IMO when people speak out against cash shops they just mean the games where you get a leg up by paying money. Almost no one complains about selling items that dont affect game play.
So, you don't consider having the nicest costume or most interesting cosmetic pet as "a leg up". Others might. If that cosmetic is obtained from a transaction involving real cash for an in-game item, that is a cash shop, no matter how it is termed. People wish to differentiate a 'purchase' from a 'pledge reward', but if your bank account is lighter, you've paid for an e-item, no matter what you choose to call the interface that took your money. Semantics won't change that fact.
There is no semantics. The items being given out are charged based click items. With limited charges. They will not impact the game long term. If they have some cosmetic effect again no big deal if you get the game Pantheon is. Much like in the days of EQ1, showing off where you have been and what you have earned will be a big part of the game. When people see your Bard in full Blue Lambent. People will be stopping to Ooo and ahhh. Also its not semantics if your smart enough to look at the big picture. Few toys handed out at launch to supporters, MMO meant to go on for 10 years + and all the thousands of types of gear that will be earned in game.
Long term or short term impact, an in-game item is an in-game item. If they would stick to tee-shirts, key fobs, golf umbrellas and the like in their crowd-funding drives, then it wouldn't be an issue.
It simply amazes me how individuals will rant and rave against a specific feature, but defend it fiercely when the game they're following includes the same functionality with a different name.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
You miss the context of the conversation. Go back and read it =-) Im very happy with Pantheon going B2P + Sub and no cash shop. GW2 Cash Shop worked well for that game and IMO was a very fair setup. I do hope VR sets up a shop with RL items, selling hats, shirts, coffee mugs, posters etc.
That is less then 2 months old and it seems they consider GWs original model, I see nothing newer about it on the forum. Last I heard it was P2P But if they instead charge for they new content patches that should work fine as well. GW did earn a good penny after all.
But I agree about GW2s cashshop, I just don't want to see it in another P2P game.
Seliing RL stuff is excellent, I want a nice map on actual parchment (I pay $50 for it).
IMO when people speak out against cash shops they just mean the games where you get a leg up by paying money. Almost no one complains about selling items that dont affect game play.
So, you don't consider having the nicest costume or most interesting cosmetic pet as "a leg up". Others might. If that cosmetic is obtained from a transaction involving real cash for an in-game item, that is a cash shop, no matter how it is termed. People wish to differentiate a 'purchase' from a 'pledge reward', but if your bank account is lighter, you've paid for an e-item, no matter what you choose to call the interface that took your money. Semantics won't change that fact.
There is no semantics. The items being given out are charged based click items. With limited charges. They will not impact the game long term. If they have some cosmetic effect again no big deal if you get the game Pantheon is. Much like in the days of EQ1, showing off where you have been and what you have earned will be a big part of the game. When people see your Bard in full Blue Lambent. People will be stopping to Ooo and ahhh. Also its not semantics if your smart enough to look at the big picture. Few toys handed out at launch to supporters, MMO meant to go on for 10 years + and all the thousands of types of gear that will be earned in game.
Long term or short term impact, an in-game item is an in-game item. If they would stick to tee-shirts, key fobs, golf umbrellas and the like in their crowd-funding drives, then it wouldn't be an issue.
It simply amazes me how individuals will rant and rave against a specific feature, but defend it fiercely when the game they're following includes the same functionality with a different name.
I think you are confused. I'm not defending anything. Strangely I find myself in the same place with you and I will take the same stance as I did with EQN. I will take the Devs at their word till they say or do otherwise. You want to argue some minor perks on a pledge is a cash shop. I will grin and say sure... Its like a cash shop like Donald Trump is "good with the words" it's huge. So huge it's game breaking. It's so bad we should build a wall and not let VR ever make another game. They said no cash shop and then gave us pledge rewards. Their evil. (((eye roll)))
Cash shops fit some games but not others. I don't think they fit Pantheon. Except maybe purely cosmetic things.
Even pure cosmetics do not fit Pantheon. Pantheon, like it's predecessors, will be about earning your name and prestige in game through both skill and time devotion.
No, Wow is hardly everything included. For instance do it sell mounts and charge a rather large sum for changing your server. It is fine to charge a little for server transfers but they could at least give out 1 free every year...
And if VR needs $20 to keep stuff like that away that is fine.
right or wrong it has a cash shop and a monthly sub requirement. it has wow tokens for sale that you can sell in game for gold, that is about as bad as it gets when it comes to a cash shop.
if you just sell mounts and cosmetics okay but once you basically start selling currency? that's a full fledged cash shop.
No, Wow is hardly everything included. For instance do it sell mounts and charge a rather large sum for changing your server. It is fine to charge a little for server transfers but they could at least give out 1 free every year...
And if VR needs $20 to keep stuff like that away that is fine.
right or wrong it has a cash shop and a monthly sub requirement. it has wow tokens for sale that you can sell in game for gold, that is about as bad as it gets when it comes to a cash shop.
if you just sell mounts and cosmetics okay but once you basically start selling currency? that's a full fledged cash shop.
It has wow tokens for sale that you can sell for in game gold? Where?
Cash shops fit some games but not others. I don't think they fit Pantheon. Except maybe purely cosmetic things.
Even pure cosmetics do not fit Pantheon. Pantheon, like it's predecessors, will be about earning your name and prestige in game through both skill and time devotion.
Cash shops fit some games but not others. I don't think they fit Pantheon. Except maybe purely cosmetic things.
Even pure cosmetics do not fit Pantheon. Pantheon, like it's predecessors, will be about earning your name and prestige in game through both skill and time devotion.
Mostly, sure. But right now you can reserve your name, get a prestige title, and also get a handful of in game items by making a cash pledge. So I'm not sure they are completely hostile to this concept?
Still, I am not advocating for it.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Cash shops fit some games but not others. I don't think they fit Pantheon. Except maybe purely cosmetic things.
Even pure cosmetics do not fit Pantheon. Pantheon, like it's predecessors, will be about earning your name and prestige in game through both skill and time devotion.
Mostly, sure. But right now you can reserve your name, get a prestige title, and also get a handful of in game items by making a cash pledge. So I'm not sure they are completely hostile to this concept?
Still, I am not advocating for it.
Three things that have been a staple of pre-orders for a very long time. Heck, replace in game items with maps or other swag, and it's been a thing for decades.
Cash shops fit some games but not others. I don't think they fit Pantheon. Except maybe purely cosmetic things.
Even pure cosmetics do not fit Pantheon. Pantheon, like it's predecessors, will be about earning your name and prestige in game through both skill and time devotion.
Mostly, sure. But right now you can reserve your name, get a prestige title, and also get a handful of in game items by making a cash pledge. So I'm not sure they are completely hostile to this concept?
Still, I am not advocating for it.
Three things that have been a staple of pre-orders for a very long time. Heck, replace in game items with maps or other swag, and it's been a thing for decades.
I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. I suggested that perhaps the only space for a cash shop in Pantheon would be a cosmetic item. You responded that no, everyone must earn their "name and prestige in game through both skill and time devotion" (which I don't see as having anything at all to do with cosmetics). I pointed out that Pantheon is already proceeding in a way that is inconsistent with that, and you respond basically that it is commonly done and has been for a long time. So is that the test? Whether something is commonly done? Because if it is cash shops are pretty common.
But again, while I like cosmetic items (having already experienced a world where nothing ever matches in EQ), it is not important to me personally. I played a Pied Piper once, so I can play one again.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Cash shops fit some games but not others. I don't think they fit Pantheon. Except maybe purely cosmetic things.
Even pure cosmetics do not fit Pantheon. Pantheon, like it's predecessors, will be about earning your name and prestige in game through both skill and time devotion.
Mostly, sure. But right now you can reserve your name, get a prestige title, and also get a handful of in game items by making a cash pledge. So I'm not sure they are completely hostile to this concept?
Still, I am not advocating for it.
Three things that have been a staple of pre-orders for a very long time. Heck, replace in game items with maps or other swag, and it's been a thing for decades.
I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. I suggested that perhaps the only space for a cash shop in Pantheon would be a cosmetic item. You responded that no, everyone must earn their "name and prestige in game through both skill and time devotion" (which I don't see as having anything at all to do with cosmetics). I pointed out that Pantheon is already proceeding in a way that is inconsistent with that, and you respond basically that it is commonly done and has been for a long time. So is that the test? Whether something is commonly done? Because if it is cash shops are pretty common.
But again, while I like cosmetic items (having already experienced a world where nothing ever matches in EQ), it is not important to me personally. I played a Pied Piper once, so I can play one again.
Again, a few items handed out to pledgers on one char means nothing over the course of an MMO. Also there will be lots of cosmetic items you can earn in game, crafted, quested, dropped and bought off vendors. The volume of that will over whelm anything a few pledgers are getting. Getting your nickers in a twist over that is really reaching. If they are that big of a deal, go pledge.
No, Wow is hardly everything included. For instance do it sell mounts and charge a rather large sum for changing your server. It is fine to charge a little for server transfers but they could at least give out 1 free every year...
And if VR needs $20 to keep stuff like that away that is fine.
right or wrong it has a cash shop and a monthly sub requirement. it has wow tokens for sale that you can sell in game for gold, that is about as bad as it gets when it comes to a cash shop.
if you just sell mounts and cosmetics okay but once you basically start selling currency? that's a full fledged cash shop.
It has wow tokens for sale that you can sell for in game gold? Where?
"Getting gold has never been simpler! Just head to the in-game Shop and purchase a WoW Token for real money. Put it up for sale in the Auction House and wait for your auction to complete!"
Again, a few items handed out to pledgers on one char means nothing over the course of an MMO. Also there will be lots of cosmetic items you can earn in game, crafted, quested, dropped and bought off vendors. The volume of that will over whelm anything a few pledgers are getting. Getting your nickers in a twist over that is really reaching. If they are that big of a deal, go pledge.
My knickers are intact. But you seem to be saying that pre-game paid for cosmetics are fine, in game cosmetics are fine, but paid for cosmetics are .... what? An existential threat to the purity of gaming rewards?
That's where someone's kickers are twisted, and they are not my knickers because I have said several times I really don't care. Incidentally, I played EQ, home of the $40 premier server and its paid for benefits, but I never joined that server. So it's all academic to me.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. I suggested that perhaps the only space for a cash shop in Pantheon would be a cosmetic item. You responded that no, everyone must earn their "name and prestige in game through both skill and time devotion" (which I don't see as having anything at all to do with cosmetics). I pointed out that Pantheon is already proceeding in a way that is inconsistent with that, and you respond basically that it is commonly done and has been for a long time. So is that the test? Whether something is commonly done? Because if it is cash shops are pretty common.
But again, while I like cosmetic items (having already experienced a world where nothing ever matches in EQ), it is not important to me personally. I played a Pied Piper once, so I can play one again.
Yes, I would say precedent is "the test". It's an accepted exception that certain things come with your ordering the game, particularly when you order early. That stuff has a short-term impact on the game. Cash shops obviously have a long-term impact, so they are not one in the same.
I don't personally like it, but in a scenario where they have to sell packages for a game 3+ years prior to the game launching, some concessions have to be made. Post launch, that will become unacceptable.
I have a problem with a cashshop + monthly fees, I pay so I wont see that.
Sure, GW2s cashshop is fine in a B2P game but not in aP2P game like Pantheon. You can't both keep the cake and eat it, at least not if you want me as your customer.
Pantheon with cashshop would be like EQ2 the last year before it went F2P. As I see it if they need more funds then $15 a month and box price they should just raise the monthly fee so we get all included.
Tonight on MMO News at 11: MMOs need money to exist. We'll have more on this story as it develops. And now Brian with sports.
And how would YOU propose they raise money on a continual basis? Its a very niche MMO so that $15 a month from the thousands playing wont pay for much.
THIS is why these indie MMOs are going to fail. People want them to be made but they dont want them to make money. I mean, what, did you think that MMOs are made by the MMO fairies with pixie dust and dreams?
The game is already decided as P2P and the team say on the official forum that they can go even (with salaries and so on) with 25K players paying that fee. I would link to it but it is for backers only.
How many P2P games without itemshop is there around? 3? 4? There are actually more then a few of us willing to pay for playing. The game is focused particularly on oldschool fans and the majority of us still prefer P2P.
Besides the monthly fees I expect them to use the same funding as EQ did for many years: selling expansions. And while you might not think much of EQ the game do have earned in rather much money in the 18 years it's been around, not Wow much but no-one besides Wow ever gotten Wow much.
I can see Pantheon having at least 100K paying customers and that is 4 times what they need, not all games are actually trying for millions and millions of players, if you want something free look elsewhere.
So, according to their projections and planning they could survive off just the subscription fees from 25,000 players?
Quite frankly, that is hilarious.
Yeah, and if everything had gone according to their initial projections and planning we would probably have the game by now.
When it comes to video games and video game budgets(especially for MMOs) things can go off the rails very easily.
Just as for people you can plan for the future and budget accordingly but how many times does that actually work? Before you know it you break your glasses and need to get new ones, your son gets sick and needs to go the hospital and the brakes go out on the car. So, hows that budget looking now?
I have a problem with a cashshop + monthly fees, I pay so I wont see that.
Sure, GW2s cashshop is fine in a B2P game but not in aP2P game like Pantheon. You can't both keep the cake and eat it, at least not if you want me as your customer.
Pantheon with cashshop would be like EQ2 the last year before it went F2P. As I see it if they need more funds then $15 a month and box price they should just raise the monthly fee so we get all included.
Tonight on MMO News at 11: MMOs need money to exist. We'll have more on this story as it develops. And now Brian with sports.
And how would YOU propose they raise money on a continual basis? Its a very niche MMO so that $15 a month from the thousands playing wont pay for much.
THIS is why these indie MMOs are going to fail. People want them to be made but they dont want them to make money. I mean, what, did you think that MMOs are made by the MMO fairies with pixie dust and dreams?
The game is already decided as P2P and the team say on the official forum that they can go even (with salaries and so on) with 25K players paying that fee. I would link to it but it is for backers only.
How many P2P games without itemshop is there around? 3? 4? There are actually more then a few of us willing to pay for playing. The game is focused particularly on oldschool fans and the majority of us still prefer P2P.
Besides the monthly fees I expect them to use the same funding as EQ did for many years: selling expansions. And while you might not think much of EQ the game do have earned in rather much money in the 18 years it's been around, not Wow much but no-one besides Wow ever gotten Wow much.
I can see Pantheon having at least 100K paying customers and that is 4 times what they need, not all games are actually trying for millions and millions of players, if you want something free look elsewhere.
So, according to their projections and planning they could survive off just the subscription fees from 25,000 players?
Quite frankly, that is hilarious.
Yeah, and if everything had gone according to their initial projections and planning we would probably have the game by now.
When it comes to video games and video game budgets(especially for MMOs) things can go off the rails very easily.
Just as for people you can plan for the future and budget accordingly but how many times does that actually work? Before you know it you break your glasses and need to get new ones, your son gets sick and needs to go the hospital and the brakes go out on the car. So, hows that budget looking now?
Mismanagement. Maybe Vanguard 2.0 ... er, I mean Pantheon can rise above it, but I won't hold my breath.
I get that some people - probably most of the target audience - see cash shops of any kind (no matter how innocuous) as a first wrong step down a road that leads to gold buying, funny propeller hats and flying purple tiger mounts. And, if that happens, one may as well play WoW. The dream of an old school bastion against modern e-z mode gaming would be dead. I am not unsympathetic to this concern.
At the same time, the game is going to need money if there is going to be a game that lasts for a meaningful period of time. I want Pantheon to last. So I am not as quick to try to paint these guys into a corner on the promises they make, lest that prove later to be a "read my lips, no new taxes" type commitment that hugely backfires. In my opinion, if you care about the game, and if you care about the people making it, you want them to have the flexibility to adjust their revenue model to keep the game healthy (so long as it doesn't vitiate the core principles).
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
If they have to resort to selling items to keep the game afloat, it's already too late. Selling a generic title and a couple of items to people who pledge is one thing. When you cannot create the necessary content that will keep players playing and earning their items, there's a problem that a cash shop will not rectify. This is not a mainstream game, with their funding and marketing to funnel people into your cash shops to keep your generic game afloat.
If they have to resort to selling items to keep the game afloat, it's already too late. Selling a generic title and a couple of items to people who pledge is one thing. When you cannot create the necessary content that will keep players playing and earning their items, there's a problem that a cash shop will not rectify. This is not a mainstream game, with their funding and marketing to funnel people into your cash shops to keep your generic game afloat.
This is an area I think GW2 failed. They noticed people used the cash shop more when they played at least once every 2 weeks. So they made all their content have a 2 week shelf life. To be able to finish all content in a patch in 2 weeks meant it had to be watered down. Often feeling shallow and easy. It drove off gamers and GW2 is a shell of what it used to be.
IMO thinking back to my Epic weapon quest in EQ1. I lost myself in that and SoE had me as a customer because of it. I think an MMO thats not designed for a cash shop will change how we play. I think we have forgotten what its like to log in and all of the game is there to consume with no other micro pay walls.
IMO thinking back to my Epic weapon quest in EQ1. I lost myself in that and SoE had me as a customer because of it.
No one is proposing that people be able to buy an epic weapon, or anything remotely like that.
You miss the point of my post. I'm saying games are designed around their cash shops on so many levels. Not planning to have a cash shop changes Pantheon in so many ways.
Pantheon's original fanbase is what will keep this game operating. The flavor of the month crowd will not sustain a game outside of the mainstream without a massive marketing budget.
I think a shop that sells anything more than copies of the game, xfers, char slots etc, would be a fatal mistake for Pantheon in the long run.
I think Pantheon should have a fan store that sells things like shirts, hats, mugs, key chains, figurines and the like.
I would buy into that.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
Comments
It simply amazes me how individuals will rant and rave against a specific feature, but defend it fiercely when the game they're following includes the same functionality with a different name.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Sorry, I missed a bit in the whole conversation there and I certainly know why you didn't quote the whole thing... And I admit I been away from the forum the last 2 months. Still:
We are considering either using the traditional subscription based model or a model where the player buys the game and then has the option of purchasing mini-expansions or ‘modules’ after launch. Either way, the game’s world will continue to expand, more content will be added, as well as new features and mechanics. Visionary Realms strongly believes that the revenue model of an MMO needs to match the game’s target audience. Because of this, Pantheon will not be ‘freemium’ or have ‘cash shops’ -- building your character and advancing in-game will be based on time invested and tactics used, not on how much money the player has in real life.
That is less then 2 months old and it seems they consider GWs original model, I see nothing newer about it on the forum. Last I heard it was P2P But if they instead charge for they new content patches that should work fine as well. GW did earn a good penny after all.
But I agree about GW2s cashshop, I just don't want to see it in another P2P game.
Seliing RL stuff is excellent, I want a nice map on actual parchment (I pay $50 for it).
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I think you are confused. I'm not defending anything. Strangely I find myself in the same place with you and I will take the same stance as I did with EQN. I will take the Devs at their word till they say or do otherwise. You want to argue some minor perks on a pledge is a cash shop. I will grin and say sure... Its like a cash shop like Donald Trump is "good with the words" it's huge. So huge it's game breaking. It's so bad we should build a wall and not let VR ever make another game. They said no cash shop and then gave us pledge rewards. Their evil. (((eye roll)))
Even pure cosmetics do not fit Pantheon. Pantheon, like it's predecessors, will be about earning your name and prestige in game through both skill and time devotion.
right or wrong it has a cash shop and a monthly sub requirement. it has wow tokens for sale that you can sell in game for gold, that is about as bad as it gets when it comes to a cash shop.
if you just sell mounts and cosmetics okay but once you basically start selling currency? that's a full fledged cash shop.
It has wow tokens for sale that you can sell for in game gold? Where?
totally agree with this.
Mostly, sure. But right now you can reserve your name, get a prestige title, and also get a handful of in game items by making a cash pledge. So I'm not sure they are completely hostile to this concept?
Still, I am not advocating for it.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Three things that have been a staple of pre-orders for a very long time. Heck, replace in game items with maps or other swag, and it's been a thing for decades.
I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. I suggested that perhaps the only space for a cash shop in Pantheon would be a cosmetic item. You responded that no, everyone must earn their "name and prestige in game through both skill and time devotion" (which I don't see as having anything at all to do with cosmetics). I pointed out that Pantheon is already proceeding in a way that is inconsistent with that, and you respond basically that it is commonly done and has been for a long time. So is that the test? Whether something is commonly done? Because if it is cash shops are pretty common.
But again, while I like cosmetic items (having already experienced a world where nothing ever matches in EQ), it is not important to me personally. I played a Pied Piper once, so I can play one again.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Again, a few items handed out to pledgers on one char means nothing over the course of an MMO. Also there will be lots of cosmetic items you can earn in game, crafted, quested, dropped and bought off vendors. The volume of that will over whelm anything a few pledgers are getting. Getting your nickers in a twist over that is really reaching. If they are that big of a deal, go pledge.
"Getting gold has never been simpler! Just head to the in-game Shop and purchase a WoW Token for real money. Put it up for sale in the Auction House and wait for your auction to complete!"
https://us.battle.net/shop/en/product/world-of-warcraft-token
My knickers are intact. But you seem to be saying that pre-game paid for cosmetics are fine, in game cosmetics are fine, but paid for cosmetics are .... what? An existential threat to the purity of gaming rewards?
That's where someone's kickers are twisted, and they are not my knickers because I have said several times I really don't care. Incidentally, I played EQ, home of the $40 premier server and its paid for benefits, but I never joined that server. So it's all academic to me.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Yes, I would say precedent is "the test". It's an accepted exception that certain things come with your ordering the game, particularly when you order early. That stuff has a short-term impact on the game. Cash shops obviously have a long-term impact, so they are not one in the same.
I don't personally like it, but in a scenario where they have to sell packages for a game 3+ years prior to the game launching, some concessions have to be made. Post launch, that will become unacceptable.
http://www.ign.com/wikis/fallout-4/Pre-Order_Bonuses
So, according to their projections and planning they could survive off just the subscription fees from 25,000 players?
Quite frankly, that is hilarious.
Yeah, and if everything had gone according to their initial projections and planning we would probably have the game by now.
When it comes to video games and video game budgets(especially for MMOs) things can go off the rails very easily.
Just as for people you can plan for the future and budget accordingly but how many times does that actually work? Before you know it you break your glasses and need to get new ones, your son gets sick and needs to go the hospital and the brakes go out on the car. So, hows that budget looking now?
Mismanagement. Maybe Vanguard 2.0 ... er, I mean Pantheon can rise above it, but I won't hold my breath.
~~ postlarval ~~
At the same time, the game is going to need money if there is going to be a game that lasts for a meaningful period of time. I want Pantheon to last. So I am not as quick to try to paint these guys into a corner on the promises they make, lest that prove later to be a "read my lips, no new taxes" type commitment that hugely backfires. In my opinion, if you care about the game, and if you care about the people making it, you want them to have the flexibility to adjust their revenue model to keep the game healthy (so long as it doesn't vitiate the core principles).
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
This is an area I think GW2 failed. They noticed people used the cash shop more when they played at least once every 2 weeks. So they made all their content have a 2 week shelf life. To be able to finish all content in a patch in 2 weeks meant it had to be watered down. Often feeling shallow and easy. It drove off gamers and GW2 is a shell of what it used to be.
IMO thinking back to my Epic weapon quest in EQ1. I lost myself in that and SoE had me as a customer because of it. I think an MMO thats not designed for a cash shop will change how we play. I think we have forgotten what its like to log in and all of the game is there to consume with no other micro pay walls.
No one is proposing that people be able to buy an epic weapon, or anything remotely like that.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
You miss the point of my post. I'm saying games are designed around their cash shops on so many levels. Not planning to have a cash shop changes Pantheon in so many ways.
I would buy into that.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin