@Adjuvant1 People can be even MORE illogical than you think. CIG planned to stop adding new stretch goals sooner. But due to strong backer demand for more on the forums they kept going for another half a year more. Only then CIG finally stopped - apologizing to the backers for doing so.
Have fun
It was a poll with no option to say "no more stretch goal". LOL
Because the SC Wiki is old and nobody even gives a shit about it to update it anymore? Because so much stuff has been changed, amended and retconned to the point gaslighted fans genuinely are concerned such a permanent record will do harm to the project? Because there's really no point because all the talk out of the mouths of CIG people is cheap?
I don't know. Why don't you think we consult the wiki more often? How many of your arguments would that actually help?
You have not yet realized that this is a link taken from Wikipedia, NOT the Star Citizen Wiki, correct ?
Which tells me you asked something, but were absolutely NOT interested in getting a verifyable answer.
I never said this issue is going to take it down and I doubt the next issue is likely to do the same. What will be the nail in the coffin for SC is the pile up of all the small issues.
Small bean issues can become massive problems in a very short time if you leave them unchecked. Issues like this are going to make people start looking harder for more issues at CIG and at some point one of these small issues could step on the wrongs persons feet and all hell could break loose.
Is the above likely to happen? I don't know since I can't predict the future but I do know that CIG does need to get their house in order or one day someone might come knocking that will do it for them and the result wont be pretty.
That depends on the nature of those issues, as well as how they're exposed. You have to create a very realistically vile scenario to get the masses paying attention. Pointing out small issues over and over again can go just as sour, just as quick.
Constantly lighting a match and calling it a fire doesn't bring more attention to things burning, it does just the opposite, it makes the likely-hood of a real fire going unchecked all the more likely.
Timing matters as well, these things always seem to pop up right on the verge of some SC milestone, be it a PTU release, an upcoming event etc...
A vile issue will get the masses attention for sure but you can alienate your audience one small fuck up at a time.
Constant missed deadlines will upset some people and they might get out as best they can Stolen art assets might upset some others and they will wipe their hands of the project The perceived greed could turn off others and they turn against the game
all small potatoes in the grand scheme of things but how many backers have you just turned off your game and how many potential backers who are sitting on the fence did you just shove off and into the do not back side?
It goes both ways sometimes with your match analogy. Some wont pay attention when a fire is raging but others will be actively looking for that fire as well (others might be the ones lighting and throwing the match lol).
Really though I'm not surprised more people aren't pissed off that CIG is touting persistence as some massive, awesome feat that they accomplished when in reality its a basic feature of just about any game on the market. Its not a vile issue but it should have people wondering what the hell is going on over there if this is some major milestone.
You can also lose your audience one mountain out of a mole hill at a time. Sensationalizing minor issues simply desensitizes some people to the point there's a good chance they'll flat out ignore you if you do bring up a major issue.
And I'm surprised so many people are pissed off at SC when as you say, its just another video game. I baffles me why some individuals devote so much time into plotting a video game's destruction as it seems like a massive waste of time and energy that could best be spent elsewhere. *shrug*
I'm not sure which is worse, a universe where everyone is talking about corporations doing things like this or a universe where no-one is talking about it.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
And yes, I'm in the not this shit again group. It's irritating when stupid bullshit keeps getting plastered all over the forum. So why not ask more difficult questions. People throwing stones live in glass houses.
Yet you have absolutely no problem when the "stupid bullshit being posted all over the forum" are gratuitous Erillion posts several times a day which are only pasta from the official site. You have some strange, quasi-adverse-negativity bias. I mean, it's arguable DS, others and I have a negativity bias, while you and a handful of others can't seem to look away and so you reply with derision. You have little to no stake in the issue and feel it's your job to ostracize and correct us. You don't actually care about the project, you don't actually care about a moral compass, you don't actually care about an outcome. You're an obsessed anti-fan of the participants in an ongoing conflict.
[mod edit]
edit: You know, it's one thing if it's "I like the game, here's what I think and why", or "I don't like the game, here's what I think and why", but a bunch of you are the real problem with what's shitting up the forums here. It's "I don't like you because you express a negative view and I think it's my job to correct you". That's a huge separation from the actual discussion. THAT is the problem around here, not the people who post fact, for or against, a company. THAT is what needs moderated.
Totally agree with you Adjuvant1, I see time and time again (from both sides) what amounts to personal attacks from certain people who post here and on other forums, they deliberately derail topics and attempt to stereotype posters in an effort to kill their point of view.
Luckily so far the forum mods here at MMORPG are doing an OK job I noticed that a few people's posts seem to have been removed from this thread and they've been banned.
“Nevertheless, the human brain, which survives by hoping from one second to another, will always endeavor to put off the moment of truth. Moist” ― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
Totally agree with you Adjuvant1, I see time and time again (from both sides) what amounts to personal attacks from certain people who post here and on other forums, they deliberately derail topics and attempt to stereotype posters in an effort to kill their point of view.
Luckily so far the forum mods here at MMORPG are doing an OK job I noticed that a few people's posts seem to have been removed from this thread and they've been banned.
Well it seems to me, when a person makes a declaration to the effect of "I don't really care about the game, I'm just piping up in this thread to express my opinion about people because I'm tired of them specifically", that should be the number one indicator of a troll and a person obsessed with the debater, rather than the debate.
"Yes this happened", "No, this didn't happen", "Yes this should have an effect on outlook", "No, this shouldn't have an effect on outlook", "Yes that is shady", "No that isn't shady". Those arguments can go round and round without, "I'm just tired of this side and they're a bunch of so and so", because that is where the whole thing derails. I get infractions for posts like that, maybe I'm held to a higher standard.
I never said this issue is going to take it down and I doubt the next issue is likely to do the same. What will be the nail in the coffin for SC is the pile up of all the small issues.
Small bean issues can become massive problems in a very short time if you leave them unchecked. Issues like this are going to make people start looking harder for more issues at CIG and at some point one of these small issues could step on the wrongs persons feet and all hell could break loose.
Is the above likely to happen? I don't know since I can't predict the future but I do know that CIG does need to get their house in order or one day someone might come knocking that will do it for them and the result wont be pretty.
That depends on the nature of those issues, as well as how they're exposed. You have to create a very realistically vile scenario to get the masses paying attention. Pointing out small issues over and over again can go just as sour, just as quick.
Constantly lighting a match and calling it a fire doesn't bring more attention to things burning, it does just the opposite, it makes the likely-hood of a real fire going unchecked all the more likely.
Timing matters as well, these things always seem to pop up right on the verge of some SC milestone, be it a PTU release, an upcoming event etc...
A vile issue will get the masses attention for sure but you can alienate your audience one small fuck up at a time.
Constant missed deadlines will upset some people and they might get out as best they can Stolen art assets might upset some others and they will wipe their hands of the project The perceived greed could turn off others and they turn against the game
all small potatoes in the grand scheme of things but how many backers have you just turned off your game and how many potential backers who are sitting on the fence did you just shove off and into the do not back side?
It goes both ways sometimes with your match analogy. Some wont pay attention when a fire is raging but others will be actively looking for that fire as well (others might be the ones lighting and throwing the match lol).
Really though I'm not surprised more people aren't pissed off that CIG is touting persistence as some massive, awesome feat that they accomplished when in reality its a basic feature of just about any game on the market. Its not a vile issue but it should have people wondering what the hell is going on over there if this is some major milestone.
You can also lose your audience one mountain out of a mole hill at a time. Sensationalizing minor issues simply desensitizes some people to the point there's a good chance they'll flat out ignore you if you do bring up a major issue.
And I'm surprised so many people are pissed off at SC when as you say, its just another video game. I baffles me why some individuals devote so much time into plotting a video game's destruction as it seems like a massive waste of time and energy that could best be spent elsewhere. *shrug*
I never said this issue is going to take it down and I doubt the next issue is likely to do the same. What will be the nail in the coffin for SC is the pile up of all the small issues.
Small bean issues can become massive problems in a very short time if you leave them unchecked. Issues like this are going to make people start looking harder for more issues at CIG and at some point one of these small issues could step on the wrongs persons feet and all hell could break loose.
Is the above likely to happen? I don't know since I can't predict the future but I do know that CIG does need to get their house in order or one day someone might come knocking that will do it for them and the result wont be pretty.
That depends on the nature of those issues, as well as how they're exposed. You have to create a very realistically vile scenario to get the masses paying attention. Pointing out small issues over and over again can go just as sour, just as quick.
Constantly lighting a match and calling it a fire doesn't bring more attention to things burning, it does just the opposite, it makes the likely-hood of a real fire going unchecked all the more likely.
Timing matters as well, these things always seem to pop up right on the verge of some SC milestone, be it a PTU release, an upcoming event etc...
A vile issue will get the masses attention for sure but you can alienate your audience one small fuck up at a time.
Constant missed deadlines will upset some people and they might get out as best they can Stolen art assets might upset some others and they will wipe their hands of the project The perceived greed could turn off others and they turn against the game
all small potatoes in the grand scheme of things but how many backers have you just turned off your game and how many potential backers who are sitting on the fence did you just shove off and into the do not back side?
It goes both ways sometimes with your match analogy. Some wont pay attention when a fire is raging but others will be actively looking for that fire as well (others might be the ones lighting and throwing the match lol).
Really though I'm not surprised more people aren't pissed off that CIG is touting persistence as some massive, awesome feat that they accomplished when in reality its a basic feature of just about any game on the market. Its not a vile issue but it should have people wondering what the hell is going on over there if this is some major milestone.
You can also lose your audience one mountain out of a mole hill at a time. Sensationalizing minor issues simply desensitizes some people to the point there's a good chance they'll flat out ignore you if you do bring up a major issue.
And I'm surprised so many people are pissed off at SC when as you say, its just another video game. I baffles me why some individuals devote so much time into plotting a video game's destruction as it seems like a massive waste of time and energy that could best be spent elsewhere. *shrug*
I think that, in this case, there are three reasons for it. The first is the issue of deadlines and return on investment. Some people who are very angry are still waiting for a return on their investment from several years ago. Not only that, but they're watching their money being spent on things that they didn't sign up for like a standalone single player game with high profile, expensive MOCAP and voice actors. They were sold on an MMO and the first playable product they're getting is Wing Commander 6.
The second is pure jealousy. In the back of some people's minds they are thinking "Why won't anyone give me several hundred million dollars to pursue my passion?" Well... because you haven't put together a team and proposal probably.
The third is that destructive energy is easier to generate than creative and positive energy. It's far easier to blow up a car than build a car. The same is true conversationally. The tools needed to insult and degrade people and/or companies are easy to reach for, while the tools to think about the issue constructively and critically are difficult to come by.
And yes, I'm in the not this shit again group. It's irritating when stupid bullshit keeps getting plastered all over the forum. So why not ask more difficult questions. People throwing stones live in glass houses.
Yet you have absolutely no problem when the "stupid bullshit being posted all over the forum" are gratuitous Erillion posts several times a day which are only pasta from the official site. You have some strange, quasi-adverse-negativity bias. I mean, it's arguable DS, others and I have a negativity bias, while you and a handful of others can't seem to look away and so you reply with derision. You have little to no stake in the issue and feel it's your job to ostracize and correct us. You don't actually care about the project, you don't actually care about a moral compass, you don't actually care about an outcome. You're an obsessed anti-fan of the participants in an ongoing conflict.
[mod edit]
edit: You know, it's one thing if it's "I like the game, here's what I think and why", or "I don't like the game, here's what I think and why", but a bunch of you are the real problem with what's shitting up the forums here. It's "I don't like you because you express a negative view and I think it's my job to correct you". That's a huge separation from the actual discussion. THAT is the problem around here, not the people who post fact, for or against, a company. THAT is what needs moderated.
You're really comparing Erilion's informative posts about the game posted in the dedicated section of MMORPG with your hate saturated rants and mud throwing at everything and everyone related with SC and CIG ? Really ?
Of course his posts are transfers from the project's webpage with respected links, as it should be. Which are your info sources and links, DS's tweets aside ?
You have no access to the game as opposed to us backers hence no personal experience yet you've flooded the forums with posts regarding every aspect of the game, all of them filled with speculation, spite and blowing even the smallest issues out of proportion.
You have absolutely no moral ground to lecture others. Of course it is your right to hold yourself as better than everyone else. The problem for you is that your writings aren't gone. They are here for everyone spending some time with the search function to see and judge.
And yes, I'm in the not this shit again group. It's irritating when stupid bullshit keeps getting plastered all over the forum. So why not ask more difficult questions. People throwing stones live in glass houses.
Yet you have absolutely no problem when the "stupid bullshit being posted all over the forum" are gratuitous Erillion posts several times a day which are only pasta from the official site. You have some strange, quasi-adverse-negativity bias. I mean, it's arguable DS, others and I have a negativity bias, while you and a handful of others can't seem to look away and so you reply with derision. You have little to no stake in the issue and feel it's your job to ostracize and correct us. You don't actually care about the project, you don't actually care about a moral compass, you don't actually care about an outcome. You're an obsessed anti-fan of the participants in an ongoing conflict.
[mod edit]
edit: You know, it's one thing if it's "I like the game, here's what I think and why", or "I don't like the game, here's what I think and why", but a bunch of you are the real problem with what's shitting up the forums here. It's "I don't like you because you express a negative view and I think it's my job to correct you". That's a huge separation from the actual discussion. THAT is the problem around here, not the people who post fact, for or against, a company. THAT is what needs moderated.
You're really comparing Erilion's informative posts about the game posted in the dedicated section of MMORPG with your hate saturated rants and mud throwing at everything and everyone related with SC and CIG ? Really ?
Of course his posts are transfers from the project's webpage with respected links, as it should be. Which are your info sources and links, DS's tweets aside ?
You have no access to the game as opposed to us backers hence no personal experience yet you've flooded the forums with posts regarding every aspect of the game, all of them filled with speculation, spite and blowing even the smallest issues out of proportion.
You have absolutely no moral ground to lecture others. Of course it is your right to hold yourself as better than everyone else. The problem for you is that your writings aren't gone. They are here for everyone spending some time with the search function to see and judge.
And they're here for everyone to look back and see I've been completely right on.
edit: Face facts, Shodanas. People are waking up. Funding is down immensely, media sites are being more and more critical in warning people to wait, fan sites are folding, fewer and fewer people are streaming SC or making SC fan videos, people feel cheated, people feel disillusioned, people write posts on forums how they're embarrassed now they dragged all their friends and families into this hot mess. I'm very happy people are waking up to this for what it is. I hope the same for you.
edit: Face facts, Shodanas. People are waking up. Funding is down immensely, media sites are being more and more critical in warning people to wait, fan sites are folding, fewer and fewer people are streaming SC or making SC fan videos, people feel cheated, people feel disillusioned, people write posts on forums how they're embarrassed now they dragged all their friends and families into this hot mess. I'm very happy people are waking up to this for what it is. I hope the same for you.
Yet another chunk of well presented, solid & substantiated info about SC from Adjuvant1.
edit: Face facts, Shodanas. People are waking up. Funding is down immensely, media sites are being more and more critical in warning people to wait, fan sites are folding, fewer and fewer people are streaming SC or making SC fan videos, people feel cheated, people feel disillusioned, people write posts on forums how they're embarrassed now they dragged all their friends and families into this hot mess. I'm very happy people are waking up to this for what it is. I hope the same for you.
Yet another chunk of well presented, solid & substantiated info about SC from Adjuvant1.
Easily checked especially the funding since CIG tracks it by hour, day, week or month and you can see the down slope of funding the last 6 months. Everything else is also check able as all you have to do is go on the official forums and read posts from fans who are saying exactly what @Adjuvant1 is saying. Of course you usually need to read it before CIG locks and or deletes the thread because they don't like any form of negativity in their forums but it's there.
Your post should have been trying to refute his claims and instead you resort to snide comments which leads anyone to think that you don't have a leg to stand on and @Adjuvant1 is correct
And yes, I'm in the not this shit again group. It's irritating when stupid bullshit keeps getting plastered all over the forum. So why not ask more difficult questions. People throwing stones live in glass houses.
Yet you have absolutely no problem when the "stupid bullshit being posted all over the forum" are gratuitous Erillion posts several times a day which are only pasta from the official site. You have some strange, quasi-adverse-negativity bias. I mean, it's arguable DS, others and I have a negativity bias, while you and a handful of others can't seem to look away and so you reply with derision. You have little to no stake in the issue and feel it's your job to ostracize and correct us. You don't actually care about the project, you don't actually care about a moral compass, you don't actually care about an outcome. You're an obsessed anti-fan of the participants in an ongoing conflict.
[mod edit]
edit: You know, it's one thing if it's "I like the game, here's what I think and why", or "I don't like the game, here's what I think and why", but a bunch of you are the real problem with what's shitting up the forums here. It's "I don't like you because you express a negative view and I think it's my job to correct you". That's a huge separation from the actual discussion. THAT is the problem around here, not the people who post fact, for or against, a company. THAT is what needs moderated.
No one said they don't like you, that was obviously about the content of the posts, not you or anyone else on a personal level. You on the other hand just got personal, trying to call someone sick, telling them to go away, acting as if they're obsessed with you. That's getting personal.
Post edited by Vaross on
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
edit: Face facts, Shodanas. People are waking up. Funding is down immensely, media sites are being more and more critical in warning people to wait, fan sites are folding, fewer and fewer people are streaming SC or making SC fan videos, people feel cheated, people feel disillusioned, people write posts on forums how they're embarrassed now they dragged all their friends and families into this hot mess. I'm very happy people are waking up to this for what it is. I hope the same for you.
Yet another chunk of well presented, solid & substantiated info about SC from Adjuvant1.
Easily checked especially the funding since CIG tracks it by hour, day, week or month and you can see the down slope of funding the last 6 months. Everything else is also check able as all you have to do is go on the official forums and read posts from fans who are saying exactly what @Adjuvant1 is saying. Of course you usually need to read it before CIG locks and or deletes the thread because they don't like any form of negativity in their forums but it's there.
Your post should have been trying to refute his claims and instead you resort to snide comments which leads anyone to think that you don't have a leg to stand on and @Adjuvant1 is correct
Can you please direct me to one crowdfunded game where funding goes the same pace from day 1 to 3+ years into development ? Or one which scores 1M+ per month in the same time frame ? Of course we would see a down slope especially since the stretch goals where finalized. This is how funding works.
Now, let's see about them posts on the official forums. I have the forums in an adjacent tab and i'm searching... one, two, three, four, five, six.. and done. Six threads in 76.6K discussions and 3 million posts !
As i said, well presented, solid & substantiated info about SC..
NOTE: regarding the posts i stopped at page 55. Out of the six postings 4 are just concerned backers and 2 predict doom. If you two have the time you can go through all 2550 + pages and pick your flavor posts.
@Adjuvant1 People can be even MORE illogical than you think. CIG planned to stop adding new stretch goals sooner. But due to strong backer demand for more on the forums they kept going for another half a year more. Only then CIG finally stopped - apologizing to the backers for doing so.
Have fun
lolol..it's called company strategy.
Infiltrate the community and then demand more stretch goals aka demand more things that cost money to do, that way we justify our pillage as the "fans" asking for "more"
EDIT: It makes no sense for backers to ask for more when they have yet to receive the1st thing. To me it makes sense to ask for the main thing 1st.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
I guess you can believe they don't delete posts from both the official site and reddit which depict too negative of view. I guess you can believe they don't ban people from expressing genuine disapproval and dismissing it as "spread fear, uncertainty, doubt". (They actually have an acronym, FUD) I guess if you look today, after all the edits, bans and abridgements you can say everyone feels great about all of this and no one sees anything wrong. That is your evidence, what's left after all the censorship and collective bandwagoning.
The company's agitprop has been discussed here before, numerous times. It's easy to toss it all aside and say it never happened, or it was just silly people, or it was some conspiracy...
From most of the people on that page, you'll never read words on official outlets again. That's just a couple weeks-worth, because someone decided to actually preserve evidence of the filtering. Just that one link shows it's more than seven posts or threads or whatever you think you're saying. You're stating a falsehood to say it doesn't exist, that it hasn't existed, and you're being disingenuous to imply it's such a small percentage.
I'm sure this, to your portrayal, doesn't count as proof, but for anyone reading this, all it's going to take is to see it's still happening, to witness one reddit thread removed, to see one fed-up person banned, it will continue to happen, because CIG preys on those who only buy into positive propaganda, new customers who aren't aware of the company's past. You help them project this. You're responsible to each and every new, unaware "customer", just as much as CIG, when you bury the truth or cast the truth aside.
And I'm surprised so many people are pissed off at SC when as you say, its just another video game. I baffles me why some individuals devote so much time into plotting a video game's destruction as it seems like a massive waste of time and energy that could best be spent elsewhere. *shrug*
It has moved completely into the realm of bizarre and creepy.
I guess you can believe they don't delete posts from both the official site and reddit which depict too negative of view. I guess you can believe they don't ban people from expressing genuine disapproval and dismissing it as "spread fear, uncertainty, doubt". (They actually have an acronym, FUD) I guess if you look today, after all the edits, bans and abridgements you can say everyone feels great about all of this and no one sees anything wrong. That is your evidence, what's left after all the censorship and collective bandwagoning.
That practice has been pretty frequent in this industry for quite a while, most companies do it to varying degrees. Few companies I know of allow overly negative discussion on their official forums, or in places they have an official presence be it Reddit, steam, etc...
While it might seem draconian, it's not like it doesn't make sense in the grand scheme, they're selling something, if the power is in their hands to stifle negative outlook, they're going to smother it to the best of their ability.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Haven't they been taking punitive action against people who have been saying stuff outside of their forum's?
“Nevertheless, the human brain, which survives by hoping from one second to another, will always endeavor to put off the moment of truth. Moist” ― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
Haven't they been taking punitive action against people who have been saying stuff outside of their forum's?
CIG famously banned a user, Beer4thebeergod, including personal letters from upper management, last Oct ( ? ) for being a contributor on SA.com. CIG has made a public practice of reading "trouble-maker" RSI site private messages and banning people who give info how to get refunds. That's the stuff I could easily dig up.
You can also lose your audience one mountain out of a mole hill at a time. Sensationalizing minor issues simply desensitizes some people to the point there's a good chance they'll flat out ignore you if you do bring up a major issue.
And I'm surprised so many people are pissed off at SC when as you say, its just another video game. I baffles me why some individuals devote so much time into plotting a video game's destruction as it seems like a massive waste of time and energy that could best be spent elsewhere. *shrug*
I'm not sure which is worse, a universe where everyone is talking about corporations doing things like this or a universe where no-one is talking about it.
A universe where the vendetta is subjectively applied to one individual or entity in the name of broader social justice. A universe where we only talk about and point out one entity in the criticism. A universe where a malicious group relentlessly hounds a specific person or group until they're taken down or fail. That's the worse universe.
You're still painting this as a personal "vendetta" or, stopping just short of outright stating it, a smear campaign. Personally, I didn't find that this thread took that tack prior to your distracting comments about avatars and how everything is either theft or not theft. I'm not intending to blame you, but those comments tend to conflate the issue and cause things to veer toward emotional drama. Perhaps it would have happened eventually, so if not you, someone else. That's the way these threads tend to go, it seems. Hence my comment about everyone talking about it versus no-one talking about it. Just worth mentioning that things were (in the loosest term) relatively on point, for the first couple pages (although it seems Vaross did have to step in).
If CIG is drawing criticism for not following due diligence, inadvertently violating copyright for commercial use, they have only themselves to blame. It's an interesting issue with more than one dimension, and it might be worth discussing if we could leave the emotional side out of it. It seems as though you are taking exception to the topic being discussed at all.
Leaving the past behind (which is sure to derail us even further), do you think CIG's blunder in this case is better off not being discussed, and if so, why?
From my limited understanding, copyright is not "a binary law". There is dimensionality to it (e.g. copyrights are often phrased in purposefully vague language so as to 'leave the door open' to litigation. This instance is more so interesting for me as it's an actor's image). This is going from the business legal environment course I completed several years ago, so I'm open to being schooled on this. It's an interesting discussion point for me personally, as it's a rare, apropos intersection between my business masters and gaming hobby. Not really any more so than the Rockstar case that happened a while back, I just find myself better disposed for discussion, now. I basically agree with Iselin, that commercial use is a different fish, but I'm interested in learning.
Furthermore, it's my personal philosophy that corporations ought to be held to even higher standards than individuals. Talking about corporate behavior on an unafilliated web board for those who are interested, at best, can be a learning experience and a way to exchange perspectives.
With apology, CIG has provided lots of source material. For what it's worth, I'd like to see them succeed.
Post edited by Phaserlight on
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
I will give you a friendly advise about being extra careful who you quote and link to.
You see this guy was caught using entire blocks of a press release from Bioware, and by using i mean copy - pasted, in order to promote Alganon back in 2010. Of course he shifted the blame to a subordinate and went on doing his stuff. And of course being the individual he is he has the nerve to point fingers and lecture others. Luckily not all people have the memory capacity of a goldfish as he presumes.
You know that's 100% false. But don't let that stop you from using falsehoods to promote an agenda, while employing the usual deflecting tactic to derail the OPs thread.
Then you tell someone to be careful what they link to, while trying to shut them down and not providing any proof of link of anything you've stated. And you have nothing to link to because it's false.
Anytime someone points out something about CIG or Star Citizen, you guys yell "Derek Smart". It's getting old now. STICK TO THE TOPIC!!
Promoting a vendetta ? hahaha, that's a bit hypocritical, what do you call what you have been doing for so long with Star Citizen, if this isn't a vendetta, I don't know what is ?
Promoting a vendetta ? hahaha, that's a bit hypocritical, what do you call what you have been doing for so long with Star Citizen, if this isn't a vendetta, I don't know what is ?
Promoting a vendetta ? hahaha, that's a bit hypocritical, what do you call what you have been doing for so long with Star Citizen, if this isn't a vendetta, I don't know what is ?
And as much as some want to diminish, condemn, ridicule, Star Citizen the game is still going to be developed whether they like it or not. I also believe there is a vast amount of jealousy involved in this project and I think it's pety and childish.....
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Which tells me you asked something, but were absolutely NOT interested in getting a verifyable answer.
Rhetoric questions FTW, neh?
Have fun
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
[mod edit]
edit: You know, it's one thing if it's "I like the game, here's what I think and why", or "I don't like the game, here's what I think and why", but a bunch of you are the real problem with what's shitting up the forums here. It's "I don't like you because you express a negative view and I think it's my job to correct you". That's a huge separation from the actual discussion. THAT is the problem around here, not the people who post fact, for or against, a company. THAT is what needs moderated.
Luckily so far the forum mods here at MMORPG are doing an OK job I noticed that a few people's posts seem to have been removed from this thread and they've been banned.
― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
"Yes this happened", "No, this didn't happen", "Yes this should have an effect on outlook", "No, this shouldn't have an effect on outlook", "Yes that is shady", "No that isn't shady". Those arguments can go round and round without, "I'm just tired of this side and they're a bunch of so and so", because that is where the whole thing derails. I get infractions for posts like that, maybe I'm held to a higher standard.
The second is pure jealousy. In the back of some people's minds they are thinking "Why won't anyone give me several hundred million dollars to pursue my passion?" Well... because you haven't put together a team and proposal probably.
The third is that destructive energy is easier to generate than creative and positive energy. It's far easier to blow up a car than build a car. The same is true conversationally. The tools needed to insult and degrade people and/or companies are easy to reach for, while the tools to think about the issue constructively and critically are difficult to come by.
Of course his posts are transfers from the project's webpage with respected links, as it should be. Which are your info sources and links, DS's tweets aside ?
You have no access to the game as opposed to us backers hence no personal experience yet you've flooded the forums with posts regarding every aspect of the game, all of them filled with speculation, spite and blowing even the smallest issues out of proportion.
You have absolutely no moral ground to lecture others. Of course it is your right to hold yourself as better than everyone else. The problem for you is that your writings aren't gone. They are here for everyone spending some time with the search function to see and judge.
edit: Face facts, Shodanas. People are waking up. Funding is down immensely, media sites are being more and more critical in warning people to wait, fan sites are folding, fewer and fewer people are streaming SC or making SC fan videos, people feel cheated, people feel disillusioned, people write posts on forums how they're embarrassed now they dragged all their friends and families into this hot mess. I'm very happy people are waking up to this for what it is. I hope the same for you.
Your post should have been trying to refute his claims and instead you resort to snide comments which leads anyone to think that you don't have a leg to stand on and @Adjuvant1 is correct
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Now, let's see about them posts on the official forums. I have the forums in an adjacent tab and i'm searching... one, two, three, four, five, six.. and done. Six threads in 76.6K discussions and 3 million posts !
As i said, well presented, solid & substantiated info about SC..
NOTE: regarding the posts i stopped at page 55. Out of the six postings 4 are just concerned backers and 2 predict doom. If you two have the time you can go through all 2550 + pages and pick your flavor posts.
Infiltrate the community and then demand more stretch goals aka demand more things that cost money to do, that way we justify our pillage as the "fans" asking for "more"
EDIT: It makes no sense for backers to ask for more when they have yet to receive the1st thing. To me it makes sense to ask for the main thing 1st.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
The company's agitprop has been discussed here before, numerous times. It's easy to toss it all aside and say it never happened, or it was just silly people, or it was some conspiracy...
https://neckbeardhustle.wordpress.com/
From most of the people on that page, you'll never read words on official outlets again. That's just a couple weeks-worth, because someone decided to actually preserve evidence of the filtering. Just that one link shows it's more than seven posts or threads or whatever you think you're saying. You're stating a falsehood to say it doesn't exist, that it hasn't existed, and you're being disingenuous to imply it's such a small percentage.
I'm sure this, to your portrayal, doesn't count as proof, but for anyone reading this, all it's going to take is to see it's still happening, to witness one reddit thread removed, to see one fed-up person banned, it will continue to happen, because CIG preys on those who only buy into positive propaganda, new customers who aren't aware of the company's past. You help them project this. You're responsible to each and every new, unaware "customer", just as much as CIG, when you bury the truth or cast the truth aside.
Life IS Feudal
While it might seem draconian, it's not like it doesn't make sense in the grand scheme, they're selling something, if the power is in their hands to stifle negative outlook, they're going to smother it to the best of their ability.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
https://twitter.com/beer4thebeergod
If CIG is drawing criticism for not following due diligence, inadvertently violating copyright for commercial use, they have only themselves to blame. It's an interesting issue with more than one dimension, and it might be worth discussing if we could leave the emotional side out of it. It seems as though you are taking exception to the topic being discussed at all.
Leaving the past behind (which is sure to derail us even further), do you think CIG's blunder in this case is better off not being discussed, and if so, why?
From my limited understanding, copyright is not "a binary law". There is dimensionality to it (e.g. copyrights are often phrased in purposefully vague language so as to 'leave the door open' to litigation. This instance is more so interesting for me as it's an actor's image). This is going from the business legal environment course I completed several years ago, so I'm open to being schooled on this. It's an interesting discussion point for me personally, as it's a rare, apropos intersection between my business masters and gaming hobby. Not really any more so than the Rockstar case that happened a while back, I just find myself better disposed for discussion, now. I basically agree with Iselin, that commercial use is a different fish, but I'm interested in learning.
Furthermore, it's my personal philosophy that corporations ought to be held to even higher standards than individuals. Talking about corporate behavior on an unafilliated web board for those who are interested, at best, can be a learning experience and a way to exchange perspectives.
With apology, CIG has provided lots of source material. For what it's worth, I'd like to see them succeed.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
But back to the premise at hand.
f00% False you say ?
Then what about this Mr. Smart: https://www.engadget.com/2010/05/08/alganon-steals-press-release-format-from-bioware/
That looks pretty factual to me.
I will leave you with this quote: People who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones....