As bad as the MMO genre is right now no one is goign to pay 25 bux a months for one. Simply because it couldnt be THAT much better than wha there already is, or...nothing.
Huh? People drop THOUSANDS of dollars on Kickstarters so obviously saying "no one is going to pay 25 bux a month for one" is a silly statement. Maybe it wouldn't be a big market. Maybe it would. Obviously it would be more than "no one".
No, DUMMIES drop that kind of money on a HOPE and a PRAYER, THATS why these guys do what they do. They get the money UP FRONT. If ANY of these kickstarter asked for money AFTER they were released they wouldnt make a penny.
Thing is IF a company was going to make a 25 dollar a month game they would have to start now (which would obviously be a huge gamble and fly in the face of the trend, but it would take 5-7 years to make enough content to make a game release with enough to justify that price tag. Which by when would be obsolete because who knows what new engine will be coming out that will make whatever they start now pale in comparison. another reason why MMOs are passe now, they take too long to develop and by the time they release the awesome new shiny stuff they showed when theyannounced is old and dated comapred to the new stuff being made.
Still waiting. Does ANYONE have an example of something they bought in a cash shop that made a boring game fun?
I've never spent a penny in a cash shop and (hopefully) never will - I think its terrible business model and supporting businesses that use it is the same thing as supporting bad games.
However, I'll give you some examples I've heard from friends (mostly swtor):
Inventory Unlocks - by unlocking full inventory, they had to make less trips to vendors and could spend more time doing the fun bits
Toolbar Unlocks - Again, this allowed players to fully leverage their characters potential, increasing their power and thus increasing their fun (because winning is fun).
Content Unlocks - guess this is self-explanatory....
Cosmetics (clothes, mounts etc) - I had a lot of friends that took a lot of pleasure creating a bespoke look for their toons and in many cases, they could only achieve their goals by spending money
Stat Unlocks - LotRO introduced a minor P2W item (stat scrolls) that, once you had them all, have you +50 to every stat (at a time when you capped at 500). Whilst they could be obtained in game, they were extremely rare. The extra stats meant extra power which meant higher success rate which is more fun.
Class Unlocks - In Lotro, you either needed to buy the MoM xpac or purchase the class unlock. The two classes (runekeeper and warden) are fun and play very differently to the other classes.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
Still waiting. Does ANYONE have an example of something they bought in a cash shop that made a boring game fun?
I've never spent a penny in a cash shop and (hopefully) never will - I think its terrible business model and supporting businesses that use it is the same thing as supporting bad games.
However, I'll give you some examples I've heard from friends (mostly swtor):
Inventory Unlocks - by unlocking full inventory, they had to make less trips to vendors and could spend more time doing the fun bits
Toolbar Unlocks - Again, this allowed players to fully leverage their characters potential, increasing their power and thus increasing their fun (because winning is fun).
Content Unlocks - guess this is self-explanatory....
Cosmetics (clothes, mounts etc) - I had a lot of friends that took a lot of pleasure creating a bespoke look for their toons and in many cases, they could only achieve their goals by spending money
Stat Unlocks - LotRO introduced a minor P2W item (stat scrolls) that, once you had them all, have you +50 to every stat (at a time when you capped at 500). Whilst they could be obtained in game, they were extremely rare. The extra stats meant extra power which meant higher success rate which is more fun.
Class Unlocks - In Lotro, you either needed to buy the MoM xpac or purchase the class unlock. The two classes (runekeeper and warden) are fun and play very differently to the other classes.
You did a nice job with this but I've found it generally pointless to debate with someone who is being intentionally obtuse.
No matter how many examples you provide, the reply will likely be "is that all you got?"
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Still waiting. Does ANYONE have an example of something they bought in a cash shop that made a boring game fun?
I've never spent a penny in a cash shop and (hopefully) never will - I think its terrible business model and supporting businesses that use it is the same thing as supporting bad games.
However, I'll give you some examples I've heard from friends (mostly swtor):
Inventory Unlocks - by unlocking full inventory, they had to make less trips to vendors and could spend more time doing the fun bits
Toolbar Unlocks - Again, this allowed players to fully leverage their characters potential, increasing their power and thus increasing their fun (because winning is fun).
Content Unlocks - guess this is self-explanatory....
Cosmetics (clothes, mounts etc) - I had a lot of friends that took a lot of pleasure creating a bespoke look for their toons and in many cases, they could only achieve their goals by spending money
Stat Unlocks - LotRO introduced a minor P2W item (stat scrolls) that, once you had them all, have you +50 to every stat (at a time when you capped at 500). Whilst they could be obtained in game, they were extremely rare. The extra stats meant extra power which meant higher success rate which is more fun.
Class Unlocks - In Lotro, you either needed to buy the MoM xpac or purchase the class unlock. The two classes (runekeeper and warden) are fun and play very differently to the other classes.
Everything you mentioned in swtor can be acquired by subscribing.
Question regarding the scrolls in LOTRO at what point in today's LOTRO is there not a high success rate? Trust me you don't have a higher successes rate because of a scroll or two lol.
Would gladly pay it for an old school style game (a'la EQ , DAOC , so on). I bought reasonably heavy into Camelot Unchained because I want true server communities and sub based with no cash shop.
If they would use a small portion to simply pay live GM's to do nothing , nothing , but watch chat , and on the spot perma ban anyone who spams repeatedly , starts making racist and violent threats , etc. On the spot perma bans for gold selling also etc.
I don't mean joking or saying something you don't like , but truly spamming , making obvious attempts to get around chat filters and say disgusting things etc.
It's a reason I avoid any F2P games because making a throwaway account is too easy to do repeatedly. If you had to have a CC and sub and it was even higher I'd like it even more , especially if extra sub money when to paid GM's to actually enforce rules , instantly , and on the spot.
Really dumb idea. MMO's with a monthly fee of 25 dollars a month would never fly. This post was just click bait. The OP should just give his money to SC.
Still waiting. Does ANYONE have an example of something they bought in a cash shop that made a boring game fun?
I've never spent a penny in a cash shop and (hopefully) never will - I think its terrible business model and supporting businesses that use it is the same thing as supporting bad games.
However, I'll give you some examples I've heard from friends (mostly swtor):
Inventory Unlocks - by unlocking full inventory, they had to make less trips to vendors and could spend more time doing the fun bits
Toolbar Unlocks - Again, this allowed players to fully leverage their characters potential, increasing their power and thus increasing their fun (because winning is fun).
Content Unlocks - guess this is self-explanatory....
Cosmetics (clothes, mounts etc) - I had a lot of friends that took a lot of pleasure creating a bespoke look for their toons and in many cases, they could only achieve their goals by spending money
Stat Unlocks - LotRO introduced a minor P2W item (stat scrolls) that, once you had them all, have you +50 to every stat (at a time when you capped at 500). Whilst they could be obtained in game, they were extremely rare. The extra stats meant extra power which meant higher success rate which is more fun.
Class Unlocks - In Lotro, you either needed to buy the MoM xpac or purchase the class unlock. The two classes (runekeeper and warden) are fun and play very differently to the other classes.
You did a nice job with this but I've found it generally pointless to debate with someone who is being intentionally obtuse.
No matter how many examples you provide, the reply will likely be "is that all you got?"
Well, I think the point @khanstruct was trying to make is that cash shops don't affect the "core" game and so shouldn't affect a person's enjoyment, and that if the core game is boring then buying the junk sold in cash shops wont change anything.
I agree, from my point of view, but I know a lot of casual gamers from previous MMOs who'd disagree. For my casual gamer friends, they generally couldn't give a damn about underlying mechanics or anything like that. They wanna play through content and simply enjoy being in a virtual world (with the games I played, it was mostly they played due to the IP) and there are plenty of cash shop items that increased their personal sense of fun.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
Still waiting. Does ANYONE have an example of something they bought in a cash shop that made a boring game fun?
I've never spent a penny in a cash shop and (hopefully) never will - I think its terrible business model and supporting businesses that use it is the same thing as supporting bad games.
However, I'll give you some examples I've heard from friends (mostly swtor):
Inventory Unlocks - by unlocking full inventory, they had to make less trips to vendors and could spend more time doing the fun bits
Toolbar Unlocks - Again, this allowed players to fully leverage their characters potential, increasing their power and thus increasing their fun (because winning is fun).
Content Unlocks - guess this is self-explanatory....
Cosmetics (clothes, mounts etc) - I had a lot of friends that took a lot of pleasure creating a bespoke look for their toons and in many cases, they could only achieve their goals by spending money
Stat Unlocks - LotRO introduced a minor P2W item (stat scrolls) that, once you had them all, have you +50 to every stat (at a time when you capped at 500). Whilst they could be obtained in game, they were extremely rare. The extra stats meant extra power which meant higher success rate which is more fun.
Class Unlocks - In Lotro, you either needed to buy the MoM xpac or purchase the class unlock. The two classes (runekeeper and warden) are fun and play very differently to the other classes.
Everything you mentioned in swtor can be acquired by subscribing.
Question regarding the scrolls in LOTRO at what point in today's LOTRO is there not a high success rate? Trust me you don't have a higher successes rate because of a scroll or two lol.
The question was name some things in a cash shop that made a boring game fun.
I named some.
Doesn't matter if you can get everything by subscribing (even though you can't with a lot of the swtor cash shop), I answered the question as it was stated.
As to LotRO, I quit around the time that Tower of Orthanc came out so couldn't say what difference stat scrolls make these days. However, when they were first released, I think the hardcap on stats was 600, so +50 across the board was a big difference. Sure, the game was more based on skill than stats, but it still made a difference. That extra 500hp, for example, was often the difference between life and death. As a min-maxer, I certainly got enjoyment out of perfecting my build with stat scrolls in addition to gear (though, I got mine using monthly subscriber bonus).
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
I've never spent a penny in a cash shop and (hopefully) never will - I think its terrible business model and supporting businesses that use it is the same thing as supporting bad games.
However, I'll give you some examples I've heard from friends (mostly swtor):
Inventory Unlocks - by unlocking full inventory, they had to make less trips to vendors and could spend more time doing the fun bits
Toolbar Unlocks - Again, this allowed players to fully leverage their characters potential, increasing their power and thus increasing their fun (because winning is fun).
Content Unlocks - guess this is self-explanatory....
Cosmetics (clothes, mounts etc) - I had a lot of friends that took a lot of pleasure creating a bespoke look for their toons and in many cases, they could only achieve their goals by spending money
Stat Unlocks - LotRO introduced a minor P2W item (stat scrolls) that, once you had them all, have you +50 to every stat (at a time when you capped at 500). Whilst they could be obtained in game, they were extremely rare. The extra stats meant extra power which meant higher success rate which is more fun.
Class Unlocks - In Lotro, you either needed to buy the MoM xpac or purchase the class unlock. The two classes (runekeeper and warden) are fun and play very differently to the other classes.
You did a nice job with this but I've found it generally pointless to debate with someone who is being intentionally obtuse.
No matter how many examples you provide, the reply will likely be "is that all you got?"
How am I being "intentionally obtuse"? I specifically said "in my experience" I have never found cash shop items to make a boring game fun, then asked for specific examples others might have had.
I can't speak to LotR, as I haven't played it. And yeah, people could argue some of these specifics (toolbars and inventory, etc.)
But, as others have also pointed out, these are all things you get if you pay the monthly "premium" for a game. So that really doesn't argue against cash shops, if you have the option of paying the almighty monthly sub for the same stuff.
So I suppose a better question would be, "how would you like the developers to be paid?" People complain about ads. People complain about cash shops (even cosmetic ones). Apparently an optional "premium" or sub doesn't appease you. So what then? How should they be paid?
Still waiting. Does ANYONE have an example of something they bought in a cash shop that made a boring game fun?
I've never spent a penny in a cash shop and (hopefully) never will - I think its terrible business model and supporting businesses that use it is the same thing as supporting bad games.
However, I'll give you some examples I've heard from friends (mostly swtor):
Inventory Unlocks - by unlocking full inventory, they had to make less trips to vendors and could spend more time doing the fun bits
Toolbar Unlocks - Again, this allowed players to fully leverage their characters potential, increasing their power and thus increasing their fun (because winning is fun).
Content Unlocks - guess this is self-explanatory....
Cosmetics (clothes, mounts etc) - I had a lot of friends that took a lot of pleasure creating a bespoke look for their toons and in many cases, they could only achieve their goals by spending money
Stat Unlocks - LotRO introduced a minor P2W item (stat scrolls) that, once you had them all, have you +50 to every stat (at a time when you capped at 500). Whilst they could be obtained in game, they were extremely rare. The extra stats meant extra power which meant higher success rate which is more fun.
Class Unlocks - In Lotro, you either needed to buy the MoM xpac or purchase the class unlock. The two classes (runekeeper and warden) are fun and play very differently to the other classes.
Everything you mentioned in swtor can be acquired by subscribing.
Question regarding the scrolls in LOTRO at what point in today's LOTRO is there not a high success rate? Trust me you don't have a higher successes rate because of a scroll or two lol.
The question was name some things in a cash shop that made a boring game fun.
I named some.
Doesn't matter if you can get everything by subscribing (even though you can't with a lot of the swtor cash shop), I answered the question as it was stated.
As to LotRO, I quit around the time that Tower of Orthanc came out so couldn't say what difference stat scrolls make these days. However, when they were first released, I think the hardcap on stats was 600, so +50 across the board was a big difference. Sure, the game was more based on skill than stats, but it still made a difference. That extra 500hp, for example, was often the difference between life and death. As a min-maxer, I certainly got enjoyment out of perfecting my build with stat scrolls in addition to gear (though, I got mine using monthly subscriber bonus).
Actually yes almost everything in the swtor shop can be purchased from the GTN. And the things you mentioned are all unlocked by subribing. So your best bet would be to sub if those things make the game fun.
As for lotro even back in Orthanc unless you were running end game raids (yep they had those back then) nothing was hard.
That is another thing all these f2p haters always forget or purposely don't mention that mmos that have sub options always give subs shop currency rewards/month. So as a subscriber you don't ever have to spend a dime especially in swtor case as credits are easy to come by and you can purchase almost everything off the GTN and you get 600 cc (with security key) a month.
I've never spent a penny in a cash shop and (hopefully) never will - I think its terrible business model and supporting businesses that use it is the same thing as supporting bad games.
However, I'll give you some examples I've heard from friends (mostly swtor):
Inventory Unlocks - by unlocking full inventory, they had to make less trips to vendors and could spend more time doing the fun bits
Toolbar Unlocks - Again, this allowed players to fully leverage their characters potential, increasing their power and thus increasing their fun (because winning is fun).
Content Unlocks - guess this is self-explanatory....
Cosmetics (clothes, mounts etc) - I had a lot of friends that took a lot of pleasure creating a bespoke look for their toons and in many cases, they could only achieve their goals by spending money
Stat Unlocks - LotRO introduced a minor P2W item (stat scrolls) that, once you had them all, have you +50 to every stat (at a time when you capped at 500). Whilst they could be obtained in game, they were extremely rare. The extra stats meant extra power which meant higher success rate which is more fun.
Class Unlocks - In Lotro, you either needed to buy the MoM xpac or purchase the class unlock. The two classes (runekeeper and warden) are fun and play very differently to the other classes.
You did a nice job with this but I've found it generally pointless to debate with someone who is being intentionally obtuse.
No matter how many examples you provide, the reply will likely be "is that all you got?"
How am I being "intentionally obtuse"? I specifically said "in my experience" I have never found cash shop items to make a boring game fun, then asked for specific examples others might have had.
I can't speak to LotR, as I haven't played it. And yeah, people could argue some of these specifics (toolbars and inventory, etc.)
But, as others have also pointed out, these are all things you get if you pay the monthly "premium" for a game. So that really doesn't argue against cash shops, if you have the option of paying the almighty monthly sub for the same stuff.
So I suppose a better question would be, "how would you like the developers to be paid?" People complain about ads. People complain about cash shops (even cosmetic ones). Apparently an optional "premium" or sub doesn't appease you. So what then? How should they be paid?
Most of the games you are referencing were designed around a sub only model, and later converted to f2p with a (not really) optional sub.
I've yet to see a title designed from the ground up around a cash shop with optional sub be worthy of playing. The cash shop just permeates the design.
As for cash shops not making a game more fun, dont you think being able to buy all the best looking gear in a cash shop probably increases enjoyment, therefore the fun?
How about being able to buy items in a cash shop that let you upgrade your gear so high (if you spend enough) you can destroy a host of "regular" players?
I played one title like this (Runes of Magic) and there was a mage who claimed to have spent over $8K in the cash shop and he appeared to be having great fun one shotting fellow level 60s not so similarly geared.
A more modern example, you definitely could increase your crafting and farming fun by purchasing cash shop items such as labor points potions and thunderstruck tree boxes. (btw, patron status only partially mitigates the labor point issue, especially if you play alot and spend most of your time crafting.)
There are examples all around, heck EVE's designed to strongly encourage people to not only pay a sub, but keep subbing even if not playing. You can definitely increase you fun by subbing to more than one account.
Maybe it all comes down to your preferences on how you get fleece..I meant serviced.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wow is the only company able to create enough value for $15 a month and you want to go to $25? You have way too much faith in the genre right now. 90% of these new MMO's aren't even playable for free.
It's like giving more money to the Detroit school system and expecting anything different. Do you really trust game devs (in general) to deliver more if you throw more money at them???
Yes. It is the MBAs I don't trust. Too bad they usually run the place.
Cool! Too bad you don't trust me. So when do I get to start running the place?
I've got my bachelor of applied technology so you can trust me more. Although mine is in biotechnology so instead of taking your money I will just fuck with every living cell in your body :awesome:
As bad as the MMO genre is right now no one is goign to pay 25 bux a months for one. Simply because it couldnt be THAT much better than wha there already is, or...nothing.
Huh? People drop THOUSANDS of dollars on Kickstarters so obviously saying "no one is going to pay 25 bux a month for one" is a silly statement. Maybe it wouldn't be a big market. Maybe it would. Obviously it would be more than "no one".
No, DUMMIES drop that kind of money on a HOPE and a PRAYER, THATS why these guys do what they do. They get the money UP FRONT. If ANY of these kickstarter asked for money AFTER they were released they wouldnt make a penny.
Thing is IF a company was going to make a 25 dollar a month game they would have to start now (which would obviously be a huge gamble and fly in the face of the trend, but it would take 5-7 years to make enough content to make a game release with enough to justify that price tag. Which by when would be obsolete because who knows what new engine will be coming out that will make whatever they start now pale in comparison. another reason why MMOs are passe now, they take too long to develop and by the time they release the awesome new shiny stuff they showed when theyannounced is old and dated comapred to the new stuff being made.
Why do you assume it has to be static content?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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He's thinking of a $25 sub because in his head it's a viable option. He thinks the design will be such that everyone will love it and want to play. He assumes the combat, classes, PvP, PvE, Crafting, XP, and all the other elements that go into that game will work great because of the extra money players will be playing. So in his head it's all magically worked out to be perfect not only for him but millions of other players. The current trend of gaming development says if it could work somebody would have done it by now.
Like saying what if someone build the perfect game would you be willing to pay more for it, when players can't agree on what the most perfect game would be for a $25 sub. If the OP would start detailing the game he's thinking of there would be lots of agreements and probably even more disagreements about his details and thoughts on what constitutes a game that's worth paying such a sub for.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Man I wish I lived in your bubble, end of story huh, nothing else to it. Unfortunately my understanding of economics and system design don't allow me to see things in such a simplistic manor.
You believe all is well and good in the world of cash shops and MMO game play design because the gamer can decide how much he spends. As if that's the goal of playing computer games now.
" Wow, I heard people can even play games completely for free now !! Isn't that the coolest !! "
Unbelievable.
Funny how the best designed F2P games allow you to actually play them for free if you choose so. Just because there are exceptions out there doesn't mean the model is bad, it means others are insanely greedy (and often fail).
I'd be interested to know what those "best" F2P games are, none are coming to mind right off hand.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
One fact remains, I'm sure most of us value our lives and time enough to be gladly paying $249-299 a year for a product that we will be spending most of our free time on and that product will receive more success (may not in the short) in the long run...after word of mouth will spread and friends of friends will continue to give positive feedback on it as it grows into something better as time goes by. This also was the case with EVE and WOW in their first years. I have yet to hear any product with a cash shop that gives items that interfere with its end game design as a growing, and expanding product in the long run.
Reality is....there are plenty of F2P "games" out there that are all about repetition, endless PvP for some website ranks, and then you have plenty of P2W or P2 advance progression MMO's that focus so much on their cash shop that can't even deliver that mediocre quality they are required.
Monthly sub allows players to be also in full control of voting with their wallets by how pleased they are with the current performance of that product. They can directly see what they are getting for what they are spending and in the same time the developer spends 0 time on cash shops, while also most players have more goals to do in that game, because they don't skip them through the cash shop.
World of Warcraft is best and most recent example how even the most loyal fan base will flee your theme park designed product without new rides being brought on time combined with other bad decisions.
One fact remains, I'm sure most of us value our lives and time enough to be gladly paying $249-299 a year for a product that we will be spending most of our free time on and that product will receive more success (may not in the short) in the long run...after word of mouth will spread and friends of friends will continue to give positive feedback on it as it grows into something better as time goes by. This also was the case with EVE and WOW in their first years. I have yet to hear any product with a cash shop that gives items that interfere with its end game design as a growing, and expanding product in the long run.
Reality is....there are plenty of F2P "games" out there that are all about repetition, endless PvP for some website ranks, and then you have plenty of P2W or P2 advance progression MMO's that focus so much on their cash shop that can't even deliver that mediocre quality they are required.
Monthly sub allows players to be also in full control of voting with their wallets by how pleased they are with the current performance of that product. They can directly see what they are getting for what they are spending and in the same time the developer spends 0 time on cash shops, while also most players have more goals to do in that game, because they don't skip them through the cash shop.
World of Warcraft is best and most recent example how even the most loyal fan base will flee your theme park designed product without new rides being brought on time combined with other bad decisions.
You start by saying fact...yet not a single fact in this entire post.
You don't have facts you have opinions...
The genre has passed you buy now that is a fact. See how that works?
How am I being "intentionally obtuse"? I specifically said "in my experience" I have never found cash shop items to make a boring game fun, then asked for specific examples others might have had.
I can't speak to LotR, as I haven't played it. And yeah, people could argue some of these specifics (toolbars and inventory, etc.)
But, as others have also pointed out, these are all things you get if you pay the monthly "premium" for a game. So that really doesn't argue against cash shops, if you have the option of paying the almighty monthly sub for the same stuff.
So I suppose a better question would be, "how would you like the developers to be paid?" People complain about ads. People complain about cash shops (even cosmetic ones). Apparently an optional "premium" or sub doesn't appease you. So what then? How should they be paid?
How about a forced sub, with maybe some modifications to make it fairer for everyone?
Except this has also been proven to not work. People won't pay a "forced" monthly sub. That's why P2P games have all gone F2P.
How is a straight sub game not fair to everyone? And what modifications are you suggesting?
@Tasslehoff35, if you actually could read what I wrote, you would see that my fact relates on the sentence that "most of us would gladly pay good price for something we see ourselves spend most of our time in our lives" and if you are not in the most category...then you have a lot of gaming to do before you see what you are getting vs what you could be getting.
The genre has not passed me by because I've been part of it and adapted to it. I'll be always a gamer and no one will take that away from me. If they don't/need my money then good for all of these producers that failed to take a cent from me in the last 6-7 years....from what they choose to invest in.
THE FACT IS I came as the WINNER I always am because my wallet is fatter than ever while also being more happy for not spending in these P2W cash shops than actually spending and these producers would be out of jobs today (in this sector at least) or delivering something with far superior quality if most has same spending principles as I.
I did my part and I'm proud of my decisions and the genre has not passed me, it simply has not did it job well, which is to present me with a product I would be inclined to open my wallet for...after all, all these cash shops clearly show CASH is something they are very interesting in. Sadly, rather than with actual quality product, they prey on different type of audience, one that's more inclined to spend on whatever its presented to them. I too was this audience in my early childhood years and I was ripped hard, spending more than anyone else...
My veteran experience how has its merits and rewards.
The game must be truly free and cost nothing Im a cheapoman and love it. Look at all those free games I can never ever accomplish everything in them anyway I don't understand how you can only play a month and complete everything don't you do nothing else than gaming??
I did not state nor imply all is well and good. Nor did Iimply anything about the goal of playing games. The fact remains that in a free to play game you choose how much you spend. Whether it is nothing or $2000.
Post edited by VengeSunsoar on
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
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Thing is IF a company was going to make a 25 dollar a month game they would have to start now (which would obviously be a huge gamble and fly in the face of the trend, but it would take 5-7 years to make enough content to make a game release with enough to justify that price tag. Which by when would be obsolete because who knows what new engine will be coming out that will make whatever they start now pale in comparison. another reason why MMOs are passe now, they take too long to develop and by the time they release the awesome new shiny stuff they showed when theyannounced is old and dated comapred to the new stuff being made.
However, I'll give you some examples I've heard from friends (mostly swtor):
No matter how many examples you provide, the reply will likely be "is that all you got?"
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Question regarding the scrolls in LOTRO at what point in today's LOTRO is there not a high success rate? Trust me you don't have a higher successes rate because of a scroll or two lol.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
If they would use a small portion to simply pay live GM's to do nothing , nothing , but watch chat , and on the spot perma ban anyone who spams repeatedly , starts making racist and violent threats , etc. On the spot perma bans for gold selling also etc.
I don't mean joking or saying something you don't like , but truly spamming , making obvious attempts to get around chat filters and say disgusting things etc.
It's a reason I avoid any F2P games because making a throwaway account is too easy to do repeatedly. If you had to have a CC and sub and it was even higher I'd like it even more , especially if extra sub money when to paid GM's to actually enforce rules , instantly , and on the spot.
I agree, from my point of view, but I know a lot of casual gamers from previous MMOs who'd disagree. For my casual gamer friends, they generally couldn't give a damn about underlying mechanics or anything like that. They wanna play through content and simply enjoy being in a virtual world (with the games I played, it was mostly they played due to the IP) and there are plenty of cash shop items that increased their personal sense of fun.
The question was name some things in a cash shop that made a boring game fun.
I named some.
Doesn't matter if you can get everything by subscribing (even though you can't with a lot of the swtor cash shop), I answered the question as it was stated.
As to LotRO, I quit around the time that Tower of Orthanc came out so couldn't say what difference stat scrolls make these days. However, when they were first released, I think the hardcap on stats was 600, so +50 across the board was a big difference. Sure, the game was more based on skill than stats, but it still made a difference. That extra 500hp, for example, was often the difference between life and death. As a min-maxer, I certainly got enjoyment out of perfecting my build with stat scrolls in addition to gear (though, I got mine using monthly subscriber bonus).
I can't speak to LotR, as I haven't played it. And yeah, people could argue some of these specifics (toolbars and inventory, etc.)
But, as others have also pointed out, these are all things you get if you pay the monthly "premium" for a game. So that really doesn't argue against cash shops, if you have the option of paying the almighty monthly sub for the same stuff.
So I suppose a better question would be, "how would you like the developers to be paid?" People complain about ads. People complain about cash shops (even cosmetic ones). Apparently an optional "premium" or sub doesn't appease you. So what then? How should they be paid?
As for lotro even back in Orthanc unless you were running end game raids (yep they had those back then) nothing was hard.
That is another thing all these f2p haters always forget or purposely don't mention that mmos that have sub options always give subs shop currency rewards/month. So as a subscriber you don't ever have to spend a dime especially in swtor case as credits are easy to come by and you can purchase almost everything off the GTN and you get 600 cc (with security key) a month.
I've yet to see a title designed from the ground up around a cash shop with optional sub be worthy of playing. The cash shop just permeates the design.
As for cash shops not making a game more fun, dont you think being able to buy all the best looking gear in a cash shop probably increases enjoyment, therefore the fun?
How about being able to buy items in a cash shop that let you upgrade your gear so high (if you spend enough) you can destroy a host of "regular" players?
I played one title like this (Runes of Magic) and there was a mage who claimed to have spent over $8K in the cash shop and he appeared to be having great fun one shotting fellow level 60s not so similarly geared.
A more modern example, you definitely could increase your crafting and farming fun by purchasing cash shop items such as labor points potions and thunderstruck tree boxes. (btw, patron status only partially mitigates the labor point issue, especially if you play alot and spend most of your time crafting.)
There are examples all around, heck EVE's designed to strongly encourage people to not only pay a sub, but keep subbing even if not playing. You can definitely increase you fun by subbing to more than one account.
Maybe it all comes down to your preferences on how you get fleece..I meant serviced.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I've got my bachelor of applied technology so you can trust me more. Although mine is in biotechnology so instead of taking your money I will just fuck with every living cell in your body :awesome:
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Like saying what if someone build the perfect game would you be willing to pay more for it, when players can't agree on what the most perfect game would be for a $25 sub. If the OP would start detailing the game he's thinking of there would be lots of agreements and probably even more disagreements about his details and thoughts on what constitutes a game that's worth paying such a sub for.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Reality is....there are plenty of F2P "games" out there that are all about repetition, endless PvP for some website ranks, and then you have plenty of P2W or P2 advance progression MMO's that focus so much on their cash shop that can't even deliver that mediocre quality they are required.
Monthly sub allows players to be also in full control of voting with their wallets by how pleased they are with the current performance of that product. They can directly see what they are getting for what they are spending and in the same time the developer spends 0 time on cash shops, while also most players have more goals to do in that game, because they don't skip them through the cash shop.
World of Warcraft is best and most recent example how even the most loyal fan base will flee your theme park designed product without new rides being brought on time combined with other bad decisions.
You don't have facts you have opinions...
The genre has passed you buy now that is a fact. See how that works?
How is a straight sub game not fair to everyone? And what modifications are you suggesting?
The genre has not passed me by because I've been part of it and adapted to it. I'll be always a gamer and no one will take that away from me. If they don't/need my money then good for all of these producers that failed to take a cent from me in the last 6-7 years....from what they choose to invest in.
THE FACT IS I came as the WINNER I always am because my wallet is fatter than ever while also being more happy for not spending in these P2W cash shops than actually spending and these producers would be out of jobs today (in this sector at least) or delivering something with far superior quality if most has same spending principles as I.
I did my part and I'm proud of my decisions and the genre has not passed me, it simply has not did it job well, which is to present me with a product I would be inclined to open my wallet for...after all, all these cash shops clearly show CASH is something they are very interesting in. Sadly, rather than with actual quality product, they prey on different type of audience, one that's more inclined to spend on whatever its presented to them. I too was this audience in my early childhood years and I was ripped hard, spending more than anyone else...
My veteran experience how has its merits and rewards.