I fail to see any contradiction. Nowhere in the footage CR says that certain features / stretch goals aren't going to made it into the final product.
What he says is that certain stretch goals will be added after the release.
and is now saying he will be releasing a "less impressive game for the sake of having it out more quickly"and then adding stuff to it later, you dont see the contradiction?
Where in the video does CR say this ?
I watched the footage 3 times and i just can't hear him mention anything even remotely close about stretch goals being cut off the game.
What he very clearly states is that SC 1.0 will release will all systems in place, a fully working "ecosystem" like crafting, pvp, exploration etc and some of the latest goals will be added later.
I have the feeling that not many people bothered to actually watch the video. The important stuff discussed here starts at 23:20.
So you are saying that the missing stretch goals will not make the game MORE impressive? So launching without those goals in place would make the game LESS impressive?
I'm not saying the goals were cut, I dont know why you fans always try and derail every topic with your epic exaggerations. I am saying that Chris himself said he would not be held to "artificial" deadlines in order to release a less impressive game and yet now that is exactly what he is doing. You can argue all day long but releasing early without some of the promised features makes the game less impressive which is the contradiction you have a hard time understanding.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Is there a list somewhere of the things that aren't making it into the release?
Don't have time to watch a 30 minute video.
That has not been announced yet nor is it in the forseeable future until we get a little close to the actual commercial launch, to my knowledge.
Thanks
Well... I guess I can't have much of an opinion on it one way or the other.
It could be the right thing to do, or it could be a travesty. Guess we won't know until some more info is released.
Basically this, it's hard to say what this means for the overall product that will release. Could be a good thing as you said, or it could be a bad thing. Either way that result remains to be seen at this point.
Can't we at least agree that it's a newsworthy different thing? Or maybe even take just one tiny step further and say that it's less than what was once promoted to be there at release?
The contortions to make this seem at worst neutral are hurting my back just watching them.
I think its newsworthy but I also dont think its a big deal.
The amount of denial from the people who support this game and company is astounding.
i normally avoid the star citizen threads on this site like the plague.i have given money to this project having said that i wouldn't dare hesitate to say at this point if any backer of star citizen thinks this is how crowdfunding is supposed to work and everything is right as rain with how this project has been managed they are simply only seeing what they want to see at this point!
I lost track of how many times something was said or done by CIG and everyone is like "kool" or "that's awesome" and i'm over here like "have you lost your damn mind"
I don't think that the backers are claiming that everything is right as rain. What I do think is that SC has become isolated and critiqued and hyper-analyzed in a vacuum. I don't think this is how crowdfunding is supposed to work, but you can't say it isn't a reality of crowdfunding. I'm by no means a crowdfunding expert. I've probably backed 10 or 11 projects in total. SC is one of them.
I have backed 8 projects on Kickstarter. Of those 8 projects, 3 projects aren't past their deadline yet. 1 project actually shipped and 4 are in various states of release (alpha, etc), but past their due dates. Shoot! HEX: Shards of fate had an estimated delivery date of 2013 and you don't hear anything about it..... *crickets* and it's a freakin' TCG!
Anyway, as it appears, 100% of KS games (based on my experience) miss their target date. I actually have a spreadsheet showing, I believe, 70% of games estimated to ship by 2014 were late. Something like that. So, by all accounts, it is how it works.
If someone feels like actually putting some effort into a logical, intelligent argument then why not try to find a metric comparing progress of games in relation to Star Citizen? Something like that. Unfortunately there aren't apples-to-apples arguments made when talking about Star Citizen, it boils down to "You're Wrong!!", "No you are!!", "No you are <insert funny Internet meme>"
Sorry, but it's pathetic.
It's ALL about the amount of money he asked for, the ridiculous amount he's gotten and the fact that he wasn't able to create a playable game yet and is unlikely to meet even the initial goals.
That's quite a leap to make, if you mean meeting the original 6 million dollar game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Anyway, as it appears, 100% of KS games (based on my experience) miss their target date. I actually have a spreadsheet showing, I believe, 70% of games estimated to ship by 2014 were late. Something like that. So, by all accounts, it is how it works.
Spreading more dis-information to support your opinion again I see.
While the number of successfully-funded games is increasing - from 5 in 2009 to 207 in
2012 - the percentage of those games actually finding their way into
people's hands on time and in their full and promised state remains
fairly constant.
I do like how you leave yourself a backdoor with the (based on my experience) comment. You are a sly one indeed. 100% miss their target date... LOL
I have also seen from another report online that only 30% of crowd funded games release. Also your number there end in 2012. So yours need to be taken with a shovel full of salt. Other part of it, I have read about some games releasing when and as promised but the game was so bad it was not worth playing. So again, your numbers cant take that into account.
EDIT: And SC is not a game that falls into released when promised or with the features promised. lol So if we want by how much gamers have spent backing games. SC would bring down the numbers as well.
First off, all statistics and studies should be taken with a gain of salt so I dont understand your point. An avid fan of the game said 100% of the kickstarters for games do not launch on time and I showed evidence that some do, making his 100% figure invalid. What is the point of your 30% number? Does it not also prove that the guy making the 100% fail to launch claim is yet again wrong? Is there a point to your post or are you just confirming mine?
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Is there a list somewhere of the things that aren't making it into the release?
Don't have time to watch a 30 minute video.
That has not been announced yet nor is it in the forseeable future until we get a little close to the actual commercial launch, to my knowledge.
Thanks
Well... I guess I can't have much of an opinion on it one way or the other.
It could be the right thing to do, or it could be a travesty. Guess we won't know until some more info is released.
Basically this, it's hard to say what this means for the overall product that will release. Could be a good thing as you said, or it could be a bad thing. Either way that result remains to be seen at this point.
Can't we at least agree that it's a newsworthy different thing? Or maybe even take just one tiny step further and say that it's less than what was once promoted to be there at release?
The contortions to make this seem at worst neutral are hurting my back just watching them.
I think its newsworthy but I also dont think its a big deal.
Taken out of context? Sure no biggie.
But in the context of much more money raised than expected, many statements made about one of the great things about not being beholden to studios and investors being that no one can impose artificial deadlines on them, many denials of "feature creep" being a problem and previous statements from the gaming press such as this one:
"It's one part massively multiplayer space sim and one part (entirely separate) single-player and co-op story campaign, and its feature list looks like the kind of thing a five-year-old, unfazed by the crushing limitations of reality, would come up with if you asked them to imagine their perfect space game."
And now it seems like a heaping dose of reality has finally managed to insinuate itself into CR's consciousness...
The deal gets a bit bigger in context, don't you think?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Can't we at least agree that it's a newsworthy different thing? Or maybe even take just one tiny step further and say that it's less than what was once promoted to be there at release?
The contortions to make this seem at worst neutral are hurting my back just watching them.
Personally I don't know/remember what was promised and TBH I don't care what was promised. A space game made by CR with all the usual stuff you would expect is all I ask for.
What I have seem so far is keeping me happy. I understand project management and game development enough to understand why things the way they are.
I have realistic expectations on how a budget shift from 6 million to 112 million can drastically change project scope. I understand sometimes a project doesn't come together (except to everyone hands on to a project) till many different pieces are in place which individually might look like nothing but once all pieces are linked together there is that 'oh right, there it is'.
I don't over react to news but TBH it really annoys me when people fly off the handle posting shit here because it is obvious they read too much into everything.
I am really disgusted by the personal attacks that go on against other posters, CR, staff working on the game and all around behavior that, if done in a room face to face would end entirely different then someone just getting some bars.
I have taken a step back because I realise nothing will ever shut up the detractors or disuade the supporters until the game come out or does not. At this point in time I still on't think paying £25 a few years ago will go to waste. I have spent more on other games that are dead but at least those received far less bad mouthing from the posters here but an equally less lifeline.
I know it will not happen, too many people will lose face because that is the type of person they are, but I just want to stop reading about the game till it comes out. THEN I can judge it.
It grows tiresome trying to communicate about this game to the same level of annoyance I get trying to talk to people of religion...
Remember, Santa is real, so is the boogey man, and you all know exactly what is going on...right up until you find out you didn't.
Is there a list somewhere of the things that aren't making it into the release?
Don't have time to watch a 30 minute video.
That has not been announced yet nor is it in the forseeable future until we get a little close to the actual commercial launch, to my knowledge.
Thanks
Well... I guess I can't have much of an opinion on it one way or the other.
It could be the right thing to do, or it could be a travesty. Guess we won't know until some more info is released.
Basically this, it's hard to say what this means for the overall product that will release. Could be a good thing as you said, or it could be a bad thing. Either way that result remains to be seen at this point.
Can't we at least agree that it's a newsworthy different thing? Or maybe even take just one tiny step further and say that it's less than what was once promoted to be there at release?
The contortions to make this seem at worst neutral are hurting my back just watching them.
I think its newsworthy but I also dont think its a big deal.
Taken out of context? Sure no biggie.
But in the context of much more money raised than expected, many statements made about one of the great things about not being beholden to studios and investors being that no one can impose artificial deadlines on them, many denials of "feature creep" being a problem and previous statements from the gaming press such as this one:
"It's one part massively multiplayer space sim and one part (entirely separate) single-player and co-op story campaign, and its feature list looks like the kind of thing a five-year-old, unfazed by the crushing limitations of reality, would come up with if you asked them to imagine their perfect space game."
And now it seems like a heaping dose of reality has finally managed to insinuate itself into CR's consciousness...
The deal gets a bit bigger in context, don't you think?
It's not like that has come from nowhere and he just one day woke up and made this decision. It seems pretty obvious to me that the push by the public for him to show his hand has finally sunk in.
The idea that Crowdfunding means they have no one to answer to is patently false. You have a worse entity to answer to and that's the public which is prone to knee-jerk reaction.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Anyway, as it appears, 100% of KS games (based on my experience) miss their target date. I actually have a spreadsheet showing, I believe, 70% of games estimated to ship by 2014 were late. Something like that. So, by all accounts, it is how it works.
Spreading more dis-information to support your opinion again I see.
While the number of successfully-funded games is increasing - from 5 in 2009 to 207 in
2012 - the percentage of those games actually finding their way into
people's hands on time and in their full and promised state remains
fairly constant.
I do like how you leave yourself a backdoor with the (based on my experience) comment. You are a sly one indeed. 100% miss their target date... LOL
I have also seen from another report online that only 30% of crowd funded games release. Also your number there end in 2012. So yours need to be taken with a shovel full of salt. Other part of it, I have read about some games releasing when and as promised but the game was so bad it was not worth playing. So again, your numbers cant take that into account.
EDIT: And SC is not a game that falls into released when promised or with the features promised. lol So if we want by how much gamers have spent backing games. SC would bring down the numbers as well.
First off, all statistics and studies should be taken with a gain of salt so I dont understand your point. An avid fan of the game said 100% of the kickstarters for games do not launch on time and I showed evidence that some do, making his 100% figure invalid. What is the point of your 30% number? Does it not also prove that the guy making the 100% fail to launch claim is yet again wrong? Is there a point to your post or are you just confirming mine?
Im saying everyones numbers are crap, unless you're getting your numbers from God. Im saying in your numbers it takes some games as released on time but sucked butt. So do you count that as a positive? Im not poking fun at you. Just the whole of trying to prove crowd funded games are working with statistics. Its not been going long enough for that IMO. At this point its still a fad.
Can't we at least agree that it's a newsworthy different thing? Or maybe even take just one tiny step further and say that it's less than what was once promoted to be there at release?
The contortions to make this seem at worst neutral are hurting my back just watching them.
Personally I don't know/remember what was promised and TBH I don't care what was promised. A space game made by CR with all the usual stuff you would expect is all I ask for.
What I have seem so far is keeping me happy. I understand project management and game development enough to understand why things the way they are.
I have realistic expectations on how a budget shift from 6 million to 112 million can drastically change project scope. I understand sometimes a project doesn't come together (except to everyone hands on to a project) till many different pieces are in place which individually might look like nothing but once all pieces are linked together there is that 'oh right, there it is'.
I don't over react to news but TBH it really annoys me when people fly off the handle posting shit here because it is obvious they read too much into everything.
I am really disgusted by the personal attacks that go on against other posters, CR, staff working on the game and all around behavior that, if done in a room face to face would end entirely different then someone just getting some bars.
I have taken a step back because I realise nothing will ever shut up the detractors or disuade the supporters until the game come out or does not. At this point in time I still on't think paying £25 a few years ago will go to waste. I have spent more on other games that are dead but at least those received far less bad mouthing from the posters here but an equally less lifeline.
I know it will not happen, too many people will lose face because that is the type of person they are, but I just want to stop reading about the game till it comes out. THEN I can judge it.
It grows tiresome trying to communicate about this game to the same level of annoyance I get trying to talk to people of religion...
Remember, Santa is real, so is the boogey man, and you all know exactly what is going on...right up until you find out you didn't.
OK, see you in a few years when the game launches! I recommend trying Black Desert while you wait.
Have Fun!
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
Is there a list somewhere of the things that aren't making it into the release?
Don't have time to watch a 30 minute video.
That has not been announced yet nor is it in the forseeable future until we get a little close to the actual commercial launch, to my knowledge.
Thanks
Well... I guess I can't have much of an opinion on it one way or the other.
It could be the right thing to do, or it could be a travesty. Guess we won't know until some more info is released.
Basically this, it's hard to say what this means for the overall product that will release. Could be a good thing as you said, or it could be a bad thing. Either way that result remains to be seen at this point.
Can't we at least agree that it's a newsworthy different thing? Or maybe even take just one tiny step further and say that it's less than what was once promoted to be there at release?
The contortions to make this seem at worst neutral are hurting my back just watching them.
I think its newsworthy but I also dont think its a big deal.
Taken out of context? Sure no biggie.
But in the context of much more money raised than expected, many statements made about one of the great things about not being beholden to studios and investors being that no one can impose artificial deadlines on them, many denials of "feature creep" being a problem and previous statements from the gaming press such as this one:
"It's one part massively multiplayer space sim and one part (entirely separate) single-player and co-op story campaign, and its feature list looks like the kind of thing a five-year-old, unfazed by the crushing limitations of reality, would come up with if you asked them to imagine their perfect space game."
And now it seems like a heaping dose of reality has finally managed to insinuate itself into CR's consciousness...
The deal gets a bit bigger in context, don't you think?
It's not like that has come from nowhere and he just one day sat about and made this decision. It seems pretty obvious to me that the push by the public for him to show his hand has finally sunk in.
Yup. And considering the individual and the considerable size of his ego, is no small feat.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I fail to see any contradiction. Nowhere in the footage CR says that certain features / stretch goals aren't going to made it into the final product.
What he says is that certain stretch goals will be added after the release.
and is now saying he will be releasing a "less impressive game for the sake of having it out more quickly"and then adding stuff to it later, you dont see the contradiction?
Where in the video does CR say this ?
I watched the footage 3 times and i just can't hear him mention anything even remotely close about stretch goals being cut off the game.
What he very clearly states is that SC 1.0 will release will all systems in place, a fully working "ecosystem" like crafting, pvp, exploration etc and some of the latest goals will be added later.
I have the feeling that not many people bothered to actually watch the video. The important stuff discussed here starts at 23:20.
So you are saying that the missing stretch goals will not make the game MORE impressive? So launching without those goals in place would make the game LESS impressive?
I'm not saying the goals were cut, I dont know why you fans always try and derail every topic with your epic exaggerations. I am saying that Chris himself said he would not be held to "artificial" deadlines in order to release a less impressive game and yet now that is exactly what he is doing. You can argue all day long but releasing early without some of the promised features makes the game less impressive which is the contradiction you have a hard time understanding.
Do you have any insight about which of the latest stretch goals won't make it into the initial release ? If you do then by all means tell us.
The vast majority of the last achieved stretch goals consists of ships, something SC already has in abundance. One is about pets. Another one is about ship interior customization.
Let's wait and see what SC 1.0 will consist of and then you guys can start the apocalypse.
Is there a list somewhere of the things that aren't making it into the release?
Don't have time to watch a 30 minute video.
That has not been announced yet nor is it in the forseeable future until we get a little close to the actual commercial launch, to my knowledge.
Thanks
Well... I guess I can't have much of an opinion on it one way or the other.
It could be the right thing to do, or it could be a travesty. Guess we won't know until some more info is released.
Basically this, it's hard to say what this means for the overall product that will release. Could be a good thing as you said, or it could be a bad thing. Either way that result remains to be seen at this point.
Can't we at least agree that it's a newsworthy different thing? Or maybe even take just one tiny step further and say that it's less than what was once promoted to be there at release?
The contortions to make this seem at worst neutral are hurting my back just watching them.
All I was saying is that there isn't enough information for "me" to formulate any type of meaningful opinion for the topic at hand.
Is it Newsworthy? Sure why not.
As far as the whole project goes....
My opinion on the project as a whole is that it's a giant cluster fuck. It's also my opinion that when you receive money too easily, you tend not to spend it as effectively and as wisely as you could or should.
My opinion on the project as a whole is that it's a giant cluster fuck. It's also my opinion that when you receive money too easily, you tend not to spend it as effectively and as wisely as you could or should.
Indeed. It would actually take almost superhuman self-discipline to stay on course under those circumstances.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Is there a list somewhere of the things that aren't making it into the release?
Don't have time to watch a 30 minute video.
That has not been announced yet nor is it in the forseeable future until we get a little close to the actual commercial launch, to my knowledge.
Thanks
Well... I guess I can't have much of an opinion on it one way or the other.
It could be the right thing to do, or it could be a travesty. Guess we won't know until some more info is released.
Basically this, it's hard to say what this means for the overall product that will release. Could be a good thing as you said, or it could be a bad thing. Either way that result remains to be seen at this point.
Can't we at least agree that it's a newsworthy different thing? Or maybe even take just one tiny step further and say that it's less than what was once promoted to be there at release?
The contortions to make this seem at worst neutral are hurting my back just watching them.
I think its newsworthy but I also dont think its a big deal.
Taken out of context? Sure no biggie.
But in the context of much more money raised than expected, many statements made about one of the great things about not being beholden to studios and investors being that no one can impose artificial deadlines on them, many denials of "feature creep" being a problem and previous statements from the gaming press such as this one:
"It's one part massively multiplayer space sim and one part (entirely separate) single-player and co-op story campaign, and its feature list looks like the kind of thing a five-year-old, unfazed by the crushing limitations of reality, would come up with if you asked them to imagine their perfect space game."
And now it seems like a heaping dose of reality has finally managed to insinuate itself into CR's consciousness...
The deal gets a bit bigger in context, don't you think?
I think for the people backing the game its a big deal but when taken into context of MMOs its not. Its common for features to be dropped, changed and pushed back to after release. Its a common part of MMO business. I do get why some would be upset but I think the bigger part of people bitching about it are not the backers but the haters.
My opinion on the project as a whole is that it's a giant cluster fuck. It's also my opinion that when you receive money too easily, you tend not to spend it as effectively and as wisely as you could or should.
Indeed. It would actually take almost superhuman self-discipline to stay on course under those circumstances.
Or an education in financial management.
I'm sorry; I was getting my MBA in International Business right as the Star Citizen crowdfunding campaign was really starting to rev through its gears, and no-one wanted to hear my 'guys, this is crazy' talk or 'they really aren't being as transparent as they should' admonishments.
I'll write what I stated back then: time will tell.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Is there a list somewhere of the things that aren't making it into the release?
Don't have time to watch a 30 minute video.
That has not been announced yet nor is it in the forseeable future until we get a little close to the actual commercial launch, to my knowledge.
Thanks
Well... I guess I can't have much of an opinion on it one way or the other.
It could be the right thing to do, or it could be a travesty. Guess we won't know until some more info is released.
Basically this, it's hard to say what this means for the overall product that will release. Could be a good thing as you said, or it could be a bad thing. Either way that result remains to be seen at this point.
Can't we at least agree that it's a newsworthy different thing? Or maybe even take just one tiny step further and say that it's less than what was once promoted to be there at release?
The contortions to make this seem at worst neutral are hurting my back just watching them.
I think its newsworthy but I also dont think its a big deal.
Taken out of context? Sure no biggie.
But in the context of much more money raised than expected, many statements made about one of the great things about not being beholden to studios and investors being that no one can impose artificial deadlines on them, many denials of "feature creep" being a problem and previous statements from the gaming press such as this one:
"It's one part massively multiplayer space sim and one part (entirely separate) single-player and co-op story campaign, and its feature list looks like the kind of thing a five-year-old, unfazed by the crushing limitations of reality, would come up with if you asked them to imagine their perfect space game."
And now it seems like a heaping dose of reality has finally managed to insinuate itself into CR's consciousness...
The deal gets a bit bigger in context, don't you think?
I think for the people backing the game its a big deal but when taken into context of MMOs its not. Its common for features to be dropped, changed and pushed back to after release. Its a common part of MMO business. I do get why some would be upset but I think the bigger part of people bitching about it are not the backers but the haters.
Nah. You're oversimplifying it to cast it in the light of white knights vs. haters.
It's a case of a megalomaniac stepping out of his echo chamber to admit that what the whole outside world has been saying about his feature list was right after all.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
The amount of denial from the people who support this game and company is astounding.
i normally avoid the star citizen threads on this site like the plague.i have given money to this project having said that i wouldn't dare hesitate to say at this point if any backer of star citizen thinks this is how crowdfunding is supposed to work and everything is right as rain with how this project has been managed they are simply only seeing what they want to see at this point!
I lost track of how many times something was said or done by CIG and everyone is like "kool" or "that's awesome" and i'm over here like "have you lost your damn mind"
I don't think that the backers are claiming that everything is right as rain. What I do think is that SC has become isolated and critiqued and hyper-analyzed in a vacuum. I don't think this is how crowdfunding is supposed to work, but you can't say it isn't a reality of crowdfunding. I'm by no means a crowdfunding expert. I've probably backed 10 or 11 projects in total. SC is one of them.
I have backed 8 projects on Kickstarter. Of those 8 projects, 3 projects aren't past their deadline yet. 1 project actually shipped and 4 are in various states of release (alpha, etc), but past their due dates. Shoot! HEX: Shards of fate had an estimated delivery date of 2013 and you don't hear anything about it..... *crickets* and it's a freakin' TCG!
Anyway, as it appears, 100% of KS games (based on my experience) miss their target date. I actually have a spreadsheet showing, I believe, 70% of games estimated to ship by 2014 were late. Something like that. So, by all accounts, it is how it works.
If someone feels like actually putting some effort into a logical, intelligent argument then why not try to find a metric comparing progress of games in relation to Star Citizen? Something like that. Unfortunately there aren't apples-to-apples arguments made when talking about Star Citizen, it boils down to "You're Wrong!!", "No you are!!", "No you are <insert funny Internet meme>"
Sorry, but it's pathetic.
It's ALL about the amount of money he asked for, the ridiculous amount he's gotten and the fact that he wasn't able to create a playable game yet and is unlikely to meet even the initial goals.
That's quite a leap to make, if you mean meeting the original 6 million dollar game.
You know! Good dev teams start from the scratch ! Yes, they should have made the 6 mil dollar "game" ( alpha in like 2 years - from 2012 to 2014 ) and then carry on and add features *as time goes by.
* In a decent manner, not after 4 years and they still have an early early early alpha.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Is there a list somewhere of the things that aren't making it into the release?
Don't have time to watch a 30 minute video.
That has not been announced yet nor is it in the forseeable future until we get a little close to the actual commercial launch, to my knowledge.
Thanks
Well... I guess I can't have much of an opinion on it one way or the other.
It could be the right thing to do, or it could be a travesty. Guess we won't know until some more info is released.
Basically this, it's hard to say what this means for the overall product that will release. Could be a good thing as you said, or it could be a bad thing. Either way that result remains to be seen at this point.
Can't we at least agree that it's a newsworthy different thing? Or maybe even take just one tiny step further and say that it's less than what was once promoted to be there at release?
The contortions to make this seem at worst neutral are hurting my back just watching them.
I think its newsworthy but I also dont think its a big deal.
Taken out of context? Sure no biggie.
But in the context of much more money raised than expected, many statements made about one of the great things about not being beholden to studios and investors being that no one can impose artificial deadlines on them, many denials of "feature creep" being a problem and previous statements from the gaming press such as this one:
"It's one part massively multiplayer space sim and one part (entirely separate) single-player and co-op story campaign, and its feature list looks like the kind of thing a five-year-old, unfazed by the crushing limitations of reality, would come up with if you asked them to imagine their perfect space game."
And now it seems like a heaping dose of reality has finally managed to insinuate itself into CR's consciousness...
The deal gets a bit bigger in context, don't you think?
I think for the people backing the game its a big deal but when taken into context of MMOs its not. Its common for features to be dropped, changed and pushed back to after release. Its a common part of MMO business. I do get why some would be upset but I think the bigger part of people bitching about it are not the backers but the haters.
Nah. You're oversimplifying it to cast it in the light of white knights vs. haters.
It's a case of a megalomaniac stepping out of his echo chamber to admit that what the whole outside world has been saying about his feature list was right after all.
But the same can be said for many MMOs that are released and doing well today. Im not defending the game. I think crowd funding for the most part is a pile of crap. I have yet to see a game I would fund when you look at everything involved. Megalomaniac aside, this small bit of news is a common blip on most MMOs radar. That being said I think the megalomaniacs have a list of problems that are very valid.
Is there a list somewhere of the things that aren't making it into the release?
Don't have time to watch a 30 minute video.
That has not been announced yet nor is it in the forseeable future until we get a little close to the actual commercial launch, to my knowledge.
Thanks
Well... I guess I can't have much of an opinion on it one way or the other.
It could be the right thing to do, or it could be a travesty. Guess we won't know until some more info is released.
Basically this, it's hard to say what this means for the overall product that will release. Could be a good thing as you said, or it could be a bad thing. Either way that result remains to be seen at this point.
Can't we at least agree that it's a newsworthy different thing? Or maybe even take just one tiny step further and say that it's less than what was once promoted to be there at release?
The contortions to make this seem at worst neutral are hurting my back just watching them.
I think its newsworthy but I also dont think its a big deal.
Taken out of context? Sure no biggie.
But in the context of much more money raised than expected, many statements made about one of the great things about not being beholden to studios and investors being that no one can impose artificial deadlines on them, many denials of "feature creep" being a problem and previous statements from the gaming press such as this one:
"It's one part massively multiplayer space sim and one part (entirely separate) single-player and co-op story campaign, and its feature list looks like the kind of thing a five-year-old, unfazed by the crushing limitations of reality, would come up with if you asked them to imagine their perfect space game."
And now it seems like a heaping dose of reality has finally managed to insinuate itself into CR's consciousness...
The deal gets a bit bigger in context, don't you think?
I think for the people backing the game its a big deal but when taken into context of MMOs its not. Its common for features to be dropped, changed and pushed back to after release. Its a common part of MMO business. I do get why some would be upset but I think the bigger part of people bitching about it are not the backers but the haters.
Nah. You're oversimplifying it to cast it in the light of white knights vs. haters.
It's a case of a megalomaniac stepping out of his echo chamber to admit that what the whole outside world has been saying about his feature list was right after all.
That's a rather oversimplified comment as well. As it's hard to say how this would have went down with more public support, and less of a presence like we've seen for months/years now in regard to this project.. Nan seems correct in that statement to me, as most of this demand for a release has seemingly come from the non-backing public. Which isn't exactly fair to those who did back this project, it's their money what they want should be the most important factor in all of this.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The amount of denial from the people who support this game and company is astounding.
i normally avoid the star citizen threads on this site like the plague.i have given money to this project having said that i wouldn't dare hesitate to say at this point if any backer of star citizen thinks this is how crowdfunding is supposed to work and everything is right as rain with how this project has been managed they are simply only seeing what they want to see at this point!
I lost track of how many times something was said or done by CIG and everyone is like "kool" or "that's awesome" and i'm over here like "have you lost your damn mind"
I don't think that the backers are claiming that everything is right as rain. What I do think is that SC has become isolated and critiqued and hyper-analyzed in a vacuum. I don't think this is how crowdfunding is supposed to work, but you can't say it isn't a reality of crowdfunding. I'm by no means a crowdfunding expert. I've probably backed 10 or 11 projects in total. SC is one of them.
I have backed 8 projects on Kickstarter. Of those 8 projects, 3 projects aren't past their deadline yet. 1 project actually shipped and 4 are in various states of release (alpha, etc), but past their due dates. Shoot! HEX: Shards of fate had an estimated delivery date of 2013 and you don't hear anything about it..... *crickets* and it's a freakin' TCG!
Anyway, as it appears, 100% of KS games (based on my experience) miss their target date. I actually have a spreadsheet showing, I believe, 70% of games estimated to ship by 2014 were late. Something like that. So, by all accounts, it is how it works.
If someone feels like actually putting some effort into a logical, intelligent argument then why not try to find a metric comparing progress of games in relation to Star Citizen? Something like that. Unfortunately there aren't apples-to-apples arguments made when talking about Star Citizen, it boils down to "You're Wrong!!", "No you are!!", "No you are <insert funny Internet meme>"
Sorry, but it's pathetic.
It's ALL about the amount of money he asked for, the ridiculous amount he's gotten and the fact that he wasn't able to create a playable game yet and is unlikely to meet even the initial goals.
That's quite a leap to make, if you mean meeting the original 6 million dollar game.
You know! Good dev teams start from the scratch ! Yes, they should have made the 6 mil dollar "game" ( alpha in like 2 years - from 2012 to 2014 ) and then carry on and add features *as time goes by.
* In a decent manner, not after 4 years and they still have an early early early alpha.
I don't disagree as that sounds like the logical approach.... Yet that part of this mess I really don't know a whole lot about, as you have one side saying the backers voted on that and another saying what you just did, I don't know where the truth in that lay. IF the backers did in fact want that bigger more fleshed out product, that's what they should get.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Is there a list somewhere of the things that aren't making it into the release?
Don't have time to watch a 30 minute video.
That has not been announced yet nor is it in the forseeable future until we get a little close to the actual commercial launch, to my knowledge.
Thanks
Well... I guess I can't have much of an opinion on it one way or the other.
It could be the right thing to do, or it could be a travesty. Guess we won't know until some more info is released.
Basically this, it's hard to say what this means for the overall product that will release. Could be a good thing as you said, or it could be a bad thing. Either way that result remains to be seen at this point.
Can't we at least agree that it's a newsworthy different thing? Or maybe even take just one tiny step further and say that it's less than what was once promoted to be there at release?
The contortions to make this seem at worst neutral are hurting my back just watching them.
I think its newsworthy but I also dont think its a big deal.
Taken out of context? Sure no biggie.
But in the context of much more money raised than expected, many statements made about one of the great things about not being beholden to studios and investors being that no one can impose artificial deadlines on them, many denials of "feature creep" being a problem and previous statements from the gaming press such as this one:
"It's one part massively multiplayer space sim and one part (entirely separate) single-player and co-op story campaign, and its feature list looks like the kind of thing a five-year-old, unfazed by the crushing limitations of reality, would come up with if you asked them to imagine their perfect space game."
And now it seems like a heaping dose of reality has finally managed to insinuate itself into CR's consciousness...
The deal gets a bit bigger in context, don't you think?
I think for the people backing the game its a big deal but when taken into context of MMOs its not. Its common for features to be dropped, changed and pushed back to after release. Its a common part of MMO business. I do get why some would be upset but I think the bigger part of people bitching about it are not the backers but the haters.
Nah. You're oversimplifying it to cast it in the light of white knights vs. haters.
It's a case of a megalomaniac stepping out of his echo chamber to admit that what the whole outside world has been saying about his feature list was right after all.
That's a rather oversimplified comment as well. As it's hard to say how this would have went down with more public support, and less of a presence like we've seen for months/years now in regard to this project.. Nan seems correct in that statement to me, as most of this demand for a release has seemingly come from the non-backing public. Which isn't exactly fair to those who did back this project, it's their money what they want should be the most important factor in all of this.
You're assuming CR's motivation for swallowing his pride and scaling back expectations is coming from external sources. Do you know that this isn't motivated by internal factors such as projected revenue and expenses? Isn't that usually the case when companies scale back?
We don't know why he's softening expectations now but I seriously doubt it has much to do with DS and his campaign. The one thing we do know is that he's softening those expectations and that this is not surprising to those not caught-up in the promotion and spin. But to say essentially that skeptics are making him do it is quite a leap in logic.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
You're assuming CR's motivation for swallowing his pride and scaling back expectations is coming from external sources. Do you know that this isn't motivated by internal factors such as projected revenue and expenses? Isn't that usually the case when companies scale back?
We don't know why he's softening expectations now but I seriously doubt it has much to do with DS and his campaign. The one thing we do know is that he's softening those expectations and that this is not surprising to those not caught-up in the promotion and spin. But to say essentially that skeptics are making him do it is quite a leap in logic.
Well now we're just moving backward, you seemingly agreed with that point a few posts back :P.
It's not like that has come from nowhere and he just one day sat about and made this decision. It seems pretty obvious to me that the push by the public for him to show his hand has finally sunk in.
"Yup. And considering the individual and the considerable size of his ego, is no small feat."
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The amount of denial from the people who support this game and company is astounding.
i normally avoid the star citizen threads on this site like the plague.i have given money to this project having said that i wouldn't dare hesitate to say at this point if any backer of star citizen thinks this is how crowdfunding is supposed to work and everything is right as rain with how this project has been managed they are simply only seeing what they want to see at this point!
I lost track of how many times something was said or done by CIG and everyone is like "kool" or "that's awesome" and i'm over here like "have you lost your damn mind"
I don't think that the backers are claiming that everything is right as rain. What I do think is that SC has become isolated and critiqued and hyper-analyzed in a vacuum. I don't think this is how crowdfunding is supposed to work, but you can't say it isn't a reality of crowdfunding. I'm by no means a crowdfunding expert. I've probably backed 10 or 11 projects in total. SC is one of them.
I have backed 8 projects on Kickstarter. Of those 8 projects, 3 projects aren't past their deadline yet. 1 project actually shipped and 4 are in various states of release (alpha, etc), but past their due dates. Shoot! HEX: Shards of fate had an estimated delivery date of 2013 and you don't hear anything about it..... *crickets* and it's a freakin' TCG!
Anyway, as it appears, 100% of KS games (based on my experience) miss their target date. I actually have a spreadsheet showing, I believe, 70% of games estimated to ship by 2014 were late. Something like that. So, by all accounts, it is how it works.
If someone feels like actually putting some effort into a logical, intelligent argument then why not try to find a metric comparing progress of games in relation to Star Citizen? Something like that. Unfortunately there aren't apples-to-apples arguments made when talking about Star Citizen, it boils down to "You're Wrong!!", "No you are!!", "No you are <insert funny Internet meme>"
Sorry, but it's pathetic.
It's ALL about the amount of money he asked for, the ridiculous amount he's gotten and the fact that he wasn't able to create a playable game yet and is unlikely to meet even the initial goals.
That's quite a leap to make, if you mean meeting the original 6 million dollar game.
You know! Good dev teams start from the scratch ! Yes, they should have made the 6 mil dollar "game" ( alpha in like 2 years - from 2012 to 2014 ) and then carry on and add features *as time goes by.
* In a decent manner, not after 4 years and they still have an early early early alpha.
I don't disagree as that sounds like the logical approach.... Yet that part of this mess I really don't know a whole lot about, as you have one side saying the backers voted on that and another saying what you just did, I don't know where the truth in that lay. IF the backers did in fact want that bigger more fleshed out product, that's what they should get.
Fair enough !
PS: I am not against SC as a game! I am against what's behind the game ( CR specially ) . I would like to know some data as to how much their earned in the first year, if they changed the engine , and concept as a whole. IF they kept the engine from 2012 , concept from 2012, and they are in this situation, then that is very poor management. And I don't trust poor management. More so, poor management with a budget of 100+ mil , that's even worst!
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
You're assuming CR's motivation for swallowing his pride and scaling back expectations is coming from external sources. Do you know that this isn't motivated by internal factors such as projected revenue and expenses? Isn't that usually the case when companies scale back?
We don't know why he's softening expectations now but I seriously doubt it has much to do with DS and his campaign. The one thing we do know is that he's softening those expectations and that this is not surprising to those not caught-up in the promotion and spin. But to say essentially that skeptics are making him do it is quite a leap in logic.
Well now we're just moving backward, you seemingly agreed with that point a few posts back :P.
It's not like that has come from nowhere and he just one day sat about and made this decision. It seems pretty obvious to me that the push by the public for him to show his hand has finally sunk in.
"Yup. And considering the individual and the considerable size of his ego, is no small feat."
My mistake. I was focused on the "finally sunk in" part and my reply was all about an egomaniac facing reality. I didn't realize that your theory is that the non-backing public made him do it.
Internal factors that neither you nor I are privy to are the more likely things that made him do it: things like feature bloat, problems with Cryengine limitations, burn rate of cash on hand and revenue projections... the usual things.
So the unfairness to backers because the evil detractors made him do it? Nope. Not even close to agreeing with you on that one.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
I'm not saying the goals were cut, I dont know why you fans always try and derail every topic with your epic exaggerations. I am saying that Chris himself said he would not be held to "artificial" deadlines in order to release a less impressive game and yet now that is exactly what he is doing. You can argue all day long but releasing early without some of the promised features makes the game less impressive which is the contradiction you have a hard time understanding.
That's quite a leap to make, if you mean meeting the original 6 million dollar game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
But in the context of much more money raised than expected, many statements made about one of the great things about not being beholden to studios and investors being that no one can impose artificial deadlines on them, many denials of "feature creep" being a problem and previous statements from the gaming press such as this one:
"It's one part massively multiplayer space sim and one part (entirely separate) single-player and co-op story campaign, and its feature list looks like the kind of thing a five-year-old, unfazed by the crushing limitations of reality, would come up with if you asked them to imagine their perfect space game."
And now it seems like a heaping dose of reality has finally managed to insinuate itself into CR's consciousness...
The deal gets a bit bigger in context, don't you think?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
What I have seem so far is keeping me happy. I understand project management and game development enough to understand why things the way they are.
I have realistic expectations on how a budget shift from 6 million to 112 million can drastically change project scope. I understand sometimes a project doesn't come together (except to everyone hands on to a project) till many different pieces are in place which individually might look like nothing but once all pieces are linked together there is that 'oh right, there it is'.
I don't over react to news but TBH it really annoys me when people fly off the handle posting shit here because it is obvious they read too much into everything.
I am really disgusted by the personal attacks that go on against other posters, CR, staff working on the game and all around behavior that, if done in a room face to face would end entirely different then someone just getting some bars.
I have taken a step back because I realise nothing will ever shut up the detractors or disuade the supporters until the game come out or does not. At this point in time I still on't think paying £25 a few years ago will go to waste. I have spent more on other games that are dead but at least those received far less bad mouthing from the posters here but an equally less lifeline.
I know it will not happen, too many people will lose face because that is the type of person they are, but I just want to stop reading about the game till it comes out. THEN I can judge it.
It grows tiresome trying to communicate about this game to the same level of annoyance I get trying to talk to people of religion...
Remember, Santa is real, so is the boogey man, and you all know exactly what is going on...right up until you find out you didn't.
The idea that Crowdfunding means they have no one to answer to is patently false. You have a worse entity to answer to and that's the public which is prone to knee-jerk reaction.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Have Fun!
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The vast majority of the last achieved stretch goals consists of ships, something SC already has in abundance. One is about pets. Another one is about ship interior customization.
Let's wait and see what SC 1.0 will consist of and then you guys can start the apocalypse.
Is it Newsworthy? Sure why not.
As far as the whole project goes....
My opinion on the project as a whole is that it's a giant cluster fuck. It's also my opinion that when you receive money too easily, you tend not to spend it as effectively and as wisely as you could or should.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I'm sorry; I was getting my MBA in International Business right as the Star Citizen crowdfunding campaign was really starting to rev through its gears, and no-one wanted to hear my 'guys, this is crazy' talk or 'they really aren't being as transparent as they should' admonishments.
I'll write what I stated back then: time will tell.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
It's a case of a megalomaniac stepping out of his echo chamber to admit that what the whole outside world has been saying about his feature list was right after all.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
* In a decent manner, not after 4 years and they still have an early early early alpha.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
We don't know why he's softening expectations now but I seriously doubt it has much to do with DS and his campaign. The one thing we do know is that he's softening those expectations and that this is not surprising to those not caught-up in the promotion and spin. But to say essentially that skeptics are making him do it is quite a leap in logic.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Sad really.
"Yup. And considering the individual and the considerable size of his ego, is no small feat."
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
PS: I am not against SC as a game! I am against what's behind the game ( CR specially ) . I would like to know some data as to how much their earned in the first year, if they changed the engine , and concept as a whole. IF they kept the engine from 2012 , concept from 2012, and they are in this situation, then that is very poor management. And I don't trust poor management. More so, poor management with a budget of 100+ mil , that's even worst!
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Internal factors that neither you nor I are privy to are the more likely things that made him do it: things like feature bloat, problems with Cryengine limitations, burn rate of cash on hand and revenue projections... the usual things.
So the unfairness to backers because the evil detractors made him do it? Nope. Not even close to agreeing with you on that one.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED