This game can fail in the same way all of the flashy Asian grinders that came before it.
Fundamentally, there is nothing new with this game.
You know, I'm getting to the point that I am seriously hoping that every single MMO that is ever released from now until forever will only be an "Asian" MMO so that these types of players will just give up and go away and we can finally stop reading all of these bigotted comments by "Asian" MMO haters.
There are many "Asian" MMO's that have no similarities. Many of them come out that have very little, if anything, in common with one another. They are MMOs, period.
This game can fail in the same way all of the flashy Asian grinders that came before it.
Fundamentally, there is nothing new with this game.
You know, I'm getting to the point that I am seriously hoping that every single MMO that is ever released from now until forever will only be an "Asian" MMO so that these types of players will just give up and go away and we can finally stop reading all of these bigotted comments by "Asian" MMO haters.
There are many "Asian" MMO's that have no similarities. Many of them come out that have very little, if anything, in common with one another. They are MMOs, period.
So then, AA, AoW, BDO and even Rift don't have similar game mechanics, cash shops, RNG crafting with cash shop components, visual style, and insane GRIND? (They do.)
Funny... WoW, ESO, SWG (emu), UO and other games, don't/didn't.
This game can fail in the same way all of the flashy Asian grinders that came before it.
Fundamentally, there is nothing new with this game.
You know, I'm getting to the point that I am seriously hoping that every single MMO that is ever released from now until forever will only be an "Asian" MMO so that these types of players will just give up and go away and we can finally stop reading all of these bigotted comments by "Asian" MMO haters.
There are many "Asian" MMO's that have no similarities. Many of them come out that have very little, if anything, in common with one another. They are MMOs, period.
So then, AA, AoW, BDO and even Rift don't have similar game mechanics, cash shops, RNG crafting with cash shop components, visual style, and insane GRIND? (They do.)
Funny... WoW, ESO, SWG (emu), UO and other games, don't/didn't.
How's that for similarities?
You do know that Rift is a western game... not "Asian". WoW & ESO both have Cash Shops & Grind. In fact IMHO WOW has some terrible grind (rep grinding *shivers*).
Some highlights in this thread - the guy saying all cars drive the same and listing expensive cars he's driven is huge liar. I drive an eclipse (see I don't lie) and my fiance drives a kia.... her car handles like it should have the mario cart theme playing. My car takes tight turns poorly, but handles well other than that. BUT HEY ALL CARS DRIVE THE SAME ... yeah if anyone believes you... wow.
Next up -
This game sucks because of gender locked ages and sexes. That is completely lame. I'm amazed that this group of people on mmorpg.com has anyone defending this POS.
It's trash.
Just stop.
I know we're all hungry for a great new mmo, but all you guys do when you get eboners over a new steaming pile of crap is become even more bitter.
PS- it's not about it being an asian MMO stop being racist jag offs... it's just a terrible game just from a feature standpoint.
Black Desert will float in river of mediocrity with other titles like Arch Age. it will have its core base of player but it won't be a smash hit or anything. In few months it will be a no news. And you will only be reminded of its existence with new patch updates.
I noticed many people use the word "sandbox" to justify a game that lacks enough PVE content. Black Desert is one of them.
BDO has tons of PvE content. what BDO doesn't have it what you've predetermined appropriate PvE content to be.
Pretty much this. PvP tends to have differing areas/regions of the world and preferences when it occurs. Likewise PvP/vE are never something that can be ever implemented with everyone being happy. Then add the lovely abstract that even in any game there are individuals that will do whatever they can, illicit or not, to gain that advantage even if its marginal. FPS games always encounter this and even something as basic as lag~switching cannot be dealt with appropriately with universal agreement let alone its an issue that recieves implicit and fundamental support from everyone! The complex the issue the stratified support is.
Even with sufficiently high PvE traits in a game then it becomes a case of lack or lore, lack of endgame, endgame is a grind, the game is too much of a grind, content is too hard, content is too easy, content is too complicated, too difficult to find a party, too easy to find a bad party, lack of solo play support, lack of casual support, too time-intensive, too little value crafting, not enough crafting materials, horrible player auction and market, cash shop options, too much of a P2W.
So basically Waterlily for any game that comes out as an MMO one of the above complaints will exist NO MATTER WHAT! No one is ever happy with games, everyone likes to gripe and complain without offering actual discussion on game mechanics that can support it game play. That's the most asinine thing about the player base in general: too much unhappiness and not enough of a "hey devs we believe this input may help" and too much of a "omgz your game sux I'mma call my card company and demand a chargeback because your content SUCKS!". It's also the latter statement we're seeing so frequently in the forums these days.
I'm not accusing of you either and per se of this but rather our expectations need to be grounded based on the design the developers had hoped for primarily and, secondly, whether there is a platform and medium for quality dialogue and conversations on how to improve a game and its mechanics. I'm an old-school realist who accepts game limits and fosters my expectations on those limits.
Personally I am happy that games like Black Desert Online are out, I tried it and I accept it is not for me and I won't white-knight it. However the important of BDO is to help promote new content and new variations of mmo's so that companies are less frightened of the risks of implementing new content that's unfamiliar or has no prior background to compare to. That's the beauty of really indie games and smaller dev studios: the chance to go outside of the triple-A format and really break the mold and help introduce new elements into the mmo genre that, whether they succeed or fail, may help to promote future mmo's in quality content and design. Had Ultima and EQ never taken their own risks WoW would never have either been developed or achieved the success it did and while I don't like WoW, I can appreciate it's promoting of MMO's to the general audience that it's predecessors were never quite able to do to the level that WoW did.
I noticed many people use the word "sandbox" to justify a game that lacks enough PVE content. Black Desert is one of them.
BDO has tons of PvE content. what BDO doesn't have it what you've predetermined appropriate PvE content to be.
If by predetermined you mean, PVE that doesn't involve engaging in PVP, then, your absolutely correct. BDO is a themepark with endgame PVP, what little PVE there is, is very susceptible to being engaged in forced PVP. And for those determined to try and label BDO as a sandbox game, forget it, OW FFA PVP does not make a game a sandbox game, for sandbox games, pvp is not even a requirement. To me, it just looks like a game where they ran out of cash in development, and instead of creating some end game PVE content, they just hashed together a PVP game. Worse part of it is, is that if a PVE orientated player even attempts to stick with the game, they will be engaging in PVP whether they want to or not, as forced PVP is pretty much encouraged in this game. The games developers are going to learn a hard lesson if they think that kind of thing is acceptable. This is among the reasons why Asian developers struggle to break into the western market, despite so many previous failures, lessons don't seem to be getting learned.
I noticed many people use the word "sandbox" to justify a game that lacks enough PVE content. Black Desert is one of them.
BDO has tons of PvE content. what BDO doesn't have it what you've predetermined appropriate PvE content to be.
If by predetermined you mean, PVE that doesn't involve engaging in PVP, then, your absolutely correct. BDO is a themepark with endgame PVP, what little PVE there is, is very susceptible to being engaged in forced PVP. And for those determined to try and label BDO as a sandbox game, forget it, OW FFA PVP does not make a game a sandbox game, for sandbox games, pvp is not even a requirement. To me, it just looks like a game where they ran out of cash in development, and instead of creating some end game PVE content, they just hashed together a PVP game. Worse part of it is, is that if a PVE orientated player even attempts to stick with the game, they will be engaging in PVP whether they want to or not, as forced PVP is pretty much encouraged in this game. The games developers are going to learn a hard lesson if they think that kind of thing is acceptable. This is among the reasons why Asian developers struggle to break into the western market, despite so many previous failures, lessons don't seem to be getting learned.
Funny how the description you make of it could easily apply to EVE.
I noticed many people use the word "sandbox" to justify a game that lacks enough PVE content. Black Desert is one of them.
BDO has tons of PvE content. what BDO doesn't have it what you've predetermined appropriate PvE content to be.
If by predetermined you mean, PVE that doesn't involve engaging in PVP, then, your absolutely correct. BDO is a themepark with endgame PVP, what little PVE there is, is very susceptible to being engaged in forced PVP. And for those determined to try and label BDO as a sandbox game, forget it, OW FFA PVP does not make a game a sandbox game, for sandbox games, pvp is not even a requirement. To me, it just looks like a game where they ran out of cash in development, and instead of creating some end game PVE content, they just hashed together a PVP game. Worse part of it is, is that if a PVE orientated player even attempts to stick with the game, they will be engaging in PVP whether they want to or not, as forced PVP is pretty much encouraged in this game. The games developers are going to learn a hard lesson if they think that kind of thing is acceptable. This is among the reasons why Asian developers struggle to break into the western market, despite so many previous failures, lessons don't seem to be getting learned.
Funny how the description you make of it could easily apply to EVE.
Eve Online is a PVP game, however, there is a consequence to ganking in high sec, its called Concorde, not only that but if you engage in it too often, then your security status increasingly restricts you from entering the higher sec systems, which is where the main trade hubs are, working off that negative sec rating is a tedious proposition, but if you don't then high sec is a very dangerous place to be, as Concorde etc. will attack you on sight, as will Station and Gate sentry guns. Wardec's are a way around this, and a fair number of alliances/corps engage in high sec wardec's but to avoid a wardec, all a player has to do is drop out of the corp they are in, into a newbie corp for a week, and carry on as normal. Unless BDO has PVP mechanics on that level, which it doesn't, then its hard to see how that applies, because at no time does BDO give you the choice, which is something that Eve Online does.
I see the current system as a big issue and if they don't change it the game will go down so fast it will make their head spin.
I made this suggestion (based on KoW design) but it is not sinking in that there will be people that want to PvE and don't want to PvP as well as those that want to PvP just to ruin your day.
If the sheep all leave then the game is dead because there is no means (comple lack of incentive) for the wolves to PvP except amongst them selves.
Make a duel system as with any game where if anyone wants flagged or un-flagged can request a spar outside arena and win or lose there is no consequence. (gives all equal chance to partake and can settle arguments here and now)
Make the flagging system optional at some arbitrary level 20,30,40,50 and leave the karma in the system.
If flagged then always flagged can attack anyone (can never shut it off). \
If they choose to not partake of PvP they are never (can never turn it on) PvP enabled but still be attackable BUT can not attack anyone ever except when attacked by a PvP enabled player to defend themselves or in a (duel, arena, GvG, siege).
if both players are flagged then there is no consequence for dying but the player who died will drop either one piece of their gear (based on their karma) or a set amount of coin (based on their karma) (incentive to hunt like prey and take sides on the sheep)
if Player is flagged and attacks and the player being attacked is NOT flagged for PvP then the drop does not exist and player being attacked is protected from PvE death penalty. If player that attacks kills the player not flagged then the attacker will take a karma hit and the player that died will not lose experience. (no reason to kill since player can't attack you so punishment is fair)
If the player who is attacked kills his attacker then there is no drop but the player who attacked and died will lose experience (although you can attack you should have thought twice in doing so this is punishment ). If the un-flagged player loses he will lose experience and the attacker will take 1/2 the karma hit. (they still take experience loss because they did not want to partake and therefor should have not fought back.don't incite other into attacking you just so you can hide behind the flag) (however the attacker should take 1/2 karma because they still attacked a player that did not want to partake of PvP)
This system promotes a much better play fair policy and gives incentive to take sides , is dynamic deterrent instead of tried and true place guards here and there.
If by predetermined you mean, PVE that doesn't involve engaging in PVP, then, your absolutely correct. BDO is a themepark with endgame PVP, what little PVE there is, is very susceptible to being engaged in forced PVP. And for those determined to try and label BDO as a sandbox game, forget it, OW FFA PVP does not make a game a sandbox game, for sandbox games, pvp is not even a requirement. To me, it just looks like a game where they ran out of cash in development, and instead of creating some end game PVE content, they just hashed together a PVP game. Worse part of it is, is that if a PVE orientated player even attempts to stick with the game, they will be engaging in PVP whether they want to or not, as forced PVP is pretty much encouraged in this game. The games developers are going to learn a hard lesson if they think that kind of thing is acceptable. This is among the reasons why Asian developers struggle to break into the western market, despite so many previous failures, lessons don't seem to be getting learned.
Funny how the description you make of it could easily apply to EVE.
Eve Online is a PVP game, however, there is a consequence to ganking in high sec, its called Concorde, not only that but if you engage in it too often, then your security status increasingly restricts you from entering the higher sec systems, which is where the main trade hubs are, working off that negative sec rating is a tedious proposition, but if you don't then high sec is a very dangerous place to be, as Concorde etc. will attack you on sight, as will Station and Gate sentry guns. Wardec's are a way around this, and a fair number of alliances/corps engage in high sec wardec's but to avoid a wardec, all a player has to do is drop out of the corp they are in, into a newbie corp for a week, and carry on as normal. Unless BDO has PVP mechanics on that level, which it doesn't, then its hard to see how that applies, because at no time does BDO give you the choice, which is something that Eve Online does.
I know how it works, I played EVE a long time and think it's one of the best game out there. Because I play both games I can say that they are very similar. What you just described is close to what you get in BDO. Penalty for mindless ganking, that can be avoided if you are at war. Go red and you can expect guards to kill you on sight. Focus of both game is territory control of ressources, with a major focus on crafting. BDO is a sandbox mmo the same way EVE or UO are sandbox mmos.
I don't see BDO having more mindless ganking than EVE for the simple reason that there is nothing to gain from killing someone, unless you are trying to get them out of your playground. If pve focused player can enjoy EVE they certainly can enjoy BDO.
I know how it works, I played EVE a long time and think it's one of the best game out there. Because I play both games I can say that they are very similar. What you just described is close to what you get in BDO. Penalty for mindless ganking, that can be avoided if you are at war. Go red and you can expect guards to kill you on sight. Focus of both game is territory control of ressources, with a major focus on crafting. BDO is a sandbox mmo the same way EVE or UO are sandbox mmos.
I don't see BDO having more mindless ganking than EVE for the simple reason that there is nothing to gain from killing someone, unless you are trying to get them out of your playground. If pve focused player can enjoy EVE they certainly can enjoy BDO.
well one thing here eve never hyped itself as a PvE game to start with where as everyone and their dog is hyping BDO as PvE
I know how it works, I played EVE a long time and think it's one of the best game out there. Because I play both games I can say that they are very similar. What you just described is close to what you get in BDO. Penalty for mindless ganking, that can be avoided if you are at war. Go red and you can expect guards to kill you on sight. Focus of both game is territory control of ressources, with a major focus on crafting. BDO is a sandbox mmo the same way EVE or UO are sandbox mmos.
I don't see BDO having more mindless ganking than EVE for the simple reason that there is nothing to gain from killing someone, unless you are trying to get them out of your playground. If pve focused player can enjoy EVE they certainly can enjoy BDO.
You mistake PVP mechanics implementation for sandbox...
BDO couldn't be more far away from EVE design wise.
The former is level and massive gear progression based game from the ground up stuffed with isolated minigames, the latter is purely horizontal game with robust economy and complex game mechanics.
I know how it works, I played EVE a long time and think it's one of the best game out there. Because I play both games I can say that they are very similar. What you just described is close to what you get in BDO. Penalty for mindless ganking, that can be avoided if you are at war. Go red and you can expect guards to kill you on sight. Focus of both game is territory control of ressources, with a major focus on crafting. BDO is a sandbox mmo the same way EVE or UO are sandbox mmos.
I don't see BDO having more mindless ganking than EVE for the simple reason that there is nothing to gain from killing someone, unless you are trying to get them out of your playground. If pve focused player can enjoy EVE they certainly can enjoy BDO.
well one thing here eve never hyped itself as a PvE game to start with where as everyone and their dog is hyping BDO as PvE
Well BDO pve is miles ahead of EVE's, so why not hype it. It's not like they have to hide what the game is.
You basically don't know what you are talking about and are making these statements like they are facts.
Go try it and prove it wrong then come back here and tell me I will remove all the misinformation
OK. The following link proves that the flow chart you are basing your assumptions on is a proposal from the Western community managers to the Korean devs on how to change the pvp system in the West. It also shows that this system has not yet been implemented.
Note the part where it says "Below you will find an updated flowchart outlining a potential Flagging and Karma system, as with the Bounty System this is still just conceptual"
The "Gameplay" section of this link: http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/12313-cbt2-patch-notes/ is the only official information that the community manager has posted about how the pvp system actually works in the game right now, but it doesn't give a detailed breakdown of how flagging actually works.
Its possible that I just misinterpreted what you said, and the situation is confusing because the community managers have spent a lot of time detailing their proposals but haven't fully clarified how the game actually works, which is annoying. Further complicating matters is the fact that the Russian system and Korean systems are also different.
Like you I am worried about the implications of pvp starting at level 45 and experience loss if you die to a pker, but apart from the above CBT2 link there is no official information about how the flagging system works in detail so any discussion on the matter is more speculation than fact at this point.
I know how it works, I played EVE a long time and think it's one of the best game out there. Because I play both games I can say that they are very similar. What you just described is close to what you get in BDO. Penalty for mindless ganking, that can be avoided if you are at war. Go red and you can expect guards to kill you on sight. Focus of both game is territory control of ressources, with a major focus on crafting. BDO is a sandbox mmo the same way EVE or UO are sandbox mmos.
I don't see BDO having more mindless ganking than EVE for the simple reason that there is nothing to gain from killing someone, unless you are trying to get them out of your playground. If pve focused player can enjoy EVE they certainly can enjoy BDO.
well one thing here eve never hyped itself as a PvE game to start with where as everyone and their dog is hyping BDO as PvE
Well BDO pve is miles ahead of EVE's, so why not hype it. It's not like they have to hide what the game is.
Matter of opinion, it could also be said that the PVE in Eve is far more varied and has more depth, on the other hand, the PVE in BDO appears to be limited and disappears almost completely at a certain point in the game.
You basically don't know what you are talking about and are making these statements like they are facts.
Go try it and prove it wrong then come back here and tell me I will remove all the misinformation
OK. The following link proves that the flow chart you are basing your assumptions on is a proposal from the Western community managers to the Korean devs on how to change the pvp system in the West. It also shows that this system has not yet been implemented.
Note the part where it says "Below you will find an updated flowchart outlining a potential Flagging and Karma system, as with the Bounty System this is still just conceptual"
The "Gameplay" section of this link: http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/12313-cbt2-patch-notes/ is the only official information that the community manager has posted about how the pvp system actually works in the game right now, but it doesn't give a detailed breakdown of how flagging actually works.
Its possible that I just misinterpreted what you said, and the situation is confusing because the community managers have spent a lot of time detailing their proposals but haven't fully clarified how the game actually works, which is annoying. Further complicating matters is the fact that the Russian system and Korean systems are also different.
Like you I am worried about the implications of pvp starting at level 45 and experience loss if you die to a pker, but apart from the above CBT2 link there is no official information about how the flagging system works in detail so any discussion on the matter is more speculation than fact at this point.
by the time this hits Saturday or Sunday it is going to answer it once and for all but there is no buffs in current release so dying in PvP gives death penalty. period. attacker or victim and Karma rules only apply IF NOT FLAGGED UP.
I know how it works, I played EVE a long time and think it's one of the best game out there. Because I play both games I can say that they are very similar. What you just described is close to what you get in BDO. Penalty for mindless ganking, that can be avoided if you are at war. Go red and you can expect guards to kill you on sight. Focus of both game is territory control of ressources, with a major focus on crafting. BDO is a sandbox mmo the same way EVE or UO are sandbox mmos.
I don't see BDO having more mindless ganking than EVE for the simple reason that there is nothing to gain from killing someone, unless you are trying to get them out of your playground. If pve focused player can enjoy EVE they certainly can enjoy BDO.
well one thing here eve never hyped itself as a PvE game to start with where as everyone and their dog is hyping BDO as PvE
Well BDO pve is miles ahead of EVE's, so why not hype it. It's not like they have to hide what the game is.
Matter of opinion, it could also be said that the PVE in Eve is far more varied and has more depth, on the other hand, the PVE in BDO appears to be limited and disappears almost completely at a certain point in the game.
Except that my opinion is from an inside perspective. Are you playing the game ? I wouldn't expect someone that play both games to say that EVE has more varied PVE.
I know how it works, I played EVE a long time and think it's one of the best game out there. Because I play both games I can say that they are very similar. What you just described is close to what you get in BDO. Penalty for mindless ganking, that can be avoided if you are at war. Go red and you can expect guards to kill you on sight. Focus of both game is territory control of ressources, with a major focus on crafting. BDO is a sandbox mmo the same way EVE or UO are sandbox mmos.
I don't see BDO having more mindless ganking than EVE for the simple reason that there is nothing to gain from killing someone, unless you are trying to get them out of your playground. If pve focused player can enjoy EVE they certainly can enjoy BDO.
well one thing here eve never hyped itself as a PvE game to start with where as everyone and their dog is hyping BDO as PvE
Well BDO pve is miles ahead of EVE's, so why not hype it. It's not like they have to hide what the game is.
Matter of opinion, it could also be said that the PVE in Eve is far more varied and has more depth, on the other hand, the PVE in BDO appears to be limited and disappears almost completely at a certain point in the game.
no no noooo. PvE content never dries up. well, sorta maybe. daily quests are given by black spirit to grind mobs and kill a boss to get stones to enhance your equipment. world bosses spawn every 24 hours after they been killed.
You basically don't know what you are talking about and are making these statements like they are facts.
Go try it and prove it wrong then come back here and tell me I will remove all the misinformation
OK. The following link proves that the flow chart you are basing your assumptions on is a proposal from the Western community managers to the Korean devs on how to change the pvp system in the West. It also shows that this system has not yet been implemented.
Note the part where it says "Below you will find an updated flowchart outlining a potential Flagging and Karma system, as with the Bounty System this is still just conceptual"
The "Gameplay" section of this link: http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/12313-cbt2-patch-notes/ is the only official information that the community manager has posted about how the pvp system actually works in the game right now, but it doesn't give a detailed breakdown of how flagging actually works.
Its possible that I just misinterpreted what you said, and the situation is confusing because the community managers have spent a lot of time detailing their proposals but haven't fully clarified how the game actually works, which is annoying. Further complicating matters is the fact that the Russian system and Korean systems are also different.
Like you I am worried about the implications of pvp starting at level 45 and experience loss if you die to a pker, but apart from the above CBT2 link there is no official information about how the flagging system works in detail so any discussion on the matter is more speculation than fact at this point.
by the time this hits Saturday or Sunday it is going to answer it once and for all but there is no buffs in current release so dying in PvP gives death penalty. period. attacker or victim and Karma rules only apply IF NOT FLAGGED UP.
Thats the crux of the argument, when PVP happens to those who are not flagged up. The attacker(s) lose Karma, and the Victim loses XP. They could probably buy themselves a bit of goodwill from the PVE players if there wasn't an XP penalty to death by ganking.
Thats the crux of the argument, when PVP happens to those who are not flagged up. The attacker(s) lose Karma, and the Victim loses XP. They could probably buy themselves a bit of goodwill from the PVE players if there wasn't an XP penalty to death by ganking.
The most funny part is that you need PVE, a lot of it, to stay competitive in PVP.
Vicious circle and extraordinary poor game desing.
Thats the crux of the argument, when PVP happens to those who are not flagged up. The attacker(s) lose Karma, and the Victim loses XP. They could probably buy themselves a bit of goodwill from the PVE players if there wasn't an XP penalty to death by ganking.
The most funny part is that you need PVE, a lot of it, to stay competitive in PVP.
Vicious circle and extraordinary poor game desing.
This game doesn't even try to encourage competitive PvP, luckily I have blade and soul for that. Black Desert is all about making money, getting geared, and being powerful. Similar to Archeage with less P2W.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Thats the crux of the argument, when PVP happens to those who are not flagged up. The attacker(s) lose Karma, and the Victim loses XP. They could probably buy themselves a bit of goodwill from the PVE players if there wasn't an XP penalty to death by ganking.
The most funny part is that you need PVE, a lot of it, to stay competitive in PVP.
Vicious circle and extraordinary poor game desing.
So this goes to page 1 first post and again full circle :pleased:
Comments
You know, I'm getting to the point that I am seriously hoping that every single MMO that is ever released from now until forever will only be an "Asian" MMO so that these types of players will just give up and go away and we can finally stop reading all of these bigotted comments by "Asian" MMO haters.
There are many "Asian" MMO's that have no similarities. Many of them come out that have very little, if anything, in common with one another. They are MMOs, period.
Funny... WoW, ESO, SWG (emu), UO and other games, don't/didn't.
How's that for similarities?
Next up -
This game sucks because of gender locked ages and sexes. That is completely lame. I'm amazed that this group of people on mmorpg.com has anyone defending this POS.
It's trash.
Just stop.
I know we're all hungry for a great new mmo, but all you guys do when you get eboners over a new steaming pile of crap is become even more bitter.
PS- it's not about it being an asian MMO stop being racist jag offs... it's just a terrible game just from a feature standpoint.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Even with sufficiently high PvE traits in a game then it becomes a case of lack or lore, lack of endgame, endgame is a grind, the game is too much of a grind, content is too hard, content is too easy, content is too complicated, too difficult to find a party, too easy to find a bad party, lack of solo play support, lack of casual support, too time-intensive, too little value crafting, not enough crafting materials, horrible player auction and market, cash shop options, too much of a P2W.
So basically Waterlily for any game that comes out as an MMO one of the above complaints will exist NO MATTER WHAT! No one is ever happy with games, everyone likes to gripe and complain without offering actual discussion on game mechanics that can support it game play. That's the most asinine thing about the player base in general: too much unhappiness and not enough of a "hey devs we believe this input may help" and too much of a "omgz your game sux I'mma call my card company and demand a chargeback because your content SUCKS!". It's also the latter statement we're seeing so frequently in the forums these days.
I'm not accusing of you either and per se of this but rather our expectations need to be grounded based on the design the developers had hoped for primarily and, secondly, whether there is a platform and medium for quality dialogue and conversations on how to improve a game and its mechanics. I'm an old-school realist who accepts game limits and fosters my expectations on those limits.
Personally I am happy that games like Black Desert Online are out, I tried it and I accept it is not for me and I won't white-knight it. However the important of BDO is to help promote new content and new variations of mmo's so that companies are less frightened of the risks of implementing new content that's unfamiliar or has no prior background to compare to. That's the beauty of really indie games and smaller dev studios: the chance to go outside of the triple-A format and really break the mold and help introduce new elements into the mmo genre that, whether they succeed or fail, may help to promote future mmo's in quality content and design. Had Ultima and EQ never taken their own risks WoW would never have either been developed or achieved the success it did and while I don't like WoW, I can appreciate it's promoting of MMO's to the general audience that it's predecessors were never quite able to do to the level that WoW did.
Yea wall~o~text...I know...
BDO is a themepark with endgame PVP, what little PVE there is, is very susceptible to being engaged in forced PVP.
And for those determined to try and label BDO as a sandbox game, forget it, OW FFA PVP does not make a game a sandbox game, for sandbox games, pvp is not even a requirement.
To me, it just looks like a game where they ran out of cash in development, and instead of creating some end game PVE content, they just hashed together a PVP game.
Worse part of it is, is that if a PVE orientated player even attempts to stick with the game, they will be engaging in PVP whether they want to or not, as forced PVP is pretty much encouraged in this game.
The games developers are going to learn a hard lesson if they think that kind of thing is acceptable.
This is among the reasons why Asian developers struggle to break into the western market, despite so many previous failures, lessons don't seem to be getting learned.
Unless BDO has PVP mechanics on that level, which it doesn't, then its hard to see how that applies, because at no time does BDO give you the choice, which is something that Eve Online does.
I see the current system as a big issue and if they don't change it the game will go down so fast it will make their head spin.
I made this suggestion (based on KoW design) but it is not sinking in that there will be people that want to PvE and don't want to PvP as well as those that want to PvP just to ruin your day.
If the sheep all leave then the game is dead because there is no means (comple lack of incentive) for the wolves to PvP except amongst them selves.
Make a duel system as with any game where if anyone wants flagged or un-flagged can request a spar outside arena and win or lose there is no consequence. (gives all equal chance to partake and can settle arguments here and now)
Make the flagging system optional at some arbitrary level 20,30,40,50 and leave the karma in the system.
If flagged then always flagged can attack anyone (can never shut it off). \
If they choose to not partake of PvP they are never (can never turn it on) PvP enabled but still be attackable BUT can not attack anyone ever except when attacked by a PvP enabled player to defend themselves or in a (duel, arena, GvG, siege).
if both players are flagged then there is no consequence for dying but the player who died will drop either one piece of their gear (based on their karma) or a set amount of coin (based on their karma) (incentive to hunt like prey and take sides on the sheep)
if Player is flagged and attacks and the player being attacked is NOT flagged for PvP then the drop does not exist and player being attacked is protected from PvE death penalty. If player that attacks kills the player not flagged then the attacker will take a karma hit and the player that died will not lose experience. (no reason to kill since player can't attack you so punishment is fair)
If the player who is attacked kills his attacker then there is no drop but the player who attacked and died will lose experience (although you can attack you should have thought twice in doing so this is punishment ). If the un-flagged player loses he will lose experience and the attacker will take 1/2 the karma hit. (they still take experience loss because they did not want to partake and therefor should have not fought back.don't incite other into attacking you just so you can hide behind the flag) (however the attacker should take 1/2 karma because they still attacked a player that did not want to partake of PvP)
This system promotes a much better play fair policy and gives incentive to take sides , is dynamic deterrent instead of tried and true place guards here and there.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
I don't see BDO having more mindless ganking than EVE for the simple reason that there is nothing to gain from killing someone, unless you are trying to get them out of your playground. If pve focused player can enjoy EVE they certainly can enjoy BDO.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
BDO couldn't be more far away from EVE design wise.
The former is level and massive gear progression based game from the ground up stuffed with isolated minigames, the latter is purely horizontal game with robust economy and complex game mechanics.
OK. The following link proves that the flow chart you are basing your assumptions on is a proposal from the Western community managers to the Korean devs on how to change the pvp system in the West. It also shows that this system has not yet been implemented.
http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/8044-updated-v20-bounty-hunters-karma-and-flagging-discussion/
Note the part where it says "Below you will find an updated flowchart outlining a potential Flagging and Karma system, as with the Bounty System this is still just conceptual"
For further reading on the topic please scroll down to the Karma and PK section of this page: http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/8038-pm-diary-22-cash-shop-and-more/
This describes how the western localization team has been petitioning for changes to the pvp system.
The "Gameplay" section of this link: http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/12313-cbt2-patch-notes/ is the only official information that the community manager has posted about how the pvp system actually works in the game right now, but it doesn't give a detailed breakdown of how flagging actually works.
Its possible that I just misinterpreted what you said, and the situation is confusing because the community managers have spent a lot of time detailing their proposals but haven't fully clarified how the game actually works, which is annoying. Further complicating matters is the fact that the Russian system and Korean systems are also different.
Like you I am worried about the implications of pvp starting at level 45 and experience loss if you die to a pker, but apart from the above CBT2 link there is no official information about how the flagging system works in detail so any discussion on the matter is more speculation than fact at this point.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
no no noooo. PvE content never dries up. well, sorta maybe. daily quests are given by black spirit to grind mobs and kill a boss to get stones to enhance your equipment. world bosses spawn every 24 hours after they been killed.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
They could probably buy themselves a bit of goodwill from the PVE players if there wasn't an XP penalty to death by ganking.
Vicious circle and extraordinary poor game desing.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.