Hmm... first the employee's piece about how the game is hemorrhaging money with multiple studios and unfocused development. Then the news about how they split the game into two boxes. Now this one about how it will be released bare bones and worked out later.
Bit a trend there in the news regarding the title. One could actually end up thinking the title is desperately trying to get more money before the studio making it breaks despite it's huge funding.
There is no list yet of what features will come at launch and what
features will come a bit later. Chris Roberts mentioned in 10ftC-E83 that some of the
later stretch goals will be added after launch. That is no surprise to backers that keep up-to-date on SC related information. It
has been announced earlier that late stretch goals like the big
science ship "Endeavor" or the big "Starliner" passenger ship will not
be there on launch day but will be added soon after that date, as CIG wants to concentrate on the core elements of the game first before they give you the ability to grow "space weed" under the burning Tannhäuser Gate of Orion on an agroponic module of an "Endeavor".
There is no list yet of what features will come at launch and what
features will come a bit later. Chris Roberts mentioned in 10ftC-E83 that some of the
later stretch goals will be added after launch. That is no surprise to backers that keep up-to-date on SC related information. It
has been announced earlier that late stretch goals like the big
science ship "Endeavor" or the big "Starliner" passenger ship will not
be there on launch day but will be added soon after that date, as CIG wants to concentrate on the core elements of the game first before they give you the ability to grow "space weed" under the burning Tannhäuser Gate of Orion on an agroponic module of an "Endeavor".
Have fun
Are you sure? Because that Derek Smart guy seems convinced the project is FUBAR, and we all know how honest and forthright he is .... not to mention reliable.
Chris Roberts, on the other hand, has been a model of honesty, forthrightness, and, above all, reliability. Right?
There is no list yet of what features will come at launch and what
features will come a bit later. Chris Roberts mentioned in 10ftC-E83 that some of the
later stretch goals will be added after launch. That is no surprise to backers that keep up-to-date on SC related information. It
has been announced earlier that late stretch goals like the big
science ship "Endeavor" or the big "Starliner" passenger ship will not
be there on launch day but will be added soon after that date, as CIG wants to concentrate on the core elements of the game first before they give you the ability to grow "space weed" under the burning Tannhäuser Gate of Orion on an agroponic module of an "Endeavor".
Have fun
Are you sure? Because that Derek Smart guy seems convinced the project is FUBAR, and we all know how honest and forthright he is .... not to mention reliable.
Chris Roberts, on the other hand, has been a model of honesty, forthrightness, and, above all, reliability. Right?
Which is why you don't take the word of either person, especially since they're far from being objective, and read tween the lines and split it down the middle to get a more realistic view of what is probably going to happen.
It's neither rainbows and unicorns nor DOOOoooOOooOOm the sky is falling.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
There is no list yet of what features will come at launch and what
features will come a bit later. Chris Roberts mentioned in 10ftC-E83 that some of the
later stretch goals will be added after launch. That is no surprise to backers that keep up-to-date on SC related information. It
has been announced earlier that late stretch goals like the big
science ship "Endeavor" or the big "Starliner" passenger ship will not
be there on launch day but will be added soon after that date, as CIG wants to concentrate on the core elements of the game first before they give you the ability to grow "space weed" under the burning Tannhäuser Gate of Orion on an agroponic module of an "Endeavor".
Have fun
Are you sure? Because that Derek Smart guy seems convinced the project is FUBAR, and we all know how honest and forthright he is .... not to mention reliable.
Chris Roberts, on the other hand, has been a model of honesty, forthrightness, and, above all, reliability. Right?
Which is why you don't take the word of either person, especially since they're far from being objective, and read tween the lines and split it down the middle to get a more realistic view of what is probably going to happen.
It's neither rainbows and unicorns nor DOOOoooOOooOOm the sky is falling.
I agree completely. That's why I haven't backed yet. I also don't follow Derek Smart.
What he is saying really isn't that different from what a lot of people were thinking. Including myself. The difference is that he has a much larger platform (and ego) than a lot of people. Including myself.
I've always thought that this was eventually going to be what happened. Same thing happened with Freelancer, which happened to start with almost the exact same dream feature list. There is no publisher this time though. That's the ultimate reason I stayed back. Without Microsoft, no Freelancer. Without Microsoft or some other golden parachute, ??? Star Citizen. Freelancer was also a mish mash of partially realized, redone, and completely unrealized systems when the curtain was dropped on it. When Microsoft finally raised the curtain again it was a good, maybe even great, game, but missing many of the "groundbreaking" features that were touted. Trend analysis.
The question now becomes whether or not they have, or can obtain, the funding to carry forth with this new(ish) roadmap. I think by this time they've pretty much maximized their presentation to the core audience. Other than any gains brought in if/when they release on Steam, I don't see them reaching much more market at this point. Particularly if this minimum viable product is not a strong contender in a now crowded space. Even releasing on Steam won't help much and may be project suicide if it isn't.
There is no list yet of what features will come at launch and what
features will come a bit later. Chris Roberts mentioned in 10ftC-E83 that some of the
later stretch goals will be added after launch. That is no surprise to backers that keep up-to-date on SC related information. It
has been announced earlier that late stretch goals like the big
science ship "Endeavor" or the big "Starliner" passenger ship will not
be there on launch day but will be added soon after that date, as CIG wants to concentrate on the core elements of the game first before they give you the ability to grow "space weed" under the burning Tannhäuser Gate of Orion on an agroponic module of an "Endeavor".
Have fun
Are you sure? Because that Derek Smart guy seems convinced the project is FUBAR, and we all know how honest and forthright he is .... not to mention reliable.
Chris Roberts, on the other hand, has been a model of honesty, forthrightness, and, above all, reliability. Right?
Which is why you don't take the word of either person, especially since they're far from being objective, and read tween the lines and split it down the middle to get a more realistic view of what is probably going to happen.
It's neither rainbows and unicorns nor DOOOoooOOooOOm the sky is falling.
I agree completely. That's why I haven't backed yet. I also don't follow Derek Smart.
What he is saying really isn't that different from what a lot of people were thinking. Including myself. The difference is that he has a much larger platform (and ego) than a lot of people. Including myself.
I've always thought that this was eventually going to be what happened. Same thing happened with Freelancer, which happened to start with almost the exact same dream feature list. There is no publisher this time though. That's the ultimate reason I stayed back. Without Microsoft, no Freelancer. Without Microsoft or some other golden parachute, ??? Star Citizen. Freelancer was also a mish mash of partially realized, redone, and completely unrealized systems when the curtain was dropped on it. When Microsoft finally raised the curtain again it was a good, maybe even great, game, but missing many of the "groundbreaking" features that were touted. Trend analysis.
The question now becomes whether or not they have, or can obtain, the funding to carry forth with this new(ish) roadmap. I think by this time they've pretty much maximized their presentation to the core audience. Other than any gains brought in if/when they release on Steam, I don't see them reaching much more market at this point. Particularly if this minimum viable product is not a strong contender in a now crowded space. Even releasing on Steam won't help much and may be project suicide if it isn't.
Could be, personally I think right now there's only two viable space sim options.... ED and SC the rest are not what I am looking for.
Games like NMS look fun but also don't look very sim like to me and seem more consoley and the artwork is a little too psychedelic for my tastes. There might be a few more in the works but I think they are even farther off if they even see the light of day.
In the end I think they have pretty huge following regardless of all the drama surrounding the game and many of these people are able and willing to drop a hefty dime on the game... Hell you should see the simpits some people are building based around SC and ED... mind boggling the amount of cash they are putting in this.
I am pretty sure if they can get a half decent core game going they will be able to keep getting funds and keep adding to the game.
Can't be any worse than ED and the half baked updates they have been doing for almost full game purchase.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
No the original critics have been proven 100% right. All the other stuff that has come after, the rampant speculation and conspiracy theories are really irrelevant.
People can spin it and play semantics all they want.
But the two most important things the critics said in the beginning (well 3 actually) were:
1)Technology doesnt exist to make what they claim possible. That one has been semi proven
2)They dont have enough money to make a game like that (even if it were possible) Proven beyond a shadow of a doubt despite making MUCH more money than they could have ever dreamed of.
3) Cant make an MMO do what they claim they can. This might seem like the same as the technology point but it isnt. Because they couldnt have made what they claimed they could on ANY system that actually exists let alone one they have to 'invent'. Again, proven beyond any doubt.
All the other debates and arguments and crap that has been raised over the past 4 or 5 years doesnt matter. These three things were the crux of all of those arguments and they have now been admitted (without admitting) to be 100% true.
I know the white knights will scream 'yeah but we will get them eventually'. I would say that 50% of all the stretch goal stuff (excluding ships) will never ever be implemented. Probably even more than that.
Could be, personally I think right now there's only two viable space sim options.... ED and SC the rest are not what I am looking for.
Games like NMS look fun but also don't look very sim like to me and seem more consoley and the artwork is a little too psychedelic for my tastes. There might be a few more in the works but I think they are even farther off if they even see the light of day.
In the end I think they have pretty huge following regardless of all the drama surrounding the game and many of these people are able and willing to drop a hefty dime on the game... Hell you should see the simpits some people are building based around SC and ED... mind boggling the amount of cash they are putting in this.
I am pretty sure if they can get a half decent core game going they will be able to keep getting funds and keep adding to the game.
Can't be any worse than ED and the half baked updates they have been doing for almost full game purchase.
I do think their best bet on more funds is likely the pre-existing market they've already tapped. Some will maintain hope regardless. Some will have the investment double down thing going. Some will be happy with what there is. Some will inevitably be upset and fall out though. Or hold tight. Depending on what comes out, new blood may be hard to come by.
If you're looking for a space sim and haven't yet, check out Evochrom Mercenary or now Evochron Legacy. Relatively unknown, but surprisingly good for the money. Especially if you like blue over orange/red or grey...
There is no list yet of what features will come at launch and what
features will come a bit later. Chris Roberts mentioned in 10ftC-E83 that some of the
later stretch goals will be added after launch. That is no surprise to backers that keep up-to-date on SC related information. It
has been announced earlier that late stretch goals like the big
science ship "Endeavor" or the big "Starliner" passenger ship will not
be there on launch day but will be added soon after that date, as CIG wants to concentrate on the core elements of the game first before they give you the ability to grow "space weed" under the burning Tannhäuser Gate of Orion on an agroponic module of an "Endeavor".
Have fun
True but also not true. You see the thing is, if you are not emphatic about what will and won't be a post release feature then at best you leave yourself open to misinterpretation, at worst you appear to be misleading.
SC's subreddit is digging up old CR quotes from 2012 as proof that features will be added post release but just because he said something then it does not mean things don't change between then and now. The point is to be clear, to inform your backers, clarify repeatedly, emphatically what the on-going process will be, that stretch goals / new features will be post-release only etc, ie remove all doubt from the equation.
You're saying that if you follow everything about SC then you'd be clued in, a person shouldn't have to do that, a newcomer shouldn't have to watch all the videos and read all the newsletters. If MVP has been on the table for a while then it is CIG's job to get that message accross, not the customers.
Could be, personally I think right now there's only two viable space sim options.... ED and SC the rest are not what I am looking for.
Games like NMS look fun but also don't look very sim like to me and seem more consoley and the artwork is a little too psychedelic for my tastes. There might be a few more in the works but I think they are even farther off if they even see the light of day.
In the end I think they have pretty huge following regardless of all the drama surrounding the game and many of these people are able and willing to drop a hefty dime on the game... Hell you should see the simpits some people are building based around SC and ED... mind boggling the amount of cash they are putting in this.
I am pretty sure if they can get a half decent core game going they will be able to keep getting funds and keep adding to the game.
Can't be any worse than ED and the half baked updates they have been doing for almost full game purchase.
I do think their best bet on more funds is likely the pre-existing market they've already tapped. Some will maintain hope regardless. Some will have the investment double down thing going. Some will be happy with what there is. Some will inevitably be upset and fall out though. Or hold tight. Depending on what comes out, new blood may be hard to come by.
If you're looking for a space sim and haven't yet, check out Evochrom Mercenary or now Evochron Legacy. Relatively unknown, but surprisingly good for the money. Especially if you like blue over orange/red or grey...
Yeah that's what I meant I think they feel with the following they have now they can keep getting funding, I myself fall in the category that I gave them some money for a under 100$ alpha legacy package way back when, mostly to help them along but I'm not interested in putting much more in the game than that and only because I would like to see decent space games make a comeback.
Going to look into Evo Legacy, been keeping an eye on it, but not right now...too busy playing co op Divinity original sin EE with my wife for the time being with solo romps in ED though ED is becoming quite boring atm.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
No the original critics have been proven 100% right. All the other stuff that has come after, the rampant speculation and conspiracy theories are really irrelevant.
People can spin it and play semantics all they want.
But the two most important things the critics said in the beginning (well 3 actually) were:
1)Technology doesnt exist to make what they claim possible. That one has been semi proven
2)They dont have enough money to make a game like that (even if it were possible) Proven beyond a shadow of a doubt despite making MUCH more money than they could have ever dreamed of.
3) Cant make an MMO do what they claim they can. This might seem like the same as the technology point but it isnt. Because they couldnt have made what they claimed they could on ANY system that actually exists let alone one they have to 'invent'. Again, proven beyond any doubt.
All the other debates and arguments and crap that has been raised over the past 4 or 5 years doesnt matter. These three things were the crux of all of those arguments and they have now been admitted (without admitting) to be 100% true.
I know the white knights will scream 'yeah but we will get them eventually'. I would say that 50% of all the stretch goal stuff (excluding ships) will never ever be implemented. Probably even more than that.
Can you be a bit more precise in regard to what exactly can't be done? That's kind of a distance you're jumping to make such a conclusion based on some rather vague statements from CR. Because I'd expect the "minimal viable product" here is still going to carry some lofty expectations. If it's not breaking into some new ground the very notion of SC is lost IMO.
Post edited by Distopia on
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
True but also not true. You see the thing is, if you are not emphatic about what will and won't be a post release feature then at best you leave yourself open to misinterpretation, at worst you appear to be misleading.
SC's subreddit is digging up old CR quotes from 2012 as proof that features will be added post release but just because he said something then it does not mean things don't change between then and now. The point is to be clear, to inform your backers, clarify repeatedly, emphatically what the on-going process will be, that stretch goals / new features will be post-release only etc, ie remove all doubt from the equation.
You're saying that if you follow everything about SC then you'd be clued in, a person shouldn't have to do that, a newcomer shouldn't have to watch all the videos and read all the newsletters. If MVP has been on the table for a while then it is CIG's job to get that message accross, not the customers.
One side digs back to 2012 to show that everything has changed. One side digs back to 2012 to show that nothing has changed.
Both sides interpret the exact same words differently. Therein lies the problem with this thing. It's been clear as mud from day one. I personally think by design and only now is it starting to bite asses.
Completely agree on the information though. I'm following because I want this kind of game and even I can't keep up with all the different sources of information snippets or watch endless 30 minute videos to find something was mentioned in passing at 17:44 of 10ftC #873 that contradicts the passing mention at 19:23 of RtV #688, both of which contradict what was originally presented, and still is officially.
You're saying that if you follow everything about SC then you'd be clued in, a person shouldn't have to do that, a newcomer shouldn't have to watch all the videos and read all the newsletters.
That is why there are many fans providing news summaries collected from many sources for their fellow fans or interested newcomers. WIKIs. Status tables. Etc. Everything to be found after 10 seconds on Google.
Still ... People can only offer it. If others do NOT read it .....
True but also not true. You see the thing is, if you are not emphatic about what will and won't be a post release feature then at best you leave yourself open to misinterpretation, at worst you appear to be misleading.
SC's subreddit is digging up old CR quotes from 2012 as proof that features will be added post release but just because he said something then it does not mean things don't change between then and now. The point is to be clear, to inform your backers, clarify repeatedly, emphatically what the on-going process will be, that stretch goals / new features will be post-release only etc, ie remove all doubt from the equation.
You're saying that if you follow everything about SC then you'd be clued in, a person shouldn't have to do that, a newcomer shouldn't have to watch all the videos and read all the newsletters. If MVP has been on the table for a while then it is CIG's job to get that message accross, not the customers.
One side digs back to 2012 to show that everything has changed. One side digs back to 2012 to show that nothing has changed.
Both sides interpret the exact same words differently. Therein lies the problem with this thing. It's been clear as mud from day one. I personally think by design and only now is it starting to bite asses.
Completely agree on the information though. I'm following because I want this kind of game and even I can't keep up with all the different sources of information snippets or watch endless 30 minute videos to find something was mentioned in passing at 17:44 of 10ftC #873 that contradicts the passing mention at 19:23 of RtV #688, both of which contradict what was originally presented, and still is officially.
This is something I despise about SC.. all the dang videos... I am a family man I don't have time or have the inclination to listen to them in the odd event some info in them interests me.
Which is why I check out the threads here in mmorpg because it allows me to glance and see if people are arguing about tidbits I have any interest in, I do the same in the SC forums see if there are any runaway threads. I especially like it when people posts vids and say bla bla at the 15:30 min mark in the vid.
Miss the old days of plain old written updates and the like....
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
You're saying that if you follow everything about SC then you'd be clued in, a person shouldn't have to do that, a newcomer shouldn't have to watch all the videos and read all the newsletters.
That is why there are many fans providing news summaries collected from many sources for their fellow fans or interested newcomers. WIKIs. Status tables. Etc. Everything to be found after 10 seconds on Google.
Still ... People can only offer it. If others do NOT read it .....
Have fun
That's still coming from third party sources. It still can, and does, fall back on individual interpretation and sometimes prognostication on many of those sites. Clear as mud.
Are any of these linked to from RSI? Or should people expect the only way to concisely learn anything about a game they are interested in is via a random internet search versus going to the game's site itself?
This is something I despise about SC.. all the dang videos... I am a family man I don't have time or have the inclination to listen to them in the odd event some info in them interests me.
Which is why I check out the threads here in mmorpg because it allows me to glance and see if people are arguing about tidbits I have any interest in, I do the same in the SC forums see if there are any runaway threads. I especially like it when people posts vids and say bla bla at the 15:30 min mark in the vid.
Miss the old days of plain old written updates and the like....
Yeah, when someone links a time in the video there's at least a chance I'll pay investigate.
Even mainstream news seems to have almost fully embraced putting stories out on video only anymore, sadly. And then they'll do a feature on everyone being glued to their phone. On video.
You're saying that if you follow everything about SC then you'd be clued in, a person shouldn't have to do that, a newcomer shouldn't have to watch all the videos and read all the newsletters.
That is why there are many fans providing news summaries collected from many sources for their fellow fans or interested newcomers. WIKIs. Status tables. Etc. Everything to be found after 10 seconds on Google.
Still ... People can only offer it. If others do NOT read it .....
You're missing the point. You're still putting the onus on the customer to seek out videos or read transcripts to find out such important information.
A customer's first stop would be CIG's official website so why not add something to the stretch goal page? Something obvious and that clearly states all stretch goals past the $57 million point will be added as post release content. It would be official, it's there for any Joe to see without having to play youtube detective etc
Can you be a bit more precise in regard to what exactly can't be done? That's kind of a distance you're jumping to make such a conclusion based on some rather vague statements from CR. Because I'd expect the "minimal viable product" here is still going to carry some lofty expectations. If it's down breaking into some new ground the very notion of SC is lost IMO.
Well the 64 bit math would be number one. Claiming they have done it and implementing it so it works are two completely different things. If that doesnt work then basically nothing they say they can do will work either.
If they have to use 32 bit then they have to start all over again (because I am sure they have tried to do things that cant be done in 32 bit the way they want) So that means almost everything rewritten (for a third or 4th time)
But even if they get 64 to work you have draw distances (short versus long) I know they have tried ot explain that away by 'instancing' each thing but that most likely int possible either. Thats why I said some of that is semi proven.
Planetary landing. Some guys have done it (Jam as I mentioned) so it is possible but not in the system CiG hopes to have.
Then you have the planets themselves. The terrain the textures the draw distance on them. Thats why I said that 20 second walk around that planet is a joke because it doesnt address ANY of the things that more than likely arent possible. Its a generic surface with placeholder background and no spatial references.
The MMO parts are pretty major too....
0 chance ZERO it will be a vast seamless gameworld (universe) A lot of people understand that but I think a few believe it will be. I suspect when all is said and done it will be the most instance and compartmentalized game ever created (assuming it does get made)
Then you have more planetary 'stuff' like cities, man made objects, space stations, how it can be done and how they want to do it. So far has never been done and unlikely they will be the first to do it.
Then of course all the server side client side issues. But we know so little about that its hard to even speculate but BECAUSE we know so little logic would dictate its because they dont know either, thus next logical step not possible. (might be a big step but a step nonetheless).
Then finally the people and all their data and all the back ups and redundancies and whatever else has to be saved stored or protected. Not sure that is even possible the way they want to do it. In a game as vast and as intricate as they (wanted) to make it more than likely wasnt. They may however stream line it enough that they can make it work somehow, but definitely not the way they originally wanted it to. Thus once again semi proven.
There is more but those are contingent on how they tackle these more fundamental problems. But I think that list is what has taken them a few years to (try ) figure out and will more than likely take them a few more.
Oh, another "it can't be done because I say so" post by something with zero insight into the project.
It's already a vast seamless world - it's just not as populated as it will be. The technology is there. The planetary tech is coming along very nicely - as has been demonstrated for everyone.
They've been completely open about how they're handling pretty much everything mentioned - and it's only a matter of reading up on that.
Right now, the focus is on adding one feature at a time - and they're focusing on the poor network performance server-side and the LOD work for the ships.
They have some of the very top-tier guys in the entire industry working on the technology - and even the most hateful sceptic would have to accept that the german guys who helped develop CryEngine know a thing or two about this.
Even if you INSIST on pretending Chris knows nothing about technology and game development - I'm thinking very few people can claim - with a straight face - that the these other guys don't know what they're doing at all. Have you even seen the planetary landing demonstration?
It's amazing how people with no actual knowledge or insight manage to convince themselves they're more of an expert than every single guy on the CIG team.
Amusing in one way, and slightly disturbing in another.
Oh, another "it can't be done because I say so" post by something with zero insight into the project.
It's already a vast seamless world - it's just not as populated as it will be. The technology is there. The planetary tech is coming along very nicely - as has been demonstrated for everyone.
They've been completely open about how they're handling pretty much everything mentioned - and it's only a matter of reading up on that.
Right now, the focus is on adding one feature at a time - and they're focusing on the poor network performance server-side and the LOD work for the ships.
They have some of the very top-tier guys in the entire industry working on the technology - and even the most hateful sceptic would have to accept that the german guys who helped develop CryEngine know a thing or two about this.
Even if you INSIST on pretending Chris knows nothing about technology and game development - I'm thinking very few people can claim - with a straight face - that the these other guys don't know what they're doing at all. Have you even seen the planetary landing demonstration?
It's amazing how people with no actual knowledge or insight manage to convince themselves they're more of an expert than every single guy on the CIG team.
Amusing in one way, and slightly disturbing in another.
There is a lot of false statements in this post. I hear 'completely open' a lot by SC fans but the latest 10FTC doesn't even mention what 'Minimal viable product' is. I have one guy on this site claiming it is goals before 20 million and that I'm dumb to not to believe him. Well, reddit/r/starcitizen is claiming it is 30 million goals. Completely open to what exactly? It was only last week where we had the NDA come out for alpha-alpha-slots.
Which german guy that developed CryEngine is left at CIG? Think the last person left recently?
All I need to know that CIG doesn't have the technical knowledge is to look at how they are handling the VR situation. 'We'll patch it in later' is not something you want to hear when measuring technical proficiency.
Oh, another "it can't be done because I say so" post by something with zero insight into the project.
It's already a vast seamless world - it's just not as populated as it will be. The technology is there. The planetary tech is coming along very nicely - as has been demonstrated for everyone.
They've been completely open about how they're handling pretty much everything mentioned - and it's only a matter of reading up on that.
Right now, the focus is on adding one feature at a time - and they're focusing on the poor network performance server-side and the LOD work for the ships.
They have some of the very top-tier guys in the entire industry working on the technology - and even the most hateful sceptic would have to accept that the german guys who helped develop CryEngine know a thing or two about this.
Even if you INSIST on pretending Chris knows nothing about technology and game development - I'm thinking very few people can claim - with a straight face - that the these other guys don't know what they're doing at all. Have you even seen the planetary landing demonstration?
It's amazing how people with no actual knowledge or insight manage to convince themselves they're more of an expert than every single guy on the CIG team.
Amusing in one way, and slightly disturbing in another.
There is a lot of false statements in this post. I hear 'completely open' a lot by SC fans but the latest 10FTC doesn't even mention what 'Minimal viable product' is. I have one guy on this site claiming it is goals before 20 million and that I'm dumb to not to believe him. Well, reddit/r/starcitizen is claiming it is 30 million goals. Completely open to what exactly? It was only last week where we had the NDA come out for alpha-alpha-slots.
Which german guy that developed CryEngine is left at CIG? Think the last person left recently?
All I need to know that CIG doesn't have the technical knowledge is to look at how they are handling the VR situation. 'We'll patch it in later' is not something you want to hear when measuring technical proficiency.
To me, he's completely clear about his intentions - as he always was.
He can't describe the future about what, exactly, will make it into the game - because he doesn't know. That's what game development is like. So, what you're asking for is the ability to predict the future - which is ludicruous. He IS saying, though, that the game will release with something he's happy with and he calls it a "minimal viable product" - because that's all he can describe it as, right now.
You don't know anything at all about what it means to develop a huge and ambitious game - obviously.
They haven't said anything about "patching in VR" - they've said they have to finish more of the game and its features before it makes sense to focus on VR, because otherwise it would mean redoing it over and over again. That's being smart.
As for what random people are saying online - that's obviously what you've chosen to believe in, anyway. Except when it goes against your negative fantasy spin.
My advice is that you listen to what the developers are saying, instead of ignoring everything that would help you make sense of it.
That said, your agenda is obvious - so my response to you is only for the select few with a genuinely open mind - which may or may not be vocal about their doubts.
Doubts are healthy - but paranoia and hateful spinning of nothings is not.
To me, he's completely clear about his intentions - as he always was.
He can't describe the future about what, exactly, will make it into the game - because he doesn't know. That's what game development is like. So, what you're asking for is the ability to predict the future - which is ludicruous. He IS saying, though, that the game will release with something he's happy with and he calls it a "minimal viable product" - because that's all he can describe it as, right now.
You don't know anything at all about what it means to develop a huge and ambitious game - obviously.
They haven't said anything about "patching in VR" - they've said they have to finish more of the game and its features before it makes sense to focus on VR, because otherwise it would mean redoing it over and over again. That's being smart.
As for what random people are saying online - that's obviously what you've chosen to believe in, anyway. Except when it goes against your negative fantasy spin.
My advice is that you listen to what the developers are saying, instead of ignoring everything that would help you make sense of it.
That said, your agenda is obvious - so my response to you is only for the select few with a genuinely open mind - which may or may not be vocal about their doubts.
Doubts are healthy - but paranoia and hateful spinning of nothings is not.
I don't know anything at all about what it means to develop a huge and ambitious game. Neither does CIG it looks like. I mean, if they can't tell us what Star Citizen is except write "DREAM" on camera, I'm going to ask someone to provide proof, that a company that just told its customers it doesn't know what it can deliver, knows what is going on. Like, if Microsoft told its customers, "hey, we don't know what Windows 10 will be", would anyone not ask the obvious question of 'WTF are you doing Microsoft?'
Developing VR that way is not what I'd call 'smart' and there are more than enough VR developers that can tell you that.
I did listen. I just listened to Chris Roberts say after 112 million dollars, he still doesn't know what SC is.
To me, he's completely clear about his intentions - as he always was.
He can't describe the future about what, exactly, will make it into the game - because he doesn't know. That's what game development is like. So, what you're asking for is the ability to predict the future - which is ludicruous. He IS saying, though, that the game will release with something he's happy with and he calls it a "minimal viable product" - because that's all he can describe it as, right now.
You don't know anything at all about what it means to develop a huge and ambitious game - obviously.
They haven't said anything about "patching in VR" - they've said they have to finish more of the game and its features before it makes sense to focus on VR, because otherwise it would mean redoing it over and over again. That's being smart.
As for what random people are saying online - that's obviously what you've chosen to believe in, anyway. Except when it goes against your negative fantasy spin.
My advice is that you listen to what the developers are saying, instead of ignoring everything that would help you make sense of it.
That said, your agenda is obvious - so my response to you is only for the select few with a genuinely open mind - which may or may not be vocal about their doubts.
Doubts are healthy - but paranoia and hateful spinning of nothings is not.
I don't know anything at all about what it means to develop a huge and ambitious game. Neither does CIG it looks like. I mean, if they can't tell us what Star Citizen is except write "DREAM" on camera, I'm going to ask someone to provide proof, that a company that just told its customers it doesn't know what it can deliver, knows what is going on. Like, if Microsoft told its customers, "hey, we don't know what Windows 10 will be", would anyone not ask the obvious question of 'WTF are you doing Microsoft?'
Developing VR that way is not what I'd call 'smart' and there are more than enough VR developers that can tell you that.
I did listen. I just listened to Chris Roberts say after 112 million dollars, he still doesn't know what SC is.
So, you admit you don't know anything about making games - and then you proceed to claim that CIG don't know anything about it either.
Are you aware of how that sounds?
If you admit you don't know anything about making games - how would you know that these professional game developers don't either?
Because they can't show you a finished game when it's still in early development?
You DO understand that when you're creating a game - no one ever knows the end result until it's done, right?
Again, you're whining because Chris Roberts isn't a psychic. That makes you sound.... not too reasonable, actually.
Comments
Bit a trend there in the news regarding the title. One could actually end up thinking the title is desperately trying to get more money before the studio making it breaks despite it's huge funding.
Have fun
It's neither rainbows and unicorns nor DOOOoooOOooOOm the sky is falling.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
What he is saying really isn't that different from what a lot of people were thinking. Including myself. The difference is that he has a much larger platform (and ego) than a lot of people. Including myself.
I've always thought that this was eventually going to be what happened. Same thing happened with Freelancer, which happened to start with almost the exact same dream feature list. There is no publisher this time though. That's the ultimate reason I stayed back. Without Microsoft, no Freelancer. Without Microsoft or some other golden parachute, ??? Star Citizen. Freelancer was also a mish mash of partially realized, redone, and completely unrealized systems when the curtain was dropped on it. When Microsoft finally raised the curtain again it was a good, maybe even great, game, but missing many of the "groundbreaking" features that were touted. Trend analysis.
The question now becomes whether or not they have, or can obtain, the funding to carry forth with this new(ish) roadmap. I think by this time they've pretty much maximized their presentation to the core audience. Other than any gains brought in if/when they release on Steam, I don't see them reaching much more market at this point. Particularly if this minimum viable product is not a strong contender in a now crowded space. Even releasing on Steam won't help much and may be project suicide if it isn't.
Games like NMS look fun but also don't look very sim like to me and seem more consoley and the artwork is a little too psychedelic for my tastes. There might be a few more in the works but I think they are even farther off if they even see the light of day.
In the end I think they have pretty huge following regardless of all the drama surrounding the game and many of these people are able and willing to drop a hefty dime on the game... Hell you should see the simpits some people are building based around SC and ED... mind boggling the amount of cash they are putting in this.
I am pretty sure if they can get a half decent core game going they will be able to keep getting funds and keep adding to the game.
Can't be any worse than ED and the half baked updates they have been doing for almost full game purchase.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
People can spin it and play semantics all they want.
But the two most important things the critics said in the beginning (well 3 actually) were:
1)Technology doesnt exist to make what they claim possible. That one has been semi proven
2)They dont have enough money to make a game like that (even if it were possible) Proven beyond a shadow of a doubt despite making MUCH more money than they could have ever dreamed of.
3) Cant make an MMO do what they claim they can. This might seem like the same as the technology point but it isnt. Because they couldnt have made what they claimed they could on ANY system that actually exists let alone one they have to 'invent'. Again, proven beyond any doubt.
All the other debates and arguments and crap that has been raised over the past 4 or 5 years doesnt matter. These three things were the crux of all of those arguments and they have now been admitted (without admitting) to be 100% true.
I know the white knights will scream 'yeah but we will get them eventually'. I would say that 50% of all the stretch goal stuff (excluding ships) will never ever be implemented. Probably even more than that.
If you're looking for a space sim and haven't yet, check out Evochrom Mercenary or now Evochron Legacy. Relatively unknown, but surprisingly good for the money. Especially if you like blue over orange/red or grey...
True but also not true.
You see the thing is, if you are not emphatic about what will and won't be a post release feature then at best you leave yourself open to misinterpretation, at worst you appear to be misleading.
SC's subreddit is digging up old CR quotes from 2012 as proof that features will be added post release but just because he said something then it does not mean things don't change between then and now. The point is to be clear, to inform your backers, clarify repeatedly, emphatically what the on-going process will be, that stretch goals / new features will be post-release only etc, ie remove all doubt from the equation.
You're saying that if you follow everything about SC then you'd be clued in, a person shouldn't have to do that, a newcomer shouldn't have to watch all the videos and read all the newsletters. If MVP has been on the table for a while then it is CIG's job to get that message accross, not the customers.
Going to look into Evo Legacy, been keeping an eye on it, but not right now...too busy playing co op Divinity original sin EE with my wife for the time being with solo romps in ED though ED is becoming quite boring atm.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
One side digs back to 2012 to show that nothing has changed.
Both sides interpret the exact same words differently. Therein lies the problem with this thing. It's been clear as mud from day one. I personally think by design and only now is it starting to bite asses.
Completely agree on the information though. I'm following because I want this kind of game and even I can't keep up with all the different sources of information snippets or watch endless 30 minute videos to find something was mentioned in passing at 17:44 of 10ftC #873 that contradicts the passing mention at 19:23 of RtV #688, both of which contradict what was originally presented, and still is officially.
Still ... People can only offer it. If others do NOT read it .....
Have fun
Which is why I check out the threads here in mmorpg because it allows me to glance and see if people are arguing about tidbits I have any interest in, I do the same in the SC forums see if there are any runaway threads. I especially like it when people posts vids and say bla bla at the 15:30 min mark in the vid.
Miss the old days of plain old written updates and the like....
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Are any of these linked to from RSI? Or should people expect the only way to concisely learn anything about a game they are interested in is via a random internet search versus going to the game's site itself?
Even mainstream news seems to have almost fully embraced putting stories out on video only anymore, sadly. And then they'll do a feature on everyone being glued to their phone. On video.
You're missing the point. You're still putting the onus on the customer to seek out videos or read transcripts to find out such important information.
A customer's first stop would be CIG's official website so why not add something to the stretch goal page? Something obvious and that clearly states all stretch goals past the $57 million point will be added as post release content.
It would be official, it's there for any Joe to see without having to play youtube detective etc
If they have to use 32 bit then they have to start all over again (because I am sure they have tried to do things that cant be done in 32 bit the way they want) So that means almost everything rewritten (for a third or 4th time)
But even if they get 64 to work you have draw distances (short versus long) I know they have tried ot explain that away by 'instancing' each thing but that most likely int possible either. Thats why I said some of that is semi proven.
Planetary landing. Some guys have done it (Jam as I mentioned) so it is possible but not in the system CiG hopes to have.
Then you have the planets themselves. The terrain the textures the draw distance on them. Thats why I said that 20 second walk around that planet is a joke because it doesnt address ANY of the things that more than likely arent possible. Its a generic surface with placeholder background and no spatial references.
The MMO parts are pretty major too....
0 chance ZERO it will be a vast seamless gameworld (universe) A lot of people understand that but I think a few believe it will be. I suspect when all is said and done it will be the most instance and compartmentalized game ever created (assuming it does get made)
Then you have more planetary 'stuff' like cities, man made objects, space stations, how it can be done and how they want to do it. So far has never been done and unlikely they will be the first to do it.
Then of course all the server side client side issues. But we know so little about that its hard to even speculate but BECAUSE we know so little logic would dictate its because they dont know either, thus next logical step not possible. (might be a big step but a step nonetheless).
Then finally the people and all their data and all the back ups and redundancies and whatever else has to be saved stored or protected. Not sure that is even possible the way they want to do it. In a game as vast and as intricate as they (wanted) to make it more than likely wasnt. They may however stream line it enough that they can make it work somehow, but definitely not the way they originally wanted it to. Thus once again semi proven.
There is more but those are contingent on how they tackle these more fundamental problems. But I think that list is what has taken them a few years to (try ) figure out and will more than likely take them a few more.
It's already a vast seamless world - it's just not as populated as it will be. The technology is there. The planetary tech is coming along very nicely - as has been demonstrated for everyone.
They've been completely open about how they're handling pretty much everything mentioned - and it's only a matter of reading up on that.
Right now, the focus is on adding one feature at a time - and they're focusing on the poor network performance server-side and the LOD work for the ships.
They have some of the very top-tier guys in the entire industry working on the technology - and even the most hateful sceptic would have to accept that the german guys who helped develop CryEngine know a thing or two about this.
Even if you INSIST on pretending Chris knows nothing about technology and game development - I'm thinking very few people can claim - with a straight face - that the these other guys don't know what they're doing at all. Have you even seen the planetary landing demonstration?
It's amazing how people with no actual knowledge or insight manage to convince themselves they're more of an expert than every single guy on the CIG team.
Amusing in one way, and slightly disturbing in another.
I hear 'completely open' a lot by SC fans but the latest 10FTC doesn't even mention what 'Minimal viable product' is. I have one guy on this site claiming it is goals before 20 million and that I'm dumb to not to believe him. Well, reddit/r/starcitizen is claiming it is 30 million goals.
Completely open to what exactly? It was only last week where we had the NDA come out for alpha-alpha-slots.
Which german guy that developed CryEngine is left at CIG? Think the last person left recently?
All I need to know that CIG doesn't have the technical knowledge is to look at how they are handling the VR situation. 'We'll patch it in later' is not something you want to hear when measuring technical proficiency.
Original - http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3748466&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=4551#post462019951 (paywall)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-15-through-gritted-teeth-star-citizen-developer-gives-player-whopping-usd2500-refund
CIG is sued by Crytek
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/14/16776300/crytek-star-citizen-lawsuit-cig-rsi
EX-Backer StreetRoller sues Chris Roberts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojx7VcbowYQ
He can't describe the future about what, exactly, will make it into the game - because he doesn't know. That's what game development is like. So, what you're asking for is the ability to predict the future - which is ludicruous. He IS saying, though, that the game will release with something he's happy with and he calls it a "minimal viable product" - because that's all he can describe it as, right now.
You don't know anything at all about what it means to develop a huge and ambitious game - obviously.
They haven't said anything about "patching in VR" - they've said they have to finish more of the game and its features before it makes sense to focus on VR, because otherwise it would mean redoing it over and over again. That's being smart.
As for what random people are saying online - that's obviously what you've chosen to believe in, anyway. Except when it goes against your negative fantasy spin.
My advice is that you listen to what the developers are saying, instead of ignoring everything that would help you make sense of it.
That said, your agenda is obvious - so my response to you is only for the select few with a genuinely open mind - which may or may not be vocal about their doubts.
Doubts are healthy - but paranoia and hateful spinning of nothings is not.
https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/feature-list
https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/squadron42
https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link
https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/community
https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/community/deep-space-radar
https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/press
https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/community/livestreams
https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/community/devtracker
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/
https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/community/issue-council
http://www.scqa.eu/
Everything is there (from CIG and fans) ... in as much or as little detail as one wants. Only 10 seconds away on Google.
But as I said ... if people do NOT read it .....
Have fun
Like, if Microsoft told its customers, "hey, we don't know what Windows 10 will be", would anyone not ask the obvious question of 'WTF are you doing Microsoft?'
Developing VR that way is not what I'd call 'smart' and there are more than enough VR developers that can tell you that.
I did listen. I just listened to Chris Roberts say after 112 million dollars, he still doesn't know what SC is.
Original - http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3748466&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=4551#post462019951 (paywall)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-15-through-gritted-teeth-star-citizen-developer-gives-player-whopping-usd2500-refund
CIG is sued by Crytek
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/14/16776300/crytek-star-citizen-lawsuit-cig-rsi
EX-Backer StreetRoller sues Chris Roberts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojx7VcbowYQ
Are you aware of how that sounds?
If you admit you don't know anything about making games - how would you know that these professional game developers don't either?
Because they can't show you a finished game when it's still in early development?
You DO understand that when you're creating a game - no one ever knows the end result until it's done, right?
Again, you're whining because Chris Roberts isn't a psychic. That makes you sound.... not too reasonable, actually.