystems and mobs that mimic intelligent beings.
As an example: instead of walking through the jungle and into a leppard and fight. It would be more like a real leppard and know your coming before you know it's there and maybe track you and attack your back when you're not expecting it.
which is technically possible, just good AI vs bad AI.
regardless its dicy getting into 'realism' debates because it often misses the target.
Its not an intellectual exercise. If the game FEELs to you that its another world that you are active in then its a virtual world. Otherwise we would end up spending trillions of dollars on something we basiclaly dont want to be around ....a real...real world
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Be careful what you wish for... since it will obviously be way less fun to play than you can think it would be.
exact!
I dont think real papercuts in a game would be fun.
I think the AI he suggests is interesting. It would allow for a lot of different scenarios to play out. It would also do away with the easy kill everyone seems to complain about in old games. A good hunter could learn different ways to hunt specific creatures.
A papercut is pretty useless IMO, but it could be used as an RPG ploy. Something like assassinating the king by putting poison on the edge of a sharp document. It could also be a funny imaginary weapon that has nothing to real life. The paper sword. Death by 1000 cuts.
Be careful what you wish for... since it will obviously be way less fun to play than you can think it would be.
exact!
I dont think real papercuts in a game would be fun.
I think the AI he suggests is interesting. It would allow for a lot of different scenarios to play out. It would also do away with the easy kill everyone seems to complain about in old games. A good hunter could learn different ways to hunt specific creatures.
A papercut is pretty useless IMO, but it could be used as an RPG ploy. Something like assassinating the king by putting poison on the edge of a sharp document. It could also be a funny imaginary weapon that has nothing to real life. The paper sword. Death by 1000 cuts.
true points on both counts.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Tier 1 example (by tier 1 I mean it can be linked to more complexity as you need it) This example is real but might not be 100% accurate.
Guild wants to build a boat: As a result among many things they need: 1. a astrolabe which is a rare drop from a few mob types 2. gun powder which is a crafted item from 3 different source and all three different sources are drops from different mobs OR can be mined for random drops.
guild now gathers together to do various mobs in various places based on what they need to build their ship. Ah however some of those mobs are terrain specific so to get some you have to go do desert and to get others you have to go to arctic.
I just described Darkfall Ship building.
----------------------------------------------- Could it be more complex? OF COURSE. EVE for example if you want to manufacture something you need specific planets to mine and manufacture specific goods. Crafting could involved multiple componets or blessings from an NPC which require you do to various tasks.
What makes it all better is: 1. you dont have to do any of it to still progress, it depends on what you are making or the mats you are selling 2. you dont have to do them in order, you collect the mats in the order you want
You seem serious, so I'll give you a serious response.
What does "rare drop" mean? It means for the next hour, you're killing one type of mob.
What does "questing" mean? It means for the next hour you're doing 10-15 different activities, killing 10-20 different types of mobs.
What does "variety" mean? It means doing different things. (Not killing one type of mob repetitively.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
So you are saying what qualifies for a virtual world. I would say that it would have to mimic most things in real life.
As Nari pointed out there are some things that probably can be omitted like going to the bathroom.
I'm mostly trying to point out that there are a lot of interesting things about the real world and real life. Not all of it is something that needs to be discarded because it is real.
I haven't tried Wurm Online so I can't comment on weather I think it's a virtual world or not.
fair enough.
I personally think 'virtual worlds' is a hard thing to define but its a bit like porn, you know it when you see it and for me I think there are plenty of virtual worlds.
My MMOs projects and homes are just as real to me as real life is which for me makes it a virtual world so to speak.
I'm also thinking virtual ecosystems and mobs that mimic intelligent beings.
As an example: instead of walking through the jungle and into a leppard and fight. It would be more like a real leppard and know your coming before you know it's there and maybe track you and attack your back when you're not expecting it.
Be careful what you wish for... since it will obviously be way less fun to play than you can think it would be.
Really? Thought it all through? Please enlighten me on what's so obvious.
The main goals in my thoughts are about how to make things less predictable. Predictable is boring, but it is also safe.
Unpredictable can be exciting and dangerous, keeps things fresh. Spreadsheet types hate Unpredictability.
So you are saying what qualifies for a virtual world. I would say that it would have to mimic most things in real life.
As Nari pointed out there are some things that probably can be omitted like going to the bathroom.
I'm mostly trying to point out that there are a lot of interesting things about the real world and real life. Not all of it is something that needs to be discarded because it is real.
I haven't tried Wurm Online so I can't comment on weather I think it's a virtual world or not.
fair enough.
I personally think 'virtual worlds' is a hard thing to define but its a bit like porn, you know it when you see it and for me I think there are plenty of virtual worlds.
My MMOs projects and homes are just as real to me as real life is which for me makes it a virtual world so to speak.
I'm also thinking virtual ecosystems and mobs that mimic intelligent beings.
As an example: instead of walking through the jungle and into a leppard and fight. It would be more like a real leppard and know your coming before you know it's there and maybe track you and attack your back when you're not expecting it.
Be careful what you wish for... since it will obviously be way less fun to play than you can think it would be.
Really? Thought it all through? Please enlighten me on what's so obvious.
The main goals in my thoughts are about how to make things less predictable. Predictable is boring, but it is also safe.
Unpredictable can be exciting and dangerous, keeps things fresh. Spreadsheet types hate Unpredictability.
How much fun will be a game when you just died for the third time to a leopard you weren't able to detect or 'predict'? Games are about tactics, how to survive and thrive, not about how to play the lottery about how not to be one hit by some invisible enemy.
Quick to jump to conclusions
It's all about Balance.
Yes it would suck if the leppard on shot the player from behind. The trick is to have the leppard almost kill the player. Barely surviving and coming out on top of an encounter is what puts the biggest smile on a player's face.
Comments
Combat or not, the virtual world itself does not always add value to the gameplay. To use a non-combat example .. i enjoy Portal 2 greatly .. and you don't need a virtual world to have the kind of fun puzzle levels.
How about Dishonored? You can sneak through all the enemies without combat. You don't need a virtual world sim, you just need good level design.
In fact, it would be horrible to add "realism" to these games. Can you imagine wasting time going to a virtual bathroom or eat a virtual burger in between levels? I am glad these are games, not virtual worlds.
The only yard stick is whether it will add fun (to whatever audience) in a game. Whether it is real or not is immaterial.
for me 'real(ish) is very material. Its why I play first person perspective games and often refrain from 3rd person. i want to feel like its another reality and often at least in the games I play I do get that effect personally.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Behold the power of multiple demographics with different preferences.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
It must be me ... and i thought people are just playing games for fun ... i guess not.
As already pointed out "different strokes for different folks". Just because you don't find something fun doesn't make it not-fun for someone else.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
to put thing more concete the path you are about go on down is 'what is or is not porn', 'what is or is not love', and then to argue with someone that they dont feel in love even when they tell you that they do.
think hard on that path you are about to go down
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I find hunting, fishing, geography, archaeology, mining, crafting items into materials, working with metals, working with chemicals, the wind, gravity, the stars, storms, grass, trees, and many other things to be interesting. Besides everything in a game is based on something from reality in some form.
There are games some may like 'Papers, please' which is exactly paper pushing. Farming simulator, trucking simulators, fishing simulators etc. etc.
Just sayin', different strokes for different folks.
Yeah, I certainly know of the farming simulators but I do not know there is actually a paper pushing game. I guess human nature is just fascinating, and it is a discovery of its own to see what others will do in the name of "entertainment".
It is fascinating to see what others would consider "fun". Sitting hours to click on a rock .... aside from "wow" .. i am speechless.
BTW, you don't need a virtual world to have that (or archaeology, or alchemy .. or any of those things you listed). I can write a simple rock clicking simulator by tonight. Would you play it for hours if I use the most realistic rock surface texture so that it is extremely "realistic"?
its similar to trying to debate with somoeone on logic as to why they are not in love even when they tell you that they are.
There are answers to your debate questions and there are ways to bury it but its complex and long. needless to say there is without question an associate that makes a person FEEL its real and other things FEEL not real and that is all we are talking about here.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
basically you are about to open a door that will find you suggesting to others that they should enjoy on a 'realism' level tick tack toe as much as a game like wurm because they cant replicate the pain of their terrible job.
its about to get really ugly
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
As an example: instead of walking through the jungle and into a leppard and fight. It would be more like a real leppard and know your coming before you know it's there and maybe track you and attack your back when you're not expecting it.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
regardless its dicy getting into 'realism' debates because it often misses the target.
Its not an intellectual exercise. If the game FEELs to you that its another world that you are active in then its a virtual world. Otherwise we would end up spending trillions of dollars on something we basiclaly dont want to be around ....a real...real world
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I dont think real papercuts in a game would be fun.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
A papercut is pretty useless IMO, but it could be used as an RPG ploy. Something like assassinating the king by putting poison on the edge of a sharp document. It could also be a funny imaginary weapon that has nothing to real life. The paper sword. Death by 1000 cuts.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
What does "rare drop" mean? It means for the next hour, you're killing one type of mob.
What does "questing" mean? It means for the next hour you're doing 10-15 different activities, killing 10-20 different types of mobs.
What does "variety" mean? It means doing different things. (Not killing one type of mob repetitively.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
The main goals in my thoughts are about how to make things less predictable. Predictable is boring, but it is also safe.
Unpredictable can be exciting and dangerous, keeps things fresh. Spreadsheet types hate Unpredictability.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
It's all about Balance.
Yes it would suck if the leppard on shot the player from behind. The trick is to have the leppard almost kill the player. Barely surviving and coming out on top of an encounter is what puts the biggest smile on a player's face.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee