Charge Back and Refunds

TheYear1500

Distopia said:

rpmcmurphy said:

Distopia said:

You just said yourself up to a month ago they were offering refunds, which is how many years after the original kickstarter? Sorry I find the assertion that people investing into crowd-funding are victims in such a situation. An actual scam? Sure, victims a-plenty, a game changing scope? No.

Nothing more than trying to place yourself on higher ground... IS a person losing in the market a victim? No, their judgment as well as foresight were poor...

That's because they had to. They were bound by their T&Cs that if a sizable portion of the game was not delivered within 12 months of their ETA then people could get a full refund.

The change occurred when they delivered patch 2.0 because despite it only being 1 of 100 promised star systems and perhaps 2% of the promised game mechanics they were now claiming it was a sizable enough portion of the game that justified the right to deny refunds, when it clearly isn't a large slice of the final game.

Either way that was a huge window available for people to back out. How exactly are those who didn't victims? We're talking years here..

Yet again incorrect, the window for refunds was very small.  CIG were not giving refunds to the majority of people asking, then DS happened and a window of refunds happened.  I asked for one, it took 6 weeks before I got a response, they waited 6 weeks for 2.0 to release in order to say no to my refund.  

Erillion

Kefo said:

There you go quoting that star citizens number again . 1.26 million people are not star citizens as someone could have multiple accounts and many probably signed up for a free fly and then promptly left forever

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals

"Star Citizens" = 1,262,870  (as of **DING** now)

Feel free to debate that number (and how many genuine persons are behind that) with the SC homepage admins.  I just quote it because its the officially available number.

And for the meaning of the post the exact HIGH number does not matter:

"It is simply not feasible to create something that 100 % satisfies 100 % of the people.
In that case umpteenth "Star Citizens" with sometimes mutually exclusive expectations."



Have fun

TheYear1500

Erillion said:

CrazKanuk said:

 Actually, I'd go as far as to say that your expectation is that the game will be whatever it is that you've made up in your head. 

Exactly.

It is simply not feasible to create something that 100 % satisfies 100 % of the people. In that case 1.26 million "Star Citizens" with sometimes mutually exclusive expectations.

For example i would like to see SWG style crafting in SC - while many PvP players are vehemently against this.

It is a given that there will be salty tears once SC goes live, no matter if its a perfect "Game of the Year" or a steaming pile of dung. Someone will always be upset and cry us a river on the forums. This was the case since the MMO genre started.


Have fun

Yet again you misrepresent that number.  Why do you keep making us correct your misinformation?

1.26 million is the number of people that have created accounts on the website, including people that have created multiple accounts (and like EVE there are many).  

Erillion

TheYear1500 said:

Yet again you misrepresent that number.  Why do you keep making us correct your misinformation?

1.26 million is the number of people that have created accounts on the website, including people that have created multiple accounts (and like EVE there are many).  

Scroll up.


Have fun

Shodanas

TheYear1500 said:

Erillion said:

CrazKanuk said:

 Actually, I'd go as far as to say that your expectation is that the game will be whatever it is that you've made up in your head. 

Exactly.

It is simply not feasible to create something that 100 % satisfies 100 % of the people. In that case 1.26 million "Star Citizens" with sometimes mutually exclusive expectations.

For example i would like to see SWG style crafting in SC - while many PvP players are vehemently against this.

It is a given that there will be salty tears once SC goes live, no matter if its a perfect "Game of the Year" or a steaming pile of dung. Someone will always be upset and cry us a river on the forums. This was the case since the MMO genre started.


Have fun

Yet again you misrepresent that number.  Why do you keep making us correct your misinformation?

1.26 million is the number of people that have created accounts on the website, including people that have created multiple accounts (and like EVE there are many).  

Okay, Since Erilion keeps spreading misinformation why don't you do the right thing and provide us the figure of the multiple account owners ?

rpmcmurphy

Shodanas said:

Okay, Since Erilion keeps spreading misinformation why don't you do the right thing and provide us the figure of the multiple account owners ?

Just so things are fair perhaps you'd like to do the same for EVE while he does that for SC?

rodarin

rpmcmurphy said:

Shodanas said:

Okay, Since Erilion keeps spreading misinformation why don't you do the right thing and provide us the figure of the multiple account owners ?

Just so things are fair perhaps you'd like to do the same for EVE while he does that for SC?

Why does it matter?  EVE is an actual released game and has been in release for over a decade now.

While I am no EVE white Knight (havent played it in 3 or 4 years) it was basically the only other game besides WOW to actually gain players after it released.

These numbers are all irrelevant in the end sort of like numbers of members of a church, just because a church/religion claims a billion members certainly doesnt mean theyre all practicing or active.

JohnP0100

As I've predicted in my OP,  the mental gymnastic by fanboys are in full display here.

From the ‘victim blaming’ to 'it is not possible to meet what they said they would’ a litany of excuses for CIG that
1. publicly declares they are not making product A as promised but product B
2. Will no longer provide deadlines
3. Refuses refunds for customers and resorts to threatening words when responding to people that are looking to use the customer protection process ‘charge backs’

I would like to say again that i went down the charge back process and got my money back. Some people are now saying that there is a note attached to CIG at the credit card company and charge backs occur more quickly. I cannot confirm this but even if there is no note,  just provide links to CIG  declaring it is making a different game and the statement by Chris Roberts ‘we will no longer provide deadlines’.

TheYear1500

Shodanas said:

TheYear1500 said:

Erillion said:

CrazKanuk said:

 Actually, I'd go as far as to say that your expectation is that the game will be whatever it is that you've made up in your head. 

Exactly.

It is simply not feasible to create something that 100 % satisfies 100 % of the people. In that case 1.26 million "Star Citizens" with sometimes mutually exclusive expectations.

For example i would like to see SWG style crafting in SC - while many PvP players are vehemently against this.

It is a given that there will be salty tears once SC goes live, no matter if its a perfect "Game of the Year" or a steaming pile of dung. Someone will always be upset and cry us a river on the forums. This was the case since the MMO genre started.


Have fun

Yet again you misrepresent that number.  Why do you keep making us correct your misinformation?

1.26 million is the number of people that have created accounts on the website, including people that have created multiple accounts (and like EVE there are many).  

Okay, Since Erilion keeps spreading misinformation why don't you do the right thing and provide us the figure of the multiple account owners ?

Sure, just as soon as CIG starts being an open development company.  

Shodanas

rpmcmurphy said:

Shodanas said:

Okay, Since Erilion keeps spreading misinformation why don't you do the right thing and provide us the figure of the multiple account owners ?

Just so things are fair perhaps you'd like to do the same for EVE while he does that for SC?

I am not the one who talked about multiple accounts mister.

The ones making the statements are expected to provide the relevant info.

TheYear1500

Shodanas said:

rpmcmurphy said:

Shodanas said:

Okay, Since Erilion keeps spreading misinformation why don't you do the right thing and provide us the figure of the multiple account owners ?

Just so things are fair perhaps you'd like to do the same for EVE while he does that for SC?

I am not the one who talked about multiple accounts mister.

The ones making the statements are expected to provide the relevant info.

I already did.  Are you trying to say there are no multiple accounts?  

TheYear1500

Erillion said:

TheYear1500 said:

Yet again you misrepresent that number.  Why do you keep making us correct your misinformation?

1.26 million is the number of people that have created accounts on the website, including people that have created multiple accounts (and like EVE there are many).  

Scroll up.


Have fun

Ya funny how people have to keep correcting you. 

rpmcmurphy

Shodanas said:

rpmcmurphy said:

Shodanas said:

Okay, Since Erilion keeps spreading misinformation why don't you do the right thing and provide us the figure of the multiple account owners ?

Just so things are fair perhaps you'd like to do the same for EVE while he does that for SC?

I am not the one who talked about multiple accounts mister.

The ones making the statements are expected to provide the relevant info.

Doesn't matter son. You know full well that he can't come back with official numbers so it was a silly, pointless, deflective request to make in the first place and therefore you deserved a silly, pointless response in return.

Have fun

JohnP0100

No off-topic discussion please.

thundercles

They need to add a "batshit crazy" button to posts. These posts are out of control.

Adjuvant1

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/317556/sad-to-report

Shodanas

Adjuvant1 said:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/317556/sad-to-report

"I am sure RSI is devolping a fantastic one"

"I didn't fully understand RSI's dedication and level of detail that was going into this game and how long it would take to achieve their goals."

He gives them credit for building a fantastic game and praises their dedication and level of detail they put into the project.

Brenics

@Adjuvant1 Been waiting for them to lock the forums to only backers soon. Lot of threads last few days getting negative about pre-alpha. 

Adjuvant1

I felt it appropriate because it is indicative of the issue a number of long-time backers, for whatever reason want out. There is, in fact, a large current market for people buying and selling CIG accounts, which I probably can't link here because it would get moderated.

Still, the fact such discussion exists is demonstrable to the point "charge-back" and "refund" are not the only two options. People on the official forums "know" their peers want out. People on the official forums "know" whole accounts are changing hands.

rodarin

Adjuvant1 said:

I felt it appropriate because it is indicative of the issue a number of long-time backers, for whatever reason want out. There is, in fact, a large current market for people buying and selling CIG accounts, which I probably can't link here because it would get moderated.

Still, the fact such discussion exists is demonstrable to the point "charge-back" and "refund" are not the only two options. People on the official forums "know" their peers want out. People on the official forums "know" whole accounts are changing hands.

That may have been by design though. Guys buying ships with the sole purpose if selling them. Hype train might be dying so they may have missed the boat on selling accounts for big money and if they never had any intention of playing the game they may have to sell at a loss right now especially if they have an account few a few thousand dollars worth of ships on it.

JohnP0100

The grey market of www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_trades is a way for people wanting out to get out.
Can't see the link being banned on this forum as it is a subreddit that CIG acknowledged in the past.

I personally will go down the chargeback route as it is a grey market so you won't have much (if any) protection even through a ‘trusted’ middle man.
Also the grey market crashed hard recently so it'll be difficult to get all of your money back.

The thread is about refunds and if people want out because the company decides to make something else they should be able to. As a customer, the method of refund doesn't really matter.

Arglebargle

As confidence wanes, the 'Ship Bubble' may burst.  Perhaps the reason the grey market is down and that CIG made its move against refunds. 

JohnP0100

Arglebargle said:

As confidence wanes, the 'Ship Bubble' may burst.  Perhaps the reason the grey market is down and that CIG made its move against refunds. 

I'd say it already bursted. The first two pages of that subreddit has 50 entries and 2 are buy,  rest are sells as of this moment. Yeah,  this grey market bursted and is now in freefall.

Distopia

JohnP0100 said:

CIG publicly declares they will not make what they said they would in the Kickstarter.
"Backer's foresight were poor and the customers who pledged to this are not victims of fraud'  - Distopia 2016

I mean, why don't backers just read the future to avoid situation like this? Oh wait....

You know there is a difference between bad management and committing fraud right?

Distopia

BeansnBread said:

Nice opinion, haven't really found what exactly CIG did that would be officially stamped as illegal with solid proof to back it up.

So far people just throwing opinions around trying to state them as facts is all we've been seeing.

But carry on.

Exactly, there was nothing illegal and being a victim doesn't require a crime.

You do realize that's exactly what the OP was trying to argue has happened?