Yes, like the Illusion flasks, Ring of the Fallen, Tunic of the Ages, Explorer's Backpack, rename vouchers, additional character slots, and in-game titles...you know, those items wrapped up in a non-cash shop crowdfunded "package"...
What's that? Oh, it's just the distant sound of a few people in this thread clicking their heels together saying, "It's not a cash shop. It's not a cash shop. It's not a cash shop."
Then...
"Wait. I clicked my heels together three times just like they said! The cash shop items haven't turned into something else! These magic slippers are defective!"
No matter how hard you want to make novelty items available only in pledge packages into something that will impact gameplay post launch, it isn't going to work.
If what is being sold does not provide players with an advantage in game, or the ability to convert their real life money into in-game currency, it simply isn't a "cash shop" as we currently know them.
Yes, like the Illusion flasks, Ring of the Fallen, Tunic of the Ages, Explorer's Backpack, rename vouchers, additional character slots, and in-game titles...you know, those items wrapped up in a non-cash shop crowdfunded "package"...
What's that? Oh, it's just the distant sound of a few people in this thread clicking their heels together saying, "It's not a cash shop. It's not a cash shop. It's not a cash shop."
Then...
"Wait. I clicked my heels together three times just like they said! The cash shop items haven't turned into something else! These magic slippers are defective!"
No matter how hard you want to make novelty items available only in pledge packages into something that will impact gameplay post launch, it isn't going to work.
If what is being sold does not provide players with an advantage in game, or the ability to convert their real life money into in-game currency, it simply isn't a "cash shop" as we currently know them.
Keep telling yourself that buddy if it makes you feel better about the cash shop that is not a cash shop. lol
Keep telling yourself that buddy if it makes you feel better about the cash shop that is not a cash shop. lol
The only one redefining things and trying to convince themselves here is you.
If come launch, Visionary Realms is actually selling tradeable subscription tokens, experience potions, consumables or even vanity items (that should be obtained in-game), I would be the first one to object and bash it (as well as cancel my subscription).
Any item that says "In-Game Item" when you mouseover like the pet, backpack, etc.
The $500 tier, in the upper right corner, says "REAL LOOT!" in caps.
I don't mind any of that, but don't pretend it's not there either. Do
you expect them not to sell that stuff after launch? Is that a fair
expectation considering the target demographic? Is it a realistic expectation for VR that they continue to sell that stuff when their core audience doesn't like microtransactions.
It's also not fair to people reading your posts, as a super fan of the game, for you to say they don't have a cash shop when they currently do.
I asked on the official forums. None of the rewards give any combat enhancements or stats. Real loot is something you can hold in RL. Like I said educate yourself. In game items break down to being toys. Also I thought you were smart enough to understand the difference between an on going cash shop and a few trinkets being handed out on one char for people who supported the game. The impact on a MMO that lasts 10 years plus means nothing.
Again I say, there is no cash shop. This game is about displaying the rare items you earned in game. Each with a story, just by looking at someones character you will know where they have been. Done.
If you think for one second that this game isn't going to fall prey to the same old early access greed we've been seeing, then this is your first week playing 2010+ MMOs.
Once Brad realizes how many more morons he can get to plop down $10k, the shopping mall will officially open. Watching the business model unfold is like watching reruns of Star Citizen and Shroud of the Avatar all over again. It's only a matter of time.
Can't wait to see the outrage machine dialed up to eleven once the clueless fanboys are forced to stop believing their own bullshit and choke down a nice big gulp of reality.
I really should start stocking up on popcorn soon.
Vanguard was the last game I bought into the hype for......Luckily I got into beta late and saw what a disaster it was and didnt invest in it....I have no idea on this game but my hopes arent up...if it turns out good then its a pleasant surprise....msot of the screenshots I've soon look pretty dated though for a 2017 or later game...... It looks like something made in early 2000s.
Yeah but it's an indy game. There's no way it's going to compete with studios that have millions to throw at graphics.
Anyone purchasing this game needs to know that and needs to be on board with that. I strongly suspect the fans of this game (or at least fans of what we know) will have made their peace with that.
exactly! it's a low budget indie, need to accept that fact or just forget about this one.
If you think for one second that this game isn't going to fall prey to the same old early access greed we've been seeing, then this is your first week playing 2010+ MMOs.
Once Brad realizes how many more morons he can get to plop down $10k, the shopping mall will officially open. Watching the business model unfold is like watching reruns of Star Citizen and Shroud of the Avatar all over again. It's only a matter of time.
Can't wait to see the outrage machine dialed up to eleven once the clueless fanboys are forced to stop believing their own bullshit and choke down a nice big gulp of reality.
I really should start stocking up on popcorn soon.
I take people at their word till they say or do otherwise. Also Brad has nothing to do with the business end of things.
Myself I'm excited for a MMO that's doing B2P with a sub and no cash shop. I find it refreshing. Been a long time since everything you see in game will have been earned by a player somehow.
So no crowd funded or early access exclusives? No exclusive "collector" digital stuff with a premium box fee or pre-purchase? I haven't seen that since Lineage. EQ and EQ2 used to do that all the time. Same with LotRO, GW, and every MMO I've played since then. No digital extras for real money is a really rare thing.
Welcome to the new age of MMO shopping malls. Maybe they'll sell some of that Ruggsville fried chicken just for you. ;-)
Nanfoodle said they didn't have a cash shop. But they do have a cash shop, it's just on their website. It's so hard to have an honest real discussion about a game here when people post doublespeak crap like that.
Crowdfund packages with items is not a "cash shop." This is indeed doublespeak
If you're selling anything but game access it's a cash shop. It doesn't matter where you're selling it. This is just like the WoW and FF14 fanboys who bullshit about not having a cash shop.
You're just lying to yourselves and everyone else with your "alt-facts". It doesn't matter if the interface is in the game, on a website, or someplace else. RMT and microtransactions aren't dependent on the interface.
It's okay that they're doing it. I think MMOs, especially indie prerelease projects, need to look closely at how to monetize and fund. The traditional "one off" crowd funding campaign or methods AAA publishers use aren't going to work.
But be honest about what is happening and how it's happening. Nanfoodle is trying to sell the package as different, implying some underlying integrity that doesn't exist elsewhere, when it's not different. It's a hype lie. Stop lying.
Adding in game items to sweeten early access or types of packages (CE comes to mind) has never been considered a "cash shop." Both you and @Postlarval know this as individuals who have been around the genre for some time. If you want to look at them that way, fair enough, feelings and different views are of course subjective.
Many definitions have been argued as meaning something different, take the term MMORPG for example. This seems to be one of those times. If VR ever has a shop with items not included with access to the game then I would agree it's a cash shop.
They're just selling thegame content just like Pantheon.
False.
How much do you want to bet that these items will be in a cash shop post launch (within 6 months) when the population levels out. So many mmos do this with pre-launch digital goods. They'll add it next to their additional character slots service as an account upgrade. Or sell the pieces individually.
I'm sure when the time comes and it appears in Pantheon. The fans of this mmo will just say "every mmo does it, it's no big deal and they don't sell power!".
Myself I'm excited for a MMO that's doing B2P with a sub and no cash shop. I find it refreshing. Been a long time since everything you see in game will have been earned by a player somehow.
So no crowd funded or early access exclusives? No exclusive "collector" digital stuff with a premium box fee or pre-purchase? I haven't seen that since Lineage. EQ and EQ2 used to do that all the time. Same with LotRO, GW, and every MMO I've played since then. No digital extras for real money is a really rare thing.
Welcome to the new age of MMO shopping malls. Maybe they'll sell some of that Ruggsville fried chicken just for you. ;-)
Nanfoodle said they didn't have a cash shop. But they do have a cash shop, it's just on their website. It's so hard to have an honest real discussion about a game here when people post doublespeak crap like that.
Crowdfund packages with items is not a "cash shop." This is indeed doublespeak
If you're selling anything but game access it's a cash shop. It doesn't matter where you're selling it. This is just like the WoW and FF14 fanboys who bullshit about not having a cash shop.
You're just lying to yourselves and everyone else with your "alt-facts". It doesn't matter if the interface is in the game, on a website, or someplace else. RMT and microtransactions aren't dependent on the interface.
It's okay that they're doing it. I think MMOs, especially indie prerelease projects, need to look closely at how to monetize and fund. The traditional "one off" crowd funding campaign or methods AAA publishers use aren't going to work.
But be honest about what is happening and how it's happening. Nanfoodle is trying to sell the package as different, implying some underlying integrity that doesn't exist elsewhere, when it's not different. It's a hype lie. Stop lying.
Adding in game items to sweeten early access or types of packages (CE comes to mind) has never been considered a "cash shop." Both you and @Postlarval know this as individuals who have been around the genre for some time. If you want to look at them that way, fair enough, feelings and different views are of course subjective.
Many definitions have been argued as meaning something different, take the term MMORPG for example. This seems to be one of those times. If VR ever has a shop with items not included with access to the game then I would agree it's a cash shop.
Right, if you sell your RMT microtransactions outside of a "cash" "shop" then it's all okay and doesn't count (like if you pull out early).
It's always convenient when you get to pick and choose when the rules apply. So a coined termed mmorpg matters, but an actual definition of selling digital items for real cash is ambiguous and amorphous. When your pet project sells them it's understandable. When others do it you people are glad your game doesn't have a cash shop and you earn all items in game (except when you don't).
Fine, you guys have fun in your not cash shop microtransaction world. Keep that echo chamber going.
Exactly, it's not a "microtransaction" as it's not sold separately from the retail box. Honestly it doesn't matter to me whether you consider box purchase perks part of a cash shop. What I took umbrage with was calling Nan liar when he wasn't lying, due to box perks not traditionally being considered a cash shop.
Even if Pantheon does end up selling separate things other than perks with box copies I personally don't care unless it's statistical gain and/or predatory model such as RNG packs...
They're just selling thegame content just like Pantheon.
False.
How much do you want to bet that these items will be in a cash shop post launch (within 6 months) when the population levels out. So many mmos do this with pre-launch digital goods. They'll add it next to their additional character slots service as an account upgrade. Or sell the pieces individually.
I'm sure when the time comes and it appears in Pantheon. The fans of this mmo will just say "every mmo does it, it's no big deal and they don't sell power!".
it better not, that's why we are paying a sub. i'm pretty sure i read there will not be a cash shop and if they do that they better go B2P like ESO did.
Myself I'm excited for a MMO that's doing B2P with a sub and no cash shop. I find it refreshing. Been a long time since everything you see in game will have been earned by a player somehow.
So no crowd funded or early access exclusives? No exclusive "collector" digital stuff with a premium box fee or pre-purchase? I haven't seen that since Lineage. EQ and EQ2 used to do that all the time. Same with LotRO, GW, and every MMO I've played since then. No digital extras for real money is a really rare thing.
Welcome to the new age of MMO shopping malls. Maybe they'll sell some of that Ruggsville fried chicken just for you. ;-)
Nanfoodle said they didn't have a cash shop. But they do have a cash shop, it's just on their website. It's so hard to have an honest real discussion about a game here when people post doublespeak crap like that.
Crowdfund packages with items is not a "cash shop." This is indeed doublespeak
If you're selling anything but game access it's a cash shop. It doesn't matter where you're selling it. This is just like the WoW and FF14 fanboys who bullshit about not having a cash shop.
You're just lying to yourselves and everyone else with your "alt-facts". It doesn't matter if the interface is in the game, on a website, or someplace else. RMT and microtransactions aren't dependent on the interface.
It's okay that they're doing it. I think MMOs, especially indie prerelease projects, need to look closely at how to monetize and fund. The traditional "one off" crowd funding campaign or methods AAA publishers use aren't going to work.
But be honest about what is happening and how it's happening. Nanfoodle is trying to sell the package as different, implying some underlying integrity that doesn't exist elsewhere, when it's not different. It's a hype lie. Stop lying.
Adding in game items to sweeten early access or types of packages (CE comes to mind) has never been considered a "cash shop." Both you and @Postlarval know this as individuals who have been around the genre for some time. If you want to look at them that way, fair enough, feelings and different views are of course subjective.
Many definitions have been argued as meaning something different, take the term MMORPG for example. This seems to be one of those times. If VR ever has a shop with items not included with access to the game then I would agree it's a cash shop.
Right, if you sell your RMT microtransactions outside of a "cash" "shop" then it's all okay and doesn't count (like if you pull out early).
It's always convenient when you get to pick and choose when the rules apply. So a coined termed mmorpg matters, but an actual definition of selling digital items for real cash is ambiguous and amorphous. When your pet project sells them it's understandable. When others do it you people are glad your game doesn't have a cash shop and you earn all items in game (except when you don't).
Fine, you guys have fun in your not cash shop microtransaction world. Keep that echo chamber going.
to me, if those items are available to purchase after the game launches, then it's a cash shop. they need help funding the game and that's how they are doing it, i see nothing wrong with that.
i don't see how that's the same as a cash shop and i also don't see where the rage is coming from since you apparently are not against it?
They're just selling thegame content just like Pantheon.
False.
How much do you want to bet that these items will be in a cash shop post launch (within 6 months) when the population levels out. So many mmos do this with pre-launch digital goods. They'll add it next to their additional character slots service as an account upgrade. Or sell the pieces individually.
I'm sure when the time comes and it appears in Pantheon. The fans of this mmo will just say "every mmo does it, it's no big deal and they don't sell power!".
it better not, that's why we are paying a sub. i'm pretty sure i read there will not be a cash shop and if they do that they better go B2P like ESO did.
Well remember, other mmos also said this. FF14 and WoW are B2P + Sub + CS. I know FF14 in the beginning said no cash shop, but that changed. My point was that if population dips (like every mmo experiences) this will be one of the first steps if it's not planned already. Personally, I wouldn't care but for those that are backing/following this with the hope and/or promise of no cash shop. Well, I hope they enjoy the game enough that once it comes out they won't care as long as they are entertained. It's inevitable.
No knock on this mmo. I hope it launches and is lots of fun. But I like to keep reality above my hopes and expectations.
Seems to me that certain people can't get over the fact the game looks like it's coming out. On top of that they are made because Pantheon is not following your typical mmo of today.
Myself I'm excited for a MMO that's doing B2P with a sub and no cash shop. I find it refreshing. Been a long time since everything you see in game will have been earned by a player somehow.
So no crowd funded or early access exclusives? No exclusive "collector" digital stuff with a premium box fee or pre-purchase? I haven't seen that since Lineage. EQ and EQ2 used to do that all the time. Same with LotRO, GW, and every MMO I've played since then. No digital extras for real money is a really rare thing.
None of it add stats. Nothing to help combat. They are just some toys you can use on your first char for pledging. Nothing like the cash shops we see in MMOs where you can even buy in game gold.
Yep, I should have noted that. Thanks!
Per VR "All of the items are cosmetic only and have no in-game stats or advantages, they are just for pride/display to show you were here first and helped us get the game to where it is, one way for us to say thank you that you can show off in-game "
Either way, I'd prefer that there not be a store at all. Even the cosmetic crap...I'm on the fence about special edition box stuff, but I used to grab those because of the art books, now those are even just downloads,
They're just selling thegame content just like Pantheon.
False.
How much do you want to bet that these items will be in a cash shop post launch (within 6 months) when the population levels out. So many mmos do this with pre-launch digital goods. They'll add it next to their additional character slots service as an account upgrade. Or sell the pieces individually.
I'm sure when the time comes and it appears in Pantheon. The fans of this mmo will just say "every mmo does it, it's no big deal and they don't sell power!".
it better not, that's why we are paying a sub. i'm pretty sure i read there will not be a cash shop and if they do that they better go B2P like ESO did.
Well remember, other mmos also said this. FF14 and WoW are B2P + Sub + CS. I know FF14 in the beginning said no cash shop, but that changed. My point was that if population dips (like every mmo experiences) this will be one of the first steps if it's not planned already. Personally, I wouldn't care but for those that are backing/following this with the hope and/or promise of no cash shop. Well, I hope they enjoy the game enough that once it comes out they won't care as long as they are entertained. It's inevitable.
No knock on this mmo. I hope it launches and is lots of fun. But I like to keep reality above my hopes and expectations.
What if and maybe is your stand. Fact, right now the devs have said no cash shop. They will be funding the game with a B2P + Sub model. Thats the facts till we hear otherwise, this only muddies the facts. If the devs tell us different, then we will adjust. For now this is what we have.
Pantheon's fanbase will be far less forgiving should they decide to open your typical cash shop where players can buy power, and resell it to others for virtual profits.
Pantheon's fanbase will be far less forgiving should they decide to open your typical cash shop where players can buy power, and resell it to others for virtual profits.
I have gotten used to cash shops. If they are fair I can live with them. I would rather VR didnt add one but I would not leave the game if they did one in a fair way. For now we have to go on the devs words, this thread has turned into semantics. It does nothing for no one. Ok, so a few of you think a few toys handed out to people who supported the game should remove the label of a no cash shop game and the rest of us think that you are looking at this with blinders on. So not looking at the whole picture.
The difference. On one side you have fans talking about a game they are supporting. On the other, just hate for the sake of hate. This coming from posters I thought more of... That saddens me.
Pantheon's fanbase will be far less forgiving should they decide to open your typical cash shop where players can buy power, and resell it to others for virtual profits.
This is certainly true for current fanbase.
As Pantheon gets closer to release and the fanbase gets expanded by relaxing some original concepts and making Pantheon more appealing to casual players, suddenly the original fanbase could become a minority.
Then the cash shop alienation of original fanbase becomes a lot less of a problem.
I am not saying that this will happen, but its a possible scenario.
Its also possible a new fan base will come in and do so because they are sick of the cash shops, pay walls and micro transactions flooding the gaming market. Think how attractive that my 15 bucks a month gives me access to everything in the game. The same footing everyone will have. Maybe... or maybe. No maybe. Ya who knows.
Pantheon's original fanbase is what will keep this game operating. The flavor of the month crowd will not sustain a game outside of the mainstream without a massive marketing budget.
I think a shop that sells anything more than copies of the game, xfers, char slots etc, would be a fatal mistake for Pantheon in the long run.
Comments
No matter how hard you want to make novelty items available only in pledge packages into something that will impact gameplay post launch, it isn't going to work.
If what is being sold does not provide players with an advantage in game, or the ability to convert their real life money into in-game currency, it simply isn't a "cash shop" as we currently know them.
Keep telling yourself that buddy if it makes you feel better about the cash shop that is not a cash shop. lol
~~ postlarval ~~
If come launch, Visionary Realms is actually selling tradeable subscription tokens, experience potions, consumables or even vanity items (that should be obtained in-game), I would be the first one to object and bash it (as well as cancel my subscription).
Fortunately, that is clearly not the case.
I asked on the official forums. None of the rewards give any combat enhancements or stats. Real loot is something you can hold in RL. Like I said educate yourself. In game items break down to being toys. Also I thought you were smart enough to understand the difference between an on going cash shop and a few trinkets being handed out on one char for people who supported the game. The impact on a MMO that lasts 10 years plus means nothing.
Again I say, there is no cash shop. This game is about displaying the rare items you earned in game. Each with a story, just by looking at someones character you will know where they have been. Done.
Once Brad realizes how many more morons he can get to plop down $10k, the shopping mall will officially open. Watching the business model unfold is like watching reruns of Star Citizen and Shroud of the Avatar all over again. It's only a matter of time.
Can't wait to see the outrage machine dialed up to eleven once the clueless fanboys are forced to stop believing their own bullshit and choke down a nice big gulp of reality.
I really should start stocking up on popcorn soon.
~~ postlarval ~~
exactly! it's a low budget indie, need to accept that fact or just forget about this one.
I take people at their word till they say or do otherwise. Also Brad has nothing to do with the business end of things.
Adding in game items to sweeten early access or types of packages (CE comes to mind) has never been considered a "cash shop." Both you and @Postlarval know this as individuals who have been around the genre for some time. If you want to look at them that way, fair enough, feelings and different views are of course subjective.
Many definitions have been argued as meaning something different, take the term MMORPG for example. This seems to be one of those times. If VR ever has a shop with items not included with access to the game then I would agree it's a cash shop.
That's just selling copies of the game.
How much do you want to bet that these items will be in a cash shop post launch (within 6 months) when the population levels out. So many mmos do this with pre-launch digital goods. They'll add it next to their additional character slots service as an account upgrade. Or sell the pieces individually.
I'm sure when the time comes and it appears in Pantheon. The fans of this mmo will just say "every mmo does it, it's no big deal and they don't sell power!".
Exactly, it's not a "microtransaction" as it's not sold separately from the retail box. Honestly it doesn't matter to me whether you consider box purchase perks part of a cash shop. What I took umbrage with was calling Nan liar when he wasn't lying, due to box perks not traditionally being considered a cash shop.
Even if Pantheon does end up selling separate things other than perks with box copies I personally don't care unless it's statistical gain and/or predatory model such as RNG packs...
it better not, that's why we are paying a sub. i'm pretty sure i read there will not be a cash shop and if they do that they better go B2P like ESO did.
to me, if those items are available to purchase after the game launches, then it's a cash shop. they need help funding the game and that's how they are doing it, i see nothing wrong with that.
i don't see how that's the same as a cash shop and i also don't see where the rage is coming from since you apparently are not against it?
Well remember, other mmos also said this. FF14 and WoW are B2P + Sub + CS. I know FF14 in the beginning said no cash shop, but that changed. My point was that if population dips (like every mmo experiences) this will be one of the first steps if it's not planned already. Personally, I wouldn't care but for those that are backing/following this with the hope and/or promise of no cash shop. Well, I hope they enjoy the game enough that once it comes out they won't care as long as they are entertained. It's inevitable.
No knock on this mmo. I hope it launches and is lots of fun. But I like to keep reality above my hopes and expectations.
Yep, I should have noted that. Thanks!
Per VR "All of the items are cosmetic only and have no in-game stats or advantages, they are just for pride/display to show you were here first and helped us get the game to where it is, one way for us to say thank you that you can show off in-game
Either way, I'd prefer that there not be a store at all. Even the cosmetic crap...I'm on the fence about special edition box stuff, but I used to grab those because of the art books, now those are even just downloads,
Caseyx
What if and maybe is your stand. Fact, right now the devs have said no cash shop. They will be funding the game with a B2P + Sub model. Thats the facts till we hear otherwise, this only muddies the facts. If the devs tell us different, then we will adjust. For now this is what we have.
Pantheon's fanbase will be far less forgiving should they decide to open your typical cash shop where players can buy power, and resell it to others for virtual profits.
I have gotten used to cash shops. If they are fair I can live with them. I would rather VR didnt add one but I would not leave the game if they did one in a fair way. For now we have to go on the devs words, this thread has turned into semantics. It does nothing for no one. Ok, so a few of you think a few toys handed out to people who supported the game should remove the label of a no cash shop game and the rest of us think that you are looking at this with blinders on. So not looking at the whole picture.
The difference. On one side you have fans talking about a game they are supporting. On the other, just hate for the sake of hate. This coming from posters I thought more of... That saddens me.
Its also possible a new fan base will come in and do so because they are sick of the cash shops, pay walls and micro transactions flooding the gaming market. Think how attractive that my 15 bucks a month gives me access to everything in the game. The same footing everyone will have. Maybe... or maybe. No maybe. Ya who knows.
I think a shop that sells anything more than copies of the game, xfers, char slots etc, would be a fatal mistake for Pantheon in the long run.