Do we know where these 10mil are from (i.e. country breakdown)? And are the ACTIVE players right this instance?
I know Blizzard has been accused of inflating it's numbers on WoW by counting anyone that EVER had a sub or trial account no matter if it was active or not. Also wasn't only 5mil (which is good no doubt about it) from Europe & NA with the bulk being from China?
I'm also wondering how much Company loyalty plays into this.
I actually believe in Blizzard's number, because they have huge drop off. If they counted those inactive account, it won't have huge drop off.
And I dont' think Blizzard is actually hiding most of it's players are not even in Europe or US. Everyone knows it already.
What we do know is, Blizzard is stop posting numbers, so the future dont' look too bright.
I would suggest you ask, politely, the admin here, since OW is classified as such on the game list here.
I couldn't care less what the admins here consider as such on their game list. The site is called MMORPG.com yet I see Moba articles and advertisements quite regularly. It has very little to do with genre at this point and more so to do with what is "hot" right now and what will generate the site ad revenue. Can't really blame them there is not much to report on in terms of MMORPG's these days. Anyone can clearly see that 90% of games being advertised and having articles written about them on this site are not even out or even worse are in "early access". That is the state of the market. The games that are out are old news, and the games that are coming out are the next pipe dream band wagon to jump onto. So is Overwatch an MMO? No. It is not a massively multiplayer online game. There is nothing massive about a 6v6 death match with a lobby queue system. Don't dumb yourself down to the point where you accept something for what it is not just because the internet told you it was.
Overwatch = Hype = Money
Its a very simple equation to understand why MMORPG.com admins would label it as an "MMO". Lets all move past this incredibly stupid topic.
Overwatch is like the WoW of this genre; there's going to be so many god-awful attempts to re-create that success, which we're already seeing in Battleborn, Gigantic, Paladins, Paragon, etc.
All of those games are horrible abominations which are struggling to make it. This is rightly so, as Overwatch is so vastly superior to all 4 of those games summed that it deserves to shine. It took chances, it challenged/created it's own genre. The rest were just cheap imitators which tried to play it safe and cash in on being "like Overwatch but not Overwatch"
For your information Battleborn was announced well before Overwatch ever was and it was created from scratch. Not from the ashes and assets of a failed attempt at another game.
I would suggest you ask, politely, the admin here, since OW is classified as such on the game list here.
I couldn't care less what the admins here consider as such on their game list. The site is called MMORPG.com yet I see Moba articles and advertisements quite regularly. It has very little to do with genre at this point and more so to do with what is "hot" right now and what will generate the site ad revenue. Can't really blame them there is not much to report on in terms of MMORPG's these days. Anyone can clearly see that 90% of games being advertised and having articles written about them on this site are not even out or even worse are in "early access". That is the state of the market. The games that are out are old news, and the games that are coming out are the next pipe dream band wagon to jump onto. So is Overwatch an MMO? No. It is not a massively multiplayer online game. There is nothing massive about a 6v6 death match with a lobby queue system. Don't dumb yourself down to the point where you accept something for what it is not just because the internet told you it was.
Overwatch = Hype = Money
Its a very simple equation to understand why MMORPG.com admins would label it as an "MMO". Lets all move past this incredibly stupid topic.
Dam it ... why would you feed it .................
So OW already sold more than 7M copies. The cheapest is the $40 PC version, so Blizz has already made $280M in its first week. May be a bit lower than The Division, but still, it is priced at $40, not $60 across the board (except for consoles).
It is also highly rated on metacritics.
I bet Blizz is really happy scrapping Titan and made OW. Are we going see
a) even more online team shooters? b) more MMOs are going to be shooter-like to capitalize on the trend c) now OW is going to be called a MMO (not that it has not) by more websites just to drive traffic?
Discuss!
a) Most likely. But other companies cant keep up with Blizzard. Everyone is still jumping on the card game bandwagon because of Hearthstone. Now they have to make a shooter as well? By the time that's done, Blizz will release another smash hit. I don't know when people are going to realize clones never work.
Paladins is not too bad, I enjoy it from time to time. I rather enjoy Paragon, but it s not even close to the same game as OW. OW on the other hand is far superior to any of those games mentioned, but I still do enjoy the others as well.
Overwatch is like the WoW of this genre; there's going to be so many god-awful attempts to re-create that success, which we're already seeing in Battleborn, Gigantic, Paladins, Paragon, etc.
All of those games are horrible abominations which are struggling to make it. This is rightly so, as Overwatch is so vastly superior to all 4 of those games summed that it deserves to shine. It took chances, it challenged/created it's own genre. The rest were just cheap imitators which tried to play it safe and cash in on being "like Overwatch but not Overwatch"
For your information Battleborn was announced well before Overwatch ever was and it was created from scratch. Not from the ashes and assets of a failed attempt at another game.
I had a post typed up in response to the one you quoted, highlighting where Blizzard lifted multiple gameplay mechanics/systems directly from TF2 (which is a decade old and still had ~56,000 players in-game according to Steam today at 11:20 AM CST) to directly refute this "created/challenged the genre" lunacy.
However, as you saw, I decided to give the poster the benefit of the doubt and assume he's just an amazingly sly troll.
play of the game goes to bastion 70% because your team is usually full of 12 year olds who just run into his turret fire over and over again. The idea of the game is certain heroes counter other heroes just like a moba.
ROFL um no. most of my plays of the game are with Reaper, Junkrat or Tracer.. there are always going to be terrible players, i am guessing you havent learned to counter yet.
Bastion is one of the easiest to kill. At first people said it was OP, now I think its just average at best. I get a lot more POTG as Junkrat and Soldier then anyone else.
I know Blizzard has been accused of inflating it's numbers on WoW by counting anyone that EVER had a sub or trial account no matter if it was active or not. Also wasn't only 5mil (which is good no doubt about it) from Europe & NA with the bulk being from China?
Accused by whom? Blizzard, whenever they post their numbers always posts a clear overview together with those numbers that describes what these numbers consist of, which is always active full accounts, which you either need a subscription for (the west) or an acces card (china).
Inflating its numbers would be considered accounting fraud. Googling on the internet i don't see any credible information that they did that, no magazine or financial paper that makes that claim, just a lot of forum posts of frustrated preteens that are green with envy of Blizzards success and have no idea what they are talking about.
Also consider that for many years Blizzard made more then 1 billion dollars a year, even in 2012 they where taking in more then a 100 million dollars of income a month. As a public company these figures are publicly available and have been audited. Obviously they don't earn that kind of money by "inflating numbers" and "counting everyone that ever had a sub or trial account". If that was true then a lot of other MMO's (that actually do count every sub and trial account) should be making more then a 100 million dollars a month as well.
I doubt it would be accounting fraud, misleading advertising would be more like it.
But to answer your question; about 3 - 4? years ago it was making the rounds of the different independent forums. I don't play so I couldn't care less.
And claiming numbers wouldn't effect how much they make. Doesn't matter if I say I have 5 friends or 50 friends my income stays the same and their's would too.
And while the player numbers drop off could be a couple of mil players quiting, it also could be the case of starting to count different. The US Navy used to have over 600 ships, which they got by counting EVERYTHING that floated. New administration came in and started only counting warships, we went from 600 to 300 overnight.
Not important in the long run, just asking a question.
It's Mr @Cymdai that is making claims of imitations and creations of genres. I hope it is a joke.
As to which of any of the games are better than the other? I have no idea as I've never played any of them. The style of game just isn't my thing.
Does Blizzard make good games? I enjoy a many of them.
It's the "imitation" claim that I find deplorable.
Well allow me to clarify.
When Overwatch announced, it mentioned it was going to be a team-based FPS with MOBA-like elements. It didn't adhere strictly to FPS rules, nor did it structure itself like a MOBA, but shares elements of both (though honestly, it's a better, newer Team Fortress 2). Hence you'll hear the term "MOBA-like shooter" as a classification for it.
Paragon, Battleborn, Paladins, and Lawbreakers are all team-based MOBAs with FPS-like elements. They adhere much more closely to MOBA dynamics, with bits and pieces of FPS elements. As a result, it's also a "MOBA-like" classification.
Overwatch, however, has simply done it best. The numbers don't lie, and it's even stealing people from other games (DotA2 and LoL most specifically) because of it's mass appeal and technical excellence.
Battleborn, while (in my opinion) the most fun of the other 5 is an EA game, and it's already focusing on Microtransactions. I don't think it's going to last, honestly. It just lacks staying power and no one I know cares about it, honestly. I blame it's poor beta reception.
Paragon is a total mess. The game seems to dramatically change every few weeks because it's in such a pisspoor state, and has even done explanatory interviews apologizing for the state of the game. However... they then went on to sell a $60 boxed product... for a free to play game.... on the PS4. It reeks of a cash grab, and the practice as a whole is deplorable and should be viewed as disgraceful within the industry.
Paladins, Gigantic, and Lawbreakers, I basically haven't even played or looked at. To me, they look so bland and unoriginal that I don't actually even feel compelled to try them. That's my problem, I suppose.
When I reference the imitation though, it's most specifically directed at Paragon. The game has carbon-copy ripoff heroes in the game from other games, bordering on copyright infringement because of the exactness. I should probably have better specified that. While I think all of these games will ultimately try their damnedest to imitate Overwatch, especially due to it's initial success, I think they'll all fail because they lack an identity of their own, whereas OW seems to have really already decided what it is and what it wants to be.
Also, apologies for the inaccuracies on my timelines. I was mistaken. Not trolling, just ignorant
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
It's Mr @Cymdai that is making claims of imitations and creations of genres. I hope it is a joke.
As to which of any of the games are better than the other? I have no idea as I've never played any of them. The style of game just isn't my thing.
Does Blizzard make good games? I enjoy a many of them.
It's the "imitation" claim that I find deplorable.
This "imitation" thing is out of control. One of the best games this year Stardew Valley borrowed heavily from Harvest Moon, Salt and Sanctuary leaned ALL the way into the Dark Souls series, and for a few years now, Path of Exile has been scratching the itch for old Diablo I & II lovers. These are great games, that still manage to offer personalities of their own. Improving on existing invention is how we got here, folks......nothing really new under the sun...evolution is a tweak.
This "imitation" thing is out of control. One of the best games this year Stardew Valley borrowed heavily from Harvest Moon, Salt and Sanctuary leaned ALL the way into the Dark Souls series, and for a few years now, Path of Exile has been scratching the itch for old Diablo I & II lovers. These are great games, that still manage to offer personalities of their own. Improving on existing invention is how we got here, folks......nothing really new under the sun...evolution is a tweak.
Really innovation of gaming is few and far in-between: FPS, Action RPG, MMORPG, MOBAs .....
There is no reason why imitation cannot be good games.
When Overwatch announced, it mentioned it was going to be a team-based FPS with MOBA-like elements. It didn't adhere strictly to FPS rules, nor did it structure itself like a MOBA, but shares elements of both (though honestly, it's a better, newer Team Fortress 2). Hence you'll hear the term "MOBA-like shooter" as a classification for it.
Paragon, Battleborn, Paladins, and Lawbreakers are all team-based MOBAs with FPS-like elements. They adhere much more closely to MOBA dynamics, with bits and pieces of FPS elements. As a result, it's also a "MOBA-like" classification.
Overwatch, however, has simply done it best. The numbers don't lie, and it's even stealing people from other games (DotA2 and LoL most specifically) because of it's mass appeal and technical excellence.
Battleborn, while (in my opinion) the most fun of the other 5 is an EA game, and it's already focusing on Microtransactions. I don't think it's going to last, honestly. It just lacks staying power and no one I know cares about it, honestly. I blame it's poor beta reception.
Paragon is a total mess. The game seems to dramatically change every few weeks because it's in such a pisspoor state, and has even done explanatory interviews apologizing for the state of the game. However... they then went on to sell a $60 boxed product... for a free to play game.... on the PS4. It reeks of a cash grab, and the practice as a whole is deplorable and should be viewed as disgraceful within the industry.
Paladins, Gigantic, and Lawbreakers, I basically haven't even played or looked at. To me, they look so bland and unoriginal that I don't actually even feel compelled to try them. That's my problem, I suppose.
When I reference the imitation though, it's most specifically directed at Paragon. The game has carbon-copy ripoff heroes in the game from other games, bordering on copyright infringement because of the exactness. I should probably have better specified that. While I think all of these games will ultimately try their damnedest to imitate Overwatch, especially due to it's initial success, I think they'll all fail because they lack an identity of their own, whereas OW seems to have really already decided what it is and what it wants to be.
Also, apologies for the inaccuracies on my timelines. I was mistaken. Not trolling, just ignorant
All of that means very little when you write-off how much Overwatch copied TF2 directly as if it's nothing while your entire point is how deplorable it is for Paragon and Battleborn to try and imitate Overwatch. That's a laughable level of cognitive dissonance.
The idea that Paragon (or even Battleborn) were even attempting to imitate Overwatch is silly, as they're different genres (hero shooter vs. third-person or first-person traditional MOBA). Until Blizzard decides to change Overwatch completely by adding minion waves and mirrored, destructible defense objectives for each team (complete with "jungle camps" that provide advantages to teams and a per-match level progression and/or item system), to claim Paragon or Battleborn are trying to imitate Blizzard's title makes you look uninformed at best, a white-knight at worst. Those minions, jungle camps, and defensive turrets/towers/bots/what-have-yous coupled with per-match progression significantly alter the overall gameplay experience. Which is why we have genres in the first place: to differentiate between games that offer significantly different experiences. Why do you think Axehilt and laserit LOL'd your original post and agreed when I quoted you with the trolling meme? You're the perfect example of folks taking a good Blizzard game and trying to herald it as the second coming of gaming Christ.
If you're speaking simply of imitating the successful numbers of Overwatch... Well, I'm not sure I know a single game developer who wasn't trying to create a hit when developing their game. That's like saying Barry Bonds spent his career trying to imitate Babe Ruth by hitting homeruns.
If you're speaking simply of imitating the successful numbers of Overwatch... Well, I'm not sure I know a single game developer who wasn't trying to create a hit when developing their game.
Didn't many here say they want "niche", instead of "hit" games? Aren't all the niche devs NOT trying to go for big numbers?
If you don't any, you have not looked hard enough in the "indie" dev pool.
If you're speaking simply of imitating the successful numbers of Overwatch... Well, I'm not sure I know a single game developer who wasn't trying to create a hit when developing their game.
Didn't many here say they want "niche", instead of "hit" games? Aren't all the niche devs NOT trying to go for big numbers?
If you don't any, you have not looked hard enough in the "indie" dev pool.
Niche doesn't include the word small nor big in its definition (as applied to video games).
From Merriam-Webster:
niche - the situation in which a business's products or services can succeed by being sold to a particular kind or group of people; a specialized market.
The market for CS:GO, for instance, is very specialized. But it's not small.
When Overwatch announced, it mentioned it was going to be a team-based FPS with MOBA-like elements. It didn't adhere strictly to FPS rules, nor did it structure itself like a MOBA, but shares elements of both (though honestly, it's a better, newer Team Fortress 2). Hence you'll hear the term "MOBA-like shooter" as a classification for it.
Paragon, Battleborn, Paladins, and Lawbreakers are all team-based MOBAs with FPS-like elements. They adhere much more closely to MOBA dynamics, with bits and pieces of FPS elements. As a result, it's also a "MOBA-like" classification.
Overwatch, however, has simply done it best. The numbers don't lie, and it's even stealing people from other games (DotA2 and LoL most specifically) because of it's mass appeal and technical excellence.
Battleborn, while (in my opinion) the most fun of the other 5 is an EA game, and it's already focusing on Microtransactions. I don't think it's going to last, honestly. It just lacks staying power and no one I know cares about it, honestly. I blame it's poor beta reception.
Paragon is a total mess. The game seems to dramatically change every few weeks because it's in such a pisspoor state, and has even done explanatory interviews apologizing for the state of the game. However... they then went on to sell a $60 boxed product... for a free to play game.... on the PS4. It reeks of a cash grab, and the practice as a whole is deplorable and should be viewed as disgraceful within the industry.
Paladins, Gigantic, and Lawbreakers, I basically haven't even played or looked at. To me, they look so bland and unoriginal that I don't actually even feel compelled to try them. That's my problem, I suppose.
When I reference the imitation though, it's most specifically directed at Paragon. The game has carbon-copy ripoff heroes in the game from other games, bordering on copyright infringement because of the exactness. I should probably have better specified that. While I think all of these games will ultimately try their damnedest to imitate Overwatch, especially due to it's initial success, I think they'll all fail because they lack an identity of their own, whereas OW seems to have really already decided what it is and what it wants to be.
Also, apologies for the inaccuracies on my timelines. I was mistaken. Not trolling, just ignorant
All of that means very little when you write-off how much Overwatch copied TF2 directly as if it's nothing while your entire point is how deplorable it is for Paragon and Battleborn to try and imitate Overwatch. That's a laughable level of cognitive dissonance.
The idea that Paragon (or even Battleborn) were even attempting to imitate Overwatch is silly, as they're different genres (hero shooter vs. third-person or first-person traditional MOBA). Until Blizzard decides to change Overwatch completely by adding minion waves and mirrored, destructible defense objectives for each team (complete with "jungle camps" that provide advantages to teams and a per-match level progression and/or item system), to claim Paragon or Battleborn are trying to imitate Blizzard's title makes you look uninformed at best, a white-knight at worst. Those minions, jungle camps, and defensive turrets/towers/bots/what-have-yous coupled with per-match progression significantly alter the overall gameplay experience. Which is why we have genres in the first place: to differentiate between games that offer significantly different experiences. Why do you think Axehilt and laserit LOL'd your original post and agreed when I quoted you with the trolling meme? You're the perfect example of folks taking a good Blizzard game and trying to herald it as the second coming of gaming Christ.
If you're speaking simply of imitating the successful numbers of Overwatch... Well, I'm not sure I know a single game developer who wasn't trying to create a hit when developing their game. That's like saying Barry Bonds spent his career trying to imitate Babe Ruth by hitting homeruns.
Without getting into it very deeply on the message boards, I'd be more than happy to give you all kinds of insider insight via PM if you're really itching for it.
I recognize you have strong convictions, but strong convictions do not make me wrong.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
If you're speaking simply of imitating the successful numbers of Overwatch... Well, I'm not sure I know a single game developer who wasn't trying to create a hit when developing their game.
Didn't many here say they want "niche", instead of "hit" games? Aren't all the niche devs NOT trying to go for big numbers?
If you don't any, you have not looked hard enough in the "indie" dev pool.
Niche doesn't include the word small nor big in its definition (as applied to video games).
From Merriam-Webster:
niche - the situation in which a business's products or services can succeed by being sold to a particular kind or group of people; a specialized market.
The market for CS:GO, for instance, is very specialized. But it's not small.
EDIT- Awww, screw trying to link it.
In that case, let's change the word to small ... because niche indie games *are* small, compared to OW numbers, unless you are minecraft.
Comments
I actually believe in Blizzard's number, because they have huge drop off. If they counted those inactive account, it won't have huge drop off.
And I dont' think Blizzard is actually hiding most of it's players are not even in Europe or US. Everyone knows it already.
What we do know is, Blizzard is stop posting numbers, so the future dont' look too bright.
Overwatch = Hype = Money
Its a very simple equation to understand why MMORPG.com admins would label it as an "MMO".
Lets all move past this incredibly stupid topic.
For your information Battleborn was announced well before Overwatch ever was and it was created from scratch. Not from the ashes and assets of a failed attempt at another game.
I wonder who was imitating who?
Surprised you'd agree with this kind of crap @Jean-Luc_Picard
Nothing like blind fanboism
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
a) Most likely. But other companies cant keep up with Blizzard. Everyone is still jumping on the card game bandwagon because of Hearthstone. Now they have to make a shooter as well? By the time that's done, Blizz will release another smash hit. I don't know when people are going to realize clones never work.
b) No.
c) No.
However, as you saw, I decided to give the poster the benefit of the doubt and assume he's just an amazingly sly troll.
My point in quoting him was merely to reference the poster he quoted from earlier.
As to which of any of the games are better than the other? I have no idea as I've never played any of them. The style of game just isn't my thing.
Does Blizzard make good games? I enjoy a many of them.
It's the "imitation" claim that I find deplorable.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
But to answer your question; about 3 - 4? years ago it was making the rounds of the different independent forums. I don't play so I couldn't care less.
And claiming numbers wouldn't effect how much they make. Doesn't matter if I say I have 5 friends or 50 friends my income stays the same and their's would too.
And while the player numbers drop off could be a couple of mil players quiting, it also could be the case of starting to count different. The US Navy used to have over 600 ships, which they got by counting EVERYTHING that floated. New administration came in and started only counting warships, we went from 600 to 300 overnight.
Not important in the long run, just asking a question.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
http://www.pcgamer.com/overwatch-breaks-10-million-players/
So 10M in 3 weeks ... making at least $400M less than a month? How long does it take Diablo3 to sell that many copies?
When Overwatch announced, it mentioned it was going to be a team-based FPS with MOBA-like elements. It didn't adhere strictly to FPS rules, nor did it structure itself like a MOBA, but shares elements of both (though honestly, it's a better, newer Team Fortress 2). Hence you'll hear the term "MOBA-like shooter" as a classification for it.
Paragon, Battleborn, Paladins, and Lawbreakers are all team-based MOBAs with FPS-like elements. They adhere much more closely to MOBA dynamics, with bits and pieces of FPS elements. As a result, it's also a "MOBA-like" classification.
Overwatch, however, has simply done it best. The numbers don't lie, and it's even stealing people from other games (DotA2 and LoL most specifically) because of it's mass appeal and technical excellence.
Battleborn, while (in my opinion) the most fun of the other 5 is an EA game, and it's already focusing on Microtransactions. I don't think it's going to last, honestly. It just lacks staying power and no one I know cares about it, honestly. I blame it's poor beta reception.
Paragon is a total mess. The game seems to dramatically change every few weeks because it's in such a pisspoor state, and has even done explanatory interviews apologizing for the state of the game. However... they then went on to sell a $60 boxed product... for a free to play game.... on the PS4. It reeks of a cash grab, and the practice as a whole is deplorable and should be viewed as disgraceful within the industry.
Paladins, Gigantic, and Lawbreakers, I basically haven't even played or looked at. To me, they look so bland and unoriginal that I don't actually even feel compelled to try them. That's my problem, I suppose.
When I reference the imitation though, it's most specifically directed at Paragon. The game has carbon-copy ripoff heroes in the game from other games, bordering on copyright infringement because of the exactness. I should probably have better specified that. While I think all of these games will ultimately try their damnedest to imitate Overwatch, especially due to it's initial success, I think they'll all fail because they lack an identity of their own, whereas OW seems to have really already decided what it is and what it wants to be.
Also, apologies for the inaccuracies on my timelines. I was mistaken. Not trolling, just ignorant
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
There is no reason why imitation cannot be good games.
The idea that Paragon (or even Battleborn) were even attempting to imitate Overwatch is silly, as they're different genres (hero shooter vs. third-person or first-person traditional MOBA). Until Blizzard decides to change Overwatch completely by adding minion waves and mirrored, destructible defense objectives for each team (complete with "jungle camps" that provide advantages to teams and a per-match level progression and/or item system), to claim Paragon or Battleborn are trying to imitate Blizzard's title makes you look uninformed at best, a white-knight at worst. Those minions, jungle camps, and defensive turrets/towers/bots/what-have-yous coupled with per-match progression significantly alter the overall gameplay experience. Which is why we have genres in the first place: to differentiate between games that offer significantly different experiences. Why do you think Axehilt and laserit LOL'd your original post and agreed when I quoted you with the trolling meme? You're the perfect example of folks taking a good Blizzard game and trying to herald it as the second coming of gaming Christ.
If you're speaking simply of imitating the successful numbers of Overwatch... Well, I'm not sure I know a single game developer who wasn't trying to create a hit when developing their game. That's like saying Barry Bonds spent his career trying to imitate Babe Ruth by hitting homeruns.
Didn't many here say they want "niche", instead of "hit" games? Aren't all the niche devs NOT trying to go for big numbers?
If you don't any, you have not looked hard enough in the "indie" dev pool.
From Merriam-Webster:
niche - the situation in which a business's products or services can succeed by being sold to a particular kind or group of people; a specialized market.
The market for CS:GO, for instance, is very specialized. But it's not small.
EDIT- Awww, screw trying to link it.
I recognize you have strong convictions, but strong convictions do not make me wrong.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...