Erillion said: I know. I posted it here a year ago ... You are a bit late with that link ;-)
A rough story outline is not the same as a detailed report on every mission and possible Story-Branch (including videos).
Why not only Internal QA? Because some of the most active volunteer testers from the Issue Council are as thorough in documenting bugs as professional QA. Alas, i personally do not have that much time to join.
I think this is a bad idea. QA is one area where you don't want to scrimp and save, off-loading your testing to volunteers - good or not, just doesn't make sense. If you're doing it in-house you can more easily organise focus testing, ensure less ticket duplication, not be anywhere near concerned about NDA leaks etc etc. It just seems rather unecessary when they already limit numbers for initial PTU signups.
Wasn't it just a short while ago, some where predicting (as they have a lot) this game is destined to sunset in 4 weeks?
Yet here they are again up in arms about a perfectly normal assemble of a small testing team under NDA.... that sounds like a project moving forward to me, but sure it's primed to sunset right?
Wasn't it just a short while ago, some where predicting (as they have a lot) this game is destined to sunset in 4 weeks?
Yet here they are again up in arms about a perfectly normal assemble of a small testing team under NDA.... that sounds like a project moving forward to me, but sure it's primed to sunset right?
Have you not heard yet ? The anti-SC crowd even has an "E.L.E. Extinction Level Event" Counter running. Seems like a comet will crash into SC within the next 2 weeks. *** Yawn *** Again ;-)
Personally i think its better for the game to have 1000 dedicated volunteer testers that really DO the testing AND write test documentation. Compared to 250.000 testers that play for 15 min and only 1 % of those 250k really submit bug reports - most of those reports not being detailed enough to be useful. The Issue Council showed who was REALLY active amongst the testers.
Evocatus (plural Evocati) was the Latin term for a soldier in the Roman army who had served out his time and obtained a discharge(missio) but had voluntarily enlisted again at the invitation of the consul or other commander.[1]
Considering this is CIG staff, I'm going to assume he knows what he is talking about and not lying. The most obvious question to ask when reading that link is, 'where the heck is your QA team?' It is not mentioned at all. I mean... you use your customers to test 'pre-alpha-just-got-it-to-compile' code and no internal testers? And then you screw your customers who bough 'alpha tester' slots?
I've heard a few things about CIG as my wife works in HR and her company got a few ex-CIG staff applying. Thought most of it was BS but now, think my wife needs to look at some of the people applying more closely.
I think this is a good move from RSI. Friends and family alphas are always needed after the phase where professional QA testers test it, and before the phase where it's released to larger audience. Evocati Test Flight sounds like it would work well as a-kind-of friends and family alpha.
I dislike the NDA, though. With all the development reports they release and with how open they pretend to be, it just shows how closely guarded secret this game's development really is. Until it hits public testing RSI allows only information produced by their own PR machine. There are very little to none events where people could test earlier builds, media doesn't get invited to test out earlier builds freely, and now Evocati testers have NDA too. All information releases are guarded and controlled so closely that I'm hereby calling this Soviet Union style open development process.
Haha no matter what Chris does he always sticks his foot in his mouth.I think the guy is just so non legit that his mind is boggling with ideas how to avoid looking FAKE.There would be no problem if he was legit and HONEST but he is not so he struggles with everyday decisions.
He seems to forget this is the supporters game ,NOT HIS game ,he has NO GAME without the supporters,each and EVERY supporter should be a part of the testing at ALL times. So in other words,he is ok with taking your money and then kick your ass out the door.
I never understood why so many bugs exist in games anyhow,the people working on the ideas should be testing those ideas at all times.What are they doing ,writing code then never look at their work?I have seen game breaking bugs over the years that only a complete blind man or idiot could miss,so really says a lot about the quality of game design.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Considering this is CIG staff, I'm going to assume he knows what he is talking about and not lying. The most obvious question to ask when reading that link is, 'where the heck is your QA team?' It is not mentioned at all. I mean... you use your customers to test 'pre-alpha-just-got-it-to-compile' code and no internal testers? And then you screw your customers who bough 'alpha tester' slots?
I've heard a few things about CIG as my wife works in HR and her company got a few ex-CIG staff applying. Thought most of it was BS but now, think my wife needs to look at some of the people applying more closely.
Let me guess,
You are among the "prophets" who foretold the brake
down of CIG and the bombing of SC / SQ42 ? The oracles who saw SC /
SQ42 for that it really is, namely a well organized Ponzi sceme ?
Apparently
this didn't work out very well for you people and now you need to come
up with new hot air hyperboles about CR ans CIG.
However, please humor us. What exactly has this test to do with the overall development being open or not ?
And
while you are at it please give us examples of other crowdfunded
projects displaying this transparency about their development process. I
have backed more than 15 games over the years. AC / SQ42 is the first
where each and every team gives me a detailed monthly report about what they worked on and what comes next.
I think this is a good move from RSI. Friends and family alphas are always needed after the phase where professional QA testers test it, and before the phase where it's released to larger audience. Evocati Test Flight sounds like it would work well as a-kind-of friends and family alpha.
I agreed with your post to most extent, except to say, there is already a lesser-populated "PTU", which was a selective recruitment of contributing bug-reporters. Maybe you weren't aware. So they already had this "lesser sized backer population" testing things before material went to the more broadly accessed "PU". So this is another, smaller portion, and that's starting to get ridiculous. Just reduce the number of "PTU" participants and lose the NDA.
Also, Erillion, please don't argue this is SQ42 NDA, because we know it isn't. Erin said there's not going to be a SQ42 alpha. If I had to pick a person on this project to whom I would listen for any real data, it's he.
Considering this is CIG staff, I'm going to assume he knows what he is talking about and not lying. The most obvious question to ask when reading that link is, 'where the heck is your QA team?' It is not mentioned at all. I mean... you use your customers to test 'pre-alpha-just-got-it-to-compile' code and no internal testers? And then you screw your customers who bough 'alpha tester' slots?
I've heard a few things about CIG as my wife works in HR and her company got a few ex-CIG staff applying. Thought most of it was BS but now, think my wife needs to look at some of the people applying more closely.
Let me guess,
You are among the "prophets" who foretold the brake
down of CIG and the bombing of SC / SQ42 ? The oracles who saw SC /
SQ42 for that it really is, namely a well organized Ponzi sceme ?
Apparently
this didn't work out very well for you people and now you need to come
up with new hot air hyperboles about CR ans CIG.
However, please humor us. What exactly has this test to do with the overall development being open or not ?
And
while you are at it please give us examples of other crowdfunded
projects displaying this transparency about their development process. I
have backed more than 15 games over the years. AC / SQ42 is the first
where each and every team gives me a detailed monthly report about what they worked on and what comes next.
[mod edit]
Attacking me isn't going to hide the fact CIG just screwed over supporters who bought alpha access.
The dev process is so open that no one knew Star marine was in the PU all along. /s
You are among the "prophets" who foretold the brake
down of CIG and the bombing of SC / SQ42 ? The oracles who saw SC /
SQ42 for that it really is, namely a well organized Ponzi sceme ?
Apparently
this didn't work out very well for you people and now you need to come
up with new hot air hyperboles about CR ans CIG.
This is my favorite kind of post, take anyone who ever had an issue with the games development and lump them all in the most extreme of groups. Oh, you dont like the way they are selling $3000 ships? Then you are in the group that thinks a comet will hit SC, haha!!!!!!
What a small mind you must have to think this way... Isnt it funny how Erillion agrees with you??? What does that say about him...
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
You are among the "prophets" who foretold the brake
down of CIG and the bombing of SC / SQ42 ? The oracles who saw SC /
SQ42 for that it really is, namely a well organized Ponzi sceme ?
Apparently
this didn't work out very well for you people and now you need to come
up with new hot air hyperboles about CR ans CIG.
This is my favorite kind of post, take anyone who ever had an issue with the games development and lump them all in the most extreme of groups. Oh, you dont like the way they are selling $3000 ships? Then you are in the group that thinks a comet will hit SC, haha!!!!!!
What a small mind you must have to think this way... Isnt it funny how Erillion agrees with you??? What does that say about him...
Careful! Your post will probably be deleted for calling them out for attacking someone while their post gets a small mod edit.
What happened to the 'most open game development'?
Most open does not mean absolutely everything is done in public.
Every company that puts anyhing out on a PTU tests it first.
I assume this is being done to speeds things up but some people may actually enjoy doing it.
The key remains how are the monthly updates progressing. I saw Brenics ask the question early in the thread on last months update. The question was buried though by mindless trolling. The PTU updates are were the game is at - for better or for worse, warts and all. And I for one am not aware of any other game that has been so open.
Personally i think its better for the game to have 1000 dedicated volunteer testers that really DO the testing AND write test documentation. Compared to 250.000 testers that play for 15 min and only 1 % of those 250k really submit bug reports - most of those reports not being detailed enough to be useful. The Issue Council showed who was REALLY active amongst the testers.
Have fun
That part makes sense. The NDA on the other hand, does not.
That part makes sense. The NDA on the other hand, does not.
Perhaps CIG does not want to give the Goons/SomethingAwful.com commandoes comedy video material from early builds that still have bugs in it.
Under NDA making their usual "Best of early bugs" video lands the Goon/SA player that leaked it in hot water.
I suspect the Evocati builds will be "watermarked" ... should not be too hard to identify leaks.
Have fun
Erillion. You know CIG tried to be funny with their own bug reveals. You know that a person doesn't need to be a part of "those who you are programmed to believe are the bogeyman" to make a video. You know "Best of early bugs video" would be a horrible name for a video. You know no one from SA cares if they're in hot water with CIG. You know no one cares if there are leaks, because CIG already tells us what's supposedly being done. Whether those announcement pan out to be true or otherwise is another story. Maybe it's just to keep us on our toes.
I don't know why you can't just admit, it's to save face for the marketing image.
Ortwin and Chris say, "BUUURRRPP why ain't I gittin ma mooonneeeyyyy", and the sad guys in Montreal say, "We tried everything, heavily censoring 3rd party sites, concept and LTI sales, threat of future extra cost in multiple packaging, shills, but our funding keeps lowering every month, grand stimperors!". The stimperors say, "Wut about Sanday! Here, girl! She was the best salesperson, ever since she was a little garl!". The sad Montreal guys say, "But we don't know why you pay her. We do all the marketing layout that's fleeced so many people. We even talked a few out of their childrens' college funds! We even plan to patent and sell this process."
So it goes round and round like that, and Montreal says to Stimperors, "Well, it's a little damn hard to keep this rolling when your engineers don't know what headless software is, or how to add parts to a hyped "modular build" without this youtube shitshow.". So they think, fine, we will make an NDA, give those participants a sort of reveled status, as galactic warriors, true believers, and for graet justice!
My hypothetical is much more steeped in evidence and common sense than yours.
That part makes sense. The NDA on the other hand, does not.
Perhaps CIG does not want to give the Goons/SomethingAwful.com commandoes comedy video material from early builds that still have bugs in it.
Under NDA making their usual "Best of early bugs" video lands the Goon/SA player that leaked it in hot water.
I suspect the Evocati builds will be "watermarked" ... should not be too hard to identify leaks.
Have fun
If you really think that's the reason, then you must think CIG are run by a bunch of idiots. I mean, an internet comedy forum dictates a multi million dollar company policy? A policy that goes against the narrative of 'most open development' AND screws over your supporters that purchased 'alpha access'?
I thought you'd have a higher opinion of CIG but man, I guess not.
That part makes sense. The NDA on the other hand, does not.
Perhaps CIG does not want to give the Goons/SomethingAwful.com commandoes comedy video material from early builds that still have bugs in it.
Under NDA making their usual "Best of early bugs" video lands the Goon/SA player that leaked it in hot water.
I suspect the Evocati builds will be "watermarked" ... should not be too hard to identify leaks.
Have fun
If you really think that's the reason, then you must think CIG are run by a bunch of idiots. I mean, an internet comedy forum dictates a multi million dollar company policy? A policy that goes against the narrative of 'most open development' AND screws over your supporters that purchased 'alpha access'?
I thought you'd have a higher opinion of CIG but man, I guess not.
But the comedy forum does affect the project. The first ever implementation of pvp consequence was in knee-jerk response to videos of kamikazes around Port Olisar. 2.2 was labeled the "goon patch".
What kind of direction do they have, if they need to be so hyper-reactive? It's not that we don't know game development, but that we don't know Star Citizen development. (tm)
But the comedy forum does affect the project. The first ever implementation of pvp consequence was in knee-jerk response to videos of kamikazes around Port Olisar. 2.2 was labeled the "goon patch".
What kind of direction do they have, if they need to be so hyper-reactive? It's not that we don't know game development, but that we don't know Star Citizen development. (tm)
Go ahead ... ignore three years worth of design documents and dev answers outlining PvP consequences.
Three years ... clearly a "knee-jerk" response. Clearly "hyper-reactive".
Comments
I think this is a bad idea. QA is one area where you don't want to scrimp and save, off-loading your testing to volunteers - good or not, just doesn't make sense. If you're doing it in-house you can more easily organise focus testing, ensure less ticket duplication, not be anywhere near concerned about NDA leaks etc etc. It just seems rather unecessary when they already limit numbers for initial PTU signups.
---
They seem very serious about the NDA...
Here’s how to enroll in Evocati:
· Print out, edit the personal info, sign, and return the NDA along with a copy of official photo ID to evocati@cloudimperiumgames.com.
· Once we receive your signed NDA, we’ll manually email you a one-time use invitation token to a special Discord server.
· When a build is ready to enter an Evocati testing phase, you’ll receive an email with further playtest instructions.
· Our first playtest will come later this month.
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/326088/is-this-a-legit-email-from-cig-evocati-test-flight-closed-nda-testing#latest
Yet here they are again up in arms about a perfectly normal assemble of a small testing team under NDA.... that sounds like a project moving forward to me, but sure it's primed to sunset right?
Have fun
I guess this is VIP Alpha testing slots and the 'regular' alpha testing slots that people paid for is gone?
There were some talk of 'I don't know if it is exactly illegal but it is immoral' by CIG people. Guess they were talking about this?
Original - http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3748466&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=4551#post462019951 (paywall)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-15-through-gritted-teeth-star-citizen-developer-gives-player-whopping-usd2500-refund
CIG is sued by Crytek
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/14/16776300/crytek-star-citizen-lawsuit-cig-rsi
EX-Backer StreetRoller sues Chris Roberts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojx7VcbowYQ
Have fun
Have fun
http://i.imgur.com/ZRVRUiH.png
Considering this is CIG staff, I'm going to assume he knows what he is talking about and not lying.
The most obvious question to ask when reading that link is, 'where the heck is your QA team?'
It is not mentioned at all. I mean... you use your customers to test 'pre-alpha-just-got-it-to-compile' code and no internal testers?
And then you screw your customers who bough 'alpha tester' slots?
I've heard a few things about CIG as my wife works in HR and her company got a few ex-CIG staff applying.
Thought most of it was BS but now, think my wife needs to look at some of the people applying more closely.
Original - http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3748466&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=4551#post462019951 (paywall)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-15-through-gritted-teeth-star-citizen-developer-gives-player-whopping-usd2500-refund
CIG is sued by Crytek
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/14/16776300/crytek-star-citizen-lawsuit-cig-rsi
EX-Backer StreetRoller sues Chris Roberts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojx7VcbowYQ
Have fun
I dislike the NDA, though. With all the development reports they release and with how open they pretend to be, it just shows how closely guarded secret this game's development really is. Until it hits public testing RSI allows only information produced by their own PR machine. There are very little to none events where people could test earlier builds, media doesn't get invited to test out earlier builds freely, and now Evocati testers have NDA too. All information releases are guarded and controlled so closely that I'm hereby calling this Soviet Union style open development process.
He seems to forget this is the supporters game ,NOT HIS game ,he has NO GAME without the supporters,each and EVERY supporter should be a part of the testing at ALL times.
So in other words,he is ok with taking your money and then kick your ass out the door.
I never understood why so many bugs exist in games anyhow,the people working on the ideas should be testing those ideas at all times.What are they doing ,writing code then never look at their work?I have seen game breaking bugs over the years that only a complete blind man or idiot could miss,so really says a lot about the quality of game design.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
You are among the "prophets" who foretold the brake down of CIG and the bombing of SC / SQ42 ? The oracles who saw SC / SQ42 for that it really is, namely a well organized Ponzi sceme ?
Apparently this didn't work out very well for you people and now you need to come up with new hot air hyperboles about CR ans CIG.
However, please humor us. What exactly has this test to do with the overall development being open or not ?
And while you are at it please give us examples of other crowdfunded projects displaying this transparency about their development process. I have backed more than 15 games over the years. AC / SQ42 is the first where each and every team gives me a detailed monthly report about what they worked on and what comes next.
[mod edit]
Also, Erillion, please don't argue this is SQ42 NDA, because we know it isn't. Erin said there's not going to be a SQ42 alpha. If I had to pick a person on this project to whom I would listen for any real data, it's he.
Original - http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3748466&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=4551#post462019951 (paywall)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-15-through-gritted-teeth-star-citizen-developer-gives-player-whopping-usd2500-refund
CIG is sued by Crytek
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/14/16776300/crytek-star-citizen-lawsuit-cig-rsi
EX-Backer StreetRoller sues Chris Roberts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojx7VcbowYQ
What a small mind you must have to think this way... Isnt it funny how Erillion agrees with you??? What does that say about him...
Every company that puts anyhing out on a PTU tests it first.
I assume this is being done to speeds things up but some people may actually enjoy doing it.
The key remains how are the monthly updates progressing. I saw Brenics ask the question early in the thread on last months update. The question was buried though by mindless trolling. The PTU updates are were the game is at - for better or for worse, warts and all. And I for one am not aware of any other game that has been so open.
Under NDA making their usual "Best of early bugs" video lands the Goon/SA player that leaked it in hot water.
I suspect the Evocati builds will be "watermarked" ... should not be too hard to identify leaks.
Have fun
I don't know why you can't just admit, it's to save face for the marketing image.
Ortwin and Chris say, "BUUURRRPP why ain't I gittin ma mooonneeeyyyy", and the sad guys in Montreal say, "We tried everything, heavily censoring 3rd party sites, concept and LTI sales, threat of future extra cost in multiple packaging, shills, but our funding keeps lowering every month, grand stimperors!". The stimperors say, "Wut about Sanday! Here, girl! She was the best salesperson, ever since she was a little garl!". The sad Montreal guys say, "But we don't know why you pay her. We do all the marketing layout that's fleeced so many people. We even talked a few out of their childrens' college funds! We even plan to patent and sell this process."
So it goes round and round like that, and Montreal says to Stimperors, "Well, it's a little damn hard to keep this rolling when your engineers don't know what headless software is, or how to add parts to a hyped "modular build" without this youtube shitshow.". So they think, fine, we will make an NDA, give those participants a sort of reveled status, as galactic warriors, true believers, and for graet justice!
My hypothetical is much more steeped in evidence and common sense than yours.
Just like Roboute Guilliman i prefer to follow up the hypothetical with the practical.
Unlike you.
Have fun
I mean, an internet comedy forum dictates a multi million dollar company policy?
A policy that goes against the narrative of 'most open development' AND screws over your supporters that purchased 'alpha access'?
I thought you'd have a higher opinion of CIG but man, I guess not.
Original - http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3748466&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=4551#post462019951 (paywall)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-15-through-gritted-teeth-star-citizen-developer-gives-player-whopping-usd2500-refund
CIG is sued by Crytek
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/14/16776300/crytek-star-citizen-lawsuit-cig-rsi
EX-Backer StreetRoller sues Chris Roberts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojx7VcbowYQ
What kind of direction do they have, if they need to be so hyper-reactive? It's not that we don't know game development, but that we don't know Star Citizen development. (tm)
Three years ... clearly a "knee-jerk" response. Clearly "hyper-reactive".
Have fun